RE: PIR Races    [ long ]

martin cohen

2005-09-16



Yes, doubly thank David and John for writing such good tips; will print

out John's post and use as 'required' reading.



Ken Morton wrote:

 One of the big probelms in the 4-5

field is that many (most?) of us have never practiced a race pace >line

and did not know what we were doing.



Never practised a double paceline, in training or racing. Hard to

coordinate the coaches yelling at us when you're on the edge, and you

have to switch sides on the same lap, depending on the wind. Can someone

remind me what team(s) have training rides that allow the general public

in and they practise these skills? Out here in the boonies that is Hood

River we never get enough guys together to practise much.



 not to mention the poor soul who just rotated off



Um, that'd be me!

     

 The first week, I _hated_ this format, as I got blown off the back >of

the "pace line" on the second lap when the wheel I was following

allowed a big gap before I noticed it.   >



You too?



 I'll be back out Tuesday to practice what I've learned.



Me too.



Marty Cohen



 

Ken Morton

Cat 4, BBC









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Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

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Ken Morton

2005-09-16



--- john schmidt <twotireti-@yahoo.com> wrote:



 Ok I took the bait.



For an echelon or double paceline, you want to always pull off into

the

wind. This is hard at PIR with the slow corners. It would be easier

<snip>



John,



Thanks for taking the time to write this up, hopefully it will help! I

rode the 4-5 race as a 4, and to be honest it's the first time I've

ever ridden in a "race" paceline. One of the big probelms in the 4-5

field is that many (most?) of us have never practiced a race pace line,

and did not know what we were doing. Strong riders were regularly

pulling over 1-2 (or more) bike lengths in front of the retiring line,

which cause no end of surging. Some riders got on front and immediatly

picked up speed, killing those behind, not to mention the poor soul who

just rotated off. Despite the problems, we did a much better job this

week and managed to catch the Cat 5 field.



The first week, I _hated_ this format, as I got blown off the back of

the "pace line" on the second lap when the wheel I was following

allowed a big gap before I noticed it. There was no way I could catch

the pack, and finally I pulled off in frustration. I joined the 4's in

the second field, and frankly was just not strong enough to keep up. I

slid back to the 3's and hung with them OK, except I was tired and not

riding smart so again I pulled off course. This week I had more fun,

even though I actually worked harder. More importantly, I learned some

new riding skills.



I'll be back out Tuesday to practice what I've learned.



Ken Morton

Cat 4, BBC









__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com



john schmidt

2005-09-16



Ok I took the bait.



For an echelon or double paceline, you want to always pull off into the

wind. This is hard at PIR with the slow corners. It would be easier

safer on like a 4 mile square with 90 deg corners. I haven't been out

there yet for the handicap. Probably just need to pick rotating

direction that helps the most with the wind and Not try to switch the

direction of rotation twice a lap. The race is won and lost in the

corners (for pacelines...). but anyway...    



Cat 3 and 4s can do echelons and double pacelines. I've done a 100+

mile race in well under 4 hours (1990 casper classic) in the 3 field and

it was really quite an easy ride. But We had perfect echelons (yes

plural). we got them going and no one saw any reason not to keep them

going. And we were only minutes off the Pro field pace... But really I

recieved great training from my club in Michigan and just from riding

hard and long with my brother and friends. When I first started riding

in earnest in 88, I remember getting yelled at and it drilled into me to

only slowly accelerate when you get to the front, always smooth, no

sudden moves, etc.. we never weren't doing pacelines .. Its still like

a breath of fresh air every time I ride with my brother. But its hard

for people to learn here. Lots more climbing, lots more cars on the

biking roads... And to a large extent even I have lost the skill and

instinct of doing a proper paceline..   



What kills pacelines is any surging or slowing down. Typically its the

slowing down that causes the surging. People think they have to be

heros and do long pulls and don't even realize the speed decrease as

they start dying. The guy behind is as much to blame because he is

waiting for some Sign. NO Nooooo!! WRONG ! Your sign is when you are

recovered enough to go around or when you sense the speed dropping.

Thats your sign! DO NOT LET THE SPEED DROP!   ( this is describing a

racing paceline, not a "casual" paceline or a "hard century" paceline,

but works there too...) Of course if people don't know whats up then

the elbow shrug or head nod or moving over or if yu can move your ear

are necessary.



So for a small group, Say less then 6 or so.

-You initially must do quick pulls to establish relative strength of

riders ! (and to quickly open a gap on the pack if its a break you are

trying..) In other words if you are really strong, you will immediately

come through and pull (and start pulling longer). You will not let the

guy hang out there more then a couple seconds then BOOM ! you go around.

Don't wait for a sign. Your sign is you are in the Aerobic region.

Everyone has to take like under 10 seconds pulls initially. But then

lets say you are going 30 mph. Well Adam is maxing out, and can only

hold it for 4 seconds. But Bev senses Adam going anerobic, the pace is

just starting to drop, she comes around (but don't you dare jump because

you will lose Adam, and you need Adam). So Bev is strong, she slowing

increases the speed to 31 she is holding it there for 15 seconds and

then her pace starts dropping, So Charlie senses it and IMMEDIATLY

pulls through. And then Dan, etc.. Once you get settled in, you could

have one person doing just a couple seconds, and another pulling for 30

seconds plus...

-Never ever let the speed drop if you can help it. Pull through

immediately when you sense it. Now of course if you are all dying then

you will have to settle in.

