OBRA: OBRA Chat: RE: Men's and Women's Maste...

Valente, Norrene

2001-05-17

Well spoken Jerry & Shanan. I know a lot of women that are 35 - 45 =

years old

who just kick my ass our there on the national circuit.

I'm sorry that the promoters have to put all the women together, but =

you

know there just isn't enough women to go around to make the women's =

fields

equal to the men's fields. And you may say that we had more women at =

the

TTT last year or at the swan Island crit. but that turn out is rare, in

general there is 1 woman rider to every 8 -10 guy riders. So splitting =

them

up makes for very lousy racing.........you don't just get a prize for

showing up - that's not racing.=20

I am so tired of hearing women complain how they can't compete with =

younger

women, pro women....or men because of this or that. Maybe if you guys =

took a

more positive approach to racing and looked at it as okay today I'm =

going to

learn something. Maybe watch and learn how the fast people take lines, =

or

when to attack or when to rest instead of saying "I have to race =

against so

-and -so or younger categories of women so I'm not going to even try." =

By

saying this you have given yourself an excuse as to why not to try.=20

Open yourself up to take the opportunity to learn from the better =

riders and

maybe with the knowledge you learn you will be beating the "younger =

women"

yourself. Often time skill beats out power.

Cheers

Norrene

----------

From: Shanan Whitlatch

Reply To: whit-@ohsu.edu

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 2:35 PM

To: Bet-@schetkynw.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Men's and Women's Masters Class? Where

should the age break be?

=20

=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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country living, including the complete line of DR=AE Power Equipment.

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I don't get it Beth..are you saying that you had more time to race =

and

train then..or now ? and really..why should that matter ? Racing =

can't

account for our life choices and circumstances..

=20

Okay..I'm 31..can't speak to how I'll feel at 35..but I know I'm much

stronger and more confident than I was at 25...so that puts the 25 =

year

old at a disadvantage ? People older than me kick my ass all the time =

?

Kathleen comes to mind. I guess the main thing I don't understand =

here is

why lifestyle is factored in.

=20

I've just got to accept that I can't train 20 hours a week because of =

how

I choose to spend my time. I could do that..if I wanted to sacrifice =

time

with my child or friends, etc., That's a choice I make. I can't take =

that

out on the racing establishment.=20

=20

Do you see my point ?=20

=20

Shanan

=20

Beth Whittaker <Bet-@schetkynw.com> 05/17 10:04 AM >>>

=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=20

I have been silent long enough and I apologize If I am beating an old

horse

to death. When I was 30 years old I was a single parent with 2 small

children. I ran races and I cycled and trained all the time. My =

energy

was

pretty high about getting up at 5:00 AM to run and cylcing at night. =

I

worked 2 jobs full time 40 hours a week and held a part time job of

catering

weddings, birthdays, rotary clubs etc in my spare time. It was

survival!!!

Now I am 35 and I have earned some very courageous badges of growing

older.

Such as cellulite, tiny spider veins and a few extra pounds. Not =

proud of

these badges just have accepted them.

Today I have 2 teenage daughters and am still happily single. I no =

longer

run because of too many injuries and it is too hard on my body today. =

I

still cycle and commute and race when I can between being a Mother. =

I own

my home now and have a fairly decent job so I don't have to work 2 =

jobs.

=20

My point.....The difference in age and character between 30 and 35 is =

like

night and day. What is fair?????

=20

Is it fair to advertise a Women's Masters Class of 35+ and 5 days =

before

the

race change it to 30+? Team Time Trial!!! Let me hear your point of

view.

=20

I am NOT whining....I only want to hear your opinions or points of =

view.

And for the 30 year olds....let me ask you this same question in 5 =

years.

=20

Beth Whittaker

Age 38

=20

=

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Shanan Whitlatch

2001-05-17

I don't get it Beth..are you saying that you had more time to race and =

train then..or now ? and really..why should that matter ? Racing can't =

account for our life choices and circumstances..

