Randy Dreiling

There is great 35+ BMX racing...you should see the

skills of a guy that has raced since 5 hahaha :)



--- Tim Coffey <coff-@ohsu.edu> wrote:



 Let's just start the road season in December. Hey,

and what about Master's BMX? Nobody seems to really

care about Master's BMX!!!



   <guinness-@aol.com> 09/16/05 11:43 AM >>>

Finally i am not the only one saying this. Growing

up back east the race season doesn't "officially"

begin until memorial day and then there are races

every weekend until labor day. With fields that are

always full that if you didn't preregister, you

didn't race. The early season training races began

the end of march.   Here in Oregon we have the

benefit of excellent summers that are alot more

pleasant to race in, as opposed to 100 degree temps

and 95 percent humidity.   But instead we choose to

race the majority of our road season in cold, rain

and snow. Just move the whole season up to start at

the end of march - beginning of April and not the

middle of February. We can keep the came races, in

the same order, just the whole schedule is moved

forward?   



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC <bra-@gmail.com>

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:23:23 +0000

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was

Summer Race Turn Out





Why don't we turn all the stage races into Omniums?



Seriously though, I'd personally be much more apt to

show up at Hood

River or Columbia Plateau for instance for a day or

two versus 3-4 days.





RCJoh-@attglobal.net wrote:

 

I have to second that opinion with a slightly

different take on the

 early season training - some of us enjoy other

late winter or early

 spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for

instance). Combined

 with responsibilities like job, family, etc.

there's just not enough

 hours in the day to prepare for an early and

highly demanding bike

 season. So, the current schedule works great if

you can focus

 exclusively on bike racing and have the time to

train early. The rest

 of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will

affect late season

 attendance attendance (as someone else pointed

out) but I think a more

 consistant race season will draw more of us out

that otherwise would

 have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day

road races throughout

 the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may

consider that you're

 trying to sell a product (your race) and the

customers (us racers) have

 a demand for that product that varies by

individual. Catering to only

 those who want the product early in the year

limits your market.

 

Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3

- 4 years and this last

  year it really hit home on how hard it is to get

adequate base miles in

  the legs so early in the year. We had a

miserable, seemingly endless

  winter out here in central Oregon and just when

the weather settled down

  and it was more of a pleasure to be out and

riding, nearly all the

  racing was completely done. If I lived in the

Portland area, I would

  definitely hit the midweek offerings, but

midweek races in the evenings

  with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do

it.

  

This is my question: Why or how did Oregon

racing become so much a

  winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I

realize that a couple

  road races have dotted the calendar after the

Cascade Classic, but why

  the long dead space after that. Summer starts

on June 21 and we have

  the Cascade stage soon after and then very

little. I want to thank the

  Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the

Bend High Desert as it

  was a great, great event. But it seems there's

plenty of weeks in July

  and August when nothing at all is going on. I

would actually make the 4

  hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if

they were held in July,

  when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com

Freyensee, James P

No way...part of the attraction to those races is that they are 'timed'

races. That is one reason why those races fill up. That is why people

all over the USA and even Canada, Mexico, and Europe come to our state

of Oregon to do these stage races. Pros do them, and for many of us, it

gives us a chance to race like the pros, if not feel like one. That is

the cool thing about this sport we do. Also, as I am sure we would like

to see the next successful Chris Horner or Lance Armstrong come through

the OBRA ranks, there is no way you can get better at timed stage races

other than doing them. Once you are a pro, your choice is either single

day classic races or timed stage races. Tell me what is a big-time

ominium event that the average everyday joe or even the cycling world

knows? Finally, changing stage races to ominiums hurts upgrading

possibilities. In the USCF and OBRA, you can earn upgrade points either

through one-day or one-stage events or through a GC placing. Changing

stages to ominiums and allowing people to pick-and-choose which races

they want to do hurt people who want to do the whole ominium stage

because there will be less people qualified to get an ominium place,

which means those placings may not count toward upgrade points. This

whole thread of race schedule was started partly on the basis that it is

hard enough for 3's to get upgrades for one reason or another.



There are ominium races out there too...Washington State Ominium, High

Desert. There is probably another one out there too that I missed.



