OBRA: OBRA Chat: WTB: WARM cycling Jacket

nelle-@earthlink.net

2005-12-16

.David.Auker. wrote:

Two words: Micro-zonal layers. For instance: I sometimes wear 5

layers over the lower knee area, 0 layers over the shin/calf. Wool.

Fleece. Stuff it.

David

Michael O'Hair wrote:

One word: Layers

The only windproof jacket I've found is the PVC "rain jacket."

Bundle up

with three or four layers under that and life is tolerable. When the

temperature drops below 40 degrees, I wear at least three layers on

my legs

to keep from losing heat.

To extend the topic, does anyone have recommendations for ear muffs?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 9:15 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] WTB: WARM cycling Jacket

Looks like it might be a really cold winter here in the

W Valley! Just in time for me to return my leased car tomorrow

and go FT bicycle commuter! BRRR!! Does anyone have for sale or could

recommend a SERIOUSLY good windproof thermal type cycling jacket?

Regards,

Keith

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Check out Team Sales in L/O where Julie Browning works. Lots of really

warm windproof jackets. Lots on line too.

Susan Otcenas

2005-12-15

Gore is a marketing company and doesn't actually produce any of the

fabrics that bear their name.

This is not entirely accurate. WL Gore is a multi-billion dollar company

with a vast array of products in far flung industries, most of them having

nothing to do with apparel. As relates to cycling clothing, Gore

manufactures the goretex membrane, which is then laminated onto various

fabrics to create waterproof (Goretex) and windproof (WindStopper) fabrics

used in a variety of athletic apparel. It is true that, traditionally, WL

Gore sold the membrane to fabric and apparel companies and would only permit

the membrane to be used in certain ways, and garments to be constructed in

certain ways (ie. requiring garments bearing the Goretex label be fully

seam-taped so that there would be no leakage through the tiny holes created

from sewing needles.)

However, for several years now, Gore has been producing it's own line of

cycling-specific apparel. It was originally called Concurve, but they

wised-up and now call the brand Gore Bike Wear.   They also produce a line

of run-focused apparel under the Runner's World label that uses Goretex and

Windstopper fabrics.

As far as what else is out there: WindTex (made by Vagotex of Italy) is

comparable to WindStopper and is used by a number of cycling apparel

manufacturers in wind-proof outerwear and gloves. There are many others as

well.

For waterproof-breathable, there are many choices other than Goretex. Some

of the best (in terms of breathability, so you don't overheat) are Entrant

by Toray and eVent by BHA Technologies.    eVent is what Shower's Pass is

using and it's probably the most breathable cycling jacket on the market

right now.   Available in men's and women's pieces. Pearl Izumi makes an

eVent jacket as well, but only in men's.

Susan

--------------------------------------------

Susan Otcenas

TEAM ESTROGEN, INC. __~o

2038 NW Aloclek Dr., Suite 220     -\_<,

Hillsboro, OR 97124    (*)/'(*)

http://www.TeamEstrogen.com

1-877-310-4592

--------------------------------------------

Cycling Apparel and Accessories for Women

--------------------------------------------

Douglas Duguay

2005-12-15

While the Gore Windstopper line is an excellent choice for a cycling jacket, there are many other brands that would be suitable for winter riding. Gore is a marketing company and doesn't actually produce any of the fabrics that bear their name. Jackets from Giordana, Showers Pass, Santini, Assos, Castelli and others would have many of the same properties of Windstopper and in many cases cost less.

Doug

RCJoh-@attglobal.net wrote:

Check out the Gore Windstopper line. They have some seriously good

choices that have proven themselves well over here in Bend

Sorry, no way I'm giving mine up... you have to get your own.

Rick

Keith A. Prior wrote:

Looks like it might be a really cold winter here in the

W Valley! Just in time for me to return my leased car tomorrow

and go FT bicycle commuter! BRRR!! Does anyone have for sale or could

recommend a SERIOUSLY good windproof thermal type cycling jacket?

