PIR Handicap splits

Ken Morton

2005-09-21



Your right on one thing Luciano, I'm getting schooled in circuit bike

racing! :-)



Learning new skills is good - I've got LOTS to learn yet about bike

riding much less bike racing. I DO apreciate Steve and the Nomads for

putting on these races. On the other hand, there is a lot of

frustration in knowing that without the entire group working together

there is no way your going to finish in the top 15.



Put another way, in the "normal" PIR races if I did not finish in the

top 15, I could pretty much say it was because *I* was not strong

enough on that day. In the handicap races, it depends on everyone

racing my cat. I'm not saying it's BAD, I'm saying it's different, and

to this new-ish racer, a little frustrating. In last nights race for

instance, the person riding with me in rotation consistantly went 3-4

bike lengths in front of the receding line on his pull. Do I follow his

wheel, causing a surge, or do I let him go and maintain speed? (for the

most part, I chose the latter). He never yelled "clear" or "last", and

in general really caused everyone else to work harder for less results.

But I cannot affect that. He's not a team mate, he's not a friend

(although he is friendly) and I'm not an upper cat rider, so I don't

feel I can "coach" him either.



My other option is to move to the cat 4,3,1-2 race. Then I get to be

chased, and have some chance of staying with the pack. My moving would

not help the cat 4,5 race though.



Like I said, this was just morning after whining. It wasn't meant as a

rant against the format or the promotors, just a whine that I'm not

doing as well as I'd like. I'll be back next week for more punishment

... errr fun.



Ken



--- Luciano bailey <ride-@hotmail.com> wrote:



 You called it size of the groups might have had something to do with

it. A

larger smooth working group is sharing a lighter rotation load, and

this

happened in both the womens and the 4-5. Candi made some size

adjustments

which helped. I think everyone getting an opportunity to race the

handicap

is getting a first class education in curcuit bike racing. Thanxs to

nomads

and Steve Mullen for putting this on. I would like to see this format

kept

if not full time, but a night out of the PIRS from the beginning of

the

season.





 From: scmu-@aol.com

Reply-To: scmu-@aol.com

To: k7f-@yahoo.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR Handicap splits

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:01:30 -0400



Ken,

You make a valid point. In fact, I suspect some of the category 5

riders

 are not only stronger than many of the category 4 riders, but may

also be

 stronger than many of the category 2 and 3 riders.



The theory with handicap racing, however, is with more experience,

the

 group should be more efficient. If a group works well together, it

will

 easily overtake a group of stronger riders that are not working well



 together. What I saw last night, was a group of cat 5 riders

working very

 well together. Their pace line was smooth. They were calling

"clear!" at

 the front, and seemed to be filling gaps at the back. They also had

more

 riders. But that frequently only makes it more difficult to keep

the lines

 tight.



I would like to stay with the same handicap next week. Candi will

make the

 final decision, at the starting line, but I believe 1:30 is a

reasonable

 handicap between the cat 4's and 5's. John Bravard coached the cat

5 group

 this week, and has already asked if he can focus on working with the

cat

 4's next week. If necessary, a few more cat 5 riders will be pulled

into

 the cat 4 group to keep the numbers even. But I expect to see an

entirely

 different chase next week!



Looking forward to seeing everyone next week! Remember, next week

is the

 final race of the series. Prizes will be awarded immediately after

each

 race, so be sure to stick around!



Steven Mullen.

PIR Handicap Race Promoter.





-----Original Message-----

From: Ken Morton <k7f-@yahoo.com>

To: scmu-@aol.com; ob-@topica.com

Sent: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR Handicap splits





 The cat 5 men returned to the same form they exhibited two weeks

ago,

  easily holding off the cat 4 men.



The cat 4 men had no chance, IMHO. Depite great coaching by Casey

Deck

 (thank you!) we lost time on the first two laps. The cat 5 field was

huge, compared to the (original) 8 cat 4 riders. Candy had some cat

5's

 come back to help, and shortened the split to 1:05 (I think) but it

was

 still to long of a split, again IMHO. I dropped off after 3 laps

(I'm

 using Saturdays race as an excuse; no legs) and rode the last 3 by

myself; I think I heard the final cat 4 group was down to 5 or 6

riders. Ouch.



