Is Cross Country racing dying?

Brian Baumann

2006-07-26

I think Craig made a great point about climbing. Incorporating some technical/singletrack climbing is a great way to make xc racing less of a road race, and more interesting in my opinion. Technical climbing is just as vital of a component as technical descending, and it rewards those that have mtb skills and endurance, rather than simply endurance.
I also believe that incorporating a team-based aspect to the series may help to increase participation, especially if teams are limited to the numbers of riders from each category, and if points scored by beginners held the same value as the upper classes. For example, each team would be allowed a certain number of riders from each category (male/female, age, beg/sport/exp). This would encourage teams to find new riders to earn them points in the beginner categories. My uncle is in the WORS series, one of the most popular series in the country, and when I rode with him last month he mentioned that he attends races not just for himself, but for the comraderie with the riders on his team and to try to earn points for his team. He felt it was very important to beat a rival team that they had been going back and forth with for a few years. It was really cool to hear him bragging about his team and how much their success meant to him.
Brian


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Craig Austin

2006-07-26

Five miles on a gravel road isn't mountain biking either. I'm just
saying let's go UP the trail once in awhile. Climbing technical
singletrack is definitely a skill set, too, and is more fun, and harder,
than riding up fire roads all day. The 1992 formula for a cross country
race was a long, grinding dirt road climb followed by a singletrack
descent. Just because it worked back then doesn't mean it's appealing to
new, or even old, riders. My favorite race course was the Coast Hills
Classic, and it consisted of pretty limited fire roads, singletrack up
AND down, and lots of variety. It was plenty hard and lots of fun. Not
every area has that luxury but courses like that would draw more racers,
in my opinion, than raffles and water stations.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of OregonMTB
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 12:37 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?

I agree with Evan--take out the mountains--and it is no longer mountain
biking. Mountain bikers are different than roadies. There I said it.
We do not race to be in a pack for the entire race--nor to win in a
field sprint. Our battles are against ourselves. It's each one of us
against that big mountain--we have to concur it on the climb and then
again on the descent.

With that said--I have raced the OBRA series for 6 years now. I started
at age 28 and I am now 34. To me--the Bend courses are always too easy.
The reason that attendence is always good in Bend--is because plenty of
roadies come out for the races. THAT IS FINE--but we shouldn't try to
'dumb down' all the courses to get maximum participation.

Now generally speaking--I think that OBRA MTB racing is one of the best
organized in the country. It is affordable, too. Local races on the
east coast typically start at $45 each.

--- On Wed 07/26, Craig Austin < austinc@exponent.com > wrote:
From: Craig Austin [mailto: austinc@exponent.com]
To: RCJohnson1@attglobal.net, mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:38:58 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?

Rick, I think you're right on and this is one reason the Bend races
are
still so well-attended. The courses there consist of a wide
variety of
fun trails, not long pure-gravel-road climbs that are
there simply to
stretch the field out. It's not just the climbing,
it's the boredom of a
road climb; races with singletrack climbs are
fun too. I know it's a
challenge to build courses to make races fun
as well as avoiding passing
problems but I think that fun courses
would bring more racers back.

Craig

-----Original
Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Rick C
Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:30 AM
To:
mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA
Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?

Clearly XC race
participation has declined. Whether it is primarily due
to more
popular and convenient options or more universal factors is a
good
subject
for study. But lets look at the discipline more
specifically. Some of
the current factors against XC racing are:

* Diminishing
local and convenient riding opportunities, leading to-
*
Increased travel costs - for training and racing
* The "skill
factor" (not everybody is cut out for technical and/or
fast MTB
riding)
* Increasing equipment costs (if you really intend to win
anyway -
i.e. carbon frames, etc.)
* Lack of national
level recognition - currently no "Armstrong
effect" for
MTBs
* More family friendly alternatives

Finally there's
one category that the promoters do have some control
over. The
courses. As I understand it the X in XC is short for cross,
meaning
across. Not up/down country racing, but across. If cross
country
skiing was like the current state of local XC mountain bike
racing
everybody would have to summit Mt. Hood before skiing down
Cooper Spur
at breakneck
speed. Is it any wonder that people over thirty, beginners,
and those
weighing more than 150lbs find it difficult and discouraging?
XC
racing is currently nothing more than endurance time trialling
on
slow bikes over difficult terrain. Road racing recognizes there
are
different types of riders with a variety of sprint and climbing
courses
and finishes. If you're smart you can take advantage of
drafting to
mitigate shortcomings in fitness. Groups can work
together to chase down
break-a-way climbers. Not so in MTB. And does
your average cyclo-cross
race start with 500 or 1000 feet (or more)
of elevation gain? Think
about it. Would cross racing be so exciting
if most races had the same
handful of competitors disappear over the
top of a hill not to be seen
again until the end of the race? Not
everyone enjoys, or is good at,
charging up some diabolically steep
grade in the blazing sun with no end
in sight. Nobody wants to admit
it of course, but privately I often hear
it from people who are
otherwise good riders. Whether they don't like
it, aren't built for
it or just don't have the time to train for it
doesn't matter. The
result is they skip the race and look to another
discipline they feel
more competitive in. Or they go do something
entirely different that
they consider more fun.
There, I said it out loud. Blasphemy against
mountain biking. Not
everyone wants to spend most of the race
grunting uphill. Great for
bragging rights of the few, poor for
participation of the many.

Rick



Mike Murray
wrote:

>Although Rick's comments re: inactivity and obesity in
the general
>public is accurate it does not provide much insight
into why XC racing
>participation is dropping off while
participation in other disciplines
>of bike racing is growing. If
inactivity was the answer then you would

>expect that road, track
and CCX racing would be also declining

when it
>is instead growing rapidly.
>
>Mike
Murray
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On

>Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
>Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006
08:47 AM
>To: Randy Dreiling
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org;
obrarace@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country
racing dying?
>
>
>Randy,
>Why couldn't you ask a question
with a simple answer? Like "what is the

>air speed velocity of an
unladen swallow?" Geez, is XC racing dying? I
>say not as such, but
it could slip into a coma if we give up on it.
>Consider the
following.
>
>Modern America is the land of fads - todays out
there, extreme,
>be-part-of-the-happening-scene activity is
tomorrows old news.
>Americans loose interest fast - especially when
there's no national
>heroics involved. Americans crave attention and
always want to win. But

>fewer and fewer kids these days

grow up with any appreciation for hard
>work, and get less and less
active every year. Mom and Dad work on a
>computer all day and the
kids get chauffeured to school. The TV has
>become the nations
babysitter. School athletic programs are cut to save

>money and
obesity sky rockets. No coincidence that our most recent
>sports
hero (who started his career as a MTB racer) grew up with no TV

>busting his ass on a farm. Where will the next one come
from?
>
>What the big picture comes down to is the majority in our
country have
>no appreciation nor desire for true sports
competition. They'll pay
>attention only when someone (an American)
is winning, then switch the
>channel back to NASCAR and have a few
beers. As for mountain bike
>racing, to do it well you have to train
as hard (or harder) as any
>other sport, develop exceptional riding
skills, be willing to get dirty

>and accept a higher risk of
injury. And after all that you'll still get

>beat most of the
time. Factors like drive time, is it a loop course, or

>how long
the race is are just small details. They matter only to the
>people
who have already made the commitment to participate.
>
>As a
promoter you have my sympathy. You're in a situation where there

>are huge factors of which you have no direct control. Maybe the
best
>you can do is ride it out until enough people figure out that
little
>Johnny has diabetes because he's growing up playing video
games instead

>of riding a bike. The decline in XC race
participation is but a symptom

>of a larger disease plaguing our
country. Right now every cycling event

>competes for the same
small group of participants. Cross popularity is
>up so those people
came from some where. You can be sure the vast
>majority aren't new
entries to the sport. It's cannibalism and XC
>racing is on the
menu.
>
>Rather than end this on

a down note I'll try to offer some hope. The
>current crop of kids
may be withering on the vine but we can still look