Regards,

Keith

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Keith A. Prior

2005-12-15

Thank you to all who replied and I knew that I would receive a wealth of

info

from everyone.

The biggest reason for my inquiry, and maybe I should have specified this,

is that I dress plenty warm enough as this is my 5th winter as a cyclist but

now that I am

riding in the early early AM hours its bloody cold at around 28-33 degrees!

The real problem I have is getting to the top of Cornel/Skyline sweating and

wet then bombing

down into Beaverton risking hypothermia with the 35 mph breeze! I usually

throw on my

emergency 'greenhouse' plastic jacket until I get to the bottom but it does

have some ventilation

area along the sides.

I dont mind sweating like a hog on the climb as long as when I go down the

other side I dont

have a breeze coming in!

Thanks everyone! :)

-K

RCJoh-@attglobal.net

2005-12-15

From a simple post about jacket recommendations we've evolved into a

full-blown thread about winter layering. I'm wondering if that's an

indication of a desire for more information or just a reflection of all

the great information willing to be shared?

Thinking of my own experience I could write a pretty long article on the

subject of keeping warm through a variety of conditions. Not just

bicycling (where my riding season temperature range has sometimes been

from 0 to 104F) but lessons and tips from a whole spectrum of activities.

The question is, does anybody want to read it? Or are we just bored?

I'd be happy to share if there's enough interest.

Here's a couple tidbits:

I like the adaptation about using newspaper in a pinch but nobody has

yet mentioned the to make sure you use a quality newspaper. The cheaper

ones use low quality ink that rubs off leaving you looking like a coal

miner at the end of the day.

Always carry a couple thin plastic bags, the kind you get from the bulk

foods section at the grocery store. They are small and light enough to

be inconsequential but are amazingly effective to keep your feet warm.

Use them over your socks and inside your shoes/boots. Yes, your feet

will sweat but they will be warm. Sweat or frostbite? Your choice.

Rick's 10 Degree Layering Guide

Start with the temperature you feel comfortable riding in a jersey and

shorts. Compare that to the current temperature (rounded to the nearest

5 degrees). For every 10 degrees difference plan to wear one extra layer.

Add or subtract layers based on other considerations such as:

Fog or high humidity add one layer

High wind add one

Recovery, long distance or other slow paced ride add one

Sprint or intervals subtract one

Early start with temps expected to rise subtract one

Layers are counted as:

1 each for base layer top, bottom, non-insulated jacket, pant or tight

2 each for combination insulated and windproof jacket or pant

Half layer credit for vest, arm or leg warmers

Example:

Rider's normal comfort temp is 75. Going for medium paced ride at 35

degrees in light fog. 75-35=40 degree difference or four extra layers.

Add one bonus for the expected fog thus a total of five layers.

Wear layers:

1) Base top

2) Base bottom

3-4) Insulated windproof jacket

5) Windproof pant or tights

Gloves, hats and shoe covers assigned by temp range and riders

preference. Example: light gloves for all conditions over 50, medium

for 30-50, heavy for below 30. Perhaps toe covers only above 40, full

covers below. These three elements vary greatly between individuals.

Want any more?

Rick

RCJoh-@attglobal.net

2005-12-15

"...and I explained to several potential Hispanic customers why the

shirts were so long at the back."

One question... How does one get to be a "potential Hispanic"? Is there

a waiting list or something?

;-) Rick

Jim Thomas wrote:

It wasn't cheap, but I use a GoreTex jacket all winter and it is

great, whether slightly warm 34 degree rain, or the freezing weather

we have had lately. However, I think the under layers make the

biggest difference and two of the local bike shops have converted me

to Craft. Hats, shirts and tights that are windproof on the front. I

got the jacket on the sale rack some time back at River City. The

Craft hats are great, even if they are not ear muffs. About $15 at

the bike shops and about $4 at Goodwill if you wear medium.

