Schreck, George

I was informed by the city that the blue meant yield for the

automobiles. Unfortunately, the drivers may not be aware of that so it

may be pointless.



________________________________



From: Jerald Powell [mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 5:01 PM

To: Schreck, George

Cc: ob-@topica.com; tct-@yahoo.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way





George... Emily Thurston was whacked by a truck in that location a few

years ago. As I recall, there was no "blue lane" then and it was found

that the bikeway ended before the intersection. The truck had the right

of way.



I don't know if the "blue lane" is tantamount to "Bikeway" or is simply

a visual on the street.



Jerry





On Oct 11, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Schreck, George wrote:





The question is who has the right of way if a bicycle is going

straight

in a marked bike lane. I am sure Mark Ginsburg has the answer. I

have

nearly been hit a numbers of time going down Broadway where cars

turn to

I-5 North. I believe I have the right of way because of the blue



marking in the pavement, but it does not seem to stop some

drivers from

accelerating by me in an attempt to turn right ahead of me. I

can see

why they do so, as it allows them to increase the time they sit

on the

entrance ramp at rush hour. Waiting for me would delay their

getting in

line a the ramp. Due to this behavior, I have had a few close

calls.



In the absence if the blue marking, I have no idea who has the

right of

way. What I can say is that having the right of way does me

little good

if I am lying under the bumper of a car, so I try to determine

if a

driver is turning right. When I am unsure of the driver's

intentions

(which is most times) I slow down at that point so I can stop if

the

driver does decide to turn in front of me. In some situations,

the cars

are not expecting you to come from behind them on the right and

cannot

see you coming, so often it is sensible to assume all cars are

going to

turn without noticing you and ride accordingly.



We need to ride defensively and not assume everyone sees us or

cares.

Also, people make mistakes even if they do care, so why take the

chance.



-----Original Message-----

From: Tom [mailto:tct-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I

have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding

in a bike



lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the

intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning

right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out

(I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they

are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there

will be a



lot of opinions.





Tom



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received

this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and

destroy all copies.





========================================================================

======



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Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205



503 222 7173

503 799 7823



jpow-@spiritone.com



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==============================================================================

cp53-@aol.com

Why wouldn't the person making an a turn without signalling be at fault? And also, everywhere else on the road, the vehicle going straight always has the right of way over a vehicle that is making a turn

We can assume all we want, but cars and bikes (and every other vehicle out there) still have the responsibility to signal before a lane change or turn. That's why cars have turn signals.

Until it becomes a perfect world and everybody uses their signals and looks over their shoulder before turning-I'm going to stay out of the way and assume nobody sees me.

It seems like the real problem is that we have to do what is safe alot of the time and not necessarily what the law says we should do (like riding on the right side of the fog line to avoid being hit by yahoos who are crowding the road as one example). And sometimes that will mean that we will get hit by a car and then being found at fault.

It's frustrating if I think about it too much. I'm just going to keep riding and doing what I'm doing, cuz I haven't had incident in a long time.



-----Original Message-----

From: david baker <dirt-@oregontrail.net>

To: tct-@yahoo.com; ob-@topica.com

Sent: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:26:32 -0700

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way





I think the bike rider is at fault unless the car just went past the cyclist. Imagine trying to estimate the speed of some cyclsit coming up in your rear view. We all could probably do a good, job but your average person? Overestimate and you have a car parked in the road waiting for the bike to come by with traffic behind impatiently waiting. Underestimate and you have an accident. It is a lot easier for all bikes to assume all cars a turning right.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom" <tct-@yahoo.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



 Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike

lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a

lot of opinions.





Tom



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

Just an addition of info from personal experience (in Arizona) with being

run over while in described lane (not even at intersection, but vehicle

turning right into driveway)....BUT on native american reservation. It is

best to not expect the person (auto driver) to be cited for anything at all

be he/she intoxicated and or whatever. Just be more careful than even all

the advice you have received if on a reservation. I have no hard feelings

except toward the individual that caused our accident. Luckily my buddy who

was almost pinned under the pickup wheel was not seriously injured. I

managed to push myself (sorry to say I couldn't do the same for my bike)

away from the vehicle with my left hand. And all this was in a pretty rural

area.... much more chance of accidents here in metro area where most folks

in cars seem to be either running late or their attention is filled with

other interests besides "driving". Nice to read lots of good advice (and

reminders/affirmation) for all of us to do what it takes to be safe... and

be around to see each others smilin' faces!

ron

----- Original Message -----

From: "Tom" <tct-@yahoo.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way





 Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike

lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a

lot of opinions.





