I-pod recommendations

Thomas Hoffman

2005-12-19

I never knew that I-Pods could carry so much controversy.



I love riding with tunes. I always seem to hear the traffic anyway.







I find that riding with music helps me fall into a wonderful Zen like trans

where miles of road disappear, leaving behind the worries of life.







But riding with tunes requires some etiquette and responsibility, never

bring it to group rides (riders in groups need to communicate), turn it off

to ride in heavy traffic and always pull off the head phones when

approaching a fellow cyclist, mostly to exchange hellos, (leaving them on

seems rude.)







These are my choices, I don't see myself as endangering anyone, save for

myself. I don't see the difference between this and the goofballs riding

Harley's in jeans and a T-Shirt, something I would never dream of doing. But

I bet most of us could keep up with that same rider heading down Germantown

road, wearing 9oz of foam and a thin layer of Lycra, and we think nothing of

it. Heck we may even ride elbow to elbow, fighting for a better line.

(Motorists would be arrested for this)







So to my Fellow I-Pod People, I say Rock on! But please be safe out there.







Thomas Hoffman



_____



From: Long, Steve [mailto:Steve-@clark.wa.gov]

Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 6:59 AM

To: marila_-@yahoo.com; nelle-@earthlink.net

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] I-pod recommendations







Bicycling is, inherently, more dangerous than driving a car. I seriously

doubt that a correlation between the two applies. When riding a bicycle,

I've seen something as slight as a small, dead carcus in the road cause a

cyclist to go down with major injuries. This is very unlikely in a car.

Because riding a bicycle is so dangerous, and even if hearing perception is

a small part of a cyclist's early warning system, it remains, nonetheless,

an important part of the overall defenses a cyclist has in staying as safe

as possible on the road and keeping other cyclists safe as well. When riding

in a situation where other cyclists need to communicate with the earphone

wearing cyclist, it can actually cause accidents.







HTH,



not intending to offend



_____



From: Marila Alvares [mailto:marila_-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 4:13 PM

To: nelle-@earthlink.net

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I-pod recommendations



Ellen,



Perhaps you can step down from your soap box long enough to read some

interesting points made in a recent issue of Bicycling Magazine:







"Even under quiet conditions, hearing is only a small part of a cyclist's

sensory warning system," says John Allen, an MIT-trained engineer who has

served as an expert consultant in hundreds of bicycle-related lawsuits, and

whose study of acoustics includes the English translation of the book

Spatial Hearing. "While the sense of hearing can indicate that something is

there, it cannot indicate that nothing is there," he reasons. Indeed, as

Allen points out, there are no laws restricting deaf people from riding a

bike, nor are there reports of high accident rates for hearing-impaired

riders. And we've never heard of a problem from wearing an ear-covering

headband in cold weather. Between engine growl and ear-covering helmets--of

which the latest ! have built-in speakers--a motorcyclist hears far less

than a bicyclist. Modern cars are designed to insulate the driver from

outside noise. Deafeningly loud music is perfectly legal for drivers, but a

cyclist wearing headphones--regardless of the volume--may be breaking the

law.







While I often ride with my iPod set on a low volume, the one time in my life

that I have been hit by a car (a delivery truck, specifically), happened

just a couple of months ago, and I was NOT wearing my earphones. Unless the

person that caused the STP pileup that you mention was playing air guitar, I

seriously doubt that the his/her listening to music was the cause of that

crash.







Marila











nelle-@earthlink.net wrote:



Pablo Espinosa wrote:



 For those geeks/cyclists a! t heart, I built a custom case for my nano out

of an altoids box.



Some kid had lots of time in his hands:



http://www.ipodgarage.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2919



The case works fantastic during rides and it took about 20min to build.



Pablo



adcamp-@earthlink.net wrote:





 Thanks to all who helped/contributed. Many were interested in the

findings. My conclusion is that the Nano is the way to go but getting a

good cover is key as the screen scratches easily. Thanks!