A better solution is to keep the stage and ominiums as is (well, it

would be nice to see one stage race in the Washington, Oregon area to be

moved to July or August), and just strategically place a few roadraces

and crits in the July and August months, start the road racing season a

bit later, start the cyclo-cross racing a bit later (I mean, cyclo-cross

racers do want rain right? Might as well move the schedule a bit later

to increase the rain probability), give 3's more of their own category

whether that means do them in those strategically-placed roadraces in

July or August or do a few PIRs say maybe 2 a month in July and August

where there is just a cat 3 only field, and all of that should hopefully

take care of everything.



And oh yeah, and get Portlanders to travel out to more mtn. bike races

(and even a few of those longer road races like Bend) that aren't only 1

hour away from the city ;).







-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:23 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out



Why don't we turn all the stage races into Omniums?



Seriously though, I'd personally be much more apt to show up at Hood

River or Columbia Plateau for instance for a day or two versus 3-4 days.





RCJoh-@attglobal.net wrote:

 

I have to second that opinion with a slightly different take on the

early season training - some of us enjoy other late winter or early

spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for instance). Combined

with responsibilities like job, family, etc. there's just not enough

hours in the day to prepare for an early and highly demanding bike

season. So, the current schedule works great if you can focus

exclusively on bike racing and have the time to train early. The rest

 of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will affect late season

attendance attendance (as someone else pointed out) but I think a more

 consistant race season will draw more of us out that otherwise would

have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day road races

throughout

 the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may consider that you're

trying to sell a product (your race) and the customers (us racers)

have

 a demand for that product that varies by individual. Catering to only

 those who want the product early in the year limits your market.



Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this

last

  year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles

in

  the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly

endless

  winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled

down

  and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I

would

  definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the

evenings

  with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but

why

  the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we

have

  the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank

the

  Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as

it

  was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in

July

  and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make

the 4

  hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in

July,

  when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Brad Cockman, DC

George, I'm just saying that there are a LOT of racers out there that

either a) don't have the time to commit to a full blown stage race b)

don't like RR's c) don't like crits d) hate TT's or don't own a TT bike,

etc... If it's a 3 stage omnium chances are good you're not going to win

overall if you don't do the whole race. On the other hand you could

still finish on the podum while missing one stage if you had two strong

performances, especially if they follow a TT, RR, Crit type of format.



For the record (unofficially at this point), we are bumping Cascade to

the third week in July so we can have all the categories race the

downtown crit on Saturday. We most likely will not do an Old Mill crit

due to construction and scheduling issues. Most likely it will be

replaced with a circuit or RR. We're currently scouting out new road

courses. The Sunriver cutoff and other forest service roads will be

under construction too so we'll have to find alternatives for the

Bachelor stages.





Schreck, George wrote:

 The problem with that proposal is that the omnium riders who do not ride

all the stages become factors on the stage race due to their freshness,

and they can skew the stage race results. The point of a stage race is

that all of the competitors at each stage have suffered to the same

extent and conditioning and recovery is part of the race.



Also, these races are difficult and expensive to promote, and it would

be more difficult if the promoter does not have a known number of

riders. If anything, allowing riders to avoid stages would probably

shift a number of riders from the stage race to the omnium, thus making

it even more uncertain and confusing.



Rather than restructure the stage races, it would be good to have other

races on some of the weekends in between. Unfortunately, the Mt Tabor

race was held on the same weekend as Elkhorn, which only made the

situation that much worse. Rather than have a succession of races every

weekend in the February through April timeframe, it would be nice if

some of them were in the summer. One of the reasons why I think the

numbers drop off in late summer is that many people are burned out by

then. By mid summer I have been racing since the middle of February,

and with a couple of stage races as well, I tend to be worn out.



On the other hand, I appreciate the effort of the promoters to even have

the races, and am thankful that they exist at all. I would rather race

in the spring than not race at all.



________________________________



From: Pat Sagers [mailto:pat.s-@alldata.net]

Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 12:44 PM

To: bra-@gmail.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out





Brad,



I really like your idea of the stage race / Omnium option. The

promoters could charge more on a per click basis for those who are only

doing one event. The money and awards could be directed more towards

the folks who do the full package. I am getting to a stage in my life

where getting ready for 3 days/ 4 events is becoming just too much of a

burden. Add that these races pull top riders and teams from 4 or 5

states and I basically get my behind whipped pretty good. Two years ago

I road the Elkhorn for the first time and I spent the last day riding by

myself after the first hard climb - 70 miles. I don't know if the

results would have been different with fresh legs but maybe there

wouldn't be so many dnf's and dns's on that day. Just a thought.



Perhaps the stage race promoters can see obvious reasons not to do this.

