RE: Ca(t) V race rules?

OUTLA-@aol.com

2001-02-28



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Here is the best thing for the lower classes. =A0I dont race bicycles just y=

et=20

but I race motocross and we have a payback system that is JUST TOTALLY=20

awesome and makes it fun for everyone involved. =A0Basically, it works like=20

this.



Wacky Payback



1st, 2nd and 3rd recieve trophies for thier accomplishment.



Then the Winner draws one of 3 paybacks out of a hat.



1 Pays

1st 55% of purse

2nd 30% of Purse

3rd 15% of purse



2 Pays

1st 10% of Purse

5th 10% of Purse

10th 20% of purse etc.=20



3 pays

1st-5th Nothing

6th 25% of purse

14th 10% of purse

25th 40% of purse

last 25% of purse



Obviously, this is an example. =A02-3 paybacks are modified each race so no=20=

one=20

know exactly where to finish to have a chance to race. =A0This makes it=20

EXCITING for everyone because now EVERYONE has a chance to win something and=

=20

be able to brag about thier accomplishments AND it diminishes the posibility=

=20

that someone is out CHERRYPICKING for cash and\or prizes! =A0=A0Remember tha=

t the=20

lower classes are for people to have FUN not become RICH from Cherrypicking=20

the lower classes. =A0Besides, you will not find too many #2's from another=20

area coming your way to brag about kicking some #5's butts for a trophy BUT=20

you sure will find them tryingto win your CASH!



My two cents,



Joe



TRUST ME, you guys will get a kick watching a guy finish in 20th walk away=20

with his first prize money in 20years of supporting your racing organization=

s!





I dont know how to post this as a reply to your WHOLE mailing list.



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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Here is the best thing fo=

r the lower classes. =A0I dont race bicycles just yet=20

<BR>but I race motocross and we have a payback system that is JUST TOTALLY=20

<BR>awesome and makes it fun for everyone involved. =A0Basically, it works l=

ike=20

<BR>this.

<BR>

<BR>Wacky Payback

<BR>

<BR>1st, 2nd and 3rd recieve trophies for thier accomplishment.

<BR>

<BR>Then the Winner draws one of 3 paybacks out of a hat.

<BR>

<BR>1 Pays

<BR>1st 55% of purse

<BR>2nd 30% of Purse

<BR>3rd 15% of purse

<BR>

<BR>2 Pays

<BR>1st 10% of Purse

<BR>5th 10% of Purse

<BR>10th 20% of purse etc.=20

<BR>

<BR>3 pays

<BR>1st-5th Nothing

<BR>6th 25% of purse

<BR>14th 10% of purse

<BR>25th 40% of purse

<BR>last 25% of purse

<BR>

<BR>Obviously, this is an example. =A02-3 paybacks are modified each race so=

no one=20

<BR>know exactly where to finish to have a chance to race. =A0This makes it=20

<BR>EXCITING for everyone because now EVERYONE has a chance to win something=

and=20

<BR>be able to brag about thier accomplishments AND it diminishes the posibi=

lity=20

<BR>that someone is out CHERRYPICKING for cash and\or prizes! =A0=A0Remember=

that the=20

<BR>lower classes are for people to have FUN not become RICH from Cherrypick=

ing=20

<BR>the lower classes. =A0Besides, you will not find too many #2's from anot=

her=20

<BR>area coming your way to brag about kicking some #5's butts for a trophy=20=

BUT=20

<BR>you sure will find them tryingto win your CASH!

<BR>

<BR>My two cents,

<BR>

<BR>Joe

<BR>

<BR>TRUST ME, you guys will get a kick watching a guy finish in 20th walk aw=

ay=20

<BR>with his first prize money in 20years of supporting your racing organiza=

tions!

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>I dont know how to post this as a reply to your WHOLE mailing list.</FON=

T></HTML>



--part1_bd.c24e7d0.27cf33af_boundary--



OUTLA-@aol.com

2001-02-28



--part1_63.126ebf4f.27cf3390_boundary

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



Here is the best thing for the lower classes. =A0I dont race bicycles just y=

et=20

but I race motocross and we have a payback system that is JUST TOTALLY=20

awesome and makes it fun for everyone involved. =A0Basically, it works like=20

this.



