John Parsons

Territorial Road a state highway. It is Hwy no. 200 in ODOT's internal
road numbering system. At the section in question, it is classed as a
"Rural Major Collector."

>>> "Doug Sears" 6/2/2006 8:49:31 AM >>>
Is this a state highway, or county road? It sounds like letters to
the
proper authority are in order. Maybe this horrible event can lead to
improvements to the road, if enough people write letters to newspapers
and
to the state or county road department. Including racers and tourists,
there are lots of cyclists who use this road and have a vital interest
in
getting it widened. The threat of having the speed limit lowered to 45

would get motorists in favor of widening it, too.

--Doug Sears

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Stahl"
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 2:44 PM

Both lanes are marked with solid white "no passing" lines at all
points
between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road. The lane width is about as
narrow
as it gets for a paved 2-lane road. There is zero shoulder -- the
white
line is exactly on the edge of the pavement. The paved edge drops off
into
a steep ditch immediately -- zero room for going off to the right
unless
you want to take a header into the ditch.

A log truck cannot pass bicyclists and stay within its lane safely.
There
simply is not physical room to do so. The only way a safe pass can be
made
is by going into the opposite lane to make the pass. The truck either
has
to slow down to the bicyclist's speed and wait until the on-coming lane
is
free of traffic or have sufficient sight distance in advance as it
comes
upon the cyclists to retain speed as it goes into the on-coming lane
to
make the pass. There are also several blind corners along this
stretch
that if approached by a truck at greater than about 35 mph could put
the
truck right on top of the cyclists without sufficient time for the
driver
to react. I don't know if such was the case in this instance.

In sum, this stretch of state highway is an inherently dangerous place.
It
is simply inappropriate for speeds greater than 45 mph -- yet
virtually
everyone drives 55+. There are no speed limit markings, except
advisory
ones for the blind corners.

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Randy Dreiling

Not sure the same people live there anymore...it was a
couple years back...really fun event NOT...15 people
from Chicago on a road tour from Oakridge to the Coast
over 4 days and some meth head is trying to run them
down and every other word between the riders and the
meth heads was FU ...one of the riders went after the
meth heads, but he ran in the house...the police did a
great job in this case I have to say and it was Lane
Co not OSP that handled it.

--- Edward Kendrick Sr
wrote:

> Well maybe I was wrong and fewer that 99.9% are
> generally law abiding? I hope they keep those folks
> out of the feed zones.
>
> Randy Dreiling wrote: I watched
> the news last night and it was nice to see
> the bike riders view too.
>
> I am confused I always thought that was a Lane
> County
> road, so I was surprised OSP were handling the case.
>
> Sadly this is not uncommon on this road I was saging
> a
> group for my tour company and the poeple that lived
> right accross from King Estates tried to run down
> some
> of my riders...we had a very heated exchange and the
> police came and arrested two of the people...they
> were
> meth heads with warrants.
>
> I am affraid the threat of lower the speed limit to
> 45
> would backfire and not help our cause.
>
> Take Care all
>
> --- Andy Stahl wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> State highway.
>
> At 08:49 AM 6/2/2006, Doug Sears wrote:
> Is this a state highway, orcounty road? It sounds
> like letters to the
> proper authority are in order. Maybe this horrible
> event can lead to
> improvements to the road, if enough people write
> letters to newspapersand
> to the state or county road department. Including
> racers andtourists,
> there are lots of cyclists who use this road and
> have
> a vital interestin
> getting it widened. The threat of having the speed
> limit lowered to 45
> would get motorists in favor of widening it, too.
>
> --Doug Sears
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Stahl"
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 2:44 PM
>
> Both lanes are marked with solid white "no passing"
> lines atall points
> between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road. The lane
> width is about asnarrow
> as it gets for a paved 2-lane road. There is zero
> shoulder -- thewhite
> line is exactly on the edge of the pavement. The
> paved edge dropsoff into
> a steep ditch immediately -- zero room for going off
> to the rightunless
> you want to take a header into the ditch.
>
> A log truck cannot pass bicyclists and stay within
> its
> lane safely. There
> simply is not physical room to do so. The only way a
> safe pass canbe made
> is by going into the opposite lane to make the pass.
>
> The truckeither has
> to slow down to the bicyclist's speed and wait until
> the on-coming laneis
> free of traffic or have sufficient sight distance in
> advance as itcomes
> upon the cyclists to retain speed as it goes into
> the
> on-cominglane to
> make the pass. There are also several blind corners
> along thisstretch
> that if approached by a truck at greater than about
> 35
> mph could putthe
> truck right on top of the cyclists without
> sufficient
> time for thedriver
> to react. I don't know if such was the case in
> thisinstance.
>
> In sum, this stretch of state highway is an
> inherently
> dangerousplace. It
> is simply inappropriate for speeds greater than 45
> mph
> -- yetvirtually
> everyone drives 55+. There are no speed limit
> markings, exceptadvisory
> ones for the blind corners.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/354 -
> Release Date:6/1/2006
>
> ________________________________________________
> Andy Stahl, Executive Director
> Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
> P.O. Box 11615
> Eugene, OR 97440
> (541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
> http://www.fseee.org
> ________________________________________________>
> _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
> Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
> Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of
> Commerce
> www.oakridgechamber.com
> Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
> Other Oregon Adventures Events
> Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
> Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
> www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download
> flyers
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
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> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a chatter box. Enjoy free PC-to-PC calls with
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.>
_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
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>

Randy Dreiling
Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
www.oakridgechamber.com
Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
Other Oregon Adventures Events
Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Edward Kendrick Sr

Well maybe I was wrong and fewer that 99.9% are generally law abiding? I hope they keep those folks out of the feed zones.