I could for the Masters class at the Cascade Classic. I think 110+

started and the final tally listed 65 riders. If that was turned into

an Omnium, I doubt the last days event, the Crit, would be well

attended. I think the Masters road the Crit faster than the Pros did.

Also the circuit race is not a course for the faint in heart. So my

estimation would be fewer signups for the TT, a lot or more for the road

race, fewer for the circuit and very few for the crit. But then again,

the crit could pull all the very talented crit riders that just don't

like riding over mountains first.



But for a race like Elkhorn, I'd love to be a spectator on day 2 while

competing in days 1 and 3.



Pat



________________________________



From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Fri 9/16/2005 2:23 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out







Why don't we turn all the stage races into Omniums?



Seriously though, I'd personally be much more apt to show up at Hood

River or Columbia Plateau for instance for a day or two versus 3-4 days.





RCJoh-@attglobal.net wrote:

 

I have to second that opinion with a slightly different take on the

early season training - some of us enjoy other late winter or early

spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for instance). Combined

with responsibilities like job, family, etc. there's just not enough

hours in the day to prepare for an early and highly demanding bike

season. So, the current schedule works great if you can focus

exclusively on bike racing and have the time to train early. The rest

of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will affect late season

attendance attendance (as someone else pointed out) but I think a more

consistant race season will draw more of us out that otherwise would

have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day road races

throughout

 the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may consider that you're

trying to sell a product (your race) and the customers (us racers)

have

 a demand for that product that varies by individual. Catering to only

those who want the product early in the year limits your market.



Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this

last

  year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles

in

  the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly

endless

  winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled

down

  and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I

would

  definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the

evenings

  with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but

why

  the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we

have

  the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank

the

  Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as

it

  was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in

July

  and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make

the 4

  hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in

July,

  when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------------





This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone

else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,

distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received

this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and

destroy all copies.



==============================================================================

Tim Coffey

Let's just start the road season in December. Hey, and what about Master's BMX? Nobody seems to really care about Master's BMX!!!



   <guinness-@aol.com> 09/16/05 11:43 AM >>>

Finally i am not the only one saying this. Growing up back east the race season doesn't "officially" begin until memorial day and then there are races every weekend until labor day. With fields that are always full that if you didn't preregister, you didn't race. The early season training races began the end of march.   Here in Oregon we have the benefit of excellent summers that are alot more pleasant to race in, as opposed to 100 degree temps and 95 percent humidity.   But instead we choose to race the majority of our road season in cold, rain and snow. Just move the whole season up to start at the end of march - beginning of April and not the middle of February. We can keep the came races, in the same order, just the whole schedule is moved forward?   



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC <bra-@gmail.com>

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:23:23 +0000

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out





Why don't we turn all the stage races into Omniums?



Seriously though, I'd personally be much more apt to show up at Hood

River or Columbia Plateau for instance for a day or two versus 3-4 days.





RCJoh-@attglobal.net wrote:

 

I have to second that opinion with a slightly different take on the

early season training - some of us enjoy other late winter or early

spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for instance). Combined

with responsibilities like job, family, etc. there's just not enough

hours in the day to prepare for an early and highly demanding bike

season. So, the current schedule works great if you can focus

exclusively on bike racing and have the time to train early. The rest

of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will affect late season

attendance attendance (as someone else pointed out) but I think a more

consistant race season will draw more of us out that otherwise would

have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day road races throughout

the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may consider that you're

trying to sell a product (your race) and the customers (us racers) have

a demand for that product that varies by individual. Catering to only

those who want the product early in the year limits your market.



Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this last

year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles in

the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly endless

winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled down

and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I would

definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the evenings

with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but why

the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we have

the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank the

Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as it

was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in July

and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make the 4

hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in July,

when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

RCJoh-@attglobal.net

"We are incredibly fortunate to have such mild weather that allows us to

train in the winter."



Sounds like someone who lives in the valley... for some December and

January means ice training and insulated water bottles to keep them from

freezing solid while you ride.







lormor-@gmail.com wrote:

 Having raced in the Midwest, East Coast and Northwest regions I can

honestly

say I believe the NW has it right. If you are training to be a serious

cyclist, you have the opportunity to race and get in shape early for

some of

the early NRC events like Sea Otter and Redlands. If you are just racing

for

fun and fitness there are plenty of options throughout the year to wet

your

pallette. Not to mention, there is A LOT of variety in NW racing. On the



East Coach it's mostly crits with very few stage races or road races. I

think it would be absurd to ask race organisers who have established

spring

training series to shift their whole set-up b/c a few people can't ride

outside in the rain during December and January. We are incredibly

fortunate

to have such mild weather that allows us to train in the winter.

