Luciano bailey

The can will cite you just as they would a car





 From: Michael O'Hair <moh-@easystreet.com>

Reply-To: moh-@easystreet.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] registering bicycles and traffic violations

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 14:51:17 -0700



It looks like it's come around again. Phil Stanford's column in the Oct 7

Portland Tribune has a paragraph on registering bicycles and requiring

"bike

riders over a certain age to get licenses." What caught my eye was his

assertion that bicyclists are not punished for infractions the same as

motorists. He writes: "If the cops pull over a bicyclist for running a

red

light, what are they going to do, take away his license?"



It is my understanding that if the police pull over a bicyclist for a

traffic violation and the bicyclist has no ID, the police can arrest the

bicyclist and impound their bike.



So the question for the lawyers and police officers on this list is

twofold:

What can the police do in case of a "serious" traffic violation such as

running a stop light and what are they likely to do?



Thanks.



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

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Doug Hormann

Ron, I'm afraid you're on your own their. I've got one intersection on my

commute that has been repaved and I can only guess at where the loop is. If

it doesn't change, I wait for clear traffic and go. If I get ticketed (yes,

cops get tickets too)I'll explain the situation and hope for the best,

however I probably won't go with one of my buddies watching.



-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Magnus [mailto:ro-@hevanet.com]

Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 3:33 PM

To: Doug Hormann

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] registering bicycles and traffic violations





Hi Doug,



Any suggestions for those intersections where one can not see the loops?

One that comes to mind is S.W. Vermont and Oleson, another is S.W. 185th

and Rock Creek Blvd. (all corners).



Ron



On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Doug Hormann wrote:



 Vicki,



Try stopping with your wheels directly over and in line with the induction

loop in the road. You can see where they are by the thin cuts in the

pavement. This causes the greatest amount of induction loss in the loop

and

 will give you a better chance of triggering the light. For a fuller

explanation and a graphic of how these gizmos work, surf to this link:



http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/detection.htm



Doug

Votre policier local.



-----Original Message-----

From: Vicki Schroeder [mailto:vicki_sc-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 9:40 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] registering bicycles and traffic violations







I have a question about bikes and dealing with traffic lights that

can't be triggered by bicycles - particularly at left turn light

signals. What are we supposed to do? Sit there through x?? light cycles

till a car shows up to trigger it or make the turn safely when no

traffic is coming from the front, even though that requires "running"

the light?



Always wondered about this one ........ thoughts? Official policies??



Thanks

Vicki



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

.David.Auker.

Here's a tip for SW Portland riders tripping the light sensors.

Southbound on Terwilliger, at the Barbur light: where the bike logo

shows the light sensor is at least 6 inches wrong...you need to position

to the right of where you would think. I've worked with the City on

this, and they did come in and paint an appropriate wrecktangle there,

but it has since worn off...



David



Vicki Schroeder wrote:



 Thanks for the link Doug - it has a good explanation and nice

additional links. I know some of the sensors do work for bikes - and

some of the bike lanes even have small sensors on them that work well

at detecting bikes. But I have had trouble at a lot of intersections -

particularly on my carbon bike.



If we try out the "correct" bike positioning and still get no response

from the sensors should we be reporting these signal sensors as

"broken"?



Vicki



--- Doug Hormann <djhor-@verizon.net> wrote:







 Vicki,



Try stopping with your wheels directly over and in line with the

induction

loop in the road. You can see where they are by the thin cuts in the

pavement. This causes the greatest amount of induction loss in the

loop and

will give you a better chance of triggering the light. For a fuller

explanation and a graphic of how these gizmos work, surf to this

link:





    

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/detection.htm





 Doug

Votre policier local.



-----Original Message-----

From: Vicki Schroeder [mailto:vicki_sc-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 9:40 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] registering bicycles and traffic violations







I have a question about bikes and dealing with traffic lights that

can't be triggered by bicycles - particularly at left turn light

signals. What are we supposed to do? Sit there through x?? light

cycles

till a car shows up to trigger it or make the turn safely when no

traffic is coming from the front, even though that requires "running"

the light?



Always wondered about this one ........ thoughts? Official policies??



Thanks

Vicki









    

JOHN FORBES

Position the chain ring over the intersection of the wires, not the wheels.

John Forbes

2126 NE 12th Ave.

Portland, OR 97212

503-331-6658

----- Original Message -----

From: Vicki Schroeder<mailto:vicki_sc-@yahoo.com>

To: Doug Hormann<mailto:djhor-@verizon.net>

Cc: ob-@topica.com<mailto:ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 4:58 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] registering bicycles and traffic violations







Thanks for the link Doug - it has a good explanation and nice

additional links. I know some of the sensors do work for bikes - and

some of the bike lanes even have small sensors on them that work well

at detecting bikes. But I have had trouble at a lot of intersections -

particularly on my carbon bike.



