Mike Murray

Amy Perrin wrote:
"Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the promoter of a race have
the
right to refuse entry to a rider who has a history of unsportsmanlike
conduct?"

Technically no. Under OBRA rules race organizers do not have an ability to
refuse entry to riders that are qualified from the event. Acting as an
agent of a landowner a race organizer may exclude an individual from private
property, if that applies, but they may not decide to allow some riders in
and not allow others. The race officials may disqualify the rider under
several rules and the Chief Referee may suggest suspension which is imposed
by the Executive Director which prohibits the rider from competing in all
races for the period of the suspension. Riders may also be prohibited from
being at a bike race or a specific venue by court order but the power to
exclude a rider is not something that the promoter has.

Mike Murray

Steve Brown

I was riding across the Sellwood bridge and had the urge. Realized I
had two popular topics at once. By the time I could figure out whether
to pee off the bike on the sidewalk on in the road, I was across the
bridge and close enough to home to wait.

Steve Brown
On Jun 23, 2006, at 1:03 PM, Jess Mace wrote:

> or how about getting on your bike, riding a whopping 300 feet over to
> one of two restrooms...
> if Tuesday was anything like Monday there were about 20 HoneyBuckets
> rigth at the grandstand.
> if they were absent, I think "grandparent" rules apply...if you
> wouldn't do it at your grandparents house, you shouldn't do it in
> public.
> if an event manager was there as oversight for whatever reason, that
> puts a bad lens on all of OBRA
> and I'm sure warnings would ensue. its hypothetical, but possible.
> and when it comes down to it, you piss off Candi, your racing future
> could be jeopardized...
> keep it in your pants and can we please put this to rest?
>
> Jess C. Mace
> Otolaryngology Clinical and Outcomes Research
> Coordinator with Dr. Timothy Smith
> Head and Neck Surgery
> Oregon Health & Science University
> 503.494.5886
>
>>>> "Dave German" 6/23/2006 10:48 AM >>>
>
> I'm with Brian. What's the big deal? We all pee. As long as we all
> don't
> pee in the same place, cuz then it gets kinda stinky. Under the
> stands -
> not such a good idea. Behind the dumpster - better idea, still bad.
> Back
> in the corner behind a tree - good idea. Ahhhhhh that fees better.
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:57:23 -0700
> From: Moran.Brian@epamail.epa.gov
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Real Men of Genius
> To: OBRA list
> Message-ID:
> -88257196.005D2519@epamail.epa.gov>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> This is getting out of hand. Does anyone know the circumstances of
> this
> phantom pee-er? Perhaps he had taken a few hours off work, driven 2
> hours
> to the race venue, paid his race fee, warmed up and hydrated properly,
> and
> was suddenly faced with the possibility of starting his race with a
> full
> bladder- might as well just go home. If there is a line at the
> port-o-john or your race is already lining up, this can be a huge
> problem.
> If the situation was like this, I might sympathize with this guy. Bike
> racing is fickle enough without criminalizing peeing.
>
> As a country, I would bet that bodily functions might rank as the #2
> Most
> Feared Life Events, sandwiched between #1, Public Speaking and #3,
> Death.
> Lets just try to be more rational: pee is not toxic and genitalia are
> not
> evil.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
Steve Brown
Steve Brown Company Inc.
6435 SW Parkhill Drive
Portland, Oregon 97239
503.293.1683
503.293.6009f
503.781.3631c
sbrown@stevebrowncompany.com

Jess Mace

or how about getting on your bike, riding a whopping 300 feet over to one of two restrooms...
if Tuesday was anything like Monday there were about 20 HoneyBuckets rigth at the grandstand.
if they were absent, I think "grandparent" rules apply...if you wouldn't do it at your grandparents house, you shouldn't do it in public.
if an event manager was there as oversight for whatever reason, that puts a bad lens on all of OBRA
and I'm sure warnings would ensue. its hypothetical, but possible.
and when it comes down to it, you piss off Candi, your racing future could be jeopardized...
keep it in your pants and can we please put this to rest?

