adcamp-@earthlink.net

On this note, FOR YRS I had an enormous in with the Technical Editor at VN (sorry, Mike he left last wk after 13 yrs!) being a long time (20+ yr) close personal friend of mine who would beg on our behalf and I would write for them (GULP, I wanted to get us the coverage) for FREE! Still it was a fight every yr. They gave web but only because my buddy pulled himself out of regular duties as a personal favor, for track he claimed it was a "tour thing" preventing the coverage, July and all. Only once did they give print coverage, which was a rip...they summarized my web updates, stuck someone from the Colo offices name on it. That yr we did get some letters to the editor in as they did a "Track is dead" thing which Splinter and I played off a bit (2001?) to the STANDING ROOM only crowds. Not here, it ain't!!!



To be fair, some there (my buddy Charles) recognized as recently as 97 or so what was happening with "the split" and he did some stories on all that, noting the positive OBRA #'s, movement, etc we had here. Interestingly enough, he was the one who ran all the "What's wrong with USAC" stories. They would never deal with him directly because of the context..."There is NOTHING wrong and why should we respond to negative press". Well...as time moved on and riders fled to "Rebel Alliances" by the thousands, USAC came begging and promising...apparently something WAS WRONG.   Charles was an anomaly to the VN norm and when he was swamped, O'Grady (who does those GREAT RANTS) was there for us as well. I agree with Murray...it is a Colo thing and a USAC thing.





----- Original Message -----

From:

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: 11/22/2005 7:58:42 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy





This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose Challenge in print either. This past year they also did not print schedule information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800 phone number for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite us telling them that several times. It goes on and on. I have always thought that there was some collusion with USAC that caused this but feared that I was being a bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see that others have been thinking the same thing.



In general it is somewhat amazing to me that Oregon racing does not get more attention on a national level. Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike racers in the country while having only 1% of the population. The number of events is far greater than anywhere else in the US. We must be doing something right and you would think that people would be interested in finding out what that is.



Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 18:08 PM

To: da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy





Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing! I'm glad I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the deep south where maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the best cross series in the world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes down to a national series, Oregon riders are consistently at the top of the results. You would think there would be more of a focus on cross racing in Oregon instead of North Carolina or Michigan.



I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad Prix races. I would be curious to find out which event had the most participants of the six and which race had the most spectators. I don't see the crowds at the some of the other races like there was in Portland. I'm starting to realize that cross isn't exploding everywhere like it is in Portland. Why can't Velo News, Cycling News.com and Cyclocross World come to this same conclusion and give P town and Oregon the respect it deserves (even if Barry moved to California).



Rich

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Luciano bailey

Long story short if we continue to produce the quality of talent and do our

best with RSS feeds and other local web presence Oregon will not remain the

step child of velonews. I would also add that letters and e-mails to such a

publication especially through the available blog options is the best form

of self promotion. I was amazed that people on the east coast were able to

keep up with events through these style info options. Now this may not suit

those who feel Oregon racing should be front page news, but that is on the

way, so e-mail, snail mail, PR Oregon racing, and our talented racers will

let the world know HAPPY TURKEY DAY OBRA





 From: "Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com>

Reply-To: george.-@pacificorp.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy

Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:59:36 -0800



Forget Oregon cycling. I think there is a conspiracy in that Velo New

does not devote any coverage to my specific exploits. What could be

more interesting that a mediocre 50+ bike racer. After all, the world

does revolve around me, doesn't it?.



________________________________



From: cmur-@obra.org [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:26 AM

To: david.l.w-@intel.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







Dave







We had a meeting in LA with all of the tracks in the US. Girard

Biscelgia, the CEO of USAC was there. He stated that they had just over

30,000 riders. Our membership is 2800+.



Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Whitlinger [mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com]

Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:10 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







Mike,







You wrote: "Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike racers in the country

while having only 1% of the population."







I'm curious if you have this data somewhere...I'm not disputing it, but

I would like to use it. Can you supply a source of some sort?