Tom



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Jerald Powell

--Apple-Mail-7-444229242

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset=US-ASCII;

delsp=yes;

format=flowed



George... Emily Thurston was whacked by a truck in that location a few

years ago. As I recall, there was no "blue lane" then and it was found

that the bikeway ended before the intersection. The truck had the

right of way.



I don't know if the "blue lane" is tantamount to "Bikeway" or is simply

a visual on the street.



Jerry





On Oct 11, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Schreck, George wrote:



 The question is who has the right of way if a bicycle is going straight

in a marked bike lane. I am sure Mark Ginsburg has the answer.   I

have

nearly been hit a numbers of time going down Broadway where cars turn

to

I-5 North. I believe I have the right of way because of the blue

marking in the pavement, but it does not seem to stop some drivers from

accelerating by me in an attempt to turn right ahead of me. I can see

why they do so, as it allows them to increase the time they sit on the

entrance ramp at rush hour. Waiting for me would delay their getting

in

line a the ramp. Due to this behavior, I have had a few close calls.



In the absence if the blue marking, I have no idea who has the right of

way. What I can say is that having the right of way does me little

good

if I am lying under the bumper of a car, so I try to determine if a

driver is turning right. When I am unsure of the driver's intentions

(which is most times) I slow down at that point so I can stop if the

driver does decide to turn in front of me. In some situations, the

cars

are not expecting you to come from behind them on the right and cannot

see you coming, so often it is sensible to assume all cars are going to

turn without noticing you and ride accordingly.



We need to ride defensively and not assume everyone sees us or cares.

Also, people make mistakes even if they do care, so why take the

chance.



-----Original Message-----

From: Tom [mailto:tct-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a

bike



lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be

a



lot of opinions.





Tom



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com







-----------------------------------------------------------------------

-------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by

anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,

distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received

this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and

destroy all copies.



=======================================================================

=======



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205



503 222 7173

503 799 7823



jpow-@spiritone.com



--Apple-Mail-7-444229242

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

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George... Emily Thurston was whacked by a truck in that location a few

years ago. As I recall, there was no "blue lane" then and it was

found that the bikeway ended before the intersection. The truck had

the right of way.





I don't know if the "blue lane" is tantamount to "Bikeway" or is

simply a visual on the street.





Jerry







On Oct 11, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Schreck, George wrote:





<excerpt>The question is who has the right of way if a bicycle is

going straight



in a marked bike lane. I am sure Mark Ginsburg has the answer.   I

have



nearly been hit a numbers of time going down Broadway where cars turn

to



I-5 North. I believe I have the right of way because of the blue



marking in the pavement, but it does not seem to stop some drivers from



accelerating by me in an attempt to turn right ahead of me. I can see



why they do so, as it allows them to increase the time they sit on the



entrance ramp at rush hour. Waiting for me would delay their getting

in



line a the ramp. Due to this behavior, I have had a few close calls.





In the absence if the blue marking, I have no idea who has the right of



way. What I can say is that having the right of way does me little

good



if I am lying under the bumper of a car, so I try to determine if a



driver is turning right. When I am unsure of the driver's intentions



(which is most times) I slow down at that point so I can stop if the



driver does decide to turn in front of me. In some situations, the

cars



are not expecting you to come from behind them on the right and cannot



see you coming, so often it is sensible to assume all cars are going to



turn without noticing you and ride accordingly.





We need to ride defensively and not assume everyone sees us or cares.



Also, people make mistakes even if they do care, so why take the

chance.





-----Original Message-----



From: Tom [mailto:tct-@yahoo.com]



Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM



To: ob-@topica.com



Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way





Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have

a



scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.





You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a

bike





lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.



There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.



Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I

don't



know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are



turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?





We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a





lot of opinions.







Tom





To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com









------------------------------------------------------------------------------





This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.





It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by

anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

addressee, is unauthorized.





If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,

distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received

this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and

destroy all copies.





==============================================================================





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</excerpt><fontfamily><param>Helvetica</param>Jerald M Powell, AICP



<italic><x-tad-smaller>Community Planning</x-tad-smaller></italic>



1926 SW Madison Street



Portland, OR 97205





503 222 7173



503 799 7823





jpow-@spiritone.com</fontfamily>





--Apple-Mail-7-444229242--

david baker

I think the bike rider is at fault unless the car just went past the

cyclist. Imagine trying to estimate the speed of some cyclsit coming up in

your rear view. We all could probably do a good, job but your average

person? Overestimate and you have a car parked in the road waiting for the

bike to come by with traffic behind impatiently waiting. Underestimate and

you have an accident. It is a lot easier for all bikes to assume all cars a

turning right.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Tom" <tct-@yahoo.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way





 Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike

lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a

lot of opinions.





