Car V race rules?

mmur-@teleport.com

2001-03-02

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I think many race organizers, and I suspect you are one of them, feel that

there will be less participation if there are fewer or no prizes. The

evidence shows otherwise. If you look at race attendance numbers there is

no correlation between them and the size of the prize list. In addition, if

you look at most other sports you will see that the vast majority of

competitors are never competing for anything of any monetary value. How

many softball players expect that they will get a cash prize for winning a

game? If we took the organizational energy that we currently put into

developing prize lists into publicizing events and organizing events so that

they are more attractive to the potential customer I think we would see a

much bigger return in participation.



I fully agree with the idea of keeping race entry fees as low as possible

however there are more costs then just insurance and I think it is

reasonable to expect that even in Cat 5 the entry fee will cover most of

them.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Pete Beall [mailto:peteb-@home.com]

Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 23:40 PM

To: mmur-@teleport.com; OBRA Remailer

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?





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Mike,



       I never did go along with the concept of Cat V, and the Twin Rivers

Classic spanned the inception of Cat V. Limiting prizes based on category

other than cat V, I think would really reduce motivation [Cat 4/5 races to

medals, ribbons, etc. (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 races limited

to merchandise and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive cash].



       If our goal is to get new riders into the sport, how about this: Cat

V riders race for payment of insurance fees and aren?t eligible for prizes

of commercial value. Promoters? lose the gain from the entry fee, but aren?t

out anything in prizes. When the rider moves up, they will then be paying

their portion of officials, signs, etc. This is the only way I can conceive

of Cat V being a benefit, and I would certainly leave the final decision up

to the promoter.



http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html



----- Original Message -----

From: <mmur-@teleport.com>

To: "OBRA Remailer" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:08 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?





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> ============================================================

>

> OBRA does not have a similar rule limiting prizes for Cat 5. I

personally

> would be in favor of a rule that limited Cat 4/5 races to medals,

ribbons,

> etc. (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 races limited to

merchandise

> and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive cash. The race designation would be

by

> the fastest category in the race, e.g. riders in a Cat 2/3 could win

cash.

> What does everyone else think?

>

> Mike Murray

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Pete Beall [mailto:peteb-@home.com]

> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 16:18 PM

> To: ob-@topica.com

> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?

>

>

>

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<DIV><SPAN class=3D670405107-02032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>I=20

think many race organizers, and I suspect you are one of them, feel that =

there=20

will be less participation if there are fewer or no prizes.  The =

evidence=20

shows otherwise.  If you look at race attendance numbers there is =

no=20

correlation between them and the size of the prize list.  In =

addition, if=20

you look at most other sports you will see that the vast majority of =

competitors=20

are never competing for anything of any monetary value.  How many =

softball=20

players expect that they will get a cash prize for winning a game? If we =

took=20

the organizational energy that we currently put into =

developing prize lists=20

into publicizing events and organizing events so that they are more =

attractive=20

to the potential customer I think we would see a much bigger return in=20

participation.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D670405107-02032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =



size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=3D670405107-02032001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>I=20

fully agree with the idea of keeping race entry fees as low as possible =

however=20

there are more costs then just insurance and I think it is reasonable to =

expect=20

that even in Cat 5 the entry fee will cover most of =

them.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<P><FONT size=3D2>Mike Murray </FONT></P>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =

face=3DTahoma=20

size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Pete Beall=20

[mailto:peteb-@home.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 27, 2001 =

23:40=20

PM<BR><B>To:</B> mmur-@teleport.com; OBRA =

Remailer<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:=20

[OBRA Chat] Car V race =

rules?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><PRE>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Exclusive: =BD Price Omaha Steaks Top Sirloins- Only $22!

Order today and we’ll add 6 Burgers FREE when you checkout.

100% guaranteed to thrill; order today! Expires 3/31/01.