My understanding is that the only real difference between a cat 5

and a

 cat 4 is the number of starts you have made; there is _no_

performance

 criteria to become (or move up to) a Cat 4. Theoretically, and in

fact,

 many of the Cat 5 riders are as strong as Cat 4 riders; they have

just

 not done 10 mass starts.



Just my whiny next-morning ramblings. I'd like to see the gap kept

at

 45 seconds or less, so we at least _feel_ like we have a chance of

catching the 5's.



Ken





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Luciano bailey

2005-09-21



You called it size of the groups might have had something to do with it. A

larger smooth working group is sharing a lighter rotation load, and this

happened in both the womens and the 4-5. Candi made some size adjustments

which helped. I think everyone getting an opportunity to race the handicap

is getting a first class education in curcuit bike racing. Thanxs to nomads

and Steve Mullen for putting this on. I would like to see this format kept

if not full time, but a night out of the PIRS from the beginning of the

season.





 From: scmu-@aol.com

Reply-To: scmu-@aol.com

To: k7f-@yahoo.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR Handicap splits

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:01:30 -0400



Ken,

You make a valid point. In fact, I suspect some of the category 5 riders

are not only stronger than many of the category 4 riders, but may also be

stronger than many of the category 2 and 3 riders.



The theory with handicap racing, however, is with more experience, the

group should be more efficient. If a group works well together, it will

easily overtake a group of stronger riders that are not working well

together. What I saw last night, was a group of cat 5 riders working very

well together. Their pace line was smooth. They were calling "clear!" at

the front, and seemed to be filling gaps at the back. They also had more

riders. But that frequently only makes it more difficult to keep the lines

tight.



I would like to stay with the same handicap next week. Candi will make the

final decision, at the starting line, but I believe 1:30 is a reasonable

handicap between the cat 4's and 5's. John Bravard coached the cat 5 group

this week, and has already asked if he can focus on working with the cat

4's next week. If necessary, a few more cat 5 riders will be pulled into

the cat 4 group to keep the numbers even. But I expect to see an entirely

different chase next week!



Looking forward to seeing everyone next week! Remember, next week is the

final race of the series. Prizes will be awarded immediately after each

race, so be sure to stick around!



Steven Mullen.

PIR Handicap Race Promoter.





-----Original Message-----

From: Ken Morton <k7f-@yahoo.com>

To: scmu-@aol.com; ob-@topica.com

Sent: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR Handicap splits





 The cat 5 men returned to the same form they exhibited two weeks ago,

easily holding off the cat 4 men.



The cat 4 men had no chance, IMHO. Depite great coaching by Casey Deck

(thank you!) we lost time on the first two laps. The cat 5 field was

huge, compared to the (original) 8 cat 4 riders. Candy had some cat 5's

come back to help, and shortened the split to 1:05 (I think) but it was

still to long of a split, again IMHO. I dropped off after 3 laps (I'm

using Saturdays race as an excuse; no legs) and rode the last 3 by

myself; I think I heard the final cat 4 group was down to 5 or 6

riders. Ouch.



My understanding is that the only real difference between a cat 5 and a

cat 4 is the number of starts you have made; there is _no_ performance

criteria to become (or move up to) a Cat 4. Theoretically, and in fact,

many of the Cat 5 riders are as strong as Cat 4 riders; they have just

not done 10 mass starts.



Just my whiny next-morning ramblings. I'd like to see the gap kept at

45 seconds or less, so we at least _feel_ like we have a chance of

catching the 5's.



Ken



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scmu-@aol.com

2005-09-21



Ken,

You make a valid point. In fact, I suspect some of the category 5

riders are not only stronger than many of the category 4 riders, but

may also be stronger than many of the category 2 and 3 riders.



The theory with handicap racing, however, is with more experience, the

group should be more efficient. If a group works well together, it

will easily overtake a group of stronger riders that are not working

well together. What I saw last night, was a group of cat 5 riders

working very well together. Their pace line was smooth. They were

calling "clear!" at the front, and seemed to be filling gaps at the

back. They also had more riders. But that frequently only makes it

more difficult to keep the lines tight.



