St John's

Patrick wilder

2005-12-16

        I've been watching this thread all week so now I've got to jump in with my 2 cents. I frequently commute across the St. John's from NW.

   

Regarding the St. John's Bride:

   

1. There are signs for bikes to yield to peds on the sidewalk.

2. There are yellow and black signs that say: Bicycles on Bridge

3. There are signs suggesting a 35 mph speed limit.

   

Look we're not talking about the Hawthorne bridge here, it's not like there are bikes and peds to navigate and pass. I rarely see another cyclist on the St. John's Bridge.

   

Bridge's are hazards, period. Chose the safest route to get across. Personally, I think the side walk is sufficient as I'm not into dealing with big semi's who are easily exceeding the posted 35 mph speed limit.

   

   

      

    



jo-@aracnet.com wrote:   Mark,



Now you are getting into the realm of "Shcroedinger's Cat"... ;)



Joe 'showing my geekness' Cipale



markjgi-@yahoo.com wrote:

 bicyclist live in a strange legal world, we are both vehilces of the

road and sometimes pedestrians.



Sort of like quantum physics where something can be in 2 places at once.



as for sellwood brigde, yes, you can ride on the roadway and signs say

walk on the "sidewalk".



Marl Ginsberg



Steven Mullen wrote:A couple of years ago, I

witnessed a cyclists who rode too close to the concrete railing on the

Sellwood bridge, trying to avoid a pedestrian (me), hit her bar on the

railing, and went flying out into the road. Luckily, the nearest

vehicle was still 50 meters away (a Ross Island Sand and Gravel cement

truck), and I helped her get herself and her bike back out of the

roadway before being hit.



The only way to properly ride across the Sellwood Bridge is in the

roadway. The sidewalks are just too narrow for passing, and I would

recommend obeying the signs that suggest walking your bike, if you wish

to use the sidewalk. Unfortunately, I believe those same signs confuse

motorists, who think that cyclists are SUPPOSED to use the sidewalk.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe, by law, cyclists

are treated as motor vehicles, and are SUPPOSED to use the roadway.



A sign, to that effect (CYCLISTS IN ROADWAY), would probably help a

great deal.



-Steven Mullen.





-----Original Message-----

From: ".David.Auker."

Sent: Dec 11, 2005 8:18 PM

To: cycl-@yahoo.com

Cc: obra

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St John's



steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser wrote:



 Dave, I meant for this to go to everyone.



When they put those signs up on bridges that have no room like the

Sellwood, they are using us as martyrs. They can just through a few

cyclists out the to get hit so that the public gets in an uproar one

way or the other and the legislature has to come up with the funds so

that "more won't have to die" instead of proactively trying to get the

funds, knowing it will be too hard of a battle and they might loose

some votes for "spending all that tax money on bike riders".

Be a martyr if you want but I would rather live to ride on another

sidewalk and try to get them to do it right the first time.







Life's too short to be always riding on sidewalks (not to mention

annoying the walkers). I'll take my chances on the roadway, when given

the choice. It's not for everyone, though, and I can appreciate that.

However, you've GOT to have some aggressive "in your face" attitude when



riding on any road shared with cars, and looking for too many sidewalks

stiffles efficient journeys across town. It's like living like a

refugee...*



David



*

Somewhere, somehow, somebody must have

Kicked you around some

Who knows, maybe you were kidnapped,

Tied-up, taken away, and held for ransom



Honey, it don?t really matter to me

Baby, everybody?s ha d to fight to be free

You see, you don?t have to live like a refugee

No, you don?t have to live like a refugee

Baby, you don?t have to live like a refugee



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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Mark J. Ginsberg

Attorney At Law

621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900

Portland, OR 97204

(503) 542-3000

Fax (503) 227-2530

markjgi-@yahoo.com

www.bikesafetylaw.com



---------------------------------

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jo-@aracnet.com

2005-12-16



Mark,



Now you are getting into the realm of "Shcroedinger's Cat"... ;)



Joe 'showing my geekness' Cipale



markjgi-@yahoo.com wrote:

 bicyclist live in a strange legal world, we are both vehilces of the

road and sometimes pedestrians.