Dave







________________________________



From: mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:17 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose

Challenge in print either. This past year they also did not print

schedule information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800

phone number for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite

us telling them that several times. It goes on and on. I have always

thought that there was some collusion with USAC that caused this but

feared that I was being a bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see

that others have been thinking the same thing.







In general it is somewhat amazing to me that Oregon racing does not get

more attention on a national level. Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike

racers in the country while having only 1% of the population. The

number of events is far greater than anywhere else in the US. We must

be doing something right and you would think that people would be

interested in finding out what that is.







Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 18:08 PM

To: da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing!

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the

deep south where maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the

best cross series in the world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes

down to a national series, Oregon riders are consistently at the top of

the results. You would think there would be more of a focus on cross

racing in Oregon instead of North Carolina or Michigan.







I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad

Prix races. I would be curious to find out which event had the most

participants of the six and which race had the most spectators. I don't

see the crowds at the some of the other races like there was in

Portland. I'm starting to realize that cross isn't exploding everywhere

like it is in Portland. Why can't Velo News, Cycling News.com and

Cyclocross World come to this same conclusion and give P town and Oregon

the respect it deserves (even if Barry moved to California).







Rich



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



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------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone

else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee,

is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,

distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this

email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy

all copies.



==============================================================================



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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to

get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

cdbr-@gmail.com

Wow, those writeups seemed so timely and professional, I was sure that

it was a paid position. Good work! That's a lot of work to do as a

volunteer. I felt it really added to the excitement of the Crusade, not

only are the events outstanding, but the national/international press

and photos that went along with it to cyclocrossworld.com,

cyclingnews.com, and the euro sites cyclocrossonline.be and

cyclocross.info had to have increased potential sponsor interest.



I'm sure Kevin Hulick would like to see his "big winner" picture on the

top step of the podium out there on the web, being state champion and

all! Congrats.



Chris Brandt





Chris Bright wrote:

 

From 2001-2003, I volunteered to write race reports for the Cross

Crusade. Those reports were published in their entirety at

Cyclingnews.com, Velonews.com, Cyclocrossworld.com, and even some

obscure Euro 'cross sites. The reason I mention this is that with some

effort and a (very) modest amount of writing skill, our 'cross scene

would be getting the spotlight it deserves. These sites are hungry for

content.



Also, I don't think it is fair to say that Velonews is not covering

Oregon's cyclocross scene. In its 'Cross Season Preview, the Cross

Crusade has earned a lot of ink, mainly because Brad Ross and Brian

Witty worked to build a relationship with the writers there.



Instead of complaining that the global cycling media is conspiring

against Oregon, my reply is that a little effort and organization will

change that perception rapidly. This is not rocket science.



Chris



P.S. If anyone is seriously interested in writing Cross Crusade race

reports next season, I'll happily share my experiences. It was a blast!

Schreck, George

Forget Oregon cycling. I think there is a conspiracy in that Velo New

does not devote any coverage to my specific exploits. What could be

more interesting that a mediocre 50+ bike racer. After all, the world

does revolve around me, doesn't it?.



________________________________



From: cmur-@obra.org [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:26 AM

To: david.l.w-@intel.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







Dave







We had a meeting in LA with all of the tracks in the US. Girard

Biscelgia, the CEO of USAC was there. He stated that they had just over

30,000 riders. Our membership is 2800+.



Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Whitlinger [mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com]

Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:10 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







Mike,







You wrote: "Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike racers in the country

while having only 1% of the population."







I'm curious if you have this data somewhere...I'm not disputing it, but

I would like to use it. Can you supply a source of some sort?







Dave







________________________________



From: mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:17 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose

Challenge in print either. This past year they also did not print

schedule information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800

phone number for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite

us telling them that several times. It goes on and on. I have always

thought that there was some collusion with USAC that caused this but

feared that I was being a bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see

that others have been thinking the same thing.







In general it is somewhat amazing to me that Oregon racing does not get

more attention on a national level. Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike

racers in the country while having only 1% of the population. The

number of events is far greater than anywhere else in the US. We must

be doing something right and you would think that people would be

interested in finding out what that is.







Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 18:08 PM

To: da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing!

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the

deep south where maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the

best cross series in the world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes

down to a national series, Oregon riders are consistently at the top of

the results. You would think there would be more of a focus on cross

racing in Oregon instead of North Carolina or Michigan.







I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad

Prix races. I would be curious to find out which event had the most

participants of the six and which race had the most spectators. I don't

see the crowds at the some of the other races like there was in

Portland. I'm starting to realize that cross isn't exploding everywhere

like it is in Portland. Why can't Velo News, Cycling News.com and

Cyclocross World come to this same conclusion and give P town and Oregon

the respect it deserves (even if Barry moved to California).







Rich



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



==============================================================================

cmur-@obra.org

Dave







We had a meeting in LA with all of the tracks in the US. Girard Biscelgia,

the CEO of USAC was there. He stated that they had just over 30,000 riders.

Our membership is 2800+.



Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Whitlinger [mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com]

Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:10 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







Mike,







You wrote: "Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike racers in the country while

having only 1% of the population."







I'm curious if you have this data somewhere.I'm not disputing it, but I

would like to use it. Can you supply a source of some sort?







Dave







_____



From: mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:17 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose Challenge

in print either. This past year they also did not print schedule

information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800 phone number

for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite us telling them

that several times. It goes on and on. I have always thought that there

was some collusion with USAC that caused this but feared that I was being a

bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see that others have been thinking

the same thing.







In general it is somewhat amazing to me that Oregon racing does not get more

attention on a national level. Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike racers in

the country while having only 1% of the population. The number of events is

far greater than anywhere else in the US. We must be doing something right

and you would think that people would be interested in finding out what that

is.







Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 18:08 PM

To: da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing! I'm glad

I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the deep south where

maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the best cross series in

the world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes down to a national series,

Oregon riders are consistently at the top of the results. You would think

there would be more of a focus on cross racing in Oregon instead of North

Carolina or Michigan.







I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad Prix races.

I would be curious to find out which event had the most participants of the

six and which race had the most spectators. I don't see the crowds at the

some of the other races like there was in Portland. I'm starting to realize

that cross isn't exploding everywhere like it is in Portland. Why can't

Velo News, Cycling News.com and Cyclocross World come to this same

conclusion and give P town and Oregon the respect it deserves (even if Barry

moved to California).







Rich



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Chris Bright

From 2001-2003, I volunteered to write race reports for the Cross

Crusade. Those reports were published in their entirety at

Cyclingnews.com, Velonews.com, Cyclocrossworld.com, and even some

obscure Euro 'cross sites. The reason I mention this is that with some

effort and a (very) modest amount of writing skill, our 'cross scene

would be getting the spotlight it deserves. These sites are hungry for

content.



Also, I don't think it is fair to say that Velonews is not covering

Oregon's cyclocross scene. In its 'Cross Season Preview, the Cross

Crusade has earned a lot of ink, mainly because Brad Ross and Brian

Witty worked to build a relationship with the writers there.



Instead of complaining that the global cycling media is conspiring

against Oregon, my reply is that a little effort and organization will

change that perception rapidly. This is not rocket science.



Chris



P.S. If anyone is seriously interested in writing Cross Crusade race

reports next season, I'll happily share my experiences. It was a blast!

Schreck, George

True, but it does not matter how big cycling is here. What matters is

where the readers of the magazine who would read the advertisements are

located. A relatively small number are located on the West Coast

compared to the East Coast (9 percent versus 43 percent) according to

the survey.



-----Original Message-----

From: RCJoh-@attglobal.net [mailto:RCJoh-@attglobal.net]

Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:09 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



Hmm. My perception was that all (for profit) magazines cater to their

advertisers. The cover price of about any rag pays for the delivery

costs and maybe some of the printing. The paychecks for the writers,

photographers, editors and all the other overhead expenses are paid for

by the advertising.

