Tim Maloney

"I know some guys in their late 30's who don't like to race because they
don't feel they can compete with guys in their early
20's."...........................

Tell them to check the results. The older guys are usually a lot faster.

Tim

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: ;
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] [OBRA Race] Is Cross Country racing dying?

>I think the race fee's are fine. Travel does get expensive if you live in
>S. Oregon like some of us. But, I think race directors should also look at
>what they are providing. Many people like the social aspect of the races
>as well as the competition. Some races have little to offer other than the
>race and some nylon ribbons. I remember a race last year that offered a
>black trash bag with some loaves of bread for the post race food. People
>still talk about that.
>
> Take the Spring Thaw for example. There is little single track in this
> race and it still attracted about 215 racers this year. Why? It is such a
> well organized and well planned event that everyone has a great time. The
> location, and the social aspect, the great post race food as well as the
> race make for a really fun event. You definitely get what you pay for.
> Have you seen the great Spring Thaw stem caps that were given out for
> placing? The placing is engraved in the cap and they are gold, silver and
> bronze. Where do the fee's for these other races go?
> And they offer more categories. People like to compete and have a chance
> of placing. OBRA should go back to having more categories. 19 to 39!? I
> know some guys in their late 30's who don't like to race because they
> don't feel they can compete with guys in their early 20's.
>
> With that said, I do feel that the majority of the races are very well
> done and I really enjoy attending. The drive and the fee's don't ever stop
> me.
> Thanks for listening.
>
>
> ---- Randy Dreiling wrote:
>> Hi All
>>
>> Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
>> this is 100% about racing.
>>
>> Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
>> way down.
>>
>> WHY?
>>
>> I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
>> closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
>> racers at the state games.
>>
>> I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
>> just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
>> race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
>> depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
>> In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
>> 1993 rate.
>>
>> Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
>> summer XC races to race cross?
>>
>> Why do you think it is slowing down??
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Randy Dreiling
>> Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
>> Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
>> www.oakridgechamber.com
>> Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>> Other Oregon Adventures Events
>> Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
>> Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
>> www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRArace mailing list
>> obrarace@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obrarace
>> Unsubscribe: obrarace-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

masessa@charter.net

I think the race fee's are fine. Travel does get expensive if you live in S. Oregon like some of us. But, I think race directors should also look at what they are providing. Many people like the social aspect of the races as well as the competition. Some races have little to offer other than the race and some nylon ribbons. I remember a race last year that offered a black trash bag with some loaves of bread for the post race food. People still talk about that.

Take the Spring Thaw for example. There is little single track in this race and it still attracted about 215 racers this year. Why? It is such a well organized and well planned event that everyone has a great time. The location, and the social aspect, the great post race food as well as the race make for a really fun event. You definitely get what you pay for. Have you seen the great Spring Thaw stem caps that were given out for placing? The placing is engraved in the cap and they are gold, silver and bronze. Where do the fee's for these other races go?
And they offer more categories. People like to compete and have a chance of placing. OBRA should go back to having more categories. 19 to 39!? I know some guys in their late 30's who don't like to race because they don't feel they can compete with guys in their early 20's.

With that said, I do feel that the majority of the races are very well done and I really enjoy attending. The drive and the fee's don't ever stop me.
Thanks for listening.

---- Randy Dreiling wrote:
> Hi All
>
> Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
> this is 100% about racing.
>
> Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
> way down.
>
> WHY?
>
> I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
> closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
> racers at the state games.
>
> I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
> just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
> race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
> depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
> In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
> 1993 rate.
>
> Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
> summer XC races to race cross?
>
> Why do you think it is slowing down??
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
> Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
> Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
> www.oakridgechamber.com
> Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
> Other Oregon Adventures Events
> Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
> Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
> www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRArace mailing list
> obrarace@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obrarace
> Unsubscribe: obrarace-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

George de Randich

I agree with you it's a bit expensive!
George de Randich

-------Original Message-------

From: OregonMTB
Date: 07/24/06 19:07:19
To: raggy23@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org; obrarace@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] [OBRA Race] Is Cross Country racing dying?



My $.02.

First off, I live in southern Oregon--so distance is a factor in the races I
race.

Gas prices had an impact on what I raced this year. For cross-country
races--I raced only 4 races this year:
Yreka, Grants Pass, Merlin, and Ashland.

Now, driving/gas is not that bad--as long as it's worth it. I also did 2
12-hour races in California (one in Weaverville and one in Arcata). I also
plan on doing the Whiskeytown 9-to-5. What I am getting at--is, "If I am
going to drive for 3-plus hours each way (and possibly spend the night in a
hotel)--I want to make sure the race distance is worth it.

