age categories

Jerald Powell

2005-10-17





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Realizing that I'm sticking my nose in on this... as Candi says I'm

older than dirt anyway and maybe should know better... I like the age

graded system they've been using in Washington for a number of years.

If I recall correctly... they encourage race organizers to have two

masters divisions in which the "younger" lower category masters riders

(35+) can ride with the "older" masters (45+... maybe should be 50+).



I found it interesting that a few years ago, when the organizer (I

think it was wheelsport) first added the second masters race at

Volunteer Park... the number of masters competitors doubled

immediately.



Jerry





On Oct 17, 2005, at 9:03 AM, Luciano bailey wrote:



 I think I only have one cent on this one I really enjoyed the races

that offered masters 30 + 40 + 50+ these were the most competetive

even if combined and scored seperate.





 From: mike.m-@obra.org

Reply-To: mike.m-@obra.org

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] age categories

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:35:25 -0700



There has been some discussion about Master age divisions and it has

contained some misinformation. Some have suggested that OBRA and/or

USCF

recognize Masters as 35+. This is not the case. USCF defines

masters as

30+ although race organizers may define other age divisions.



Similarly the OBRA rule with regard to age grading is:



"8.5 - AGE GRADED CATEGORIES

Racing age is defined as the age the rider will be on December 31 of

the

current year. Age graded races are defined at the discretion of the

race

organizer subject to the following:

MASTERS may be any age range 30 or older. If no age range is stated

on the

Entry Form/Race Announcement the default age will be 40 and older.

JUNIORS may be any age range 18 or younger. If no age range is

stated on

the Entry Form/Race Announcement the default age will be 18 and

younger."



In other words, each race organizer gets to define the age divisions

for

Masters as long as the age range is 30 or above.



Here in Oregon, as well as other locations, most race organizers have

used

35+ although this is far from universal. Monday PIR and the various

State

Championships use 30+. The Alpenrose Challenge was and will continue

to be

40+. In some locations the local associations have been more formal

about

establishing specific race category and age divisions. I think this

would

be a mistake since individual races may have specific reasons why

different

ability and/or age divisions work better for them. To force those

races to

use another specific division would be a bad thing.



The difficulty comes when calculating the results for the BAR since

there

are several different age and ability schemes that are used by

different

races. Trying to combine them all to make the BAR fair is difficult.

My

suggestion would be that for BAR purposes we only include races that

have

specific age and ability divisions. Race organizers could feel free

to use

other criteria to divide fields but the results of those races would

not be

included in the BAR.



Now for my $0.02 on Master divisions; 30+ is clearly stupid since this

includes most of the membership. I think 35+ is also too low since

about

half the membership is older than 35 (mean age of 2005 annual members

is

34.7). We have a large number of members that we are not really

offering a

good product to; older lower category riders. 40+ makes the most

sense to

me looking at the demographics of our identified market. Of course

none of

this has anything to do with me being 50+. YMMV



Mike Murray



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Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205



503 222 7173

503 799 7823



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Realizing that I'm sticking my nose in on this... as Candi says I'm

older than dirt anyway and maybe should know better... I like the age

graded system they've been using in Washington for a number of years.=20

If I recall correctly... they encourage race organizers to have two

masters divisions in which the "younger" lower category masters riders

(35+) can ride with the "older" masters (45+... maybe should be 50+).





I found it interesting that a few years ago, when the organizer (I

think it was wheelsport) first added the second masters race at

Volunteer Park... the number of masters competitors doubled

immediately.





Jerry







On Oct 17, 2005, at 9:03 AM, Luciano bailey wrote:





<excerpt>I think I only have one cent on this one I really enjoyed the

races that offered masters 30 + 40 + 50+ these were the most

competetive even if combined and scored seperate.







<excerpt>From: mike.m-@obra.org



Reply-To: mike.m-@obra.org



To: ob-@topica.com



Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] age categories



Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:35:25 -0700





There has been some discussion about Master age divisions and it has



contained some misinformation. Some have suggested that OBRA and/or

USCF



recognize Masters as 35+. This is not the case. USCF defines masters

as



30+ although race organizers may define other age divisions.





Similarly the OBRA rule with regard to age grading is:





"8.5 - AGE GRADED CATEGORIES



Racing age is defined as the age the rider will be on December 31 of

the



current year. Age graded races are defined at the discretion of the

race



organizer subject to the following:



MASTERS may be any age range 30 or older. If no age range is stated on

the



Entry Form/Race Announcement the default age will be 40 and older.



JUNIORS may be any age range 18 or younger. If no age range is stated

on



the Entry Form/Race Announcement the default age will be 18 and

younger."





