Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists

George de Randich

2006-06-04

I haven't had much trouble yet, but then I'm driving a rather massive
vehicle!

George de Randich,
Longview, Washington

-------Original Message-------

From: Dave German
Date: 06/01/06 23:08:26
To: obra@list.obra.org; Susan Otcenas
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists

Yo G! Ride wherever you feel it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Otcenas
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists


>>>>Are we idiots yet.....the farther I ride in the road the more room cars
Will give me????

>> If you ride further out in the lane, as a legitimate user of the road,
they tend to give you more room. You are also more likely to be seen when
you ride further to the left. It also prevents drivers from making passes
into blind corners if they see they have less room. It may seem counter
intuitive but it really works.

I use the same technique and I believe it works too. And with the few who DO
decide to pass too close, I have room to move right on pavement, rather than
being run into the dirt or ditch. I also always ride with an eyeglass mirror
I like to know what's coming up behind me, and see whether or not the
driver is courteously giving me some space or if I need to brace for a close
one.

Susan

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Brian Engelen

2006-06-02

I have heard the technical term is "bowen schnitzer" (spelling??).
Misspoken German for bowing snotter???

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:41 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists

One day I accidentally discovered another way to encourage drivers to
give me more room. It was early on a chilly morning and I was on my way
to work on a route that is rural and lightly traveled. I was heading
down a short, but steep, hill. With the wind noise I was unaware of an
approaching pickup. At the moment the pickup swooped by I happened to
clear my nose to the left - all over the front of it. It was just as you
might expect on a chilly morning - a prodigious amount of some
significant consistency.
I don't recall ever being swooped by that truck again...

Rick
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Dan H

2006-06-02

Rick, I've got one better.
It was a nice day in the gorge and did not notice the VW bug coming up
behind me with the passenger window down. I don't know exactly where it
landed but it did go right in the window. The road was narrow and it took a
while for the VW's operator to find a turnaround but turn around he did. As
he came up behind me again I tried to anticipate what kind of confrontation
might ensue and should I fear for my life. As he pulled even he opened his
mouth to speak but before he could I blurted out "I didn't meant to do
that!" Without a word he just drove on.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick C Johnson"
To:
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists

> One day I accidentally discovered another way to encourage drivers to
> give me more room. It was early on a chilly morning and I was on my way
> to work on a route that is rural and lightly traveled. I was heading
> down a short, but steep, hill. With the wind noise I was unaware of an
> approaching pickup. At the moment the pickup swooped by I happened to
> clear my nose to the left - all over the front of it. It was just as you
> might expect on a chilly morning - a prodigious amount of some
> significant consistency.
> I don't recall ever being swooped by that truck again...
>
> Rick
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>


Rick C Johnson

2006-06-02

One day I accidentally discovered another way to encourage drivers to
give me more room. It was early on a chilly morning and I was on my way
to work on a route that is rural and lightly traveled. I was heading
down a short, but steep, hill. With the wind noise I was unaware of an
approaching pickup. At the moment the pickup swooped by I happened to
clear my nose to the left - all over the front of it. It was just as you
might expect on a chilly morning - a prodigious amount of some
significant consistency.
I don't recall ever being swooped by that truck again...

Rick


Dave German

2006-06-01

MessageYo G! Ride wherever you feel it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Otcenas
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists

>>>>Are we idiots yet.....the farther I ride in the road the more room cars
will give me????

>> If you ride further out in the lane, as a legitimate user of the road, they tend to give you more room. You are also more likely to be seen when you ride further to the left. It also prevents drivers from making passes into blind corners if they see they have less room. It may seem counter intuitive but it really works.

I use the same technique and I believe it works too. And with the few who DO decide to pass too close, I have room to move right on pavement, rather than being run into the dirt or ditch. I also always ride with an eyeglass mirror. I like to know what's coming up behind me, and see whether or not the driver is couteously giving me some space or if I need to brace for a close one.

