RE: junior racing

Candi Murray

2008-01-01

Here is the current team list.

Candi Murray
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of T. Kenji Sugahara
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:48 PM
To: Dean Hatch
Cc: obra@list.obra.org list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] junior racing

Hi Dean-

Of course!!!

T. Kenji Sugahara
Assistant Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935

On Jan 1, 2008, at 11:13 AM, Dean Hatch wrote:

> Good afternoon,
>
> I am the Montana Junior Cycling Coordinator. We have made
> a concerted effort to develop junior cycling in the state of
> Montana. At this time we are fielding a team of 20 junior riders.
> I would ask that you forward race fliers for all events that will
> include a junior classification. We are hoping to attend as many stage
> races as funds will allow. We would also appreciate you forwarding
> any Montana race fliers you receive to the junior teams in your state.
> We would also like to help develop a Northwest Regional Junior Racing
> Series in the future.
>
> Could you forward a contact list for all your state teams
> that have junior riders?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Dean Hatch
> Montana State Junior Cycling Coordinator,
>
> Team Director, Central Montana Junior Cycling director@cmjcycling.org
>
> www.cmjcycling.org

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T. Kenji Sugahara

2008-01-01

Hi Dean-

Of course!!!

T. Kenji Sugahara
Assistant Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935

On Jan 1, 2008, at 11:13 AM, Dean Hatch wrote:

> Good afternoon,
>
> I am the Montana Junior Cycling Coordinator. We have
> made a concerted effort to develop junior cycling in the state of
> Montana. At this time we are fielding a team of 20 junior riders.
> I would ask that you forward race fliers for all events that will
> include a junior classification. We are hoping to attend as many
> stage races as funds will allow. We would also appreciate you
> forwarding any Montana race fliers you receive to the junior teams
> in your state. We would also like to help develop a Northwest
> Regional Junior Racing Series in the future.
>
> Could you forward a contact list for all your state
> teams that have junior riders?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Dean Hatch
> Montana State Junior Cycling Coordinator,
>
> Team Director, Central Montana Junior Cycling
> director@cmjcycling.org
>
> www.cmjcycling.org


Luciano bailey

2005-10-06





Once again the subject started with a simple question over entry fees it

goes beyond that I differ again to Euro racing where juniors are the planted

fruit of the 2012 tour and so on. What this sounds like is some satisfaction

that cycling may be somewhat of an elitest sport only open to those who can

spend more on a set of wheels than some spend on rent. Thats totally

ridiculous it is about love of the sport and sharing that love with young

people, beyond sport we may even get some people to bike commute who may

never have made that choice.



 From: "J.Michael Manning" <Cycle-@hotmail.com>

Reply-To: Cycle-@hotmail.com

To: impu-@yahoo.com, bra-@gmail.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing

Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:49:41 -0700



Right on Jon! I am amazed that I have to hear so much complaining about

entry fees period. Racing back east, not only did we have to pay entry fees

that were many times double what we pay in Oregon, but traveling to races

was a part of the culture and either you made the sacrifice or you didn't

race. As a former race promoter, I know from first hand experience that

making a profit is rare and most of us feel that our time is too valuable

to give it away and yet suffer through the bitching that accompanies the

petty concerns of certain individuals who, in my opinion, cause more

suffering than solution in bickering over a few dollars. Granted...parents

are ultimately responsible for the financing of their kid's endeavors. As

the cross country coach at Glencoe High School, I see the impact everyday

of parents who are either unable or unwilling to invest in their children

versus those who are. I have also seen kids throw thier parent's money away

because their hearts are not in it. I say give the kids something they love

and they will find a way. Any way you look at it...the real expense is not

in the entry fees and should never be an issue.

Michael Manning



<BLOCKQUOTE style='PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:

#A0C6E5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px'><font

style='FONT-SIZE:11px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma,sans-serif'><hr color=#A0C6E5

size=1>

From: <i>"Jonathan C. Puskas"

<impu-@yahoo.com></i><br>Reply-To:

<i>impu-@yahoo.com</i><br>To: <i>bra-@gmail.com,

ob-@topica.com</i><br>Subject: <i>RE: [OBRA Chat] junior

racing</i><br>Date: <i>Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:41:46 -0700

(PDT)</i><br>>Instead of having $1500 bicycles, why don't

we<br>>consider minimizing the cost of Junior racing by<br>>limiting

the type of equipment used?<br>><br>>Why not use gear-restricted

single speeds for<br>>instance?<br>><br>>I grew up ski racing (it

led to my bike racing--okay,<br>>bike purchasing--addiction) and I know

how expensive<br>>each sport is. However, entries are generally

the<br>>smallest portion of the expenses yet we expect<br>>promoters

(those making the smallest margins) and<br>>other racers to subsidize

entries.<br>><br>>I just think we may be looking in the wrong

direction<br>>for cost savings for Juniors.<br>><br>>I also think

that those who want to support Juniors<br>>can always choose to funnel

money through Junior Teams<br>>(such as Forza Jet, FM, BBC, and others)

if they are<br>>so inclined. I guess what I'm saying is

that<br>>increasing EVERYONE'S entries doesn't seem like the<br>>only

reasonable approach.<br>><br>>Just my $.02 (worth about

$.005),<br>>Puskas<br>><br>>--- "Brad Cockman, DC"

<bra-@gmail.com> wrote:<br>><br>> > Since we're on the

subject, myself and the Mount<br>> > Bachelor Sport<br>> >

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in<br>> > the

process of<br>> > establishing a junior road racing program. It

will<br>> > be a pay-for-service<br>> > program like their ski

programs in which the kids<br>> > receive coaching as<br>> >

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The<br>> > hope is

that we will<br>> > get a consistent program going and have a bunch

of<br>> > kids from C.O. going<br>> > to OBRA as well as

national and maybe one day<br>> > international events.<br>> >

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's<br>> > effort to

promote<br>> > junior development in other directions than

just<br>> > skiing and<br>> > snowboarding.<br>>

 <br>> > If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love

to<br>> > hear from you.<br>> ><br>> > Regarding George's

comment, yes it is much of the<br>> > parent's<br>> >

responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an<br>> > example, who's

parents<br>> > support him in EVERY way, he also has two

younger<br>> > brothers who ski race,<br>> > play baseball and

do other sports as well and it<br>> > takes a toll on their<br>>

 finances and sanity, especially when Carson's chosen<br>> >

sport is usually a<br>> > 3 hour drive away and requires multiple

$1500+<br>> > equpiment dings. Carson's<br>> > parents make

good money and I know for a fact that<br>> > the equipment

and<br>> > travel demands of cycling keep them working hard,<br>>

 not just for Carson,<br>> > but for all of their kids. So I

guess the moral of<br>> > the story is that ANY<br>> > support

one can give a junior racer would be<br>> > welcome, especially

when<br>> > the parents aren't in one of those upper tax<br>> >

brackets. Any little bit of<br>> > encouragement in the way of

offsetting the costs for<br>> > juniors is not only<br>> > good

for the junior and his parents, but good for<br>> > the

sport.<br>> ><br>> > Brad<br>> ><br>> ><br>>

 <br>> > Luciano bailey wrote:<br>> > ><br>> > >

My opinion on any governing body is the same there<br>> > is enough

revenue<br>> > > generated by Adult racers to subsidize

junior<br>> > racing. Oregon could be<br>> > > the<br>>

  next thing to the Olympic training grounds in<br>> >

Colorado if Oregon racers<br>> > > start to embrace junior racing

for it's true<br>> > potential. I don't know<br>> > >

about<br>> > > you but watching Carson Miller beating up

on<br>> > adults is exciting and a<br>> > > tribute to the

future of the the sport (Sorry OLD<br>> > GUYS).Let alone the<br>>

  invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his<br>> >

kids as coach/active<br>> > > racer.<br>> > > If every

racer who could afford it sponsored one<br>> > junior racer that

would<br>> > ><br>> > > bring hundreds of juniors into a

system that now<br>> > struggles to field 100<br>> > >

at<br>> > > any race. Compare that to euro racing where<br>>

 juniors and development<br>> > > programs<br>> > >

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro<br>> > dominance of

the sport<br>> > > in<br>> > > almost all disciplines. No

offense Lance,Levi, and<br>> > the rest. Just<br>> > >

another<br>> > > thought.<br>> > ><br>> >

 <br>> > ><br>> > > >From: dan davis

<da-@preciseflight.com><br>> > > >Reply-To:

da-@preciseflight.com<br>> > > >To: ob-@topica.com<br>>

   Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat]<br>> >

Cannondale St?mptown Cy<br>> > > >Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005

17:29:47 +0000<br>> > > ><br>> > > >can you say

UCI. the non UCI cost for the junior<br>> > race is $12. the

UCI<br>> > > >junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the

UCI<br>> > for all the work they do<br>> > > >for us?

they do do work for us right?<br>> > > >Dan...<br>> >

  Hormann, Douglas J wrote:<br>> > > > ><br>> >

 You're not the only one Luciano. I was<br>> >

wondering the same thing. Can<br>> > > > > someone explain

the organization of cyclocross<br>> > vs. other OBRA events

so<br>> > > > > we can understand the cost difference. I

know<br>> > there's insurance, etc. to<br>> > > > > be

paid; is it at a different rate for<br>> > cyclocross

events.?<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > >   Doug

Hormann<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > ><br>>

    -----Original Message-----<br>> > > > >

From: Luciano bailey<br>> > [mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]<br>> >

   Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:49 AM<br>> > >

To: bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com;<br>> >

nwcyc-@topica.com;<br>> > > > >

obra-@topica.com<br>> > > > > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat]

Cannondale St?mptown<br>> > Cyclocross Classic- Sat<br>> > >

  10/8<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > >

Maybe off topic but why are the Junior cross<br>> > races so

expensive with the<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > >

tremendous turnout for these events promoters<br>> > would encourage

junior<br>> > > > > also<br>> > > > > known

as future racers by not making racing<br>> > cost prohibitive. I

could be<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > alone here

but after bike shopping and race<br>> > fees it is quite a leap

for<br>> > > > > an<br>> > > > > eight to ten

race season. I think my main<br>> > concern is the future of<br>>

    Oregon<br>> > > > > racing if the

juniors programs are not somehow<br>> > subsidized. Just a<br>>

    thought.<br>> > > > ><br>> > >

<br>> > > > ><br>> > > ><br>> >

To respond to the whole group send to<br>> >

ob-@topica.com.<br>> > > >To respond to the list manager send

to<br>> > cmur-@obra.org<br>> > > >To unsubscribe send

to<br>> > obra-uns-@topica.com<br>> > > ><br>>

  <br>> > ><br>>

<br>>_________________________________________________________________<br>>

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it now!<br>> > ><br>>

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 <br>> ><br>> > To respond to the whole group send

to<br>> > ob-@topica.com.<br>> > To respond to the list

manager send to<br>> > cmur-@obra.org<br>> > To unsubscribe

send to obra-uns-@topica.com<br>> ><br>> ><br>>

 <br>><br>><br>>Jonathan C. Puskas<br>>159 Fifth

Street<br>>Lake Oswego, OR

97034<br>>impu-@yahoo.com<br>><br>>"If you're gonna

charge...charge

hard!"<br>><br>><br>><br>>__________________________________<br>>Yahoo!

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice

2005<br>>http://mail.yahoo.com<br></font></BLOCKQUOTE>



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Luciano bailey

2005-10-06



George weither we philosophically agree with peoples choices or not these

kids are here and without intervention we all pay the ticket anyway. How

many of your taxes dollars are right now at work funding the penal system

and public drug and gang agencies which increase annually. You may not coose

to fund these things but you are and will continue to as long as these

social problems exist.





 From: cmur-@obra.org

Reply-To: cmur-@obra.org

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 14:03:05 -0700





I know that a good portion of the Bossen clan pay for their racing by

sticking around and cleaning up afterward. They raced the junior race

then waited 3+ hours to pick up cones and help put things away.



-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:50 PM

To: bra-@gmail.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would prefer to direct it to juniors who have no support due to their

parents limited financial circumstances and let the other families take

care of themselves. Of course, that is just me and there is no right or

wrong approach. I suppose the important thing is that we back up our

positions with actions. Under the circumstances, perhaps I need to look

for some racers that need support (All retired 50+ racers need not

apply).



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:22 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would pay $5 more per race myself to know that two juniors, who's

parent's may or may not have limited funds, got to race for cheaper,

maybe got really excited about bike racing and maybe one day became a

world champ. But that's just me.



Schreck, George wrote:

 

Brad, I do not want to get into a debate, but the decision to have

three

 children is itself a choice and often means that there will be

limitations on what benefits can be provided to each child. I think

if

 people want more children, they need to reflect on this issue and not

expect everyone to step up and subsidize their choice. I make choices



 every day that affect my options and I have to live with them. I am

not

 saying that they made the wrong decision. I am saying they made a

choice to spread a limited budget over more children, and that comes

with consequences. I would prefer to direct my charity to those

people

 who are not so lucky as to have choices. Again, that is a personal

decision, and no reflection on supporting peoples children which I am

willing to do to a point.



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:47 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



Since we're on the subject, myself and the Mount Bachelor Sport

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in the process of

establishing a junior road racing program. It will be a

pay-for-service

 program like their ski programs in which the kids receive coaching as

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The hope is that we

will

 get a consistent program going and have a bunch of kids from C.O.

going

 to OBRA as well as national and maybe one day   international events.

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's effort to promote

junior development in other directions than just skiing and

snowboarding.



If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to hear from you.



Regarding George's comment, yes it is much of the parent's

responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an example, who's parents

support him in EVERY way, he also has two younger brothers who ski

race,

 

play baseball and do other sports as well and it takes a toll on their



 finances and sanity, especially when Carson's chosen sport is usually

a

 3 hour drive away and requires multiple $1500+ equpiment dings.

Carson's

 

parents make good money and I know for a fact that the equipment and

travel demands of cycling keep them working hard, not just for Carson,



 but for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of the story is that

ANY

 

support one can give a junior racer would be welcome, especially when

the parents aren't in one of those upper tax brackets. Any little bit

of

 

encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs for juniors is not

only

 

good for the junior and his parents, but good for the sport.



Brad







Luciano bailey wrote:

 

My opinion on any governing body is the same there is enough revenue



  generated by Adult racers to subsidize junior racing. Oregon could

be

  the

next thing to the Olympic training grounds in Colorado if Oregon

racers

  start to embrace junior racing for it's true potential. I don't know



  about

you but watching Carson Miller beating up on adults is exciting and

a

  tribute to the future of the the sport (Sorry OLD GUYS).Let alone

the

  invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his kids as

coach/active

  racer.

If every racer who could afford it sponsored one junior racer that

would

  



bring hundreds of juniors into a system that now struggles to field

100

  at

any race. Compare that to euro racing where juniors and development

programs

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro dominance of the

sport

  in

almost all disciplines. No offense Lance,Levi, and the rest. Just

another

thought.







 From: dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com>

Reply-To: da-@preciseflight.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cy

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0000



can you say UCI. the non UCI cost for the junior race is $12. the

UCI

   junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the UCI for all the work

they do

   for us? they do do work for us right?

Dan...

Hormann, Douglas J wrote:

 

You're not the only one Luciano. I was wondering the same thing.

Can

    someone explain the organization of cyclocross vs. other OBRA

events so

    we can understand the cost difference. I know there's insurance,

etc. to

    be paid; is it at a different rate for cyclocross events.?



   Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Luciano bailey [mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:49 AM

To: bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com;

nwcyc-@topica.com;

    obra-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cyclocross

Classic- Sat

    10/8



Maybe off topic but why are the Junior cross races so expensive

with the

    

tremendous turnout for these events promoters would encourage

junior

    also

known as future racers by not making racing cost prohibitive. I

could be

    

alone here but after bike shopping and race fees it is quite a

leap for

    an

eight to ten race season. I think my main concern is the future

of

    Oregon

racing if the juniors programs are not somehow subsidized. Just

a

    thought.



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Luciano bailey

2005-10-06





I have and do respect the great efforts Geri has made with her kids. They

have all been an inspiration to me personally that even under difficult

circumstances I can do the same for my son.



 From: Geri Bossen <GeriB-@hotmail.com>

Reply-To: GeriB-@hotmail.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] junior racing

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:51:42 -0700



Part of the Bossen Clan Candi is referring to are the Chilenski Twins

Madison and Jacob (who are "related" because they are my godsons). They

have a single mother (their dad died two years ago). She is unable to

assist in financing their racing.



The boys were really happy that the cross crusade would allow them to help

clean-up to cover the costs of the Bossen Clan's fees.



The Bossen family puts on Estacada Time Trials to help offset the expense

of

our kids racing and to pay for all of the racing expenses for the Chilenski

boys. This includes Madison's and Jacob's bikes, shoes, pedals, helmets,

clothes, race fees, transportation and the occasional treat on the way

home.



Team Oregon and the OBRA-ites have been wonderful about sending bikes,

shoes, helmets and clothing our way. If it was not for all of the effort

that has been put into keeping these two boys bike racing I suspect they

would be headed down a VERY different path.



I just wanted to thank everyone who has put their time and energy into

helping with junior racing because it is not only the future of bike racing

but it is also guiding our future citizens.



Geri Bossen





----- Original Message -----

From: <cmur-@obra.org>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:03 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing







I know that a good portion of the Bossen clan pay for their racing by

sticking around and cleaning up afterward. They raced the junior race

then waited 3+ hours to pick up cones and help put things away.



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



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Geri Bossen

2005-10-05



Part of the Bossen Clan Candi is referring to are the Chilenski Twins

Madison and Jacob (who are "related" because they are my godsons). They

have a single mother (their dad died two years ago). She is unable to

assist in financing their racing.



The boys were really happy that the cross crusade would allow them to help

clean-up to cover the costs of the Bossen Clan's fees.



The Bossen family puts on Estacada Time Trials to help offset the expense of

our kids racing and to pay for all of the racing expenses for the Chilenski

boys. This includes Madison's and Jacob's bikes, shoes, pedals, helmets,

clothes, race fees, transportation and the occasional treat on the way home.



Team Oregon and the OBRA-ites have been wonderful about sending bikes,

shoes, helmets and clothing our way. If it was not for all of the effort

that has been put into keeping these two boys bike racing I suspect they

would be headed down a VERY different path.



I just wanted to thank everyone who has put their time and energy into

helping with junior racing because it is not only the future of bike racing

but it is also guiding our future citizens.