The solution is not to move the races later in the year. The solution,

if

you think there is a problem, is to step-up and hold races during the

time

you want to race. Not to mention, there are plenty of races in

Washington, a

state of excellent racing generally ignored by Oregon racers.

Lastly, I would like to mention, that because the season starts in late

February does not mean YOU have to start your season in late February.

No

one is forcing you to go out there and race so early in the year.

My 2-3 cents...





On 9/16/05, columbia-@comcast.net <columbia-@comcast.net>

wrote:

 

I have been racing in Oregon since the mid-70s and back when I started

the

season went from early to mid March through September and I don't

remember

any early season bias, like there is today. In fact, I was never in good



shape until at least June. Somehow over the years, the season has

shifted

earlier. I think the main reason is that after the winter, riders are

psyched to start racing and so everyone shows up at the early races,

ready

to GO. This just feeds on itself because if everybody else is starting

early, then I'd better start early. The next think you know everybody is



doing serious training in January or before. I think the early race

turnouts

were pretty good back in the late 70's and early 80's, but I think most

riders considered them mostly training races. Now it seems riders key on



them.

I don't know what the solution is, if people want there to be one. I

think it will ultimately depend on the riders 'voting' with their entry

fees

by choosing when they want to attend events.

Mark Schwyhart, Promoter of the Columbia Plateau Stage Race



-----Original Message-----

*From:* guinness-@aol.com [mailto:guinness-@aol.com]

*Sent:* 09/16/2005 11:44 AM

*To:* ob-@topica.com

*Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn

Out



Finally i am not the only one saying this. Growing up back east the race



season doesn't "officially" begin until memorial day and then there are

races every weekend until labor day. With fields that are always full

that

if you didn't preregister, you didn't race. The early season training

races

began the end of march. Here in Oregon we have the benefit of excellent

summers that are alot more pleasant to race in, as opposed to 100 degree



temps and 95 percent humidity. But instead we choose to race the

majority

of our road season in cold, rain and snow. Just move the whole season up

to

start at the end of march - beginning of April and not the middle of

February. We can keep the came races, in the same order, just the whole

schedule is moved forward?



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC <bra-@gmail.com <http://gmail.com/>>

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:23:23 +0000

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out



Why don't we turn all the stage races into Omniums?



Seriously though, I'd personally be much more apt to show up at Hood

River or Columbia Plateau for instance for a day or two versus 3-4 days.



RCJoh-@attglobal.net <RCJohnson1%40attglobal.net> wrote:

 

I have to second that opinion with a slightly different take on the

early season training - some of us enjoy other late winter or early

spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for instance). Combined

with responsibilities like job, family, etc. there's just not enough

hours in the day to prepare for an early and highly demanding bike

season. So, the current schedule works great if you can focus

exclusively on bike racing and have the time to train early. The rest

of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will affect late season

attendance attendance (as someone else pointed out) but I think a more

consistant race season will draw more of us out that otherwise would

have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day road races throughout

the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may consider that you're

trying to sell a product (your race) and the customers (us racers) have

a demand for that product that varies by individual. Catering to only

those who want the product early in the year limits your market.



Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this last

year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles in

the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly endless

winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled down

and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I would

definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the evenings

with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but why

the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we have

the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank the

Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as it

was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in July

and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make the 4

hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in July,

when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com

<obra%40topica.com>.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

<cmurray%40obra.org>

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<obra-unsubscribe%40topica.com>



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Schreck, George

The problem with that proposal is that the omnium riders who do not ride

all the stages become factors on the stage race due to their freshness,

and they can skew the stage race results. The point of a stage race is

that all of the competitors at each stage have suffered to the same

extent and conditioning and recovery is part of the race.



Also, these races are difficult and expensive to promote, and it would

be more difficult if the promoter does not have a known number of

riders. If anything, allowing riders to avoid stages would probably

shift a number of riders from the stage race to the omnium, thus making

it even more uncertain and confusing.