<A =

href=3D"http://click.topica.com/aaabvHaVxiDpaVzo9Ib/OmahaSteaks">http://c=

lick.topica.com/aaabvHaVxiDpaVzo9Ib/OmahaSteaks</A>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</PRE>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =

color=3D#0000ff>Mike,</FONT></DIV><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>

<DIV><BR>     I never did go along with the =

concept of Cat=20

V, and the Twin Rivers Classic spanned the inception of Cat V. =

Limiting prizes=20

based on category other than cat V, I think would really reduce =

motivation=20

[Cat 4/5 races to medals, ribbons, etc. (items of minimal economic =

value), Cat=20

3 races limited to merchandise and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive =

cash].</DIV>

<DIV><BR>     If our goal is to get new riders =

into the=20

sport, how about this: Cat V riders race for payment of insurance fees =

and=20

aren’t eligible for prizes of commercial value. Promoters’ =

lose the gain from=20

the entry fee, but aren’t out anything in prizes. When the rider =

moves up,=20

they will then be paying their portion of officials, signs, etc. This =

is the=20

only way I can conceive of Cat V being a benefit, and I would =

certainly leave=20

the final decision up to the promoter.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff></FONT><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><A =

href=3D"http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html"><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20

=

color=3D#0000ff>http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html</FONT><=

/A></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>----- Original =

Message -----=20

</FONT>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>From: <</FONT><A=20

href=3D"mailto:mmur-@teleport.com"><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS">mmur-@teleport.com</FONT></A><FONT =

face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20

color=3D#0000ff>></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>To: "OBRA Remailer"=20

<</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:ob-@topica.com"><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS">ob-@topica.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Comic =

Sans MS"=20

color=3D#0000ff>></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>Sent: Tuesday, =

February 27, 2001=20

10:08 PM</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>Subject: RE: [OBRA =

Chat] Car V=20

race rules?</FONT></DIV></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><BR><FONT=20

color=3D#0000ff></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20

color=3D#0000ff>>=20

=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>> Turn your=20

desktop into a stage with eWalla animated messages!<BR>> Deliver =

your=20

messages via both voice and text! Animated eWallas<BR>> will =

deliver right=20

to any PC desktop. eWalla is new, fun and free!<BR>> </FONT><A=20

href=3D"http://click.topica.com/aaabvKaVxiDpaVBVpua/eWalla"><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans =

MS">http://click.topica.com/aaabvKaVxiDpaVBVpua/eWalla</FONT></A><BR><FON=

T=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>>=20

=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>> <BR>>=20

OBRA does not have a similar rule limiting prizes for Cat 5.  I=20

personally<BR>> would be in favor of a rule that limited Cat 4/5 =

races to=20

medals, ribbons,<BR>> etc. (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 =

races=20

limited to merchandise<BR>> and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive =

cash. =20

The race designation would be by<BR>> the fastest category in the =

race,=20

e.g. riders in a Cat 2/3 could win cash.<BR>> What does everyone =

else=20

think?<BR>> <BR>> Mike Murray<BR>> <BR>> -----Original=20

Message-----<BR>> From: Pete Beall =

[mailto:peteb-@home.com]<BR>>=20

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 16:18 PM<BR>> To: </FONT><A=20

href=3D"mailto:ob-@topica.com"><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS">ob-@topica.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT =

face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20

color=3D#0000ff>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?<BR>> =

<BR>>=20

<BR>> </FONT><PRE>--- Sponsor's Message =

--------------------------------------

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.topica.com/aaaa4qaVxiDpaVzo9Id/TopDogs</A>

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respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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Russ Humberston, Jr.

2001-03-01

Let Freedom Rein! If the promoters want to throw cash to 4/5, women 65+,

spectators, let 'em have at it.



-----Original Message-----

From: mmur-@teleport.com [mailto:mmur-@teleport.com]

Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:09 PM

To: OBRA Remailer

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?





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Turn your desktop into a stage with eWalla animated messages!

