OBRA: OBRA Chat: Getting older

mark duff

2005-08-11

He is also the new crowned National Kerin Champion as of last night at ADT,

and second place was a bike behind him. So Stephen is going good!!! Lets see

what he can do in the sprints.

Cheers

Mark

PS Young guy Josh Kerkoff (former Rubicon rider) now riding for Carney's

team won the scratch race for the second year in a row...

From: Luciano bailey <ride-@hotmail.com>

Reply-To: ride-@hotmail.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Getting older

Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:47:08 +0000

I will once again differ to Stephen Alfords record breaking ride in the

flying lap at the AVC oldest guy in the field who with timing, skill, and

raw power beat a whole field of guys nearly twenty years younger.( Ok the

gods of winds were on his side too)

From: Pat Sagers <pat.s-@alldata.net>

Reply-To: pat.s-@alldata.net

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Getting older

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:51:27 -0400

Well I think I should speak up because I'm a full on expert at getting

older. I've been doing it every day of my life. The more I look around

the more I know I'm a minority. Well seriously I feel like I'm the only

one getting older most of the time. I've only been serious on the bike

now for 3-4 years. I can say that I am getting faster as each year goes

by. I'm not sure when I'll peak but I think I have several more years

of improvement.

One theory I have about 'getting older doesn't mean slower' is that I

think it takes time to develop a large cardio engine. Some of the

Masters have been working on theirs for a long long time. A lot of

other factors go into being fast but if your talking about the non-power

type events like most road races and TT's and perhaps the PIRs then it's

more about aerobic capacity, body type and strength to weight ratio.

Perhaps some of the track guys can confirm this but I think there must

be a much faster decline with track riding in aging riders. To me

that's more of a power sport and not heavily dependent on cardio.

Correct me if I'm wrong as I really don't know for sure.

I don't completely buy into the genetics thing except for body type. If

you're a big guy, you'll have to work extra hard to be a decent climber

and the same for the small rider, you'll have a tough time on the flats,

closing gaps and dealing with strong cross winds.

That's about it for me,

Pat

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Luciano bailey

2005-08-11

I will once again differ to Stephen Alfords record breaking ride in the

flying lap at the AVC oldest guy in the field who with timing, skill, and

raw power beat a whole field of guys nearly twenty years younger.( Ok the

gods of winds were on his side too)

From: Pat Sagers <pat.s-@alldata.net>

Reply-To: pat.s-@alldata.net

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Getting older

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:51:27 -0400

Well I think I should speak up because I'm a full on expert at getting

older. I've been doing it every day of my life. The more I look around

the more I know I'm a minority. Well seriously I feel like I'm the only

one getting older most of the time. I've only been serious on the bike

now for 3-4 years. I can say that I am getting faster as each year goes

by. I'm not sure when I'll peak but I think I have several more years

of improvement.

One theory I have about 'getting older doesn't mean slower' is that I

think it takes time to develop a large cardio engine. Some of the

Masters have been working on theirs for a long long time. A lot of

other factors go into being fast but if your talking about the non-power

type events like most road races and TT's and perhaps the PIRs then it's

more about aerobic capacity, body type and strength to weight ratio.

Perhaps some of the track guys can confirm this but I think there must

be a much faster decline with track riding in aging riders. To me

that's more of a power sport and not heavily dependent on cardio.

Correct me if I'm wrong as I really don't know for sure.

I don't completely buy into the genetics thing except for body type. If

you're a big guy, you'll have to work extra hard to be a decent climber

and the same for the small rider, you'll have a tough time on the flats,

closing gaps and dealing with strong cross winds.

That's about it for me,

Pat

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

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get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

Luciano bailey

2005-08-11

Although these few exceptional world class athletes are able to achieve

these mid thirties highs most with jobs and family etc. are not able to

continuosly train. Truth be told most of the OBRA fast masters race open,

when the crying starts is when these guys choose to double up most times and

race the masters race as well.

From: kj-@kurtrobinson.org

Reply-To: kj-@kurtrobinson.org

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Getting older

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:54:39 -0700 (PDT)

Ahem ... BTW: 2005 Team Discovery Channel Roster ... Viatchelsov

Ekimov ... Age 39(+).