Jess C. Mace
Otolaryngology Clinical and Outcomes Research
Coordinator with Dr. Timothy Smith
Head and Neck Surgery
Oregon Health & Science University
503.494.5886

>>> "Dave German" 6/23/2006 10:48 AM >>>

I'm with Brian. What's the big deal? We all pee. As long as we all don't
pee in the same place, cuz then it gets kinda stinky. Under the stands -
not such a good idea. Behind the dumpster - better idea, still bad. Back
in the corner behind a tree - good idea. Ahhhhhh that fees better.

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:57:23 -0700
From: Moran.Brian@epamail.epa.gov
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Real Men of Genius
To: OBRA list
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This is getting out of hand. Does anyone know the circumstances of this
phantom pee-er? Perhaps he had taken a few hours off work, driven 2 hours
to the race venue, paid his race fee, warmed up and hydrated properly, and
was suddenly faced with the possibility of starting his race with a full
bladder- might as well just go home. If there is a line at the
port-o-john or your race is already lining up, this can be a huge problem.
If the situation was like this, I might sympathize with this guy. Bike
racing is fickle enough without criminalizing peeing.

As a country, I would bet that bodily functions might rank as the #2 Most
Feared Life Events, sandwiched between #1, Public Speaking and #3, Death.
Lets just try to be more rational: pee is not toxic and genitalia are not
evil.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Dan H

I'll say I did it if we can stop this one.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Long, Steve"
To: "Malcolm, Gary" ;
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Real Men of Genius

> Well, all of this would probably just end if the guy would step up to
> the plate and say "I messed up and I won't do that again." It's not that
> hard to do really. I doubt anybody would ridicule a person that was big
> enough to own up to their own mistake.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Malcolm, Gary
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:36 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Real Men of Genius
>
> I think the point is to publicly ridicule the offending rider so as to
> keep our venues and neighbors happy. That's OK... given what's at stake.
>
> But let's avoid the ridiculous moral lambasting and puritanical ethical
> tightness. We have enough over the top sillyness in the world today
> without making peeing a sex crime, irregardless of any individuals
> bizarre hang-ups.
>
>
> Gary
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>

Dave German

I'm with Brian. What's the big deal? We all pee. As long as we all don't
pee in the same place, cuz then it gets kinda stinky. Under the stands -
not such a good idea. Behind the dumpster - better idea, still bad. Back
in the corner behind a tree - good idea. Ahhhhhh that fees better.

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:57:23 -0700
From: Moran.Brian@epamail.epa.gov
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Real Men of Genius
To: OBRA list
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This is getting out of hand. Does anyone know the circumstances of this
phantom pee-er? Perhaps he had taken a few hours off work, driven 2 hours
to the race venue, paid his race fee, warmed up and hydrated properly, and
was suddenly faced with the possibility of starting his race with a full
bladder- might as well just go home. If there is a line at the
port-o-john or your race is already lining up, this can be a huge problem.
If the situation was like this, I might sympathize with this guy. Bike
racing is fickle enough without criminalizing peeing.

As a country, I would bet that bodily functions might rank as the #2 Most
Feared Life Events, sandwiched between #1, Public Speaking and #3, Death.
Lets just try to be more rational: pee is not toxic and genitalia are not
evil.

Long, Steve

Well, all of this would probably just end if the guy would step up to
the plate and say "I messed up and I won't do that again." It's not that
hard to do really. I doubt anybody would ridicule a person that was big
enough to own up to their own mistake.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Malcolm, Gary
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:36 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Real Men of Genius

I think the point is to publicly ridicule the offending rider so as to
keep our venues and neighbors happy. That's OK... given what's at stake.

But let's avoid the ridiculous moral lambasting and puritanical ethical
tightness. We have enough over the top sillyness in the world today
without making peeing a sex crime, irregardless of any individuals
bizarre hang-ups.

Gary
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Malcolm, Gary

I think the point is to publicly ridicule the offending rider so as to keep
our venues and neighbors happy. That's OK... given what's at stake.

But let's avoid the ridiculous moral lambasting and puritanical ethical
tightness. We have enough over the top sillyness in the world today without
making peeing a sex crime, irregardless of any individuals bizarre hang-ups.

Gary

Joe Cipale

If asked nicely, I know that race officals have held up a race if someone
is 'tinkling' in the restroom. This isnt rocket science. It is basic courtesy
and common sense in polite society.