Geri Bossen





----- Original Message -----

From: <cmur-@obra.org>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:03 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing







I know that a good portion of the Bossen clan pay for their racing by

sticking around and cleaning up afterward. They raced the junior race

then waited 3+ hours to pick up cones and help put things away.



J.Michael Manning

2005-10-05



Right on Jon! I am amazed that I have to hear so much complaining about

entry fees period. Racing back east, not only did we have to pay entry fees

that were many times double what we pay in Oregon, but traveling to races

was a part of the culture and either you made the sacrifice or you didn't

race. As a former race promoter, I know from first hand experience that

making a profit is rare and most of us feel that our time is too valuable to

give it away and yet suffer through the bitching that accompanies the petty

concerns of certain individuals who, in my opinion, cause more suffering

than solution in bickering over a few dollars. Granted...parents are

ultimately responsible for the financing of their kid's endeavors. As the

cross country coach at Glencoe High School, I see the impact everyday of

parents who are either unable or unwilling to invest in their children

versus those who are. I have also seen kids throw thier parent's money away

because their hearts are not in it. I say give the kids something they love

and they will find a way. Any way you look at it...the real expense is not

in the entry fees and should never be an issue.

Michael Manning



<BLOCKQUOTE style='PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #A0C6E5

2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px'><font

style='FONT-SIZE:11px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma,sans-serif'><hr color=#A0C6E5

size=1>

From: <i>"Jonathan C. Puskas"

<impu-@yahoo.com></i><br>Reply-To:

<i>impu-@yahoo.com</i><br>To: <i>bra-@gmail.com,

ob-@topica.com</i><br>Subject: <i>RE: [OBRA Chat] junior

racing</i><br>Date: <i>Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:41:46 -0700

(PDT)</i><br>>Instead of having $1500 bicycles, why don't

we<br>>consider minimizing the cost of Junior racing by<br>>limiting

the type of equipment used?<br>><br>>Why not use gear-restricted

single speeds for<br>>instance?<br>><br>>I grew up ski racing (it

led to my bike racing--okay,<br>>bike purchasing--addiction) and I know

how expensive<br>>each sport is. However, entries are generally

the<br>>smallest portion of the expenses yet we expect<br>>promoters

(those making the smallest margins) and<br>>other racers to subsidize

entries.<br>><br>>I just think we may be looking in the wrong

direction<br>>for cost savings for Juniors.<br>><br>>I also think

that those who want to support Juniors<br>>can always choose to funnel

money through Junior Teams<br>>(such as Forza Jet, FM, BBC, and others)

if they are<br>>so inclined. I guess what I'm saying is

that<br>>increasing EVERYONE'S entries doesn't seem like the<br>>only

reasonable approach.<br>><br>>Just my $.02 (worth about

$.005),<br>>Puskas<br>><br>>--- "Brad Cockman, DC"

<bra-@gmail.com> wrote:<br>><br>> > Since we're on the

subject, myself and the Mount<br>> > Bachelor Sport<br>> >

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in<br>> > the

process of<br>> > establishing a junior road racing program. It

will<br>> > be a pay-for-service<br>> > program like their ski

programs in which the kids<br>> > receive coaching as<br>> >

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The<br>> > hope is that

we will<br>> > get a consistent program going and have a bunch

of<br>> > kids from C.O. going<br>> > to OBRA as well as

national and maybe one day<br>> > international events.<br>> >

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's<br>> > effort to

promote<br>> > junior development in other directions than

just<br>> > skiing and<br>> > snowboarding.<br>> ><br>>

 If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to<br>> > hear

from you.<br>> ><br>> > Regarding George's comment, yes it is

much of the<br>> > parent's<br>> > responsibility, but using

Carson Miller as an<br>> > example, who's parents<br>> > support

him in EVERY way, he also has two younger<br>> > brothers who ski

race,<br>> > play baseball and do other sports as well and it<br>>

 takes a toll on their<br>> > finances and sanity, especially when

Carson's chosen<br>> > sport is usually a<br>> > 3 hour drive

away and requires multiple $1500+<br>> > equpiment dings.

Carson's<br>> > parents make good money and I know for a fact

that<br>> > the equipment and<br>> > travel demands of cycling

keep them working hard,<br>> > not just for Carson,<br>> > but

for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of<br>> > the story is

that ANY<br>> > support one can give a junior racer would be<br>>

 welcome, especially when<br>> > the parents aren't in one of

those upper tax<br>> > brackets. Any little bit of<br>> >

encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs for<br>> > juniors is

not only<br>> > good for the junior and his parents, but good

for<br>> > the sport.<br>> ><br>> > Brad<br>>

 <br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Luciano bailey wrote:<br>>

 <br>> > > My opinion on any governing body is the same

there<br>> > is enough revenue<br>> > > generated by Adult

racers to subsidize junior<br>> > racing. Oregon could be<br>> >

 the<br>> > > next thing to the Olympic training grounds

in<br>> > Colorado if Oregon racers<br>> > > start to embrace

junior racing for it's true<br>> > potential. I don't know<br>>

  about<br>> > > you but watching Carson Miller beating up

on<br>> > adults is exciting and a<br>> > > tribute to the

future of the the sport (Sorry OLD<br>> > GUYS).Let alone the<br>>

  invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his<br>> > kids

as coach/active<br>> > > racer.<br>> > > If every racer

who could afford it sponsored one<br>> > junior racer that

would<br>> > ><br>> > > bring hundreds of juniors into a

system that now<br>> > struggles to field 100<br>> > >

at<br>> > > any race. Compare that to euro racing where<br>>

 juniors and development<br>> > > programs<br>> > >

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro<br>> > dominance of

the sport<br>> > > in<br>> > > almost all disciplines. No

offense Lance,Levi, and<br>> > the rest. Just<br>> > >

another<br>> > > thought.<br>> > ><br>> >

 <br>> > ><br>> > > >From: dan davis

<da-@preciseflight.com><br>> > > >Reply-To:

da-@preciseflight.com<br>> > > >To: ob-@topica.com<br>>

   Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat]<br>> >

Cannondale St?mptown Cy<br>> > > >Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005

17:29:47 +0000<br>> > > ><br>> > > >can you say UCI.

the non UCI cost for the junior<br>> > race is $12. the UCI<br>>

   junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the UCI<br>> >

for all the work they do<br>> > > >for us? they do do work for

us right?<br>> > > >Dan...<br>> > > >Hormann,

Douglas J wrote:<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > >

You're not the only one Luciano. I was<br>> > wondering the same

thing. Can<br>> > > > > someone explain the organization of

cyclocross<br>> > vs. other OBRA events so<br>> > > > >

we can understand the cost difference. I know<br>> > there's

insurance, etc. to<br>> > > > > be paid; is it at a different

rate for<br>> > cyclocross events.?<br>> > > >

 <br>> > > > >   Doug Hormann<br>> > > >

<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > -----Original

Message-----<br>> > > > > From: Luciano bailey<br>> >

[mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]<br>> > > > > Sent: Wednesday,

October 05, 2005 9:49 AM<br>> > > > > To:

bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com;<br>> >

nwcyc-@topica.com;<br>> > > > >

obra-@topica.com<br>> > > > > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat]

Cannondale St?mptown<br>> > Cyclocross Classic- Sat<br>> > >

  10/8<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > Maybe

off topic but why are the Junior cross<br>> > races so expensive with

the<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > tremendous

turnout for these events promoters<br>> > would encourage

junior<br>> > > > > also<br>> > > > > known as

future racers by not making racing<br>> > cost prohibitive. I could

be<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > alone here but

after bike shopping and race<br>> > fees it is quite a leap

for<br>> > > > > an<br>> > > > > eight to ten

race season. I think my main<br>> > concern is the future of<br>>

    Oregon<br>> > > > > racing if the juniors

programs are not somehow<br>> > subsidized. Just a<br>> > >

  thought.<br>> > > > ><br>> > > >

<br>> > > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > >

To respond to the whole group send to<br>> >

ob-@topica.com.<br>> > > >To respond to the list manager send

to<br>> > cmur-@obra.org<br>> > > >To unsubscribe send

to<br>> > obra-uns-@topica.com<br>> > > ><br>>

  <br>> > ><br>>

<br>>_________________________________________________________________<br>>

 FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ?<br>> > get

it now!<br>> > ><br>>

 <br>>http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/<br>>

 <br>> ><br>> > To respond to the whole group send

to<br>> > ob-@topica.com.<br>> > To respond to the list manager

send to<br>> > cmur-@obra.org<br>> > To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com<br>> ><br>> ><br>>

 <br>><br>><br>>Jonathan C. Puskas<br>>159 Fifth

Street<br>>Lake Oswego, OR

97034<br>>impu-@yahoo.com<br>><br>>"If you're gonna

charge...charge

hard!"<br>><br>><br>><br>>__________________________________<br>>Yahoo!

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice

2005<br>>http://mail.yahoo.com<br></font></BLOCKQUOTE>



Dave Palmer

2005-10-05



It would also be fun to have a team relay at a mtb or cross race patterned

after the MTB Worlds. Each country (team) has four riders that each do a

lap, one elite man, one elite woman, one espoir, and one junior. Around here

you could easily sub a master rider for the espoir. Another twist would be

to liven it up by sharing a bike, or having to share a front wheel between

all the team members. Maybe crown a team at the State Championships?



Dave





----- Original Message -----

From: "Randy Dreiling" <ragg-@yahoo.com>

To: <tim-@comcast.net>; <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 5:34 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] junior racing





 Awesome idea!