Since Lance just won the Tour at almost 34 years of age and

many pro's ride into their mid to late 30's it seems weird

in my opinion to

declare people "masters" at 30+. Many people, especially

women, reach their peak strength in their early 30's -

hardly a time for them to be in the masters cat.

I think 35, or even 40, would be a more reasonable line to

draw. That 25+ masters cat in nordic skiing sounds something

like grade inflation to me!!! Soon anyone out of diapers

will be a master!

Vicki Schroeder

******************************

It's not how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how

well you bounce that really matters :)

*********

Thanks,

Kurt

kj-@kurtrobinson.org

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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jo-@aracnet.com

2005-08-10

Remember:

Age and wisdom will defeat youth and strength every time* :^)

* - Ancient Chinese proverb, IIRC

Joe

Joel Morrissette wrote:

On 8/10/05, Tim Schauer <TSch-@mackaysposito.com> wrote:

I take heart in the realization

that some of the fastest guys I race against, and that win the events I

enter, are pushing 10 years my senior....I still have time to get

faster!

On 8/10/05, Pat Sagers <pat.s-@alldata.net> wrote:

Masters have been working on theirs for a long long time. A lot of

other factors go into being fast but if your talking about the non-power

type events like most road races and TT's and perhaps the PIRs then it's

more about aerobic capacity, body type and strength to weight ratio.

As a runner as well as a cyclist, I can assure you that the

50-something men are the ones to fear. I've been dusted by these guys

more times than I care to admit in every foot race I've entered. I

figure many of them have been working on their aerobic capacity for a

good 30 years - really backs up what Pat was saying regarding power

vs. capacity.

If I could catch my breath long enough, I'd thank them for setting the

bar so damned high.

-Joel

-----------------------------------

      __o "It never gets easier,

    _ \<_   you just go faster."

   (_)/(_)       -- Greg LeMond

-----------------------------------

Joel Morrissette

2005-08-10

On 8/10/05, Tim Schauer <TSch-@mackaysposito.com> wrote:

I take heart in the realization

that some of the fastest guys I race against, and that win the events I

enter, are pushing 10 years my senior....I still have time to get

faster!

On 8/10/05, Pat Sagers <pat.s-@alldata.net> wrote:

Masters have been working on theirs for a long long time. A lot of

other factors go into being fast but if your talking about the non-power

type events like most road races and TT's and perhaps the PIRs then it's

more about aerobic capacity, body type and strength to weight ratio.

As a runner as well as a cyclist, I can assure you that the

50-something men are the ones to fear. I've been dusted by these guys

more times than I care to admit in every foot race I've entered. I

figure many of them have been working on their aerobic capacity for a

good 30 years - really backs up what Pat was saying regarding power

vs. capacity.

If I could catch my breath long enough, I'd thank them for setting the

bar so damned high.

-Joel

-----------------------------------

     __o "It never gets easier,

   _ \<_   you just go faster."

(_)/(_)       -- Greg LeMond

-----------------------------------

Sagers, Pat

2005-08-10

Well I think I should speak up because I'm a full on expert at getting

older. I've been doing it every day of my life. The more I look around

the more I know I'm a minority. Well seriously I feel like I'm the only

one getting older most of the time. I've only been serious on the bike

now for 3-4 years. I can say that I am getting faster as each year goes

by. I'm not sure when I'll peak but I think I have several more years

of improvement.

One theory I have about 'getting older doesn't mean slower' is that I

think it takes time to develop a large cardio engine. Some of the

Masters have been working on theirs for a long long time. A lot of

other factors go into being fast but if your talking about the non-power

type events like most road races and TT's and perhaps the PIRs then it's

more about aerobic capacity, body type and strength to weight ratio.

Perhaps some of the track guys can confirm this but I think there must

be a much faster decline with track riding in aging riders. To me

that's more of a power sport and not heavily dependent on cardio.

Correct me if I'm wrong as I really don't know for sure.