Dave Campbell

adcamp-@earthlink.net

EarthLink Revolves Around You.



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

After rid! ing



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Long, Steve

2005-12-19

Bicycling is, inherently, more dangerous than driving a car. I seriously

doubt that a correlation between the two applies. When riding a bicycle,

I've seen something as slight as a small, dead carcus in the road cause

a cyclist to go down with major injuries. This is very unlikely in a

car. Because riding a bicycle is so dangerous, and even if hearing

perception is a small part of a cyclist's early warning system, it

remains, nonetheless, an important part of the overall defenses a

cyclist has in staying as safe as possible on the road and keeping other

cyclists safe as well. When riding in a situation where other cyclists

need to communicate with the earphone wearing cyclist, it can actually

cause accidents.



HTH,

not intending to offend



________________________________



From: Marila Alvares [mailto:marila_-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 4:13 PM

To: nelle-@earthlink.net

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I-pod recommendations





Ellen,

Perhaps you can step down from your soap box long enough to read some

interesting points made in a recent issue of Bicycling Magazine:



"Even under quiet conditions, hearing is only a small part of a

cyclist's sensory warning system," says John Allen, an MIT-trained

engineer who has served as an expert consultant in hundreds of

bicycle-related lawsuits, and whose study of acoustics includes the

English translation of the book Spatial Hearing. "While the sense of

hearing can indicate that something is there, it cannot indicate that

nothing is there," he reasons. Indeed, as Allen points out, there are no

laws restricting deaf people from riding a bike, nor are there reports

of high accident rates for hearing-impaired riders. And we've never

heard of a problem from wearing an ear-covering headband in cold

weather. Between engine growl and ear-covering helmets--of which the

latest ! have built-in speakers--a motorcyclist hears far less than a

bicyclist. Modern cars are designed to insulate the driver from outside

noise. Deafeningly loud music is perfectly legal for drivers, but a

cyclist wearing headphones--regardless of the volume--may be breaking

the law.



While I often ride with my iPod set on a low volume, the one time in my

life that I have been hit by a car (a delivery truck, specifically),

happened just a couple of months ago, and I was NOT wearing my

earphones. Unless the person that caused the STP pileup that you mention

was playing air guitar, I seriously doubt that the his/her listening to

music was the cause of that crash.



Marila







nelle-@earthlink.net wrote:



Pablo Espinosa wrote:



>For those geeks/cyclists a! t heart, I built a custom case for

my nano out

>of an altoids box.

>

>Some kid had lots of time in his hands:

>

>http://www.ipodgarage.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2919

>

>The case works fantastic during rides and it took about 20min

to build.

>

>Pablo

>

>adcamp-@earthlink.net wrote:

>

>

>>Thanks to all who helped/contributed. Many were interested in

the

>>findings. My conclusion is that the Nano is the way to go but

getting a

>>good cover is key as the screen scratches easily. Thanks!

>>

>>

>>Dave Campbell

>>adcamp-@earthlink.net

>>EarthLink Revolves Around You.

>>

>>

>

>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

>

>

>

>

After rid! ing



Schreck, George

2005-12-16



My experience with STP suggests that the crashes occur more due to the

capabilities of the riders than anything else. Many of there riders are

riding in pace lines or packs for the first time in their lives, and

have no idea how to behave. I have seen riders in the middle of a pack

decide to stop suddenly or change their line without warning, and large

crashes have resulted. With or without headphones, there riders are

often oblivious the proper way to ride in a group, and the crashes have

more to do with that than headphones. I would suggest that in those

situation, hearing riders behind or near you does make you more aware of

their presence and the need to ride properly, but I do not think it

carries over to normal every day riding.



-----Original Message-----

From: Ken Morton [mailto:k7f-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:01 AM

To: nelle-@earthlink.net; espinos-@yahoo.com

Cc: ob-@topica.com; adcamp-@earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I-pod recommendations



--- nelle-@earthlink.net wrote:



 After riding Safety Patrol for STP as a medic(MD) and attending to

pile

ups from riders in pace lines listening to music/books on tape, I

frankly find it very poor judgement to ride a bike plugged into

anything

other than your body. Cycling is a dangerous sport and there are

many

risks involved for yourself and others. Riding with earphones(unless



your the likes of Lance) is dangerous and irresponsible.