So, if we want coverage the advertisers need to know how big cycling is

here. They in turn will make sure that our significant market segment

is served by the publication. That is what they are paying for, to

reach potential customers. It also wouldn't hurt is Oregon companies

were among those buying advertising...



Rick





Schreck, George wrote:



 I think you answered your question. We have only one percent of the

population. Mass market publications are going to focus on where

their reader are located.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 *From:* mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

*Sent:* Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:17 PM

*To:* ob-@topica.com

*Subject:* RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose

Challenge in print either. This past year they also did not print

schedule information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800

phone number for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite

 us telling them that several times. It goes on and on. I have always

 thought that there was some collusion with USAC that caused this but

feared that I was being a bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see

that others have been thinking the same thing.



In general it is somewhat amazing to me that Oregon racing does not

get more attention on a national level. Oregon has roughly 10% of the

 bike racers in the country while having only 1% of the population.

The number of events is far greater than anywhere else in the US. We

must be doing something right and you would think that people would be

 interested in finding out what that is.





Mike Murray



     -----Original Message-----

     *From:* Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

     *Sent:* Tuesday, November 22, 2005 18:08 PM

     *To:* da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

     *Subject:* [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



     Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing!

     I'm glad I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in

     the deep south where maybe there are 100 riders, before even

     mentioning the best cross series in the world, the Cross Crucade.

     And when it comes down to a national series, Oregon riders are

     consistently at the top of the results. You would think there

     would be more of a focus on cross racing in Oregon instead of

     North Carolina or Michigan.

      

     I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad

     Prix races. I would be curious to find out which event had the

     most participants of the six and which race had the most

     spectators. I don't see the crowds at the some of the other races

     like there was in Portland. I'm starting to realize that cross

     isn't exploding everywhere like it is in Portland. Why can't Velo

     News, Cycling News.com and Cyclocross World come to this same

     conclusion and give P town and Oregon the respect it deserves

     (even if Barry moved to California).

      

     Rich



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------

------

 

This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by

anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,

distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received

this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and

 destroy all copies.

========================================================================

======

 

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com







------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



==============================================================================

RCJoh-@attglobal.net

Hmm. My perception was that all (for profit) magazines cater to their

advertisers. The cover price of about any rag pays for the delivery

costs and maybe some of the printing. The paychecks for the writers,

photographers, editors and all the other overhead expenses are paid for

by the advertising.

So, if we want coverage the advertisers need to know how big cycling is

here. They in turn will make sure that our significant market segment

is served by the publication. That is what they are paying for, to

reach potential customers. It also wouldn't hurt is Oregon companies

were among those buying advertising...



Rick





Schreck, George wrote:



 I think you answered your question. We have only one percent of the

population. Mass market publications are going to focus on where

their reader are located.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

*Sent:* Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:17 PM

*To:* ob-@topica.com

*Subject:* RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose

Challenge in print either. This past year they also did not print

schedule information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800

phone number for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite

us telling them that several times. It goes on and on. I have always

thought that there was some collusion with USAC that caused this but

feared that I was being a bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see

that others have been thinking the same thing.



In general it is somewhat amazing to me that Oregon racing does not

get more attention on a national level. Oregon has roughly 10% of the

bike racers in the country while having only 1% of the population.

The number of events is far greater than anywhere else in the US. We

must be doing something right and you would think that people would be

interested in finding out what that is.





Mike Murray



     -----Original Message-----

     *From:* Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

     *Sent:* Tuesday, November 22, 2005 18:08 PM

     *To:* da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

     *Subject:* [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



     Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing!

     I'm glad I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in

     the deep south where maybe there are 100 riders, before even

     mentioning the best cross series in the world, the Cross Crucade.

     And when it comes down to a national series, Oregon riders are

     consistently at the top of the results. You would think there

     would be more of a focus on cross racing in Oregon instead of

     North Carolina or Michigan.

      

     I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad

     Prix races. I would be curious to find out which event had the

     most participants of the six and which race had the most

     spectators. I don't see the crowds at the some of the other races

     like there was in Portland. I'm starting to realize that cross

     isn't exploding everywhere like it is in Portland. Why can't Velo

     News, Cycling News.com and Cyclocross World come to this same

     conclusion and give P town and Oregon the respect it deserves

     (even if Barry moved to California).