--- "Tim M." <tim-@comcast.net> wrote:



 What I want to see is a cyclocross relay race for

high school teams.

Every team gets one bike.All bikes are the same. All

racers do atleast

one lap. It would be 6 lap race. The riders switch

would take place on

a pit row.



That would be a blast to watch!!! Total madness!!

Actually it would be great race for any group of

teams.



Tim



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Randy Dreiling

2005-10-05



Awesome idea!



--- "Tim M." <tim-@comcast.net> wrote:



 What I want to see is a cyclocross relay race for

high school teams.

Every team gets one bike.All bikes are the same. All

racers do atleast

one lap. It would be 6 lap race. The riders switch

would take place on

a pit row.



That would be a blast to watch!!! Total madness!!

Actually it would be great race for any group of

teams.



Tim



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__________________________________

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http://mail.yahoo.com



Tim M.

2005-10-05



What I want to see is a cyclocross relay race for high school teams.

Every team gets one bike.All bikes are the same. All racers do atleast

one lap. It would be 6 lap race. The riders switch would take place on

a pit row.



That would be a blast to watch!!! Total madness!!

Actually it would be great race for any group of teams.



Tim



Schreck, George

2005-10-05



Excellent point. Money is usually not the real barrier with bike racing. Most older folks who want to race can tell you that. It tend to be a very intimidating sport with not much a support structure for new entrants and particularly children.



-----Original Message-----

From: Hormann, Douglas J [mailto:Douglas.-@tvfr.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:20 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing





I don't think it's a matter of charity. It's more a matter of self interest for Oregon racing. Juniors become the next generation's adults. If you don't have a development program, they won't come. Just subsidizing entry fees won't do it because entry fees are a small part of the cost of cycling. This year there were a lot more juniors racing. The race fees stayed at the same $5.00 level, so what changed? Simple. For the last three years there's been a track program for juniors at Alpenrose. This year Nathan Hobson turned it into a junior only team. Result: This, along with some other teams that field younger juniors became the catalyst that brought even more kids to the races. Still, many promoters have been reluctant to have junior category events. Races that had events tailored to younger racers generally had good turnouts this summer. Not to pick on Cross Crusade, but why only non-competitive events for kids 12 and under. Sure, an 11 year old can sign up for the older junior events, but 45 minutes is pretty long for a youngster, and the difference in ability between a them and an 18 year old is pretty discouraging for a little kid.



Keeping the actual racing cheap is one part of it, but the infrastructure of teams, races with junior categories, and support by the promoters and OBRA all working together is what will make the difference.



Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:50 PM

To: bra-@gmail.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would prefer to direct it to juniors who have no support due to their parents limited financial circumstances and let the other families take care of themselves. Of course, that is just me and there is no right or wrong approach. I suppose the important thing is that we back up our positions with actions. Under the circumstances, perhaps I need to look for some racers that need support (All retired 50+ racers need not apply).



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:22 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would pay $5 more per race myself to know that two juniors, who's

parent's may or may not have limited funds, got to race for cheaper,

maybe got really excited about bike racing and maybe one day became a

world champ. But that's just me.



Schreck, George wrote:

 

Brad, I do not want to get into a debate, but the decision to have three

children is itself a choice and often means that there will be

limitations on what benefits can be provided to each child. I think if

people want more children, they need to reflect on this issue and not

expect everyone to step up and subsidize their choice. I make choices

every day that affect my options and I have to live with them. I am not

saying that they made the wrong decision. I am saying they made a

choice to spread a limited budget over more children, and that comes

with consequences. I would prefer to direct my charity to those people

who are not so lucky as to have choices. Again, that is a personal

decision, and no reflection on supporting peoples children which I am

willing to do to a point.



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:47 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



Since we're on the subject, myself and the Mount Bachelor Sport

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in the process of

establishing a junior road racing program. It will be a pay-for-service

program like their ski programs in which the kids receive coaching as

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The hope is that we will

get a consistent program going and have a bunch of kids from C.O. going

to OBRA as well as national and maybe one day   international events.

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's effort to promote

junior development in other directions than just skiing and

snowboarding.



If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to hear from you.



Regarding George's comment, yes it is much of the parent's

responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an example, who's parents

support him in EVERY way, he also has two younger brothers who ski race,



play baseball and do other sports as well and it takes a toll on their

finances and sanity, especially when Carson's chosen sport is usually a

3 hour drive away and requires multiple $1500+ equpiment dings. Carson's



parents make good money and I know for a fact that the equipment and

travel demands of cycling keep them working hard, not just for Carson,

but for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of the story is that ANY



support one can give a junior racer would be welcome, especially when

the parents aren't in one of those upper tax brackets. Any little bit of



encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs for juniors is not only



good for the junior and his parents, but good for the sport.



Brad







Luciano bailey wrote:

 

My opinion on any governing body is the same there is enough revenue

generated by Adult racers to subsidize junior racing. Oregon could be

the

next thing to the Olympic training grounds in Colorado if Oregon racers

start to embrace junior racing for it's true potential. I don't know

about

you but watching Carson Miller beating up on adults is exciting and a

tribute to the future of the the sport (Sorry OLD GUYS).Let alone the

invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his kids as coach/active

racer.

If every racer who could afford it sponsored one junior racer that would





bring hundreds of juniors into a system that now struggles to field 100

at

any race. Compare that to euro racing where juniors and development

programs

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro dominance of the sport

in

almost all disciplines. No offense Lance,Levi, and the rest. Just

another

thought.







 From: dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com>

Reply-To: da-@preciseflight.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cy

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0000



can you say UCI. the non UCI cost for the junior race is $12. the UCI

junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the UCI for all the work they do

for us? they do do work for us right?

Dan...

Hormann, Douglas J wrote:

 

You're not the only one Luciano. I was wondering the same thing. Can

someone explain the organization of cyclocross vs. other OBRA events so

we can understand the cost difference. I know there's insurance, etc. to

be paid; is it at a different rate for cyclocross events.?



   Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Luciano bailey [mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:49 AM

To: bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com; nwcyc-@topica.com;

obra-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cyclocross Classic- Sat

10/8



Maybe off topic but why are the Junior cross races so expensive with the



tremendous turnout for these events promoters would encourage junior

also

known as future racers by not making racing cost prohibitive. I could be



alone here but after bike shopping and race fees it is quite a leap for

an

eight to ten race season. I think my main concern is the future of

Oregon

racing if the juniors programs are not somehow subsidized. Just a

thought.



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Randy Dreiling

2005-10-05



Mt Biking has great JR classes for beginner and

sport...the disagreement comes among promoters on if

there should be a JR expert class...do reward the 2-5

kids that are clearly better then the rest of the

sport racers with their own class or do you let them

race in the mens or womens open...mt bike promoters

are split down the middle of this issue..this year

again there will not be a JR Expert class, but the

good news is that said the other 95% of the JR racers

have classes they can race with kids their own age and

skill level.



Randy



--- "Hormann, Douglas J" <Douglas.-@tvfr.com>

wrote:



 

I don't think it's a matter of charity. It's more a

matter of self interest for Oregon racing. Juniors

become the next generation's adults. If you don't

have a development program, they won't come. Just

subsidizing entry fees won't do it because entry

fees are a small part of the cost of cycling. This

year there were a lot more juniors racing. The race

fees stayed at the same $5.00 level, so what

changed? Simple. For the last three years there's

been a track program for juniors at Alpenrose. This

year Nathan Hobson turned it into a junior only

team. Result: This, along with some other teams that

field younger juniors became the catalyst that

brought even more kids to the races. Still, many

promoters have been reluctant to have junior

category events. Races that had events tailored to

younger racers generally had good turnouts this

summer. Not to pick on Cross Crusade, but why only

non-competitive events for kids 12 and under. Sure,

an 11 year old can sign up for the older junior

events, but 45 minutes is pretty long for a

youngster, and the difference in ability between a

them and an 18 year old is pretty discouraging for a

little kid.



Keeping the actual racing cheap is one part of it,

but the infrastructure of teams, races with junior

categories, and support by the promoters and OBRA

all working together is what will make the

difference.



Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George

[mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:50 PM

To: bra-@gmail.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would prefer to direct it to juniors who have no

support due to their parents limited financial

circumstances and let the other families take care

of themselves. Of course, that is just me and there

is no right or wrong approach. I suppose the

important thing is that we back up our positions

with actions. Under the circumstances, perhaps I

need to look for some racers that need support (All

retired 50+ racers need not apply).



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:22 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would pay $5 more per race myself to know that two

juniors, who's

parent's may or may not have limited funds, got to

race for cheaper,

maybe got really excited about bike racing and maybe

one day became a

world champ. But that's just me.



Schreck, George wrote:

 

Brad, I do not want to get into a debate, but the

decision to have three

 children is itself a choice and often means that

there will be

 limitations on what benefits can be provided to

each child. I think if

 people want more children, they need to reflect on

this issue and not

 expect everyone to step up and subsidize their

choice. I make choices

 every day that affect my options and I have to

live with them. I am not

 saying that they made the wrong decision. I am

saying they made a

 choice to spread a limited budget over more

children, and that comes

 with consequences. I would prefer to direct my

charity to those people

 who are not so lucky as to have choices. Again,

that is a personal

 decision, and no reflection on supporting peoples

children which I am

 willing to do to a point.