Tom



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

markjgi-@yahoo.com

yes, it has been fixed, starting in January 2006,

under some circumstances you will be allowed to pass

on the right.



Mark Ginsberg



--- "T. Kenji Sugahara" <suga-@mac.com> wrote:



 Also remember if there is no bike lane, to stay to

the left of the

fog line. It is an unusual quirk of the law where

if you're riding

to the right of it and get hit, you are likely at

fault as you were

engaging in an "unsafe" pass.    Mark- do you know

if this weird

result was ever rectified? (I figure you'd probably

know it off the

top of your head. I'd rather not have to go

research.)



k-









On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Evan MacKenzie wrote:



 My experience is this:







I expect every car to turn right, whether they are

signaling or

 not. When approaching an intersection, a make sure

I am either

 fully in front of a car that might turn, so they

see me, or fully

 behind it so I can slow down behind it or pass it

on the left as it

 is turning.







When I lived on the eastside and came into

downtown every day over

 the Broadway bridge, I would often leave the bike

lane as I

 approached the entrance to I-5N, and merge not

with the right-hand

 turn-only lane but go all the way over to the lane

that could turn

 or go straight (assuming I was able to keep up

with the traffic).

 This may sound crazy, but it pretty much

guaranteed that I would

 not end up plastered on someone?s door. That

didn?t prevent me from

 landing on some lady?s hood one morning a couple

blocks before

 that, however. Nor did it prevent me from getting

hit not once, but

 twice where the I-5 N exit merges onto Weidler.







A friend of mine once said giving a person a car

is like giving

 them alcohol.



Law don?t mean sh^*(&! when you?re dead.











-Evan







Evan MacKenzie



Urban Planner I



City of Hillsboro



150 E. Main Street, 4th floor



Hillsboro, OR 97123



503-681-6154



eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us



http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/











------------- __o

---------- _ '\<,_

----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and

ride!

 





From: Cp53-@aol.com [mailto:Cp53-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 11:59 AM

To: RCJoh-@attglobal.net; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way







I agree that the best defense is assuming that

nobody in a car is

 looking out for me or knows or cares what the

rules are. And I

 haven't had an accident in many years for that

reason, I believe.

 

But, just because somebody signals doesn't

automatically mean they

 get to turn right away. When it's between two

cars, you put your

 turn signal on (that's to let everybody else know

what your

 intention is) then you look over your shoulder (to

make sure all is

 clear and nothing is in your blind spot-which you

almost never see)

 and THEN you make the turn. If you change lanes

and a car is there

 and you hit it, aren't you at fault?



Does the same rules not apply to the situation

we're talking about

 here?



Again, I agree that staying out of the way is

best-everybody is in

 a hurry to get in line at the red light or the on

ramp. It's

 better to be happy than to be right sometimes.





-----Original Message-----

From: RCJoh-@attglobal.net

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:29:22 +0000

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



I have actually collided with a minivan in exactly

that scenario. The

 

collision was the resut of one other factor, sun

shining directly into

 

the minivan's taillight obscuring any indication

or braking or

 turning.



One minute I'm pacing traffic about to enter an

intersection the next

 

thing I know everybody's slowing down and there's

a minivan directly

 

across my path. I wasn't able to stop quickly

enough and a collision

 

resulted.



During my subsequent review of the situation I

could find no

 indication



where either party violated a right of way. Bike

lanes don't exist in

 

intersections (my understanding), I was riding

with traffic in a

 normal



manner and the van was making a legal turn. The

Oregon DMV advises

 

cyclists to be exceptionally cautious when passing

othere vehicles on

 

the right, though it is not prohibited.

Regardless, I was not

 intending



to pass anyway, just to establish my position in

the flow of

 traffic in



order to get safely through the intersection.



So, we both lost. I had to rebuild a front wheel

and was off my bike

 

for three months with a torn shoulder ACL. The

minivan needed about

 

$750 worth of bodywork repair.



The bottom line is that it was truly an accident.