      

     Rich



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------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by

anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

addressee, is unauthorized.



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prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received

this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and

destroy all copies.



==============================================================================



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Schreck, George

Interesting indeed.



The entire West Coast was 9.6 percent, while the entire East Coast is

43.3 percent (New England 12, Middle Atlantic 12.2, Southern Atlantic

19.1).



I think these numbers indicate why there may be a focus on the East

Coast. That said, they do run articles about Oregon from time to time,

and certainly no less than the attention we get from other media. Lets

face it, most people have no idea where Oregon is. When I lived on the

East Coast, I had no idea what Oregon was other than from reading

Sometimes a Great Notion by Ken Keasy, and I got the impression that the

entire state was trees and loggers. Frankly, I do not care if the rest

of the nation knows we exist, as long as I continue to exist.



________________________________



From: Brian Engelen [mailto:beng-@comcast.net]

Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:53 AM

To: Schreck, George

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







Interesting stuff, 2005 VeloNews reader Survey, population #'s on last

page. Evidentially, nobody from OBRA participated in the survey; see

Part II, #6.







http://www.velonews.com/about/pdf/2005VN_reader.pdf







Brian Engelen







-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:30 AM

To: mike.m-@obra.org; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







I think you answered your question. We have only one percent of the

population. Mass market publications are going to focus on where their

reader are located.







________________________________



From: mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:17 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose

Challenge in print either. This past year they also did not print

schedule information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800

phone number for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite

us telling them that several times. It goes on and on. I have always

thought that there was some collusion with USAC that caused this but

feared that I was being a bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see

that others have been thinking the same thing.







In general it is somewhat amazing to me that Oregon racing does not get

more attention on a national level. Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike

racers in the country while having only 1% of the population. The

number of events is far greater than anywhere else in the US. We must

be doing something right and you would think that people would be

interested in finding out what that is.







Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 18:08 PM

To: da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing!

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the

deep south where maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the

best cross series in the world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes

down to a national series, Oregon riders are consistently at the top of

the results. You would think there would be more of a focus on cross

racing in Oregon instead of North Carolina or Michigan.







I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad

Prix races. I would be curious to find out which event had the most

participants of the six and which race had the most spectators. I don't

see the crowds at the some of the other races like there was in

Portland. I'm starting to realize that cross isn't exploding everywhere

like it is in Portland. Why can't Velo News, Cycling News.com and

Cyclocross World come to this same conclusion and give P town and Oregon

the respect it deserves (even if Barry moved to California).







Rich



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



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------------------------------------------------------------------------

------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone

else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,

distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received

this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and

destroy all copies.



========================================================================

======



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------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



==============================================================================

Brian Engelen

http://www.velonews.com/about/pdf/2005VN_reader.pdf











Brian Engelen







-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Whitlinger [mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com]

Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:10 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







Mike,







You wrote: "Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike racers in the country while

having only 1% of the population."







I'm curious if you have this data somewhere.I'm not disputing it, but I

would like to use it. Can you supply a source of some sort?







Dave







_____



From: mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:17 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose Challenge

in print either. This past year they also did not print schedule

information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800 phone number

for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite us telling them

that several times. It goes on and on. I have always thought that there

was some collusion with USAC that caused this but feared that I was being a

bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see that others have been thinking

the same thing.







In general it is somewhat amazing to me that Oregon racing does not get more

attention on a national level. Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike racers in

the country while having only 1% of the population. The number of events is

far greater than anywhere else in the US. We must be doing something right

and you would think that people would be interested in finding out what that

is.







Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 18:08 PM

To: da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing! I'm glad

I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the deep south where

maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the best cross series in

the world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes down to a national series,

Oregon riders are consistently at the top of the results. You would think

there would be more of a focus on cross racing in Oregon instead of North

Carolina or Michigan.







I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad Prix races.