Randy Dreiling wrote: I watched the news last night and it was nice to see
the bike riders view too.

I am confused I always thought that was a Lane County
road, so I was surprised OSP were handling the case.

Sadly this is not uncommon on this road I was saging a
group for my tour company and the poeple that lived
right accross from King Estates tried to run down some
of my riders...we had a very heated exchange and the
police came and arrested two of the people...they were
meth heads with warrants.

I am affraid the threat of lower the speed limit to 45
would backfire and not help our cause.

Take Care all

--- Andy Stahl wrote:

---------------------------------
State highway.

At 08:49 AM 6/2/2006, Doug Sears wrote:
Is this a state highway, orcounty road? It sounds
like letters to the
proper authority are in order. Maybe this horrible
event can lead to
improvements to the road, if enough people write
letters to newspapersand
to the state or county road department. Including
racers andtourists,
there are lots of cyclists who use this road and have
a vital interestin
getting it widened. The threat of having the speed
limit lowered to 45
would get motorists in favor of widening it, too.

--Doug Sears

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Stahl"
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 2:44 PM

Both lanes are marked with solid white "no passing"
lines atall points
between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road. The lane
width is about asnarrow
as it gets for a paved 2-lane road. There is zero
shoulder -- thewhite
line is exactly on the edge of the pavement. The
paved edge dropsoff into
a steep ditch immediately -- zero room for going off
to the rightunless
you want to take a header into the ditch.

A log truck cannot pass bicyclists and stay within its
lane safely. There
simply is not physical room to do so. The only way a
safe pass canbe made
is by going into the opposite lane to make the pass.
The truckeither has
to slow down to the bicyclist's speed and wait until
the on-coming laneis
free of traffic or have sufficient sight distance in
advance as itcomes
upon the cyclists to retain speed as it goes into the
on-cominglane to
make the pass. There are also several blind corners
along thisstretch
that if approached by a truck at greater than about 35
mph could putthe
truck right on top of the cyclists without sufficient
time for thedriver
to react. I don't know if such was the case in
thisinstance.

In sum, this stretch of state highway is an inherently
dangerousplace. It
is simply inappropriate for speeds greater than 45 mph
-- yetvirtually
everyone drives 55+. There are no speed limit
markings, exceptadvisory
ones for the blind corners.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/354 -
Release Date:6/1/2006

________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org
________________________________________________>
_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Randy Dreiling
Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
www.oakridgechamber.com
Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
Other Oregon Adventures Events
Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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_______________________________________________
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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
Be a chatter box. Enjoy free PC-to-PC calls with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

Randy Dreiling

I watched the news last night and it was nice to see
the bike riders view too.

I am confused I always thought that was a Lane County
road, so I was surprised OSP were handling the case.

Sadly this is not uncommon on this road I was saging a
group for my tour company and the poeple that lived
right accross from King Estates tried to run down some
of my riders...we had a very heated exchange and the
police came and arrested two of the people...they were
meth heads with warrants.

I am affraid the threat of lower the speed limit to 45
would backfire and not help our cause.

Take Care all

--- Andy Stahl wrote:

---------------------------------
State highway.

At 08:49 AM 6/2/2006, Doug Sears wrote:
Is this a state highway, orcounty road? It sounds
like letters to the
proper authority are in order. Maybe this horrible
event can lead to
improvements to the road, if enough people write
letters to newspapersand
to the state or county road department. Including
racers andtourists,
there are lots of cyclists who use this road and have
a vital interestin
getting it widened. The threat of having the speed
limit lowered to 45
would get motorists in favor of widening it, too.

--Doug Sears

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Stahl"
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 2:44 PM

Both lanes are marked with solid white "no passing"
lines atall points
between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road. The lane
width is about asnarrow
as it gets for a paved 2-lane road. There is zero
shoulder -- thewhite
line is exactly on the edge of the pavement. The
paved edge dropsoff into
a steep ditch immediately -- zero room for going off
to the rightunless
you want to take a header into the ditch.

A log truck cannot pass bicyclists and stay within its
lane safely. There
simply is not physical room to do so. The only way a
safe pass canbe made
is by going into the opposite lane to make the pass.
The truckeither has
to slow down to the bicyclist's speed and wait until
the on-coming laneis
free of traffic or have sufficient sight distance in
advance as itcomes
upon the cyclists to retain speed as it goes into the
on-cominglane to
make the pass. There are also several blind corners
along thisstretch
that if approached by a truck at greater than about 35
mph could putthe
truck right on top of the cyclists without sufficient
time for thedriver
to react. I don't know if such was the case in
thisinstance.

In sum, this stretch of state highway is an inherently
dangerousplace. It
is simply inappropriate for speeds greater than 45 mph
-- yetvirtually
everyone drives 55+. There are no speed limit
markings, exceptadvisory
ones for the blind corners.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/354 -
Release Date:6/1/2006

________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org
________________________________________________>
_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Randy Dreiling
Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
www.oakridgechamber.com
Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
Other Oregon Adventures Events
Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Andy Stahl

State highway.