Susan

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.David.Auker.

2006-06-01

Brian Engelen wrote:

> This may sound like a stupid idea, but I do it all of the time. I try to
> look a bit more unpredictable. I wobble and weave a little bit. Much
> like
> an inexperienced rookie bike rider would, nothing excessive or obvious.
>
>

Anything to enhance driver awareness....even if theatrical. I sometimes
do a little "ducking routine," where I'm "avoiding" branches from
(imaginary) bushes/trees. What I'm attempting to make the motorist
think is, "Gee, look how he's endangering himself over there by those
branches just so we can get by...what a nice boy...I'm going to give him
more room!" (Not a usable ploy if there are absolutely no bushes/trees
in sight...)

David


George de Randich

2006-06-01

Instinctively I've been doing the same thing when riding my Worksman Three
Wheeler!
George de Randich
Longview, Washington

-------Original Message-------

From: SplinterW@aol.com
Date: 06/01/06 13:18:29
To: matthew.wolpert@gmail.com; Steve.Long@clark.wa.gov
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists

About 30 years ago a rider that I knew in Colorado, who was then in his 60s
with many years of touring in Europe, gave me a tip that is similar to
Matthew's, but a lot less tiring. Since, I have had relatively few problems
with drivers since then I assume it does work.

His tip was whenever you hear a car approaching from the rear, turn your
head as if you are looking back. You don't have to turn all the way around
enough to actually see the car -- especially if they are still a long way
back. Just the movement of your head conveys to the driver that you know
they are there and for those who may be thinking aggressively they have to
wonder if you have seen them and could identify them. Sometimes, in places
where it is tight or cars are coming at very high speeds I may look a couple
of times. If they do come close anyway, I use the smile & friendly wave
after they go by as the reminder that I did see them.

Splinter Wrenn
"Kids don't care how much you know until they know how much you care."


Matthew Wolpert

2006-06-01

This (wobbling) is an excellent idea. I do this when approaching busy
intersections, and other times where I'm not sure if people are paying
attention to me. Somehow it seems like if you vary your trajectory, in
a slightly erratica way, it's much more likely to trigger a driver's
"bicyclist pattern recognition algorithm" and once they're paying
attention to you, you're a good bit safer.

-Matthew

On 6/1/06, Brian Engelen wrote:
> This may sound like a stupid idea, but I do it all of the time. I try to
> look a bit more unpredictable. I wobble and weave a little bit. Much like
> an inexperienced rookie bike rider would, nothing excessive or obvious.
>
>
> Brian
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Thomas Hoffman
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:32 AM
> To: 'Beth Whittaker'; 'Long, Steve'; 'Matthew Wolpert'
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists
>
> I can't remember the name of the book, but it is out there. Something Like
> Defensive Cycling. Along with plenty of other helpful tips, this "take the
> lane" idea was featured. Of course Like Steve Long said, move to the right
> as they approach. Of course if there is ample shoulder, or a bike lane, use
> it.
>
> More than anything it is about giving yourself a cushion to escape into.
>
>
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: Beth Whittaker [mailto:bethw@schetkynw.com]
> ~~)(~~Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:25 PM
> ~~)(~~To: Thomas Hoffman; Long, Steve; Matthew Wolpert
> ~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Are we idiots yet.....the farther I ride in the road the more room
> cars
> ~~)(~~will give me???? Theory or stupidity...I can hear the motorists now.
> ~~)(~~Stupid cyclists why do they ride in the road or on the white line???
> ~~)(~~Courtesy goes a long way! Common sense is all just a prospective!
> ~~)(~~
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Brian Engelen

2006-06-01

This may sound like a stupid idea, but I do it all of the time. I try to
look a bit more unpredictable. I wobble and weave a little bit. Much like
an inexperienced rookie bike rider would, nothing excessive or obvious.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Thomas Hoffman
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:32 AM
To: 'Beth Whittaker'; 'Long, Steve'; 'Matthew Wolpert'
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists

I can't remember the name of the book, but it is out there. Something Like
Defensive Cycling. Along with plenty of other helpful tips, this "take the
lane" idea was featured. Of course Like Steve Long said, move to the right
as they approach. Of course if there is ample shoulder, or a bike lane, use
it.