Deliver your messages via both voice and text! Animated eWallas

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OBRA does not have a similar rule limiting prizes for Cat 5. I personally

would be in favor of a rule that limited Cat 4/5 races to medals, ribbons,

etc. (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 races limited to merchandise

and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive cash. The race designation would be by

the fastest category in the race, e.g. riders in a Cat 2/3 could win cash.

What does everyone else think?



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Pete Beall [mailto:peteb-@home.com]

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 16:18 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?





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One reason for having a combined IV/V field in a USCF race is rule 1F5(a)

that prohibits any prize of commercial value being awarded to a cat V race.

What's the OBRA take on this rule?



Pete Beall



http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html



----- Original Message -----

From: <mmur-@teleport.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:25 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Giving cat 3's a choice ...





 As to the idea making life for new riders (Cat 5) easier, I am in full

agreement. Last year when I asked people about what kept them from going

to

 more events I received several comments from people that went to their

first

 race, generally a 4/5 field, and got blown out the back in short order.

They then concluded that they were not fit enough to be bike racers and

didn't come back. Usually I get blown out fairly quickly the first few

races of the year too but I have been doing this long enough to know that

eventually I will be going OK later in the season. Beginning riders do

not

 have the benefit of that experience. I think if we want the sport to grow

it is essential that organizers try to offer some field that will be

accessible to the beginning racer. Let's have some more Cat 5 only and

Cat

 4 women races.



Mike Murray





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Demian Godon

2001-02-28

I agree that prizes/money aren't really a necessity for the lower

classes. However, I kind of agree with a couple other comments in that

I'm not sure why they should be explicitly restricted. As was stated

this seems like it should be at the discretion of the promoter; maybe

their particular race is able to effectively use prizes/money to make the

race more successful. As a racer, I'm not going to complain about

getting prizes or money. But, in general, if I were a promoter I would

be pretty convinced by your arguments that I wouldn't need to offer

much/anything to have a successful race. In fact, I might even be more

successful without. Again, though, why explicitly restrict?



I think it would be good to offer some kind of recognition for series

races (such as PIR, OBRA pts, Mt Tabor, etc.) even for the lower cats. I

don't think it has to be anything big, but I think it's nice to reward

that commitment and consistency (we want people coming back). Something

like a trophy or jersey maybe. Although just finishing many races is

accomplishment enough, appropriate prizes can re-inforce that sense of

accomplishment when you do well; it's the recognition more than getting

compensated.



-Demian



On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 22:08:49 -0800 mmur-@teleport.com writes:

 ============================================================

Turn your desktop into a stage with eWalla animated messages!

Deliver your messages via both voice and text! Animated eWallas

will deliver right to any PC desktop. eWalla is new, fun and free!

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OBRA does not have a similar rule limiting prizes for Cat 5. I

personally

would be in favor of a rule that limited Cat 4/5 races to medals,

ribbons,

etc. (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 races limited to

merchandise

and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive cash. The race designation would

be by

the fastest category in the race, e.g. riders in a Cat 2/3 could win

cash.

What does everyone else think?



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Pete Beall [mailto:peteb-@home.com]

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 16:18 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?





============================================================

Take the guesswork out of genealogy. Go to Ancestry.com

today and sign up for your free 14-day trial. Use the site

risk free and enjoy the No. 1 Source for Family History Online.

http://click.topica.com/aaabudaVxiDpaVzo9Ia/MyFamily

============================================================



One reason for having a combined IV/V field in a USCF race is rule

1F5(a)

that prohibits any prize of commercial value being awarded to a cat

V race.

What's the OBRA take on this rule?



Pete Beall



http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html



----- Original Message -----

From: <mmur-@teleport.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:25 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Giving cat 3's a choice ...





 As to the idea making life for new riders (Cat 5) easier, I am in

full

 agreement. Last year when I asked people about what kept them

from going

to

 more events I received several comments from people that went to

their

first

 race, generally a 4/5 field, and got blown out the back in short

order.