I would be curious to find out which event had the most participants of the

six and which race had the most spectators. I don't see the crowds at the

some of the other races like there was in Portland. I'm starting to realize

that cross isn't exploding everywhere like it is in Portland. Why can't

Velo News, Cycling News.com and Cyclocross World come to this same

conclusion and give P town and Oregon the respect it deserves (even if Barry

moved to California).







Rich



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



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Whitlinger, David L

Mike,







You wrote: "Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike racers in the country

while having only 1% of the population."







I'm curious if you have this data somewhere...I'm not disputing it, but

I would like to use it. Can you supply a source of some sort?







Dave







________________________________



From: mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:17 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose

Challenge in print either. This past year they also did not print

schedule information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800

phone number for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite

us telling them that several times. It goes on and on. I have always

thought that there was some collusion with USAC that caused this but

feared that I was being a bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see

that others have been thinking the same thing.







In general it is somewhat amazing to me that Oregon racing does not get

more attention on a national level. Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike

racers in the country while having only 1% of the population. The

number of events is far greater than anywhere else in the US. We must

be doing something right and you would think that people would be

interested in finding out what that is.







Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 18:08 PM

To: da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy



Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing!

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the

deep south where maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the

best cross series in the world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes

down to a national series, Oregon riders are consistently at the top of

the results. You would think there would be more of a focus on cross

racing in Oregon instead of North Carolina or Michigan.







I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad

Prix races. I would be curious to find out which event had the most

participants of the six and which race had the most spectators. I don't

see the crowds at the some of the other races like there was in

Portland. I'm starting to realize that cross isn't exploding everywhere

like it is in Portland. Why can't Velo News, Cycling News.com and

Cyclocross World come to this same conclusion and give P town and Oregon

the respect it deserves (even if Barry moved to California).







Rich



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Schreck, George

I think you answered your question. We have only one percent of the

population. Mass market publications are going to focus on where their

reader are located.



________________________________



From: mike.m-@obra.org [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:17 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy





This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose

Challenge in print either. This past year they also did not print

schedule information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800

phone number for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite

us telling them that several times. It goes on and on. I have always

thought that there was some collusion with USAC that caused this but

feared that I was being a bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see

that others have been thinking the same thing.



In general it is somewhat amazing to me that Oregon racing does not get

more attention on a national level. Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike

racers in the country while having only 1% of the population. The

number of events is far greater than anywhere else in the US. We must

be doing something right and you would think that people would be

interested in finding out what that is.





Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 18:08 PM

To: da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy





Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing!

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the

deep south where maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the

best cross series in the world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes

down to a national series, Oregon riders are consistently at the top of

the results. You would think there would be more of a focus on cross

racing in Oregon instead of North Carolina or Michigan.



I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad

Prix races. I would be curious to find out which event had the most

participants of the six and which race had the most spectators. I don't

see the crowds at the some of the other races like there was in

Portland. I'm starting to realize that cross isn't exploding everywhere

like it is in Portland. Why can't Velo News, Cycling News.com and

Cyclocross World come to this same conclusion and give P town and Oregon

the respect it deserves (even if Barry moved to California).



Rich

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



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To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



==============================================================================

cmur-@obra.org

I think that the main reason they did not post them, was they were not sent.



Candi







-----Original Message-----

From: Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:08 PM

To: da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy







Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing! I'm glad

I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the deep south where

maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the best cross series in

the world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes down to a national series,

Oregon riders are consistently at the top of the results. You would think

there would be more of a focus on cross racing in Oregon instead of North

Carolina or Michigan.







I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad Prix races.

I would be curious to find out which event had the most participants of the

six and which race had the most spectators. I don't see the crowds at the

some of the other races like there was in Portland. I'm starting to realize

that cross isn't exploding everywhere like it is in Portland. Why can't

Velo News, Cycling News.com and Cyclocross World come to this same

conclusion and give P town and Oregon the respect it deserves (even if Barry

moved to California).







Rich



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Michael O'Hair

MessageHeinlein's Dictum: "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."