Joe

Adrian Black wrote:

> If you're late enough you can't find 180 seconds to get to any of the
> plentiful toilets at PIR, you're too late to race. Life sucks, carpool
> next time. And at other venues lines might be a problem, but PIR is
> equipped to deal with thousands of race fans & their beverages, so it
> should handle a few incontinent bike dorks pretty easily.
>
> Moran.Brian@epamail.epa.gov wrote:
> >
> > This is getting out of hand. Does anyone know the circumstances of
> > this phantom pee-er? Perhaps he had taken a few hours off work,
> > driven 2 hours to the race venue, paid his race fee, warmed up and
> > hydrated properly, and was suddenly faced with the possibility of
> > starting his race with a full bladder- might as well just go home. If
> > there is a line at the port-o-john or your race is already lining up,
> > this can be a huge problem. If the situation was like this, I might
> > sympathize with this guy. Bike racing is fickle enough without
> > criminalizing peeing.
> >
> > As a country, I would bet that bodily functions might rank as the #2
> > Most Feared Life Events, sandwiched between #1, Public Speaking and
> > #3, Death. Lets just try to be more rational: pee is not toxic and
> > genitalia are not evil.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >
> > Brian Moran
> > GIS Analyst
> > Indus Corporation
> > c/o U.S. EPA NHEERL
> > Western Ecology Division - Corvallis, OR
> > (541) 754-4361
> >
> > moran.brian@epa.gov
> >
> >
> >
> > *Amy Perrin *
> > Sent by: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> >
> > 06/23/2006 09:01 AM
> >
> >
> > To
> > joec@aracnet.com, Dan H
> > cc
> > OBRA list
> > Subject
> > [OBRA Chat] Real Men of Genius
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the promoter of a race
> > have the
> > right to refuse entry to a rider who has a history of unsportsmanlike
> > conduct? I would suggest the promoter inform Team Genius rider #8--
> > that he
> > is no longer welcome to participate at that venue.
> >
> > Pissing in public is not cool, but then the guys who do it don't/can't
> > read
> > this anyway.
> >
> > Doug Perrin.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe Cipale"
> > To: "Dan H"
> > Cc: "OBRA list"
> > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 8:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
> >
> >
> > > Please...
> > >
> > > What is at issues is the fact that this rider chose to ignore the
> > various
> > > restroom facilites that were within riding distance (a bike can be used
> > > for
> > > things OTHER than racing...).
> > >
> > > Peeing in the woods is one thing. Peeing in public when there is a
> > > restroom
> > > within spitting distance is another.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > Dan H wrote:
> > >
> > >> I've seen lots of peeing from the bike in real life (roll up window
> > fast)
> > >> and have participated in mass "pit stops".
> > >> The entire issue is one of discretion. If a racer pees in the
> > woods and
> > >> there is no one to hear it, did it really happen?
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "david baker"
> > >> To: "Michael O'Hair" ;
> > >> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:38 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > If a new rule is made it needs to be very clear because there are
> > some
> > >> > grey
> > >> > areas I belive. It sure makes sense not to pee in front of other
> > people
> > >> > and
> > >> > when facilities are present(even if you have to wait in line).
> > >> > But don't road riders pee during a race on the side of a road? I
> > really
> > >> > do
> > >> > not know but I see it on tv.
> > >> > I do know and believe it is ok to pee of the trail in a mountain bike
> > >> > race,
> > >> > and there have been circumstances where there is a nuetral start that
> > >> > leads
> > >> > to the official start where we wait for a while but there are no
> > >> > facilities
> > >> > and it is a remote area so it seemed ok to me at the time.
> > >> > just some thoughts...
> > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > From: "Michael O'Hair"
> > >> > To:
> > >> > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 5:03 PM
> > >> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> Let's make one thing very clear. Taking a leak in public is not
> > only
> > >> >> bad
> > >> >> manners, it's a crime. I once watched a guy cop a plea to public
> > >> >> urination
> > >> >> and indecent exposure. He obviously thought: "I was drunk. I
> > took a
> > >> >> leak.
> > >> >> No big deal." Wrong. He had a morals charge on his record. He
> > went
> > >> >> on
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> books as a "weenie wagger" and it will follow him for life.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Taking a leak at PIR under the bleachers takes that up a notch.
> > There
> > >> >> are
> > >> >> frequently children present. Get a parent upset enough and you
> > will
> > >> >> be
> > >> >> talking to the police. I'm sure the OBRA members who work in law
> > >> >> enforcement can describe the process from there.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The only way to stop this nonsense is to make the punishment severe
> > >> >> enough
> > >> >> to grab everyone's attention. Suspending an entire team for the
> > >> >> actions
> > >> >> of
> > >> >> one member is draconian but may be enough to modify behavior.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> OBRA mailing list
> > >> >> obra@list.obra.org
> > >> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > OBRA mailing list
> > >> > obra@list.obra.org
> > >> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> OBRA mailing list
> > >> obra@list.obra.org
> > >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Adrian Black