Wacky Payback



1st, 2nd and 3rd recieve trophies for thier accomplishment.



Then the Winner draws one of 3 paybacks out of a hat.



1 Pays

1st 55% of purse

2nd 30% of Purse

3rd 15% of purse



2 Pays

1st 10% of Purse

5th 10% of Purse

10th 20% of purse etc.=20



3 pays

1st-5th Nothing

6th 25% of purse

14th 10% of purse

25th 40% of purse

last 25% of purse



Obviously, this is an example. =A02-3 paybacks are modified each race so no=20=

one=20

know exactly where to finish to have a chance to race. =A0This makes it=20

EXCITING for everyone because now EVERYONE has a chance to win something and=

=20

be able to brag about thier accomplishments AND it diminishes the posibility=

=20

that someone is out CHERRYPICKING for cash and\or prizes! =A0=A0Remember tha=

t the=20

lower classes are for people to have FUN not become RICH from Cherrypicking=20

the lower classes. =A0Besides, you will not find too many #2's from another=20

area coming your way to brag about kicking some #5's butts for a trophy BUT=20

you sure will find them tryingto win your CASH!



My two cents,



Joe



TRUST ME, you guys will get a kick watching a guy finish in 20th walk away=20

with his first prize money in 20years of supporting your racing organization=

s!





I dont know how to post this as a reply to your WHOLE mailing list.



--part1_63.126ebf4f.27cf3390_boundary

Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Here is the best thing fo=

r the lower classes. =A0I dont race bicycles just yet=20

<BR>but I race motocross and we have a payback system that is JUST TOTALLY=20

<BR>awesome and makes it fun for everyone involved. =A0Basically, it works l=

ike=20

<BR>this.

<BR>

<BR>Wacky Payback

<BR>

<BR>1st, 2nd and 3rd recieve trophies for thier accomplishment.

<BR>

<BR>Then the Winner draws one of 3 paybacks out of a hat.

<BR>

<BR>1 Pays

<BR>1st 55% of purse

<BR>2nd 30% of Purse

<BR>3rd 15% of purse

<BR>

<BR>2 Pays

<BR>1st 10% of Purse

<BR>5th 10% of Purse

<BR>10th 20% of purse etc.=20

<BR>

<BR>3 pays

<BR>1st-5th Nothing

<BR>6th 25% of purse

<BR>14th 10% of purse

<BR>25th 40% of purse

<BR>last 25% of purse

<BR>

<BR>Obviously, this is an example. =A02-3 paybacks are modified each race so=

no one=20

<BR>know exactly where to finish to have a chance to race. =A0This makes it=20

<BR>EXCITING for everyone because now EVERYONE has a chance to win something=

and=20

<BR>be able to brag about thier accomplishments AND it diminishes the posibi=

lity=20

<BR>that someone is out CHERRYPICKING for cash and\or prizes! =A0=A0Remember=

that the=20

<BR>lower classes are for people to have FUN not become RICH from Cherrypick=

ing=20

<BR>the lower classes. =A0Besides, you will not find too many #2's from anot=

her=20

<BR>area coming your way to brag about kicking some #5's butts for a trophy=20=

BUT=20

<BR>you sure will find them tryingto win your CASH!

<BR>

<BR>My two cents,

<BR>

<BR>Joe

<BR>

<BR>TRUST ME, you guys will get a kick watching a guy finish in 20th walk aw=

ay=20

<BR>with his first prize money in 20years of supporting your racing organiza=

tions!

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>I dont know how to post this as a reply to your WHOLE mailing list.</FON=

T></HTML>



--part1_63.126ebf4f.27cf3390_boundary--



OUTLA-@aol.com

2001-02-28



--part1_5d.7d8c74e.27cf3376_boundary

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



Here is the best thing for the lower classes. =A0I dont race bicycles just y=

et=20

but I race motocross and we have a payback system that is JUST TOTALLY=20

awesome and makes it fun for everyone involved. =A0Basically, it works like=20

this.



Wacky Payback



1st, 2nd and 3rd recieve trophies for thier accomplishment.