More than anything it is about giving yourself a cushion to escape into.

~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
~~)(~~From: Beth Whittaker [mailto:bethw@schetkynw.com]
~~)(~~Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:25 PM
~~)(~~To: Thomas Hoffman; Long, Steve; Matthew Wolpert
~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Are we idiots yet.....the farther I ride in the road the more room
cars
~~)(~~will give me???? Theory or stupidity...I can hear the motorists now.
~~)(~~Stupid cyclists why do they ride in the road or on the white line???
~~)(~~Courtesy goes a long way! Common sense is all just a prospective!
~~)(~~

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SplinterW@aol.com

2006-06-01

About 30 years ago a rider that I knew in Colorado, who was then in his 60s
with many years of touring in Europe, gave me a tip that is similar to
Matthew's, but a lot less tiring. Since, I have had relatively few problems with
drivers since then I assume it does work.

His tip was whenever you hear a car approaching from the rear, turn your
head as if you are looking back. You don't have to turn all the way around
enough to actually see the car -- especially if they are still a long way back.
Just the movement of your head conveys to the driver that you know they are
there and for those who may be thinking aggressively they have to wonder if you
have seen them and could identify them. Sometimes, in places where it is
tight or cars are coming at very high speeds I may look a couple of times. If
they do come close anyway, I use the smile & friendly wave after they go by as
the reminder that I did see them.

Splinter Wrenn
"Kids don't care how much you know until they know how much you care."


Susan Otcenas

2006-06-01

>>>>Are we idiots yet.....the farther I ride in the road the more room cars
will give me????

>> If you ride further out in the lane, as a legitimate user of the road,
they tend to give you more room. You are also more likely to be seen when
you ride further to the left. It also prevents drivers from making passes
into blind corners if they see they have less room. It may seem counter
intuitive but it really works.

I use the same technique and I believe it works too. And with the few who
DO decide to pass too close, I have room to move right on pavement, rather
than being run into the dirt or ditch. I also always ride with an eyeglass
mirror. I like to know what's coming up behind me, and see whether or not
the driver is couteously giving me some space or if I need to brace for a
close one.

Susan


Thomas Hoffman

2006-06-01

I can't remember the name of the book, but it is out there. Something Like
Defensive Cycling. Along with plenty of other helpful tips, this "take the
lane" idea was featured. Of course Like Steve Long said, move to the right
as they approach. Of course if there is ample shoulder, or a bike lane, use
it.

More than anything it is about giving yourself a cushion to escape into.

~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
~~)(~~From: Beth Whittaker [mailto:bethw@schetkynw.com]
~~)(~~Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:25 PM
~~)(~~To: Thomas Hoffman; Long, Steve; Matthew Wolpert
~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Are we idiots yet.....the farther I ride in the road the more room
cars
~~)(~~will give me???? Theory or stupidity...I can hear the motorists now.
~~)(~~Stupid cyclists why do they ride in the road or on the white line???
~~)(~~Courtesy goes a long way! Common sense is all just a prospective!
~~)(~~


Jon Hansen

2006-06-01

Cars tend to get closer to you the further to the right you are, they figure you're on the shoulder they've got plenty of room. If you ride further out in the lane, as a legitimate user of the road, they tend to give you more room. You are also more likely to be seen when you ride further to the left. It also prevents drivers from making passes into blind corners if they see they have less room. It may seem counter intuitive but it really works.

jon.



