john

the frame is fixed. Steel* is real ! It's biggest advantage: fast and easy
repair. (*well i do like my alum cannondale also..)

http://engineersquared.blogspot.com/2011/03/repairing-bicycle-frame.html

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:45 AM, wrote:

> Tye ductility and strength-to-weight ratio of Steel is the primary
> reason I
> ride steel (853) frames. Ti can be be 'sloppy' at the BB and I have
> ridden
> some Carbon frames that are not all that stiff. And DONT get me started
> on
> aluminum! >:(
>
> There IS a reason why 'Steel is Real'.
>
> Joe
>

Chris Alling

Sam

As you will no doubt see by the other emails your frame more than likely can
be repaired. The secondary question is should it be repaired. I had the same
thing happen to my steel bike a couple of years ago and since it had seen 8
years of exclusive use as my winter commuter/training bike and I was sure
that it had surpassed its useful life I decided against the repair. I looked
into the cause of the crack and decided it was from water and figured that
if I got that one fixed there was another one waiting to happen at a worse
time.

I still ride steel in the winter because you can get a fairly inexpensive
frame with clearance for fenders.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Sam Taylor
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 7:41 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Frame Repair

Rode up to work today, bike feeling a bit strange, and (lucky for me) before
I headed home noticed a crack almost all the way around the downtube. Frame
is steel (Salsa Casseroll). After sulking, trying to figure out cost of
getting it repaired/repainted vs. new frame.

So, big honking crack (3/4 circumference of tube, all the way through): can
it be fixed? Does the tube need to be replaced? What $$ am I looking at
with repair/repaint?

Thanks for any advice/help from the eternal wisdom of OBRA.
Sam

PS-> Check your frames, people.
_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

joec@aracnet.com

Tye ductility and strength-to-weight ratio of Steel is the primary
reason I
ride steel (853) frames. Ti can be be 'sloppy' at the BB and I have
ridden
some Carbon frames that are not all that stiff. And DONT get me started
on
aluminum! >:(

There IS a reason why 'Steel is Real'.

Joe

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 08:30:14 -0800, john wrote:
> If the crack is away from the bottom bracket, ie if you have at least
> say a half inch (for a lap joint) this is an easy repair.  Split a
> thin tube, same diameter and "splint" it over the crack.  Silver
> is a must on thin tubing and good flame hand so  steel isn't
> cooked. Should take all of 30-45 minutes, 5-10 minutes if all the
> proper cleaning and repair splint is done beforehand. 
>  
> You don't need a new tube (if you have enough room to do this lap
> joint..)   Cracks almost alway grow from some sort of stress
> concentration spot.  It doesn't mean the whole tube is bad, just a
> bad spot on that tube.. (unless you have extensive rust damage..)  
> Yes it is true framebuilders rarely take advantage of the main
> positive of steel, easy repairability. 
>  
>  send me pic.  
>  
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Mike Kerkmann wrote:
>
> I am posting this so that anyone interested may glean something
> worthwhile from it...
>
> I won't claim to be an expert (I am a hobbyist level framebuilder and
> have spent a couple of years in school learning the ins and outs of
> metal fab work), but I do know enough about about both metal working,
> and framebuilding that I will tell you that the best form of repair
> will be replacing the tube.  Welding or patching the tube quite often
> will lead to a failure in the same general area due to embrittlement
> of the surrounding material.
>
> If possible, see about warranty or crash replacement deal.
>
> Repair will likely be in the $200-500 range.  Broken down, paint is
> generally $100, the tube, another $25-50, the labor to remove the
> broken bits and prep the frame, miter the new tube, weld or braze it
> in, and post weld/braze clean-up make up the difference.
>
> If you opt for the repair route, you may bring the cost down a little
> by removing the broken tube and getting the head tube and BB cleaned
> up on your own, but let the person doing the repair determine if that
> is an option before you go hacking away at it.  Even so, I doubt you
> can get it done for less than $200. 
>
> Don't take it to a general welding/fab shop without bike frame
> experience, there are a lot of stresses and strains contained in those
> thin walled tubes that they may poo-poo as inconsequential (if that
> were the case, it wouldn't have broken in the first place, eh?).
>
> Be prepared for the bike to ride differently after the repair too. 
> The different tube may affect the stiffness of the frame, and the
> geometry may change a little as well (angles within 1/2 a degree and
> tube lengths within a 10th of a millimeter are not easy to reproduce
> from a broken frame).
>
> Cheers, Mike
>
> --- On MON, 3/7/11, SAM TAYLOR __ wrote:
>
> From: Sam Taylor
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Frame Repair
> To: obra@list.obra.org [3]
> Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 7:41 PM
>
> Rode up to work today, bike feeling a bit strange, and (lucky for me)
> before I headed home noticed a crack almost all the way around the
> downtube.  Frame is steel (Salsa Casseroll).  After sulking, trying
> to figure out cost of getting it repaired/repainted vs. new frame.
>
> So, big honking crack (3/4 circumference of tube, all the way
> through): can it be fixed?  Does the tube need to be replaced?  What
> $$ am I looking at with repair/repaint?
>
> Thanks for any advice/help from the eternal wisdom of OBRA.
> Sam
>
> PS-> Check your frames, people.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org [4]
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra [5]
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org [6]
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org [7]
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra [8]
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org [9]