>to the
future. Everybody should make an effort to get kids active and
>get
them interested in working hard to achieve a goal. Race promoters

>can only offer so much incentive, but all the rest of us are

>ambassadors and cheerleaders for our sport. Take some kids out for
fun
>rides. Mentor them. Encourage them. Plant the seeds of a future

>champion, help them grow. It's either that or we continue down the
path

>of being a nation of has-beens and
daydreamers.
>
>Rick
>
>Randy Dreiling wrote:
>
>

>
>>Hi All
>>
>>Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA
race as this is 100% about

>>racing.
>>
>>Minus the Bend
area, cross country racing numbers are way
down.
>>
>>WHY?
>>
>>I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt
Hood is the closest race for
>>many racers, yet there were only 60
racers at the state games.
>>
>>I have heard people say race fee's
are up, BUT that is just not true,
>>I have race flyers from 1993
and the race fee is the same or went up
>>by $5 at most depending on
your classes, this includes the late fee.
>>In fact Hood's fee is now
$15, which is less then the
>>1993 rate.
>>
>>Is cyclecross
getting so big people are skipping the summer XC races
>>to race
cross?
>>
>>Why do you think it is slowing
down??
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>
>>Randy Dreiling
>>Owner
Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com Executive Director

>>Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce www.oakridgechamber.com
Mt
>>Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com Other Oregon Adventures Events

>>Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass Willamette Pass
Downhill/Super
>>D's Series www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to
download
flyers
>>
>>__________________________________________________

>>Do

You Yahoo!?
>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around
>>http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
>>OBRA mailing
list
>>obra@list.obra.org
>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/
obra
>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>

>>
>>

>>
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ra
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OregonMTB

2006-07-26

I agree with Evan--take out the mountains--and it is no longer mountain biking. Mountain bikers are different than roadies. There I said it. We do not race to be in a pack for the entire race--nor to win in a field sprint. Our battles are against ourselves. It's each one of us against that big mountain--we have to concur it on the climb and then again on the descent.

With that said--I have raced the OBRA series for 6 years now. I started at age 28 and I am now 34. To me--the Bend courses are always too easy. The reason that attendence is always good in Bend--is because plenty of roadies come out for the races. THAT IS FINE--but we shouldn't try to 'dumb down' all the courses to get maximum participation.

Now generally speaking--I think that OBRA MTB racing is one of the best organized in the country. It is affordable, too. Local races on the east coast typically start at $45 each.

--- On Wed 07/26, Craig Austin < austinc@exponent.com > wrote:
From: Craig Austin [mailto: austinc@exponent.com]
To: RCJohnson1@attglobal.net, mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:38:58 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?

Rick, I think you're right on and this is one reason the Bend races are
still so well-attended. The courses there consist of a wide variety of
fun trails, not long pure-gravel-road climbs that are there simply to
stretch the field out. It's not just the climbing, it's the boredom of a
road climb; races with singletrack climbs are fun too. I know it's a
challenge to build courses to make races fun as well as avoiding passing
problems but I think that fun courses would bring more racers back.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:30 AM
To: mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?

Clearly XC race participation has declined. Whether it is primarily due
to more popular and convenient options or more universal factors is a
good subject
for study. But lets look at the discipline more
specifically. Some of the current factors against XC racing are:

* Diminishing local and convenient riding opportunities, leading to-
* Increased travel costs - for training and racing
* The "skill factor" (not everybody is cut out for technical and/or
fast MTB riding)
* Increasing equipment costs (if you really intend to win anyway -
i.e. carbon frames, etc.)
* Lack of national level recognition - currently no "Armstrong
effect" for MTBs
* More family friendly alternatives

Finally there's one category that the promoters do have some control
over. The courses. As I understand it the X in XC is short for cross,
meaning across. Not up/down country racing, but across. If cross country
skiing was like the current state of local XC mountain bike racing
everybody would have to summit Mt. Hood before skiing down Cooper Spur
at breakneck
speed. Is it any wonder that people over thirty, beginners,
and those weighing more than 150lbs find it difficult and discouraging?
XC racing is currently nothing more than endurance time trialling on
slow bikes over difficult terrain. Road racing recognizes there are
different types of riders with a variety of sprint and climbing courses
and finishes. If you're smart you can take advantage of drafting to
mitigate shortcomings in fitness. Groups can work together to chase down
break-a-way climbers. Not so in MTB. And does your average cyclo-cross
race start with 500 or 1000 feet (or more) of elevation gain? Think
about it. Would cross racing be so exciting if most races had the same
handful of competitors disappear over the top of a hill not to be seen
again until the end of the race? Not everyone enjoys, or is good at,
charging up some diabolically steep grade in the blazing sun with no end
in sight. Nobody wants to admit it of course,
but privately I often hear
it from people who are otherwise good riders. Whether they don't like
it, aren't built for it or just don't have the time to train for it
doesn't matter. The result is they skip the race and look to another
discipline they feel more competitive in. Or they go do something
entirely different that they consider more fun.
There, I said it out loud. Blasphemy against mountain biking. Not
everyone wants to spend most of the race grunting uphill. Great for
bragging rights of the few, poor for participation of the many.

Rick



Mike Murray wrote:

>Although Rick's comments re: inactivity and obesity in the general
>public is accurate it does not provide much insight into why XC racing
>participation is dropping off while participation in other disciplines
>of bike racing is growing. If inactivity was the answer then you would

>expect that road, track and CCX racing would be also declining

when it
>is instead growing rapidly.
>
>Mike Murray
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On

>Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
>Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 08:47 AM
>To: Randy Dreiling
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org; obrarace@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?
>
>
>Randy,
>Why couldn't you ask a question with a simple answer? Like "what is the

>air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?" Geez, is XC racing dying? I
>say not as such, but it could slip into a coma if we give up on it.
>Consider the following.
>
>Modern America is the land of fads - todays out there, extreme,
>be-part-of-the-happening-scene activity is tomorrows old news.
>Americans loose interest fast - especially when there's no national
>heroics involved. Americans crave attention and always want to win. But

>fewer and fewer kids these days

grow up with any appreciation for hard
>work, and get less and less active every year. Mom and Dad work on a
>computer all day and the kids get chauffeured to school. The TV has
>become the nations babysitter. School athletic programs are cut to save

>money and obesity sky rockets. No coincidence that our most recent
>sports hero (who started his career as a MTB racer) grew up with no TV
>busting his ass on a farm. Where will the next one come from?
>
>What the big picture comes down to is the majority in our country have
>no appreciation nor desire for true sports competition. They'll pay
>attention only when someone (an American) is winning, then switch the
>channel back to NASCAR and have a few beers. As for mountain bike
>racing, to do it well you have to train as hard (or harder) as any
>other sport, develop exceptional riding skills, be willing to get dirty

>and accept a higher risk of injury. And after all
that you'll still get

>beat most of the time. Factors like drive time, is it a loop course, or

>how long the race is are just small details. They matter only to the
>people who have already made the commitment to participate.
>
>As a promoter you have my sympathy. You're in a situation where there
>are huge factors of which you have no direct control. Maybe the best
>you can do is ride it out until enough people figure out that little
>Johnny has diabetes because he's growing up playing video games instead

>of riding a bike. The decline in XC race participation is but a symptom

>of a larger disease plaguing our country. Right now every cycling event

>competes for the same small group of participants. Cross popularity is
>up so those people came from some where. You can be sure the vast
>majority aren't new entries to the sport. It's cannibalism and XC
>racing is on the menu.
>
>Rather than end this on

a down note I'll try to offer some hope. The
>current crop of kids may be withering on the vine but we can still look

>to the future. Everybody should make an effort to get kids active and
>get them interested in working hard to achieve a goal. Race promoters
>can only offer so much incentive, but all the rest of us are
>ambassadors and cheerleaders for our sport. Take some kids out for fun
>rides. Mentor them. Encourage them. Plant the seeds of a future
>champion, help them grow. It's either that or we continue down the path

