.David.Auker.

David Hart wrote:



 One thing that keeps it smooth is when you pull off the front into the

wind to retire, you don't overshoot the rider behind you, many were

pulling off 2 bike lengths ahead and that created a surge from the

retiring side. I do agree that the faster riders were pulling through

faster than the rider behind them and that created a gap.

One way to look at this, is you "owe" your rear wheel to the rider

that's waiting in the "go-back" line (of a double pace-line).





 Well, I think that is racing

It is, IF you are in a regular race, where you can psyche out other

riders, make 'em feel weak, by surging, giving extra work for the rider

that needs your shelter as you pull off...well, this ISN'T a "regular"

race...it's more like a team time trial, as you all are (should be)

working to catch/stay away. Save the hero stuff for the last couple of

laps. No nasty, just brotherhood/sisterhood/teamie.



 and myself and a few others knew we had to keep the pace above 27mph.

Some guys were slowing in the retiring field instead of keeping thier

speed. There is a lot of skill involved and I felt that it contributed

to your crash Mike. A lot of guys got sloppy for 2 seconds and it was

over. Don't overlap wheels! I saw that quite a few times.



It helps to yell 'Clear' and let the guy move off right in front of

you when he is done with his pull. Miscommunication make you work harder.

Yeah, when you pull off, and you're waiting for the next rider to do

likewise, you want him not to dally. As soon as he can safely swing

over from the "go-line" to give you shelter, you say anything..."Clear,"

"OK," whatever...then it's up to you to nestle into his draft w/o

crashing, since you invited him to pull over on you.



 What was up with the attacking before we caught the 4's???



I urge for any advise to help everyone out, myself included. Just

don't share with the 1/2 field!

Shhhh! :-)



fyi: Back in the distant galaxy of the '70s, '80s, when downtubes had

friction shift-levers, PIR (called "Delta Park Racing Series") used to

be a handicap format, with the scratch race only occasionally. Fun to

have some variety. Thanks, Steve, Jeff!



David

David Hart

One thing that keeps it smooth is when you pull off the front into the wind to retire, you don't overshoot the rider behind you, many were pulling off 2 bike lengths ahead and that created a surge from the retiring side. I do agree that the faster riders were pulling through faster than the rider behind them and that created a gap.  Well, I think that is racing and myself and a few others knew we had to keep the pace above 27mph. Some guys were slowing in the retiring field instead of keeping thier speed. There is a lot of skill involved and I felt that it contributed to your crash Mike.  A lot of guys got sloppy for 2 seconds and it was over. Don't overlap wheels! I saw that quite a few times.

It helps to yell 'Clear' and let the guy move off right in front of you when he is done with his pull.  Miscommunication make you work harder.

What was up with the attacking before we caught the 4's???

I urge for any advise to help everyone out, myself included. Just don't share with the 1/2 field!

 

David Hart Vancouver, Washington





From: Doug Evans <Dou-@sprbrk.com>Reply-To: Dou-@sprbrk.comTo: mike.m-@obra.org, ob-@topica.comSubject: RE: [OBRA Chat] PIR RacesDate: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:04:47 -0700











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Can we make this mandatory reading for the cat 3's next week?  I think your assessment of the 3's inefficiencies is spot on.   



-----Original Message-----From: mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 12:59 PMTo: ob-@topica.comSubject: RE: [OBRA Chat] PIR Races

What problems did you see?  From my position, which ended up being on the ground last night, the only problem I saw was minimal skills at riding double pace line, although it was considerably better than last week where there was no pace line in the 3 field at all!  Last night the major problem, at least in the 3 field, was that stronger riders became impatient with the pace and would pull though too quickly which would open holes behind them thereby wasting their effort.  Another problem was that riders in the retiring line would get anxious and push their way into the advancing line too quickly. This limits the number of riders rotating through the pace line.  A third problem was that retiring riders would pull and then fail to stay on the rider in front off them, effectively making

a single pace line at their place.  A single pace line is faster for a smaller group, say 10 or less.  In a group as large as last night a double pace line will move more efficiently.  The last problem was that the group failed to always take the shortest and best wind sheltered line.  Regardless of this the 3 field moved pretty fast, averaging around 27 mph.  This would have been fast enough if the 1/2 field went 28 mph and the race was 45 minutes long.  The problem was that the 1/2 field moved at closer to 30 mph and the race was closer to 1 hour.  A slightly less efficient 1/2 field, slightly more efficient 3 field and a slightly shorter race and the whole deal changes.  Maybe next week. 