I

=== message truncated ===





Mark J. Ginsberg

Attorney At Law

621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900

Portland, OR 97204

(503) 542-3000

Fax (503) 227-2530

markjgi-@yahoo.com

www.bikesafetylaw.com







__________________________________

Yahoo! Music Unlimited

Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/

T. Kenji Sugahara

Also remember if there is no bike lane, to stay to the left of the

fog line. It is an unusual quirk of the law where if you're riding

to the right of it and get hit, you are likely at fault as you were

engaging in an "unsafe" pass.    Mark- do you know if this weird

result was ever rectified? (I figure you'd probably know it off the

top of your head. I'd rather not have to go research.)



k-









On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Evan MacKenzie wrote:



 My experience is this:







I expect every car to turn right, whether they are signaling or

not. When approaching an intersection, a make sure I am either

fully in front of a car that might turn, so they see me, or fully

behind it so I can slow down behind it or pass it on the left as it

is turning.







When I lived on the eastside and came into downtown every day over

the Broadway bridge, I would often leave the bike lane as I

approached the entrance to I-5N, and merge not with the right-hand

turn-only lane but go all the way over to the lane that could turn

or go straight (assuming I was able to keep up with the traffic).

This may sound crazy, but it pretty much guaranteed that I would

not end up plastered on someone?s door. That didn?t prevent me from

landing on some lady?s hood one morning a couple blocks before

that, however. Nor did it prevent me from getting hit not once, but

twice where the I-5 N exit merges onto Weidler.







A friend of mine once said giving a person a car is like giving

them alcohol.



Law don?t mean sh^*(&! when you?re dead.











-Evan







Evan MacKenzie



Urban Planner I



City of Hillsboro



150 E. Main Street, 4th floor



Hillsboro, OR 97123



503-681-6154



eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us



http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/











------------- __o

---------- _ '\<,_

----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!







From: Cp53-@aol.com [mailto:Cp53-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 11:59 AM

To: RCJoh-@attglobal.net; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way







I agree that the best defense is assuming that nobody in a car is

looking out for me or knows or cares what the rules are. And I

haven't had an accident in many years for that reason, I believe.



But, just because somebody signals doesn't automatically mean they

get to turn right away. When it's between two cars, you put your

turn signal on (that's to let everybody else know what your

intention is) then you look over your shoulder (to make sure all is

clear and nothing is in your blind spot-which you almost never see)

and THEN you make the turn. If you change lanes and a car is there

and you hit it, aren't you at fault?



Does the same rules not apply to the situation we're talking about

here?



Again, I agree that staying out of the way is best-everybody is in

a hurry to get in line at the red light or the on ramp. It's

better to be happy than to be right sometimes.





-----Original Message-----

From: RCJoh-@attglobal.net

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:29:22 +0000

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



I have actually collided with a minivan in exactly that scenario. The



collision was the resut of one other factor, sun shining directly into



the minivan's taillight obscuring any indication or braking or

turning.



One minute I'm pacing traffic about to enter an intersection the next



thing I know everybody's slowing down and there's a minivan directly



across my path. I wasn't able to stop quickly enough and a collision



resulted.



During my subsequent review of the situation I could find no

indication



where either party violated a right of way. Bike lanes don't exist in



intersections (my understanding), I was riding with traffic in a

normal



manner and the van was making a legal turn. The Oregon DMV advises



cyclists to be exceptionally cautious when passing othere vehicles on



the right, though it is not prohibited. Regardless, I was not

intending



to pass anyway, just to establish my position in the flow of

traffic in



order to get safely through the intersection.



So, we both lost. I had to rebuild a front wheel and was off my bike



for three months with a torn shoulder ACL. The minivan needed about



$750 worth of bodywork repair.



The bottom line is that it was truly an accident. I try to be even

more



cautious now and avoid those types of intersection whenever possible.







Rick











Tom wrote:



 


 Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I

have a



 scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.

 


 You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in

a bike



 


 lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the

intersection.



 There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning

right.



 Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I

don't



 know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

 turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?

 


 We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there

will be a



 


 lot of opinions.

 


 


 Tom

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Hormann, Douglas J

It's like I tell my son, don't be DEAD right! The car always wins!







Dep. Doug Hormann, WCSO

Office of Consolidated Emergency Management

20665 SW Blanton Street, Aloha, OR 97007

503.642.0374 - Work

503.807.7485 - Mobile/Pager

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do-@ocem.org

http://www.ocem.org



________________________________



From: Evan MacKenzie [mailto:eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 12:40 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way







My experience is this:







I expect every car to turn right, whether they are signaling or not.

When approaching an intersection, a make sure I am either fully in front

of a car that might turn, so they see me, or fully behind it so I can

slow down behind it or pass it on the left as it is turning.