>of being a nation of has-beens and daydreamers.
>
>Rick
>
>Randy Dreiling wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hi All
>>
>>Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as this is 100% about

>>racing.
>>
>>Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are way down.
>>
>>WHY?
>>
>>I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the closest race for
>>many racers, yet
there were only 60 racers at the state games.
>>
>>I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is just not true,
>>I have race flyers from 1993 and the race fee is the same or went up
>>by $5 at most depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
>>In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
>>1993 rate.
>>
>>Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the summer XC races
>>to race cross?
>>
>>Why do you think it is slowing down??
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>
>>Randy Dreiling
>>Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com Executive Director
>>Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce www.oakridgechamber.com Mt
>>Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com Other Oregon Adventures Events
>>Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass Willamette Pass Downhill/Super
>>D's Series www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Do

You Yahoo!?
>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________
>>OBRA mailing list
>>obra@list.obra.org
>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
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>
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>
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>
>
>
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Randy Dreiling

2006-07-26

DY is a great guy...he talks and works with kids at
the DH races

Barry has said he would do a clinic for kids if it
worked with his schedule, but as our Oregon big guns
get bigger and bigger they travel more and more...but
it sure is cool to look at the results and see them
winning.

Take Care
--- Tim Maloney wrote:

> Randy,
>
> One issue is how to introduce new young riders to
> the sport. Cross country
> Mt biking
> doesn't offer the same easy intro that cyclocross
> does, and that BMX did in
> the past. If
> I was a parent I would want my child to participate
> in cyclocross or short
> track mt
> biking so that I can have then in view all the time,
> offer support, and they
> are never more
> than about 500 feet from the car. Just like BMX
> was. If towns had short
> track courses
> always open...like BMX tracks in many Oregon towns
> are....then mom or dad
> can drive the kids
> to the track and watch the kids. That is much
> tougher with cross country
> riding. When I was
> a kid, the BMX track was a meeting place for local
> riders, there is no
> comparable place for
> mt biking. Most kids never see Barry or Ryan ride,
> so they don't get the
> same motivation that
> I got when I saw Darrell Young clear the doubles at
> Riverside.
>
> Tim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Dreiling"
> To: ;
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 8:51 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?
>
>
> > Hi All
> >
> > Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race
> as
> > this is 100% about racing.
> >
> > Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers
> are
> > way down.
> >
> > WHY?
> >
> > I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is
> the
> > closest race for many racers, yet there were only
> 60
> > racers at the state games.
> >
> > I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT
> that is
> > just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and
> the
> > race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
> > depending on your classes, this includes the late
> fee.
> > In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then
> the
> > 1993 rate.
> >
> > Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping
> the
> > summer XC races to race cross?
> >
> > Why do you think it is slowing down??
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > Randy Dreiling
> > Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
> > Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber
> of Commerce
> > www.oakridgechamber.com
> > Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
> > Other Oregon Adventures Events
> > Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
> > Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
> > www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download
> flyers
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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Randy Dreiling
Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
www.oakridgechamber.com
Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
Other Oregon Adventures Events
Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


Craig Austin

2006-07-26

Rick, I think you're right on and this is one reason the Bend races are
still so well-attended. The courses there consist of a wide variety of
fun trails, not long pure-gravel-road climbs that are there simply to
stretch the field out. It's not just the climbing, it's the boredom of a
road climb; races with singletrack climbs are fun too. I know it's a
challenge to build courses to make races fun as well as avoiding passing
problems but I think that fun courses would bring more racers back.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:30 AM
To: mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?

Clearly XC race participation has declined. Whether it is primarily due
to more popular and convenient options or more universal factors is a
good subject for study. But lets look at the discipline more
specifically. Some of the current factors against XC racing are:

* Diminishing local and convenient riding opportunities, leading to-
* Increased travel costs - for training and racing
* The "skill factor" (not everybody is cut out for technical and/or
fast MTB riding)
* Increasing equipment costs (if you really intend to win anyway -
i.e. carbon frames, etc.)
* Lack of national level recognition - currently no "Armstrong
effect" for MTBs
* More family friendly alternatives

Finally there's one category that the promoters do have some control
over. The courses. As I understand it the X in XC is short for cross,
meaning across. Not up/down country racing, but across. If cross country
skiing was like the current state of local XC mountain bike racing
everybody would have to summit Mt. Hood before skiing down Cooper Spur
at breakneck speed. Is it any wonder that people over thirty, beginners,
and those weighing more than 150lbs find it difficult and discouraging?
XC racing is currently nothing more than endurance time trialling on
slow bikes over difficult terrain. Road racing recognizes there are
different types of riders with a variety of sprint and climbing courses
and finishes. If you're smart you can take advantage of drafting to
mitigate shortcomings in fitness. Groups can work together to chase down
break-a-way climbers. Not so in MTB. And does your average cyclo-cross
race start with 500 or 1000 feet (or more) of elevation gain? Think
about it. Would cross racing be so exciting if most races had the same
handful of competitors disappear over the top of a hill not to be seen
again until the end of the race? Not everyone enjoys, or is good at,
charging up some diabolically steep grade in the blazing sun with no end
in sight. Nobody wants to admit it of course, but privately I often hear
it from people who are otherwise good riders. Whether they don't like
it, aren't built for it or just don't have the time to train for it
doesn't matter. The result is they skip the race and look to another
discipline they feel more competitive in. Or they go do something
entirely different that they consider more fun.
There, I said it out loud. Blasphemy against mountain biking. Not
everyone wants to spend most of the race grunting uphill. Great for
bragging rights of the few, poor for participation of the many.

Rick

Mike Murray wrote:

>Although Rick's comments re: inactivity and obesity in the general
>public is accurate it does not provide much insight into why XC racing
>participation is dropping off while participation in other disciplines
>of bike racing is growing. If inactivity was the answer then you would

>expect that road, track and CCX racing would be also declining when it
>is instead growing rapidly.
>
>Mike Murray
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On

>Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
>Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 08:47 AM
>To: Randy Dreiling
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org; obrarace@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?
>
>
>Randy,
>Why couldn't you ask a question with a simple answer? Like "what is the

>air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?" Geez, is XC racing dying? I
>say not as such, but it could slip into a coma if we give up on it.
>Consider the following.
>
>Modern America is the land of fads - todays out there, extreme,
>be-part-of-the-happening-scene activity is tomorrows old news.
>Americans loose interest fast - especially when there's no national
>heroics involved. Americans crave attention and always want to win. But

>fewer and fewer kids these days grow up with any appreciation for hard
>work, and get less and less active every year. Mom and Dad work on a
>computer all day and the kids get chauffeured to school. The TV has
>become the nations babysitter. School athletic programs are cut to save

>money and obesity sky rockets. No coincidence that our most recent
>sports hero (who started his career as a MTB racer) grew up with no TV
>busting his ass on a farm. Where will the next one come from?
>
>What the big picture comes down to is the majority in our country have
>no appreciation nor desire for true sports competition. They'll pay
>attention only when someone (an American) is winning, then switch the
>channel back to NASCAR and have a few beers. As for mountain bike
>racing, to do it well you have to train as hard (or harder) as any
>other sport, develop exceptional riding skills, be willing to get dirty

>and accept a higher risk of injury. And after all that you'll still get

>beat most of the time. Factors like drive time, is it a loop course, or

>how long the race is are just small details. They matter only to the
>people who have already made the commitment to participate.
>
>As a promoter you have my sympathy. You're in a situation where there
>are huge factors of which you have no direct control. Maybe the best
>you can do is ride it out until enough people figure out that little
>Johnny has diabetes because he's growing up playing video games instead