I don't completely buy into the genetics thing except for body type. If

you're a big guy, you'll have to work extra hard to be a decent climber

and the same for the small rider, you'll have a tough time on the flats,

closing gaps and dealing with strong cross winds.

That's about it for me,

Pat

Tim Schauer

2005-08-10

"Masters" races shouldn't be labeled or perceived as slower or past

their peak...Maybe a Masters category means something else...?

I have only been racing 6 years. I'm 37 and a Cat 3. I can't speak to

what it is like to race in the Cat 1-2 fields, masters or not. Having

just been eligible or maybe "privileged" to ride as a Master in some

events, I have come to perceive the distinction between Masters races

and other races as follows: the Masters races seem to include increased

levels of caution, competitor courtesy, sometimes team tactics, and

decreased levels of risks taken, personal aggression, and sometimes

accidents. I certainly have not found the Masters races slower or less

competitive by any means. Maybe even the opposite. I guess I see the

masters races in Oregon as generally safer and more fun, than non

masters races. But certainly not slower! I take heart in the realization

that some of the fastest guys I race against, and that win the events I

enter, are pushing 10 years my senior....I still have time to get

faster!

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----

From: Vicki Schroeder [mailto:vicki_sc-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:02 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Getting older

Since Lance just won the Tour at almost 34 years of age and many pro's

ride into their mid to late 30's it seems weird in my opinion to declare

people "masters" at 30+. Many people, especially women, reach their peak

strength in their early 30's - hardly a time for them to be in the

masters cat.

I think 35, or even 40, would be a more reasonable line to draw. That

25+ masters cat in nordic skiing sounds something like grade inflation

to me!!! Soon anyone out of diapers will be a master!

Vicki Schroeder

******************************

It's not how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you

bounce that really matters :)

kj-@kurtrobinson.org

2005-08-10

Ahem ... BTW: 2005 Team Discovery Channel Roster ... Viatchelsov

Ekimov ... Age 39(+).

Since Lance just won the Tour at almost 34 years of age and

many pro's ride into their mid to late 30's it seems weird

in my opinion to

declare people "masters" at 30+. Many people, especially

women, reach their peak strength in their early 30's -

hardly a time for them to be in the masters cat.

I think 35, or even 40, would be a more reasonable line to

draw. That 25+ masters cat in nordic skiing sounds something

like grade inflation to me!!! Soon anyone out of diapers

will be a master!

Vicki Schroeder

******************************

It's not how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how

well you bounce that really matters :)

*********

Thanks,

Kurt

kj-@kurtrobinson.org

Vicki Schroeder

2005-08-10

Since Lance just won the Tour at almost 34 years of age and many pro's

ride into their mid to late 30's it seems weird in my opinion to

declare people "masters" at 30+. Many people, especially women, reach

their peak strength in their early 30's - hardly a time for them to be

in the masters cat.

I think 35, or even 40, would be a more reasonable line to draw. That

25+ masters cat in nordic skiing sounds something like grade inflation

to me!!! Soon anyone out of diapers will be a master!

Vicki Schroeder

******************************

It's not how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you

bounce that really matters :)

Luciano bailey

2005-08-10

This is all well and good but lets not turn the masters into a geriatric

race some over forties and even over fifties can still go proof positive the

numbers of masters cat 1,2, or the oldest sprinter at the challenge (ALford)

breaking the flying record. save the age specifics for states and nats,and

worlds. Racing againsts young legs can only improve ones fitness at these

important masters events. Guys like Carl Roberts, Lance Coffel, use the

faster fields to gauge fitness and have stellar performances at the events

where it really counts. No we can not be 21 again, but enough talk about age

and ability lets race and be proud of the fact were still racing over thirty

, forty fifty, sixty. One of the most boring things in racing is

sandbagging, the most exciting watching a racer work his way to the top , or

near the top of his group. Think more about personal bests than podium it

will make the road to the podium much smoother.

From: Evan MacKenzie <eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us>

Reply-To: eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Getting older

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:09:04 -0700

OK, I will just offer this one thing, and I'll shut up.

You know those milestones you pass when you know you are getting older?

