George de Randich

Sorry to disagree!! But nothing is too big for the son of a Nathaniel
Hawthorne College Graduate!
George de Randich,
Nathaniel Hawthorne College Class of 1969

-------Original Message-------

From: Mike Murray
Date: 05/24/06 14:56:32
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

Erik Voldengen wrote:
"The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who don't
Put them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.
I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement. But my
Numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.
It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot. Maybe if
They were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them."

Try be somewhat smaller like me. The annual numbers are 21.6 cm (8.5 in) by
26.7 cm (10.5 in) with numbers that are 10.2 cm (4 in) tall. The OBRA rules
Require them to be 20cm x 20 cm with 12cm tall numbers, I.e. The current
Numbers are actually printed a bit small and the background is only 6.7 cm
Longer and 1.6 cm taller than the can be by rules. Of course we could
Change those rules but I should point out that USCF rules also call for 20cm

X 20 cm with a 12-14 cm printed number.

Since I have spent considerable time picking and doing video and photo
Finish, particularly with the new camera this year, I would argue strongly
Against having numbers be any smaller. They are very hard to get as they
Are.

Mike Murray


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Mike Murray

Erik Voldengen wrote:
"The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who don't
put them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.
I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement. But my
numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.
It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot. Maybe if
they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them."

Try be somewhat smaller like me. The annual numbers are 21.6 cm (8.5 in) by
26.7 cm (10.5 in) with numbers that are 10.2 cm (4 in) tall. The OBRA rules
require them to be 20cm x 20 cm with 12cm tall numbers, i.e. the current
numbers are actually printed a bit small and the background is only 6.7 cm
longer and 1.6 cm taller than the can be by rules. Of course we could
change those rules but I should point out that USCF rules also call for 20cm
x 20 cm with a 12-14 cm printed number.

Since I have spent considerable time picking and doing video and photo
finish, particularly with the new camera this year, I would argue strongly
against having numbers be any smaller. They are very hard to get as they
are.

Mike Murray

Mike Murray

Was this you? This rider was in 17th place in the Cat 5 at Swan Island. It
is possible, obviously, that the number was mis-read. We don't currently
have registration, the judge's notes or the video for confirming is a bit
difficult. Number placement on this rider was excellent but we had some
technical difficulties with the new finish camera (this picture) as well as
the old regular video camera leading us to have pictures less clear than
wished for. The new camera is a work in progress and the few of us
operating it are getting better with each use but we are certainly not
experts as yet. Anyone who wants to learn how and be another camera
operator is very welcome! People should be a bit more familiar with the
older video but they still often make errors in the set up. I fell
compelled to point out that we actually have a considerable amount of
equipment and personnel at the line to pick so we are generally able to pick
through the full field. When I first started racing (I realize some of you
were not born yet) the routine would be that the first 5-10 guys would be
picked, not terribly accurately, and no one else.

The normal course of action should be that anyone who cares about their
placing should check the posted results. If you don't appear on the posted
results or have questions then go speak with the officials. No one should
speak with the officials until the results are posted because it really does
not help to have several people all asking "Did you get me?"

Just to make sure this note is like my usual posting, the applicable rule
here is:

14.5 Any protest about the order of finish must be lodged within 15 minutes
of posting. There is no fee required for a protest about the results. In
stage races or series races results may be protested until the end of sign
in of the following stage or the next race in the series. For the final race
in stage races or the last race in series events and for all other races, if
there are no protest within 15 minutes of posting the results will be
considered final.

In other words, if the results are posted (generally at the race site, and
there are no protests within 15 minutes then there really should be no
changes made even if there are errors in those results. We generally waive
this rule (and actually spend a lot of time on corrections) in a pursuit of
accuracy.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Monty Hill
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 09:14 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org; Candi Murray
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

I am a new comer to racing and would like to make it easy for all race
officials. I have been left off results because of my own failure to place
my numbers correctly. At swan island I had numbers on both sides and still
got left off results. My numbers still may have been placed incorrectly,
but I did try to find photos of racers whose numbers showed up clearly and
use this as an example. Maybe on the OBRA website we should have an example
of how to do it correctly.