In other words, each race organizer gets to define the age divisions

for



Masters as long as the age range is 30 or above.





Here in Oregon, as well as other locations, most race organizers have

used



35+ although this is far from universal. Monday PIR and the various

State



Championships use 30+. The Alpenrose Challenge was and will continue

to be



40+. In some locations the local associations have been more formal

about



establishing specific race category and age divisions. I think this

would



be a mistake since individual races may have specific reasons why

different



ability and/or age divisions work better for them. To force those

races to



use another specific division would be a bad thing.





The difficulty comes when calculating the results for the BAR since

there



are several different age and ability schemes that are used by

different



races. Trying to combine them all to make the BAR fair is difficult.=20

My



suggestion would be that for BAR purposes we only include races that

have



specific age and ability divisions. Race organizers could feel free to

use



other criteria to divide fields but the results of those races would

not be



included in the BAR.





Now for my $0.02 on Master divisions; 30+ is clearly stupid since this



includes most of the membership. I think 35+ is also too low since

about



half the membership is older than 35 (mean age of 2005 annual members

is



34.7). We have a large number of members that we are not really

offering a



good product to; older lower category riders. 40+ makes the most

sense to



me looking at the demographics of our identified market. Of course

none of



this has anything to do with me being 50+. YMMV





Mike Murray





To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



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</excerpt>



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</excerpt><fontfamily><param>Helvetica</param>Jerald M Powell, AICP



<italic><x-tad-smaller>Community Planning</x-tad-smaller></italic>



1926 SW Madison Street



Portland, OR 97205





503 222 7173



503 799 7823





jpow-@spiritone.com</fontfamily>





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Luciano bailey

2005-10-17



I think I only have one cent on this one I really enjoyed the races that

offered masters 30 + 40 + 50+ these were the most competetive even if

combined and scored seperate.





 From: mike.m-@obra.org

Reply-To: mike.m-@obra.org

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] age categories

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:35:25 -0700



There has been some discussion about Master age divisions and it has

contained some misinformation. Some have suggested that OBRA and/or USCF

recognize Masters as 35+. This is not the case. USCF defines masters as

30+ although race organizers may define other age divisions.



Similarly the OBRA rule with regard to age grading is:



"8.5 - AGE GRADED CATEGORIES

Racing age is defined as the age the rider will be on December 31 of the

current year. Age graded races are defined at the discretion of the race

organizer subject to the following:

MASTERS may be any age range 30 or older. If no age range is stated on the

Entry Form/Race Announcement the default age will be 40 and older.

JUNIORS may be any age range 18 or younger. If no age range is stated on

the Entry Form/Race Announcement the default age will be 18 and younger."



In other words, each race organizer gets to define the age divisions for

Masters as long as the age range is 30 or above.



Here in Oregon, as well as other locations, most race organizers have used

35+ although this is far from universal. Monday PIR and the various State

Championships use 30+. The Alpenrose Challenge was and will continue to be

40+. In some locations the local associations have been more formal about

establishing specific race category and age divisions. I think this would

be a mistake since individual races may have specific reasons why different

ability and/or age divisions work better for them. To force those races to

use another specific division would be a bad thing.



The difficulty comes when calculating the results for the BAR since there

are several different age and ability schemes that are used by different

races. Trying to combine them all to make the BAR fair is difficult. My

suggestion would be that for BAR purposes we only include races that have

specific age and ability divisions. Race organizers could feel free to use

other criteria to divide fields but the results of those races would not be

included in the BAR.



Now for my $0.02 on Master divisions; 30+ is clearly stupid since this

includes most of the membership. I think 35+ is also too low since about

half the membership is older than 35 (mean age of 2005 annual members is

34.7). We have a large number of members that we are not really offering a

good product to; older lower category riders. 40+ makes the most sense to

me looking at the demographics of our identified market. Of course none of

this has anything to do with me being 50+. YMMV



Mike Murray



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Peter Murphy

2005-10-16





I concur. At 36, I don't feel old enough to race in a "masters" division,

especially when I am (I didn't race this year) still competitive with the

categorized field. I may not be the "star" of the team, but I can still

work hard enough in the field to get our "star" to the front.



Doesn't the typical male cyclist reach their peak in their late 20's? a 30+

masters field then doesn't make any sense. I am all for the 40+ masters

designation.



In the USCF races that I experienced in the SE US, the 1/2s would use the

30+ masters category races to warm-up for their Cat races and saw it as

easier money for the day.



Pete Murphy







 From: mike.m-@obra.org

Reply-To: mike.m-@obra.org

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] age categories

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:35:25 -0700



There has been some discussion about Master age divisions and it has

contained some misinformation. Some have suggested that OBRA and/or USCF

recognize Masters as 35+. This is not the case. USCF defines masters as

30+ although race organizers may define other age divisions.