 

It is important for everyone to realize that the group moves quickly not because everyone or anyone rides fast but more because no one rides slow.  Each small inefficiency in the group effort leads to a slower net speed.  Handicaps are excellent this way because they drill the idea of cooperative riding, which is an essential skill and not practiced much currently.  I am constantly amazed to see riders in breaks in the faster categories who ride as though they have no idea of how a pace line should work.

 

At any rate, the problems I saw were not so much etiquette but mostly just inefficiency in group riding.  None of that had anything to do with the fall which happened after the groups came back together.  It appears that the fall happened because a couple of rider got tangled up on the left and the resulting action took out riders on the right side.  That is just bike racing and there is probably not a lot you can do about that except to leave more room to maneuver which would, of course, not be real bike racing.

Mike Murray





-----Original Message-----From: Evan MacKenzie [mailto:eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 09:38 AMTo: ob-@topica.comSubject: [OBRA Chat] PIR Races



After a little conversation among a few other racers online, I thought I might just offer this to OBRAland:

 

I think we need a little refresher on dos, don?ts, and etiquette before the next Tuesday night Handicap races.

Sounds like there were a few problems last night.

 

We are trying to get MORE people to race, right? Not scare them away.

 

I don?t want to fill up the ?serv with comments. I just want to see some good racing, and encourage all current and potential racers to start or keep it up.

 

I?ll see you all out there next Tuesday.

 

Evan MacKenzie

Urban Planner I

City of Hillsboro

150 E. Main Street, 4th floor

Hillsboro, OR 97123

503-681-6154

http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/

 

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Doug Evans

Can we make this mandatory reading for the cat 3's next week? I think your assessment of the 3's inefficiencies is spot on.   



-----Original Message-----

From: mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 12:59 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] PIR Races





What problems did you see? From my position, which ended up being on the ground last night, the only problem I saw was minimal skills at riding double pace line, although it was considerably better than last week where there was no pace line in the 3 field at all! Last night the major problem, at least in the 3 field, was that stronger riders became impatient with the pace and would pull though too quickly which would open holes behind them thereby wasting their effort. Another problem was that riders in the retiring line would get anxious and push their way into the advancing line too quickly. This limits the number of riders rotating through the pace line. A third problem was that retiring riders would pull and then fail to stay on the rider in front off them, effectively making a single pace line at their place. A single pace line is faster for a smaller group, say 10 or less. In a group as large as last night a double pace line will move more efficiently. The last problem was that the group failed to always take the shortest and best wind sheltered line. Regardless of this the 3 field moved pretty fast, averaging around 27 mph. This would have been fast enough if the 1/2 field went 28 mph and the race was 45 minutes long. The problem was that the 1/2 field moved at closer to 30 mph and the race was closer to 1 hour. A slightly less efficient 1/2 field, slightly more efficient 3 field and a slightly shorter race and the whole deal changes. Maybe next week.



It is important for everyone to realize that the group moves quickly not because everyone or anyone rides fast but more because no one rides slow. Each small inefficiency in the group effort leads to a slower net speed. Handicaps are excellent this way because they drill the idea of cooperative riding, which is an essential skill and not practiced much currently. I am constantly amazed to see riders in breaks in the faster categories who ride as though they have no idea of how a pace line should work.



At any rate, the problems I saw were not so much etiquette but mostly just inefficiency in group riding. None of that had anything to do with the fall which happened after the groups came back together. It appears that the fall happened because a couple of rider got tangled up on the left and the resulting action took out riders on the right side. That is just bike racing and there is probably not a lot you can do about that except to leave more room to maneuver which would, of course, not be real bike racing.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Evan MacKenzie [mailto:eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us]

Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 09:38 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] PIR Races







After a little conversation among a few other racers online, I thought I might just offer this to OBRAland:







I think we need a little refresher on dos, don'ts, and etiquette before the next Tuesday night Handicap races.



