Category racing

Emily Thurston

2001-02-28

Yes, A-B-C racing might make a lot of sense-- split people according to ability

rather than according to demographic variables that may not be any indication of

speed, e.g., age and sex.





As a woman, I often feel pretty torn between the woman's race, which is usually

too small & too broad a range of abilities to form a real pack, but which will

be smaller if I don't race; and racing one of the men's categories, where I will

have a pack.





We run sprint meets A-B-C, and it seems to me this rather works.





Some kind of broad category system might work whether or not one wanted to run

it handicap style.



mmur-@teleport.com

2001-02-26

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This format is Joe mentions is called a handicap race. It is something that

we should use more often, particularly for fields that have marginal size

and a disparity of ability, like Women and Juniors. It is a formula that

does NOT work well for large field sizes in open road races in the US since

road use authorities get fairly panicky at the prospect of 2-300 rider

fields.



In Oregon for road categories there are currently the following numbers:



Cat 1    38

Cat 2    116

Cat 3    344

Cat 4    375

Cat 5    339



This is irrespective of gender or age. Having Masters, Women or Junior

races diminishes the market size for the strictly category delimitated

races. In general, a race organizer can expect that about 10% of the

available market will show up for a given race. Field size of 20 is about

minimum for a good event and 100 is about maximum. Looking at the above

numbers shows why last years Cat 1/2 events were small, 10% of 154 is too

small of a field. If the Cat 3 riders are spread between Cat 1/2/3 and

3/4/5 then the 1/2/3 field size is going to be about 30 and the 3/4/5 race

will be about 80. 80 is a bit large for a beginning field and if the race

draws numbers more than average then it could well be over a reasonable

filed limit. If we separate out the Cat then we can expect the following

field sizes:



Cat 1/2/3 ~30

Cat 3/4 ~50

Cat 5 ~30



Or alternatively if we spread both the cat 3 and 4 riders out:



Cat 1/2/3 ~30

Cat 3/4 ~35

Cat 4/5 ~50



This seems about right to me. Really there are not 5 ability categories in

Oregon. The numbers are big enough to support about 3. Either we change

the categorization system to reflect this (not such a good idea since it

puts Oregon in even more conflict with the rest of the country) or we

structure the races offered to fit the numbers. Offering the opportunity

for the Cat 3 and /or 4 riders to pick a slower or faster field makes sense

to me.



If any race organizers want to have access to these numbers when deciding

what fields to offer they should feel free to contact ob-@teleport.com.

All this stuff is data based and fairly accessible. We have data from last

year on rider numbers at all the events. This year we are attempting to

collect rider numbers for events by category.



Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Joe & Siggi Gierga [mailto:sig-@oregoncoast.com]

Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 11:26 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Category racing





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When I raced in Europe many moons ago, we had three categories, A, B & C.

Category C started first, minutes later category B and last category A.

Depending on the difficulty and lengths of the race, they had some formula

that gave each category rider the same chance to win.



Cat A caught up with cat B, often, B has caught up with C already except

for the guys that were really trying to go for it.

It made it a perfect and simple race, considering the field sizes which

often could be 3-400 at the longer races. Simple formula. First guy wins!