O'Hair's Corollary: "The results are often indistinguishable."



----- Original Message -----

From: mike.m-@obra.org

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:16 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy





This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose Challenge in print either. This past year they also did not print schedule information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800 phone number for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite us telling them that several times. It goes on and on. I have always thought that there was some collusion with USAC that caused this but feared that I was being a bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see that others have been thinking the same thing.

JOHN FORBES

Actually they aren't good at posting results. I've sent them results from different races I've been involved with to no avail.

John Forbes

2126 NE 12th Ave.

Portland, OR 97212

503-331-6658

----- Original Message -----

From: Omer<mailto:omer-@yahoo.com>

To: Cowan-@aol.com<mailto:Cowan-@aol.com> ; da-@preciseflight.com<mailto:da-@preciseflight.com> ; ob-@topica.com<mailto:ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:49 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy





Anyone can submit race results and photos to cyclin-@cyclingnews.com<mailto:cyclin-@cyclingnews.com>. They are really good about posting everything they are sent....



-----Original Message-----

      From: "Cowan-@aol.com"<Cowan-@aol.com<mailto:Cowan-@aol.com"<Cowan-@aol.com>>

      Sent: 11/22/05 6:08:07 PM

      To: "da-@preciseflight.com"<da-@preciseflight.com<mailto:dand@preciseflightcom"<da-@preciseflight.com>>, "ob-@topica.com"<ob-@topica.com<mailto:ob-@topica.com"<ob-@topica.com>>

      Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy

      

      Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing! I'm glad

      I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the deep south where

      maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the best cross series in the

      world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes down to a national series, Oregon

      riders are consistently at the top of the results. You would think there

      would be more of a focus on cross racing in Oregon instead of North Carolina or

      Michigan.

      

      I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad Prix races.

      I would be curious to find out which event had the most participants of the

      six and which race had the most spectators. I don't see the crowds at the some

      of the other races like there was in Portland. I'm starting to realize that

      cross isn't exploding everywhere like it is in Portland. Why can't Velo News,

      Cycling News.com and Cyclocross World come to this same conclusion and give P

      town and Oregon the respect it deserves (even if Barry moved to California).

      

      Rich

      

      To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com<mailto:ob-@topica.com>.

      To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org<mailto:cmur-@obra.org>    



[Message truncated. Tap Edit->Mark for Download to get remaining portion.]

Miranda Duff

Check out the Oregonian on the cover of the current print issue of Velo

News: http://www.velonews.com/toc/

Ryan, Barry and Rhonda were all featured in the Oct. 17 issue top 10 talent

lists and Ryan's bike was the Pro Shop feature as well.





----Original Message Follows----

From: John Forbes <johnf-@msn.com>

Reply-To: johnf-@msn.com

To: obra <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: Fw: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy

Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:07:50 -0800





John Forbes

2126 NE 12th Ave.

Portland, OR 97212

503-331-6658

----- Original Message -----

From: JOHN FORBES<mailto:johnf-@msn.com>

To: Cowan-@aol.com<mailto:Cowan-@aol.com>

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:33 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy





Yeah, at risk of appearing parochial, I've gotten the impression over the

years that we are the poor relations in Velonews eyes. I sent them a letter

after Ryan and Barry dominated back east pointing out that 5 of the top

ranked riders in US cross were from Oregon, 6 if you went 11 deep.

The letter never made it to their "mailbag".

Who knows what the story is, and, more to the point, what can we do about

it?

John Forbes

2126 NE 12th Ave.

Portland, OR 97212

503-331-6658

   ----- Original Message -----

   From: Cowan-@aol.com<mailto:Cowan-@aol.com>

   To: da-@preciseflight.com<mailto:da-@preciseflight.com> ;

ob-@topica.com<mailto:ob-@topica.com>

   Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:08 PM

   Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy





   Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing! I'm

glad I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the deep south

where maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the best cross

series in the world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes down to a

national series, Oregon riders are consistently at the top of the results.

You would think there would be more of a focus on cross racing in Oregon

instead of North Carolina or Michigan.