At Swan Island there were a bunch of us who all finished together, I have
absolutely no idea the order in which we crossed. I just want
acknowledgment that I finished the race. Is the normal course of action for
all 30-50 of us to check with the judge 15 min after the race to make sure
we are placed? I am just curious how I can help make the process go as
planned.

Sincerely,

Monty

>>> "Candi Murray" 5/24/2006 8:55 am >>>
You didn't sign in, but you want to be placed
Your handwriting was so bad we could not read your name, but you want it
corrected. Your wrote down a different number then the one you race with,
but you want to be placed. You left off your team, but you want all your
previous results reflected for them. You sat up so you number was not
visible, but you want to be placed Your number was on the wrong side, but
you want to be placed

Can we get a little help here???????????????
Can you take some personal responsibility for your results?

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Mike Murray

Doug Evans wrote:
"Last night at PIR in the 1,2,3's there was a guy from Guinness with a
number tag behind his seat. If riders had numbers like this and a number on
their backs it seems like it may be easier to read and harder to mess up
placement. Wrinkles in his number were not going to be an issue. I don't
know if the number on his bike was big enough to show on the camera. In the
pack it was very obvious. He could also wear a vest without obscuring the
number. At PIR officials aren't trailing the pack so a number on his back
wasn't really needed."

Frame numbers, which are often placed behind the seat post because of
compact frame design, are nice because how the number is placed on the rider
is no so much of an issue but they are small so it is harder to get them to
show up on camera. They don't generally show up on plain video at all. It
is also easy for them to get obscured by overlapping riders. They would
help but the could not replace regular numbers and the would not allow use
of a vest over numbers. They would be an addition, rather than a
replacement.

OBRA used to provide frame numbers. I remember because I used to
manufacture them in my basement. The problem was that most riders wouldn't
use them (can't put my frame pump on, I forgot, etc). Officials did not find
them all that useful so they were not inclined to force use. Eventually we
decided to save the money and quit using them. Now that we have a camera
that might see them more frequently we might want to consider spending on
them. Someone would need to figure out a source or a way to make them and
calculate the cost to make or purchase them and to deliver them to riders.
Keep in mind that there are 2-3,000 OBRA members (far more than when I was
making them) so this would be a bit of a job. Any one want to step up for
this project?

Mike Murray

Mike Murray

The suggestion is against the rules:

"10.3 - No rider shall cut, fold, mutilate, trim or apply stickers to the
race number, nor shall they sell, trade or give the issued number to another
individual. Penalty or disqualification is at the discretion of the Race
Official."

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Lee Bautista
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:23 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

I've been folding the tops and bottoms in a bit before pinning (so that
there's a smaller border). It give me more room to place. I did this in
marathoning also. No complaints. I haven't been left out of a placing yet.
Use lots of pins so it's not flapping around.

Else, let me know if I shouldn't be doing that either or if that breaks the
rules. The officials do a great job with results. We ride one race. They
have to judge five or six fields.

.David.Auker.

Candi Murray wrote:

>You didn't sign in, but you want to be placed
>
>

Didn't sign in...meaning didn't pay the entry? Sounds like this rider
needs a little "vacation" (suspension)?

drewnelson

Sorry for the repeat, I missed this post. Good Idea here Heather.
Grin, Drew N
On May 24, 2006, at 11:09 AM, Heather VanValkenburg, Fdg. wrote:

> If you are without a friend or loved one (or coach- ha ha) to pin
> your number on you, use your bed pillow. Many of us are about the
> same size as a bed pillow. Stick your jersey in there, zip it up
> and start pinning. This works especially well with skin suits and
> with paper number that your get at other races. When you're done,
> you can pull some shorts onto the bottom and dance your pillow
> puppet around the house!
>
>
> -Heather VanValkenburg
> From: "Geri Bossen"
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting
> Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 10:14:14 -0700
> The numbers are big so the number on the guy on the far side can be
> figured
> out. The numbers are big so that the camera has a white field in
> which to
> read the numbers.
>
> I have pinned the numbers on CORRECTLY on little tiny junior
> girls---you
> can make them fit.
>
> You do need to start pinning the bottom front edge of the number in
> your
> armpit to place it correctly. You might not be able to use the pocket
> covered by the number. But you should be able to use the middle
> pocket even
> if you have two numbers pinned on. I have even pinned the numbers
> so you
> could reach around the number to access the pocket. It just takes
> some
> experimenting.
>
> Geri Bossen
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Erik Voldengen"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting
>
>
> >A really easy way to check if your numbers are on right is to bend
> down
> >like
> > you're on your bike, and look at yourself in the mirror.
> >
> > The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those
> who don't
> > put
> > them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.
> >
> > I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number
> placement. But
> > my
> > numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.
> >
> > It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct
> spot. Maybe
> > if
> > they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them.
> >
> > -Erik
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
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drewnelson