If we try out the "correct" bike positioning and still get no response

from the sensors should we be reporting these signal sensors as

"broken"?



Vicki



--- Doug Hormann <djhor-@verizon.net<mailto:djhor-@verizon.net>> wrote:



> Vicki,

>

> Try stopping with your wheels directly over and in line with the

> induction

> loop in the road. You can see where they are by the thin cuts in the

> pavement. This causes the greatest amount of induction loss in the

> loop and

> will give you a better chance of triggering the light. For a fuller

> explanation and a graphic of how these gizmos work, surf to this

> link:

>

>

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/detection.htm<http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/detection.htm>

>

> Doug

> Votre policier local.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Vicki Schroeder [mailto:vicki_sc-@yahoo.com]

> Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 9:40 AM

> To: ob-@topica.com<mailto:ob-@topica.com>

> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] registering bicycles and traffic violations

>

>

>

> I have a question about bikes and dealing with traffic lights that

> can't be triggered by bicycles - particularly at left turn light

> signals. What are we supposed to do? Sit there through x?? light

> cycles

> till a car shows up to trigger it or make the turn safely when no

> traffic is coming from the front, even though that requires "running"

> the light?

>

> Always wondered about this one ........ thoughts? Official policies??

>

> Thanks

> Vicki

>

>

>

>

Andrew Beehler

As far as ticketing goes, I have a friend who did receive a ticket for

running a red light. But just in case you are wondering, the judge told him

that it would not affect his auto insurance.







-----Original Message-----

From: Vicki Schroeder [mailto:vicki_sc-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 4:59 PM

To: Doug Hormann

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] registering bicycles and traffic violations





Thanks for the link Doug - it has a good explanation and nice

additional links. I know some of the sensors do work for bikes - and

some of the bike lanes even have small sensors on them that work well

at detecting bikes. But I have had trouble at a lot of intersections -

particularly on my carbon bike.



If we try out the "correct" bike positioning and still get no response

from the sensors should we be reporting these signal sensors as

"broken"?



Vicki



--- Doug Hormann <djhor-@verizon.net> wrote:



 Vicki,



Try stopping with your wheels directly over and in line with the

induction

loop in the road. You can see where they are by the thin cuts in the

pavement. This causes the greatest amount of induction loss in the

loop and

will give you a better chance of triggering the light. For a fuller

explanation and a graphic of how these gizmos work, surf to this

link:

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/detection.htm

 

Doug

Votre policier local.



-----Original Message-----

From: Vicki Schroeder [mailto:vicki_sc-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 9:40 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] registering bicycles and traffic violations







I have a question about bikes and dealing with traffic lights that

can't be triggered by bicycles - particularly at left turn light

signals. What are we supposed to do? Sit there through x?? light

cycles

till a car shows up to trigger it or make the turn safely when no

traffic is coming from the front, even though that requires "running"

the light?



Always wondered about this one ........ thoughts? Official policies??



Thanks

Vicki

Vicki Schroeder

Thanks for the link Doug - it has a good explanation and nice

additional links. I know some of the sensors do work for bikes - and

some of the bike lanes even have small sensors on them that work well

at detecting bikes. But I have had trouble at a lot of intersections -

particularly on my carbon bike.



If we try out the "correct" bike positioning and still get no response

from the sensors should we be reporting these signal sensors as

"broken"?



Vicki



--- Doug Hormann <djhor-@verizon.net> wrote:



 Vicki,



Try stopping with your wheels directly over and in line with the

induction

loop in the road. You can see where they are by the thin cuts in the

pavement. This causes the greatest amount of induction loss in the

loop and

will give you a better chance of triggering the light. For a fuller

explanation and a graphic of how these gizmos work, surf to this

link:

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/detection.htm

 

Doug

Votre policier local.



-----Original Message-----

From: Vicki Schroeder [mailto:vicki_sc-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 9:40 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] registering bicycles and traffic violations







I have a question about bikes and dealing with traffic lights that

can't be triggered by bicycles - particularly at left turn light

signals. What are we supposed to do? Sit there through x?? light

cycles

till a car shows up to trigger it or make the turn safely when no

traffic is coming from the front, even though that requires "running"

the light?



Always wondered about this one ........ thoughts? Official policies??