At 08:49 AM 6/2/2006, Doug Sears wrote:

Is this a state highway, or
county road?  It sounds like letters to the

proper authority are in order. Maybe this horrible event can lead to

improvements to the road, if enough people write letters to newspapers
and

to the state or county road department. Including racers and
tourists,

there are lots of cyclists who use this road and have a vital interest
in

getting it widened. The threat of having the speed limit lowered to 45


would get motorists in favor of widening it, too.


  --Doug Sears


----- Original Message -----

From: "Andy Stahl" <andy@fseee.org>

Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 2:44 PM


Both lanes are marked with solid white "no passing" lines at
all points

between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.  The lane width is about as
narrow

as it gets for a paved 2-lane road.  There is zero shoulder -- the
white

line is exactly on the edge of the pavement.  The paved edge drops
off into

a steep ditch immediately -- zero room for going off to the right
unless

you want to take a header into the ditch.


A log truck cannot pass bicyclists and stay within its lane safely. 
There

simply is not physical room to do so.  The only way a safe pass can
be made

is by going into the opposite lane to make the pass.  The truck
either has

to slow down to the bicyclist's speed and wait until the on-coming lane
is

free of traffic or have sufficient sight distance in advance as it
comes

upon the cyclists  to retain speed as it goes into the on-coming
lane to

make the pass.  There are also several blind corners along this
stretch

that if approached by a truck at greater than about 35 mph could put
the

truck right on top of the cyclists without sufficient time for the
driver

to react.  I don't know if such was the case in this
instance.


In sum, this stretch of state highway is an inherently dangerous
place.  It

is simply inappropriate for speeds greater than 45 mph -- yet
virtually

everyone drives 55+.  There are no speed limit markings, except
advisory

ones for the blind corners.





_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org


http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org




--

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/354 - Release Date:
6/1/2006

________________________________________________

Andy Stahl, Executive Director

Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics

P.O. Box 11615

Eugene, OR  97440

(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)

http://www.fseee.org

________________________________________________

Doug Sears

Is this a state highway, or county road? It sounds like letters to the
proper authority are in order. Maybe this horrible event can lead to
improvements to the road, if enough people write letters to newspapers and
to the state or county road department. Including racers and tourists,
there are lots of cyclists who use this road and have a vital interest in
getting it widened. The threat of having the speed limit lowered to 45
would get motorists in favor of widening it, too.

--Doug Sears

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Stahl"
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 2:44 PM

Both lanes are marked with solid white "no passing" lines at all points
between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road. The lane width is about as narrow
as it gets for a paved 2-lane road. There is zero shoulder -- the white
line is exactly on the edge of the pavement. The paved edge drops off into
a steep ditch immediately -- zero room for going off to the right unless
you want to take a header into the ditch.

A log truck cannot pass bicyclists and stay within its lane safely. There
simply is not physical room to do so. The only way a safe pass can be made
is by going into the opposite lane to make the pass. The truck either has
to slow down to the bicyclist's speed and wait until the on-coming lane is
free of traffic or have sufficient sight distance in advance as it comes
upon the cyclists to retain speed as it goes into the on-coming lane to
make the pass. There are also several blind corners along this stretch
that if approached by a truck at greater than about 35 mph could put the
truck right on top of the cyclists without sufficient time for the driver
to react. I don't know if such was the case in this instance.

In sum, this stretch of state highway is an inherently dangerous place. It
is simply inappropriate for speeds greater than 45 mph -- yet virtually
everyone drives 55+. There are no speed limit markings, except advisory
ones for the blind corners.

Dave German

According to the Oregon Bar TV show I just saw with the BTA and Bike Lawyer as guests, it is within the OR law for a car to cross into the oncoming lane, even with a double yellow line, to pass a bike. Check it with the BTA or Bike Law dude.
----- Original Message -----
From: micros8391@aol.com
To: andy@fseee.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

Andy,

Maybe you could answer these questions. Was this at an area where
passing in the oncoming lane was legal? I do not think so, but I am not
sure. How wide is the lane where the accident occurred? How wide is the
log truck? Is there any way the truck could pass the riders legally
(staying in its own lane), and give them enough room (at least their
width plus 18" or more)? These are the questions I think are important.
The stories in the paper and on the news seem to blame the cyclists for
this terrible tragedy. I have trouble believing that is true. Reports
from someone on the ride indicated that the initial crash was related
to the truck being so close to them.

Mike Rosenberg

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Stahl >
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:15:39 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

I ride from 1 mile south of Gillespie Corners to Eugene and back
several times a week and live 1/2 mile from yesterday's fatality. I
also farm along Territorial (up Jackson-Marlow Road) and regularly take
my tractor along Territorial, as do all the other farmers in the area.
Tractors go about the same speed as bicycles, and it's hair-raising to
drive a tractor along Territorial. The difference in safety between
Territorial and Lorane Hwy (which has good shoulders) could not be more
dramatic. I have never seen an accident along Lorane Hwy. But I see
them monthly, at least, along Territorial. Yes, cars do go faster along
Lorane Hwy. But the trade-off is well worth it from a bicyclist's
perspective. Talk to the Lorane fire dept. volunteers, as I do, and
you'll know that Territorial Rd. is notoriously more dangerous than
Lorane Hwy.

No one drives with the intention of killing people. But your own
incident illustrates just how bad Territorial Road's engineering is --
there is no reason whatsoever that you, the log truck driver, or the
pick-up should have had to be in the position you were all in. And
there's no justification for driving any motorized vehicle so fast that
only emergency action prevents a rear-end collision with a bicyclist.