 They then concluded that they were not fit enough to be bike

racers and

 didn't come back. Usually I get blown out fairly quickly the

first few

 races of the year too but I have been doing this long enough to

know that

 eventually I will be going OK later in the season. Beginning

riders do

not

 have the benefit of that experience. I think if we want the sport

to grow

 it is essential that organizers try to offer some field that will

be

 accessible to the beginning racer. Let's have some more Cat 5

only and

Cat

 4 women races.



Mike Murray





============================================================

Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access

to the No. 1 Source for Family History Online. Search over 1

Billion names and trace your family tree today. Click here:

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John Bravard

2001-02-28

I'm in favor of this as long as it doesn't somehow make it more difficult

for the race promoters.



John Bravard



On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 mmur-@teleport.com wrote:



 OBRA does not have a similar rule limiting prizes for Cat 5. I personally

would be in favor of a rule that limited Cat 4/5 races to medals, ribbons,

etc. (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 races limited to merchandise

and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive cash. The race designation would be by

the fastest category in the race, e.g. riders in a Cat 2/3 could win cash.

What does everyone else think?



Mike Murray



Mark Greenwood

2001-02-28

Mike,



As one of the Cat 4s, I personally don't care at all about the nature of

the prizes. I'm out there to race.



I did like the idea last year of some one-time prizes predicated on

attendance for groups like juniors and women. It seemed like a good

motivation for the regulars to convince their potentially-interested

friends to come out and try racing.



Of course, I understand the prize situation is different for the 1s and

2s. I just think (as someone else said, I believe) that the majority of

us 3/4/5s are out there for fun, and just want to see what we're capable

of doing.



My 2 cents,

Mark Greenwood



mmur-@teleport.com wrote:

 OBRA does not have a similar rule limiting prizes for Cat 5. I

personally

would be in favor of a rule that limited Cat 4/5 races to medals,

ribbons,

etc. (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 races limited to

merchandise

and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive cash. The race designation would be

by

the fastest category in the race, e.g. riders in a Cat 2/3 could win

cash.

What does everyone else think?



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Pete Beall [mailto:peteb-@home.com]

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 16:18 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?





============================================================

Take the guesswork out of genealogy. Go to Ancestry.com

today and sign up for your free 14-day trial. Use the site

risk free and enjoy the No. 1 Source for Family History Online.

http://click.topica.com/aaabudaVxiDpaVzo9Ia/MyFamily

============================================================



One reason for having a combined IV/V field in a USCF race is rule

1F5(a)

that prohibits any prize of commercial value being awarded to a cat V

race.

What's the OBRA take on this rule?



Pete Beall



http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html



----- Original Message -----

From: <mmur-@teleport.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:25 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Giving cat 3's a choice ...





 As to the idea making life for new riders (Cat 5) easier, I am in full

agreement. Last year when I asked people about what kept them from

going

to

 more events I received several comments from people that went to their

first

 race, generally a 4/5 field, and got blown out the back in short order.

They then concluded that they were not fit enough to be bike racers and

didn't come back. Usually I get blown out fairly quickly the first few

races of the year too but I have been doing this long enough to know

that

eventually I will be going OK later in the season. Beginning riders do

not

 have the benefit of that experience. I think if we want the sport to

grow

it is essential that organizers try to offer some field that will be

accessible to the beginning racer. Let's have some more Cat 5 only and

Cat

 4 women races.



Mike Murray





============================================================

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to the No. 1 Source for Family History Online. Search over 1

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============================================================



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Pete Beall

2001-02-27

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.



------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0A116.2D2C3C00

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



Mike,



     I never did go along with the concept of Cat V, and the Twin Rivers =

Classic spanned the inception of Cat V. Limiting prizes based on =

category other than cat V, I think would really reduce motivation [Cat =

4/5 races to medals, ribbons, etc. (items of minimal economic value), =

Cat 3 races limited to merchandise and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive =

cash].

