FISCHER,JAMES (HP-Corvallis,ex1)
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Tyler,
I wrote those rules up last year as a result of the exact argument you make
right now; Should experts be scored with Pro/Semi-Pro? If so, then why not
just call it one category?
With OBRA, you can call yourself whatever you want and race whatever
category you like on the ATB side. There has been nothing set-up to
critique the abilities of the various riders to make sure they are in an
appropriate category. There are no required upgrade points; only points
accumulated which count towards a MANDATORY upgrade. Therefore, you can
jump into any category you like, but if you do well, you may be bumped up,
but you do not have to EARN your upgrade starting from the bottom.
In addition to the complaints about racing with the Pro/Semi-Pro racers, the
Expert field consists of a different breed of racer. The original throught,
when the ATB races in Oregon abandoned NORBA, was that all Experts aspired
to be Pros, so why not get the experience of racing against them? Also, the
pro fields were so small, that often times, the last place pro would receive
a higher cash payout than the first place expert (due to politics of Pros
being ranked higher than experts), even though the first place expert may be
way faster. (Many may remember the Mudslinger several years back when this
happened.) After the decision was made to combine the pros and experts, I
realized (especially racing as an expert), that most experts are simply
working stiffs who have no life other than training to race. Pros have no
life but training to race. A simple but important difference. Since most
experts are not trying to be pros, it wouldn't make sense to force them to
race/be scored with them.
The scoring at the individual races started to group the top 10 or 15
fastest Pro/Experts and paying cash to them. The points last year were
broken out as described in that document I wrote to address the Pro and
Experts separately for the entire Series. This was a ton of work and I'm
not involved in doing it this year. The folks who are calculating points
this year opted not to do this, but the document you found was not updated
to reflect that. The decision to combine the categories was based partly on
the fact that on the women's side, separating pro and expert made little
since since the first place expert woman was faster overall and individually
more consistent than the pros. The payout, however, addressed pro and
expert separately, and did not reflect ability, but the hierarchy of the
Pro/Expert titles.
So, for simplicity of calculating and tracking points, and to make the
payouts easy for both the male and female side, the Experts (100-150?) have
been grouped with the few (10-15?) Pros.
With all that (breath), realize I am writing this based on fringe knowledge
of what the SoBe folks have planned for this season. I have not really had
much contact with them. I'm just trying to give you a little background.
Regards,
Jim Fischer
-----Original Message-----
From: tyler pinard [mailto:pin-@qwest.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 8:06 PM
To: ob-@topica.com
Cc: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] rules for sobe series points
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hello again,
I'm concerned that my previous e-mail ''points for expert senior men''
sounded too much like selfish whining. when I wrote the e-mail I was a
little frustrated which isn't my style. For that I apologize.
That aside I would like to refraise my concerns which I feel are
legitamate.
My points are
1) The OBRA racer information document ''welcome racers01.doc'' clearly
states and I quote ''Pro/Semi-Pro/Expert will be scored together for Best
All-around Rider (BAR) and will translate directly to Cat 1/2 on the road
side. (The Sobe Series has chosen to separate these catagories.''
There it is in black and white. Why is OBRA not following its own rules?
2) When I first started racing the gimmick that really hooked me was the
chance of getting points. This caused myself to turn a local racer almost
exclusively to one that drives to all ends of the state.I can vouch for a
few of my friends that they are of the same mind as myself. In a very
competitive class to begin with those were my motivation.
3) Last year the classes were kept separate and I was very happy to accept
the results. If OBRA decided to change the system why weren't we notified?
To change them now would effect my attendance, as the larger races would be
less enticing (FINALS, races in Bend).
I would sure appreciate any input from my peers as to their opinion, and
would definately like to be enlightened on the thinking of current
system(Jon, Rene,and Evelyn)
thanks,
Tyler
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001>Tyler,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001>I wrote those rules up last year as a result of the
exact argument you make right now; Should experts be scored with
Pro/Semi-Pro? If so, then why not just call it one category?