   

   Sort of like quantum physics where something can be in 2 places at once.

   

   as for sellwood brigde, yes, you can ride on the roadway and signs say

   walk on the "sidewalk".

   

   Marl Ginsberg



Steven Mullen <mull-@earthlink.net> wrote:A couple of years ago, I

witnessed a cyclists who rode too close to the concrete railing on the

Sellwood bridge, trying to avoid a pedestrian (me), hit her bar on the

railing, and went flying out into the road. Luckily, the nearest

vehicle was still 50 meters away (a Ross Island Sand and Gravel cement

truck), and I helped her get herself and her bike back out of the

roadway before being hit.



The only way to properly ride across the Sellwood Bridge is in the

roadway. The sidewalks are just too narrow for passing, and I would

recommend obeying the signs that suggest walking your bike, if you wish

to use the sidewalk. Unfortunately, I believe those same signs confuse

motorists, who think that cyclists are SUPPOSED to use the sidewalk.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe, by law, cyclists

are treated as motor vehicles, and are SUPPOSED to use the roadway.



A sign, to that effect (CYCLISTS IN ROADWAY), would probably help a

great deal.



-Steven Mullen.





-----Original Message-----

From: ".David.Auker."

Sent: Dec 11, 2005 8:18 PM

To: cycl-@yahoo.com

Cc: obra

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St John's



steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser wrote:



 Dave, I meant for this to go to everyone.



When they put those signs up on bridges that have no room like the

Sellwood, they are using us as martyrs. They can just through a few

cyclists out the to get hit so that the public gets in an uproar one

way or the other and the legislature has to come up with the funds so

that "more won't have to die" instead of proactively trying to get the

funds, knowing it will be too hard of a battle and they might loose

some votes for "spending all that tax money on bike riders".

Be a martyr if you want but I would rather live to ride on another

sidewalk and try to get them to do it right the first time.







Life's too short to be always riding on sidewalks (not to mention

annoying the walkers). I'll take my chances on the roadway, when given

the choice. It's not for everyone, though, and I can appreciate that.

However, you've GOT to have some aggressive "in your face" attitude when



riding on any road shared with cars, and looking for too many sidewalks

stiffles efficient journeys across town. It's like living like a

refugee...*



David



*

Somewhere, somehow, somebody must have

Kicked you around some

Who knows, maybe you were kidnapped,

Tied-up, taken away, and held for ransom



Honey, it don?t really matter to me

Baby, everybody?s ha d to fight to be free

You see, you don?t have to live like a refugee

No, you don?t have to live like a refugee

Baby, you don?t have to live like a refugee



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



















Mark J. Ginsberg

Attorney At Law

621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900

Portland, OR 97204

(503) 542-3000

Fax (503) 227-2530

markjgi-@yahoo.com

www.bikesafetylaw.com



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Shopping

Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping



Schreck, George

2005-12-15



All the more reason to ride on the road like any other vehicle.



-----Original Message-----

From: Doug Evans [mailto:Dou-@sprbrk.com]

Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 9:30 AM

To: mull-@earthlink.net; Dav-@Hevanet.com; cycl-@yahoo.com

Cc: obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] St John's



I rode the sidewalk last weekend. I'm pretty sure that I saw signs on

the sidewalk which instruct cyclist to yield to Pedestrians.



-----Original Message-----

From: Steven Mullen [mailto:mull-@earthlink.net]

Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:47 AM

To: Dav-@Hevanet.com; cycl-@yahoo.com

Cc: obra

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St John's





A couple of years ago, I witnessed a cyclists who rode too close to the

concrete railing on the Sellwood bridge, trying to avoid a pedestrian

(me), hit her bar on the railing, and went flying out into the road.

Luckily, the nearest vehicle was still 50 meters away (a Ross Island

Sand and Gravel cement truck), and I helped her get herself and her bike

back out of the roadway before being hit.