Ellen



I've logged arounbd 5,000 miles on the bike this year, most of it with

a mini-disk player and an earphone plugged into one ear, or with a pace

car behind be blasting music over a PA system. I've had _no_ crashes

because I was listening to music.



I've driven well over 10K miles this year, and if I'm in the car, my

radio is on. I listen to books-on-tape, XM or broadcast radio. I've

have not crashed my car this year.



I listen to the radio at work all the time. While I've had a number of

computer crashes, non are directly tied to listening to the radio. I

have yet to crash my office chair.



I've always wondered where the myth that listening to music causes bike

crashes comes from. Are there any hard facts to support it, or is it

just because a group of people think "it's a bad idea!"?



Ken, dangerous and irresponsible





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Marila Alvares

2005-12-16

Ellen,

Perhaps you can step down from your soap box long enough to read some interesting points made in a recent issue of Bicycling Magazine:

   

"Even under quiet conditions, hearing is only a small part of a cyclist's sensory warning system," says John Allen, an MIT-trained engineer who has served as an expert consultant in hundreds of bicycle-related lawsuits, and whose study of acoustics includes the English translation of the book Spatial Hearing. "While the sense of hearing can indicate that something is there, it cannot indicate that nothing is there," he reasons. Indeed, as Allen points out, there are no laws restricting deaf people from riding a bike, nor are there reports of high accident rates for hearing-impaired riders. And we've never heard of a problem from wearing an ear-covering headband in cold weather. Between engine growl and ear-covering helmets--of which the latest have built-in speakers--a motorcyclist hears far less than a bicyclist. Modern cars are designed to insulate the driver from outside noise. Deafeningly loud music is perfectly legal for drivers, but a cyclist wearing headphones--regardless of

the volume--may be breaking the law.

   

While I often ride with my iPod set on a low volume, the one time in my life that I have been hit by a car (a delivery truck, specifically), happened just a couple of months ago, and I was NOT wearing my earphones. Unless the person that caused the STP pileup that you mention was playing air guitar, I seriously doubt that the his/her listening to music was the cause of that crash.

   

Marila

   





nelle-@earthlink.net wrote: Pablo Espinosa wrote:



 For those geeks/cyclists at heart, I built a custom case for my nano out

of an altoids box.



Some kid had lots of time in his hands:



http://www.ipodgarage.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2919



The case works fantastic during rides and it took about 20min to build.



Pablo



adcamp-@earthlink.net wrote:





 Thanks to all who helped/contributed. Many were interested in the

findings. My conclusion is that the Nano is the way to go but getting a

good cover is key as the screen scratches easily. Thanks!





Dave Campbell

adcamp-@earthlink.net

EarthLink Revolves Around You.



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

After riding Safety Patrol for STP as a medic(MD) and attending to pile

ups from riders in pace lines listening to music/books on tape, I

frankly find it very poor judgement to ride a bike plugged into anything

other than your body. Cycling is a dangerous sport and there are many

risks involved for yourself and others. Riding with earphones(unless

your the likes of Lance) is dangerous and irresponsible.



Ellen



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com









__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com



Jon Kraft

2005-12-16



You can tune in without tuning out.



Jon



-----Original Message-----

From: Ken Morton [mailto:k7f-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:01 AM

To: nelle-@earthlink.net; espinos-@yahoo.com

Cc: ob-@topica.com; adcamp-@earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] I-pod recommendations



--- nelle-@earthlink.net wrote:



 After riding Safety Patrol for STP as a medic(MD) and attending to

pile ups from riders in pace lines listening to music/books on tape, I



 frankly find it very poor judgement to ride a bike plugged into

anything other than your body. Cycling is a dangerous sport and there



 are many risks involved for yourself and others. Riding with

earphones(unless



your the likes of Lance) is dangerous and irresponsible.