=20

     If our goal is to get new riders into the sport, how about this: =

Cat V riders race for payment of insurance fees and aren't eligible for =

prizes of commercial value. Promoters' lose the gain from the entry fee, =

but aren't out anything in prizes. When the rider moves up, they will =

then be paying their portion of officials, signs, etc. This is the only =

way I can conceive of Cat V being a benefit, and I would certainly leave =

the final decision up to the promoter.



http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html



----- Original Message -----=20

From: <mmur-@teleport.com>

To: "OBRA Remailer" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:08 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?





 =

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 Turn your desktop into a stage with eWalla animated messages!

Deliver your messages via both voice and text! Animated eWallas

will deliver right to any PC desktop. eWalla is new, fun and free!

http://click.topica.com/aaabvKaVxiDpaVBVpua/eWalla

=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 =20

OBRA does not have a similar rule limiting prizes for Cat 5. I =

personally

 would be in favor of a rule that limited Cat 4/5 races to medals, =

ribbons,

 etc. (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 races limited to =

merchandise

 and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive cash. The race designation would be =

by

 the fastest category in the race, e.g. riders in a Cat 2/3 could win =

cash.

 What does everyone else think?

=20

Mike Murray

=20

-----Original Message-----

From: Pete Beall [mailto:peteb-@home.com]

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 16:18 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?

=20

=20

=20



------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0A116.2D2C3C00

Content-Type: text/html;

charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">

<HTML><HEAD>

<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =

charset=3Diso-8859-1">

<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>

<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =

color=3D#0000ff>Mike,</FONT></DIV><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>

<DIV><BR>     I never did go along with the concept =

of Cat=20

V, and the Twin Rivers Classic spanned the inception of Cat V. Limiting =

prizes=20

based on category other than cat V, I think would really reduce =

motivation [Cat=20

4/5 races to medals, ribbons, etc. (items of minimal economic value), =

Cat 3=20

races limited to merchandise and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive =

cash].</DIV>

<DIV> <BR>     If our goal is to get new riders =

into=20

the sport, how about this: Cat V riders race for payment of insurance =

fees and=20

aren’t eligible for prizes of commercial value. Promoters’ =

lose the gain from=20

the entry fee, but aren’t out anything in prizes. When the rider =

moves up, they=20

will then be paying their portion of officials, signs, etc. This is the =

only way=20

I can conceive of Cat V being a benefit, and I would certainly leave the =

final=20

decision up to the promoter.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff></FONT><FONT =

face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20

color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html"><FONT =



face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20

color=3D#0000ff>http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html</FONT><=

/A></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>----- Original Message =

-----=20

</FONT>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>From: <</FONT><A=20

href=3D"mailto:mmur-@teleport.com"><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS">mmur-@teleport.com</FONT></A><FONT =

face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20

color=3D#0000ff>></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>To: "OBRA Remailer" =

<</FONT><A=20

href=3D"mailto:ob-@topica.com"><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS">ob-@topica.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Comic =

Sans MS"=20

color=3D#0000ff>></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>Sent: Tuesday, =

February 27, 2001=20

10:08 PM</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>Subject: RE: [OBRA =

Chat] Car V=20

race rules?</FONT></DIV></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><BR><FONT=20

color=3D#0000ff></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =

color=3D#0000ff>>=20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>> Turn your=20

desktop into a stage with eWalla animated messages!<BR>> Deliver your =



messages via both voice and text! Animated eWallas<BR>> will deliver =

right to=20

any PC desktop. eWalla is new, fun and free!<BR>> </FONT><A=20

href=3D"http://click.topica.com/aaabvKaVxiDpaVBVpua/eWalla"><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans =

MS">http://click.topica.com/aaabvKaVxiDpaVBVpua/eWalla</FONT></A><BR><FON=

T=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000ff>>=20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>> <BR>>=20