>of riding a bike. The decline in XC race participation is but a symptom

>of a larger disease plaguing our country. Right now every cycling event

>competes for the same small group of participants. Cross popularity is
>up so those people came from some where. You can be sure the vast
>majority aren't new entries to the sport. It's cannibalism and XC
>racing is on the menu.
>
>Rather than end this on a down note I'll try to offer some hope. The
>current crop of kids may be withering on the vine but we can still look

>to the future. Everybody should make an effort to get kids active and
>get them interested in working hard to achieve a goal. Race promoters
>can only offer so much incentive, but all the rest of us are
>ambassadors and cheerleaders for our sport. Take some kids out for fun
>rides. Mentor them. Encourage them. Plant the seeds of a future
>champion, help them grow. It's either that or we continue down the path

>of being a nation of has-beens and daydreamers.
>
>Rick
>
>Randy Dreiling wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hi All
>>
>>Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as this is 100% about

>>racing.
>>
>>Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are way down.
>>
>>WHY?
>>
>>I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the closest race for
>>many racers, yet there were only 60 racers at the state games.
>>
>>I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is just not true,
>>I have race flyers from 1993 and the race fee is the same or went up
>>by $5 at most depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
>>In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
>>1993 rate.
>>
>>Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the summer XC races
>>to race cross?
>>
>>Why do you think it is slowing down??
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>
>>Randy Dreiling
>>Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com Executive Director
>>Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce www.oakridgechamber.com Mt
>>Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com Other Oregon Adventures Events
>>Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass Willamette Pass Downhill/Super
>>D's Series www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________
>>OBRA mailing list
>>obra@list.obra.org
>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Rick C Johnson

2006-07-26

Clearly XC race participation has declined. Whether it is primarily due
to more popular and convenient options or more universal factors is a
good subject for study. But lets look at the discipline more
specifically. Some of the current factors against XC racing are:

* Diminishing local and convenient riding opportunities, leading to-
* Increased travel costs - for training and racing
* The "skill factor" (not everybody is cut out for technical and/or
fast MTB riding)
* Increasing equipment costs (if you really intend to win anyway -
i.e. carbon frames, etc.)
* Lack of national level recognition - currently no "Armstrong
effect" for MTBs
* More family friendly alternatives

Finally there's one category that the promoters do have some control
over. The courses. As I understand it the X in XC is short for cross,
meaning across. Not up/down country racing, but across. If cross country
skiing was like the current state of local XC mountain bike racing
everybody would have to summit Mt. Hood before skiing down Cooper Spur
at breakneck speed. Is it any wonder that people over thirty, beginners,
and those weighing more than 150lbs find it difficult and discouraging?
XC racing is currently nothing more than endurance time trialling on
slow bikes over difficult terrain. Road racing recognizes there are
different types of riders with a variety of sprint and climbing courses
and finishes. If you're smart you can take advantage of drafting to
mitigate shortcomings in fitness. Groups can work together to chase down
break-a-way climbers. Not so in MTB. And does your average cyclo-cross
race start with 500 or 1000 feet (or more) of elevation gain? Think
about it. Would cross racing be so exciting if most races had the same
handful of competitors disappear over the top of a hill not to be seen
again until the end of the race? Not everyone enjoys, or is good at,
charging up some diabolically steep grade in the blazing sun with no end
in sight. Nobody wants to admit it of course, but privately I often hear
it from people who are otherwise good riders. Whether they don't like
it, aren't built for it or just don't have the time to train for it
doesn't matter. The result is they skip the race and look to another
discipline they feel more competitive in. Or they go do something
entirely different that they consider more fun.
There, I said it out loud. Blasphemy against mountain biking. Not
everyone wants to spend most of the race grunting uphill. Great for
bragging rights of the few, poor for participation of the many.

Rick

Mike Murray wrote:

>Although Rick's comments re: inactivity and obesity in the general public is
>accurate it does not provide much insight into why XC racing participation
>is dropping off while participation in other disciplines of bike racing is
>growing. If inactivity was the answer then you would expect that road,
>track and CCX racing would be also declining when it is instead growing
>rapidly.
>
>Mike Murray
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
>Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 08:47 AM
>To: Randy Dreiling
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org; obrarace@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?
>
>
>Randy,
>Why couldn't you ask a question with a simple answer? Like "what is the
>air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?" Geez, is XC racing dying? I
>say not as such, but it could slip into a coma if we give up on it.
>Consider the following.
>
>Modern America is the land of fads - todays out there, extreme,
>be-part-of-the-happening-scene activity is tomorrows old news. Americans
>loose interest fast - especially when there's no national heroics
>involved. Americans crave attention and always want to win. But fewer
>and fewer kids these days grow up with any appreciation for hard work,
>and get less and less active every year. Mom and Dad work on a computer
>all day and the kids get chauffeured to school. The TV has become the
>nations babysitter. School athletic programs are cut to save money and
>obesity sky rockets. No coincidence that our most recent sports hero
>(who started his career as a MTB racer) grew up with no TV busting his
>ass on a farm. Where will the next one come from?
>
>What the big picture comes down to is the majority in our country have
>no appreciation nor desire for true sports competition. They'll pay
>attention only when someone (an American) is winning, then switch the
>channel back to NASCAR and have a few beers. As for mountain bike
>racing, to do it well you have to train as hard (or harder) as any other
>sport, develop exceptional riding skills, be willing to get dirty and
>accept a higher risk of injury. And after all that you'll still get beat
>most of the time. Factors like drive time, is it a loop course, or how
>long the race is are just small details. They matter only to the people
>who have already made the commitment to participate.
>
>As a promoter you have my sympathy. You're in a situation where there
>are huge factors of which you have no direct control. Maybe the best
>you can do is ride it out until enough people figure out that little
>Johnny has diabetes because he's growing up playing video games instead
>of riding a bike. The decline in XC race participation is but a symptom
>of a larger disease plaguing our country. Right now every cycling event
>competes for the same small group of participants. Cross popularity is
>up so those people came from some where. You can be sure the vast
>majority aren't new entries to the sport. It's cannibalism and XC racing
>is on the menu.
>
>Rather than end this on a down note I'll try to offer some hope. The
>current crop of kids may be withering on the vine but we can still look
>to the future. Everybody should make an effort to get kids active and
>get them interested in working hard to achieve a goal. Race promoters
>can only offer so much incentive, but all the rest of us are ambassadors
>and cheerleaders for our sport. Take some kids out for fun rides. Mentor
>them. Encourage them. Plant the seeds of a future champion, help them
>grow. It's either that or we continue down the path of being a nation of
>has-beens and daydreamers.
>
>Rick
>
>Randy Dreiling wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hi All
>>
>>Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
>>this is 100% about racing.
>>
>>Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
>>way down.
>>
>>WHY?
>>
>>I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
>>closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
>>racers at the state games.
>>
>>I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
>>just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
>>race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
>>depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
>>In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
>>1993 rate.
>>
>>Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
>>summer XC races to race cross?
>>
>>Why do you think it is slowing down??
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>
>>Randy Dreiling
>>Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
>>Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
>>www.oakridgechamber.com
>>Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>>Other Oregon Adventures Events
>>Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
>>Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
>>www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>OBRA mailing list
>>obra@list.obra.org
>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>


Mike Murray

2006-07-25

Although Rick's comments re: inactivity and obesity in the general public is
accurate it does not provide much insight into why XC racing participation
is dropping off while participation in other disciplines of bike racing is
growing. If inactivity was the answer then you would expect that road,
track and CCX racing would be also declining when it is instead growing
rapidly.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 08:47 AM
To: Randy Dreiling
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; obrarace@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?

Randy,
Why couldn't you ask a question with a simple answer? Like "what is the
air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?" Geez, is XC racing dying? I
say not as such, but it could slip into a coma if we give up on it.
Consider the following.

Modern America is the land of fads - todays out there, extreme,
be-part-of-the-happening-scene activity is tomorrows old news. Americans
loose interest fast - especially when there's no national heroics
involved. Americans crave attention and always want to win. But fewer
and fewer kids these days grow up with any appreciation for hard work,
and get less and less active every year. Mom and Dad work on a computer
all day and the kids get chauffeured to school. The TV has become the
nations babysitter. School athletic programs are cut to save money and
obesity sky rockets. No coincidence that our most recent sports hero
(who started his career as a MTB racer) grew up with no TV busting his
ass on a farm. Where will the next one come from?