Ellen



I've logged arounbd 5,000 miles on the bike this year, most of it with a

mini-disk player and an earphone plugged into one ear, or with a pace

car behind be blasting music over a PA system. I've had _no_ crashes

because I was listening to music.



I've driven well over 10K miles this year, and if I'm in the car, my

radio is on. I listen to books-on-tape, XM or broadcast radio. I've have

not crashed my car this year.



I listen to the radio at work all the time. While I've had a number of

computer crashes, non are directly tied to listening to the radio. I

have yet to crash my office chair.



I've always wondered where the myth that listening to music causes bike

crashes comes from. Are there any hard facts to support it, or is it

just because a group of people think "it's a bad idea!"?



Ken, dangerous and irresponsible





__________________________________________________

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Ken Morton

2005-12-16



--- nelle-@earthlink.net wrote:



 After riding Safety Patrol for STP as a medic(MD) and attending to

pile

ups from riders in pace lines listening to music/books on tape, I

frankly find it very poor judgement to ride a bike plugged into

anything

other than your body. Cycling is a dangerous sport and there are

many

risks involved for yourself and others. Riding with earphones(unless



your the likes of Lance) is dangerous and irresponsible.



Ellen



I've logged arounbd 5,000 miles on the bike this year, most of it with

a mini-disk player and an earphone plugged into one ear, or with a pace

car behind be blasting music over a PA system. I've had _no_ crashes

because I was listening to music.



I've driven well over 10K miles this year, and if I'm in the car, my

radio is on. I listen to books-on-tape, XM or broadcast radio. I've

have not crashed my car this year.



I listen to the radio at work all the time. While I've had a number of

computer crashes, non are directly tied to listening to the radio. I

have yet to crash my office chair.



I've always wondered where the myth that listening to music causes bike

crashes comes from. Are there any hard facts to support it, or is it

just because a group of people think "it's a bad idea!"?



Ken, dangerous and irresponsible





__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com



nelle-@earthlink.net

2005-12-15



Pablo Espinosa wrote:



 For those geeks/cyclists at heart, I built a custom case for my nano out

of an altoids box.



Some kid had lots of time in his hands:



http://www.ipodgarage.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2919



The case works fantastic during rides and it took about 20min to build.



Pablo



adcamp-@earthlink.net wrote:





 Thanks to all who helped/contributed. Many were interested in the

findings. My conclusion is that the Nano is the way to go but getting a

good cover is key as the screen scratches easily. Thanks!





Dave Campbell

adcamp-@earthlink.net

EarthLink Revolves Around You.

    



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

After riding Safety Patrol for STP as a medic(MD) and attending to pile

ups from riders in pace lines listening to music/books on tape, I

frankly find it very poor judgement to ride a bike plugged into anything

other than your body. Cycling is a dangerous sport and there are many

risks involved for yourself and others. Riding with earphones(unless

your the likes of Lance) is dangerous and irresponsible.



Ellen



Pablo Espinosa

2005-12-14



For those geeks/cyclists at heart, I built a custom case for my nano out

of an altoids box.



Some kid had lots of time in his hands:



http://www.ipodgarage.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2919



The case works fantastic during rides and it took about 20min to build.



Pablo



adcamp-@earthlink.net wrote:

 Thanks to all who helped/contributed. Many were interested in the

findings. My conclusion is that the Nano is the way to go but getting a

good cover is key as the screen scratches easily. Thanks!





Dave Campbell

adcamp-@earthlink.net

EarthLink Revolves Around You.



adcamp-@earthlink.net

2005-12-13

Thanks to all who helped/contributed. Many were interested in the findings. My conclusion is that the Nano is the way to go but getting a good cover is key as the screen scratches easily. Thanks!





Dave Campbell

adcamp-@earthlink.net

EarthLink Revolves Around You.