OBRA: OBRA Chat: RE: USCF

STEVE GARCIA

2001-05-11

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Well, that clears up all my concerns...thanks Mike.

<mmur-@teleport.com> 05/11/01 03:10PM >>>=20

I think other people have responded to Emily's note adequately but I =

just=20

wanted to point out that what Emily is complaining about is really a =

USAC=20

problem and not an OBRA problem. USCF could at any point decide that they =

recognize and award upgrades for placing in non-USCF races that otherwise =

meet their distance and field size requirements. They could also stop =

discriminating against riders because of where they live. (If you think =

that is not a problem then talk to Lance Coffel about his experience...Or =

maybe even Steve Larson.)=20

USAC is in serious financial difficulty. If they can manage to turn =

things=20

around so that they can stop the hemorrhage of members and events then it =

is possible that the could fix their problems but it looks very unlikely =

at this point. Ultimately it appears to me that the USAC's ship is =

sinking.=20

It would do us very little good to attach a line to them at this point =

so=20

that we could get dragged down with them.=20

I agree with Emily that the elite level racers pay a price here but it =

is=20

important to recognize that the price they pay is due to the failings =

of=20

USAC not because of the success of OBRA. Even though the elite (or =

potential elite) level racers pay a price they also benefit from the =

larger number of races, larger prize lists and decreased membership and =

ultimately lower race entry costs. Even though Emily has not noticed any =

"decline in race fees since OBRA went solo" you can guarantee that would =

be increases if we were to go back to doing USCF events since the costs to =

the race organizers will go up substantially and the number of riders will =

go down due to the increased membership costs.=20

Having said all this I have to agree that OBRA needs to do a better job =

at=20

encouraging development of elite level riders. Our current system is =

heavily participation based and inclusive rather than exclusive. This is a =

good thing since it has increased the total number of riders. Currently =

Oregon easily has the highest number of bike racers per capita in the US. =

The problem is that the number and quality of lower category and Masters =

races has contributed to the problem of the shrinking of the Cat. 1/2 =

fields. To reverse this trend we need to give riders more reason to become =

Cat 1/2 riders, to stay Cat 1/2 riders and to come to the races that are =

offered. I have several ideas about how we can do that. One big component =

would be to stratify prize lists so that Cat 1/2 riders get substantially =

more. (Why do we prize Old Guy races anyhow? Does it do anything to =

increase participation or to help the sport?)=20

I would love to change this discussion from a rant for or against USAC and =

to a discussion of what we can do to solve our own problems. It is =

unlikely that USAC will be providing us anything other than a bill in the =

near future.=20

Mike Murray=20

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<BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px">Well, that clears up all my concerns...thanks