What the big picture comes down to is the majority in our country have
no appreciation nor desire for true sports competition. They'll pay
attention only when someone (an American) is winning, then switch the
channel back to NASCAR and have a few beers. As for mountain bike
racing, to do it well you have to train as hard (or harder) as any other
sport, develop exceptional riding skills, be willing to get dirty and
accept a higher risk of injury. And after all that you'll still get beat
most of the time. Factors like drive time, is it a loop course, or how
long the race is are just small details. They matter only to the people
who have already made the commitment to participate.

As a promoter you have my sympathy. You're in a situation where there
are huge factors of which you have no direct control. Maybe the best
you can do is ride it out until enough people figure out that little
Johnny has diabetes because he's growing up playing video games instead
of riding a bike. The decline in XC race participation is but a symptom
of a larger disease plaguing our country. Right now every cycling event
competes for the same small group of participants. Cross popularity is
up so those people came from some where. You can be sure the vast
majority aren't new entries to the sport. It's cannibalism and XC racing
is on the menu.

Rather than end this on a down note I'll try to offer some hope. The
current crop of kids may be withering on the vine but we can still look
to the future. Everybody should make an effort to get kids active and
get them interested in working hard to achieve a goal. Race promoters
can only offer so much incentive, but all the rest of us are ambassadors
and cheerleaders for our sport. Take some kids out for fun rides. Mentor
them. Encourage them. Plant the seeds of a future champion, help them
grow. It's either that or we continue down the path of being a nation of
has-beens and daydreamers.

Rick

Randy Dreiling wrote:

>Hi All
>
>Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
>this is 100% about racing.
>
>Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
>way down.
>
>WHY?
>
>I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
>closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
>racers at the state games.
>
>I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
>just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
>race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
>depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
>In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
>1993 rate.
>
>Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
>summer XC races to race cross?
>
>Why do you think it is slowing down??
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Randy Dreiling
>Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
>Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
>www.oakridgechamber.com
>Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>Other Oregon Adventures Events
>Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
>Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
>www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Mike Murray

2006-07-25

Jakebigham wrote:
"I am guessing that most bike racers of every strip (track, cyclecross,
road, downhill, cross country) are over 18 years old, I'll bet the average
is closer to 30."

The mean age of a current OBRA member is 27.7. The range is 7 to 76.

"I am under the impression that OBRA is (steadily?) growing over the years.
I think there may be some unexpected issues resulting from that growth:
larger fields, difficult logistics, frequent crashes, less of a "newbie
friendly" atmosphere."

Correct.

Mike Murray


Mike Murray

2006-07-25

Ryan Storfa wrote:
"Obra has to have the names and addresses of past members.
Maybe some sort of a mailing to past members that didn't renew?"

This is already done on a yearly basis. In addition people that purchase
single event memberships are mailed promotions to purchase annual
memberships. We also market buy sending posters and membership applications
to bike shops and athletic clubs. We could certainly do more marketing but
that requires someone to step up to do the actual work of doing these
mailings and other items. Anybody volunteering?

Mike Murray


Tim Maloney

2006-07-25

Randy,

One issue is how to introduce new young riders to the sport. Cross country
Mt biking
doesn't offer the same easy intro that cyclocross does, and that BMX did in
the past. If
I was a parent I would want my child to participate in cyclocross or short
track mt
biking so that I can have then in view all the time, offer support, and they
are never more
than about 500 feet from the car. Just like BMX was. If towns had short
track courses
always open...like BMX tracks in many Oregon towns are....then mom or dad
can drive the kids
to the track and watch the kids. That is much tougher with cross country
riding. When I was
a kid, the BMX track was a meeting place for local riders, there is no
comparable place for
mt biking. Most kids never see Barry or Ryan ride, so they don't get the
same motivation that
I got when I saw Darrell Young clear the doubles at Riverside.

Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dreiling"
To: ;
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 8:51 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?

> Hi All
>
> Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
> this is 100% about racing.
>
> Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
> way down.
>
> WHY?
>
> I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
> closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
> racers at the state games.
>
> I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
> just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
> race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
> depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
> In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
> 1993 rate.
>
> Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
> summer XC races to race cross?
>
> Why do you think it is slowing down??
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
> Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
> Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
> www.oakridgechamber.com
> Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
> Other Oregon Adventures Events
> Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
> Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
> www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Jon DeShirley

2006-07-25

I'm going to stick my nose out on this discussion, but anyone can feel
free to correct me.

On 7/25/06, Ryan Storfa wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if this is a problem of a lack of
> new riders or has the existing participant base just gone somewhere else?
> If the existing participants have left, which ones (i.e. young, old, men,
> women, beginner, sport, expert, Portlanders, non-Portlanders, etc) left
> first, which ones are currently leaving and where are they going? As soon
> as you know who isn't showing up and who triggered the exodus, you could
> probably design some way to get those people back.

One reason I moved away from MTB to road cycling has been the
dwindling number of trails easily accessible from town. PUMP has done
a great job towards trail advocacy over the years, but riders are
still being squeezed out of areas. They're working with Parks and Rec
to open a MTB park within Portland.

MTB riding has pretty much ceased on Powell Butte. Forest Park is
(and always has been, IMHO) overcrowded. I've never ridden on Mt.
Tabor due to the number of people on the trails up there. Urban stunt
riders are facing the same problems the BMX and skatboarders are wrt
private property.

To me, it's just easier to hop on my road bike or fixed gear and go
cruise the streets. So, the MTB stays hanging on the hook in the
garage.

--jon


Candi Murray

2006-07-25

There seems to be a greater lack of new riders in mtn bike racing then in
the other disciplines.
I have the members for the last 6 years. Each year we twice mail to all 6000
people on the list. Last year we put the calendars in every highschool and
health club in the state.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ryan Storfa
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 1:03 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if this is a problem of a lack of
new riders or has the existing participant base just gone somewhere else?
If the existing participants have left, which ones (i.e. young, old, men,
women, beginner, sport, expert, Portlanders, non-Portlanders, etc) left
first, which ones are currently leaving and where are they going? As soon
as you know who isn't showing up and who triggered the exodus, you could
probably design some way to get those people back.

I think previous e-mails have said mtn biking isn't dying everywhere but it
seems to be around here. Given the rise of cross, road racing and free
riding, I imagine there is a bit of cannibalization happening. That would
argue that you should look outside Obra for new members or else any
incremental increase in mountain biking will negatively impact road and
cross races.

On that front, Obra has to have the names and addresses of past members.
Maybe some sort of a mailing to past members that didn't renew? For that
matter, you can buy local mailing lists. REI members might be a good place
to start and I know they sell their lists. From a mass market point of view

I saw quite a few ads for River City and Bike and Hike during the tour this
year. I have no idea what it cost them (although I suspect some of the cost

was offset by the Cross Crusade and Giant respectively) but could Obra or
the race organizers partner with someone to create a generic TV spot to
promote mountain bike racing and/or list of upcoming events?

That being said, I think the format of mtn biking may need to be changed in
the future to keep any new participants around. I like the idea of having
urban/short loop type events because they're good for spectators (more
spectators = more future participants). The less intense "festival" type
atmosphere for the longer/remote courses might be good too. It might be
easier to convince people to drive 4 hours if they can make a weekend out of

it and have something to do when they aren't racing. Again, this format
would be good for spectators.

In the end, I would suspect that the rise and fall is a bit viral. As soon
as you convince some new people to get into the sport, they bring their
friends, their friends bring their friends and next thing you know we're
back in the mid 90s, race promoters are on the cover of Fortune and all is
well again (disclaimer: the last point was a joke).