I race sport and singlespeed. There is nothing worse then going through the
whole effort/expense of a race for a 1.5 hour sprint. On any other normal
weekend--I like to get 3 to 5 hours of riding in. Make the sport level
races 2-hour minimum and the expert level 3-hour minimum.

So there is a sliding scale--distance/expense vs. length of the race.

On a completely related note from a different point of view--for those of us
married with kids, having a race on Mother's Day or Easter weekend--simply
doesn't work. I won't ever attend one of those races.

And to repeat the sentiments of others--having one series would be
best--although the Ski Bowl/Mt Hood races are simply too far for us Southern
Oregon racers.

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OregonMTB

My $.02.

First off, I live in southern Oregon--so distance is a factor in the races I race.

Gas prices had an impact on what I raced this year. For cross-country races--I raced only 4 races this year:
Yreka, Grants Pass, Merlin, and Ashland.

Now, driving/gas is not that bad--as long as it's worth it. I also did 2 12-hour races in California (one in Weaverville and one in Arcata). I also plan on doing the Whiskeytown 9-to-5. What I am getting at--is, "If I am going to drive for 3-plus hours each way (and possibly spend the night in a hotel)--I want to make sure the race distance is worth it.

I race sport and singlespeed. There is nothing worse then going through the whole effort/expense of a race for a 1.5 hour sprint. On any other normal weekend--I like to get 3 to 5 hours of riding in. Make the sport level races 2-hour minimum and the expert level 3-hour minimum.

So there is a sliding scale--distance/expense vs. length of the race.

On a completely related note from a different point of view--for those of us married with kids, having a race on Mother's Day or Easter weekend--simply doesn't work. I won't ever attend one of those races.

And to repeat the sentiments of others--having one series would be best--although the Ski Bowl/Mt Hood races are simply too far for us Southern Oregon racers.

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

Leibowitz, Flo

Good thinking. In my opinion, Evan's observations apply to any kind of race.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Evan Plews
Sent: Mon 7/24/2006 1:36 PM
To: bengelen@comcast.net; raggy23@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] [OBRA Race] Is Cross Country racing dying?

----------

I there are probably several key points that have become apparent over the years I have been racing.

* XC racers either want the EPIC adventure race or the loop to loop spectator friendly race.
* Racing close to metro areas with lots of course gimmicks (stairs, jumps, etc) is good.
* Long, marathon type point to point races in the middle of nowhere are just as good.
* Neutral starts and finishes in towns are good.
* Big start/finish line banners are good.
* Mass starts are good for point-to-point/single lap races.
* Making a big deal with announcers, etc is good.
* Bottom line--people come for an EVENT not just to ride in the woods!

Bang for the buck is also important. When I was helping promote races a few years ago, we provided a shirt, meal and bottle for $25 and still made money.

Evan Plews

James Marron

I know for myself drive time is a big deal as I've got small children who
like going to the races and taking part in the kiddie events but who don't
do so well on "long" road trips such as a trip up to Mt. Hood. As a result
we focus almost exclusively now on the cross or short track events in or
near PDX.

>From: "Brian Engelen"
>To: "'Randy Dreiling'" ,
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] [OBRA Race] Is Cross Country racing dying?
>Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:35:10 -0700
>
>Randy, I think it's related to drive time.
>
>I did the State Games and I GREATLY appreciate everyone's efforts. But,
>Ski
>Bowl is still 1-1/2 hours from my house in Beaverton. I was gone from the
>family for the entire day.
>
>I remember MTB racing in Beaverton (Cooper Mountain) and Portland (Gabriel
>Park), back in the day.
>
>Also, I can't help but mentioning the 170 racers at the "near by" PIR short
>track last Monday. Plus, Cross races are usually close to town.
>
>Thanks for reading,
>
>Brian Engelen
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: obrarace-bounces@list.obra.org
>[mailto:obrarace-bounces@list.obra.org]
>On Behalf Of Randy Dreiling
>Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:51 AM
>To: obra@list.obra.org; obrarace@list.obra.org
>Subject: [OBRA Race] Is Cross Country racing dying?
>
>Hi All
>
>Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
>this is 100% about racing.
>
>Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
>way down.
>
>WHY?
>
>I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
>closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
>racers at the state games.
>
>I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
>just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
>race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
>depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
>In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
>1993 rate.
>
>Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
>summer XC races to race cross?
>
>Why do you think it is slowing down??
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Randy Dreiling
>Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
>Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
>www.oakridgechamber.com
>Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>Other Oregon Adventures Events
>Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
>Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
>www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>OBRArace mailing list
>obrarace@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obrarace
>Unsubscribe: obrarace-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

Good points... Even though the chainbreaker was tough, you came through the main start/finish area 3 times and it was very good for the riders as well as all the folks cheering them on!
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: McCann Family
To: Brian Engelen ; 'Randy Dreiling' ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] [OBRA Race] Is Cross Country racing dying?