Sounds like there were a few problems last night.







We are trying to get MORE people to race, right? Not scare them away.







I don't want to fill up the 'serv with comments. I just want to see some good racing, and encourage all current and potential racers to start or keep it up.







I'll see you all out there next Tuesday.







Evan MacKenzie



Urban Planner I



City of Hillsboro



150 E. Main Street, 4th floor



Hillsboro, OR 97123



503-681-6154



http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/







------------- __o

---------- _ '\<,_

----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!







To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

mike.m-@obra.org

What problems did you see? From my position, which ended up being on the

ground last night, the only problem I saw was minimal skills at riding

double pace line, although it was considerably better than last week where

there was no pace line in the 3 field at all! Last night the major problem,

at least in the 3 field, was that stronger riders became impatient with the

pace and would pull though too quickly which would open holes behind them

thereby wasting their effort. Another problem was that riders in the

retiring line would get anxious and push their way into the advancing line

too quickly. This limits the number of riders rotating through the pace

line. A third problem was that retiring riders would pull and then fail to

stay on the rider in front off them, effectively making a single pace line

at their place. A single pace line is faster for a smaller group, say 10 or

less. In a group as large as last night a double pace line will move more

efficiently. The last problem was that the group failed to always take the

shortest and best wind sheltered line. Regardless of this the 3 field moved

pretty fast, averaging around 27 mph. This would have been fast enough if

the 1/2 field went 28 mph and the race was 45 minutes long. The problem was

that the 1/2 field moved at closer to 30 mph and the race was closer to 1

hour. A slightly less efficient 1/2 field, slightly more efficient 3 field

and a slightly shorter race and the whole deal changes. Maybe next week.



It is important for everyone to realize that the group moves quickly not

because everyone or anyone rides fast but more because no one rides slow.

Each small inefficiency in the group effort leads to a slower net speed.

Handicaps are excellent this way because they drill the idea of cooperative

riding, which is an essential skill and not practiced much currently. I am

constantly amazed to see riders in breaks in the faster categories who ride

as though they have no idea of how a pace line should work.



At any rate, the problems I saw were not so much etiquette but mostly just

inefficiency in group riding. None of that had anything to do with the fall

which happened after the groups came back together. It appears that the

fall happened because a couple of rider got tangled up on the left and the

resulting action took out riders on the right side. That is just bike

racing and there is probably not a lot you can do about that except to leave

more room to maneuver which would, of course, not be real bike racing.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Evan MacKenzie [mailto:eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us]

Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 09:38 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] PIR Races







After a little conversation among a few other racers online, I thought I

might just offer this to OBRAland:







I think we need a little refresher on dos, don'ts, and etiquette before the

next Tuesday night Handicap races.



Sounds like there were a few problems last night.







We are trying to get MORE people to race, right? Not scare them away.







I don't want to fill up the 'serv with comments. I just want to see some

good racing, and encourage all current and potential racers to start or keep

it up.







I'll see you all out there next Tuesday.







Evan MacKenzie



Urban Planner I



City of Hillsboro



150 E. Main Street, 4th floor



Hillsboro, OR 97123



503-681-6154



http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/







------------- __o

---------- _ '\<,_

----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!







To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Evan MacKenzie

After a little conversation among a few other racers online, I thought I

might just offer this to OBRAland:







I think we need a little refresher on dos, don'ts, and etiquette before

the next Tuesday night Handicap races.



Sounds like there were a few problems last night.







We are trying to get MORE people to race, right? Not scare them away.







I don't want to fill up the 'serv with comments. I just want to see some

good racing, and encourage all current and potential racers to start or

keep it up.







I'll see you all out there next Tuesday.







Evan MacKenzie



Urban Planner I



City of Hillsboro



150 E. Main Street, 4th floor



Hillsboro, OR 97123



503-681-6154



http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/







------------- __o

---------- _ '\<,_

----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!