Rather than restructure the stage races, it would be good to have other

races on some of the weekends in between. Unfortunately, the Mt Tabor

race was held on the same weekend as Elkhorn, which only made the

situation that much worse. Rather than have a succession of races every

weekend in the February through April timeframe, it would be nice if

some of them were in the summer. One of the reasons why I think the

numbers drop off in late summer is that many people are burned out by

then. By mid summer I have been racing since the middle of February,

and with a couple of stage races as well, I tend to be worn out.



On the other hand, I appreciate the effort of the promoters to even have

the races, and am thankful that they exist at all. I would rather race

in the spring than not race at all.



________________________________



From: Pat Sagers [mailto:pat.s-@alldata.net]

Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 12:44 PM

To: bra-@gmail.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out





Brad,



I really like your idea of the stage race / Omnium option. The

promoters could charge more on a per click basis for those who are only

doing one event. The money and awards could be directed more towards

the folks who do the full package. I am getting to a stage in my life

where getting ready for 3 days/ 4 events is becoming just too much of a

burden. Add that these races pull top riders and teams from 4 or 5

states and I basically get my behind whipped pretty good. Two years ago

I road the Elkhorn for the first time and I spent the last day riding by

myself after the first hard climb - 70 miles. I don't know if the

results would have been different with fresh legs but maybe there

wouldn't be so many dnf's and dns's on that day. Just a thought.



Perhaps the stage race promoters can see obvious reasons not to do this.

I could for the Masters class at the Cascade Classic. I think 110+

started and the final tally listed 65 riders. If that was turned into

an Omnium, I doubt the last days event, the Crit, would be well

attended. I think the Masters road the Crit faster than the Pros did.

Also the circuit race is not a course for the faint in heart. So my

estimation would be fewer signups for the TT, a lot or more for the road

race, fewer for the circuit and very few for the crit. But then again,

the crit could pull all the very talented crit riders that just don't

like riding over mountains first.



But for a race like Elkhorn, I'd love to be a spectator on day 2 while

competing in days 1 and 3.



Pat



________________________________



From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Fri 9/16/2005 2:23 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out







Why don't we turn all the stage races into Omniums?



Seriously though, I'd personally be much more apt to show up at Hood

River or Columbia Plateau for instance for a day or two versus 3-4 days.





RCJoh-@attglobal.net wrote:

 

I have to second that opinion with a slightly different take on the

early season training - some of us enjoy other late winter or early

spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for instance). Combined

with responsibilities like job, family, etc. there's just not enough

hours in the day to prepare for an early and highly demanding bike

season. So, the current schedule works great if you can focus

exclusively on bike racing and have the time to train early. The rest

of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will affect late season

attendance attendance (as someone else pointed out) but I think a more

consistant race season will draw more of us out that otherwise would

have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day road races

throughout

 the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may consider that you're

trying to sell a product (your race) and the customers (us racers)

have

 a demand for that product that varies by individual. Catering to only

those who want the product early in the year limits your market.



Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this

last

  year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles

in

  the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly

endless

  winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled

down

  and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I

would

  definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the

evenings

  with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but

why

  the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we

have

  the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank

the

  Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as

it

  was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in

July

  and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make

the 4

  hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in

July,

  when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



==============================================================================

lormor-@gmail.com

Having raced in the Midwest, East Coast and Northwest regions I can honestly

say I believe the NW has it right. If you are training to be a serious

cyclist, you have the opportunity to race and get in shape early for some of

the early NRC events like Sea Otter and Redlands. If you are just racing for

fun and fitness there are plenty of options throughout the year to wet your

pallette. Not to mention, there is A LOT of variety in NW racing. On the

East Coach it's mostly crits with very few stage races or road races. I

think it would be absurd to ask race organisers who have established spring

training series to shift their whole set-up b/c a few people can't ride

outside in the rain during December and January. We are incredibly fortunate

to have such mild weather that allows us to train in the winter.

The solution is not to move the races later in the year. The solution, if

you think there is a problem, is to step-up and hold races during the time

you want to race. Not to mention, there are plenty of races in Washington, a

state of excellent racing generally ignored by Oregon racers.

Lastly, I would like to mention, that because the season starts in late

February does not mean YOU have to start your season in late February. No

one is forcing you to go out there and race so early in the year.

My 2-3 cents...





On 9/16/05, columbia-@comcast.net <columbia-@comcast.net>

wrote:

 

I have been racing in Oregon since the mid-70s and back when I started the

season went from early to mid March through September and I don't remember

any early season bias, like there is today. In fact, I was never in good

shape until at least June. Somehow over the years, the season has shifted

earlier. I think the main reason is that after the winter, riders are

psyched to start racing and so everyone shows up at the early races, ready

to GO. This just feeds on itself because if everybody else is starting

early, then I'd better start early. The next think you know everybody is

doing serious training in January or before. I think the early race turnouts

were pretty good back in the late 70's and early 80's, but I think most

riders considered them mostly training races. Now it seems riders key on

them.