john

If the crack is away from the bottom bracket, ie if you have at least say a
half inch (for a lap joint) this is an easy repair. Split a thin tube, same
diameter and "splint" it over the crack. Silver is a must on thin tubing
and good flame hand so steel isn't cooked. Should take all of 30-45
minutes, 5-10 minutes if all the proper cleaning and repair splint is done
beforehand.

You don't need a new tube (if you have enough room to do this lap joint..)
Cracks almost alway grow from some sort of stress concentration spot. It
doesn't mean the whole tube is bad, just a bad spot on that tube.. (unless
you have extensive rust damage..) Yes it is true framebuilders rarely take
advantage of the main positive of steel, easy repairability.

send me pic.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Mike Kerkmann wrote:

> I am posting this so that anyone interested may glean something
> worthwhile from it...
>
> I won't claim to be an expert (I am a hobbyist level framebuilder and have
> spent a couple of years in school learning the ins and outs of metal fab
> work), but I do know enough about about both metal working, and
> framebuilding that I will tell you that the best form of repair will be
> replacing the tube. Welding or patching the tube quite often will lead to a
> failure in the same general area due to embrittlement of the surrounding
> material.
>
> If possible, see about warranty or crash replacement deal.
>
> Repair will likely be in the $200-500 range. Broken down, paint is
> generally $100, the tube, another $25-50, the labor to remove the broken
> bits and prep the frame, miter the new tube, weld or braze it in, and post
> weld/braze clean-up make up the difference.
>
> If you opt for the repair route, you may bring the cost down a little by
> removing the broken tube and getting the head tube and BB cleaned up on your
> own, but let the person doing the repair determine if that is an option before
> you go hacking away at it. Even so, I doubt you can get it done for less
> than $200.
>
> Don't take it to a general welding/fab shop without bike frame experience,
> there are a lot of stresses and strains contained in those thin walled tubes
> that they may poo-poo as inconsequential (if that were the case, it wouldn't
> have broken in the first place, eh?).
>
> Be prepared for the bike to ride differently after the repair too. The
> different tube may affect the stiffness of the frame, and the geometry may
> change a little as well (angles within 1/2 a degree and tube lengths within
> a 10th of a millimeter are not easy to reproduce from a broken frame).
>
> Cheers, Mike
>
> --- On *Mon, 3/7/11, Sam Taylor * wrote:
>
>
> From: Sam Taylor
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Frame Repair
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 7:41 PM
>
>
> Rode up to work today, bike feeling a bit strange, and (lucky for me)
> before I headed home noticed a crack almost all the way around the
> downtube. Frame is steel (Salsa Casseroll). After sulking, trying to
> figure out cost of getting it repaired/repainted vs. new frame.
>
> So, big honking crack (3/4 circumference of tube, all the way through): can
> it be fixed? Does the tube need to be replaced? What $$ am I looking at
> with repair/repaint?
>
> Thanks for any advice/help from the eternal wisdom of OBRA.
> Sam
>
> PS-> Check your frames, people.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
jms, pe pdx, or
http://bikeeng.blogspot.com/

Mike Kerkmann

I am posting this so that anyone interested may glean something worthwhile from it...

I won't claim to be an expert (I am a hobbyist level framebuilder and have spent a couple of years in school learning the ins and outs of metal fab work), but I do know enough about about both metal working, and framebuilding that I will tell you that the best form of repair will be replacing the tube.  Welding or patching the tube quite often will lead to a failure in the same general area due to embrittlement of the surrounding material.

If possible, see about warranty or crash replacement deal.

Repair will likely be in the $200-500 range.  Broken down, paint is generally $100, the tube, another $25-50, the labor to remove the broken bits and prep the frame, miter the new tube, weld or braze it in, and post weld/braze clean-up make up the difference.

