Looking for a 12" kids bike

T. Kenji Sugahara

2005-09-27





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sorry if i'm geeking out here.



bike: noun: a bicycle or motorcycle.



801.150 ?Bicycle.? ?Bicycle? means a vehicle that:

       (1) Is designed to be operated on the ground on wheels;

       (2) Has a seat or saddle for use of the rider;

       (3) Is designed to travel with not more than three wheels in

contact with the ground;

       (4) Is propelled exclusively by human power; and

       (5) Has every wheel more than 14 inches in diameter or two

tandem wheels either of which is more than 14 inches in diameter.

[1983 c.338 ?22]



814.484 Meaning of ?bicycle? and ?operating or riding on a

highway.? (1) For purposes of ORS 814.485, 814.486, 815.052 and

815.281, ?bicycle? has the meaning given in ORS 801.150 except that:

       (a) It also includes vehicles that meet the criteria specified

in ORS 801.150 (1) to (4) but that have wheels less than 14 inches in

diameter.

       (b) It does not include tricycles designed to be ridden by

children.

       (2) For purposes of the offenses defined in ORS 814.485,

814.486 and 815.281 (2), a person shall not be considered to be

operating or riding on a bicycle on a highway or on premises open to

the public if the person is operating or riding on a three-wheeled

nonmotorized vehicle on a beach while it is closed to motor vehicle

traffic. [1993 c.408 ??3a,3b]



As far as Mike's comment about 4 wheel pedaled vehicles- I'd say they

are four wheeled human powered vehicles (kinda like skateboards).   

ORS 801.026(6) says in part that "devices that are powered

exclusively by human power are not subject to the vehicle code that

relate to vehicles." In State v. Smith, (check out 184 or. app. 118)

the court said that the skateboard is not a vehicle. This is a

really weird result as skateboarders aren't likely pedestrians either

(801.385). So... go figure.



(this is not and should not be construed to be legal advice.)







On Sep 27, 2005, at 3:26 PM, markjgi-@yahoo.com wrote:



 Only someone like my friend Kieth would appreciate that from an

Oregon law point of view, he is not actually looking for a bicycle.

ORS 801.150 is clear that anything with all wheels less than 14

inches, is not a bicycle!



to wit:

801.150 ?Bicycle.? ?Bicycle? means a vehicle that:

       (1) Is designed to be operated on the ground on wheels;



       (2) Has a seat or saddle for use of the rider;



       (3) Is designed to travel with not more than three wheels in

contact with the ground;



       (4) Is propelled exclusively by human power; and



       (5) Has every wheel more than 14 inches in diameter or two

tandem wheels either of which is more than 14 inches in diameter







so, where's the UCI stand on this matter? Will someone propose an

OBRA rule? Will there be endless wheel size matters/doesn't matter

flame wars?





Mark Ginsberg









"Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com> wrote:



My son Eli is really outgrowing his plastic wheeled tricycle.

I want to get him on a little bike with training

wheels and pneumatic tires. I hope to have him ready to

go for the kiddie kilos at Alpenrose this Spring! :)



He test drove a Gary Fisher Sun Spot and did really well on it.



Anyone have a future racer that has outgrown his training wheeled

cruiser?



-K









Mark J. Ginsberg

Attorney At Law

621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900

Portland, OR 97204

(503) 542-3000

Fax (503) 227-2530

markjgi-@yahoo.com

www.bikesafetylaw.com



Yahoo! for Good

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.