If you're late enough you can't find 180 seconds to get to any of the
plentiful toilets at PIR, you're too late to race. Life sucks, carpool
next time. And at other venues lines might be a problem, but PIR is
equipped to deal with thousands of race fans & their beverages, so it
should handle a few incontinent bike dorks pretty easily.

Moran.Brian@epamail.epa.gov wrote:
>
> This is getting out of hand. Does anyone know the circumstances of
> this phantom pee-er? Perhaps he had taken a few hours off work,
> driven 2 hours to the race venue, paid his race fee, warmed up and
> hydrated properly, and was suddenly faced with the possibility of
> starting his race with a full bladder- might as well just go home. If
> there is a line at the port-o-john or your race is already lining up,
> this can be a huge problem. If the situation was like this, I might
> sympathize with this guy. Bike racing is fickle enough without
> criminalizing peeing.
>
> As a country, I would bet that bodily functions might rank as the #2
> Most Feared Life Events, sandwiched between #1, Public Speaking and
> #3, Death. Lets just try to be more rational: pee is not toxic and
> genitalia are not evil.
>
>
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Brian Moran
> GIS Analyst
> Indus Corporation
> c/o U.S. EPA NHEERL
> Western Ecology Division - Corvallis, OR
> (541) 754-4361
>
> moran.brian@epa.gov
>
>
>
> *Amy Perrin *
> Sent by: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>
> 06/23/2006 09:01 AM
>
>
> To
> joec@aracnet.com, Dan H
> cc
> OBRA list
> Subject
> [OBRA Chat] Real Men of Genius
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the promoter of a race
> have the
> right to refuse entry to a rider who has a history of unsportsmanlike
> conduct? I would suggest the promoter inform Team Genius rider #8--
> that he
> is no longer welcome to participate at that venue.
>
> Pissing in public is not cool, but then the guys who do it don't/can't
> read
> this anyway.
>
> Doug Perrin.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Cipale"
> To: "Dan H"
> Cc: "OBRA list"
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 8:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
>
>
> > Please...
> >
> > What is at issues is the fact that this rider chose to ignore the
> various
> > restroom facilites that were within riding distance (a bike can be used
> > for
> > things OTHER than racing...).
> >
> > Peeing in the woods is one thing. Peeing in public when there is a
> > restroom
> > within spitting distance is another.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > Dan H wrote:
> >
> >> I've seen lots of peeing from the bike in real life (roll up window
> fast)
> >> and have participated in mass "pit stops".
> >> The entire issue is one of discretion. If a racer pees in the
> woods and
> >> there is no one to hear it, did it really happen?
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "david baker"
> >> To: "Michael O'Hair" ;
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:38 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
> >>
> >>
> >> > If a new rule is made it needs to be very clear because there are
> some
> >> > grey
> >> > areas I belive. It sure makes sense not to pee in front of other
> people
> >> > and
> >> > when facilities are present(even if you have to wait in line).
> >> > But don't road riders pee during a race on the side of a road? I
> really
> >> > do
> >> > not know but I see it on tv.
> >> > I do know and believe it is ok to pee of the trail in a mountain bike
> >> > race,
> >> > and there have been circumstances where there is a nuetral start that
> >> > leads
> >> > to the official start where we wait for a while but there are no
> >> > facilities
> >> > and it is a remote area so it seemed ok to me at the time.
> >> > just some thoughts...
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Michael O'Hair"
> >> > To:
> >> > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 5:03 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Let's make one thing very clear. Taking a leak in public is not
> only
> >> >> bad
> >> >> manners, it's a crime. I once watched a guy cop a plea to public
> >> >> urination
> >> >> and indecent exposure. He obviously thought: "I was drunk. I
> took a
> >> >> leak.
> >> >> No big deal." Wrong. He had a morals charge on his record. He
> went
> >> >> on
> >> >> the
> >> >> books as a "weenie wagger" and it will follow him for life.
> >> >>
> >> >> Taking a leak at PIR under the bleachers takes that up a notch.
> There
> >> >> are
> >> >> frequently children present. Get a parent upset enough and you
> will
> >> >> be
> >> >> talking to the police. I'm sure the OBRA members who work in law
> >> >> enforcement can describe the process from there.
> >> >>
> >> >> The only way to stop this nonsense is to make the punishment severe
> >> >> enough
> >> >> to grab everyone's attention. Suspending an entire team for the
> >> >> actions
> >> >> of
> >> >> one member is draconian but may be enough to modify behavior.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > OBRA mailing list
> >> > obra@list.obra.org
> >> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