If you opt for the repair route, you may bring the cost down a little by removing the broken tube and getting the head tube and BB cleaned up on your own, but let the person doing the repair determine if that is an option before you go hacking away at it.  Even so, I doubt you can get it done for less than $200. 

Don't take it to a general welding/fab shop without bike frame experience, there are a lot of stresses and strains contained in those thin walled tubes that they may poo-poo as inconsequential (if that were the case, it wouldn't have broken in the first place, eh?).

Be prepared for the bike to ride differently after the repair too.  The different tube may affect the stiffness of the frame, and the geometry may change a little as well (angles within 1/2 a degree and tube lengths within a 10th of a millimeter are not easy to reproduce from a broken frame).

Cheers, Mike

--- On Mon, 3/7/11, Sam Taylor wrote:

From: Sam Taylor
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Frame Repair
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 7:41 PM

Rode up to work today, bike feeling a bit strange, and (lucky for me) before I headed home noticed a crack almost all the way around the downtube.  Frame is steel (Salsa Casseroll).  After sulking, trying to figure out cost of getting it repaired/repainted vs. new frame.

So, big honking crack (3/4 circumference of tube, all the way through): can it be fixed?  Does the tube need to be replaced?  What $$ am I looking at with repair/repaint?

Thanks for any advice/help from the eternal wisdom of OBRA.
Sam

PS-> Check your frames, people.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Sam Taylor

Rode up to work today, bike feeling a bit strange, and (lucky for me) before I headed home noticed a crack almost all the way around the downtube. Frame is steel (Salsa Casseroll). After sulking, trying to figure out cost of getting it repaired/repainted vs. new frame.

So, big honking crack (3/4 circumference of tube, all the way through): can it be fixed? Does the tube need to be replaced? What $$ am I looking at with repair/repaint?

Thanks for any advice/help from the eternal wisdom of OBRA.
Sam

PS-> Check your frames, people.

Mike Sheppard

I have a steel frame that is in good condition, but the rear dropout on the
drive side is broken just before it goes into the chain stay.

Are there any aspiring frame builders out there who would be interested in
trying to fix this for me? I don't really care what it looks like.

You can see a picture of it here: http://www.pacifier.com/~mshep/Gitane.jpg

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

Mike

john

i finally got a couple pictures up on my blog of the repair:
http://twotiretinker.eponym.com/blog/_archives/2006/9/18/2338108.html
steel is great stuff.

".David.Auker." wrote:
A follow-up on my steel frame's rehab:

John at twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com did the repair, and today was my
maiden voyage. The ride is as sweet as ever, and John even made the
repair look good. I just wanted to throw some recognition his way, and
recommend his torch 'n braze, should your steel steel ever come apart!

Thanks,

David

(Hi, Jim!)

.David.Auker. wrote:

>My steel rain bike of old just got "older!" The seat tube has pulled
>away from the bottom bracket, taking some of the bb lug. I'd like to
>have it repaired, something simple like a sleeved reinforcement. I'm
>not interested in the cosmetics, just the function. Any suggestions on
>where to have this done?
>
>How'd I find out it was broken? It made a very interesting clunking
>when I got out of the saddle...
>
>Thanks,
>
>David
>SW Portland
>_______________________________________________
>
>

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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

.David.Auker.

A follow-up on my steel frame's rehab:

John at twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com did the repair, and today was my
maiden voyage. The ride is as sweet as ever, and John even made the
repair look good. I just wanted to throw some recognition his way, and
recommend his torch 'n braze, should your steel steel ever come apart!

Thanks,

David

(Hi, Jim!)

.David.Auker. wrote:

>My steel rain bike of old just got "older!" The seat tube has pulled
>away from the bottom bracket, taking some of the bb lug. I'd like to
>have it repaired, something simple like a sleeved reinforcement. I'm
>not interested in the cosmetics, just the function. Any suggestions on
>where to have this done?
>
>How'd I find out it was broken? It made a very interesting clunking
>when I got out of the saddle...
>
>Thanks,
>
>David
>SW Portland
>_______________________________________________
>
>

.David.Auker.

My steel rain bike of old just got "older!" The seat tube has pulled
away from the bottom bracket, taking some of the bb lug. I'd like to
have it repaired, something simple like a sleeved reinforcement. I'm
not interested in the cosmetics, just the function. Any suggestions on
where to have this done?

How'd I find out it was broken? It made a very interesting clunking
when I got out of the saddle...

Thanks,

David
SW Portland