Okay..I'm 31..can't speak to how I'll feel at 35..but I know I'm much =

stronger and more confident than I was at 25...so that puts the 25 year =

old at a disadvantage ? People older than me kick my ass all the time ? =

Kathleen comes to mind. I guess the main thing I don't understand here is =

why lifestyle is factored in.

I've just got to accept that I can't train 20 hours a week because of how =

I choose to spend my time. I could do that..if I wanted to sacrifice time =

with my child or friends, etc., That's a choice I make. I can't take that =

out on the racing establishment.=20

Do you see my point ?=20

Shanan

Beth Whittaker <Bet-@schetkynw.com> 05/17 10:04 AM >>>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I have been silent long enough and I apologize If I am beating an old =

horse

to death. When I was 30 years old I was a single parent with 2 small

children. I ran races and I cycled and trained all the time. My energy =

was

pretty high about getting up at 5:00 AM to run and cylcing at night. I

worked 2 jobs full time 40 hours a week and held a part time job of =

catering

weddings, birthdays, rotary clubs etc in my spare time. It was survival!!!=

Now I am 35 and I have earned some very courageous badges of growing =

older.

Such as cellulite, tiny spider veins and a few extra pounds. Not proud of

these badges just have accepted them.

Today I have 2 teenage daughters and am still happily single. I no longer

run because of too many injuries and it is too hard on my body today. I

still cycle and commute and race when I can between being a Mother. I own

my home now and have a fairly decent job so I don't have to work 2 jobs.

My point.....The difference in age and character between 30 and 35 is like

night and day. What is fair?????

Is it fair to advertise a Women's Masters Class of 35+ and 5 days before =

the

race change it to 30+? Team Time Trial!!! Let me hear your point of =

view.

I am NOT whining....I only want to hear your opinions or points of view.

And for the 30 year olds....let me ask you this same question in 5 years.

Beth Whittaker

Age 38

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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Schreck, George

2001-05-17

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At the risk of offending everyone, I think the problem is that the promoters

are male and most of us, based on watching too much television, grew up

believing that women lie about their ages. As a result, the promoters

probably believe that all the ages are arbitrary anyway and do not matter.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: Beth Whittaker [mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:04 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Men's and Women's Masters Class? Where should the

age break be????

============================================================

LASSO YOUR BANK PRICES NOW WITH STYLESCHECKS.COM!

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============================================================

I have been silent long enough and I apologize If I am beating an old horse

to death. When I was 30 years old I was a single parent with 2 small

children. I ran races and I cycled and trained all the time. My energy was

pretty high about getting up at 5:00 AM to run and cylcing at night. I

worked 2 jobs full time 40 hours a week and held a part time job of catering

weddings, birthdays, rotary clubs etc in my spare time. It was survival!!!

Now I am 35 and I have earned some very courageous badges of growing older.

Such as cellulite, tiny spider veins and a few extra pounds. Not proud of

these badges just have accepted them.

Today I have 2 teenage daughters and am still happily single. I no longer

run because of too many injuries and it is too hard on my body today. I

still cycle and commute and race when I can between being a Mother. I own

my home now and have a fairly decent job so I don't have to work 2 jobs.

My point.....The difference in age and character between 30 and 35 is like

night and day. What is fair?????

Is it fair to advertise a Women's Masters Class of 35+ and 5 days before the

race change it to 30+? Team Time Trial!!! Let me hear your point of view.

I am NOT whining....I only want to hear your opinions or points of view.

And for the 30 year olds....let me ask you this same question in 5 years.

Beth Whittaker

Age 38

============================================================

My Topica holds the key to optimum email health. Sign up for

this free email management system today. And experience the

well-being of a well-organized inbox tomorrow.

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============================================================

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To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

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charset=3Diso-8859-1">

<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =

5.5.2653.12">

<TITLE>RE: [OBRA Chat] Men's and Women's Masters Class? Where should =

the age break be????</TITLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY>

At the risk of offending everyone, I think the =

problem is that the promoters are male and most of us, based on =

watching too much television, grew up believing that women lie about =

their ages. As a result, the promoters probably believe that all the =

ages are arbitrary anyway and do not matter. 