John Lombard

Isn't the bottom line that this is an action that could have a negative impact
on the ability to have future races? I don't think it is about any one person's
needs or special circumstances. There is no excuse. If you want to do things
like this, don't do it as a representitive of all of the members of OBRA. If you
are so special that your needs are above those of the group, then maybe you
don't need a license and the priveledge to race.

-John

Quoting Moran.Brian@epamail.epa.gov:

> This is getting out of hand. Does anyone know the circumstances of this
> phantom pee-er? Perhaps he had taken a few hours off work, driven 2 hours
> to the race venue, paid his race fee, warmed up and hydrated properly, and
> was suddenly faced with the possibility of starting his race with a full
> bladder- might as well just go home. If there is a line at the
> port-o-john or your race is already lining up, this can be a huge problem.
> If the situation was like this, I might sympathize with this guy. Bike
> racing is fickle enough without criminalizing peeing.
>
> As a country, I would bet that bodily functions might rank as the #2 Most
> Feared Life Events, sandwiched between #1, Public Speaking and #3, Death.
> Lets just try to be more rational: pee is not toxic and genitalia are not
> evil.
>
>
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Brian Moran
> GIS Analyst
> Indus Corporation
> c/o U.S. EPA NHEERL
> Western Ecology Division - Corvallis, OR
> (541) 754-4361
>
> moran.brian@epa.gov
>
>
>
>
> Amy Perrin
> Sent by: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> 06/23/2006 09:01 AM
>
> To
> joec@aracnet.com, Dan H
> cc
> OBRA list
> Subject
> [OBRA Chat] Real Men of Genius
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the promoter of a race have
> the
> right to refuse entry to a rider who has a history of unsportsmanlike
> conduct? I would suggest the promoter inform Team Genius rider #8-- that
> he
> is no longer welcome to participate at that venue.
>
> Pissing in public is not cool, but then the guys who do it don't/can't
> read
> this anyway.
>
> Doug Perrin.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Cipale"
> To: "Dan H"
> Cc: "OBRA list"
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 8:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
>
>
> > Please...
> >
> > What is at issues is the fact that this rider chose to ignore the
> various
> > restroom facilites that were within riding distance (a bike can be used
> > for
> > things OTHER than racing...).
> >
> > Peeing in the woods is one thing. Peeing in public when there is a
> > restroom
> > within spitting distance is another.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > Dan H wrote:
> >
> >> I've seen lots of peeing from the bike in real life (roll up window
> fast)
> >> and have participated in mass "pit stops".
> >> The entire issue is one of discretion. If a racer pees in the woods
> and
> >> there is no one to hear it, did it really happen?
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "david baker"
> >> To: "Michael O'Hair" ;
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:38 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
> >>
> >>
> >> > If a new rule is made it needs to be very clear because there are
> some
> >> > grey
> >> > areas I belive. It sure makes sense not to pee in front of other
> people
> >> > and
> >> > when facilities are present(even if you have to wait in line).
> >> > But don't road riders pee during a race on the side of a road? I
> really
> >> > do
> >> > not know but I see it on tv.
> >> > I do know and believe it is ok to pee of the trail in a mountain bike
> >> > race,
> >> > and there have been circumstances where there is a nuetral start that
> >> > leads
> >> > to the official start where we wait for a while but there are no
> >> > facilities
> >> > and it is a remote area so it seemed ok to me at the time.
> >> > just some thoughts...
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Michael O'Hair"
> >> > To:
> >> > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 5:03 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Let's make one thing very clear. Taking a leak in public is not
> only
> >> >> bad
> >> >> manners, it's a crime. I once watched a guy cop a plea to public
> >> >> urination
> >> >> and indecent exposure. He obviously thought: "I was drunk. I took
> a
> >> >> leak.
> >> >> No big deal." Wrong. He had a morals charge on his record. He
> went
> >> >> on
> >> >> the
> >> >> books as a "weenie wagger" and it will follow him for life.
> >> >>
> >> >> Taking a leak at PIR under the bleachers takes that up a notch.
> There
> >> >> are
> >> >> frequently children present. Get a parent upset enough and you will
>
> >> >> be
> >> >> talking to the police. I'm sure the OBRA members who work in law
> >> >> enforcement can describe the process from there.
> >> >>
> >> >> The only way to stop this nonsense is to make the punishment severe
> >> >> enough
> >> >> to grab everyone's attention. Suspending an entire team for the
> >> >> actions
> >> >> of
> >> >> one member is draconian but may be enough to modify behavior.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > OBRA mailing list
> >> > obra@list.obra.org
> >> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Moran.Brian@epamail.epa.gov