I would like to stay with the same handicap next week. Candi will make

the final decision, at the starting line, but I believe 1:30 is a

reasonable handicap between the cat 4's and 5's. John Bravard coached

the cat 5 group this week, and has already asked if he can focus on

working with the cat 4's next week. If necessary, a few more cat 5

riders will be pulled into the cat 4 group to keep the numbers even.

But I expect to see an entirely different chase next week!



Looking forward to seeing everyone next week! Remember, next week is

the final race of the series. Prizes will be awarded immediately after

each race, so be sure to stick around!



Steven Mullen.

PIR Handicap Race Promoter.





-----Original Message-----

From: Ken Morton <k7f-@yahoo.com>

To: scmu-@aol.com; ob-@topica.com

Sent: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR Handicap splits





 The cat 5 men returned to the same form they exhibited two weeks ago,

easily holding off the cat 4 men.



The cat 4 men had no chance, IMHO. Depite great coaching by Casey Deck

(thank you!) we lost time on the first two laps. The cat 5 field was

huge, compared to the (original) 8 cat 4 riders. Candy had some cat 5's

come back to help, and shortened the split to 1:05 (I think) but it was

still to long of a split, again IMHO. I dropped off after 3 laps (I'm

using Saturdays race as an excuse; no legs) and rode the last 3 by

myself; I think I heard the final cat 4 group was down to 5 or 6

riders. Ouch.



My understanding is that the only real difference between a cat 5 and a

cat 4 is the number of starts you have made; there is _no_ performance

criteria to become (or move up to) a Cat 4. Theoretically, and in fact,

many of the Cat 5 riders are as strong as Cat 4 riders; they have just

not done 10 mass starts.



Just my whiny next-morning ramblings. I'd like to see the gap kept at

45 seconds or less, so we at least _feel_ like we have a chance of

catching the 5's.



Ken



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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

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Tyler S

2005-09-21



This is a tough one. I'm a cat 5, and I'd say one of the big differences

between the '4' and '5' fields in the few races I've done isn't so much legs

as experience.



In the 3 races we've done so far, 2 of them the 5's have stayed away, even

increased our lead. We've had some great coaching (From John Bravard last

week, and Doug Ollerenshaw before that.). The main reason the Cat 4's

caught us, fast, in the 2nd race wasn't that the riders were so much

stronger or weaker on either side, but that the 5's weren't organized into a

solid paceline. Perhaps the clinic held (thanks!) helped, but things were

pretty tightly drilled. We knew how fast we needed to go: it was the first

week a significant number of the 5's got dropped from our own paceline.



Last week, by contrast, the 4's got their act together, we didn't, we got

caught almost immediately. If you look at the results from last week,

mostly the 4's dominated the end, too, even though the pack stayed mostly

together until the end. I think -- at least for me -- it came down to

tactics and experience, which is the difference between a 5 and a 4. I'm

new to this game; I don't know when to sprint and when to wait, whose wheel

to hold and for how long.



It's nice for me, as a novice, to try my skills against others in the same

boat, and I really enjoy the 'handicap' format because of the good RACING it

creates; we're all not just sitting on for 5 laps, waiting for the sprint.



The advantage the 4's have is that, if they'd like a 'chance,' they can join

the 'open' race, either on its own, or along with the 4/5 race for another

whole 5 bucks. 20 bucks for 20 laps or so of racing sounds like a good

deal. I'm guessing most of the 'fastest' of the 4's have been joining the

'open' race to test themselves against the 3's, 2's, and Big Bad Racer

Types.



In conclusion, the actual time of the split doesn't seem to have been the

deciding factor, unless the split last week was so short that the 5's

panicked and gave up.



A big thanks to the organizers for putting on some fun events. See you next

week!