Thanks

Vicki

Doug Hormann

Vicki,



Try stopping with your wheels directly over and in line with the induction

loop in the road. You can see where they are by the thin cuts in the

pavement. This causes the greatest amount of induction loss in the loop and

will give you a better chance of triggering the light. For a fuller

explanation and a graphic of how these gizmos work, surf to this link:



http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/detection.htm



Doug

Votre policier local.



-----Original Message-----

From: Vicki Schroeder [mailto:vicki_sc-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 9:40 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] registering bicycles and traffic violations







I have a question about bikes and dealing with traffic lights that

can't be triggered by bicycles - particularly at left turn light

signals. What are we supposed to do? Sit there through x?? light cycles

till a car shows up to trigger it or make the turn safely when no

traffic is coming from the front, even though that requires "running"

the light?



Always wondered about this one ........ thoughts? Official policies??



Thanks

Vicki

Vicki Schroeder

I have a question about bikes and dealing with traffic lights that

can't be triggered by bicycles - particularly at left turn light

signals. What are we supposed to do? Sit there through x?? light cycles

till a car shows up to trigger it or make the turn safely when no

traffic is coming from the front, even though that requires "running"

the light?



Always wondered about this one ........ thoughts? Official policies??



Thanks

Vicki

JasonAS-@yahoo.com

Based on anecdotal evidence, cyclists can get fined.

For instance, the fine for riding on the sidewalk

downtown is $200 or so.



jason



--- "T. Kenji Sugahara" <suga-@mac.com> wrote:



 Every cyclist has the rights and duties as any other

vehicle on the

road. As far as the vehicle code is concerned,

whenever you see the

term vehicle is used, stick in bicycle unless it

logically doesn't

apply or when other statutes apply a la 814.400

through 814.489.   

(Source ORS 814.400). So... check out the vehicle

code do the

substitutions and you get the idea.



Cyclists can get fined. Cyclists can get their

bikes impounded.



k-



(the above is not legal advice)







On Oct 8, 2005, at 2:51 PM, Michael O'Hair wrote:



 It looks like it's come around again. Phil

Stanford's column in

 the Oct 7

Portland Tribune has a paragraph on registering

bicycles and

 requiring "bike

riders over a certain age to get licenses." What

caught my eye was

 his

assertion that bicyclists are not punished for

infractions the same as

 motorists. He writes: "If the cops pull over a

bicyclist for

 running a red

light, what are they going to do, take away his

license?"

 

It is my understanding that if the police pull

over a bicyclist for a

 traffic violation and the bicyclist has no ID, the

police can

 arrest the

bicyclist and impound their bike.



So the question for the lawyers and police

officers on this list is

 twofold:

What can the police do in case of a "serious"

traffic violation

 such as

running a stop light and what are they likely to

do?

 

Thanks.



To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

 To respond to the list manager send to

cmur-@obra.org

 To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

T. Kenji Sugahara

Every cyclist has the rights and duties as any other vehicle on the

road. As far as the vehicle code is concerned, whenever you see the

term vehicle is used, stick in bicycle unless it logically doesn't

apply or when other statutes apply a la 814.400 through 814.489.   

(Source ORS 814.400). So... check out the vehicle code do the

substitutions and you get the idea.



Cyclists can get fined. Cyclists can get their bikes impounded.



k-



(the above is not legal advice)







On Oct 8, 2005, at 2:51 PM, Michael O'Hair wrote:



 It looks like it's come around again. Phil Stanford's column in

the Oct 7

Portland Tribune has a paragraph on registering bicycles and

requiring "bike

riders over a certain age to get licenses." What caught my eye was

his

assertion that bicyclists are not punished for infractions the same as

motorists. He writes: "If the cops pull over a bicyclist for

running a red

light, what are they going to do, take away his license?"



It is my understanding that if the police pull over a bicyclist for a

traffic violation and the bicyclist has no ID, the police can

arrest the

bicyclist and impound their bike.



So the question for the lawyers and police officers on this list is

twofold:

What can the police do in case of a "serious" traffic violation

such as

running a stop light and what are they likely to do?



Thanks.



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Michael O'Hair

It looks like it's come around again. Phil Stanford's column in the Oct 7

Portland Tribune has a paragraph on registering bicycles and requiring "bike

riders over a certain age to get licenses." What caught my eye was his

assertion that bicyclists are not punished for infractions the same as

motorists. He writes: "If the cops pull over a bicyclist for running a red

light, what are they going to do, take away his license?"



It is my understanding that if the police pull over a bicyclist for a

traffic violation and the bicyclist has no ID, the police can arrest the

bicyclist and impound their bike.



So the question for the lawyers and police officers on this list is twofold:

What can the police do in case of a "serious" traffic violation such as

running a stop light and what are they likely to do?



Thanks.