When I lived on the eastside and came into downtown every day over the

Broadway bridge, I would often leave the bike lane as I approached the

entrance to I-5N, and merge not with the right-hand turn-only lane but

go all the way over to the lane that could turn or go straight (assuming

I was able to keep up with the traffic). This may sound crazy, but it

pretty much guaranteed that I would not end up plastered on someone's

door. That didn't prevent me from landing on some lady's hood one

morning a couple blocks before that, however. Nor did it prevent me from

getting hit not once, but twice where the I-5 N exit merges onto

Weidler.







A friend of mine once said giving a person a car is like giving them

alcohol.



Law don't mean sh^*(&! when you're dead.











-Evan







Evan MacKenzie



Urban Planner I



City of Hillsboro



150 E. Main Street, 4th floor



Hillsboro, OR 97123



503-681-6154



eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us <mailto:eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us>



http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/

<http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/>











------------- __o

---------- _ '\<,_

----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!







________________________________



From: Cp53-@aol.com [mailto:Cp53-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 11:59 AM

To: RCJoh-@attglobal.net; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way







I agree that the best defense is assuming that nobody in a car is

looking out for me or knows or cares what the rules are. And I haven't

had an accident in many years for that reason, I believe.



But, just because somebody signals doesn't automatically mean they get

to turn right away. When it's between two cars, you put your turn

signal on (that's to let everybody else know what your intention is)

then you look over your shoulder (to make sure all is clear and nothing

is in your blind spot-which you almost never see) and THEN you make the

turn. If you change lanes and a car is there and you hit it, aren't you

at fault?



Does the same rules not apply to the situation we're talking about here?



Again, I agree that staying out of the way is best-everybody is in a

hurry to get in line at the red light or the on ramp. It's better to be

happy than to be right sometimes.





-----Original Message-----

From: RCJoh-@attglobal.net

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:29:22 +0000

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



I have actually collided with a minivan in exactly that scenario. The



collision was the resut of one other factor, sun shining directly into



the minivan's taillight obscuring any indication or braking or turning.





One minute I'm pacing traffic about to enter an intersection the next



thing I know everybody's slowing down and there's a minivan directly



across my path. I wasn't able to stop quickly enough and a collision



resulted.



During my subsequent review of the situation I could find no indication



where either party violated a right of way. Bike lanes don't exist in



intersections (my understanding), I was riding with traffic in a normal



manner and the van was making a legal turn. The Oregon DMV advises



cyclists to be exceptionally cautious when passing othere vehicles on



the right, though it is not prohibited. Regardless, I was not intending





to pass anyway, just to establish my position in the flow of traffic in



order to get safely through the intersection.



So, we both lost. I had to rebuild a front wheel and was off my bike



for three months with a torn shoulder ACL. The minivan needed about



$750 worth of bodywork repair.



The bottom line is that it was truly an accident. I try to be even more





cautious now and avoid those types of intersection whenever possible.







Rick











Tom wrote:



 


 Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have

a



 scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.

 


 You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a

bike



 


 lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

 There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

 Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I

don't



 know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

 turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?

 


 We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be

a



 


 lot of opinions.

 


 


 Tom

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cp53-@aol.com

I agree that the best defense is assuming that nobody in a car is looking out for me or knows or cares what the rules are. And I haven't had an accident in many years for that reason, I believe.

But, just because somebody signals doesn't automatically mean they get to turn right away. When it's between two cars, you put your turn signal on (that's to let everybody else know what your intention is) then you look over your shoulder (to make sure all is clear and nothing is in your blind spot-which you almost never see) and THEN you make the turn. If you change lanes and a car is there and you hit it, aren't you at fault?

Does the same rules not apply to the situation we're talking about here?

Again, I agree that staying out of the way is best-everybody is in a hurry to get in line at the red light or the on ramp. It's better to be happy than to be right sometimes.



-----Original Message-----

From: RCJoh-@attglobal.net

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:29:22 +0000

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way





I have actually collided with a minivan in exactly that scenario. The

collision was the resut of one other factor, sun shining directly into

the minivan's taillight obscuring any indication or braking or turning.

One minute I'm pacing traffic about to enter an intersection the next

thing I know everybody's slowing down and there's a minivan directly

across my path. I wasn't able to stop quickly enough and a collision

resulted.

During my subsequent review of the situation I could find no indication

where either party violated a right of way. Bike lanes don't exist in

intersections (my understanding), I was riding with traffic in a normal

manner and the van was making a legal turn. The Oregon DMV advises

cyclists to be exceptionally cautious when passing othere vehicles on

the right, though it is not prohibited. Regardless, I was not intending

to pass anyway, just to establish my position in the flow of traffic in

order to get safely through the intersection.