Mike. >>> <mmur-@teleport.com> 05/11/01 03:10PM

 I think other people have responded to Emily's note adequately

but I just wanted to point out that what Emily is complaining about is

really a USAC problem and not an OBRA problem. USCF could at any point

decide that they recognize and award upgrades for placing in non-USCF races that

otherwise meet their distance and field size requirements. They could also stop

discriminating against riders because of where they live. (If you think that is

not a problem then talk to Lance Coffel about his experience...Or maybe even

Steve Larson.) USAC is in serious financial difficulty. If they can

manage to turn things around so that they can stop the hemorrhage of members

and events then it is possible that the could fix their problems but it looks

very unlikely at this point. Ultimately it appears to me that the USAC's ship is

sinking. It would do us very little good to attach a line to them at this

point so that we could get dragged down with them. I agree with

Emily that the elite level racers pay a price here but it is important to

recognize that the price they pay is due to the failings of USAC not because

of the success of OBRA. Even though the elite (or potential elite) level racers

pay a price they also benefit from the larger number of races, larger prize

lists and decreased membership and ultimately lower race entry costs. Even

though Emily has not noticed any "decline in race fees since OBRA went solo" you

can guarantee that would be increases if we were to go back to doing USCF events

since the costs to the race organizers will go up substantially and the number

of riders will go down due to the increased membership costs. Having

said all this I have to agree that OBRA needs to do a better job at

 encouraging development of elite level riders. Our current system is heavily

participation based and inclusive rather than exclusive. This is a good thing

since it has increased the total number of riders. Currently Oregon easily has

the highest number of bike racers per capita in the US. The problem is that the

number and quality of lower category and Masters races has contributed to the

problem of the shrinking of the Cat. 1/2 fields. To reverse this trend we need

to give riders more reason to become Cat 1/2 riders, to stay Cat 1/2 riders and

to come to the races that are offered. I have several ideas about how we can do

that. One big component would be to stratify prize lists so that Cat 1/2 riders

get substantially more. (Why do we prize Old Guy races anyhow? Does it do

anything to increase participation or to help the sport?) I would love

to change this discussion from a rant for or against USAC and to a discussion of

what we can do to solve our own problems. It is unlikely that USAC will be

providing us anything other than a bill in the near future. Mike Murray

 </BODY></HTML>

--=_EAB12122.224315B2--

mmur-@teleport.com

2001-05-11

I think other people have responded to Emily's note adequately but I just

wanted to point out that what Emily is complaining about is really a USAC

problem and not an OBRA problem. USCF could at any point decide that they

recognize and award upgrades for placing in non-USCF races that otherwise

meet their distance and field size requirements. They could also stop

discriminating against riders because of where they live. (If you think that

is not a problem then talk to Lance Coffel about his experience...Or maybe

even Steve Larson.)

USAC is in serious financial difficulty. If they can manage to turn things

around so that they can stop the hemorrhage of members and events then it is

possible that the could fix their problems but it looks very unlikely at

this point. Ultimately it appears to me that the USAC's ship is sinking.

It would do us very little good to attach a line to them at this point so

that we could get dragged down with them.

I agree with Emily that the elite level racers pay a price here but it is

important to recognize that the price they pay is due to the failings of

USAC not because of the success of OBRA. Even though the elite (or potential

elite) level racers pay a price they also benefit from the larger number of

races, larger prize lists and decreased membership and ultimately lower race

entry costs. Even though Emily has not noticed any "decline in race fees

since OBRA went solo" you can guarantee that would be increases if we were

to go back to doing USCF events since the costs to the race organizers will

go up substantially and the number of riders will go down due to the

increased membership costs.

Having said all this I have to agree that OBRA needs to do a better job at

encouraging development of elite level riders. Our current system is heavily

participation based and inclusive rather than exclusive. This is a good

thing since it has increased the total number of riders. Currently Oregon

easily has the highest number of bike racers per capita in the US. The

problem is that the number and quality of lower category and Masters races

has contributed to the problem of the shrinking of the Cat. 1/2 fields. To

reverse this trend we need to give riders more reason to become Cat 1/2

riders, to stay Cat 1/2 riders and to come to the races that are offered. I

have several ideas about how we can do that. One big component would be to

stratify prize lists so that Cat 1/2 riders get substantially more. (Why do

we prize Old Guy races anyhow? Does it do anything to increase

participation or to help the sport?)

I would love to change this discussion from a rant for or against USAC and

to a discussion of what we can do to solve our own problems. It is unlikely

that USAC will be providing us anything other than a bill in the near

future.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Emily Thurston [mailto:Emily.T-@directory.reed.edu]

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 17:12 PM

To: mmur-@teleport.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] USCF

Hey,

I'm kind of pro-USCF myself.

I appreciate National championships.

I'd like to be in good graces with the National coaches/ national team

members. I feel that OBRA's rebel status puts me at a political

disadvantage.

Are Oregon racers really interested in promoting and developing elite

(senior) level riders? Or are we all about master, junior, lower category

racing? Not to knock any of those racers-- I think the diversity of racers

in the Oregon peloton is pretty cool-- just wondering if elite senior racing

is also important to Oregon racers.

The difficulty new racers have emerging onto the national scene is

disturbing. A lot of the most talented racers don't have the money to fly or

drive around the country in search of developmental USCF races to stair step

up to nationals. One trip a year was a strain on my budget when I started

racing. So how is an underfunded ambitious rider to develop?

I do of course appreciate the Alpenrose/ American Velodrome Challenge that's

developed in Oregon since OBRA split off.

I haven't notice any decline in race fees since OBRA went solo. The

service-- being well-connected to a national system-- has declined.

I guess, I wonder, now that we've shown we can do it solo; shown that we

have pride and initiative, etc., are we proving anything by continuing the

split? Seems the USCF is more open to our feedback than they were. Probably

they'd be more interested in negotiating with us if we'd show some interest

in negotiating with them; compromises might be necessary on both sides.

I don't want to offend anybody. I know that all the organizers in OBRA land

do a huge amount of work for little financial compensation, and I appreciate

that.