I don't know what the solution is, if people want there to be one. I

think it will ultimately depend on the riders 'voting' with their entry fees

by choosing when they want to attend events.

Mark Schwyhart, Promoter of the Columbia Plateau Stage Race



-----Original Message-----

*From:* guinness-@aol.com [mailto:guinness-@aol.com]

*Sent:* 09/16/2005 11:44 AM

*To:* ob-@topica.com

*Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out



Finally i am not the only one saying this. Growing up back east the race

season doesn't "officially" begin until memorial day and then there are

races every weekend until labor day. With fields that are always full that

if you didn't preregister, you didn't race. The early season training races

began the end of march. Here in Oregon we have the benefit of excellent

summers that are alot more pleasant to race in, as opposed to 100 degree

temps and 95 percent humidity. But instead we choose to race the majority

of our road season in cold, rain and snow. Just move the whole season up to

start at the end of march - beginning of April and not the middle of

February. We can keep the came races, in the same order, just the whole

schedule is moved forward?



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC <bra-@gmail.com <http://gmail.com/>>

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:23:23 +0000

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out



Why don't we turn all the stage races into Omniums?



Seriously though, I'd personally be much more apt to show up at Hood

River or Columbia Plateau for instance for a day or two versus 3-4 days.



RCJoh-@attglobal.net <RCJohnson1%40attglobal.net> wrote:

 

I have to second that opinion with a slightly different take on the

early season training - some of us enjoy other late winter or early

spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for instance). Combined

with responsibilities like job, family, etc. there's just not enough

hours in the day to prepare for an early and highly demanding bike

season. So, the current schedule works great if you can focus

exclusively on bike racing and have the time to train early. The rest

of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will affect late season

attendance attendance (as someone else pointed out) but I think a more

consistant race season will draw more of us out that otherwise would

have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day road races throughout

the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may consider that you're

trying to sell a product (your race) and the customers (us racers) have

a demand for that product that varies by individual. Catering to only

those who want the product early in the year limits your market.



Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this last

year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles in

the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly endless

winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled down

and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I would

definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the evenings

with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but why

the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we have

the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank the

Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as it

was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in July

and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make the 4

hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in July,

when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com <obra%40topica.com>.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org <cmurray%40obra.org>

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com <obra-unsubscribe%40topica.com>



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Sagers, Pat

Brad,



I really like your idea of the stage race / Omnium option. The promoters could charge more on a per click basis for those who are only doing one event. The money and awards could be directed more towards the folks who do the full package. I am getting to a stage in my life where getting ready for 3 days/ 4 events is becoming just too much of a burden. Add that these races pull top riders and teams from 4 or 5 states and I basically get my behind whipped pretty good. Two years ago I road the Elkhorn for the first time and I spent the last day riding by myself after the first hard climb - 70 miles. I don't know if the results would have been different with fresh legs but maybe there wouldn't be so many dnf's and dns's on that day. Just a thought.



Perhaps the stage race promoters can see obvious reasons not to do this. I could for the Masters class at the Cascade Classic. I think 110+ started and the final tally listed 65 riders. If that was turned into an Omnium, I doubt the last days event, the Crit, would be well attended. I think the Masters road the Crit faster than the Pros did. Also the circuit race is not a course for the faint in heart. So my estimation would be fewer signups for the TT, a lot or more for the road race, fewer for the circuit and very few for the crit. But then again, the crit could pull all the very talented crit riders that just don't like riding over mountains first.



But for a race like Elkhorn, I'd love to be a spectator on day 2 while competing in days 1 and 3.



Pat



________________________________



From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Fri 9/16/2005 2:23 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out







Why don't we turn all the stage races into Omniums?



Seriously though, I'd personally be much more apt to show up at Hood

River or Columbia Plateau for instance for a day or two versus 3-4 days.