At 09:35 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!

just to be balanced:
a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the
twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind me
for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the
top. just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill
at us both. he locked 'em up (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me.
i jumped off my bike after clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to
him. no doubt, his action saved me. those guys aren't out there to kill
people!!

--------
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [ mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On Behalf Of Andy Stahl
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is.
Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the
first time ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be added
to the paint?

The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I see them
almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on a bike.
Even apart from specific criminality in this instance, another real
crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial Rd.
between Crow and Lorane. Statistically, this has to be one of the most
dangerous roads in Lane County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a
monthly basis between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.

Andy

At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor and
friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log truck on
Wednesday, May 31. This is a regular group ride that I normally attend,
but missed due to other commitments. The news reports conflict somewhat
with what I have gotten from a rider who was there. It appears that the
truck got very close to the group of four riders on a narrow highway,
one of the riders went down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe
a freshly-painted line. Jane was at the back and apparently, in
avoiding fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and was killed
instantly. Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses, because she was
at the back. We are all trying to get as many facts as we can, so media
can be correctly informed and possible criminal charges pursued.

Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.

Steve Scarich
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________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org
________________________________________________
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/354 - Release Date:
6/1/2006
________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org
________________________________________________

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Ron and Dorothy Strasser

Again as it has been said before... it is best to make a positive out of any interaction with auto drivers. It may help a fellow cyclist later that day or whenever. I know I have let drivers know my real feelings many times, but have also offered thanks even more. I know that when I have let a driver have it...most of the results were a negative. So many drivers are just so very far removed from the work cyclists put in going up a grade or dealing with weather/road conditions that they don't have a clue as to what it is like to ride. Years, or a lifetime of just getting around in a car is almost like never coming out of your house... you just don't have a clue what it takes to deal with heat or cold.... cuz my house and car are climate controlled with way cool sound and video feed.... isn't that what life is all about? Each individual (driver or rider) make decisions every day that impact themselves and others. There are courteous hordes of both... and of course the jerks.
I am just sad for her family, friends and even the driver. S__t... imagine if it was you involved.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Long, Steve
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

Boy, you are not lying about that. I have had people intentionally buzz me more times than I care to discuss and it is almost always the case that they have an attitude about bikers, bikes or something and they are looking to mess up your .....

Sometimes, they honestly don't have a clue about what they did but they usually know just what they are doing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:19 AM
To: GEORGE SCHRECK; Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com; andy@fseee.org; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

George, I love you but I have to disagree, I was run off the road at the coast on Saturday by a dump truck, no cars coming in the opposite direction, no reason to do what he did. I ran into a big dirt bank and tore my fenders all up, so needless to say I wasn't happy. I could have just as well ended up dead under the wheels of this a--holes truck. Well a few miles down the road guess who was pulled over at a mini-mart, we had a little chat and all that came out of his mouth was faggot biker, several times. So moral of the story is there is plenty of a--hole truck drivers, bus drivers etc. that go out of there way to mess up your day. Stay safe everyone,.
Jeff
From: GEORGE SCHRECK
To: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com ; andy@fseee.org ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

At any speed, going under the wheels of a large truck will kill you.

The sad fact is that any mishap on your bike that causes you to swerve into traffic can kill you. Unfortunately, in this instance, it happened just as a truck was going by. I have seen a number of training ride crashes, and people were just lucky enough to have no vehicles in close proximity when they went down. I do not think anyone who drives a truck as a professional is reckless. Professional truck drivers of all people understand the risks and consequences.

----Original Message----
From: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com
Date: 06/01/2006 9:35 AM
To: "Andy Stahl",
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!

just to be balanced:
a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind me for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the top. just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill at us both. he locked 'em up (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me. i jumped off my bike after clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to him. no doubt, his action saved me. those guys aren't out there to kill people!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Andy Stahl
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is. Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the first time ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be added to the paint?

The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I see them almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on a bike. Even apart from specific criminality in this instance, another real crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial Rd. between Crow and Lorane. Statistically, this has to be one of the most dangerous roads in Lane County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a monthly basis between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.

Andy

At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor and friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log truck on Wednesday, May 31. This is a regular group ride that I normally attend, but missed due to other commitments. The news reports conflict somewhat with what I have gotten from a rider who was there. It appears that the truck got very close to the group of four riders on a narrow highway, one of the riders went down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe a freshly-painted line. Jane was at the back and apparently, in avoiding fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and was killed instantly. Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses, because she was at the back. We are all trying to get as many facts as we can, so media can be correctly informed and possible criminal charges pursued.

Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.

Steve Scarich
_______________________________________________
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________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org
________________________________________________

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Andy Stahl

Both lanes are marked with solid white "no
passing" lines at all points between Gillespie Corners and Hamm
Road.  The lane width is about as narrow as it gets for a paved
2-lane road.  There is zero shoulder -- the white line is exactly on
the edge of the pavement.  The paved edge drops off into a steep
ditch immediately -- zero room for going off to the right unless you want
to take a header into the ditch.


A log truck cannot pass bicyclists and stay within its lane
safely.  There simply is not physical room to do so.  The only
way a safe pass can be made is by going into the opposite lane to make
the pass.  The truck either has to slow down to the bicyclist's
speed and wait until the on-coming lane is free of traffic or have
sufficient sight distance in advance as it comes upon the cyclists 
to retain speed as it goes into the on-coming lane to make the
pass.  There are also several blind corners along this stretch that
if approached by a truck at greater than about 35 mph could put the truck
right on top of the cyclists without sufficient time for the driver to
react.  I don't know if such was the case in this instance.


