Dan H

I have no opinion on that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "GEORGE SCHRECK"
To: ;
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] bias and dislike

>A little more humor and less venom would be welcome. All common sense
> does not reside with the confines of your skull, so try to respect
> other people's opinions that do not agree with yours. This is not a
> comment on urination as I agree the topic is overdone.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: erikv@fusium.com
> Date: 06/26/2006 3:01 PM
> To:
> Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] bias and dislike
>
> WTF? You implied there was no difference. Just be quiet if you can't
> make
> sense. The topic's dead. Let it rest in peace.
>
> -Erik
>
>
>> Before any more "piling on" takes place...
>>
>> READ MY DISCLAIMER!!!!
>>
>> IT WAS AN "OBSERVATION", NOT AN AN OPINION......
>>
>> I have not, and will not, give "my opinion" on this matter...
>>
>> FYI: I was one of the 50......
>
>
>
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>
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>
>

Erik Voldengen

Yes, agreed. I was overly cranky. Sorry all.

-Erik

> A little more humor and less venom would be welcome. All common sense
> does not reside with the confines of your skull, so try to respect
> other people's opinions that do not agree with yours. This is not a
> comment on urination as I agree the topic is overdone.

GEORGE SCHRECK

A little more humor and less venom would be welcome. All common sense
does not reside with the confines of your skull, so try to respect
other people's opinions that do not agree with yours. This is not a
comment on urination as I agree the topic is overdone.

----Original Message----
From: erikv@fusium.com
Date: 06/26/2006 3:01 PM
To:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] bias and dislike

WTF? You implied there was no difference. Just be quiet if you can't
make
sense. The topic's dead. Let it rest in peace.

-Erik

> Before any more "piling on" takes place...
>
> READ MY DISCLAIMER!!!!
>
> IT WAS AN "OBSERVATION", NOT AN AN OPINION......
>
> I have not, and will not, give "my opinion" on this matter...
>
> FYI: I was one of the 50......

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Erik Voldengen

WTF? You implied there was no difference. Just be quiet if you can't make
sense. The topic's dead. Let it rest in peace.

-Erik

> Before any more "piling on" takes place...
>
> READ MY DISCLAIMER!!!!
>
> IT WAS AN "OBSERVATION", NOT AN AN OPINION......
>
> I have not, and will not, give "my opinion" on this matter...
>
> FYI: I was one of the 50......

Steven R Holland

Before any more "piling on" takes place...

READ MY DISCLAIMER!!!!

IT WAS AN "OBSERVATION", NOT AN AN OPINION......

I have not, and will not, give "my opinion" on this matter...

FYI: I was one of the 50......

STEVEN R HOLLAND
17203 SE 30th St.
VANCOUVER,WA 98683-2300
H-360-891-3924 C-503-780-7296
___0
\ \~
( )/ ( )
"Losing feels worse than winning feels good"

Candi Murray

Steve
You really do not see a difference between urinating at a public venue with
many available facilities to stopping alongside a rural road away from the
public and no facilities?
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Steven R Holland
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 2:18 PM
To: anne walker
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] bias and dislike

Anne,

I have been a subscriber to OBRA chat from inception and have read
"most" postings.

Your e-mail was "BY FAR" the BEST one I have ever read.........

[We have way to many "haters" on this list. For some reason people on
this list tend to "pile on"......kinda like a "mob" or "crowd" mentality
I guess.....sad]

The following is JUST an observation...NOT an OPINION either way:

One male racer pees while hiding behind a dumpster.....all hell breaks
loose.

~50 male cyclists stop during the last stage at Elkhorn yesterday and
pee in full view of a public road........no one says a word???

STEVEN R HOLLAND
17203 SE 30th St.
VANCOUVER,WA 98683-2300
H-360-891-3924 C-503-780-7296
___0
\ \~
( )/ ( )
"Losing feels worse than winning feels good"

Craig Austin

Were those 50 male cyclists less than 30 seconds by foot from public
restrooms? Because PIR has several portapotties and two permanent
restrooms. There is a difference between a group potty break several
miles out of town and the dumpster behind the grandstands at PIR. We
lost Lake Oswego Jr. High because one of the racers peed against the
building, out of public view but unfortunately not out of the view of
the several teachers who were inside the classroom he peed against. He
was also less than a minute from several unoccupied honey pots.

I'll wager that next time one of us is tempted to ignore the provided
restroom facilities, we'll think twice, mostly because of the piling on
that has occurred here. Had the racer in question been quietly
disciplined offline, I doubt the effect would have been the same.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Steven R Holland
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 2:18 PM
To: anne walker
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] bias and dislike

Anne,

I have been a subscriber to OBRA chat from inception and have read
"most" postings.