Then the Winner draws one of 3 paybacks out of a hat.



1 Pays

1st 55% of purse

2nd 30% of Purse

3rd 15% of purse



2 Pays

1st 10% of Purse

5th 10% of Purse

10th 20% of purse etc.=20



3 pays

1st-5th Nothing

6th 25% of purse

14th 10% of purse

25th 40% of purse

last 25% of purse



Obviously, this is an example. =A02-3 paybacks are modified each race so no=20=

one=20

know exactly where to finish to have a chance to race. =A0This makes it=20

EXCITING for everyone because now EVERYONE has a chance to win something and=

=20

be able to brag about thier accomplishments AND it diminishes the posibility=

=20

that someone is out CHERRYPICKING for cash and\or prizes! =A0=A0Remember tha=

t the=20

lower classes are for people to have FUN not become RICH from Cherrypicking=20

the lower classes. =A0Besides, you will not find too many #2's from another=20

area coming your way to brag about kicking some #5's butts for a trophy BUT=20

you sure will find them tryingto win your CASH!



My two cents,



Joe



TRUST ME, you guys will get a kick watching a guy finish in 20th walk away=20

with his first prize money in 20years of supporting your racing organization=

s!





I dont know how to post this as a reply to your WHOLE mailing list.



--part1_5d.7d8c74e.27cf3376_boundary

Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Here is the best thing fo=

r the lower classes. =A0I dont race bicycles just yet=20

<BR>but I race motocross and we have a payback system that is JUST TOTALLY=20

<BR>awesome and makes it fun for everyone involved. =A0Basically, it works l=

ike=20

<BR>this.

<BR>

<BR>Wacky Payback

<BR>

<BR>1st, 2nd and 3rd recieve trophies for thier accomplishment.

<BR>

<BR>Then the Winner draws one of 3 paybacks out of a hat.

<BR>

<BR>1 Pays

<BR>1st 55% of purse

<BR>2nd 30% of Purse

<BR>3rd 15% of purse

<BR>

<BR>2 Pays

<BR>1st 10% of Purse

<BR>5th 10% of Purse

<BR>10th 20% of purse etc.=20

<BR>

<BR>3 pays

<BR>1st-5th Nothing

<BR>6th 25% of purse

<BR>14th 10% of purse

<BR>25th 40% of purse

<BR>last 25% of purse

<BR>

<BR>Obviously, this is an example. =A02-3 paybacks are modified each race so=

no one=20

<BR>know exactly where to finish to have a chance to race. =A0This makes it=20

<BR>EXCITING for everyone because now EVERYONE has a chance to win something=

and=20

<BR>be able to brag about thier accomplishments AND it diminishes the posibi=

lity=20

<BR>that someone is out CHERRYPICKING for cash and\or prizes! =A0=A0Remember=

that the=20

<BR>lower classes are for people to have FUN not become RICH from Cherrypick=

ing=20

<BR>the lower classes. =A0Besides, you will not find too many #2's from anot=

her=20

<BR>area coming your way to brag about kicking some #5's butts for a trophy=20=

BUT=20

<BR>you sure will find them tryingto win your CASH!

<BR>

<BR>My two cents,

<BR>

<BR>Joe

<BR>

<BR>TRUST ME, you guys will get a kick watching a guy finish in 20th walk aw=

ay=20

<BR>with his first prize money in 20years of supporting your racing organiza=

tions!

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>I dont know how to post this as a reply to your WHOLE mailing list.</FON=

T></HTML>



--part1_5d.7d8c74e.27cf3376_boundary--



Pat OBrien

2001-02-28

Now I know why I have always thought Steve Garcia is such a great guy.



On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:50:58 -0800 STEVE GARCIA <Steve_-@pgn.com>

writes:

 ============================================================

Turn your desktop into a stage with eWalla animated messages!

Deliver your messages via both voice and text! Animated eWallas

will deliver right to any PC desktop. eWalla is new, fun and free!

http://click.topica.com/aaabvKaVxiDpaVzo6Ia/eWalla

============================================================



We don't need no stink'n prizes.