The only way to properly ride across the Sellwood Bridge is in the

roadway. The sidewalks are just too narrow for passing, and I would

recommend obeying the signs that suggest walking your bike, if you wish

to use the sidewalk. Unfortunately, I believe those same signs confuse

motorists, who think that cyclists are SUPPOSED to use the sidewalk.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe, by law, cyclists

are treated as motor vehicles, and are SUPPOSED to use the roadway.



A sign, to that effect (CYCLISTS IN ROADWAY), would probably help a

great deal.



-Steven Mullen.





-----Original Message-----

From: ".David.Auker." <Dav-@Hevanet.com>

Sent: Dec 11, 2005 8:18 PM

To: cycl-@yahoo.com

Cc: obra <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St John's



steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser wrote:



 Dave, I meant for this to go to everyone.



When they put those signs up on bridges that have no room like the

Sellwood, they are using us as martyrs. They can just through a few

cyclists out the to get hit so that the public gets in an uproar one

way or the other and the legislature has to come up with the funds so

that "more won't have to die" instead of proactively trying to get the



 funds, knowing it will be too hard of a battle and they might loose

some votes for "spending all that tax money on bike riders".

Be a martyr if you want but I would rather live to ride on another

sidewalk and try to get them to do it right the first time.







Life's too short to be always riding on sidewalks (not to mention

annoying the walkers). I'll take my chances on the roadway, when given

the choice. It's not for everyone, though, and I can appreciate that.

However, you've GOT to have some aggressive "in your face" attitude when



riding on any road shared with cars, and looking for too many sidewalks

stiffles efficient journeys across town. It's like living like a

refugee...*



David



*

Somewhere, somehow, somebody must have

Kicked you around some

Who knows, maybe you were kidnapped,

Tied-up, taken away, and held for ransom



Honey, it don?t really matter to me

Baby, everybody?s ha d to fight to be free

You see, you don?t have to live like a refugee

No, you don?t have to live like a refugee

Baby, you don?t have to live like a refugee



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com













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Doug Evans

2005-12-15



I rode the sidewalk last weekend. I'm pretty sure that I saw signs on the sidewalk which instruct cyclist to yield to Pedestrians.



-----Original Message-----

From: Steven Mullen [mailto:mull-@earthlink.net]

Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:47 AM

To: Dav-@Hevanet.com; cycl-@yahoo.com

Cc: obra

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St John's





A couple of years ago, I witnessed a cyclists who rode too close to the concrete railing on the Sellwood bridge, trying to avoid a pedestrian (me), hit her bar on the railing, and went flying out into the road.   Luckily, the nearest vehicle was still 50 meters away (a Ross Island Sand and Gravel cement truck), and I helped her get herself and her bike back out of the roadway before being hit.



The only way to properly ride across the Sellwood Bridge is in the roadway. The sidewalks are just too narrow for passing, and I would recommend obeying the signs that suggest walking your bike, if you wish to use the sidewalk. Unfortunately, I believe those same signs confuse motorists, who think that cyclists are SUPPOSED to use the sidewalk. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe, by law, cyclists are treated as motor vehicles, and are SUPPOSED to use the roadway.



A sign, to that effect (CYCLISTS IN ROADWAY), would probably help a great deal.



-Steven Mullen.





-----Original Message-----

From: ".David.Auker." <Dav-@Hevanet.com>

Sent: Dec 11, 2005 8:18 PM

To: cycl-@yahoo.com

Cc: obra <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St John's



steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser wrote:



 Dave, I meant for this to go to everyone.



When they put those signs up on bridges that have no room like the

Sellwood, they are using us as martyrs. They can just through a few

cyclists out the to get hit so that the public gets in an uproar one

way or the other and the legislature has to come up with the funds so

that "more won't have to die" instead of proactively trying to get the

funds, knowing it will be too hard of a battle and they might loose

some votes for "spending all that tax money on bike riders".

Be a martyr if you want but I would rather live to ride on another

sidewalk and try to get them to do it right the first time.







Life's too short to be always riding on sidewalks (not to mention

annoying the walkers). I'll take my chances on the roadway, when given

the choice. It's not for everyone, though, and I can appreciate that.