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:47 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



Since we're on the subject, myself and the Mount

Bachelor Sport

 Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are

in the process of

 establishing a junior road racing program. It will

be a pay-for-service

 program like their ski programs in which the kids

receive coaching as

 well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The

hope is that we will

 get a consistent program going and have a bunch of

kids from C.O. going

 to OBRA as well as national and maybe one day

international events.

 This program will fit hand-in-hand with the

MBSEF's effort to promote

 junior development in other directions than just

skiing and

 snowboarding.



If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love

to hear from you.

 

Regarding George's comment, yes it is much of the

parent's

 responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an

example, who's parents

 support him in EVERY way, he also has two younger

brothers who ski race,

 

play baseball and do other sports as well and it

takes a toll on their

 finances and sanity, especially when Carson's

chosen sport is usually a

 3 hour drive away and requires multiple $1500+

equpiment dings. Carson's

 

parents make good money and I know for a fact that

the equipment and

 travel demands of cycling keep them working hard,

not just for Carson,

 but for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of

the story is that ANY

 

support one can give a junior racer would be

welcome, especially when

 the parents aren't in one of those upper tax

brackets. Any little bit of

 

encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs

for juniors is not only

 

good for the junior and his parents, but good for

the sport.

 

Brad







Luciano bailey wrote:

 

My opinion on any governing body is the same

there is enough revenue

  generated by Adult racers to subsidize junior

racing. Oregon could be

  the

next thing to the Olympic training grounds in

Colorado if Oregon racers

  start to embrace junior racing for it's true

potential. I don't know

  about

you but watching Carson Miller beating up on

adults is exciting and a

  tribute to the future of the the sport (Sorry

OLD GUYS).Let alone the

  invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his

kids as coach/active

  racer.

If every racer who could afford it sponsored one

junior racer that would

  



bring hundreds of juniors into a system that now

struggles to field 100

  at

any race. Compare that to euro racing where

juniors and development

  programs

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro

dominance of the sport

  in

almost all disciplines. No offense Lance,Levi,

and the rest. Just

  another

thought.







 From: dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com>

Reply-To: da-@preciseflight.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat]

Cannondale St?mptown Cy

=== message truncated ===









__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com



dansilv-@comcast.net

2005-10-05

This can be doubly beneficial: first, obviously, the kids get free or reduced entry.



Second, by working at races, they will see the headaches associated with putting on a race and will hopefully be a lot more appreciative of the efforts of the race promoters and more tolerant if certain "organizational challenges" (euphamism for something that rhymes with flustered duck) arise.



-------------- Original message --------------



 

I know that a good portion of the Bossen clan pay for their racing by

sticking around and cleaning up afterward. They raced the junior race

then waited 3+ hours to pick up cones and help put things away.



-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:50 PM

To: bra-@gmail.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would prefer to direct it to juniors who have no support due to their

parents limited financial circumstances and let the other families take

care of themselves. Of course, that is just me and there is no right or

wrong approach. I suppose the important thing is that we back up our

positions with actions. Under the circumstances, perhaps I need to look

for some racers that need support (All retired 50+ racers need not

apply).



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:22 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would pay $5 more per race myself to know that two juniors, who's

parent's may or may not have limited funds, got to race for cheaper,

maybe got really excited about bike racing and maybe one day became a

world champ. But that's just me.



Schreck, George wrote:

 

Brad, I do not want to get into a debate, but the decision to have

three

 children is itself a choice and often means that there will be

limitations on what benefits can be provided to each child. I think

if

 people want more children, they need to reflect on this issue and not

expect everyone to step up and subsidize their choice. I make choices



 every day that affect my options and I have to live with them. I am

not

 saying that they made the wrong decision. I am saying they made a

choice to spread a limited budget over more children, and that comes

with consequences. I would prefer to direct my charity to those

people

 who are not so lucky as to have choices. Again, that is a personal

decision, and no reflection on supporting peoples children which I am

willing to do to a point.



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:47 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



Since we're on the subject, myself and the Mount Bachelor Sport

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in the process of

establishing a junior road racing program. It will be a

pay-for-service

 program like their ski programs in which the kids receive coaching as

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The hope is that we

will

 get a consistent program going and have a bunch of kids from C.O.

going

 to OBRA as well as national and maybe one day international events.

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's effort to promote

junior development in other directions than just skiing and

snowboarding.



If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to hear from you.



Regarding George's comment, yes it is much of the parent's

responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an example, who's parents

support him in EVERY way, he also has two younger brothers who ski

race,

 

play baseball and do other sports as well and it takes a toll on their



 finances and sanity, especially when Carson's chosen sport is usually

a

 3 hour drive away and requires multiple $1500+ equpiment dings.

Carson's

 

parents make good money and I know for a fact that the equipment and

travel demands of cycling keep them working hard, not just for Carson,



 but for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of the story is that

ANY

 

support one can give a junior racer would be welcome, especially when

the parents aren't in one of those upper tax brackets. Any little bit

of

 

encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs for juniors is not

only

 

good for the junior and his parents, but good for the sport.



Brad







Luciano bailey wrote:

 

My opinion on any governing body is the same there is enough revenue



  generated by Adult racers to subsidize junior racing. Oregon could

be

  the

next thing to the Olympic training grounds in Colorado if Oregon

racers

  start to embrace junior racing for it's true potential. I don't know



  about

you but watching Carson Miller beating up on adults is exciting and

a

  tribute to the future of the the sport (Sorry OLD GUYS).Let alone

the

  invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his kids as

coach/active

  racer.

If every racer who could afford it sponsored one junior racer that

would

  



bring hundreds of juniors into a system that now struggles to field

100

  at

any race. Compare that to euro racing where juniors and development

programs

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro dominance of the

sport

  in

almost all disciplines. No offense Lance,Levi, and the rest. Just

another

thought.







 From: dan davis

Reply-To: da-@preciseflight.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cy

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0000



can you say UCI. the non UCI cost for the junior race is $12. the

UCI

   junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the UCI for all the work

they do

   for us? they do do work for us right?

Dan...

Hormann, Douglas J wrote:

 

You're not the only one Luciano. I was wondering the same thing.

Can

    someone explain the organization of cyclocross vs. other OBRA

events so

    we can understand the cost difference. I know there's insurance,

etc. to

    be paid; is it at a different rate for cyclocross events.?



Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Luciano bailey [mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:49 AM

To: bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com;

nwcyc-@topica.com;

    obra-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cyclocross

Classic- Sat

    10/8



Maybe off topic but why are the Junior cross races so expensive

with the

    

tremendous turnout for these events promoters would encourage

junior

    also

known as future racers by not making racing cost prohibitive. I

could be

    

alone here but after bike shopping and race fees it is quite a

leap for

    an

eight to ten race season. I think my main concern is the future

of

    Oregon

racing if the juniors programs are not somehow subsidized. Just

a

    thought.



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Hormann, Douglas J

2005-10-05





I don't think it's a matter of charity. It's more a matter of self interest for Oregon racing. Juniors become the next generation's adults. If you don't have a development program, they won't come. Just subsidizing entry fees won't do it because entry fees are a small part of the cost of cycling. This year there were a lot more juniors racing. The race fees stayed at the same $5.00 level, so what changed? Simple. For the last three years there's been a track program for juniors at Alpenrose. This year Nathan Hobson turned it into a junior only team. Result: This, along with some other teams that field younger juniors became the catalyst that brought even more kids to the races. Still, many promoters have been reluctant to have junior category events. Races that had events tailored to younger racers generally had good turnouts this summer. Not to pick on Cross Crusade, but why only non-competitive events for kids 12 and under. Sure, an 11 year old can sign up for the older junior events, but 45 minutes is pretty long for a youngster, and the difference in ability between a them and an 18 year old is pretty discouraging for a little kid.



Keeping the actual racing cheap is one part of it, but the infrastructure of teams, races with junior categories, and support by the promoters and OBRA all working together is what will make the difference.



Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:50 PM

To: bra-@gmail.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would prefer to direct it to juniors who have no support due to their parents limited financial circumstances and let the other families take care of themselves. Of course, that is just me and there is no right or wrong approach. I suppose the important thing is that we back up our positions with actions. Under the circumstances, perhaps I need to look for some racers that need support (All retired 50+ racers need not apply).



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:22 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would pay $5 more per race myself to know that two juniors, who's

parent's may or may not have limited funds, got to race for cheaper,

maybe got really excited about bike racing and maybe one day became a

world champ. But that's just me.



Schreck, George wrote:

 

Brad, I do not want to get into a debate, but the decision to have three

children is itself a choice and often means that there will be

limitations on what benefits can be provided to each child. I think if

people want more children, they need to reflect on this issue and not

expect everyone to step up and subsidize their choice. I make choices

every day that affect my options and I have to live with them. I am not

saying that they made the wrong decision. I am saying they made a

choice to spread a limited budget over more children, and that comes

with consequences. I would prefer to direct my charity to those people

who are not so lucky as to have choices. Again, that is a personal

decision, and no reflection on supporting peoples children which I am

willing to do to a point.



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:47 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



Since we're on the subject, myself and the Mount Bachelor Sport

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in the process of

establishing a junior road racing program. It will be a pay-for-service

program like their ski programs in which the kids receive coaching as

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The hope is that we will

get a consistent program going and have a bunch of kids from C.O. going

to OBRA as well as national and maybe one day   international events.