Like getting your driver's license at 16, being able to drink (legally)

at 21, etc.

I knew I was getting old last year when I would be able to race the

Masters 35+ category in 'cross.

And then, they changed the Masters age to 30, and lo and behold, it

turned out that I had been old for five years!

So I raced C.

30 is too young to be in the Masters class.

And I'm getting too old to race against the young'ens.

But gosh darn, I still want to race. And yeah, I'd like to finish

reasonably well at least occasionally.

So let OBRA establish a line where one is either a Master or not, at

every race, road, track, mountain and 'cross. Encourage race promoters

to adhere to that line. If an older rider is still blazing fast, he or

she can race 3, 2, or 1, or whatever combination of those a particular

race has. More power to ya. If you lead a normal life and can't afford

the time to train (or you are simply not superhuman), you can race

Masters and not worry about getting (s)lapped.

I'll see you all out there at the Crusade, in one class or another...

Evan

Evan MacKenzie

Urban Planner I

City of Hillsboro

150 E. Main Street, 4th floor

Hillsboro, OR 97123

503-681-6154

http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/

------------- __o

---------- _ '\<,_

----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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Matt Plummer

2005-08-10

From the side of a nordic skier I will share that a master skier is now 25+. This does not hold true to world masters. The world is holding strong with 30+. I'm not sure if this even matters, but its good to see how other sports do it.

Master or not...don't forget to register for High Desert Omnium.

Matt Plummer

________________________________

From: Evan MacKenzie [mailto:eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us]

Sent: Wed 8/10/2005 9:09 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Getting older

OK, I will just offer this one thing, and I'll shut up.

You know those milestones you pass when you know you are getting older?

Like getting your driver's license at 16, being able to drink (legally) at 21, etc.

I knew I was getting old last year when I would be able to race the Masters 35+ category in 'cross.

And then, they changed the Masters age to 30, and lo and behold, it turned out that I had been old for five years!

So I raced C.

30 is too young to be in the Masters class.

And I'm getting too old to race against the young'ens.

But gosh darn, I still want to race. And yeah, I'd like to finish reasonably well at least occasionally.

So let OBRA establish a line where one is either a Master or not, at every race, road, track, mountain and 'cross. Encourage race promoters to adhere to that line. If an older rider is still blazing fast, he or she can race 3, 2, or 1, or whatever combination of those a particular race has. More power to ya. If you lead a normal life and can't afford the time to train (or you are simply not superhuman), you can race Masters and not worry about getting (s)lapped.

I'll see you all out there at the Crusade, in one class or another...

Evan

Evan MacKenzie

Urban Planner I

City of Hillsboro

150 E. Main Street, 4th floor

Hillsboro, OR 97123

503-681-6154

http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/

------------- __o

---------- _ '\<,_

----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Evan MacKenzie

2005-08-10

OK, I will just offer this one thing, and I'll shut up.

You know those milestones you pass when you know you are getting older?

Like getting your driver's license at 16, being able to drink (legally)

at 21, etc.

I knew I was getting old last year when I would be able to race the

Masters 35+ category in 'cross.

And then, they changed the Masters age to 30, and lo and behold, it

turned out that I had been old for five years!

So I raced C.

30 is too young to be in the Masters class.

And I'm getting too old to race against the young'ens.

But gosh darn, I still want to race. And yeah, I'd like to finish

reasonably well at least occasionally.

So let OBRA establish a line where one is either a Master or not, at

every race, road, track, mountain and 'cross. Encourage race promoters

to adhere to that line. If an older rider is still blazing fast, he or

she can race 3, 2, or 1, or whatever combination of those a particular

race has. More power to ya. If you lead a normal life and can't afford

the time to train (or you are simply not superhuman), you can race

Masters and not worry about getting (s)lapped.

I'll see you all out there at the Crusade, in one class or another...

Evan

Evan MacKenzie

Urban Planner I

City of Hillsboro

150 E. Main Street, 4th floor

Hillsboro, OR 97123

503-681-6154

http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/

------------- __o

---------- _ '\<,_

----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!