Personally I would like to see:

1st place = a hug from Candi Murray

2nd place = a hand shake from Mike Murray

3rd place = a pat on the back from Splinter



Championship events:

1st place = a kiss on the cheek from Candi Murray

2nd place = a hug from Mike Murray

3rd place = a hand shake from Splinter



Then all participants shake hands and go out for beers.



============================================================



Mike, it sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Race

organizers seem pretty competent to come up with rewards that are

appropriate for the event. That prizes sometimes exceed expectations



isn't necessarily a bad thing. That a big prize list isn't necessary



for a successful race was demonstrated by the two races held so far

this year (little or no prize list, great turnout).



I personally would like to see more ribbons and trophys, but heck,

what do I know.



Jerry



--- Sponsor's Message --------------------------------------

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STEVE GARCIA

2001-02-28

This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to

consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to

properly handle MIME multipart messages.



--=_7E25D4E1.7A1B4732

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Content-Disposition: inline



We don't need no stink'n prizes.



Personally I would like to see:

1st place =3D a hug from Candi Murray

2nd place =3D a hand shake from Mike Murray

3rd place =3D a pat on the back from Splinter



Championship events:

1st place =3D a kiss on the cheek from Candi Murray

2nd place =3D a hug from Mike Murray

3rd place =3D a hand shake from Splinter



Then all participants shake hands and go out for beers.



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



Mike, it sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Race=20

organizers seem pretty competent to come up with rewards that are=20

appropriate for the event. That prizes sometimes exceed expectations=20

isn't necessarily a bad thing. That a big prize list isn't necessary=20

for a successful race was demonstrated by the two races held so far=20

this year (little or no prize list, great turnout).



I personally would like to see more ribbons and trophys, but heck,=20

what do I know.



Jerry



--=_7E25D4E1.7A1B4732

Content-Type: text/plain

Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"



<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">

<HTML>

<HEAD>



<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>

<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>

</HEAD>

<BODY style="FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: 2px">

<DIV>We don't need no stink'n prizes.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Personally I would like to see:</DIV>

<DIV>1st place = a hug from Candi Murray</DIV>

<DIV>2nd place = a hand shake from Mike Murray</DIV>

<DIV>3rd place = a pat on the back from Splinter</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Championship events:</DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>1st place = a kiss on the cheek from Candi Murray</DIV>

<DIV>2nd place = a hug from Mike Murray</DIV>

<DIV>3rd place = a hand shake from Splinter</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Then all participants shake hands and go out  for beers.</DIV></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>============================================================<BR><BR>Mike,

it sounds like a solution looking for a problem.  Race <BR>organizers seem

pretty competent to come up with rewards that are <BR>appropriate for the event.

That prizes sometimes exceed expectations <BR>isn't necessarily a bad thing.

That a big prize list isn't necessary <BR>for a successful race was demonstrated

by the two races held so far <BR>this year (little or no prize list, great

turnout).<BR><BR>I personally would like to see more ribbons and trophys, but

heck, <BR>what do I know.<BR><BR>Jerry<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>



--=_7E25D4E1.7A1B4732--



mark.sc-@milliman.com

2001-02-28

I agree with Jerry that we do not need to disallow cash prizes for lower=20=

categories=2E I've spoken to Mike on this and I understand his point, but I=20=

don't like restricting any categories to only non-cash=2E For one, cash is=20=

easily divisible; merchandise is definitely not=2E

---------------------- Forwarded by Mark Schwyhart/PTLD/M&R on 02/28/2001 11:29=20=

AM ---------------------------





MIME:psu01696@pdx=2Eedu on 02/28/2001 10:56:51 AM

To: obra@topica=2Ecom @ INTERNET

cc: (bcc: Mark Schwyhart/PTLD/M&R)

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Ca(t) V race rules?



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Send messages "that have character!" It=12s new, fun and free!