----- Original Message -

From: Beth Whittaker
To: Thomas Hoffman ; "Long, Steve" ; Matthew Wolpert
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:25:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists

Are we idiots yet.....the farther I ride in the road the more room cars
will give me???? Theory or stupidity...I can hear the motorists now.
Stupid cyclists why do they ride in the road or on the white line???
Courtesy goes a long way! Common sense is all just a prospective!

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obra@list.obra.org
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Beth Whittaker

2006-06-01

Are we idiots yet.....the farther I ride in the road the more room cars
will give me???? Theory or stupidity...I can hear the motorists now.
Stupid cyclists why do they ride in the road or on the white line???
Courtesy goes a long way! Common sense is all just a prospective!


Thomas Hoffman

2006-06-01

I've riding like this for years. The closer to the right I ride, the closer
people get to me. Get in the way, they will go around.

Last week, I had a Suburban barely puts its left wheels on the center lane
as it passed me. The next car that passed, seconds later, was an MG Miget.
It was entirely in the Left lane.

~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On
~~)(~~Behalf Of Long, Steve
~~)(~~Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:42 AM
~~)(~~To: Matthew Wolpert
~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists
~~)(~~
~~)(~~This also works 99.5% of the time:
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Move out into the lane 1/3 of the way. When the vehicle starts getting
~~)(~~close, and you've seen that they are going to give you room, move over
~~)(~~as if to say "Hey, I don't want to be in your way," and they will
~~)(~~literally give you a bunch of room. A sunglasses mounted mirror, or
some
~~)(~~other kind of mirror, is nearly essential for this to work well
though.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
~~)(~~From: Matthew Wolpert [mailto:matthew.wolpert@gmail.com]
~~)(~~Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:37 AM
~~)(~~To: Long, Steve
~~)(~~Cc: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Hello,
~~)(~~
~~)(~~I just wanted to share a technique that I've found works surprisingly
~~)(~~well for me at getting cars to give me a safer amount of space while
~~)(~~passing. It goes like this:
~~)(~~
~~)(~~"Make a preemptive wave at each approaching car, when the driver is
~~)(~~close enough to clearly see that you're waving, but far enough that
the
~~)(~~driver gets to decide how much space he or she wants to give you."
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Advantages: Two of the reasons that drivers put our lives at risk are
~~)(~~(1) They're not paying attention; (2) They have negative attitudes
~~)(~~towards bicyclists in general.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Waving greatly reduces the incidence of (1) for obvious reasons. For
~~)(~~(2), it's a little more tricky, but I believe the wave works because
it
~~)(~~is a friendly gesture, and it's a lot harder psychologically for the
~~)(~~driver to "buzz" you if you've just waved at him or her. If you turn
~~)(~~around and look back towards them and then wave, they'll usually give
~~)(~~even more space, but that's not practical to do very often. I save
that
~~)(~~for the most dangerous stretches of road.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~I first discovered this on a scary section of road, where I literally
~~)(~~feared for my life. I started waving at each car, and found that the
~~)(~~average distance between me and the cars increased noticeably. The
~~)(~~drivers who would have given me a safe distance on their own would
~~)(~~frequently go totally into the oncoming lane to pass me. Most of the
~~)(~~other drivers gave me a happy amount of space. A few came a little
~~)(~~closer than ideal, but none buzzed me. My left arm was tired by the
end,
~~)(~~but I was hooked.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Disadvantages: You left arm gets tired. Also, it can be more than a
~~)(~~little distracting from your ride to have to wave at everyone. It
~~)(~~doesn't work so well on really really busy roads, because then you're
~~)(~~just waving all the time. You need a good enough sense of hearing,
~~)(~~because you can't be looking back all the time to see when a car is
~~)(~~coming. A helmet mounted mirror might work well for this, I know some
~~)(~~people can't say enough about them. Waving doesn't work so well when
~~)(~~it's dark out and the driver can't see you. The night driver who
~~)(~~dislikes bicyclists is a real safety worry for me.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Hope that helps someone.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Matthew
~~)(~~
~~)(~~On 6/1/06, Long, Steve wrote:
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> Boy, you are not lying about that. I have had people intentionally
~~)(~~> buzz me more times than I care to discuss and it is almost always
the
~~)(~~> case that they have an attitude about bikers, bikes or something and
~~)(~~> they are looking to mess up your .....
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> Sometimes, they honestly don't have a clue about what they did but