   I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad Prix

races. I would be curious to find out which event had the most participants

of the six and which race had the most spectators. I don't see the crowds

at the some of the other races like there was in Portland. I'm starting to

realize that cross isn't exploding everywhere like it is in Portland. Why

can't Velo News, Cycling News.com and Cyclocross World come to this same

conclusion and give P town and Oregon the respect it deserves (even if Barry

moved to California).



   Rich

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

mike.m-@obra.org

This is not unique to cross. VeloNews never covers the Alpenrose Challenge

in print either. This past year they also did not print schedule

information that we sent them, they have not removed the 800 phone number

for OBRA which has not been available for 2 years despite us telling them

that several times. It goes on and on. I have always thought that there

was some collusion with USAC that caused this but feared that I was being a

bit too paranoid. It is interesting to see that others have been thinking

the same thing.



In general it is somewhat amazing to me that Oregon racing does not get more

attention on a national level. Oregon has roughly 10% of the bike racers in

the country while having only 1% of the population. The number of events is

far greater than anywhere else in the US. We must be doing something right

and you would think that people would be interested in finding out what that

is.





Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 18:08 PM

To: da-@preciseflight.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy





Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing! I'm glad

I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the deep south where

maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the best cross series in

the world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes down to a national series,

Oregon riders are consistently at the top of the results. You would think

there would be more of a focus on cross racing in Oregon instead of North

Carolina or Michigan.



I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad Prix races.

I would be curious to find out which event had the most participants of the

six and which race had the most spectators. I don't see the crowds at the

some of the other races like there was in Portland. I'm starting to realize

that cross isn't exploding everywhere like it is in Portland. Why can't

Velo News, Cycling News.com and Cyclocross World come to this same

conclusion and give P town and Oregon the respect it deserves (even if Barry

moved to California).



Rich

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

eri-@fusium.com

I suspect they only publish results they're provided with. Send the

results, they will be published (at least online).







-Erik

Omer

Anyone can submit race results and photos to cyclin-@cyclingnews.com. They are really good about posting everything they are sent....



-----Original Message-----

    From: "Cowan-@aol.com"<Cowan-@aol.com>

    Sent: 11/22/05 6:08:07 PM

    To: "da-@preciseflight.com"<da-@preciseflight.com>, "ob-@topica.com"<ob-@topica.com>

    Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross conspiracy

    

    Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing! I'm glad

    I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the deep south where

    maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the best cross series in the

    world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes down to a national series, Oregon

    riders are consistently at the top of the results. You would think there

    would be more of a focus on cross racing in Oregon instead of North Carolina or

    Michigan.

    

    I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad Prix races.

    I would be curious to find out which event had the most participants of the

    six and which race had the most spectators. I don't see the crowds at the some

    of the other races like there was in Portland. I'm starting to realize that

    cross isn't exploding everywhere like it is in Portland. Why can't Velo News,

    Cycling News.com and Cyclocross World come to this same conclusion and give P

    town and Oregon the respect it deserves (even if Barry moved to California).

    

    Rich

    

    To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

    To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org    



[Message truncated. Tap Edit->Mark for Download to get remaining portion.]

Cowan-@aol.com

Dan, I've been biting my tongue but I've noticed the same thing! I'm glad

I'm not the only one. Velo News reports cross races in the deep south where

maybe there are 100 riders, before even mentioning the best cross series in the

world, the Cross Crucade. And when it comes down to a national series, Oregon

riders are consistently at the top of the results. You would think there

would be more of a focus on cross racing in Oregon instead of North Carolina or

Michigan.



I've also been looking at some of the pictures of the other Grad Prix races.

I would be curious to find out which event had the most participants of the

six and which race had the most spectators. I don't see the crowds at the some

of the other races like there was in Portland. I'm starting to realize that

cross isn't exploding everywhere like it is in Portland. Why can't Velo News,

Cycling News.com and Cyclocross World come to this same conclusion and give P

town and Oregon the respect it deserves (even if Barry moved to California).



Rich