In sum, this stretch of state highway is an inherently dangerous
place.  It is simply inappropriate for speeds greater than 45 mph --
yet virtually everyone drives 55+.  There are no speed limit
markings, except advisory ones for the blind corners.


At 11:20 AM 6/1/2006, micros8391@aol.com wrote:

Andy,


Maybe you could answer these questions. Was this at an area where passing
in the oncoming lane was legal? I do not think so, but I am not sure. How
wide is the lane where the accident occurred? How wide is the log truck?
Is there any way the truck could pass the riders legally (staying in its
own lane), and give them enough room (at least their width plus 18"
or more)? These are the questions I think are important. The stories in
the paper and on the news seem to blame the cyclists for this terrible
tragedy. I have trouble believing that is true. Reports from someone on
the ride indicated that the initial crash was related to the truck being
so close to them.



Mike Rosenberg


-----Original Message-----

From: Andy Stahl <andy@fseee.org>

To: obra@list.obra.org

Sent: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:15:39 -0700

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality


  I ride from 1 mile south of Gillespie Corners to Eugene and back
several times a week and live 1/2 mile from yesterday's fatality. I also
farm along Territorial (up Jackson-Marlow Road) and regularly take my
tractor along Territorial, as do all the other farmers in the area.
Tractors go about the same speed as bicycles, and it's hair-raising to
drive a tractor along Territorial. The difference in safety between
Territorial and Lorane Hwy (which has good shoulders) could not be more
dramatic. I have never seen an accident along Lorane Hwy. But I see them
monthly, at least, along Territorial. Yes, cars do go faster along Lorane
Hwy. But the trade-off is well worth it from a bicyclist's perspective.
Talk to the Lorane fire dept. volunteers, as I do, and you'll know that
Territorial Rd. is notoriously more dangerous than Lorane Hwy.


 No one drives with the intention of killing people. But your own
incident illustrates just how bad Territorial Road's engineering is --
there is no reason whatsoever that you, the log truck driver, or the
pick-up should have had to be in the position you were all in. And
there's no justification for driving any motorized vehicle so fast that
only emergency action prevents a rear-end collision with a
bicyclist.


At 09:35 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

 if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!


just to be balanced:

 a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the
twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind me
for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the top.
just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill at us
both. he locked 'em up (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me. i
jumped off my bike after clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to him. no
doubt, his action saved me. those guys aren't out there to kill
people!!





--------

 From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [

mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Andy Stahl

Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM

To: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality


 I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is.
Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the first
time ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be added to the
paint?


 The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I see
them almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on a
bike. Even apart from specific criminality in this instance, another real
crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial Rd. between
Crow and Lorane. Statistically, this has to be one of the most dangerous
roads in Lane County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a monthly
basis between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.


Andy


At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

 I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor
and friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log truck on
Wednesday, May 31. This is a regular group ride that I normally attend,
but missed due to other commitments. The news reports conflict somewhat
with what I have gotten from a rider who was there. It appears that the
truck got very close to the group of four riders on a narrow highway, one
of the riders went down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe a
freshly-painted line. Jane was at the back and apparently, in avoiding
fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and was killed instantly.
Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses, because she was at the back.
We are all trying to get as many facts as we can, so media can be
correctly informed and possible criminal charges pursued.


Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.


Steve Scarich

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

 
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

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________________________________________________

Andy Stahl, Executive Director

Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics

P.O. Box 11615

Eugene, OR 97440

(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)

http://www.fseee.org


________________________________________________

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________________________________________________

Andy Stahl, Executive Director

Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics

P.O. Box 11615

Eugene, OR 97440

(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)

http://www.fseee.org


________________________________________________




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________________________________________________

Andy Stahl, Executive Director

Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics

P.O. Box 11615

Eugene, OR  97440

(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)

http://www.fseee.org

________________________________________________

micros8391@aol.com

Andy,

Maybe you could answer these questions. Was this at an area where
passing in the oncoming lane was legal? I do not think so, but I am not
sure. How wide is the lane where the accident occurred? How wide is the
log truck? Is there any way the truck could pass the riders legally
(staying in its own lane), and give them enough room (at least their
width plus 18" or more)? These are the questions I think are important.
The stories in the paper and on the news seem to blame the cyclists for
this terrible tragedy. I have trouble believing that is true. Reports
from someone on the ride indicated that the initial crash was related
to the truck being so close to them.

Mike Rosenberg

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Stahl
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:15:39 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

I ride from 1 mile south of Gillespie Corners to Eugene and back
several times a week and live 1/2 mile from yesterday's fatality. I
also farm along Territorial (up Jackson-Marlow Road) and regularly take
my tractor along Territorial, as do all the other farmers in the area.
Tractors go about the same speed as bicycles, and it's hair-raising to
drive a tractor along Territorial. The difference in safety between
Territorial and Lorane Hwy (which has good shoulders) could not be more
dramatic. I have never seen an accident along Lorane Hwy. But I see
them monthly, at least, along Territorial. Yes, cars do go faster along
Lorane Hwy. But the trade-off is well worth it from a bicyclist's
perspective. Talk to the Lorane fire dept. volunteers, as I do, and
you'll know that Territorial Rd. is notoriously more dangerous than
Lorane Hwy.