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001>With OBRA, you can call yourself whatever you want and
race whatever category you like on the ATB side. There has been nothing
set-up to critique the abilities of the various riders to make sure they are in
an appropriate category. There are no required upgrade points; only
points accumulated which count towards a MANDATORY upgrade. Therefore, you
can jump into any category you like, but if you do well, you may be bumped up,
but you do not have to EARN your upgrade starting from the bottom.
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001>In addition to the complaints about racing with the
Pro/Semi-Pro racers, the Expert field consists of a different breed of
racer. The original throught, when the ATB races in Oregon abandoned
NORBA, was that all Experts aspired to be Pros, so why not get the experience of
racing against them? Also, the pro fields were so small, that often times,
the last place pro would receive a higher cash payout than the first place
expert (due to politics of Pros being ranked higher than experts), even though
the first place expert may be way faster. (Many may remember the
Mudslinger several years back when this happened.) After the decision was
made to combine the pros and experts, I realized (especially racing as an
expert), that most experts are simply working stiffs who have no life other than
training to race. Pros have no life but training to race. A simple
but important difference. Since most experts are not trying to be pros, it
wouldn't make sense to force them to race/be scored with
them.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001>The scoring at the individual races started to group
the top 10 or 15 fastest Pro/Experts and paying cash to them. The points
last year were broken out as described in that document I wrote to address the
Pro and Experts separately for the entire Series. This was a ton of work
and I'm not involved in doing it this year. The folks who are calculating
points this year opted not to do this, but the document you found was not
updated to reflect that. The decision to combine the categories was based
partly on the fact that on the women's side, separating pro and expert made
little since since the first place expert woman was faster overall and
individually more consistent than the pros. The payout, however, addressed
pro and expert separately, and did not reflect ability, but the hierarchy of the
Pro/Expert titles.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001>So, for simplicity of calculating and tracking points,
and to make the payouts easy for both the male and female side, the Experts
(100-150?) have been grouped with the few (10-15?) Pros.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001>With all that (breath), realize I am writing this based
on fringe knowledge of what the SoBe folks have planned for this season. I
have not really had much contact with them. I'm just trying to give you a
little background.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001>Regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
class=625424314-17052001>Jim Fischer</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> tyler pinard
[mailto:pin-@qwest.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 16, 2001 8:06
PM<BR><B>To:</B> ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Cc:</B>
ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [OBRA Chat] rules for sobe series
points<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><PRE>--- Sponsor's Message --------------------------------------
Who Are the Top Dogs?
Find out about the best newsletters and discussions!
<A href="http://click.topica.com/caaaa4qaVxiDpaVB2NIb/TopDogs">http://click.topica.com/caaaa4qaVxiDpaVB2NIb/TopDogs</A>
------------------------------------------------------------</PRE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>hello again,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I'm concerned that my previous e-mail
''points for expert senior men'' sounded too much like selfish whining. when I
wrote the e-mail I was a little frustrated which isn't my style. For that I
apologize.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> That aside I would like to refraise my
concerns which I feel are legitamate.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> My points are</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1) The OBRA racer information document ''welcome
racers01.doc'' clearly states and I quote ''Pro/Semi-Pro/Expert will be scored
together for Best All-around Rider (BAR) and will translate directly to Cat 1/2
on the road side. (The Sobe Series has chosen to separate these
catagories.''</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>There it is in black and white. Why is OBRA not
following its own rules?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2) When I first started racing the gimmick that
really hooked me was the chance of getting points. This caused myself to turn a
local racer almost exclusively to one that drives to all ends of the state.I can
vouch for a few of my friends that they are of the same mind as myself. In a
very competitive class to begin with those were my motivation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>3) Last year the classes were kept separate and I
was very happy to accept the results. If OBRA decided to change the system why
weren't we notified? To change them now would effect my attendance, as the
larger races would be less enticing (FINALS, races in Bend).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I would sure appreciate any input from my
peers as to their opinion, and would definately like to be enlightened on the
thinking of current system(Jon, Rene,and Evelyn)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Tyler</FONT></DIV><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BODY></HTML>
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