With apologies to the recent discussants regarding purchasing at the

Goodwill on 122nd, I got 10 Craft undergarments there and they are

being put to incredibly good use. They had an undershirt with

windbreaker fabric on the front that is way easier to wear than

newspaper, and I explained to several potential hispanic customers

why the shirts were so long at the back.

Jim

On Dec 14, 2005, at 12:52, Michael O'Hair wrote:

One word: Layers

The only windproof jacket I've found is the PVC "rain jacket."

Bundle up

with three or four layers under that and life is tolerable. When the

temperature drops below 40 degrees, I wear at least three layers on

my legs

to keep from losing heat.

To extend the topic, does anyone have recommendations for ear muffs?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 9:15 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] WTB: WARM cycling Jacket

Looks like it might be a really cold winter here in the

W Valley! Just in time for me to return my leased car tomorrow

and go FT bicycle commuter! BRRR!! Does anyone have for sale or could

recommend a SERIOUSLY good windproof thermal type cycling jacket?

Regards,

Keith

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Vicki Schroeder

2005-12-15

A newspaper windbreaker is also great when you're racing. I used it at

the Mt Hood stage race and it was perfect for the down-up courses

there. Put it under your jersey on the way down, yank it out and fold

or crumple it into your pocket for the trip up. Much easier than trying

to take a jacket off in the pack!

Vicki

.David.Auker.

2005-12-14

Two words: Micro-zonal layers. For instance: I sometimes wear 5 layers

over the lower knee area, 0 layers over the shin/calf. Wool. Fleece.

Stuff it.

David

Michael O'Hair wrote:

One word: Layers

The only windproof jacket I've found is the PVC "rain jacket." Bundle up

with three or four layers under that and life is tolerable. When the

temperature drops below 40 degrees, I wear at least three layers on my legs

to keep from losing heat.

To extend the topic, does anyone have recommendations for ear muffs?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 9:15 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] WTB: WARM cycling Jacket

Looks like it might be a really cold winter here in the

W Valley! Just in time for me to return my leased car tomorrow

and go FT bicycle commuter! BRRR!! Does anyone have for sale or could

recommend a SERIOUSLY good windproof thermal type cycling jacket?

Regards,

Keith

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Jim Thomas

2005-12-14

It wasn't cheap, but I use a GoreTex jacket all winter and it is

great, whether slightly warm 34 degree rain, or the freezing weather

we have had lately. However, I think the under layers make the

biggest difference and two of the local bike shops have converted me

to Craft. Hats, shirts and tights that are windproof on the front. I

got the jacket on the sale rack some time back at River City. The

Craft hats are great, even if they are not ear muffs. About $15 at

the bike shops and about $4 at Goodwill if you wear medium.

With apologies to the recent discussants regarding purchasing at the

Goodwill on 122nd, I got 10 Craft undergarments there and they are

being put to incredibly good use. They had an undershirt with

windbreaker fabric on the front that is way easier to wear than

newspaper, and I explained to several potential hispanic customers

why the shirts were so long at the back.

Jim

On Dec 14, 2005, at 12:52, Michael O'Hair wrote:

One word: Layers

The only windproof jacket I've found is the PVC "rain jacket."

Bundle up

with three or four layers under that and life is tolerable. When the

temperature drops below 40 degrees, I wear at least three layers on

my legs

to keep from losing heat.

To extend the topic, does anyone have recommendations for ear muffs?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 9:15 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] WTB: WARM cycling Jacket

Looks like it might be a really cold winter here in the

W Valley! Just in time for me to return my leased car tomorrow

and go FT bicycle commuter! BRRR!! Does anyone have for sale or could

recommend a SERIOUSLY good windproof thermal type cycling jacket?

Regards,

Keith

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

john schmidt

2005-12-14

Just a decent tight woven nylon wind breaker(ie water resistent) does

the trick for me in this below 30 riding with a long sleeve wicker and

short sleeve jersey. Too much rain proof and you'll sweat like a race

horse. As long as you have that wicking layer on, you will not feel too

wet, rain or sweat. You want something that zips all the way up and

cover neck.