No one drives with the intention of killing people. But your own
incident illustrates just how bad Territorial Road's engineering is --
there is no reason whatsoever that you, the log truck driver, or the
pick-up should have had to be in the position you were all in. And
there's no justification for driving any motorized vehicle so fast that
only emergency action prevents a rear-end collision with a bicyclist.

At 09:35 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!

just to be balanced:
a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the
twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind me
for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the
top. just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill
at us both. he locked 'em up (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me.
i jumped off my bike after clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to
him. no doubt, his action saved me. those guys aren't out there to kill
people!!

--------
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [ mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On Behalf Of Andy Stahl
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is.
Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the
first time ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be added
to the paint?

The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I see them
almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on a bike.
Even apart from specific criminality in this instance, another real
crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial Rd.
between Crow and Lorane. Statistically, this has to be one of the most
dangerous roads in Lane County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a
monthly basis between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.

Andy

At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor and
friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log truck on
Wednesday, May 31. This is a regular group ride that I normally attend,
but missed due to other commitments. The news reports conflict somewhat
with what I have gotten from a rider who was there. It appears that the
truck got very close to the group of four riders on a narrow highway,
one of the riders went down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe
a freshly-painted line. Jane was at the back and apparently, in
avoiding fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and was killed
instantly. Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses, because she was
at the back. We are all trying to get as many facts as we can, so media
can be correctly informed and possible criminal charges pursued.

Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.

Steve Scarich
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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5/31/2006

________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org
________________________________________________
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/354 - Release Date:
6/1/2006
________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org
________________________________________________

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Long, Steve

Boy, you are not lying about that. I have had people intentionally buzz
me more times than I care to discuss and it is almost always the case
that they have an attitude about bikers, bikes or something and they are
looking to mess up your .....

Sometimes, they honestly don't have a clue about what they did but they
usually know just what they are doing.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:19 AM
To: GEORGE SCHRECK; Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com; andy@fseee.org;
obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

George, I love you but I have to disagree, I was run off the road at the
coast on Saturday by a dump truck, no cars coming in the opposite
direction, no reason to do what he did. I ran into a big dirt bank and
tore my fenders all up, so needless to say I wasn't happy. I could have
just as well ended up dead under the wheels of this a--holes truck. Well
a few miles down the road guess who was pulled over at a mini-mart, we
had a little chat and all that came out of his mouth was faggot biker,
several times. So moral of the story is there is plenty of a--hole truck
drivers, bus drivers etc. that go out of there way to mess up your day.
Stay safe everyone,.
Jeff

From: GEORGE SCHRECK
To: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com ; andy@fseee.org ; obra@list.obra.org

Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

At any speed, going under the wheels of a large truck will kill
you.

The sad fact is that any mishap on your bike that causes you to
swerve into traffic can kill you. Unfortunately, in this instance, it
happened just as a truck was going by. I have seen a number of training
ride crashes, and people were just lucky enough to have no vehicles in
close proximity when they went down. I do not think anyone who drives a
truck as a professional is reckless. Professional truck drivers of all
people understand the risks and consequences.

----Original Message----
From: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com
Date: 06/01/2006 9:35 AM
To: "Andy Stahl",
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!

just to be balanced:
a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing
the twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind
me for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the
top. just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill at
us both. he locked 'em up (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me. i
jumped off my bike after clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to him.
no doubt, his action saved me. those guys aren't out there to kill
people!!

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Andy Stahl
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality


I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line
is. Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the
first time ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be added
to the paint?

The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I
see them almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on
a bike. Even apart from specific criminality in this instance, another
real crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial Rd.
between Crow and Lorane. Statistically, this has to be one of the most
dangerous roads in Lane County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a
monthly basis between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.

Andy

At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman
competitor and friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log
truck on Wednesday, May 31. This is a regular group ride that I
normally attend, but missed due to other commitments. The news reports
conflict somewhat with what I have gotten from a rider who was there.
It appears that the truck got very close to the group of four riders on
a narrow highway, one of the riders went down, due to hitting the dirt
shoulder or maybe a freshly-painted line. Jane was at the back and
apparently, in avoiding fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and
was killed instantly. Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses,
because she was at the back. We are all trying to get as many facts as
we can, so media can be correctly informed and possible criminal charges
pursued.

Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.

Steve Scarich
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/353 - Release
Date: 5/31/2006

________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org

________________________________________________

________________________________

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jeff Tedder

George, I love you but I have to disagree, I was run off the road at the coast on Saturday by a dump truck, no cars coming in the opposite direction, no reason to do what he did. I ran into a big dirt bank and tore my fenders all up, so needless to say I wasn't happy. I could have just as well ended up dead under the wheels of this a--holes truck. Well a few miles down the road guess who was pulled over at a mini-mart, we had a little chat and all that came out of his mouth was faggot biker, several times. So moral of the story is there is plenty of a--hole truck drivers, bus drivers etc. that go out of there way to mess up your day. Stay safe everyone,.
Jeff
From: GEORGE SCHRECK
To: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com ; andy@fseee.org ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

At any speed, going under the wheels of a large truck will kill you.

The sad fact is that any mishap on your bike that causes you to swerve into traffic can kill you. Unfortunately, in this instance, it happened just as a truck was going by. I have seen a number of training ride crashes, and people were just lucky enough to have no vehicles in close proximity when they went down. I do not think anyone who drives a truck as a professional is reckless. Professional truck drivers of all people understand the risks and consequences.