Joe Gierga

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">

<HTML><HEAD>

<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =

charset=3Diso-8859-1">

<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>

<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>This=20

format is Joe mentions is called a handicap race.  It is something =

that we=20

should use more often, particularly for fields that have marginal size =

and a=20

disparity of ability, like Women and Juniors.  It is a formula that =

does=20

NOT work well for large field sizes in open road races in the US since =

road use=20

authorities get fairly panicky at the prospect of 2-300 rider=20

fields.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =



size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>In=20

Oregon for road categories there are currently the following=20

numbers:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =



size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cat=20

1    38</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cat=20

2    116</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cat=20

3    344</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cat=20

4    375</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cat=20

5    339</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =



size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>This=20

is irrespective of gender or age.  Having Masters, Women or Junior=20

races diminishes the market size for the strictly category =

delimitated=20

races.  In general, a race organizer can expect that about 10% of =

the=20

available market will show up for a given race.  Field size of 20 =

is about=20

minimum for a good event and 100 is about maximum.  Looking at the =

above=20

numbers shows why last years Cat 1/2 events were small, 10% of 154 is =

too small=20

of a field.  If the Cat 3 riders are spread between Cat 1/2/3 and =

3/4/5=20

then the 1/2/3 field size is going to be about 30 and the 3/4/5 race =

will be=20

about 80. 80 is a bit large for a beginning field and if the race draws =

numbers=20

more than average then it could well be over a reasonable filed =

limit.  If=20

we separate out the Cat then we can expect the following field=20

sizes:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =



size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cat=20

1/2/3 ~30</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cat=20

3/4 ~50</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cat 5=20

~30</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =



size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Or=20

alternatively if we spread both the cat 3 and 4 riders =

out:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =



size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cat=20

1/2/3 ~30</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cat=20

3/4 ~35</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cat=20

4/5 ~50</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =



size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>This=20

seems about right to me.  Really there are not 5 ability categories =

in=20

Oregon.  The numbers are big enough to support about 3.  =

Either we=20

change the categorization system to reflect this (not such a good idea =

since it=20

puts Oregon in even more conflict with the rest of the country) or we =

structure=20

the races offered to fit the numbers.  Offering the opportunity for =

the Cat=20

3 and /or 4 riders to pick a slower or faster field makes sense to=20

me.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =



size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>If any=20

race organizers want to have access to these numbers when deciding what =

fields=20

to offer they should feel free to contact <A=20

href=3D"mailto:ob-@teleport.com">ob-@teleport.com</A>.  All this =

stuff is=20

data based and fairly accessible.  We have data from last year on =

rider=20

numbers at all the events.  This year we are attempting to collect =

rider=20

numbers for events by category.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D890221919-26022001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =



size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Mike Murray </FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =

face=3DTahoma=20

size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Joe & Siggi =

Gierga=20

[mailto:sig-@oregoncoast.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 24, =

2001=20

11:26 AM<BR><B>To:</B> ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [OBRA Chat] =

Category=20

=

racing<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><PRE>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Exclusive: =BD Price Omaha Steaks Top Sirloins- Only $22!

Order today and we’ll add 6 Burgers FREE when you checkout.

100% guaranteed to thrill; order today! Expires 3/31/01.

<A =

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lick.topica.com/aaabu5aVxiDpaVzo9Ib/OmahaSteaks</A>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</PRE>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>When I raced in Europe many moons =

ago, we had=20

three categories, A, B & C. Category C started first, minutes=20

later category B and last category A.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Depending on the difficulty and =

lengths of the=20

race, they had some formula that gave each category rider the same =

chance to=20

win.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cat A caught up with cat B, often, B =

has caught=20

up with C already except for the guys that were really trying to go=20

for it.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It made it a perfect and simple race, =

considering=20

the field sizes which often could be 3-400 at the longer races. Simple =



formula. First guy wins! Joe =

Gierga</FONT> </DIV><PRE>/=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-Click Here & Support =

Our Sponsor-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D\

DEBT REDUCTION HELP! Did you know you can get INSTANT assistance=20

lowering your interest charges and debt? If you have $5000 or=20

more in credit card debt, click here to learn more about this=20

exceptional offer.

<A =

href=3D"http://click.topica.com/aaabroaVxiDpaVzo9Id/edebtconsolidation">h=

ttp://click.topica.com/aaabroaVxiDpaVzo9Id/edebtconsolidation</A>

\=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=

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DaviD AukeR

2001-02-24

. . . . . . . . .

.. .    . . . . . .



Joe said:

 Cat A caught up with cat B, often, B has caught up with C already except

for the guys that were really trying to go for?it.

It made it a perfect and simple race, considering the field sizes which

often could be 3-400 at the longer races.

Simple formula. First guy wins! Joe Gierga?



That sounds like a gas! This type format would sure make it easier for

promoters?!

Riding in large fields is the choreographic rush that makes road racing

so different than about any other sport...so cool rollin' an' pushin'

the body on two wheels in tight quarters.   

===========

And, Re:Giving cat 3's a choice is it bad????

David Johnson said:

 I think giving Cat.3's a choice in RR's between 1,2,3 or 3,4,5 is an

excellent choice, especially in the early season races. When I was a 3 I

always looked forward to racing in the combined 1,2,3 races since the

pace was a bit faster and the size of the group much bigger.



Great attitude! I would think that one should logically want to ride

"up" a category, rather than want to ride "down" with less experienced

riders. 3's should be looking to get better (and move up to being a 2,

even).



David

. . . . . . . . .

.. .    . . . . . .



Joe & Siggi Gierga

2001-02-24

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When I raced in Europe many moons ago, we had three categories, A, B & =

C. Category C started first, minutes later category B and last category =

A.

Depending on the difficulty and lengths of the race, they had some =

formula that gave each category rider the same chance to win.



Cat A caught up with cat B, often, B has caught up with C already except =

for the guys that were really trying to go for it.

It made it a perfect and simple race, considering the field sizes which =

often could be 3-400 at the longer races. Simple formula. First guy =

wins! Joe Gierga=20



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<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>When I raced in Europe many moons ago, =

we had three=20

categories, A, B & C. Category C started first, minutes =

later category=20

B and last category A.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Depending on the difficulty and lengths =

of the=20

race, they had some formula that gave each category rider the same =

chance to=20

win.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cat A caught up with cat B, often, B =

has caught up=20

with C already except for the guys that were really trying to go=20

for it.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It made it a perfect and simple race, =

considering=20

the field sizes which often could be 3-400 at the longer races. Simple =

formula.=20

First guy wins! Joe Gierga</FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>



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