--T

<BLOCKQUOTE style='PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #A0C6E5

2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px'><font

style='FONT-SIZE:11px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma,sans-serif'><hr color=#A0C6E5

size=1>

From: <i>Ken Morton <k7f-@yahoo.com></i><br>Reply-To:

<i>k7f-@yahoo.com</i><br>To: <i>scmu-@aol.com,

ob-@topica.com</i><br>Subject: <i>Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR Handicap

splits</i><br>Date: <i>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:05:38 -0700

(PDT)</i><br>><br>> > The cat 5 men returned to the same form they

exhibited two weeks ago,<br>> > easily holding off the cat 4

men.<br>><br>>The cat 4 men had no chance, IMHO. Depite great coaching

by Casey Deck<br>>(thank you!) we lost time on the first two laps. The

cat 5 field was<br>>huge, compared to the (original) 8 cat 4 riders.

Candy had some cat 5's<br>>come back to help, and shortened the split to

1:05 (I think) but it was<br>>still to long of a split, again IMHO. I

dropped off after 3 laps (I'm<br>>using Saturdays race as an excuse; no

legs) and rode the last 3 by<br>>myself; I think I heard the final cat 4

group was down to 5 or 6<br>>riders. Ouch.<br>><br>>My

understanding is that the only real difference between a cat 5 and

a<br>>cat 4 is the number of starts you have made; there is _no_

performance<br>>criteria to become (or move up to) a Cat 4.

Theoretically, and in fact,<br>>many of the Cat 5 riders are as strong as

Cat 4 riders; they have just<br>>not done 10 mass

starts.<br>><br>>Just my whiny next-morning ramblings. I'd like to see

the gap kept at<br>>45 seconds or less, so we at least _feel_ like we

have a chance of<br>>catching the

5's.<br>><br>>Ken<br>><br>>__________________________________________________<br>>Do

You Yahoo!?<br>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection

around<br>>http://mail.yahoo.com<br></font></BLOCKQUOTE>



Ken Morton

2005-09-21





 The cat 5 men returned to the same form they exhibited two weeks ago,

easily holding off the cat 4 men.



The cat 4 men had no chance, IMHO. Depite great coaching by Casey Deck

(thank you!) we lost time on the first two laps. The cat 5 field was

huge, compared to the (original) 8 cat 4 riders. Candy had some cat 5's

come back to help, and shortened the split to 1:05 (I think) but it was

still to long of a split, again IMHO. I dropped off after 3 laps (I'm

using Saturdays race as an excuse; no legs) and rode the last 3 by

myself; I think I heard the final cat 4 group was down to 5 or 6

riders. Ouch.



My understanding is that the only real difference between a cat 5 and a

cat 4 is the number of starts you have made; there is _no_ performance

criteria to become (or move up to) a Cat 4. Theoretically, and in fact,

many of the Cat 5 riders are as strong as Cat 4 riders; they have just

not done 10 mass starts.



Just my whiny next-morning ramblings. I'd like to see the gap kept at

45 seconds or less, so we at least _feel_ like we have a chance of

catching the 5's.



Ken



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

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scmu-@aol.com

2005-09-21

The wind was obviously a factor last night at PIR, with lap times for

all groups not quite as fast as they were last week. I have attached

splits. If you cannot, or do not want to read in Excel, they will also

be posted to the OBRA results page.



First, please note, a couple of riders commented the average speeds

posted the first two weeks seemed a little fast compared to their bike

computers. Turns out, I was using the wrong distance- 1.96 miles per

lap, instead of 1.92. This weeks results are using 1.92 miles per lap

to calculate average speed. When comparing averages to the previous

two weeks, you should adjust the averages by about .5 mph, or just use

the lap times for comparison.



The women's race was the most exciting of the night. With three laps

to go, and still a minute and a half behind, the cat 1/2/3 chase group

was cutting into the lead of the 4/5 group at the rate of 30 seconds

per lap. With one lap remaining, the chasers were only 33 seconds

behind. It seemed certain the 1/2/3's would catch the 4/5's in the

final straight-away. But the 4/5 women held them off, only giving up

eight seconds on the last lap, and giving Courtney Ries the win.



The cat 5 men returned to the same form they exhibited two weeks ago,

easily holding off the cat 4 men. The cat 1/2 riders continued to

dominate the cat 1-4 race, this time erasing a three minute deficit in

only five laps.



Great racing everybody! It was as fun to watch from the sidelines this

week, as it was to participate last week!



Steven Mullen

Race Promoter.