Don't you guy's have better things to do than bug Candy about your
15th place at PIR? If your planning on winning PIR, maybe register
next time. I agree with an earlier post. If you really need to be
seen by the officials, separate yourself from the rest, the attempt
might do you some good. Vent on Candy!! The rest of us should quit
whining, and snivviling. D.N

Candi Murray

At PIR, in the 1/2/3 field we refuse to pick riders we cannot see the
numbers on.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: Meadors, Ivan C [mailto:ivan.c.meadors@intel.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:23 AM
To: cmurray@obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Venting

WSBA is fining people for NOT using them ... ouch!!

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:21 AM
To: 'Doug Evans'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

We provided frame numbers for a number of years. Riders would not use
them
dependably.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Doug Evans
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:35 AM
To: erikv@fusium.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

Last night at PIR in the 1,2,3's there was a guy from Guinness with a
number tag behind his seat. If riders had numbers like this and a
number on their backs it seems like it may be easier to read and harder
to mess up placement. Wrinkles in his number were not going to be an
issue. I don't know if the number on his bike was big enough to show on
the camera. In the pack it was very obvious. He could also wear a vest
without obscuring the number. At PIR officials aren't trailing the pack
so a number on his back wasn't really needed.

Doug Evans
Finance Application Lead
Springbrook Software
866-777-0069 - Toll-free support
503-820-4537 - Fax
www.springbrooksoftware.com

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Erik Voldengen
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:28 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

A really easy way to check if your numbers are on right is to bend down
like
you're on your bike, and look at yourself in the mirror.

The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who don't
put
them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.

I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement.
But my
numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.

It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot.
Maybe if
they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them.

-Erik

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The information contained in this electronic message is confidential
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Springbrook
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use,
copying, disclosure or distribution of this message is strictly
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If you are not an intended recipient of this message, please contact the
sender by reply e-mail and destroy all soft and hard copies of the
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Long, Steve

Wait a minute, are we talking about Rocket Science here or number
placement??? :)

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of KG
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:24 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

How 'bout setting up a window display torso at races to demonstrate that
all elusive sweet spot number location. Shows what side number should
be on too.

(Had my number on upside-down my first race.)

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Robert Nobles

The front bottom corner goes in the armpit (front bottom of side jersey panel)
The top rear corner goes just above the seam between the side and middle pocket.
The other corners are just placed smooth and tight from there.

Geri sent out a similar recommendation when I first started racing and I have not had a problem since. Usually this leaves all the pockets accessible depending on your jersey size.

Geri Bossen wrote:
The numbers are big so the number on the guy on the far side can be figured
out. The numbers are big so that the camera has a white field in which to
read the numbers.

I have pinned the numbers on CORRECTLY on little tiny junior girls---you
can make them fit.

You do need to start pinning the bottom front edge of the number in your
armpit to place it correctly. You might not be able to use the pocket
covered by the number. But you should be able to use the middle pocket even
if you have two numbers pinned on. I have even pinned the numbers so you
could reach around the number to access the pocket. It just takes some
experimenting.

Geri Bossen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Voldengen"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

>A really easy way to check if your numbers are on right is to bend down
>like
> you're on your bike, and look at yourself in the mirror.
>
> The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who don't
> put
> them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.
>
> I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement. But
> my
> numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.
>
> It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot. Maybe
> if
> they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them.
>
> -Erik
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
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Robert W Nobles
rwnobles@yahoo.com

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---------------------------------
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KG

How 'bout setting up a window display torso at races to demonstrate that all elusive sweet spot number location. Shows what side number should be on too.