This is getting out of hand. Does anyone know the circumstances of this
phantom pee-er? Perhaps he had taken a few hours off work, driven 2 hours
to the race venue, paid his race fee, warmed up and hydrated properly, and
was suddenly faced with the possibility of starting his race with a full
bladder- might as well just go home. If there is a line at the
port-o-john or your race is already lining up, this can be a huge problem.
If the situation was like this, I might sympathize with this guy. Bike
racing is fickle enough without criminalizing peeing.

As a country, I would bet that bodily functions might rank as the #2 Most
Feared Life Events, sandwiched between #1, Public Speaking and #3, Death.
Lets just try to be more rational: pee is not toxic and genitalia are not
evil.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Brian Moran
GIS Analyst
Indus Corporation
c/o U.S. EPA NHEERL
Western Ecology Division - Corvallis, OR
(541) 754-4361

moran.brian@epa.gov

Amy Perrin
Sent by: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
06/23/2006 09:01 AM

To
joec@aracnet.com, Dan H
cc
OBRA list
Subject
[OBRA Chat] Real Men of Genius

Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the promoter of a race have
the
right to refuse entry to a rider who has a history of unsportsmanlike
conduct? I would suggest the promoter inform Team Genius rider #8-- that
he
is no longer welcome to participate at that venue.

Pissing in public is not cool, but then the guys who do it don't/can't
read
this anyway.

Doug Perrin.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Cipale"
To: "Dan H"
Cc: "OBRA list"
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion

> Please...
>
> What is at issues is the fact that this rider chose to ignore the
various
> restroom facilites that were within riding distance (a bike can be used
> for
> things OTHER than racing...).
>
> Peeing in the woods is one thing. Peeing in public when there is a
> restroom
> within spitting distance is another.
>
> Joe
>
> Dan H wrote:
>
>> I've seen lots of peeing from the bike in real life (roll up window
fast)
>> and have participated in mass "pit stops".
>> The entire issue is one of discretion. If a racer pees in the woods
and
>> there is no one to hear it, did it really happen?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "david baker"
>> To: "Michael O'Hair" ;
>> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
>>
>>
>> > If a new rule is made it needs to be very clear because there are
some
>> > grey
>> > areas I belive. It sure makes sense not to pee in front of other
people
>> > and
>> > when facilities are present(even if you have to wait in line).
>> > But don't road riders pee during a race on the side of a road? I
really
>> > do
>> > not know but I see it on tv.
>> > I do know and believe it is ok to pee of the trail in a mountain bike
>> > race,
>> > and there have been circumstances where there is a nuetral start that
>> > leads
>> > to the official start where we wait for a while but there are no
>> > facilities
>> > and it is a remote area so it seemed ok to me at the time.
>> > just some thoughts...
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Michael O'Hair"
>> > To:
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 5:03 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
>> >
>> >
>> >> Let's make one thing very clear. Taking a leak in public is not
only
>> >> bad
>> >> manners, it's a crime. I once watched a guy cop a plea to public
>> >> urination
>> >> and indecent exposure. He obviously thought: "I was drunk. I took
a
>> >> leak.
>> >> No big deal." Wrong. He had a morals charge on his record. He
went
>> >> on
>> >> the
>> >> books as a "weenie wagger" and it will follow him for life.
>> >>
>> >> Taking a leak at PIR under the bleachers takes that up a notch.
There
>> >> are
>> >> frequently children present. Get a parent upset enough and you will