Similarly the OBRA rule with regard to age grading is:



"8.5 - AGE GRADED CATEGORIES

Racing age is defined as the age the rider will be on December 31 of the

current year. Age graded races are defined at the discretion of the race

organizer subject to the following:

MASTERS may be any age range 30 or older. If no age range is stated on the

Entry Form/Race Announcement the default age will be 40 and older.

JUNIORS may be any age range 18 or younger. If no age range is stated on

the Entry Form/Race Announcement the default age will be 18 and younger."



In other words, each race organizer gets to define the age divisions for

Masters as long as the age range is 30 or above.



Here in Oregon, as well as other locations, most race organizers have used

35+ although this is far from universal. Monday PIR and the various State

Championships use 30+. The Alpenrose Challenge was and will continue to be

40+. In some locations the local associations have been more formal about

establishing specific race category and age divisions. I think this would

be a mistake since individual races may have specific reasons why different

ability and/or age divisions work better for them. To force those races to

use another specific division would be a bad thing.



The difficulty comes when calculating the results for the BAR since there

are several different age and ability schemes that are used by different

races. Trying to combine them all to make the BAR fair is difficult. My

suggestion would be that for BAR purposes we only include races that have

specific age and ability divisions. Race organizers could feel free to use

other criteria to divide fields but the results of those races would not be

included in the BAR.



Now for my $0.02 on Master divisions; 30+ is clearly stupid since this

includes most of the membership. I think 35+ is also too low since about

half the membership is older than 35 (mean age of 2005 annual members is

34.7). We have a large number of members that we are not really offering a

good product to; older lower category riders. 40+ makes the most sense to

me looking at the demographics of our identified market. Of course none of

this has anything to do with me being 50+. YMMV



Mike Murray



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mike.m-@obra.org

2005-10-14



There has been some discussion about Master age divisions and it has

contained some misinformation. Some have suggested that OBRA and/or USCF

recognize Masters as 35+. This is not the case. USCF defines masters as

30+ although race organizers may define other age divisions.



Similarly the OBRA rule with regard to age grading is:



"8.5 - AGE GRADED CATEGORIES

Racing age is defined as the age the rider will be on December 31 of the

current year. Age graded races are defined at the discretion of the race

organizer subject to the following:

MASTERS may be any age range 30 or older. If no age range is stated on the

Entry Form/Race Announcement the default age will be 40 and older.

JUNIORS may be any age range 18 or younger. If no age range is stated on

the Entry Form/Race Announcement the default age will be 18 and younger."



In other words, each race organizer gets to define the age divisions for

Masters as long as the age range is 30 or above.



Here in Oregon, as well as other locations, most race organizers have used

35+ although this is far from universal. Monday PIR and the various State

Championships use 30+. The Alpenrose Challenge was and will continue to be

40+. In some locations the local associations have been more formal about

establishing specific race category and age divisions. I think this would

be a mistake since individual races may have specific reasons why different

ability and/or age divisions work better for them. To force those races to

use another specific division would be a bad thing.



The difficulty comes when calculating the results for the BAR since there

are several different age and ability schemes that are used by different

races. Trying to combine them all to make the BAR fair is difficult. My

suggestion would be that for BAR purposes we only include races that have

specific age and ability divisions. Race organizers could feel free to use

other criteria to divide fields but the results of those races would not be

included in the BAR.



Now for my $0.02 on Master divisions; 30+ is clearly stupid since this

includes most of the membership. I think 35+ is also too low since about

half the membership is older than 35 (mean age of 2005 annual members is

34.7). We have a large number of members that we are not really offering a

good product to; older lower category riders. 40+ makes the most sense to

me looking at the demographics of our identified market. Of course none of

this has anything to do with me being 50+. YMMV



Mike Murray



Gary Medley

2005-10-14

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All 40+ and 45+ age categories are rendered moot by two words: David

Zimbleman. :)



Gary







At 09:53 AM 10/14/2005, you wrote:



 No matter where we break the masters age, someone will complain.

(Haven't we had this discussion before?)



I was bummed when the Crusade series changed the Masters from 35+ to 30+,

because that meant I had been old for five years instead of one. So I

raced C. Now it's back at 35+, and I am racing as a Master. But I think

I'll race B at PIR this weekend because I get out of there earlier.



But really, no matter where the line is, there will be fast guys and there

will be slow guys. In the end, it is up to the individual rider to

register for his or her most appropriate class. If you're old and you know

it, raise your hand. Then go register for the Masters class. If you're old

and you don't feel it, race with the regular "Cat" on the road or cross,

or race sport off road.