Elite racers also do a huge amount of work for hardly any compensation. If

we believe in the sport, I think we have to support everybody.

Emily Thurston

Brad GEBHARD

2001-05-11

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and go to college in the offseason so you can make a living when your body and

mind get tired.................

cumm-@ucs.orst.edu wrote:

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Upgrade points are the smallest part or least of an elite level racers

worries. Once you get to be a cat. 1, you then HAVE TO TRAVEL all over the

U.S., not just here in Oregon or Washington. That basically means hitting

the road for weeks on end. Having done that for a few years, the only elite

levels races the Northwest has or has had are still USCF (Willamette,

Cascade and a handful of others), I fail to see how being a non-USCF state

impacts those races.

If you really wanted to get noticed as an elite level race; pack your bags

and hit the road, live off winnings, or prime money, farm you self out to

the local club to cover entry fee's, ask the promoter to make an

announcement of host housing, move to Colorado Springs so you can be seen by

the elite level coaches every training ride you go on with the national

team...

The other simple way is to win nationals or a major event.

Gordon

-----Original Message-----

From: Mark Magilner [mailto:magi-@ohsu.edu]

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:13 PM

To: Emily Thurston

Cc: mmur-@teleport.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] USCF

============================================================

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Here we go again.....

I kinda agree with E.T. (And I kinda disagree). The best local riders

must go to Washington or further to get their "upgrade points". This is

costly and time consuming. In a way they are lucky they only have to

drive a few hours. If WA had "split", they would have to go to CA or

further.

However, The local race scene is strong, with good participation and

support. We are well served by OBRA/Murray and Co. Most local racers are

just that - local - with no desire other than having fun and beating their

friends in an occasional sprint.

I think a compromise might be something to consider (for both sides). The

local racers would still have their organization, and the future national

caliber riders could use Oregon as a launching pad.

Mark

Hey,

I'm kind of pro-USCF myself.

I appreciate National championships.

I'd like to be in good graces with the National coaches/ national team

members.

I feel that OBRA's rebel status puts me at a political disadvantage.

Are Oregon racers really interested in promoting and developing elite

(senior)

level riders? Or are we all about master, junior, lower category racing?

Not

to knock any of those racers-- I think the diversity of racers in the

Oregon

peloton is pretty cool-- just wondering if elite senior racing is also

important

to Oregon racers.

The difficulty new racers have emerging onto the national scene is

disturbing.

A lot of the most talented racers don't have the money to fly or drive

around

the country in search of developmental USCF races to stair step up to

nationals.

One trip a year was a strain on my budget when I started racing. So how

is an

underfunded ambitious rider to develop?

I do of course appreciate the Alpenrose/ American Velodrome Challenge

that's

developed in Oregon since OBRA split off.

I haven't notice any decline in race fees since OBRA went solo. The

service--

being well-connected to a national system-- has declined.

I guess, I wonder, now that we've shown we can do it solo; shown that we

have

pride and initiative, etc., are we proving anything by continuing the

split?

Seems the USCF is more open to our feedback than they were. Probably

they'd be

more interested in negotiating with us if we'd show some interest in

negotiating

with them; compromises might be necessary on both sides.

I don't want to offend anybody. I know that all the organizers in OBRA

land do

a huge amount of work for little financial compensation, and I appreciate

that.

Elite racers also do a huge amount of work for hardly any compensation.

If we

believe in the sport, I think we have to support everybody.

Emily Thurston

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Scott Goldstein

2001-05-10

Hello Patrick:

I clearly am way too stupid to understand your point. =20

I assume you have one.

What you say and say well and truly because (I allow) you did it"

???????

Scott

At 12:31 PM 05/10/2001 -0700, Patrick Hartigan wrote:

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cards =97 an $85 value. Claim this unique FREE gift now!

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Gordon,

What you say and say well and truly because (I allow) you did it.

I'm willing to guess that most of the people on OBRA's e-list has=20

sufficient experience IN OTHER AREAS OF LIFE to empathize with what you say=

=20

about pursuing a career AS A CYCLIST, but, naturally (and to their=20

credit!), people tend to keep their life-lessons close to themselves. I=20

believe that bicycle racing is for many of us a relief, a nostalgic sort of=

=20

play that mimics the real-life wars we have fought to have a career, a=20

family, and a meaningful life.

As the New York cab driver said to the tourist when he asked how to get to=

=20

Carnegie Hall?