For years I wore tight-tights and still do some time. I added knee

patches though. But recently and especially for commutting I've been

wearing Loose-Tights. specifically Hind relaxed fit tights with the soft

feel to them (like x-c sking pants cept thinner). The extra air gap

from them being loose works wonders. They have been extremely

comfortable from 60 F all the way down to 30 F. But the best thing is

they go on and off so quickly, which can save time. They also aren't

restricting like tight-tights can be.

For a hat under my helmet, I cut up an old polypro shirt and old lycra

and made a tallish headband. Taller in the front to flap over and keep

the top of my head warm. Its thin to fit under the helmet. My ears were

getting just a tad too cold though and so Last night I added "patches"

(another layer) at the ears. Its perfect now.    So anyway, a great

solution, for "ear muffs" is to simply take an existing head band or

skull cap and cut up some old wicking underwear or lycra, and add

patches to cover your ears.

Its super important to have your ears and head covered good. Its worth

extra layers on the rest of you.

For booties I find the half booties work just fine and go on and off

with ease.   Take wind proof material or double/triple up some lycra (i

had some thick one side fuzzy lycra) Fashion a sock, cut so almost the

whole bottom of your sock is missing but enough in front to hook and

then have the top extend to your ankle. Sew elastic or lycra loop on

the the back.

Doubling up wind resistent jackets too, will really keep you warm.

Its that air gap you are shooting for.

A full sheet of newspaper under your jersey works great too. If you

never tried it, you'll be amazed at how something so thin, so cheap, so

light and so easy can be so warm. Its folds up small obviously. We use

to call it poor-mans gore-tex.

The other thing is to just ride up hill all the time preferably in trees

where there is no wind.

If you don't have access to sewing machine, do the prep work and take it

to a sewing place. Running stiches is the fast and easy part.

Michael O'Hair wrote:

One word: Layers

The only windproof jacket I've found is the PVC "rain jacket." Bundle

up

with three or four layers under that and life is tolerable. When the

temperature drops below 40 degrees, I wear at least three layers on my

legs

to keep from losing heat.

To extend the topic, does anyone have recommendations for ear muffs?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 9:15 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] WTB: WARM cycling Jacket

Looks like it might be a really cold winter here in the

W Valley! Just in time for me to return my leased car tomorrow

and go FT bicycle commuter! BRRR!! Does anyone have for sale or could

recommend a SERIOUSLY good windproof thermal type cycling jacket?

Regards,

Keith

Michael O'Hair

2005-12-14

One word: Layers

The only windproof jacket I've found is the PVC "rain jacket." Bundle up

with three or four layers under that and life is tolerable. When the

temperature drops below 40 degrees, I wear at least three layers on my legs

to keep from losing heat.

To extend the topic, does anyone have recommendations for ear muffs?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 9:15 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] WTB: WARM cycling Jacket

Looks like it might be a really cold winter here in the

W Valley! Just in time for me to return my leased car tomorrow

and go FT bicycle commuter! BRRR!! Does anyone have for sale or could

recommend a SERIOUSLY good windproof thermal type cycling jacket?

Regards,

Keith

RCJoh-@attglobal.net

2005-12-14

Check out the Gore Windstopper line. They have some seriously good

choices that have proven themselves well over here in Bend

Sorry, no way I'm giving mine up... you have to get your own.

Rick

Keith A. Prior wrote:

Looks like it might be a really cold winter here in the

W Valley! Just in time for me to return my leased car tomorrow

and go FT bicycle commuter! BRRR!! Does anyone have for sale or could

recommend a SERIOUSLY good windproof thermal type cycling jacket?

Regards,

Keith

Keith A. Prior

2005-12-14

Looks like it might be a really cold winter here in the

W Valley! Just in time for me to return my leased car tomorrow

and go FT bicycle commuter! BRRR!! Does anyone have for sale or could

recommend a SERIOUSLY good windproof thermal type cycling jacket?

Regards,

Keith