So, we both lost. I had to rebuild a front wheel and was off my bike

for three months with a torn shoulder ACL. The minivan needed about

$750 worth of bodywork repair.

The bottom line is that it was truly an accident. I try to be even more

cautious now and avoid those types of intersection whenever possible.



Rick





Tom wrote:

 

Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike



lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a



lot of opinions.





Tom

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

RCJoh-@attglobal.net

I have actually collided with a minivan in exactly that scenario. The

collision was the resut of one other factor, sun shining directly into

the minivan's taillight obscuring any indication or braking or turning.

One minute I'm pacing traffic about to enter an intersection the next

thing I know everybody's slowing down and there's a minivan directly

across my path. I wasn't able to stop quickly enough and a collision

resulted.

During my subsequent review of the situation I could find no indication

where either party violated a right of way. Bike lanes don't exist in

intersections (my understanding), I was riding with traffic in a normal

manner and the van was making a legal turn. The Oregon DMV advises

cyclists to be exceptionally cautious when passing othere vehicles on

the right, though it is not prohibited. Regardless, I was not intending

to pass anyway, just to establish my position in the flow of traffic in

order to get safely through the intersection.

So, we both lost. I had to rebuild a front wheel and was off my bike

for three months with a torn shoulder ACL. The minivan needed about

$750 worth of bodywork repair.

The bottom line is that it was truly an accident. I try to be even more

cautious now and avoid those types of intersection whenever possible.



Rick





Tom wrote:

 

Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike



lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a



lot of opinions.





Tom

Eric Kytola

I agree with Mark.



Leif just got a road bike and we are gently venturing out into the

streets for rides. I don't teach him that he has the right of way, I

teach him to stay out of the way.





-----Original Message-----

From: Mark.Me-@ch2m.com [mailto:Mark.Me-@ch2m.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 11:06 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



From my own experience I can say that the driver will be cited for

failing to yield to a cyclist in the bike lane. In my case the driver

went to court, as instructed by the insurance company, and the decision

to cite the driver was upheld.



If the driver had signaled his intent and been ahead of me when

initiating the turn I would have definitely yielded my right to the bike

lane but in this case the vehicle never fully passed me before

initiating the turn.



From this day I continue to yield my rights to the bike lane rather than

put myself in a more dangerous situation asserting my rights. The law

only helps after you've been hit and you or your survivors are in the

settlement phase.



Mark



-----Original Message-----

From: Keith A. Prior [mailto:toka-@ix.netcom.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:45 AM

To: tct-@yahoo.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



Well lets not discuss fault because that might imply that someone else

is responsible for your safety. No thanks! But if I am not mistaken the

law requires that motorists be aware of and yield to cyclists operating

in the bike lane to their right.





I make a serious habit of never being right next to a car as we pass

through an intersection.

I will always be just in front of it or a safe distance behind if they

turn right without signaling.



If you treat every car as if it is suddenly going to turn right then you

wont be surprised when it (and it will) happen. The thing that burns me

the most are people that use the bike lane as their right hand turn

lane!!!



-K





-----Original Message-----

From: Tom [mailto:tct-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way





Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike

lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a

lot of opinions.





Tom



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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send to obra-uns-@topica.com



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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Mark.Me-@CH2M.com

From my own experience I can say that the driver will be cited for

failing to yield to a cyclist in the bike lane. In my case the driver

went to court, as instructed by the insurance company, and the decision

to cite the driver was upheld.



If the driver had signaled his intent and been ahead of me when

initiating the turn I would have definitely yielded my right to the bike

lane but in this case the vehicle never fully passed me before

initiating the turn.



From this day I continue to yield my rights to the bike lane rather than

put myself in a more dangerous situation asserting my rights. The law

only helps after you've been hit and you or your survivors are in the

settlement phase.



Mark



-----Original Message-----

From: Keith A. Prior [mailto:toka-@ix.netcom.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:45 AM

To: tct-@yahoo.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



Well lets not discuss fault because that might imply that someone else

is responsible for your safety. No thanks! But if I am not mistaken the

law requires that motorists be aware of and yield to cyclists operating

in the bike lane to their right.





I make a serious habit of never being right next to a car as we pass

through an intersection.

I will always be just in front of it or a safe distance behind if they

turn right without signaling.



If you treat every car as if it is suddenly going to turn right then you

wont be surprised when it (and it will) happen. The thing that burns me

the most are people that use the bike lane as their right hand turn

lane!!!