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's effort to promote

junior development in other directions than just skiing and

snowboarding.



If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to hear from you.



Regarding George's comment, yes it is much of the parent's

responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an example, who's parents

support him in EVERY way, he also has two younger brothers who ski race,



play baseball and do other sports as well and it takes a toll on their

finances and sanity, especially when Carson's chosen sport is usually a

3 hour drive away and requires multiple $1500+ equpiment dings. Carson's



parents make good money and I know for a fact that the equipment and

travel demands of cycling keep them working hard, not just for Carson,

but for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of the story is that ANY



support one can give a junior racer would be welcome, especially when

the parents aren't in one of those upper tax brackets. Any little bit of



encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs for juniors is not only



good for the junior and his parents, but good for the sport.



Brad







Luciano bailey wrote:

 

My opinion on any governing body is the same there is enough revenue

generated by Adult racers to subsidize junior racing. Oregon could be

the

next thing to the Olympic training grounds in Colorado if Oregon racers

start to embrace junior racing for it's true potential. I don't know

about

you but watching Carson Miller beating up on adults is exciting and a

tribute to the future of the the sport (Sorry OLD GUYS).Let alone the

invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his kids as coach/active

racer.

If every racer who could afford it sponsored one junior racer that would





bring hundreds of juniors into a system that now struggles to field 100

at

any race. Compare that to euro racing where juniors and development

programs

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro dominance of the sport

in

almost all disciplines. No offense Lance,Levi, and the rest. Just

another

thought.







 From: dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com>

Reply-To: da-@preciseflight.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cy

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0000



can you say UCI. the non UCI cost for the junior race is $12. the UCI

junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the UCI for all the work they do

for us? they do do work for us right?

Dan...

Hormann, Douglas J wrote:

 

You're not the only one Luciano. I was wondering the same thing. Can

someone explain the organization of cyclocross vs. other OBRA events so

we can understand the cost difference. I know there's insurance, etc. to

be paid; is it at a different rate for cyclocross events.?



   Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Luciano bailey [mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:49 AM

To: bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com; nwcyc-@topica.com;

obra-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cyclocross Classic- Sat

10/8



Maybe off topic but why are the Junior cross races so expensive with the



tremendous turnout for these events promoters would encourage junior

also

known as future racers by not making racing cost prohibitive. I could be



alone here but after bike shopping and race fees it is quite a leap for

an

eight to ten race season. I think my main concern is the future of

Oregon

racing if the juniors programs are not somehow subsidized. Just a

thought.



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



_________________________________________________________________

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------





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It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone

else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,

distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received

this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and

destroy all copies.



==============================================================================



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------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



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cmur-@obra.org

2005-10-05





I know that a good portion of the Bossen clan pay for their racing by

sticking around and cleaning up afterward. They raced the junior race

then waited 3+ hours to pick up cones and help put things away.



-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:50 PM

To: bra-@gmail.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would prefer to direct it to juniors who have no support due to their

parents limited financial circumstances and let the other families take

care of themselves. Of course, that is just me and there is no right or

wrong approach. I suppose the important thing is that we back up our

positions with actions. Under the circumstances, perhaps I need to look

for some racers that need support (All retired 50+ racers need not

apply).



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:22 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would pay $5 more per race myself to know that two juniors, who's

parent's may or may not have limited funds, got to race for cheaper,

maybe got really excited about bike racing and maybe one day became a

world champ. But that's just me.



Schreck, George wrote:

 

Brad, I do not want to get into a debate, but the decision to have

three

 children is itself a choice and often means that there will be

limitations on what benefits can be provided to each child. I think

if

 people want more children, they need to reflect on this issue and not

expect everyone to step up and subsidize their choice. I make choices



 every day that affect my options and I have to live with them. I am

not

 saying that they made the wrong decision. I am saying they made a

choice to spread a limited budget over more children, and that comes

with consequences. I would prefer to direct my charity to those

people

 who are not so lucky as to have choices. Again, that is a personal

decision, and no reflection on supporting peoples children which I am

willing to do to a point.



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:47 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



Since we're on the subject, myself and the Mount Bachelor Sport

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in the process of

establishing a junior road racing program. It will be a

pay-for-service

 program like their ski programs in which the kids receive coaching as

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The hope is that we

will

 get a consistent program going and have a bunch of kids from C.O.

going

 to OBRA as well as national and maybe one day   international events.

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's effort to promote

junior development in other directions than just skiing and

snowboarding.



If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to hear from you.



Regarding George's comment, yes it is much of the parent's

responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an example, who's parents

support him in EVERY way, he also has two younger brothers who ski

race,

 

play baseball and do other sports as well and it takes a toll on their



 finances and sanity, especially when Carson's chosen sport is usually

a

 3 hour drive away and requires multiple $1500+ equpiment dings.

Carson's

 

parents make good money and I know for a fact that the equipment and

travel demands of cycling keep them working hard, not just for Carson,



 but for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of the story is that

ANY

 

support one can give a junior racer would be welcome, especially when

the parents aren't in one of those upper tax brackets. Any little bit

of

 

encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs for juniors is not

only

 

good for the junior and his parents, but good for the sport.



Brad







Luciano bailey wrote:

 

My opinion on any governing body is the same there is enough revenue



  generated by Adult racers to subsidize junior racing. Oregon could

be

  the

next thing to the Olympic training grounds in Colorado if Oregon

racers

  start to embrace junior racing for it's true potential. I don't know



  about

you but watching Carson Miller beating up on adults is exciting and

a

  tribute to the future of the the sport (Sorry OLD GUYS).Let alone

the

  invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his kids as

coach/active

  racer.

If every racer who could afford it sponsored one junior racer that

would

  



bring hundreds of juniors into a system that now struggles to field

100

  at

any race. Compare that to euro racing where juniors and development

programs

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro dominance of the

sport

  in

almost all disciplines. No offense Lance,Levi, and the rest. Just

another

thought.







 From: dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com>

Reply-To: da-@preciseflight.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cy

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0000



can you say UCI. the non UCI cost for the junior race is $12. the

UCI

   junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the UCI for all the work

they do

   for us? they do do work for us right?

Dan...

Hormann, Douglas J wrote:

 

You're not the only one Luciano. I was wondering the same thing.

Can

    someone explain the organization of cyclocross vs. other OBRA

events so

    we can understand the cost difference. I know there's insurance,

etc. to

    be paid; is it at a different rate for cyclocross events.?



   Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Luciano bailey [mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:49 AM

To: bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com;

nwcyc-@topica.com;

    obra-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cyclocross

Classic- Sat

    10/8



Maybe off topic but why are the Junior cross races so expensive

with the

    

tremendous turnout for these events promoters would encourage

junior

    also

known as future racers by not making racing cost prohibitive. I

could be

    

alone here but after bike shopping and race fees it is quite a

leap for

    an

eight to ten race season. I think my main concern is the future

of

    Oregon

racing if the juniors programs are not somehow subsidized. Just

a

    thought.



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------

 



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It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by

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 else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,

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 destroy all copies.

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Jonathan Maus

2005-10-05

Local non-profit Bicycles and Ideas for Kids Empowerment (b.i.k.e., get it) takes inner-city kids and shows them the way of the bike. Many of them do track and other racing.

http://kidsofbike.org/



This is a more than worthy group to support.



--Jonathan

--------------------------

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http://bikeportland.org

(503) 283-8855

cell (503) 706-8804

Subscribe via email:

http://bikeportland.org/subscribe.php



----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Baumann

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:04 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing







This is a great topic, but IMO it is much more than

just race fees that we need to address. My guess is

that, for the most part, the juniors that actually get

to the level of competing can fend for themsleves with

family assistance. It is the ones that do not even

own a bicycle that really need our assistance.

Cycling, especially racing, is a sport for the

privileged in our society, and anything we can do as a

body of people to help others to participate is a good

thing. I certainly don't have the answers, but am

willing to help seek them out. It would be great for

us to continue this discussion on reaching out to the

community, if people are interested.

Brian









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Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com



Brian Baumann

2005-10-05





This is a great topic, but IMO it is much more than

just race fees that we need to address. My guess is

that, for the most part, the juniors that actually get

to the level of competing can fend for themsleves with

family assistance. It is the ones that do not even

own a bicycle that really need our assistance.

Cycling, especially racing, is a sport for the

privileged in our society, and anything we can do as a

body of people to help others to participate is a good

thing. I certainly don't have the answers, but am

willing to help seek them out. It would be great for

us to continue this discussion on reaching out to the

community, if people are interested.

Brian









__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com



Schreck, George

2005-10-05

I agree more racers is good and juniors are the future of racing. I only

am asking why should we pay for juniors whose parents can afford to pay.

I have no problem with a program that attracts poor inner city juniors

or others of similar means and subsidizes their involvement.



________________________________



From: Gary Malcolm [mailto:gary.m-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:20 PM

To: Schreck, George; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] junior racing





You are WAY off base here!



I don't have kids... nor do I want the little life-sucking vampires but

that is not what we're talking here. This is our sport and the more

participants, the more events, the more categories and the more support

the better off we'll all be. More junior racers by whatever means leads

to better cycling, more cyclists and more media coverage of our events

not only because we have more butts on bicycle seats but because it

promotes an image of the sport that excites and encourages the broader

public to participate.