(Had my number on upside-down my first race.)

Candi Murray

We provided frame numbers for a number of years. Riders would not use them
dependably.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Doug Evans
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:35 AM
To: erikv@fusium.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

Last night at PIR in the 1,2,3's there was a guy from Guinness with a
number tag behind his seat. If riders had numbers like this and a
number on their backs it seems like it may be easier to read and harder
to mess up placement. Wrinkles in his number were not going to be an
issue. I don't know if the number on his bike was big enough to show on
the camera. In the pack it was very obvious. He could also wear a vest
without obscuring the number. At PIR officials aren't trailing the pack
so a number on his back wasn't really needed.

Doug Evans
Finance Application Lead
Springbrook Software
866-777-0069 - Toll-free support
503-820-4537 - Fax
www.springbrooksoftware.com

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Erik Voldengen
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:28 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

A really easy way to check if your numbers are on right is to bend down
like
you're on your bike, and look at yourself in the mirror.

The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who don't
put
them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.

I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement.
But my
numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.

It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot.
Maybe if
they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them.

-Erik

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Contact Springbrook for information about the newly released postal address
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The information contained in this electronic message is confidential
information intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s) and
contains confidential and/or privileged information belonging to Springbrook
Software, Inc. or its customers or partners. Any unauthorized review, use,
copying, disclosure or distribution of this message is strictly prohibited.
If you are not an intended recipient of this message, please contact the
sender by reply e-mail and destroy all soft and hard copies of the message
and any attachments. Thank you.

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Thomas Hoffman

I herby nominate Geri as the official VP in Charge of Number Placement and
OBRA team Mom.

If you don't get you number on correctly, she will nullify your results, and
send you to your room.

:-)

Tom

XX-----Original Message-----
XXFrom: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf
XXOf Geri Bossen
XXSent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:14 AM
XXTo: obra@list.obra.org
XXSubject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting
XX
XXThe numbers are big so the number on the guy on the far side can be
figured
XXout. The numbers are big so that the camera has a white field in which to
XXread the numbers.
XX
XXI have pinned the numbers on CORRECTLY on little tiny junior girls---you
XXcan make them fit.
XX
XXYou do need to start pinning the bottom front edge of the number in your
XXarmpit to place it correctly. You might not be able to use the pocket
XXcovered by the number. But you should be able to use the middle pocket
even
XXif you have two numbers pinned on. I have even pinned the numbers so you
XXcould reach around the number to access the pocket. It just takes some
XXexperimenting.
XX
XXGeri Bossen
XX
XX
XX----- Original Message -----
XXFrom: "Erik Voldengen"
XXTo:
XXSent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:27 AM
XXSubject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting
XX
XX
XX>A really easy way to check if your numbers are on right is to bend down
XX>like
XX> you're on your bike, and look at yourself in the mirror.
XX>
XX> The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who don't
XX> put
XX> them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.
XX>
XX> I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement.
But
XX> my
XX> numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.
XX>
XX> It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot.
Maybe
XX> if
XX> they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them.
XX>
XX> -Erik
XX>
XX>
XX> _______________________________________________
XX> OBRA mailing list
XX> obra@list.obra.org
XX> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
XX> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
XX>
XX_______________________________________________
XXOBRA mailing list
XXobra@list.obra.org
XXhttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
XXUnsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Heather VanValkenburg, Fdg.

Lisa Winchester

Hey, here's a novel idea if you're concerned that your # is on wrong, after you pin your # on, walk up to the official and ask if your # is visible enough.

Candi & all the officials have a hard enough job. Don't bitch about something that is clearly your responsibility.

Subject: Venting
Date: 05/24/2006 08:55 AM
From: Candi Murray
You didn't sign in, but you want to be placed
Your handwriting was so bad we could not read your name, but you want it corrected.
Your wrote down a different number then the one you race with, but you want to be placed.
You left off your team, but you want all your previous results reflected for them.
You sat up so you number was not visible, but you want to be placed
Your number was on the wrong side, but you want to be placed

Can we get a little help here???????????????
Can you take some personal responsibility for your results?

Erik Voldengen

I understand the numbers need to be readable - that's the whole point.