Your e-mail was "BY FAR" the BEST one I have ever read.........

[We have way to many "haters" on this list. For some reason people on
this list tend to "pile on"......kinda like a "mob" or "crowd" mentality
I guess.....sad]

The following is JUST an observation...NOT an OPINION either way:

One male racer pees while hiding behind a dumpster.....all hell breaks
loose.

~50 male cyclists stop during the last stage at Elkhorn yesterday and
pee in full view of a public road........no one says a word???

STEVEN R HOLLAND
17203 SE 30th St.
VANCOUVER,WA 98683-2300
H-360-891-3924 C-503-780-7296
___0
\ \~
( )/ ( )
"Losing feels worse than winning feels good"

Steven R Holland

Anne,

I have been a subscriber to OBRA chat from inception and have read
"most" postings.

Your e-mail was "BY FAR" the BEST one I have ever read.........

[We have way to many "haters" on this list. For some reason people on
this list tend to "pile on"......kinda like a "mob" or "crowd" mentality
I guess.....sad]

The following is JUST an observation...NOT an OPINION either way:

One male racer pees while hiding behind a dumpster.....all hell breaks
loose.

~50 male cyclists stop during the last stage at Elkhorn yesterday and
pee in full view of a public road........no one says a word???

STEVEN R HOLLAND
17203 SE 30th St.
VANCOUVER,WA 98683-2300
H-360-891-3924 C-503-780-7296
___0
\ \~
( )/ ( )
"Losing feels worse than winning feels good"

anne walker

I know everyone wants to put this matter to rest and hopefully it has been. I would like to make a comment however, as to my observation of the immaturity and obvious bias and personal dislike for a member or members of the Team Guinness, which is at the very core of all of the ridiculous comments made by grown men (who have certainly all taken public relief at some point in their lives, albeit I'm sure always with the best of intentions to remain out of view of others) and the personal attacks in general. The comment, "but then the guys who do it don't/can't read this anyway"--what is this comment accomplishing? If you have a personal issue with a certain person, take that up with the person rather than jump on a bandwagon and make irrational generalizations that make you look immature and ridiculous in a public forum. It is very obvious that the facts of the situation have completely been overlooked, including the fact that many of you (in all colors and sponsored jerse
ys) have taken last minute relief at the starting point of a race, when you just didn't have time, or couldn't immediately get to the facility, or thought you were out of view. I was at PIR as a spectator and supporter on the night of this situation; I observed the rider at the last minute sprint to the BACK of the dumpster (because my car was parked right in front of the dumpster), face away from the grandstands and toward the woods, with his back the only thing that could be seen. Now we are all adults and realize that if you see someone (usually men, since it is a bit more obvious if we women try to do this discretely) standing next to a dumpster, facing away from the crowd, not moving and not watching whatever is going on, that the person is probably taking a pee, throwing up, or just reflecting... In this instance, instead of just making that assumption and not worrying about it (because it WAS done discretely), obviously the person complaining has a personal issue w
ith either Team Guinness, or someone in particular on the team. Take your personal vendettas elsewhere--what a silly issue to have made of this (and not even willing to put your name out there publicly), and how it has fueled other silly vendettas. Get on your bikes ladies and gentlemen, and compete like adults rather than try to "take out your opponents with silly accusations and vendettas."
I am an ardent fan and supporter of bike racing and attend most races in and around Oregon; I have witnessed many incidents of last minute urination; I am neither offended or appalled as I realize the person is not trying to offend or appall, rather wanting to be comfortable at the start of a long day. I observed, as I was walking my dog at the start venue of the District Road Race (a public school), a rider from a team other than Team Guinness, stand beside the building in front of which sat a row of porta-potties, and pee, and then change clothes completely baring his bottom in the process. I merely turned away and gave him his privacy. I have observed many of you change clothes next to your cars, baring your butts. I realize your intention is not to be lewd or indecent. I can certainly, as a mature adult, look the other way and give you the privacy you need to dress and get ready for your bike race. I am also a racer, on two feet rather than two wheels, but have also
found myself in dire straights at the beginning of a race needing to find a quick spot to find relief...it happens, use discretion...and the person in question in this situation did use discretion.
The real issue in this matter is the reporting person's obvious personal dislike for Team Guinness or someone on the team, not the perceived public urination. All of you who jumped on this have also obviously expressed your own personal vendettas for the team, without benefit of knowing the actual facts of the situation. Are you here to act like children and point fingers, or are you here to ride your bikes? Put all that energy and aggression into your racing and leave the rest behind.