RCJoh-@attglobal.net wrote:

 

I have to second that opinion with a slightly different take on the

early season training - some of us enjoy other late winter or early

spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for instance). Combined

with responsibilities like job, family, etc. there's just not enough

hours in the day to prepare for an early and highly demanding bike

season. So, the current schedule works great if you can focus

exclusively on bike racing and have the time to train early. The rest

of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will affect late season

attendance attendance (as someone else pointed out) but I think a more

consistant race season will draw more of us out that otherwise would

have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day road races throughout

the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may consider that you're

trying to sell a product (your race) and the customers (us racers) have

a demand for that product that varies by individual. Catering to only

those who want the product early in the year limits your market.



Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this last

year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles in

the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly endless

winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled down

and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I would

definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the evenings

with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but why

the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we have

the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank the

Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as it

was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in July

and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make the 4

hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in July,

when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

columbia-@comcast.net

I have been racing in Oregon since the mid-70s and back when I started the

season went from early to mid March through September and I don't remember

any early season bias, like there is today. In fact, I was never in good

shape until at least June. Somehow over the years, the season has shifted

earlier. I think the main reason is that after the winter, riders are

psyched to start racing and so everyone shows up at the early races, ready

to GO. This just feeds on itself because if everybody else is starting

early, then I'd better start early. The next think you know everybody is

doing serious training in January or before. I think the early race

turnouts were pretty good back in the late 70's and early 80's, but I think

most riders considered them mostly training races. Now it seems riders key

on them.



I don't know what the solution is, if people want there to be one. I think

it will ultimately depend on the riders 'voting' with their entry fees by

choosing when they want to attend events.



Mark Schwyhart, Promoter of the Columbia Plateau Stage Race

-----Original Message-----

From: guinness-@aol.com [mailto:guinness-@aol.com]

Sent: 09/16/2005 11:44 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out





Finally i am not the only one saying this. Growing up back east the race

season doesn't "officially" begin until memorial day and then there are

races every weekend until labor day. With fields that are always full that

if you didn't preregister, you didn't race. The early season training races

began the end of march.   Here in Oregon we have the benefit of excellent

summers that are alot more pleasant to race in, as opposed to 100 degree

temps and 95 percent humidity.   But instead we choose to race the majority

of our road season in cold, rain and snow. Just move the whole season up to

start at the end of march - beginning of April and not the middle of

February. We can keep the came races, in the same order, just the whole

schedule is moved forward?



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC <bra-@gmail.com>

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:23:23 +0000

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out





Why don't we turn all the stage races into Omniums?



Seriously though, I'd personally be much more apt to show up at Hood

River or Columbia Plateau for instance for a day or two versus 3-4 days.





RCJoh-@attglobal.net wrote:

 

I have to second that opinion with a slightly different take on the

early season training - some of us enjoy other late winter or early

spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for instance). Combined

with responsibilities like job, family, etc. there's just not enough

hours in the day to prepare for an early and highly demanding bike

season. So, the current schedule works great if you can focus

exclusively on bike racing and have the time to train early. The rest

of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will affect late season

attendance attendance (as someone else pointed out) but I think a more

consistant race season will draw more of us out that otherwise would

have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day road races throughout

the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may consider that you're

trying to sell a product (your race) and the customers (us racers) have

a demand for that product that varies by individual. Catering to only

those who want the product early in the year limits your market.



Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this last

year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles in

the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly endless

winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled down

and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I would

definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the evenings

with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but why

the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we have

the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank the

Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as it

was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in July

and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make the 4

hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in July,

when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to

guinness-@aol.com

Finally i am not the only one saying this. Growing up back east the race season doesn't "officially" begin until memorial day and then there are races every weekend until labor day. With fields that are always full that if you didn't preregister, you didn't race. The early season training races began the end of march.   Here in Oregon we have the benefit of excellent summers that are alot more pleasant to race in, as opposed to 100 degree temps and 95 percent humidity.   But instead we choose to race the majority of our road season in cold, rain and snow. Just move the whole season up to start at the end of march - beginning of April and not the middle of February. We can keep the came races, in the same order, just the whole schedule is moved forward?   



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC <bra-@gmail.com>

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:23:23 +0000

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out





Why don't we turn all the stage races into Omniums?



Seriously though, I'd personally be much more apt to show up at Hood

River or Columbia Plateau for instance for a day or two versus 3-4 days.