Flame away, but the unfolded, unmodified size is nearly unmanageable from a
racer point of view. Access to all three pockets can be pretty important in
a road race.

Here's how I pinned mine on for PIR last night. When I'm down in the drops,
they are horizontal. I think this jersey's size is XL, so a lot of racers
have less room to work with. This is the best I could do to keep the numbers
off my sleeve and still be able to access the pockets:

http://www.erikv.com/images/usr/bigNumbers.jpg

-Erik

> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Geri Bossen
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:14 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting
>
> The numbers are big so the number on the guy on the far side can be
> figured
> out. The numbers are big so that the camera has a white field in which to
> read the numbers.
>
> I have pinned the numbers on CORRECTLY on little tiny junior girls---you
> can make them fit.
>
> You do need to start pinning the bottom front edge of the number in your
> armpit to place it correctly. You might not be able to use the pocket
> covered by the number. But you should be able to use the middle pocket
> even
> if you have two numbers pinned on. I have even pinned the numbers so you
> could reach around the number to access the pocket. It just takes some
> experimenting.
>
> Geri Bossen
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Erik Voldengen"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting
>
>
> >A really easy way to check if your numbers are on right is to bend down
> >like
> > you're on your bike, and look at yourself in the mirror.
> >
> > The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who don't
> > put
> > them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.
> >
> > I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement.
> But
> > my
> > numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.
> >
> > It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot.
> Maybe
> > if
> > they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them.
> >
> > -Erik
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Lee Bautista

great idea. there's plenty of car windows to check that winning "pose"
to check your pinning job.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Erik Voldengen
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:28 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

A really easy way to check if your numbers are on right is to bend down
like
you're on your bike, and look at yourself in the mirror.

The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who don't
put
them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.

I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement.
But my
numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.

It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot.
Maybe if
they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them.

-Erik

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Lee Bautista

I've been folding the tops and bottoms in a bit before pinning (so that
there's a smaller border). It give me more room to place. I did this in
marathoning also. No complaints. I haven't been left out of a placing
yet. Use lots of pins so it's not flapping around.

Else, let me know if I shouldn't be doing that either or if that breaks
the rules. The officials do a great job with results. We ride one race.
They have to judge five or six fields.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Geri Bossen
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:14 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

The numbers are big so the number on the guy on the far side can be
figured
out. The numbers are big so that the camera has a white field in which
to
read the numbers.

I have pinned the numbers on CORRECTLY on little tiny junior
girls---you
can make them fit.

You do need to start pinning the bottom front edge of the number in your

armpit to place it correctly. You might not be able to use the pocket
covered by the number. But you should be able to use the middle pocket
even
if you have two numbers pinned on. I have even pinned the numbers so
you
could reach around the number to access the pocket. It just takes some
experimenting.

Geri Bossen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Voldengen"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

>A really easy way to check if your numbers are on right is to bend down

>like
> you're on your bike, and look at yourself in the mirror.
>
> The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who
don't
> put
> them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.
>
> I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement.
But
> my
> numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.
>
> It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot.
Maybe
> if
> they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them.
>
> -Erik
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Geri Bossen

The numbers are big so the number on the guy on the far side can be figured
out. The numbers are big so that the camera has a white field in which to
read the numbers.

I have pinned the numbers on CORRECTLY on little tiny junior girls---you
can make them fit.

You do need to start pinning the bottom front edge of the number in your
armpit to place it correctly. You might not be able to use the pocket
covered by the number. But you should be able to use the middle pocket even
if you have two numbers pinned on. I have even pinned the numbers so you
could reach around the number to access the pocket. It just takes some
experimenting.

Geri Bossen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Voldengen"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

>A really easy way to check if your numbers are on right is to bend down
>like
> you're on your bike, and look at yourself in the mirror.
>
> The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who don't
> put
> them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.
>
> I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement. But
> my
> numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.
>
> It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot. Maybe
> if
> they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them.
>
> -Erik
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Doug Evans

Last night at PIR in the 1,2,3's there was a guy from Guinness with a
number tag behind his seat. If riders had numbers like this and a
number on their backs it seems like it may be easier to read and harder
to mess up placement. Wrinkles in his number were not going to be an
issue. I don't know if the number on his bike was big enough to show on
the camera. In the pack it was very obvious. He could also wear a vest
without obscuring the number. At PIR officials aren't trailing the pack
so a number on his back wasn't really needed.