However, you've GOT to have some aggressive "in your face" attitude when

riding on any road shared with cars, and looking for too many sidewalks

stiffles efficient journeys across town. It's like living like a refugee...*



David



*

Somewhere, somehow, somebody must have

Kicked you around some

Who knows, maybe you were kidnapped,

Tied-up, taken away, and held for ransom



Honey, it don?t really matter to me

Baby, everybody?s ha d to fight to be free

You see, you don?t have to live like a refugee

No, you don?t have to live like a refugee

Baby, you don?t have to live like a refugee



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com













The information contained in this electronic message is confidential information intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s) and contains confidential and/or privileged information belonging to Springbrook Software, Inc. or its customers or partners. Any unauthorized review, use, copying, disclosure or distribution of this message is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended recipient of this message, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all soft and hard copies of the message and any attachments. Thank you.



Springbrook Software, Inc.

Visit us at www.springbrooksoftware.com



markjgi-@yahoo.com

2005-12-14

bicyclist live in a strange legal world, we are both vehilces of the road and sometimes pedestrians.



Sort of like quantum physics where something can be in 2 places at once.



as for sellwood brigde, yes, you can ride on the roadway and signs say walk on the "sidewalk".



Marl Ginsberg



Steven Mullen <mull-@earthlink.net> wrote:A couple of years ago, I witnessed a cyclists who rode too close to the concrete railing on the Sellwood bridge, trying to avoid a pedestrian (me), hit her bar on the railing, and went flying out into the road. Luckily, the nearest vehicle was still 50 meters away (a Ross Island Sand and Gravel cement truck), and I helped her get herself and her bike back out of the roadway before being hit.



The only way to properly ride across the Sellwood Bridge is in the roadway. The sidewalks are just too narrow for passing, and I would recommend obeying the signs that suggest walking your bike, if you wish to use the sidewalk. Unfortunately, I believe those same signs confuse motorists, who think that cyclists are SUPPOSED to use the sidewalk. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe, by law, cyclists are treated as motor vehicles, and are SUPPOSED to use the roadway.



A sign, to that effect (CYCLISTS IN ROADWAY), would probably help a great deal.



-Steven Mullen.





-----Original Message-----

From: ".David.Auker."

Sent: Dec 11, 2005 8:18 PM

To: cycl-@yahoo.com

Cc: obra

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St John's



steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser wrote:



 Dave, I meant for this to go to everyone.



When they put those signs up on bridges that have no room like the

Sellwood, they are using us as martyrs. They can just through a few

cyclists out the to get hit so that the public gets in an uproar one

way or the other and the legislature has to come up with the funds so

that "more won't have to die" instead of proactively trying to get the

funds, knowing it will be too hard of a battle and they might loose

some votes for "spending all that tax money on bike riders".

Be a martyr if you want but I would rather live to ride on another

sidewalk and try to get them to do it right the first time.







Life's too short to be always riding on sidewalks (not to mention

annoying the walkers). I'll take my chances on the roadway, when given

the choice. It's not for everyone, though, and I can appreciate that.

However, you've GOT to have some aggressive "in your face" attitude when

riding on any road shared with cars, and looking for too many sidewalks

stiffles efficient journeys across town. It's like living like a refugee...*



David



*

Somewhere, somehow, somebody must have

Kicked you around some

Who knows, maybe you were kidnapped,

Tied-up, taken away, and held for ransom



Honey, it don?t really matter to me

Baby, everybody?s ha d to fight to be free

You see, you don?t have to live like a refugee

No, you don?t have to live like a refugee

Baby, you don?t have to live like a refugee



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



















Mark J. Ginsberg

Attorney At Law

621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900

Portland, OR 97204

(503) 542-3000

Fax (503) 227-2530

markjgi-@yahoo.com

www.bikesafetylaw.com



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Shopping

Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping



Steven Mullen

2005-12-14



A couple of years ago, I witnessed a cyclists who rode too close to the concrete railing on the Sellwood bridge, trying to avoid a pedestrian (me), hit her bar on the railing, and went flying out into the road.   Luckily, the nearest vehicle was still 50 meters away (a Ross Island Sand and Gravel cement truck), and I helped her get herself and her bike back out of the roadway before being hit.