-K





-----Original Message-----

From: Tom [mailto:tct-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way





Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike

lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a

lot of opinions.





Tom



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org To unsubscribe

send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Schreck, George

Thanks. That is helpful.



Still, it pays to ride defensively and not blow through the

intersection. Most drivers will not see you in time if you do, and

telling the driver you had the right of way from a hospital bed is

little comfort.



   



-----Original Message-----

From: Chris Rycewicz [mailto:chr-@northwestlaw.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 11:01 AM

To: Schreck, George; tct-@yahoo.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



George, you have the right of way. Cars are supposed to yield to you.

Cyclists are vehicles and a car turning right across a bikepath must

yield to a cyclist heading straight in the path.



Christopher A. Rycewicz

Rycewicz & Chenoweth LLP

601 SW Second Ave., Suite 1940

Portland, OR 97204

phone (503) 221-7958

fax (503) 221-2182

email: chr-@northwestlaw.com







INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION IS PRIVILEGED AND/OR

CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE RECIPIENT. IF READER OF THIS

NOTICE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY

DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS INFORMATION IS STRICTLY

PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS EMAIL IN ERROR, PLEASE

IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY THE SENDER BY PHONE, DELETE THE MESSAGE, AND DESTROY

ALL COPIES





-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:46 AM

To: tct-@yahoo.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



The question is who has the right of way if a bicycle is going straight

in a marked bike lane. I am sure Mark Ginsburg has the answer.   I have

nearly been hit a numbers of time going down Broadway where cars turn to

I-5 North. I believe I have the right of way because of the blue

marking in the pavement, but it does not seem to stop some drivers from

accelerating by me in an attempt to turn right ahead of me. I can see

why they do so, as it allows them to increase the time they sit on the

entrance ramp at rush hour. Waiting for me would delay their getting in

line a the ramp. Due to this behavior, I have had a few close calls.



In the absence if the blue marking, I have no idea who has the right of

way. What I can say is that having the right of way does me little good

if I am lying under the bumper of a car, so I try to determine if a

driver is turning right. When I am unsure of the driver's intentions

(which is most times) I slow down at that point so I can stop if the

driver does decide to turn in front of me. In some situations, the cars

are not expecting you to come from behind them on the right and cannot

see you coming, so often it is sensible to assume all cars are going to

turn without noticing you and ride accordingly.



We need to ride defensively and not assume everyone sees us or cares.

Also, people make mistakes even if they do care, so why take the chance.



-----Original Message-----

From: Tom [mailto:tct-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike



lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a



lot of opinions.





Tom



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone

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this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and

destroy all copies.



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This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



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==============================================================================

markjgi-@yahoo.com

Tom,



As an attorney representing cyclists, this is my most

commonly litigated fact pattern.



The short answer is that a car driver must yield right

of way to a cyclist in a bike lane. ORS 811.050.



But if a car driver is signally to turn right and you

are coming up from behind, you might have the right of

way, but the car is still hard, made of big metal

parts, and can hurt you.



So, sometimes there is a difference between having the

right of way and riding smart. Discretion is the

better part of valor. Basically, you do have the right

of way. But so did Matt Scheckle. He is the rider who

was killed on SE 37th and Taylor. He had the right of

way and a truck had a stop sign. I ride past his

memorial everyday. We were the same age when he was

killed. I sort of say to myself every day, "don't be

Matt Scheckle"



I am happy to answer longer if people want it.



And at the risk of sending business to someone else,

you and other OBRA members might consider attending

Ray Thomas's excellent bicycle law workshops. They are

once a month, 2 hours. His lawfirm can get you on the

attendee list., their # is (503) 228-5222.



Mark Ginsberg



--- Tom <tct-@yahoo.com> wrote:



 Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to

death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders

opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection

while riding in a bike

lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of

the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that

is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave

those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the

car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am

sure there will be a

lot of opinions.





Tom

Mark J. Ginsberg

Attorney At Law

621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900

Portland, OR 97204

(503) 542-3000

Fax (503) 227-2530

markjgi-@yahoo.com

www.bikesafetylaw.com







__________________________________

Yahoo! Music Unlimited

Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/

Chris Rycewicz

George, you have the right of way. Cars are supposed to yield to you.

Cyclists are vehicles and a car turning right across a bikepath must

yield to a cyclist heading straight in the path.