~~)(~~> they usually know just what they are doing.
~~)(~~> ________________________________
~~)(~~> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
~~)(~~> On Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
~~)(~~> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:19 AM
~~)(~~> To: GEORGE SCHRECK; Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com; andy@fseee.org;
~~)(~~> obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> George, I love you but I have to disagree, I was run off the road at
~~)(~~> the coast on Saturday by a dump truck, no cars coming in the
opposite
~~)(~~> direction, no reason to do what he did. I ran into a big dirt bank
and
~~)(~~
~~)(~~> tore my fenders all up, so needless to say I wasn't happy. I could
~~)(~~> have just as well ended up dead under the wheels of this a--holes
~~)(~~> truck. Well a few miles down the road guess who was pulled over at a
~~)(~~> mini-mart, we had a little chat and all that came out of his mouth
was
~~)(~~
~~)(~~> faggot biker, several times. So moral of the story is there is
plenty
~~)(~~> of a--hole truck drivers, bus drivers etc. that go out of there way
to
~~)(~~mess up your day. Stay safe everyone,.
~~)(~~> Jeff
~~)(~~> From: GEORGE SCHRECK
~~)(~~> To: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com ; andy@fseee.org ; obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:01 AM
~~)(~~> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> At any speed, going under the wheels of a large truck will kill you.
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> The sad fact is that any mishap on your bike that causes you to
swerve
~~)(~~
~~)(~~> into traffic can kill you. Unfortunately, in this instance, it
~~)(~~> happened just as a truck was going by. I have seen a number of
~~)(~~> training ride crashes, and people were just lucky enough to have no
~~)(~~> vehicles in close proximity when they went down. I do not think
~~)(~~> anyone who drives a truck as a professional is reckless.
Professional
~~)(~~
~~)(~~> truck drivers of all people understand the risks and consequences.
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> ----Original Message----
~~)(~~> From: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com
~~)(~~> Date: 06/01/2006 9:35 AM
~~)(~~> To: "Andy Stahl",
~~)(~~> Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> just to be balanced:
~~)(~~> a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the
~~)(~~> twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind
me
~~)(~~
~~)(~~> for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the
~~)(~~> top. just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the
hill
~~)(~~> at us both. he locked 'em up
~~)(~~> (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me. i jumped off my bike
after
~~)(~~> clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to him. no doubt, his action
~~)(~~saved me.
~~)(~~> those guys aren't out there to kill people!!
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> ________________________________
~~)(~~> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
~~)(~~> On Behalf Of Andy Stahl
~~)(~~> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM
~~)(~~> To: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is.
~~)(~~> Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the
~~)(~~> first time ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be
~~)(~~added to the paint?
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I see
~~)(~~> them almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on
a
~~)(~~> bike. Even apart from specific criminality in this instance,
another
~~)(~~> real crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial
Rd.
~~)(~~between Crow and Lorane.
~~)(~~> Statistically, this has to be one of the most dangerous roads in
Lane
~~)(~~
~~)(~~> County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a monthly basis
between
~~)(~~> Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> Andy
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
~~)(~~> I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor
and
~~)(~~> friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log truck on
~~)(~~Wednesday, May 31.
~~)(~~> This is a regular group ride that I normally attend, but missed due
~~)(~~> to other commitments. The news reports conflict somewhat with what
I
~~)(~~> have gotten from a rider who was there. It appears that the truck
got
~~)(~~
~~)(~~> very close to the group of four riders on a narrow highway, one of
the
~~)(~~
~~)(~~> riders went down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe a
~~)(~~freshly-painted line.
~~)(~~> Jane was at the back and apparently, in avoiding fallen rider, got
~~)(~~> caught in truck's wheels and was killed instantly. Unfortunately,
~~)(~~> there were no eye-witnesses, because she was at the back. We are
all
~~)(~~> trying to get as many facts as we can, so media can be correctly
~~)(~~> informed and possible criminal charges pursued.
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~> Steve Scarich
~~)(~~>
~~)(~~_______________________________________________
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~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
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Long, Steve