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<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV>sorry if i'm geeking out here.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>bike: noun: a bicycle or motorcycle.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" style=""><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;">801.150 <B>?Bicycle.?</B></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT class="Apple-style-span" style=""><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;"> ?Bicycle? means a vehicle that:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" style=""><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;">????? (1) Is designed to be operated on the ground on wheels;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" style=""><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;">????? (2) Has a seat or saddle for use of the rider;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" style=""><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;">????? (3) Is designed to travel with not more than three wheels in contact with the ground;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" style=""><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;">????? (4) Is propelled exclusively by human power; and</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" style=""><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;">????? (5) Has every wheel more than 14 inches in diameter or two tandem wheels either of which is more than 14 inches in diameter. [1983 c.338 ?22]</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span">814.484 <B>Meaning of ?bicycle?</B> and ?operating or riding on a highway.? (1) For purposes of ORS 814.485, 814.486, 815.052 and 815.281, ?bicycle? has the meaning given in ORS 801.150 except that:</SPAN></DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span">????? (a) It also includes vehicles that meet the criteria specified in ORS 801.150 (1) to (4) <B>but that have wheels less than 14 inches in diameter</B>.</SPAN></DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span">????? (b)<B> It does not include tricycles designed to be ridden by children</B>.</SPAN></DIV><DIV>????? (2) For purposes of the offenses defined in ORS 814.485, 814.486 and 815.281 (2), a person shall not be considered to be operating or riding on a bicycle on a highway or on premises open to the public if the person is operating or riding on a three-wheeled nonmotorized vehicle on a beach while it is closed to motor vehicle traffic. [1993 c.408 ??3a,3b]</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>As far as Mike's comment about 4 wheel pedaled vehicles- I'd say they are four wheeled human powered vehicles (kinda like skateboards).? ORS 801.026(6) says in part that "devices that are powered exclusively by human power are not subject to the vehicle code that relate to vehicles."? In State v. Smith, (check out 184 or. app. 118) the court said that the skateboard is not a vehicle.? This is a really weird result as skateboarders aren't likely pedestrians either (801.385).? So... go figure.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>(this is not and should not be construed to be legal advice.)</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>On Sep 27, 2005, at 3:26 PM, <A href="mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com">markjgi-@yahoo.com</A> wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV>Only someone like my friend Kieth would appreciate that from an Oregon law point of view, he is not actually looking for a bicycle. ORS 801.150 is clear that anything with all wheels less than 14 inches, is not a bicycle!</DIV> <DIV>?</DIV> <DIV>to wit:</DIV> <DIV>?801.150 ?Bicycle.? ?Bicycle? means a vehicle that:<P class="MsoNormal">????? (1) Is designed to be operated on the ground on wheels;</P><P class="MsoNormal">????? (2) Has a seat or saddle for use of the rider;</P><P class="MsoNormal">????? (3) Is designed to travel with not more than three wheels in contact with the ground;</P><P class="MsoNormal">????? (4) Is propelled exclusively by human power; and</P><P class="MsoNormal">????? (5) Has every wheel more than 14 inches in diameter or two tandem wheels either of which is more than 14 inches in diameter</P><DIV>?<BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>?<BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><P class="MsoNormal">so, where's the UCI stand on this matter? Will someone propose an OBRA rule? Will there be endless wheel size matters/doesn't matter flame wars?</P><DIV>?<BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><P class="MsoNormal">Mark Ginsberg</P><DIV>?<BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><BR><BR>"Keith A. Prior" <<A href="mailto:toka-@ix.netcom.com">toka-@ix.netcom.com</A>> wrote:</P></DIV> My son Eli is really outgrowing his plastic wheeled tricycle.<BR>I want to get him on a little bike with training<BR>wheels and pneumatic tires. I hope to have him ready to <BR>go for the kiddie kilos at Alpenrose this Spring! :)<BR><BR>He test drove a Gary Fisher Sun Spot and did really well on it.<BR><BR>Anyone have a future racer that has outgrown his training wheeled cruiser?<BR><BR>-K<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Mark J. Ginsberg <BR>Attorney At Law <BR>621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900 <BR>Portland, OR 97204 <BR>(503) 542-3000 <BR>Fax (503) 227-2530 <BR><A href="mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com">markjgi-@yahoo.com</A> <BR>www.bikesafetylaw.com<DIV>          <BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Yahoo! for Good<BR> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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mike.m-@obra.org

2005-09-27



OBRA rules define a bicycle as:



"9.3 - Equipment

9.3.1 BICYCLES

9.3.1.1 Bicycles must be propelled by the rider's legs only. No stored

propulsion mechanism is allowed.

9.3.1.2 Bicycles must be no more than 2 meters long and 75 cm wide. Tandems

may be up to 3 meters long.

9.3.1.3 Nothing may be added to the basic bicycle to reduce air resistance.

EXCEPTION: spoke covers may be used.

9.3.1.4 Fully enclosed or disc front wheels or spoke covers on front wheels

are not allowed in mass start events.

9.3.1.5 The handlebars and stem will not present a danger. Handlebars that

allow for support of the forearms may not be used in mass start events.

Handlebar ends and extensions shall be plugged and must not have sharp or

jagged ends. "



As you can see there is no wheel size, or for that matter, wheel number

statement. Absent a rule change I guess you can feel free to outfit you

bike with skate wheels or build a contraption with as many or as few wheels

as you like.



UCI rules are somewhat longer and are, in my opinion, stupid anyhow so I

won't quote them.



So under Oregon law 4 wheel pedaled vehicles are not bikes. What are they?

Can they be operated on the road legally?





Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: markjgi-@yahoo.com [mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 15:27 PM

To: toka-@ix.netcom.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Looking for a 12" kids bike





Only someone like my friend Kieth would appreciate that from an Oregon law

point of view, he is not actually looking for a bicycle. ORS 801.150 is

clear that anything with all wheels less than 14 inches, is not a bicycle!



to wit:

801.150 "Bicycle." "Bicycle" means a vehicle that:

      (1) Is designed to be operated on the ground on wheels;

      (2) Has a seat or saddle for use of the rider;

      (3) Is designed to travel with not more than three wheels in contact

with the ground;

      (4) Is propelled exclusively by human power; and

      (5) Has every wheel more than 14 inches in diameter or two tandem

wheels either of which is more than 14 inches in diameter





so, where's the UCI stand on this matter? Will someone propose an OBRA rule?