The only way to properly ride across the Sellwood Bridge is in the roadway. The sidewalks are just too narrow for passing, and I would recommend obeying the signs that suggest walking your bike, if you wish to use the sidewalk. Unfortunately, I believe those same signs confuse motorists, who think that cyclists are SUPPOSED to use the sidewalk. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe, by law, cyclists are treated as motor vehicles, and are SUPPOSED to use the roadway.



A sign, to that effect (CYCLISTS IN ROADWAY), would probably help a great deal.



-Steven Mullen.





-----Original Message-----

From: ".David.Auker." <Dav-@Hevanet.com>

Sent: Dec 11, 2005 8:18 PM

To: cycl-@yahoo.com

Cc: obra <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] St John's



steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser wrote:



 Dave, I meant for this to go to everyone.



When they put those signs up on bridges that have no room like the

Sellwood, they are using us as martyrs. They can just through a few

cyclists out the to get hit so that the public gets in an uproar one

way or the other and the legislature has to come up with the funds so

that "more won't have to die" instead of proactively trying to get the

funds, knowing it will be too hard of a battle and they might loose

some votes for "spending all that tax money on bike riders".

Be a martyr if you want but I would rather live to ride on another

sidewalk and try to get them to do it right the first time.







Life's too short to be always riding on sidewalks (not to mention

annoying the walkers). I'll take my chances on the roadway, when given

the choice. It's not for everyone, though, and I can appreciate that.

However, you've GOT to have some aggressive "in your face" attitude when

riding on any road shared with cars, and looking for too many sidewalks

stiffles efficient journeys across town. It's like living like a refugee...*



David



*

Somewhere, somehow, somebody must have

Kicked you around some

Who knows, maybe you were kidnapped,

Tied-up, taken away, and held for ransom



Honey, it don?t really matter to me

Baby, everybody?s ha d to fight to be free

You see, you don?t have to live like a refugee

No, you don?t have to live like a refugee

Baby, you don?t have to live like a refugee



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



.David.Auker.

2005-12-11



steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser wrote:



 Dave, I meant for this to go to everyone.



When they put those signs up on bridges that have no room like the

Sellwood, they are using us as martyrs. They can just through a few

cyclists out the to get hit so that the public gets in an uproar one

way or the other and the legislature has to come up with the funds so

that "more won't have to die" instead of proactively trying to get the

funds, knowing it will be too hard of a battle and they might loose

some votes for "spending all that tax money on bike riders".

Be a martyr if you want but I would rather live to ride on another

sidewalk and try to get them to do it right the first time.







Life's too short to be always riding on sidewalks (not to mention

annoying the walkers). I'll take my chances on the roadway, when given

the choice. It's not for everyone, though, and I can appreciate that.

However, you've GOT to have some aggressive "in your face" attitude when

riding on any road shared with cars, and looking for too many sidewalks

stiffles efficient journeys across town. It's like living like a refugee...*



David



*

Somewhere, somehow, somebody must have

Kicked you around some

Who knows, maybe you were kidnapped,

Tied-up, taken away, and held for ransom



Honey, it don?t really matter to me

Baby, everybody?s ha d to fight to be free

You see, you don?t have to live like a refugee

No, you don?t have to live like a refugee

Baby, you don?t have to live like a refugee



steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser

2005-12-11

Dave, I meant for this to go to everyone.



When they put those signs up on bridges that have no room like the Sellwood, they are using us as martyrs. They can just through a few cyclists out the to get hit so that the public gets in an uproar one way or the other and the legislature has to come up with the funds so that "more won't have to die" instead of proactively trying to get the funds, knowing it will be too hard of a battle and they might loose some votes for "spending all that tax money on bike riders".

    Be a martyr if you want but I would rather live to ride on another sidewalk and try to get them to do it right the first time.

                                            Steve "Lovin' Life" Truesdale









Steve Truesdale

Digital DJ Service

503-232-1704

http://www.digitaldjservice.com