2006-06-01

This also works 99.5% of the time:

Move out into the lane 1/3 of the way. When the vehicle starts getting
close, and you've seen that they are going to give you room, move over
as if to say "Hey, I don't want to be in your way," and they will
literally give you a bunch of room. A sunglasses mounted mirror, or some
other kind of mirror, is nearly essential for this to work well though.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Wolpert [mailto:matthew.wolpert@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:37 AM
To: Long, Steve
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Discouraging cars from "buzzing" bicyclists

Hello,

I just wanted to share a technique that I've found works surprisingly
well for me at getting cars to give me a safer amount of space while
passing. It goes like this:

"Make a preemptive wave at each approaching car, when the driver is
close enough to clearly see that you're waving, but far enough that the
driver gets to decide how much space he or she wants to give you."

Advantages: Two of the reasons that drivers put our lives at risk are
(1) They're not paying attention; (2) They have negative attitudes
towards bicyclists in general.

Waving greatly reduces the incidence of (1) for obvious reasons. For
(2), it's a little more tricky, but I believe the wave works because it
is a friendly gesture, and it's a lot harder psychologically for the
driver to "buzz" you if you've just waved at him or her. If you turn
around and look back towards them and then wave, they'll usually give
even more space, but that's not practical to do very often. I save that
for the most dangerous stretches of road.

I first discovered this on a scary section of road, where I literally
feared for my life. I started waving at each car, and found that the
average distance between me and the cars increased noticeably. The
drivers who would have given me a safe distance on their own would
frequently go totally into the oncoming lane to pass me. Most of the
other drivers gave me a happy amount of space. A few came a little
closer than ideal, but none buzzed me. My left arm was tired by the end,
but I was hooked.

Disadvantages: You left arm gets tired. Also, it can be more than a
little distracting from your ride to have to wave at everyone. It
doesn't work so well on really really busy roads, because then you're
just waving all the time. You need a good enough sense of hearing,
because you can't be looking back all the time to see when a car is
coming. A helmet mounted mirror might work well for this, I know some
people can't say enough about them. Waving doesn't work so well when
it's dark out and the driver can't see you. The night driver who
dislikes bicyclists is a real safety worry for me.

Hope that helps someone.

Matthew

On 6/1/06, Long, Steve wrote:
>
> Boy, you are not lying about that. I have had people intentionally
> buzz me more times than I care to discuss and it is almost always the
> case that they have an attitude about bikers, bikes or something and
> they are looking to mess up your .....
>
> Sometimes, they honestly don't have a clue about what they did but
> they usually know just what they are doing.
> ________________________________
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:19 AM
> To: GEORGE SCHRECK; Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com; andy@fseee.org;
> obra@list.obra.org
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
>
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
>
>
> George, I love you but I have to disagree, I was run off the road at
> the coast on Saturday by a dump truck, no cars coming in the opposite
> direction, no reason to do what he did. I ran into a big dirt bank and

> tore my fenders all up, so needless to say I wasn't happy. I could
> have just as well ended up dead under the wheels of this a--holes
> truck. Well a few miles down the road guess who was pulled over at a
> mini-mart, we had a little chat and all that came out of his mouth was