Ryan

PS - Another option is to get Floyd to switch back to mountain biking.

>From: jakebigham
>To: RCJohnson1@attglobal.net, obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?
>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:28:41 -0700
>
>Rick-
>Your email is both insightful and dire but let me interject an
>observation. I am guessing that most bike racers of every strip (track,
>cyclecross, road, downhill, cross country) are over 18 years old, I'll bet

>the average is closer to 30. For most of these people, mommy isn't driving

>them anywhere. There is tremendous opportunity to bring in new adult
>participants into cycling with the right outreach. It is not a totally
>closed group of participants. I am under the impression that OBRA is
>(steadily?) growing over the years. I think there may be some unexpected
>issues resulting from that growth: larger fields, difficult logistics,
>frequent crashes, less of a "newbie friendly" atmosphere. It is just
>speculation on my part but supported by at least a little personal
>observation.
> Mike and Candi occasionally reference participation and membership
>statistics so I will defer to them, but my guess is that most new riders
>(for better or worse) are not coming from the diabetic obese child segment

>of our population. Your description of the woes of American society and
>culture may be correct but at the level of looking for participants in
>area racing (of all sorts) my guess is that there is lots of untapped
>potential (as you say, "..coma if we give up")
>-Jake
>On Jul 25, 2006, at 8:46 AM, Rick C Johnson wrote:
>
>>Randy,
>>Why couldn't you ask a question with a simple answer? Like "what is the
>>air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?" Geez, is XC racing dying? I
>>say not as such, but it could slip into a coma if we give up on it.
>>Consider the following.
>>
>>Modern America is the land of fads - todays out there, extreme,
>>be-part-of-the-happening-scene activity is tomorrows old news. Americans
>>loose interest fast - especially when there's no national heroics
>>involved. Americans crave attention and always want to win. But fewer
>>and fewer kids these days grow up with any appreciation for hard work,
>>and get less and less active every year. Mom and Dad work on a computer
>>all day and the kids get chauffeured to school. The TV has become the
>>nations babysitter. School athletic programs are cut to save money and
>>obesity sky rockets. No coincidence that our most recent sports hero
>>(who started his career as a MTB racer) grew up with no TV busting his
>>ass on a farm. Where will the next one come from?
>>
>>What the big picture comes down to is the majority in our country have
>>no appreciation nor desire for true sports competition. They'll pay
>>attention only when someone (an American) is winning, then switch the
>>channel back to NASCAR and have a few beers. As for mountain bike
>>racing, to do it well you have to train as hard (or harder) as any other
>>sport, develop exceptional riding skills, be willing to get dirty and
>>accept a higher risk of injury. And after all that you'll still get beat
>>most of the time. Factors like drive time, is it a loop course, or how
>>long the race is are just small details. They matter only to the people
>>who have already made the commitment to participate.
>>
>>As a promoter you have my sympathy. You're in a situation where there
>>are huge factors of which you have no direct control. Maybe the best
>>you can do is ride it out until enough people figure out that little
>>Johnny has diabetes because he's growing up playing video games instead
>>of riding a bike. The decline in XC race participation is but a symptom
>>of a larger disease plaguing our country. Right now every cycling event
>>competes for the same small group of participants. Cross popularity is
>>up so those people came from some where. You can be sure the vast
>>majority aren't new entries to the sport. It's cannibalism and XC racing
>>is on the menu.
>>
>>Rather than end this on a down note I'll try to offer some hope. The
>>current crop of kids may be withering on the vine but we can still look
>>to the future. Everybody should make an effort to get kids active and
>>get them interested in working hard to achieve a goal. Race promoters
>>can only offer so much incentive, but all the rest of us are ambassadors
>>and cheerleaders for our sport. Take some kids out for fun rides. Mentor
>>them. Encourage them. Plant the seeds of a future champion, help them
>>grow. It's either that or we continue down the path of being a nation of
>>has-beens and daydreamers.
>>
>>Rick
>>
>>Randy Dreiling wrote:
>>
>>>Hi All
>>>
>>>Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
>>>this is 100% about racing.
>>>
>>>Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
>>>way down.
>>>
>>>WHY?
>>>
>>>I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
>>>closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
>>>racers at the state games.
>>>
>>>I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
>>>just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
>>>race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
>>>depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
>>>In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
>>>1993 rate.
>>>
>>>Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
>>>summer XC races to race cross?
>>>
>>>Why do you think it is slowing down??
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>Randy Dreiling
>>>Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
>>>Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
>>>www.oakridgechamber.com
>>>Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>>>Other Oregon Adventures Events
>>>Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
>>>Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
>>>www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>OBRA mailing list
>>>obra@list.obra.org
>>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>OBRA mailing list
>>obra@list.obra.org
>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Ryan Storfa

2006-07-25

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if this is a problem of a lack of
new riders or has the existing participant base just gone somewhere else?
If the existing participants have left, which ones (i.e. young, old, men,
women, beginner, sport, expert, Portlanders, non-Portlanders, etc) left
first, which ones are currently leaving and where are they going? As soon
as you know who isn't showing up and who triggered the exodus, you could
probably design some way to get those people back.

I think previous e-mails have said mtn biking isn't dying everywhere but it
seems to be around here. Given the rise of cross, road racing and free
riding, I imagine there is a bit of cannibalization happening. That would
argue that you should look outside Obra for new members or else any
incremental increase in mountain biking will negatively impact road and
cross races.

On that front, Obra has to have the names and addresses of past members.
Maybe some sort of a mailing to past members that didn't renew? For that
matter, you can buy local mailing lists. REI members might be a good place
to start and I know they sell their lists. From a mass market point of view
I saw quite a few ads for River City and Bike and Hike during the tour this
year. I have no idea what it cost them (although I suspect some of the cost
was offset by the Cross Crusade and Giant respectively) but could Obra or
the race organizers partner with someone to create a generic TV spot to
promote mountain bike racing and/or list of upcoming events?

That being said, I think the format of mtn biking may need to be changed in
the future to keep any new participants around. I like the idea of having
urban/short loop type events because they're good for spectators (more
spectators = more future participants). The less intense "festival" type
atmosphere for the longer/remote courses might be good too. It might be
easier to convince people to drive 4 hours if they can make a weekend out of
it and have something to do when they aren't racing. Again, this format
would be good for spectators.

In the end, I would suspect that the rise and fall is a bit viral. As soon
as you convince some new people to get into the sport, they bring their
friends, their friends bring their friends and next thing you know we're
back in the mid 90s, race promoters are on the cover of Fortune and all is
well again (disclaimer: the last point was a joke).

Ryan

PS - Another option is to get Floyd to switch back to mountain biking.