-If you are weaker rider don't worry you are still very very valuable.

Even just a 2 second respite behind you is very significant for the

stronger riders ! It is MUCH much MUCH more important to maintain speed

then the length of your pull!

-drink / stand / stretch in the last spot.

-Leave room on the road to your protected side for the whole group. So

yes always pull off into the wind.

-Leave room for the guy behind you to come around. Rememeber he she

may come around at anytime maybe in mere seconds.

-If you are really dying, don't pull through at all, move over to the

wheel of the guy (gal) coming back (BEFORE they start looking for a

spot! they shouldn't even see you ! ) When you feel better you can jump

back in the mix. The point is to stay together, Not get dropped !

Don't keep pulling only to get dropped! that's stupid. Don't ever let a

gap develop.

-When you sense the person coming around, For GOD's Sake don't fight !

Why have two people in the wind?? IMMEDIATELY let up and get into some

draft. If you are really strong simply move into the line and pull

through immediately again and maybe pick the pace up slowly too while

you are at it (since you so strong).     



Big group echelons and rotating double pacelines:



- You have two pulls. One in the going forward line. Two is on the go

back line, while waiting for the guy/ gal to come over. You MUST wait

for that wheel before going backwards. You "owe" the whole line behind

you, Your draft. Your only salvation is to wait for that wheel.

Hopefully he or she is not super strong or doing a huge acceleration.

Because then you have too, too!   So two Pulls. So leave something for

that second pull.    

-NO gaps.

-No sudden accelerations. But of course you have to get up to speed.

(Sometimes I will let a gap grow a little to act like a buffer to a

sudden acceleration. that is, accelerate slowly so people behind me

aren't blown off the back. But I only do this if I am strong enough too

close the gap back up !!)

-But no sitting at the front and slowly-slowing down. THERE IS NOTHING

WORSE. Get the hell over, theres plenty of stronger people

rarin-at-the-bit behind you.

-At above 25 mph you MUST always be well protected (except for your 5-10

second pull). If you aren't, if you have a side wind hitting you, You

will die a quick death. Well unless you are mister or missus Time

trial.. If there is no road room left, You must form another echelon.

This is easy if others know whats going on. If not, you will have to

have a loud and convincing voice and do a In-Race training session (yes

I did this once with stranglers after getting dropped in a race in

Illinios, wicked side wind), AND we did catch back up to the front pack

(well only part of the pack was left), even though it was out of sight

and seemed impossible...

-With big groups, the two line rotating paceline (echelon) is necessary.

If you tried to slip back all by yourself, you want to get into

protection quickly but its a long way back there with a big group. So

if you go backwards too quickly then its hell to accelerate and latch

back on. But if you try to go back slowly, its hell out there for so

long all by yourself.     

-If you want to go faster, Rotate through faster. 5 second pulls! Keep

the speed up. Don't let it drop, get over, or come through before it

does.

-If there is a strong side wind, You have to overlap wheels to some

extent. Feel the wind on you face. position yourself where it is the

least.

-So ALWAYS ALWAYS assume there is someone overlapped beside you in a

bike race. Thus alway move to the side slowly.

    

Its been so long since I have done this properly, though, I have

forgotten some , the details may be wrong.

But really looking at it from the most basic level, you are trying to

conserve energy and use the group power most efficiently (which means

maxing everyone out but not blowing anyone). So Its simple. Nice tight

drafting and No slowing down / speeding up. No dropping anyone, the

stonger people pull longer. have fun be safe.









.David.Auker. wrote:

 





David Hart wrote:



 One thing that keeps it smooth is when you pull off the front into the

wind to retire, you don't overshoot the rider behind you, many were

pulling off 2 bike lengths ahead and that created a surge from the

retiring side. I do agree that the faster riders were pulling through

faster than the rider behind them and that created a gap.

One way to look at this, is you "owe" your rear wheel to the rider

that's waiting in the "go-back" line (of a double pace-line).





 Well, I think that is racing



It is, IF you are in a regular race, where you can psyche out other

riders, make 'em feel weak, by surging, giving extra work for the rider

that needs your shelter as you pull off...well, this ISN'T a "regular"

race...it's more like a team time trial, as you all are (should be)

working to catch/stay away. Save the hero stuff for the last couple of

laps. No nasty, just brotherhood/sisterhood/teamie.



 and myself and a few others knew we had to keep the pace above 27mph.

Some guys were slowing in the retiring field instead of keeping thier

speed. There is a lot of skill involved and I felt that it contributed

to your crash Mike. A lot of guys got sloppy for 2 seconds and it was

over. Don't overlap wheels! I saw that quite a few times.



It helps to yell 'Clear' and let the guy move off right in front of

you when he is done with his pull. Miscommunication make you work

harder.

Yeah, when you pull off, and you're waiting for the next rider to do

likewise, you want him not to dally. As soon as he can safely swing

over from the "go-line" to give you shelter, you say anything..."Clear,"



"OK," whatever...then it's up to you to nestle into his draft w/o

crashing, since you invited him to pull over on you.



 What was up with the attacking before we caught the 4's???



I urge for any advise to help everyone out, myself included. Just

don't share with the 1/2 field!



Shhhh! :-)



fyi: Back in the distant galaxy of the '70s, '80s, when downtubes had

friction shift-levers, PIR (called "Delta Park Racing Series") used to

be a handicap format, with the scratch race only occasionally. Fun to

have some variety. Thanks, Steve, Jeff!



David