Deliver your messages via both voice and text! Animated eWallas

will deliver right to any PC desktop=2E You=12ll love eWalla!

http://click=2Etopica=2Ecom/aaabvJaVxiDpaVzo9aa/eWalla

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



Mike, it sounds like a solution looking for a problem=2E Race organizers seem=20=

pretty competent to come up with rewards that are appropriate for the event=2E=20=

That prizes sometimes exceed expectations isn't necessarily a bad thing=2E That a=

=20=

big prize list isn't necessary for a successful race was demonstrated by the=20=

two races held so far this year (little or no prize list, great turnout)=2E



I personally would like to see more ribbons and trophys, but heck, what do I=20=

know=2E



Jerry





 At 10:08 PM -0800 2/27/01, mmurray@teleport=2Ecom wrote:

OBRA does not have a similar rule limiting prizes for Cat 5=2E I personally

would be in favor of a rule that limited Cat 4/5 races to medals, ribbons,

etc=2E (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 races limited to merchandise

and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive cash=2E The race designation would be by

the fastest category in the race, e=2Eg=2E riders in a Cat 2/3 could win cash=2E

What does everyone else think?



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Pete Beall [mailto:petebeall@home=2Ecom]

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 16:18 PM

To: obra@topica=2Ecom

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?





One reason for having a combined IV/V field in a USCF race is rule 1F5(a)

that prohibits any prize of commercial value being awarded to a cat V race=2E

What's the OBRA take on this rule?



Pete Beall



http://www=2Emembers=2Ehome=2Enet/petebeall/switch=2Ehtml



----- Original Message -----

From: <mmurray@teleport=2Ecom>

To: <obra@topica=2Ecom>

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:25 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Giving cat 3's a choice =2E=2E=2E





 As to the idea making life for new riders (Cat 5) easier, I am in full

agreement=2E Last year when I asked people about what kept them from going

to more events I received several comments from people that went to their

first race, generally a 4/5 field, and got blown out the back in short

order=2E They then concluded that they were not fit enough to be bike racers

and didn't come back=2E Usually I get blown out fairly quickly the first fe=

w

  races of the year too but I have been doing this long enough to know that

eventually I will be going OK later in the season=2E Beginning riders do

not have the benefit of that experience=2E I think if we want the sport to

grow it is essential that organizers try to offer some field that will be

accessible to the beginning racer=2E Let's have some more Cat 5 only and

Cat 4 women races=2E



Mike Murray

-- --- Sponsor's Message --------------------------------------

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T O P I C A -- Learn More=2E Surf Less=2E Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on=20=

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copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in

reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful=2E



Jerry Powell

2001-02-28

Mike, it sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Race

organizers seem pretty competent to come up with rewards that are

appropriate for the event. That prizes sometimes exceed expectations

isn't necessarily a bad thing. That a big prize list isn't necessary

for a successful race was demonstrated by the two races held so far

this year (little or no prize list, great turnout).



I personally would like to see more ribbons and trophys, but heck,

what do I know.



Jerry





 At 10:08 PM -0800 2/27/01, mmur-@teleport.com wrote:

OBRA does not have a similar rule limiting prizes for Cat 5. I personally

would be in favor of a rule that limited Cat 4/5 races to medals, ribbons,

etc. (items of minimal economic value), Cat 3 races limited to merchandise

and Pro/Cat 1/2 races may receive cash. The race designation would be by

the fastest category in the race, e.g. riders in a Cat 2/3 could win cash.

What does everyone else think?



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Pete Beall [mailto:peteb-@home.com]

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 16:18 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car V race rules?





One reason for having a combined IV/V field in a USCF race is rule 1F5(a)

that prohibits any prize of commercial value being awarded to a cat V race.

What's the OBRA take on this rule?



Pete Beall



http://www.members.home.net/petebeall/switch.html



----- Original Message -----

From: <mmur-@teleport.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:25 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Giving cat 3's a choice ...





 As to the idea making life for new riders (Cat 5) easier, I am in full

agreement. Last year when I asked people about what kept them from going

to more events I received several comments from people that went to their

first race, generally a 4/5 field, and got blown out the back in short

order. They then concluded that they were not fit enough to be bike racers

and didn't come back. Usually I get blown out fairly quickly the first few

races of the year too but I have been doing this long enough to know that

eventually I will be going OK later in the season. Beginning riders do

not have the benefit of that experience. I think if we want the sport to

grow it is essential that organizers try to offer some field that will be

accessible to the beginning racer. Let's have some more Cat 5 only and

Cat 4 women races.



Mike Murray

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