OBRA does not have a similar rule limiting prizes for Cat 5.  I=20

personally<BR>> would be in favor of a rule that limited Cat 4/5 =

races to=20

medals, ribbons,<BR>> etc. (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 =

races=20

limited to merchandise<BR>> and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive =

cash.  The=20

race designation would be by<BR>> the fastest category in the race, =

e.g.=20

riders in a Cat 2/3 could win cash.<BR>> What does everyone else=20

think?<BR>> <BR>> Mike Murray<BR>> <BR>> -----Original=20

Message-----<BR>> From: Pete Beall =

[mailto:peteb-@home.com]<BR>> Sent:=20

Monday, February 26, 2001 16:18 PM<BR>> To: </FONT><A=20

href=3D"mailto:ob-@topica.com"><FONT=20

face=3D"Comic Sans MS">ob-@topica.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3D"Comic =

Sans MS"=20

color=3D#0000ff>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?<BR>> =

<BR>>=20

<BR>> </FONT></BODY></HTML>



------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0A116.2D2C3C00--



mmur-@teleport.com

2001-02-27

OBRA does not have a similar rule limiting prizes for Cat 5. I personally

would be in favor of a rule that limited Cat 4/5 races to medals, ribbons,

etc. (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 races limited to merchandise

and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive cash. The race designation would be by

the fastest category in the race, e.g. riders in a Cat 2/3 could win cash.

What does everyone else think?



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Pete Beall [mailto:peteb-@home.com]

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 16:18 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?





============================================================

Take the guesswork out of genealogy. Go to Ancestry.com

today and sign up for your free 14-day trial. Use the site

risk free and enjoy the No. 1 Source for Family History Online.

http://click.topica.com/aaabudaVxiDpaVzo9Ia/MyFamily

============================================================



One reason for having a combined IV/V field in a USCF race is rule 1F5(a)

that prohibits any prize of commercial value being awarded to a cat V race.

What's the OBRA take on this rule?



Pete Beall



http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html



----- Original Message -----

From: <mmur-@teleport.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:25 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Giving cat 3's a choice ...





 As to the idea making life for new riders (Cat 5) easier, I am in full

agreement. Last year when I asked people about what kept them from going

to

 more events I received several comments from people that went to their

first

 race, generally a 4/5 field, and got blown out the back in short order.

They then concluded that they were not fit enough to be bike racers and

didn't come back. Usually I get blown out fairly quickly the first few

races of the year too but I have been doing this long enough to know that

eventually I will be going OK later in the season. Beginning riders do

not

 have the benefit of that experience. I think if we want the sport to grow

it is essential that organizers try to offer some field that will be

accessible to the beginning racer. Let's have some more Cat 5 only and

Cat

 4 women races.



Mike Murray





============================================================

Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access

to the No. 1 Source for Family History Online. Search over 1

Billion names and trace your family tree today. Click here:

http://click.topica.com/aaabucaVxiDpaVzo9Ic/MyFamily

============================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



____________________________________________________________

T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less.

Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose.

http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01



Pete Beall

2001-02-26

One reason for having a combined IV/V field in a USCF race is rule 1F5(a)

that prohibits any prize of commercial value being awarded to a cat V race.

What's the OBRA take on this rule?



Pete Beall



http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html



----- Original Message -----

From: <mmur-@teleport.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:25 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Giving cat 3's a choice ...





 As to the idea making life for new riders (Cat 5) easier, I am in full

agreement. Last year when I asked people about what kept them from going

to

 more events I received several comments from people that went to their

first

 race, generally a 4/5 field, and got blown out the back in short order.

They then concluded that they were not fit enough to be bike racers and

didn't come back. Usually I get blown out fairly quickly the first few

races of the year too but I have been doing this long enough to know that

eventually I will be going OK later in the season. Beginning riders do

not

 have the benefit of that experience. I think if we want the sport to grow

it is essential that organizers try to offer some field that will be

accessible to the beginning racer. Let's have some more Cat 5 only and

Cat

 4 women races.



Mike Murray