>> >> be
>> >> talking to the police. I'm sure the OBRA members who work in law
>> >> enforcement can describe the process from there.
>> >>
>> >> The only way to stop this nonsense is to make the punishment severe
>> >> enough
>> >> to grab everyone's attention. Suspending an entire team for the
>> >> actions
>> >> of
>> >> one member is draconian but may be enough to modify behavior.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> OBRA mailing list
>> >> obra@list.obra.org
>> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Amy Perrin

Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the promoter of a race have the
right to refuse entry to a rider who has a history of unsportsmanlike
conduct? I would suggest the promoter inform Team Genius rider #8-- that he
is no longer welcome to participate at that venue.

Pissing in public is not cool, but then the guys who do it don't/can't read
this anyway.

Doug Perrin.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Cipale"
To: "Dan H"
Cc: "OBRA list"
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion

> Please...
>
> What is at issues is the fact that this rider chose to ignore the various
> restroom facilites that were within riding distance (a bike can be used
> for
> things OTHER than racing...).
>
> Peeing in the woods is one thing. Peeing in public when there is a
> restroom
> within spitting distance is another.
>
> Joe
>
> Dan H wrote:
>
>> I've seen lots of peeing from the bike in real life (roll up window fast)
>> and have participated in mass "pit stops".
>> The entire issue is one of discretion. If a racer pees in the woods and
>> there is no one to hear it, did it really happen?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "david baker"
>> To: "Michael O'Hair" ;
>> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
>>
>>
>> > If a new rule is made it needs to be very clear because there are some
>> > grey
>> > areas I belive. It sure makes sense not to pee in front of other people
>> > and
>> > when facilities are present(even if you have to wait in line).
>> > But don't road riders pee during a race on the side of a road? I really
>> > do
>> > not know but I see it on tv.
>> > I do know and believe it is ok to pee of the trail in a mountain bike
>> > race,
>> > and there have been circumstances where there is a nuetral start that
>> > leads
>> > to the official start where we wait for a while but there are no
>> > facilities
>> > and it is a remote area so it seemed ok to me at the time.
>> > just some thoughts...
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Michael O'Hair"
>> > To:
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 5:03 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] - Public Uriantion
>> >
>> >
>> >> Let's make one thing very clear. Taking a leak in public is not only
>> >> bad
>> >> manners, it's a crime. I once watched a guy cop a plea to public
>> >> urination
>> >> and indecent exposure. He obviously thought: "I was drunk. I took a
>> >> leak.
>> >> No big deal." Wrong. He had a morals charge on his record. He went
>> >> on
>> >> the
>> >> books as a "weenie wagger" and it will follow him for life.
>> >>
>> >> Taking a leak at PIR under the bleachers takes that up a notch. There
>> >> are
>> >> frequently children present. Get a parent upset enough and you will
>> >> be
>> >> talking to the police. I'm sure the OBRA members who work in law
>> >> enforcement can describe the process from there.
>> >>
>> >> The only way to stop this nonsense is to make the punishment severe
>> >> enough
>> >> to grab everyone's attention. Suspending an entire team for the
>> >> actions
>> >> of
>> >> one member is draconian but may be enough to modify behavior.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> OBRA mailing list
>> >> obra@list.obra.org
>> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>