Will there be endless wheel size matters/doesn't matter flame wars?



Mark Ginsberg







"Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

My son Eli is really outgrowing his plastic wheeled tricycle.

I want to get him on a little bike with training

wheels and pneumatic tires. I hope to have him ready to

go for the kiddie kilos at Alpenrose this Spring! :)



He test drove a Gary Fisher Sun Spot and did really well on it.



Anyone have a future racer that has outgrown his training wheeled cruiser?



-K











Mark J. Ginsberg

Attorney At Law

621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900

Portland, OR 97204

(503) 542-3000

Fax (503) 227-2530

markjgi-@yahoo.com

www.bikesafetylaw.com





Yahoo! for Good

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.



Keith A. Prior

2005-09-27

But Mark:



I all fairness I didn't say bicycle....I said bike!

I am surprised that you, a man of law, would overlook

my actual words! hehe :)



But it's not really about the bike is it?



-K

-----Original Message-----

From: Mark J. Ginsberg [mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:27 PM

To: toka-@ix.netcom.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Looking for a 12" kids bike





Only someone like my friend Kieth would appreciate that from an Oregon law

point of view, he is not actually looking for a bicycle. ORS 801.150 is

clear that anything with all wheels less than 14 inches, is not a bicycle!



to wit:

   801.150 ?Bicycle.? ?Bicycle? means a vehicle that:

        (1) Is designed to be operated on the ground on wheels;



        (2) Has a seat or saddle for use of the rider;



        (3) Is designed to travel with not more than three wheels in contact

with the ground;



        (4) Is propelled exclusively by human power; and



        (5) Has every wheel more than 14 inches in diameter or two tandem

wheels either of which is more than 14 inches in diameter











so, where's the UCI stand on this matter? Will someone propose an OBRA

rule? Will there be endless wheel size matters/doesn't matter flame wars?







Mark Ginsberg











"Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com> wrote:



    My son Eli is really outgrowing his plastic wheeled tricycle.

    I want to get him on a little bike with training

    wheels and pneumatic tires. I hope to have him ready to

    go for the kiddie kilos at Alpenrose this Spring! :)



    He test drove a Gary Fisher Sun Spot and did really well on it.



    Anyone have a future racer that has outgrown his training wheeled

cruiser?



    -K











Mark J. Ginsberg

Attorney At Law

621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900

Portland, OR 97204

(503) 542-3000

Fax (503) 227-2530

markjgi-@yahoo.com

www.bikesafetylaw.com





----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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markjgi-@yahoo.com

2005-09-27

Only someone like my friend Kieth would appreciate that from an Oregon law point of view, he is not actually looking for a bicycle. ORS 801.150 is clear that anything with all wheels less than 14 inches, is not a bicycle!



to wit:

801.150 ?Bicycle.? ?Bicycle? means a vehicle that:

      (1) Is designed to be operated on the ground on wheels;



      (2) Has a seat or saddle for use of the rider;



      (3) Is designed to travel with not more than three wheels in contact with the ground;



      (4) Is propelled exclusively by human power; and



      (5) Has every wheel more than 14 inches in diameter or two tandem wheels either of which is more than 14 inches in diameter











so, where's the UCI stand on this matter? Will someone propose an OBRA rule? Will there be endless wheel size matters/doesn't matter flame wars?







Mark Ginsberg











"Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com> wrote:



My son Eli is really outgrowing his plastic wheeled tricycle.

I want to get him on a little bike with training

wheels and pneumatic tires. I hope to have him ready to

go for the kiddie kilos at Alpenrose this Spring! :)



He test drove a Gary Fisher Sun Spot and did really well on it.



Anyone have a future racer that has outgrown his training wheeled cruiser?



-K









Mark J. Ginsberg

Attorney At Law

621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900

Portland, OR 97204

(503) 542-3000

Fax (503) 227-2530

markjgi-@yahoo.com

www.bikesafetylaw.com



---------------------------------

Yahoo! for Good

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.



Keith A. Prior

2005-09-27



My son Eli is really outgrowing his plastic wheeled tricycle.

I want to get him on a little bike with training

wheels and pneumatic tires. I hope to have him ready to

go for the kiddie kilos at Alpenrose this Spring! :)



He test drove a Gary Fisher Sun Spot and did really well on it.



Anyone have a future racer that has outgrown his training wheeled cruiser?



-K