I don't know about the rest of you, but it's not like I'm going to win or

lose a bunch of races because the promoter changed the masters cutoff to

30, 35, 40 or 80 years. I'll finish about mid-pack either way, and I'll go

back to work Monday knowing I tested my personal limits while most people

sat in front of the tv or went shopping.



Thanks to OBRA and all the individual promoters for giving us a chance to

race at all. Oh, and can you keep the Masters cutoff at least below 36 please?



-Evan



Evan MacKenzie

Urban Planner I

City of Hillsboro

150 E. Main Street, 4th floor

Hillsboro, OR 97123

503-681-6154

<mailto:eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us>eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us

http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/





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Medley Communications

704 NE 43rd

Portland, Oregon 97213 USA

503/239-3948 tel & fax

503/516-1468 mobile

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<html>

<body>

All 40+ and 45+ age categories are rendered moot by two words: 

David Zimbleman.  :)<br><br>

Gary<br><br>

<br><br>

At 09:53 AM 10/14/2005, you wrote:<br><br>

<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">

<font face="Times New Roman, Times" size=2>No matter where we break the

masters age, someone will complain.<br>

(Haven?t we had this discussion before?)<br>

 <br>

I was bummed when the Crusade series changed the Masters from 35+ to 30+,

because that meant I had been old for five years instead of one. So I

raced C. Now it?s back at 35+, and I am racing as a Master. But I think

I?ll race B at PIR this weekend because I get out of there earlier.<br>

 <br>

But really, no matter where the line is, there will be fast guys and

there will be slow guys. In the end, it is up to the individual rider to

register for his or her most appropriate class. If you?re old and you

know it, raise your hand. Then go register for the Masters class. If

you?re old and you don?t feel it, race with the regular ?Cat? on the road

or cross, or race sport off road.<br>

 <br>

I don?t know about the rest of you, but it?s not like I?m going to win or

lose a bunch of races because the promoter changed the masters cutoff to

30, 35, 40 or 80 years. I?ll finish about mid-pack either way, and I?ll

go back to work Monday knowing I tested my personal limits while most

people sat in front of the tv or went shopping.<br>

 <br>

Thanks to OBRA and all the individual promoters for giving us a chance to

race at all. Oh, and can you keep the Masters cutoff at least below 36

please?<br>

 <br>

-Evan<br>

 <br>

Evan MacKenzie<br>

Urban Planner I<br>

City of Hillsboro<br>

150 E. Main Street</font>, 4<sup>th</sup> floor<br>

<font face="Times New Roman, Times" size=2>Hillsboro</font>, OR

97123<br>

<font face="Times New Roman, Times" size=2>503-681-6154<br>

</font><font face="Times New Roman, Times" size=1>

<a href="mailto:eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us">eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us</a><br>

</font><font face="Times New Roman, Times" size=1 color="#0000FF">

<a href="http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/" eudora="autourl">

http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/</a><br>

</font><font face="Times New Roman, Times"> <br>

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Gary Medley<br>

Medley Communications<br>

704 NE 43rd<br>

Portland, Oregon 97213 USA<br>

503/239-3948 tel & fax<br>

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Evan MacKenzie

2005-10-14

No matter where we break the masters age, someone will complain.



(Haven't we had this discussion before?)







I was bummed when the Crusade series changed the Masters from 35+ to

30+, because that meant I had been old for five years instead of one. So

I raced C. Now it's back at 35+, and I am racing as a Master. But I

think I'll race B at PIR this weekend because I get out of there

earlier.







But really, no matter where the line is, there will be fast guys and

there will be slow guys. In the end, it is up to the individual rider to

register for his or her most appropriate class. If you're old and you

know it, raise your hand. Then go register for the Masters class. If

you're old and you don't feel it, race with the regular "Cat" on the

road or cross, or race sport off road.







I don't know about the rest of you, but it's not like I'm going to win

or lose a bunch of races because the promoter changed the masters cutoff

to 30, 35, 40 or 80 years. I'll finish about mid-pack either way, and

I'll go back to work Monday knowing I tested my personal limits while

most people sat in front of the tv or went shopping.







Thanks to OBRA and all the individual promoters for giving us a chance

to race at all. Oh, and can you keep the Masters cutoff at least below

36 please?







-Evan







Evan MacKenzie



Urban Planner I



City of Hillsboro



150 E. Main Street, 4th floor



Hillsboro, OR 97123



503-681-6154



eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us <mailto:eva-@ci.hillsboro.or.us>



http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/

<http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planning_Department/>











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