"Practice, practice, practice"

And pray for sunshine. Bon chance Emily.

P.

At 12:01 PM 5/10/01 -0700, you wrote:

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Get FREE business cards for your business or personal use!

VistaPrint.com is giving away 250 full color business

cards =97 an $85 value. Claim this unique FREE gift now!

http://click.topica.com/caaab3HaVxiDpaVJk0Ea/VistaPrint

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Upgrade points are the smallest part or least of an elite level racers

worries. Once you get to be a cat. 1, you then HAVE TO TRAVEL all over=

the

U.S., not just here in Oregon or Washington. That basically means hitting

the road for weeks on end. Having done that for a few years, the only=

elite

levels races the Northwest has or has had are still USCF (Willamette,

Cascade and a handful of others), I fail to see how being a non-USCF state

impacts those races.

If you really wanted to get noticed as an elite level race; pack your bags

and hit the road, live off winnings, or prime money, farm you self out to

the local club to cover entry fee's, ask the promoter to make an

announcement of host housing, move to Colorado Springs so you can be seen=

by

the elite level coaches every training ride you go on with the national

team...

The other simple way is to win nationals or a major event.

Gordon

-----Original Message-----

From: Mark Magilner [mailto:magi-@ohsu.edu]

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:13 PM

To: Emily Thurston

Cc: mmur-@teleport.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] USCF

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Get FREE business cards for your business or personal use!

VistaPrint.com is giving away 250 full color business

cards =97 an $85 value. Claim this unique FREE gift now!

http://click.topica.com/caaab3HaVxiDpaVHW94a/VistaPrint

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Here we go again.....

I kinda agree with E.T. (And I kinda disagree). The best local riders

must go to Washington or further to get their "upgrade points". This is

costly and time consuming. In a way they are lucky they only have to

drive a few hours. If WA had "split", they would have to go to CA or

further.

However, The local race scene is strong, with good participation and

support. We are well served by OBRA/Murray and Co. Most local racers are

just that - local - with no desire other than having fun and beating their

friends in an occasional sprint.

I think a compromise might be something to consider (for both sides). The

local racers would still have their organization, and the future national

caliber riders could use Oregon as a launching pad.

Mark

Hey,

I'm kind of pro-USCF myself.

I appreciate National championships.

I'd like to be in good graces with the National coaches/ national team

members.

I feel that OBRA's rebel status puts me at a political disadvantage.

Are Oregon racers really interested in promoting and developing elite

(senior)

level riders? Or are we all about master, junior, lower category=

racing?

Not

to knock any of those racers-- I think the diversity of racers in the

Oregon

peloton is pretty cool-- just wondering if elite senior racing is also

important

to Oregon racers.

The difficulty new racers have emerging onto the national scene is

disturbing.

A lot of the most talented racers don't have the money to fly or drive

around

the country in search of developmental USCF races to stair step up to

nationals.

One trip a year was a strain on my budget when I started racing. So=

how

is an

underfunded ambitious rider to develop?

I do of course appreciate the Alpenrose/ American Velodrome Challenge

that's

developed in Oregon since OBRA split off.

I haven't notice any decline in race fees since OBRA went solo. The

service--

being well-connected to a national system-- has declined.

I guess, I wonder, now that we've shown we can do it solo; shown that=

we

have

pride and initiative, etc., are we proving anything by continuing the

split?

Seems the USCF is more open to our feedback than they were. Probably

they'd be

more interested in negotiating with us if we'd show some interest in

negotiating

with them; compromises might be necessary on both sides.

I don't want to offend anybody. I know that all the organizers in OBRA

land do

a huge amount of work for little financial compensation, and I=

appreciate

that.

Elite racers also do a huge amount of work for hardly any compensation.

If we

believe in the sport, I think we have to support everybody.

Emily Thurston

--- Sponsor's Message --------------------------------------

Discuss Tech News as It Happens!

Keep up with the latest happenings in high tech -- FREE!

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------------------------------------------------------------

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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Patrick P. Hartigan

Paralegal

WHITE & LEE, LLP

Pacific Northwest Office

805 SW Broadway, Suite 2440

Portland, Oregon 97205

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*****************************************************

USC: 21 - Notre Dame: 38 The Agony of Defeat!=20

*****************************************************

Dock, Dion

2001-05-10

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Yes and no about fees dropping. It costs me $15/year to race my road bike

with OBRA. The USCF charges $50/year this year. Add mountain biking and

the difference is something like $20 vs $75.