 &nb=

sp; &nb=

sp; George C. Schreck

 &nb=

sp; &nb=

sp; Phone: (503) 813-7211

 &nb=

sp; &nb=

sp; Fax: (503) 813-7190



 

-----Original Message-----

 From: Beth Whittaker [<A =

HREF=3D"mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com">mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com</A>]</FON=

T>

 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:04 AM

 To: ob-@topica.com

 Subject: [OBRA Chat] Men's and Women's Masters =

Class? Where should the

 age break be????



 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 LASSO YOUR BANK PRICES NOW WITH =

STYLESCHECKS.COM!

 Rodeo checks & coordinating accessories are one =

click away.

 Better Pricing - Better Styles - Custom =

Designs

 <A =

HREF=3D"http://click.topica.com/caaabP6aVxiDpaVzo6Ra/stylechecks" =

TARGET=3D"_blank">http://click.topica.com/caaabP6aVxiDpaVzo6Ra/stylechec=

ks</A>

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



I have been silent long enough and I apologize If I =

am beating an old horse

 to death. When I was 30 years old I was a =

single parent with 2 small

 children. I ran races and I cycled and trained =

all the time. My energy was

 pretty high about getting up at 5:00 AM to run and =

cylcing at night. I

 worked 2 jobs full time 40 hours a week and held a =

part time job of catering

 weddings, birthdays, rotary clubs etc in my spare =

time. It was survival!!!

 Now I am 35 and I have earned some very courageous =

badges of growing older.

 Such as cellulite, tiny spider veins and a few extra =

pounds. Not proud of

 these badges just have accepted them.



Today I have 2 teenage daughters and am still happily =

single. I no longer

 run because of too many injuries and it is too hard =

on my body today. I

 still cycle and commute and race when I can between =

being a Mother. I own

 my home now and have a fairly decent job so I don't =

have to work 2 jobs.



My point.....The difference in age and character =

between 30 and 35 is like

 night and day. What is fair?????



Is it fair to advertise a Women's Masters Class of =

35+ and 5 days before the

 race change it to 30+? Team Time =

Trial!!! Let me hear your point of view.



I am NOT whining....I only want to hear your opinions =

or points of view.

 And for the 30 year olds....let me ask you this same =

question in 5 years.



Beth Whittaker

 Age 38



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 My Topica holds the key to optimum email health. =

Sign up for

 this free email management system today. And =

experience the

 well-being of a well-organized inbox =

tomorrow.

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Matt Braun

2001-05-17

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what's wrong with finishing at the back of the pack or off the back? just =

curious......and im only 27.....(for the record).......

ciao,

mathew tristam BRAUN

sienna architecture company

503.227.5616 ext. 342

411 sw 6th ave

pdx, OR 97204

"Reid, Pam" <pam.-@intel.com> 05/17/01 10:53AM >>>

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I agree with Beth, let's get consistent on the age catagories - a HUGE

difference between 30 and 35, and how about a 50 year old racing against a

20 year old which is typical for the women racers.

We are all going to be Masters one day, please support this group if you

yourself want to continue racing (at least with your peers) as you grow

older.

Pam

-----Original Message-----

From: Beth Whittaker [mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:04 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Men's and Women's Masters Class? Where should the

age break be????

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I have been silent long enough and I apologize If I am beating an old =

horse

to death. When I was 30 years old I was a single parent with 2 small

children. I ran races and I cycled and trained all the time. My energy =

was

pretty high about getting up at 5:00 AM to run and cylcing at night. I

worked 2 jobs full time 40 hours a week and held a part time job of =

catering

weddings, birthdays, rotary clubs etc in my spare time. It was survival!!!=

Now I am 35 and I have earned some very courageous badges of growing =

older.

Such as cellulite, tiny spider veins and a few extra pounds. Not proud of

these badges just have accepted them.

Today I have 2 teenage daughters and am still happily single. I no longer

run because of too many injuries and it is too hard on my body today. I

still cycle and commute and race when I can between being a Mother. I own

my home now and have a fairly decent job so I don't have to work 2 jobs.