Doug Evans
Finance Application Lead
Springbrook Software
866-777-0069 - Toll-free support
503-820-4537 - Fax
www.springbrooksoftware.com

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Erik Voldengen
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:28 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

A really easy way to check if your numbers are on right is to bend down
like
you're on your bike, and look at yourself in the mirror.

The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who don't
put
them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.

I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement.
But my
numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.

It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot.
Maybe if
they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them.

-Erik

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Jens Heycke

It's from the Mike and Candi of NorCal racing, not from OBRA, but here are some
good pics about number placement:

http://www.sonic.net/~caseyk/badnumbers.html

-jens

----- Original Message -----
From: Monty Hill
To: obra@list.obra.org ; Candi Murray
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venting

I am a new comer to racing and would like to make it easy for all race
officials. I have been left off results because of my own failure to
place my numbers correctly. At swan island I had numbers on both sides
and still got left off results. My numbers still may have been placed
incorrectly, but I did try to find photos of racers whose numbers showed
up clearly and use this as an example. Maybe on the OBRA website we
should have an example of how to do it correctly.

At Swan Island there were a bunch of us who all finished together, I
have absolutely no idea the order in which we crossed. I just want
acknowledgment that I finished the race. Is the normal course of action
for all 30-50 of us to check with the judge 15 min after the race to
make sure we are placed? I am just curious how I can help make the
process go as planned.

Sincerely,

Monty

>>> "Candi Murray" 5/24/2006 8:55 am >>>
You didn't sign in, but you want to be placed
Your handwriting was so bad we could not read your name, but you want
it
corrected.
Your wrote down a different number then the one you race with, but you
want
to be placed.
You left off your team, but you want all your previous results
reflected for
them.
You sat up so you number was not visible, but you want to be placed
Your number was on the wrong side, but you want to be placed

Can we get a little help here???????????????
Can you take some personal responsibility for your results?

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Erik Voldengen

A really easy way to check if your numbers are on right is to bend down like
you're on your bike, and look at yourself in the mirror.

The race numbers are TOO BIG, probably to compensate for those who don't put
them on right. They are really hard to get in the right place.

I am 6'5" tall. I have a lot of "real estate" for number placement. But my
numbers still pin on in the armpit and overlap a side jersey pocket.

It seems to me the numbers are too big to put in the correct spot. Maybe if
they were smaller, it'd be more intuitive as to where to stick them.

-Erik

Monty Hill

I am a new comer to racing and would like to make it easy for all race
officials. I have been left off results because of my own failure to
place my numbers correctly. At swan island I had numbers on both sides
and still got left off results. My numbers still may have been placed
incorrectly, but I did try to find photos of racers whose numbers showed
up clearly and use this as an example. Maybe on the OBRA website we
should have an example of how to do it correctly.

At Swan Island there were a bunch of us who all finished together, I
have absolutely no idea the order in which we crossed. I just want
acknowledgment that I finished the race. Is the normal course of action
for all 30-50 of us to check with the judge 15 min after the race to
make sure we are placed? I am just curious how I can help make the
process go as planned.

Sincerely,

Monty

>>> "Candi Murray" 5/24/2006 8:55 am >>>
You didn't sign in, but you want to be placed
Your handwriting was so bad we could not read your name, but you want
it
corrected.
Your wrote down a different number then the one you race with, but you
want
to be placed.
You left off your team, but you want all your previous results
reflected for
them.
You sat up so you number was not visible, but you want to be placed
Your number was on the wrong side, but you want to be placed

Can we get a little help here???????????????
Can you take some personal responsibility for your results?

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Candi Murray

You didn't sign in, but you want to be placed
Your handwriting was so bad we could not read your name, but you want it
corrected.
Your wrote down a different number then the one you race with, but you want
to be placed.
You left off your team, but you want all your previous results reflected for
them.
You sat up so you number was not visible, but you want to be placed
Your number was on the wrong side, but you want to be placed

Can we get a little help here???????????????
Can you take some personal responsibility for your results?