RCJoh-@attglobal.net wrote:

 

I have to second that opinion with a slightly different take on the

early season training - some of us enjoy other late winter or early

spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for instance). Combined

with responsibilities like job, family, etc. there's just not enough

hours in the day to prepare for an early and highly demanding bike

season. So, the current schedule works great if you can focus

exclusively on bike racing and have the time to train early. The rest

of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will affect late season

attendance attendance (as someone else pointed out) but I think a more

consistant race season will draw more of us out that otherwise would

have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day road races throughout

the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may consider that you're

trying to sell a product (your race) and the customers (us racers) have

a demand for that product that varies by individual. Catering to only

those who want the product early in the year limits your market.



Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this last

year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles in

the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly endless

winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled down

and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I would

definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the evenings

with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but why

the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we have

the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank the

Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as it

was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in July

and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make the 4

hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in July,

when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Brad Cockman, DC

Why don't we turn all the stage races into Omniums?



Seriously though, I'd personally be much more apt to show up at Hood

River or Columbia Plateau for instance for a day or two versus 3-4 days.





RCJoh-@attglobal.net wrote:

 

I have to second that opinion with a slightly different take on the

early season training - some of us enjoy other late winter or early

spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for instance). Combined

with responsibilities like job, family, etc. there's just not enough

hours in the day to prepare for an early and highly demanding bike

season. So, the current schedule works great if you can focus

exclusively on bike racing and have the time to train early. The rest

of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will affect late season

attendance attendance (as someone else pointed out) but I think a more

consistant race season will draw more of us out that otherwise would

have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day road races throughout

the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may consider that you're

trying to sell a product (your race) and the customers (us racers) have

a demand for that product that varies by individual. Catering to only

those who want the product early in the year limits your market.



Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this last

year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles in

the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly endless

winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled down

and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I would

definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the evenings

with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but why

the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we have

the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank the

Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as it

was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in July

and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make the 4

hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in July,

when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

RCJoh-@attglobal.net

I have to second that opinion with a slightly different take on the

early season training - some of us enjoy other late winter or early

spring activities (skiing or mountaineering for instance). Combined

with responsibilities like job, family, etc. there's just not enough

hours in the day to prepare for an early and highly demanding bike

season. So, the current schedule works great if you can focus

exclusively on bike racing and have the time to train early. The rest

of us often wind up just getting discouraged.

Yes, there are other summer activities that will affect late season

attendance attendance (as someone else pointed out) but I think a more

consistant race season will draw more of us out that otherwise would

have to wait out the summer duldrums.

I enjoyed the HDRR and if there were more one day road races throughout

the summer I'd attend more. You promoters may consider that you're

trying to sell a product (your race) and the customers (us racers) have

a demand for that product that varies by individual. Catering to only

those who want the product early in the year limits your market.



Rick





Sagers, Pat wrote:

 I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this last

year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles in

the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly endless

winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled down

and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I would

definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the evenings

with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but why

the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we have

the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank the

Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as it

was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in July

and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make the 4

hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in July,

when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554

Peter Murphy

I've often wondered the same thing...also why are the Championships so

early?



Pete Murphy



If you wanted to get somewhere and it took you

a long time to get there, would you wanna rush back here?

I didn't think so....Frank Black















 From: Pat Sagers <pat.s-@alldata.net>

Reply-To: pat.s-@alldata.net

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] History perspective - was Summer Race Turn Out

Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:53:40 -0400



I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this last

year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles in

the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly endless

winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled down

and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I would

definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the evenings

with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but why

the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we have

the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank the

Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as it

was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in July

and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make the 4

hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in July,

when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554





To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Sagers, Pat

I have been road racing a little for the last 3 - 4 years and this last

year it really hit home on how hard it is to get adequate base miles in

the legs so early in the year. We had a miserable, seemingly endless

winter out here in central Oregon and just when the weather settled down

and it was more of a pleasure to be out and riding, nearly all the

racing was completely done. If I lived in the Portland area, I would

definitely hit the midweek offerings, but midweek races in the evenings

with a 3 hour drive is a killer. Just can't do it.



This is my question: Why or how did Oregon racing become so much a

winter/spring sport and not a summer sport? I realize that a couple

road races have dotted the calendar after the Cascade Classic, but why

the long dead space after that. Summer starts on June 21 and we have

the Cascade stage soon after and then very little. I want to thank the

Plummer's and everyone else who helped with the Bend High Desert as it

was a great, great event. But it seems there's plenty of weeks in July

and August when nothing at all is going on. I would actually make the 4

hour each way trips to the Banana Belt series if they were held in July,

when it's dry and warm.



Thanks



Pat Sagers



ITS Systems Support

Alliance Data Systems

(541) 389-0120 x1554