> faggot biker, several times. So moral of the story is there is plenty
> of a--hole truck drivers, bus drivers etc. that go out of there way to
mess up your day. Stay safe everyone,.
> Jeff
> From: GEORGE SCHRECK
> To: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com ; andy@fseee.org ; obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
>
>
>
> At any speed, going under the wheels of a large truck will kill you.
>
> The sad fact is that any mishap on your bike that causes you to swerve

> into traffic can kill you. Unfortunately, in this instance, it
> happened just as a truck was going by. I have seen a number of
> training ride crashes, and people were just lucky enough to have no
> vehicles in close proximity when they went down. I do not think
> anyone who drives a truck as a professional is reckless. Professional

> truck drivers of all people understand the risks and consequences.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com
> Date: 06/01/2006 9:35 AM
> To: "Andy Stahl",
> Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
>
> if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!
>
> just to be balanced:
> a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the
> twisting section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind me

> for awhile. i was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the
> top. just as he got to me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill
> at us both. he locked 'em up
> (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me. i jumped off my bike after
> clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to him. no doubt, his action
saved me.
> those guys aren't out there to kill people!!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On Behalf Of Andy Stahl
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
>
> I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is.
> Riding in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the
> first time ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be
added to the paint?
>
> The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I see
> them almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on a
> bike. Even apart from specific criminality in this instance, another
> real crime is the state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial Rd.
between Crow and Lorane.
> Statistically, this has to be one of the most dangerous roads in Lane

> County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a monthly basis between
> Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.
>
> Andy
>
> At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
> I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor and
> friend to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log truck on
Wednesday, May 31.
> This is a regular group ride that I normally attend, but missed due
> to other commitments. The news reports conflict somewhat with what I
> have gotten from a rider who was there. It appears that the truck got

> very close to the group of four riders on a narrow highway, one of the

> riders went down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe a
freshly-painted line.
> Jane was at the back and apparently, in avoiding fallen rider, got
> caught in truck's wheels and was killed instantly. Unfortunately,
> there were no eye-witnesses, because she was at the back. We are all
> trying to get as many facts as we can, so media can be correctly
> informed and possible criminal charges pursued.
>
> Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.
>
> Steve Scarich
>


Matthew Wolpert

2006-06-01

Hello,

I just wanted to share a technique that I've found works surprisingly
well for me at getting cars to give me a safer amount of space while
passing. It goes like this:

"Make a preemptive wave at each approaching car, when the driver is
close enough to clearly see that you're waving, but far enough that
the driver gets to decide how much space he or she wants to give you."

Advantages: Two of the reasons that drivers put our lives at risk are
(1) They're not paying attention; (2) They have negative attitudes
towards bicyclists in general.

Waving greatly reduces the incidence of (1) for obvious reasons. For
(2), it's a little more tricky, but I believe the wave works because
it is a friendly gesture, and it's a lot harder psychologically for
the driver to "buzz" you if you've just waved at him or her. If you
turn around and look back towards them and then wave, they'll usually
give even more space, but that's not practical to do very often. I
save that for the most dangerous stretches of road.

I first discovered this on a scary section of road, where I literally
feared for my life. I started waving at each car, and found that the
average distance between me and the cars increased noticeably. The
drivers who would have given me a safe distance on their own would
frequently go totally into the oncoming lane to pass me. Most of the
other drivers gave me a happy amount of space. A few came a little
closer than ideal, but none buzzed me. My left arm was tired by the
end, but I was hooked.

Disadvantages: You left arm gets tired. Also, it can be more than a
little distracting from your ride to have to wave at everyone. It
doesn't work so well on really really busy roads, because then you're
just waving all the time. You need a good enough sense of hearing,
because you can't be looking back all the time to see when a car is
coming. A helmet mounted mirror might work well for this, I know some
people can't say enough about them. Waving doesn't work so well when
it's dark out and the driver can't see you. The night driver who
dislikes bicyclists is a real safety worry for me.

Hope that helps someone.