My point.....The difference in age and character between 30 and 35 is like

night and day. What is fair?????

Is it fair to advertise a Women's Masters Class of 35+ and 5 days before =

the

race change it to 30+? Team Time Trial!!! Let me hear your point of =

view.

I am NOT whining....I only want to hear your opinions or points of view.

And for the 30 year olds....let me ask you this same question in 5 years.

Beth Whittaker

Age 38

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

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<HTML><HEAD>

<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type=

<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>

<BODY style=3D"FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: =

2px">

<DIV>what's wrong with finishing at the back of the pack or =

off the=20

back? just curious......and im only 27.....(for the=20

record).......</DIV>

<DIV>ciao,</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>mathew tristam BRAUN sienna architecture=20

company 503.227.5616 ext. 342 411 sw 6th ave pdx, =

OR =20

97204 >>> "Reid, Pam" <pam.-@intel.com>=

=20

05/17/01 10:53AM=20

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D LASSO=20

YOUR BANK PRICES NOW WITH STYLESCHECKS.COM! Rodeo checks & =

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href=3D"http://click.topica.com/caaabP6aVxiDpaVGvLka/stylechecks">http://cl=

ick.topica.com/caaabP6aVxiDpaVGvLka/stylechecks</A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D I=20

agree with Beth, let's get consistent on the age catagories - a=20

HUGE difference between 30 and 35, and how about a 50 year old racing =

against=20

a 20 year old which is typical for the women racers. We are all =

going=20

to be Masters one day, please support this group if you yourself want =

to=20

continue racing (at least with your peers) as you=20

grow older. Pam -----Original Message----- From: =

Beth=20

Whittaker [<A=20

href=3D"mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]">mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]</A> Sen=

t:=20

Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:04 AM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: [OBRA =

Chat]=20

Men's and Women's Masters Class? Where should the age break=20

be???? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D LASSO=20

YOUR BANK PRICES NOW WITH STYLESCHECKS.COM! Rodeo checks & =

coordinating=20

accessories are one click away. Better Pricing - Better Styles - =

Custom=20

Designs <A=20

href=3D"http://click.topica.com/caaabP6aVxiDpaVzpaga/stylechecks">http://cl=

ick.topica.com/caaabP6aVxiDpaVzpaga/stylechecks</A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D I=20

have been silent long enough and I apologize If I am beating an old =

horse to=20

death. When I was 30 years old I was a single parent with 2=20

small children. I ran races and I cycled and trained all the=20

time. My energy was pretty high about getting up at 5:00 AM to =

run and=20

cylcing at night. I worked 2 jobs full time 40 hours a week and =

held a=20

part time job of catering weddings, birthdays, rotary clubs etc in my =

spare=20

time. It was survival!!! Now I am 35 and I have earned some =

very=20

courageous badges of growing older. Such as cellulite, tiny spider =

veins and=20

a few extra pounds. Not proud of these badges just have =

accepted=20

them. Today I have 2 teenage daughters and am still happily =

single. =20

I no longer run because of too many injuries and it is too hard on my =

body=20

today. I still cycle and commute and race when I can between =

being a=20

Mother. I own my home now and have a fairly decent job so I don't =

have=20

to work 2 jobs. My point.....The difference in age and character =

between=20

30 and 35 is like night and day. What is fair????? Is it =

fair to=20

advertise a Women's Masters Class of 35+ and 5 days before the race =

change it=20

to 30+? Team Time Trial!!! Let me hear your point of view. <=

BR>I=20

am NOT whining....I only want to hear your opinions or points of view. A=

nd=20

for the 30 year olds....let me ask you this same question in 5=20

years. Beth Whittaker Age=20

38 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D My=20

Topica holds the key to optimum email health. Sign up for this free =

email=20

management system today. And experience the well-being of a well-organiz=

ed=20

inbox tomorrow. <A=20

href=3D"http://click.topica.com/caaabDjaVxiDpaVzpagf/register">http://click=

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RE: Men's and Women's Masters Class? Where should

Valente, Norrene

Shanan Whitlatch

Schreck, George

Matt Braun