>From: jakebigham
>To: RCJohnson1@attglobal.net, obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?
>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:28:41 -0700
>
>Rick-
>Your email is both insightful and dire but let me interject an
>observation. I am guessing that most bike racers of every strip (track,
>cyclecross, road, downhill, cross country) are over 18 years old, I'll bet
>the average is closer to 30. For most of these people, mommy isn't driving
>them anywhere. There is tremendous opportunity to bring in new adult
>participants into cycling with the right outreach. It is not a totally
>closed group of participants. I am under the impression that OBRA is
>(steadily?) growing over the years. I think there may be some unexpected
>issues resulting from that growth: larger fields, difficult logistics,
>frequent crashes, less of a "newbie friendly" atmosphere. It is just
>speculation on my part but supported by at least a little personal
>observation.
> Mike and Candi occasionally reference participation and membership
>statistics so I will defer to them, but my guess is that most new riders
>(for better or worse) are not coming from the diabetic obese child segment
>of our population. Your description of the woes of American society and
>culture may be correct but at the level of looking for participants in
>area racing (of all sorts) my guess is that there is lots of untapped
>potential (as you say, "..coma if we give up")
>-Jake
>On Jul 25, 2006, at 8:46 AM, Rick C Johnson wrote:
>
>>Randy,
>>Why couldn't you ask a question with a simple answer? Like "what is the
>>air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?" Geez, is XC racing dying? I
>>say not as such, but it could slip into a coma if we give up on it.
>>Consider the following.
>>
>>Modern America is the land of fads - todays out there, extreme,
>>be-part-of-the-happening-scene activity is tomorrows old news. Americans
>>loose interest fast - especially when there's no national heroics
>>involved. Americans crave attention and always want to win. But fewer
>>and fewer kids these days grow up with any appreciation for hard work,
>>and get less and less active every year. Mom and Dad work on a computer
>>all day and the kids get chauffeured to school. The TV has become the
>>nations babysitter. School athletic programs are cut to save money and
>>obesity sky rockets. No coincidence that our most recent sports hero
>>(who started his career as a MTB racer) grew up with no TV busting his
>>ass on a farm. Where will the next one come from?
>>
>>What the big picture comes down to is the majority in our country have
>>no appreciation nor desire for true sports competition. They'll pay
>>attention only when someone (an American) is winning, then switch the
>>channel back to NASCAR and have a few beers. As for mountain bike
>>racing, to do it well you have to train as hard (or harder) as any other
>>sport, develop exceptional riding skills, be willing to get dirty and
>>accept a higher risk of injury. And after all that you'll still get beat
>>most of the time. Factors like drive time, is it a loop course, or how
>>long the race is are just small details. They matter only to the people
>>who have already made the commitment to participate.
>>
>>As a promoter you have my sympathy. You're in a situation where there
>>are huge factors of which you have no direct control. Maybe the best
>>you can do is ride it out until enough people figure out that little
>>Johnny has diabetes because he's growing up playing video games instead
>>of riding a bike. The decline in XC race participation is but a symptom
>>of a larger disease plaguing our country. Right now every cycling event
>>competes for the same small group of participants. Cross popularity is
>>up so those people came from some where. You can be sure the vast
>>majority aren't new entries to the sport. It's cannibalism and XC racing
>>is on the menu.
>>
>>Rather than end this on a down note I'll try to offer some hope. The
>>current crop of kids may be withering on the vine but we can still look
>>to the future. Everybody should make an effort to get kids active and
>>get them interested in working hard to achieve a goal. Race promoters
>>can only offer so much incentive, but all the rest of us are ambassadors
>>and cheerleaders for our sport. Take some kids out for fun rides. Mentor
>>them. Encourage them. Plant the seeds of a future champion, help them
>>grow. It's either that or we continue down the path of being a nation of
>>has-beens and daydreamers.
>>
>>Rick
>>
>>Randy Dreiling wrote:
>>
>>>Hi All
>>>
>>>Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
>>>this is 100% about racing.
>>>
>>>Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
>>>way down.
>>>
>>>WHY?
>>>
>>>I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
>>>closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
>>>racers at the state games.
>>>
>>>I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
>>>just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
>>>race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
>>>depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
>>>In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
>>>1993 rate.
>>>
>>>Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
>>>summer XC races to race cross?
>>>
>>>Why do you think it is slowing down??
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>Randy Dreiling
>>>Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
>>>Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
>>>www.oakridgechamber.com
>>>Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>>>Other Oregon Adventures Events
>>>Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
>>>Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
>>>www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>OBRA mailing list
>>>obra@list.obra.org
>>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>OBRA mailing list
>>obra@list.obra.org
>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


reblua@comcast.net

2006-07-25

I agree with several of the opinions being offered. It is interesting to see the responses and recognized their particular frames of reference. For me, the family man perspective is applicable. I can get out and ride for 3-5 hours on a weekend day, but it is much harder to add in the 3hr+ driving (combined to and from) plus the waiting pre and post race. That means I'm gone for an entire day after I've worked all day every weekday. Also, events on known holidays are not convenient for parents who would normally like to participate. Then, there are all of the other competing events of the summer, camping trips, family vacations, etc.

The point is, there are many symptoms that contribute. And often times, they compound the effect. In my case, at age 32, I'm no longer in the shape I was when I was in my early 20s. If I show up to race sport and am in a class that spans the ages of 18-34, I know will not trying to race for 1st. I'm paying to participate and race for fun. I understand that the large grouping is due to the lower turnout, but it is a deterrent for me. Even in top shape, I'll still be 20-40 lbs heavier than some of the 18-21 yr olds due to my bone and muscle structure. Couple that with my bike being purchased and built for the riding I enjoy 3 times a week and not for XC racing, I'm giving up anywhere from 5-10 pounds just in bike weight. I'll never be able to make it to the top of the climb with those kids, so my competive edge and attitude never show up.

This brings me to my last observation: There are a lot of people, kids included, that are buying bikes for more comfort during aggressive riding, the trailbike. Also, some are jumping straight into freeriding. These people are not necessarily going to race XC, nor will most of them race downhill. The Super D category is the only thing that is going to capture the attention of those riders, but it will take time to develop and mature. I see future growth there and plan to participate in that format, provided that it a) doesn't interfere with family time, b) doesn't occur on the hottest weekend in decades, and c) courses are designed in the 8-12 mile range. 4 miles is just too short for that kind of race. It needs to be an intermediate in distance between the longer XC courses and the short 3-4 mile downhill courses.

There's my 4 cents worth.

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Randy Dreiling

> Hi All
>
> Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
> this is 100% about racing.
>
> Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
> way down.
>
> WHY?
>
> I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
> closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
> racers at the state games.
>
> I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
> just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
> race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
> depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
> In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
> 1993 rate.
>
> Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
> summer XC races to race cross?
>
> Why do you think it is slowing down??
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
> Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
> Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
> www.oakridgechamber.com
> Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
> Other Oregon Adventures Events
> Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
> Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
> www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


jakebigham

2006-07-25

Rick-
Your email is both insightful and dire but let me interject an
observation. I am guessing that most bike racers of every strip
(track, cyclecross, road, downhill, cross country) are over 18 years
old, I'll bet the average is closer to 30. For most of these people,
mommy isn't driving them anywhere. There is tremendous opportunity to
bring in new adult participants into cycling with the right outreach.
It is not a totally closed group of participants. I am under the
impression that OBRA is (steadily?) growing over the years. I think
there may be some unexpected issues resulting from that growth:
larger fields, difficult logistics, frequent crashes, less of a
"newbie friendly" atmosphere. It is just speculation on my part but
supported by at least a little personal observation.
Mike and Candi occasionally reference participation and membership
statistics so I will defer to them, but my guess is that most new
riders (for better or worse) are not coming from the diabetic obese
child segment of our population. Your description of the woes of
American society and culture may be correct but at the level of
looking for participants in area racing (of all sorts) my guess is
that there is lots of untapped potential (as you say, "..coma if we
give up")
-Jake
On Jul 25, 2006, at 8:46 AM, Rick C Johnson wrote:

> Randy,
> Why couldn't you ask a question with a simple answer? Like "what is
> the
> air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?" Geez, is XC racing dying? I
> say not as such, but it could slip into a coma if we give up on it.
> Consider the following.
>
> Modern America is the land of fads - todays out there, extreme,
> be-part-of-the-happening-scene activity is tomorrows old news.
> Americans
> loose interest fast - especially when there's no national heroics
> involved. Americans crave attention and always want to win. But fewer
> and fewer kids these days grow up with any appreciation for hard work,
> and get less and less active every year. Mom and Dad work on a
> computer
> all day and the kids get chauffeured to school. The TV has become the
> nations babysitter. School athletic programs are cut to save money and
> obesity sky rockets. No coincidence that our most recent sports hero
> (who started his career as a MTB racer) grew up with no TV busting his
> ass on a farm. Where will the next one come from?
>
> What the big picture comes down to is the majority in our country have
> no appreciation nor desire for true sports competition. They'll pay
> attention only when someone (an American) is winning, then switch the
> channel back to NASCAR and have a few beers. As for mountain bike
> racing, to do it well you have to train as hard (or harder) as any
> other
> sport, develop exceptional riding skills, be willing to get dirty and
> accept a higher risk of injury. And after all that you'll still get
> beat
> most of the time. Factors like drive time, is it a loop course, or how
> long the race is are just small details. They matter only to the
> people
> who have already made the commitment to participate.
>
> As a promoter you have my sympathy. You're in a situation where there
> are huge factors of which you have no direct control. Maybe the best
> you can do is ride it out until enough people figure out that little
> Johnny has diabetes because he's growing up playing video games
> instead
> of riding a bike. The decline in XC race participation is but a
> symptom
> of a larger disease plaguing our country. Right now every cycling
> event
> competes for the same small group of participants. Cross popularity is
> up so those people came from some where. You can be sure the vast
> majority aren't new entries to the sport. It's cannibalism and XC
> racing
> is on the menu.
>
> Rather than end this on a down note I'll try to offer some hope. The
> current crop of kids may be withering on the vine but we can still
> look
> to the future. Everybody should make an effort to get kids active and
> get them interested in working hard to achieve a goal. Race promoters
> can only offer so much incentive, but all the rest of us are
> ambassadors
> and cheerleaders for our sport. Take some kids out for fun rides.
> Mentor
> them. Encourage them. Plant the seeds of a future champion, help them
> grow. It's either that or we continue down the path of being a
> nation of
> has-beens and daydreamers.
>
> Rick
>
> Randy Dreiling wrote:
>
>> Hi All
>>
>> Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
>> this is 100% about racing.
>>
>> Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
>> way down.
>>
>> WHY?
>>
>> I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
>> closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
>> racers at the state games.
>>
>> I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
>> just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
>> race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
>> depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
>> In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
>> 1993 rate.
>>
>> Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
>> summer XC races to race cross?
>>
>> Why do you think it is slowing down??
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Randy Dreiling
>> Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
>> Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
>> www.oakridgechamber.com
>> Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>> Other Oregon Adventures Events
>> Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
>> Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
>> www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
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Rick C Johnson

2006-07-25

Randy,
Why couldn't you ask a question with a simple answer? Like "what is the
air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?" Geez, is XC racing dying? I
say not as such, but it could slip into a coma if we give up on it.
Consider the following.

Modern America is the land of fads - todays out there, extreme,
be-part-of-the-happening-scene activity is tomorrows old news. Americans
loose interest fast - especially when there's no national heroics
involved. Americans crave attention and always want to win. But fewer
and fewer kids these days grow up with any appreciation for hard work,
and get less and less active every year. Mom and Dad work on a computer
all day and the kids get chauffeured to school. The TV has become the
nations babysitter. School athletic programs are cut to save money and
obesity sky rockets. No coincidence that our most recent sports hero
(who started his career as a MTB racer) grew up with no TV busting his
ass on a farm. Where will the next one come from?

What the big picture comes down to is the majority in our country have
no appreciation nor desire for true sports competition. They'll pay
attention only when someone (an American) is winning, then switch the
channel back to NASCAR and have a few beers. As for mountain bike
racing, to do it well you have to train as hard (or harder) as any other
sport, develop exceptional riding skills, be willing to get dirty and
accept a higher risk of injury. And after all that you'll still get beat
most of the time. Factors like drive time, is it a loop course, or how
long the race is are just small details. They matter only to the people
who have already made the commitment to participate.

As a promoter you have my sympathy. You're in a situation where there
are huge factors of which you have no direct control. Maybe the best
you can do is ride it out until enough people figure out that little
Johnny has diabetes because he's growing up playing video games instead
of riding a bike. The decline in XC race participation is but a symptom
of a larger disease plaguing our country. Right now every cycling event
competes for the same small group of participants. Cross popularity is
up so those people came from some where. You can be sure the vast
majority aren't new entries to the sport. It's cannibalism and XC racing
is on the menu.

Rather than end this on a down note I'll try to offer some hope. The
current crop of kids may be withering on the vine but we can still look
to the future. Everybody should make an effort to get kids active and
get them interested in working hard to achieve a goal. Race promoters
can only offer so much incentive, but all the rest of us are ambassadors
and cheerleaders for our sport. Take some kids out for fun rides. Mentor
them. Encourage them. Plant the seeds of a future champion, help them
grow. It's either that or we continue down the path of being a nation of
has-beens and daydreamers.

Rick

Randy Dreiling wrote:

>Hi All
>
>Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
>this is 100% about racing.
>
>Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
>way down.
>
>WHY?
>
>I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
>closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
>racers at the state games.
>
>I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
>just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
>race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
>depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
>In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
>1993 rate.
>
>Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
>summer XC races to race cross?
>
>Why do you think it is slowing down??
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Randy Dreiling
>Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
>Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
>www.oakridgechamber.com
>Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>Other Oregon Adventures Events
>Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
>Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
>www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>


david baker

2006-07-24

I think it just a natural cycle.
Mt. bike racing only got popular 10 years ago, rode it's wave and now the
downturn, it will come back.
Till then cross is hot, then?
Randy, you should have cross races in oakridge to ride this out. Not in a
dry industrial area, but a mushroom ridden, misty field of forest and grass.
In November!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dreiling"
To: ;
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 8:51 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?

> Hi All
>
> Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
> this is 100% about racing.
>
> Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
> way down.
>
> WHY?
>
> I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
> closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
> racers at the state games.
>
> I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
> just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
> race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
> depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
> In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
> 1993 rate.
>
> Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
> summer XC races to race cross?
>
> Why do you think it is slowing down??
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
> Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
> Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
> www.oakridgechamber.com
> Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
> Other Oregon Adventures Events
> Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
> Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
> www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Ron and Dorothy Strasser

2006-07-24

Randy,
I believe you have every right to discuss this here. It is all bike racing!
I am only in my second year of mountain bike racing, but I think that if the
venues were were closer to the major metro areas (maybe I am wrong as the
Mt. Hood races are pretty close) that might make the time committment for
races less of an issue. I know it would entail working with more private
property owners if close-in, but it might make a difference. I have really
enjoyed the courses I have raced, but some of the distances make think about
the trip. I also heard one racer mention that the XC races were so few,
with too much time between... he looked to road racing as an alternative. I
do not think that OBRA, as it is now staffed can offer as much support to
mountain biking as it does to road and track. I do not think it is not
wanting this support to be there... but there are just so many people and
hours in the day. I was surprised to see the posting about not having two
events at one venue on the same day (PIR short track getting the boot as an
example). That upset me at first as I am racing the short track and am very
aware of NOT impacting the road racing. Maybe there are problems that
cannot be solved between promoters. I would think that there would be the
ability for the two to take place in a smooth manner instead of a "You are
either with us or against us" type of rule change being suggested. But what
do ya do? Someone thinks that way. I do not know all the in-and-outs of
PIR, but I would think that Wed. Thur. or Fri. would be much more difficult
to schedule for bike racing because most auto races take days of set-up and
practice time. I think the short track in the Portland area is a VERY
IMPORTANT way to promote mountain bike racing and bike racing in general. I
would race it any day. Thanks to you and all the promoters of races...Road,
Track and Mountain!!!!!!!!!
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dreiling"
To: ;
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 8:51 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Is Cross Country racing dying?

> Hi All
>
> Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
> this is 100% about racing.
>
> Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
> way down.
>
> WHY?
>
> I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
> closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
> racers at the state games.
>
> I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
> just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
> race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
> depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
> In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
> 1993 rate.
>
> Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
> summer XC races to race cross?
>
> Why do you think it is slowing down??
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
> Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
> Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
> www.oakridgechamber.com
> Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
> Other Oregon Adventures Events
> Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
> Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
> www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Randy Dreiling

2006-07-24

Hi All

Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
this is 100% about racing.

Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
way down.

WHY?

I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
racers at the state games.

I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
1993 rate.

Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
summer XC races to race cross?

Why do you think it is slowing down??

Thanks

Randy Dreiling
Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
www.oakridgechamber.com
Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
Other Oregon Adventures Events
Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com