Christopher A. Rycewicz

Rycewicz & Chenoweth LLP

601 SW Second Ave., Suite 1940

Portland, OR 97204

phone (503) 221-7958

fax (503) 221-2182

email: chr-@northwestlaw.com







INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION IS PRIVILEGED AND/OR

CONFIDENTIAL AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE RECIPIENT. IF READER OF THIS

NOTICE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY

DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS INFORMATION IS STRICTLY

PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS EMAIL IN ERROR, PLEASE

IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY THE SENDER BY PHONE, DELETE THE MESSAGE, AND DESTROY

ALL COPIES





-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:46 AM

To: tct-@yahoo.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



The question is who has the right of way if a bicycle is going straight

in a marked bike lane. I am sure Mark Ginsburg has the answer.   I have

nearly been hit a numbers of time going down Broadway where cars turn to

I-5 North. I believe I have the right of way because of the blue

marking in the pavement, but it does not seem to stop some drivers from

accelerating by me in an attempt to turn right ahead of me. I can see

why they do so, as it allows them to increase the time they sit on the

entrance ramp at rush hour. Waiting for me would delay their getting in

line a the ramp. Due to this behavior, I have had a few close calls.



In the absence if the blue marking, I have no idea who has the right of

way. What I can say is that having the right of way does me little good

if I am lying under the bumper of a car, so I try to determine if a

driver is turning right. When I am unsure of the driver's intentions

(which is most times) I slow down at that point so I can stop if the

driver does decide to turn in front of me. In some situations, the cars

are not expecting you to come from behind them on the right and cannot

see you coming, so often it is sensible to assume all cars are going to

turn without noticing you and ride accordingly.



We need to ride defensively and not assume everyone sees us or cares.

Also, people make mistakes even if they do care, so why take the chance.



-----Original Message-----

From: Tom [mailto:tct-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike



lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a



lot of opinions.





Tom



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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Rand Milam

My understanding is that the car must yield to the bike using a bike lane

that has the right of way. As we know many drivers are oblivious to all but

their own needs,   staying behind a car that may not see the bike and

allowing it to turn right while in your full view can yield a safer ride.



rand





----- Original Message -----

From: "Tom" <tct-@yahoo.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way





 Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike

lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a

lot of opinions.





Tom



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Schreck, George

The question is who has the right of way if a bicycle is going straight

in a marked bike lane. I am sure Mark Ginsburg has the answer.   I have

nearly been hit a numbers of time going down Broadway where cars turn to

I-5 North. I believe I have the right of way because of the blue

marking in the pavement, but it does not seem to stop some drivers from

accelerating by me in an attempt to turn right ahead of me. I can see

why they do so, as it allows them to increase the time they sit on the

entrance ramp at rush hour. Waiting for me would delay their getting in

line a the ramp. Due to this behavior, I have had a few close calls.



In the absence if the blue marking, I have no idea who has the right of

way. What I can say is that having the right of way does me little good

if I am lying under the bumper of a car, so I try to determine if a

driver is turning right. When I am unsure of the driver's intentions

(which is most times) I slow down at that point so I can stop if the

driver does decide to turn in front of me. In some situations, the cars

are not expecting you to come from behind them on the right and cannot

see you coming, so often it is sensible to assume all cars are going to

turn without noticing you and ride accordingly.



We need to ride defensively and not assume everyone sees us or cares.

Also, people make mistakes even if they do care, so why take the chance.



-----Original Message-----

From: Tom [mailto:tct-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way



Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike



lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a



lot of opinions.





Tom



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com







------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



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Keith A. Prior

Well lets not discuss fault because that might imply that someone else

is responsible for your safety. No thanks! But if I am not mistaken the law

requires

that motorists be aware of and yield to cyclists operating in the bike lane

to their right.





I make a serious habit of never being right next to a car as we pass through

an intersection.

I will always be just in front of it or a safe distance behind if they turn

right without signaling.



If you treat every car as if it is suddenly going to turn right then you

wont be surprised when it (and it will)

happen. The thing that burns me the most are people that use the bike lane

as their right hand turn lane!!!



-K





-----Original Message-----

From: Tom [mailto:tct-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:22 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bike lanes & right of way





Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike

lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a

lot of opinions.





Tom



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Tom

Well here is a topic that will probably get beat to death, but I have a

scenario to throw out and get the educated riders opinion.



You, as a cyclist are approaching an intersection while riding in a bike

lane. The bike lane continues on the other side of the intersection.

There is a car in the traffic lane next to you that is turning right.

Here is where some variables kick in, but lets leave those out (I don't

know them). If the bike rider hits the side of the car as they are

turning right (in front of you), who is at fault?



We have all had similar situations to this, so I am sure there will be a

lot of opinions.





Tom