----Original Message----
From: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com
Date: 06/01/2006 9:35 AM
To: "Andy Stahl",
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!

just to be balanced:
a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind me for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the top. just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill at us both. he locked 'em up (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me. i jumped off my bike after clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to him. no doubt, his action saved me. those guys aren't out there to kill people!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Andy Stahl
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is. Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the first time ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be added to the paint?

The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I see them almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on a bike. Even apart from specific criminality in this instance, another real crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial Rd. between Crow and Lorane. Statistically, this has to be one of the most dangerous roads in Lane County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a monthly basis between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.

Andy

At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor and friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log truck on Wednesday, May 31. This is a regular group ride that I normally attend, but missed due to other commitments. The news reports conflict somewhat with what I have gotten from a rider who was there. It appears that the truck got very close to the group of four riders on a narrow highway, one of the riders went down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe a freshly-painted line. Jane was at the back and apparently, in avoiding fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and was killed instantly. Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses, because she was at the back. We are all trying to get as many facts as we can, so media can be correctly informed and possible criminal charges pursued.

Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.

Steve Scarich
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________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org
________________________________________________

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Andy Stahl

I ride from 1 mile south of Gillespie Corners to Eugene and
back several times a week and live 1/2 mile from yesterday's
fatality.  I also farm along Territorial (up Jackson-Marlow Road)
and regularly take my tractor along Territorial, as do all the other
farmers in the area.  Tractors go about the same speed as bicycles,
and it's hair-raising to drive a tractor along Territorial.  The
difference in safety between Territorial and Lorane Hwy (which has good
shoulders) could not be more dramatic.  I have never seen an
accident along Lorane Hwy.  But I see them monthly, at least, along
Territorial.  Yes, cars do go faster along Lorane Hwy.  But the
trade-off is well worth it from a bicyclist's perspective.  Talk to
the Lorane fire dept. volunteers, as I do, and you'll know that
Territorial Rd. is notoriously more dangerous than Lorane Hwy.


No one drives with the intention of killing people.  But your own
incident illustrates just how bad Territorial Road's engineering is --
there is no reason whatsoever that you, the log truck driver, or the
pick-up should have had to be in the position you were all in.  And
there's no justification for driving any motorized vehicle so fast that
only emergency action prevents a rear-end collision with a
bicyclist.


At 09:35 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

if the road was wider, cars would go even
faster!

 

just to be balanced:

a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the
twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind me
for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the top.
just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill at us
both. he locked 'em up (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me. i
jumped off my bike after clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to him. no
doubt, his action saved me. those guys aren't out there to kill
people!!

 

 

---

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[
mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Andy
Stahl

Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM

To: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality



I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is. 
Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the first
time ever.  Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be added
to the paint?


The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road.  I see
them almost every day.  Scary even if you're in a car, much less on
a bike.  Even apart from specific criminality in this instance,
another real crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial
Rd. between Crow and Lorane.  Statistically, this has to be one of
the most dangerous roads in Lane County.  I see cars flipped into
the ditch on a monthly basis between Gillespie Corners and Hamm
Road.


Andy


At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

I have sad news to report. 
Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor and friend to many bike racers, was
hit and killed by a log truck on Wednesday, May 31.  This is a
regular group ride that I normally attend, but missed due to other
commitments.  The news reports conflict somewhat with what I have
gotten from a rider who was there.  It appears that the truck got
very close to the group of four riders on a narrow highway, one of the
riders went down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe a
freshly-painted line.  Jane was at the back and apparently, in
avoiding fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and was killed
instantly.  Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses, because she
was at the back.  We are all trying to get as many facts as we can,
so media can be correctly informed and possible criminal charges
pursued.


Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.


Steve Scarich

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org


http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org




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________________________________________________

Andy Stahl, Executive Director

Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics

P.O. Box 11615

Eugene, OR  97440

(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)

http://www.fseee.org


________________________________________________

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6/1/2006

________________________________________________

Andy Stahl, Executive Director

Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics

P.O. Box 11615

Eugene, OR  97440

(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)

http://www.fseee.org

________________________________________________

GEORGE SCHRECK

At any speed, going under the wheels of a large truck will kill you.

The sad fact is that any mishap on your bike that causes you to swerve into traffic can kill you. Unfortunately, in this instance, it happened just as a truck was going by. I have seen a number of training ride crashes, and people were just lucky enough to have no vehicles in close proximity when they went down. I do not think anyone who drives a truck as a professional is reckless. Professional truck drivers of all people understand the risks and consequences.

----Original Message----
From: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com
Date: 06/01/2006 9:35 AM
To: "Andy Stahl",
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!

just to be balanced:
a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind me for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the top. just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill at us both. he locked 'em up (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me. i jumped off my bike after clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to him. no doubt, his action saved me. those guys aren't out there to kill people!!

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Andy Stahl
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is. Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the first time ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be added to the paint?

The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I see them almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on a bike. Even apart from specific criminality in this instance, another real crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial Rd. between Crow and Lorane. Statistically, this has to be one of the most dangerous roads in Lane County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a monthly basis between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.

Andy

At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor and friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log truck on Wednesday, May 31. This is a regular group ride that I normally attend, but missed due to other commitments. The news reports conflict somewhat with what I have gotten from a rider who was there. It appears that the truck got very close to the group of four riders on a narrow highway, one of the riders went down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe a freshly-painted line. Jane was at the back and apparently, in avoiding fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and was killed instantly. Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses, because she was at the back. We are all trying to get as many facts as we can, so media can be correctly informed and possible criminal charges pursued.

Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.

Steve Scarich
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
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________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org
________________________________________________

Michael.Packard@CH2M.com

Yes, what a tragedy.

There are two sides to every issue.

I have had trucks & cars buzz me with absolutely no oncoming traffic &
plenty of space (looooong straight road).

I have had trucks & cars wait to pass and then put themselves at an
increased risk (on windy roads) to give me a safe amount of riding
space, or take up the opposing lane (when it's clear & straight).

It's not the car, the truck - it's the driver. Some will buzz you, some
won't. Some show more respect for the safety of those around them, some
don't.

Be respectful and wave!! And be thankful you're still on your bike.

Michael

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Eric Kytola
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:36 AM
To: Andy Stahl; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!

just to be balanced:
a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the
twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind me
for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the top.
just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill at us
both. he locked 'em up (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me. i
jumped off my bike after clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to him.
no doubt, his action saved me. those guys aren't out there to kill
people!!

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Stahl
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is.
Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the
first time ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be added
to the paint?

The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I see them
almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on a bike.
Even apart from specific criminality in this instance, another real
crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial Rd. between
Crow and Lorane. Statistically, this has to be one of the most
dangerous roads in Lane County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a
monthly basis between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.

Andy

At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman
competitor and friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log
truck on Wednesday, May 31. This is a regular group ride that I
normally attend, but missed due to other commitments. The news reports
conflict somewhat with what I have gotten from a rider who was there.
It appears that the truck got very close to the group of four riders on
a narrow highway, one of the riders went down, due to hitting the dirt
shoulder or maybe a freshly-painted line. Jane was at the back and
apparently, in avoiding fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and
was killed instantly. Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses,
because she was at the back. We are all trying to get as many facts as
we can, so media can be correctly informed and possible criminal charges
pursued.

Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.

Steve Scarich
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/353 - Release Date:
5/31/2006

________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org
________________________________________________

Eric Kytola

if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!

just to be balanced:
a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the
twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind me
for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the top.
just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill at us
both. he locked 'em up (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me. i
jumped off my bike after clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to him.
no doubt, his action saved me. those guys aren't out there to kill
people!!

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Stahl
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality

I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is.
Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the
first time ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be added
to the paint?

The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I see them
almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on a bike.
Even apart from specific criminality in this instance, another real
crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial Rd. between
Crow and Lorane. Statistically, this has to be one of the most
dangerous roads in Lane County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a
monthly basis between Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.

Andy

At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman
competitor and friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log
truck on Wednesday, May 31. This is a regular group ride that I
normally attend, but missed due to other commitments. The news reports
conflict somewhat with what I have gotten from a rider who was there.
It appears that the truck got very close to the group of four riders on
a narrow highway, one of the riders went down, due to hitting the dirt
shoulder or maybe a freshly-painted line. Jane was at the back and
apparently, in avoiding fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and
was killed instantly. Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses,
because she was at the back. We are all trying to get as many facts as
we can, so media can be correctly informed and possible criminal charges
pursued.

Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.

Steve Scarich
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/353 - Release Date:
5/31/2006

________________________________________________
Andy Stahl, Executive Director
Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics
P.O. Box 11615
Eugene, OR 97440
(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)
http://www.fseee.org
________________________________________________

Andy Stahl

I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white
line is.  Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on
it for the first time ever.  Why can't some abrasive material, e.g.,
sand, be added to the paint?


The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road.  I see
them almost every day.  Scary even if you're in a car, much less on
a bike.  Even apart from specific criminality in this instance,
another real crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial
Rd. between Crow and Lorane.  Statistically, this has to be one of
the most dangerous roads in Lane County.  I see cars flipped into
the ditch on a monthly basis between Gillespie Corners and Hamm
Road.


Andy


At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

I have sad news to report. 
Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor and friend to many bike racers, was
hit and killed by a log truck on Wednesday, May 31.  This is a
regular group ride that I normally attend, but missed due to other
commitments.  The news reports conflict somewhat with what I have
gotten from a rider who was there.  It appears that the truck got
very close to the group of four riders on a narrow highway, one of the
riders went down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe a
freshly-painted line.  Jane was at the back and apparently, in
avoiding fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and was killed
instantly.  Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses, because she
was at the back.  We are all trying to get as many facts as we can,
so media can be correctly informed and possible criminal charges
pursued.


Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.


Steve Scarich

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org


http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org




--

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/353 - Release Date:
5/31/2006

________________________________________________

Andy Stahl, Executive Director

Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics

P.O. Box 11615

Eugene, OR  97440

(541) 484-2692, 484-3004(FAX)

http://www.fseee.org

________________________________________________

Steve Scarich

I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor and friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log truck on Wednesday, May 31. This is a regular group ride that I normally attend, but missed due to other commitments. The news reports conflict somewhat with what I have gotten from a rider who was there. It appears that the truck got very close to the group of four riders on a narrow highway, one of the riders went down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe a freshly-painted line. Jane was at the back and apparently, in avoiding fallen rider, got caught in truck's wheels and was killed instantly. Unfortunately, there were no eye-witnesses, because she was at the back. We are all trying to get as many facts as we can, so media can be correctly informed and possible criminal charges pursued.

Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.

Steve Scarich