Matthew

On 6/1/06, Long, Steve wrote:
>
> Boy, you are not lying about that. I have had people intentionally buzz me
> more times than I care to discuss and it is almost always the case that they
> have an attitude about bikers, bikes or something and they are looking to
> mess up your .....
>
> Sometimes, they honestly don't have a clue about what they did but they
> usually know just what they are doing.
> ________________________________
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:19 AM
> To: GEORGE SCHRECK; Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com; andy@fseee.org;
> obra@list.obra.org
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
>
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
>
>
> George, I love you but I have to disagree, I was run off the road at the
> coast on Saturday by a dump truck, no cars coming in the opposite direction,
> no reason to do what he did. I ran into a big dirt bank and tore my fenders
> all up, so needless to say I wasn't happy. I could have just as well ended
> up dead under the wheels of this a--holes truck. Well a few miles down the
> road guess who was pulled over at a mini-mart, we had a little chat and all
> that came out of his mouth was faggot biker, several times. So moral of the
> story is there is plenty of a--hole truck drivers, bus drivers etc. that go
> out of there way to mess up your day. Stay safe everyone,.
> Jeff
> From: GEORGE SCHRECK
> To: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com ; andy@fseee.org ; obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
>
>
>
> At any speed, going under the wheels of a large truck will kill you.
>
> The sad fact is that any mishap on your bike that causes you to swerve into
> traffic can kill you. Unfortunately, in this instance, it happened just as
> a truck was going by. I have seen a number of training ride crashes, and
> people were just lucky enough to have no vehicles in close proximity when
> they went down. I do not think anyone who drives a truck as a professional
> is reckless. Professional truck drivers of all people understand the risks
> and consequences.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com
> Date: 06/01/2006 9:35 AM
> To: "Andy Stahl",
> Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
>
> if the road was wider, cars would go even faster!
>
> just to be balanced:
> a log truck driver saved my life out there once. i was climbing the twisting
> section just before King Estate. i heard him coming behind me for awhile. i
> was pedaling like mad to clear the gaurdrail near the top. just as he got to
> me a large Dodge truck came from over the hill at us both. he locked 'em up
> (read: dead stop) to avoid splattering me. i jumped off my bike after
> clearing the gaurdrail and bowed down to him. no doubt, his action saved me.
> those guys aren't out there to kill people!!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Andy Stahl
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:22 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene Cycling Fatality
>
> I can confirm how slippery the Territorial Road new white line is. Riding
> in this morning on that same section I skidded on it for the first time
> ever. Why can't some abrasive material, e.g., sand, be added to the paint?
>
> The logging trucks go much too fast along Territorial Road. I see them
> almost every day. Scary even if you're in a car, much less on a bike. Even
> apart from specific criminality in this instance, another real crime is the
> state's failure to add shoulders to Territorial Rd. between Crow and Lorane.
> Statistically, this has to be one of the most dangerous roads in Lane
> County. I see cars flipped into the ditch on a monthly basis between
> Gillespie Corners and Hamm Road.
>
> Andy
>
> At 09:15 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
> I have sad news to report. Jane Higdon, local Ironman competitor and friend
> to many bike racers, was hit and killed by a log truck on Wednesday, May 31.
> This is a regular group ride that I normally attend, but missed due to
> other commitments. The news reports conflict somewhat with what I have
> gotten from a rider who was there. It appears that the truck got very close
> to the group of four riders on a narrow highway, one of the riders went
> down, due to hitting the dirt shoulder or maybe a freshly-painted line.
> Jane was at the back and apparently, in avoiding fallen rider, got caught in
> truck's wheels and was killed instantly. Unfortunately, there were no
> eye-witnesses, because she was at the back. We are all trying to get as
> many facts as we can, so media can be correctly informed and possible
> criminal charges pursued.
>
> Again, a very sad day in Eugene's cycling community.
>
> Steve Scarich
>