--

Gary Malcolm

       /\                     

      / \/\     ........    __o    

   /\/      \ ---... ..    \<,

_/          \_______(_)/(_)   



------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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==============================================================================



Schreck, George

2005-10-05



I would prefer to direct it to juniors who have no support due to their parents limited financial circumstances and let the other families take care of themselves. Of course, that is just me and there is no right or wrong approach. I suppose the important thing is that we back up our positions with actions. Under the circumstances, perhaps I need to look for some racers that need support (All retired 50+ racers need not apply).



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:22 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



I would pay $5 more per race myself to know that two juniors, who's

parent's may or may not have limited funds, got to race for cheaper,

maybe got really excited about bike racing and maybe one day became a

world champ. But that's just me.



Schreck, George wrote:

 

Brad, I do not want to get into a debate, but the decision to have three

children is itself a choice and often means that there will be

limitations on what benefits can be provided to each child. I think if

people want more children, they need to reflect on this issue and not

expect everyone to step up and subsidize their choice. I make choices

every day that affect my options and I have to live with them. I am not

saying that they made the wrong decision. I am saying they made a

choice to spread a limited budget over more children, and that comes

with consequences. I would prefer to direct my charity to those people

who are not so lucky as to have choices. Again, that is a personal

decision, and no reflection on supporting peoples children which I am

willing to do to a point.



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:47 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



Since we're on the subject, myself and the Mount Bachelor Sport

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in the process of

establishing a junior road racing program. It will be a pay-for-service

program like their ski programs in which the kids receive coaching as

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The hope is that we will

get a consistent program going and have a bunch of kids from C.O. going

to OBRA as well as national and maybe one day   international events.

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's effort to promote

junior development in other directions than just skiing and

snowboarding.



If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to hear from you.



Regarding George's comment, yes it is much of the parent's

responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an example, who's parents

support him in EVERY way, he also has two younger brothers who ski race,



play baseball and do other sports as well and it takes a toll on their

finances and sanity, especially when Carson's chosen sport is usually a

3 hour drive away and requires multiple $1500+ equpiment dings. Carson's



parents make good money and I know for a fact that the equipment and

travel demands of cycling keep them working hard, not just for Carson,

but for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of the story is that ANY



support one can give a junior racer would be welcome, especially when

the parents aren't in one of those upper tax brackets. Any little bit of



encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs for juniors is not only



good for the junior and his parents, but good for the sport.



Brad







Luciano bailey wrote:

 

My opinion on any governing body is the same there is enough revenue

generated by Adult racers to subsidize junior racing. Oregon could be

the

next thing to the Olympic training grounds in Colorado if Oregon racers

start to embrace junior racing for it's true potential. I don't know

about

you but watching Carson Miller beating up on adults is exciting and a

tribute to the future of the the sport (Sorry OLD GUYS).Let alone the

invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his kids as coach/active

racer.

If every racer who could afford it sponsored one junior racer that would





bring hundreds of juniors into a system that now struggles to field 100

at

any race. Compare that to euro racing where juniors and development

programs

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro dominance of the sport

in

almost all disciplines. No offense Lance,Levi, and the rest. Just

another

thought.







 From: dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com>

Reply-To: da-@preciseflight.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cy

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0000



can you say UCI. the non UCI cost for the junior race is $12. the UCI

junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the UCI for all the work they do

for us? they do do work for us right?

Dan...

Hormann, Douglas J wrote:

 

You're not the only one Luciano. I was wondering the same thing. Can

someone explain the organization of cyclocross vs. other OBRA events so

we can understand the cost difference. I know there's insurance, etc. to

be paid; is it at a different rate for cyclocross events.?



   Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Luciano bailey [mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:49 AM

To: bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com; nwcyc-@topica.com;

obra-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cyclocross Classic- Sat

10/8



Maybe off topic but why are the Junior cross races so expensive with the



tremendous turnout for these events promoters would encourage junior

also

known as future racers by not making racing cost prohibitive. I could be



alone here but after bike shopping and race fees it is quite a leap for

an

eight to ten race season. I think my main concern is the future of

Oregon

racing if the juniors programs are not somehow subsidized. Just a

thought.



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

addressee, is unauthorized.



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distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received

this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and

destroy all copies.



==============================================================================



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==============================================================================



Jonathan C. Puskas

2005-10-05



Instead of having $1500 bicycles, why don't we

consider minimizing the cost of Junior racing by

limiting the type of equipment used?



Why not use gear-restricted single speeds for

instance?



I grew up ski racing (it led to my bike racing--okay,

bike purchasing--addiction) and I know how expensive

each sport is. However, entries are generally the

smallest portion of the expenses yet we expect

promoters (those making the smallest margins) and

other racers to subsidize entries.



I just think we may be looking in the wrong direction

for cost savings for Juniors.



I also think that those who want to support Juniors

can always choose to funnel money through Junior Teams

(such as Forza Jet, FM, BBC, and others) if they are

so inclined. I guess what I'm saying is that

increasing EVERYONE'S entries doesn't seem like the

only reasonable approach.



Just my $.02 (worth about $.005),

Puskas



--- "Brad Cockman, DC" <bra-@gmail.com> wrote:



 Since we're on the subject, myself and the Mount

Bachelor Sport

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in

the process of

establishing a junior road racing program. It will

be a pay-for-service

program like their ski programs in which the kids

receive coaching as

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The

hope is that we will

get a consistent program going and have a bunch of

kids from C.O. going

to OBRA as well as national and maybe one day

international events.

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's

effort to promote

junior development in other directions than just

skiing and

snowboarding.



If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to

hear from you.



Regarding George's comment, yes it is much of the

parent's

responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an

example, who's parents

support him in EVERY way, he also has two younger

brothers who ski race,

play baseball and do other sports as well and it

takes a toll on their

finances and sanity, especially when Carson's chosen

sport is usually a

3 hour drive away and requires multiple $1500+

equpiment dings. Carson's

parents make good money and I know for a fact that

the equipment and

travel demands of cycling keep them working hard,

not just for Carson,

but for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of

the story is that ANY

support one can give a junior racer would be

welcome, especially when

the parents aren't in one of those upper tax

brackets. Any little bit of

encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs for

juniors is not only

good for the junior and his parents, but good for

the sport.



Brad







Luciano bailey wrote:

 

My opinion on any governing body is the same there

is enough revenue

 generated by Adult racers to subsidize junior

racing. Oregon could be

 the

next thing to the Olympic training grounds in

Colorado if Oregon racers

 start to embrace junior racing for it's true

potential. I don't know

 about

you but watching Carson Miller beating up on

adults is exciting and a

 tribute to the future of the the sport (Sorry OLD

GUYS).Let alone the

 invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his

kids as coach/active

 racer.

If every racer who could afford it sponsored one

junior racer that would

 

bring hundreds of juniors into a system that now

struggles to field 100

 at

any race. Compare that to euro racing where

juniors and development

 programs

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro

dominance of the sport

 in

almost all disciplines. No offense Lance,Levi, and

the rest. Just

 another

thought.







 From: dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com>

Reply-To: da-@preciseflight.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat]

Cannondale St?mptown Cy

  Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0000



can you say UCI. the non UCI cost for the junior

race is $12. the UCI

  junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the UCI

for all the work they do

  for us? they do do work for us right?

Dan...

Hormann, Douglas J wrote:

 

You're not the only one Luciano. I was

wondering the same thing. Can

   someone explain the organization of cyclocross

vs. other OBRA events so

   we can understand the cost difference. I know

there's insurance, etc. to

   be paid; is it at a different rate for

cyclocross events.?

   

   Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Luciano bailey

[mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]

   Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:49 AM

To: bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com;

nwcyc-@topica.com;

   obra-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown

Cyclocross Classic- Sat

   10/8



Maybe off topic but why are the Junior cross

races so expensive with the

   

tremendous turnout for these events promoters

would encourage junior

   also

known as future racers by not making racing

cost prohibitive. I could be

   

alone here but after bike shopping and race

fees it is quite a leap for

   an

eight to ten race season. I think my main

concern is the future of

   Oregon

racing if the juniors programs are not somehow

subsidized. Just a

   thought.



To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

  To respond to the list manager send to

cmur-@obra.org

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obra-uns-@topica.com

  

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get it now!

 

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Jonathan C. Puskas

159 Fifth Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

impu-@yahoo.com



"If you're gonna charge...charge hard!"







__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com



Brad Cockman, DC

2005-10-05



I would pay $5 more per race myself to know that two juniors, who's

parent's may or may not have limited funds, got to race for cheaper,

maybe got really excited about bike racing and maybe one day became a

world champ. But that's just me.



Schreck, George wrote:

 

Brad, I do not want to get into a debate, but the decision to have three

children is itself a choice and often means that there will be

limitations on what benefits can be provided to each child. I think if

people want more children, they need to reflect on this issue and not

expect everyone to step up and subsidize their choice. I make choices

every day that affect my options and I have to live with them. I am not

saying that they made the wrong decision. I am saying they made a

choice to spread a limited budget over more children, and that comes

with consequences. I would prefer to direct my charity to those people

who are not so lucky as to have choices. Again, that is a personal

decision, and no reflection on supporting peoples children which I am

willing to do to a point.



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:47 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



Since we're on the subject, myself and the Mount Bachelor Sport

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in the process of

establishing a junior road racing program. It will be a pay-for-service

program like their ski programs in which the kids receive coaching as

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The hope is that we will

get a consistent program going and have a bunch of kids from C.O. going

to OBRA as well as national and maybe one day   international events.