As for individual events' prices, I suspect the difference is the promoters

simply don't lose as much money as they used to.

-Dion Dock

-----Original Message-----

From: Emily Thurston [mailto:Emily.T-@directory.reed.edu]

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 5:12 PM

To: mmur-@teleport.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] USCF

[Dion Dock] <stuff deleted>

I haven't notice any decline in race fees since OBRA went solo. The

service-- being well-connected to a national system-- has declined.

I guess, I wonder, now that we've shown we can do it solo; shown that we

have pride and initiative, etc., are we proving anything by continuing the

split? Seems the USCF is more open to our feedback than they were. Probably

they'd be more interested in negotiating with us if we'd show some interest

in negotiating with them; compromises might be necessary on both sides.

[Dion Dock] <more stuff deleted>

Emily Thurston

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<DIV>Yes and no about

fees dropping. It costs me $15/year to race my road bike with OBRA.

The USCF charges $50/year this year. Add mountain biking and the

difference is something like $20 vs $75.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>As for individual

events' prices, I suspect the difference is the promoters simply don't lose as

much money as they used to. </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>-Dion

Dock</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr>-----Original Message----- From: Emily Thurston

[mailto:Emily.T-@directory.reed.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 09,

2001 5:12 PM To: mmur-@teleport.com;

ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat]

USCF </DIV>

[Dion

Dock] <stuff deleted> 

I haven't notice any decline in race fees since OBRA went solo. The

service-- being well-connected to a national system-- has declined. 

I guess, I wonder, now that we've shown we can do it solo; shown that we

have pride and initiative, etc., are we proving anything by continuing the

split? Seems the USCF is more open to our feedback than they were. Probably

they'd be more interested in negotiating with us if we'd show some interest in

negotiating with them; compromises might be necessary on both sides. 

[Dion

Dock] <more stuff deleted> 

Emily Thurston </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Patrick Hartigan

2001-05-10

Gordon,

What you say and say well and truly because (I allow) you did it.

I'm willing to guess that most of the people on OBRA's e-list has=20

sufficient experience IN OTHER AREAS OF LIFE to empathize with what you say=

=20

about pursuing a career AS A CYCLIST, but, naturally (and to their=20

credit!), people tend to keep their life-lessons close to themselves. I=20

believe that bicycle racing is for many of us a relief, a nostalgic sort of=

=20

play that mimics the real-life wars we have fought to have a career, a=20

family, and a meaningful life.

As the New York cab driver said to the tourist when he asked how to get to=

=20

Carnegie Hall?

"Practice, practice, practice"

And pray for sunshine. Bon chance Emily.

P.

At 12:01 PM 5/10/01 -0700, you wrote:

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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Upgrade points are the smallest part or least of an elite level racers

worries. Once you get to be a cat. 1, you then HAVE TO TRAVEL all over the

U.S., not just here in Oregon or Washington. That basically means hitting

the road for weeks on end. Having done that for a few years, the only=

elite

levels races the Northwest has or has had are still USCF (Willamette,

Cascade and a handful of others), I fail to see how being a non-USCF state

impacts those races.

If you really wanted to get noticed as an elite level race; pack your bags

and hit the road, live off winnings, or prime money, farm you self out to

the local club to cover entry fee's, ask the promoter to make an

announcement of host housing, move to Colorado Springs so you can be seen=

by

the elite level coaches every training ride you go on with the national

team...

The other simple way is to win nationals or a major event.

Gordon

-----Original Message-----

From: Mark Magilner [mailto:magi-@ohsu.edu]

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:13 PM

To: Emily Thurston

Cc: mmur-@teleport.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] USCF

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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Here we go again.....

I kinda agree with E.T. (And I kinda disagree). The best local riders

must go to Washington or further to get their "upgrade points". This is

costly and time consuming. In a way they are lucky they only have to

drive a few hours. If WA had "split", they would have to go to CA or

further.

However, The local race scene is strong, with good participation and

support. We are well served by OBRA/Murray and Co. Most local racers are

just that - local - with no desire other than having fun and beating their

friends in an occasional sprint.

I think a compromise might be something to consider (for both sides). The

local racers would still have their organization, and the future national

caliber riders could use Oregon as a launching pad.

Mark

Hey,

I'm kind of pro-USCF myself.

I appreciate National championships.

I'd like to be in good graces with the National coaches/ national team