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's effort to promote

junior development in other directions than just skiing and

snowboarding.



If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to hear from you.



Regarding George's comment, yes it is much of the parent's

responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an example, who's parents

support him in EVERY way, he also has two younger brothers who ski race,



play baseball and do other sports as well and it takes a toll on their

finances and sanity, especially when Carson's chosen sport is usually a

3 hour drive away and requires multiple $1500+ equpiment dings. Carson's



parents make good money and I know for a fact that the equipment and

travel demands of cycling keep them working hard, not just for Carson,

but for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of the story is that ANY



support one can give a junior racer would be welcome, especially when

the parents aren't in one of those upper tax brackets. Any little bit of



encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs for juniors is not only



good for the junior and his parents, but good for the sport.



Brad







Luciano bailey wrote:

 

My opinion on any governing body is the same there is enough revenue

generated by Adult racers to subsidize junior racing. Oregon could be

the

next thing to the Olympic training grounds in Colorado if Oregon racers

start to embrace junior racing for it's true potential. I don't know

about

you but watching Carson Miller beating up on adults is exciting and a

tribute to the future of the the sport (Sorry OLD GUYS).Let alone the

invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his kids as coach/active

racer.

If every racer who could afford it sponsored one junior racer that would





bring hundreds of juniors into a system that now struggles to field 100

at

any race. Compare that to euro racing where juniors and development

programs

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro dominance of the sport

in

almost all disciplines. No offense Lance,Levi, and the rest. Just

another

thought.







 From: dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com>

Reply-To: da-@preciseflight.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cy

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0000



can you say UCI. the non UCI cost for the junior race is $12. the UCI

junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the UCI for all the work they do

for us? they do do work for us right?

Dan...

Hormann, Douglas J wrote:

 

You're not the only one Luciano. I was wondering the same thing. Can

someone explain the organization of cyclocross vs. other OBRA events so

we can understand the cost difference. I know there's insurance, etc. to

be paid; is it at a different rate for cyclocross events.?



   Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Luciano bailey [mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:49 AM

To: bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com; nwcyc-@topica.com;

obra-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cyclocross Classic- Sat

10/8



Maybe off topic but why are the Junior cross races so expensive with the



tremendous turnout for these events promoters would encourage junior

also

known as future racers by not making racing cost prohibitive. I could be



alone here but after bike shopping and race fees it is quite a leap for

an

eight to ten race season. I think my main concern is the future of

Oregon

racing if the juniors programs are not somehow subsidized. Just a

thought.



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



_________________________________________________________________

FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now!

http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com







------------------------------------------------------------------------------





This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone

else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,

distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received

this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and

destroy all copies.



==============================================================================



Schreck, George

2005-10-05



Brad, I do not want to get into a debate, but the decision to have three children is itself a choice and often means that there will be limitations on what benefits can be provided to each child. I think if people want more children, they need to reflect on this issue and not expect everyone to step up and subsidize their choice. I make choices every day that affect my options and I have to live with them. I am not saying that they made the wrong decision. I am saying they made a choice to spread a limited budget over more children, and that comes with consequences. I would prefer to direct my charity to those people who are not so lucky as to have choices. Again, that is a personal decision, and no reflection on supporting peoples children which I am willing to do to a point.



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:47 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] junior racing



Since we're on the subject, myself and the Mount Bachelor Sport

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in the process of

establishing a junior road racing program. It will be a pay-for-service

program like their ski programs in which the kids receive coaching as

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The hope is that we will

get a consistent program going and have a bunch of kids from C.O. going

to OBRA as well as national and maybe one day   international events.

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's effort to promote

junior development in other directions than just skiing and

snowboarding.



If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to hear from you.



Regarding George's comment, yes it is much of the parent's

responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an example, who's parents

support him in EVERY way, he also has two younger brothers who ski race,

play baseball and do other sports as well and it takes a toll on their

finances and sanity, especially when Carson's chosen sport is usually a

3 hour drive away and requires multiple $1500+ equpiment dings. Carson's

parents make good money and I know for a fact that the equipment and

travel demands of cycling keep them working hard, not just for Carson,

but for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of the story is that ANY

support one can give a junior racer would be welcome, especially when

the parents aren't in one of those upper tax brackets. Any little bit of

encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs for juniors is not only

good for the junior and his parents, but good for the sport.



Brad







Luciano bailey wrote:

 

My opinion on any governing body is the same there is enough revenue

generated by Adult racers to subsidize junior racing. Oregon could be

the

next thing to the Olympic training grounds in Colorado if Oregon racers

start to embrace junior racing for it's true potential. I don't know

about

you but watching Carson Miller beating up on adults is exciting and a

tribute to the future of the the sport (Sorry OLD GUYS).Let alone the

invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his kids as coach/active

racer.

If every racer who could afford it sponsored one junior racer that would



bring hundreds of juniors into a system that now struggles to field 100

at

any race. Compare that to euro racing where juniors and development

programs

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro dominance of the sport

in

almost all disciplines. No offense Lance,Levi, and the rest. Just

another

thought.







 From: dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com>

Reply-To: da-@preciseflight.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cy

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0000



can you say UCI. the non UCI cost for the junior race is $12. the UCI

junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the UCI for all the work they do

for us? they do do work for us right?

Dan...

Hormann, Douglas J wrote:

 

You're not the only one Luciano. I was wondering the same thing. Can

someone explain the organization of cyclocross vs. other OBRA events so

we can understand the cost difference. I know there's insurance, etc. to

be paid; is it at a different rate for cyclocross events.?



   Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Luciano bailey [mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:49 AM

To: bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com; nwcyc-@topica.com;

obra-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cyclocross Classic- Sat

10/8



Maybe off topic but why are the Junior cross races so expensive with the



tremendous turnout for these events promoters would encourage junior

also

known as future racers by not making racing cost prohibitive. I could be



alone here but after bike shopping and race fees it is quite a leap for

an

eight to ten race season. I think my main concern is the future of

Oregon

racing if the juniors programs are not somehow subsidized. Just a

thought.



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



_________________________________________________________________

FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now!

http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com







------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



==============================================================================



Brad Cockman, DC

2005-10-05



Since we're on the subject, myself and the Mount Bachelor Sport

Education Foundation (nee ski ed. foundation) are in the process of

establishing a junior road racing program. It will be a pay-for-service

program like their ski programs in which the kids receive coaching as

well as travel and equipment deals, camps etc. The hope is that we will

get a consistent program going and have a bunch of kids from C.O. going

to OBRA as well as national and maybe one day   international events.

This program will fit hand-in-hand with the MBSEF's effort to promote

junior development in other directions than just skiing and

snowboarding.



If anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to hear from you.



Regarding George's comment, yes it is much of the parent's

responsibility, but using Carson Miller as an example, who's parents

support him in EVERY way, he also has two younger brothers who ski race,

play baseball and do other sports as well and it takes a toll on their

finances and sanity, especially when Carson's chosen sport is usually a

3 hour drive away and requires multiple $1500+ equpiment dings. Carson's

parents make good money and I know for a fact that the equipment and

travel demands of cycling keep them working hard, not just for Carson,

but for all of their kids. So I guess the moral of the story is that ANY

support one can give a junior racer would be welcome, especially when

the parents aren't in one of those upper tax brackets. Any little bit of

encouragement in the way of offsetting the costs for juniors is not only

good for the junior and his parents, but good for the sport.



Brad







Luciano bailey wrote:

 

My opinion on any governing body is the same there is enough revenue

generated by Adult racers to subsidize junior racing. Oregon could be

the

next thing to the Olympic training grounds in Colorado if Oregon racers

start to embrace junior racing for it's true potential. I don't know

about

you but watching Carson Miller beating up on adults is exciting and a

tribute to the future of the the sport (Sorry OLD GUYS).Let alone the

invaluble experience Kent Johnston brings to his kids as coach/active

racer.

If every racer who could afford it sponsored one junior racer that would



bring hundreds of juniors into a system that now struggles to field 100

at

any race. Compare that to euro racing where juniors and development

programs

are there most precious commodity. Thus the euro dominance of the sport

in

almost all disciplines. No offense Lance,Levi, and the rest. Just

another

thought.







 From: dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com>

Reply-To: da-@preciseflight.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cy

Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0000



can you say UCI. the non UCI cost for the junior race is $12. the UCI

junior is $20, some of that $20 goes to the UCI for all the work they do

for us? they do do work for us right?

Dan...

Hormann, Douglas J wrote:

 

You're not the only one Luciano. I was wondering the same thing. Can

someone explain the organization of cyclocross vs. other OBRA events so

we can understand the cost difference. I know there's insurance, etc. to

be paid; is it at a different rate for cyclocross events.?



   Doug Hormann





-----Original Message-----

From: Luciano bailey [mailto:ride-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:49 AM

To: bri-@halffastvelo.com; ob-@topica.com; nwcyc-@topica.com;

obra-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cannondale St?mptown Cyclocross Classic- Sat

10/8



Maybe off topic but why are the Junior cross races so expensive with the



tremendous turnout for these events promoters would encourage junior

also

known as future racers by not making racing cost prohibitive. I could be



alone here but after bike shopping and race fees it is quite a leap for

an

eight to ten race season. I think my main concern is the future of

Oregon

racing if the juniors programs are not somehow subsidized. Just a

thought.



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