Randy

I can only speak for our team. We pick the races we are doing as a team before the season starts. We may consider doing more races if there was a over all Team Championships for all the races combined. The drive is not the issue for us. There could be other ways to encourage complete teams to come to races. You could give a discount to teams with 5 or more riders at the races.
I really liked when there was one series. It is really easy to focus on one series and not pay any attention to the other series races.
I also like the lap courses. Not for myself, I like to bring my family to the races and the more of the race they can see, the better time they have. If the hole family is happy the more races I will do.
The drive time doesn't affect us. If it is a race I like and my family like we will go make a weekend of it. I also live in Grants Pass so we are driving long ways to most races. So I won't complain about long drives.

Maybe we need to look at what is working at races that are doing well. What are they doing at the cross races that we could do at XC races?

Please don't take this the wrong way. I am not putting down any races. I am just brain storming with you.

Randy... Great Swag bags at the race this weekend. It is always nice to get a little something when you go to a race.
If you missed this weekends race you missed out. Great race, Great water feed stations, great course and Thank You for not having the sports do that hill 2 times. Any other day I would have been happy to do the extra climbing any other day but this 100 degree Sunday.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: bengelen@comcast.net
> To: raggy23@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:35:10 -0700
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] [OBRA Race] Is Cross Country racing dying?
>
> Randy, I think it's related to drive time.
>
> I did the State Games and I GREATLY appreciate everyone's efforts. But, Ski
> Bowl is still 1-1/2 hours from my house in Beaverton. I was gone from the
> family for the entire day.
>
> I remember MTB racing in Beaverton (Cooper Mountain) and Portland (Gabriel
> Park), back in the day.
>
> Also, I can't help but mentioning the 170 racers at the "near by" PIR short
> track last Monday. Plus, Cross races are usually close to town.
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> Brian Engelen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obrarace-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obrarace-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On Behalf Of Randy Dreiling
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:51 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org; obrarace@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Race] Is Cross Country racing dying?
>
> Hi All
>
> Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
> this is 100% about racing.
>
> Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
> way down.
>
> WHY?
>
> I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
> closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
> racers at the state games.
>
> I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
> just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
> race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
> depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
> In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
> 1993 rate.
>
> Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
> summer XC races to race cross?
>
> Why do you think it is slowing down??
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
> Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
> Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
> www.oakridgechamber.com
> Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
> Other Oregon Adventures Events
> Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
> Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
> www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRArace mailing list
> obrarace@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obrarace
> Unsubscribe: obrarace-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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McCann Family

Randy

I can only speak for our team. We pick the races we are doing as a team before the season starts. We may consider doing more races if there was a over all Team Championships for all the races combined. The drive is not the issue for us. There could be other ways to encourage complete teams to come to races. You could give a discount to teams with 5 or more riders at the races.
I really liked when there was one series. It is really easy to focus on one series and not pay any attention to the other series races.
I also like the lap courses. Not for myself, I like to bring my family to the races and the more of the race they can see, the better time they have. If the hole family is happy the more races I will do.
The drive time doesn't affect us. If it is a race I like and my family like we will go make a weekend of it. I also live in Grants Pass so we are driving long ways to most races. So I won't complain about long drives.

Maybe we need to look at what is working at races that are doing well. What are they doing at the cross races that we could do at XC races?

Please don't take this the wrong way. I am not putting down any races. I am just brain storming with you.

Randy... Great Swag bags at the race this weekend. It is always nice to get a little something when you go to a race.
If you missed this weekends race you missed out. Great race, Great water feed stations, great course and Thank You for not having the sports do that hill 2 times. Any other day I would have been happy to do the extra climbing any other day but this 100 degree Sunday.

> From: bengelen@comcast.net> To: raggy23@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:35:10 -0700> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] [OBRA Race] Is Cross Country racing dying?> > Randy, I think it's related to drive time.> > I did the State Games and I GREATLY appreciate everyone's efforts. But, Ski> Bowl is still 1-1/2 hours from my house in Beaverton. I was gone from the> family for the entire day.> > I remember MTB racing in Beaverton (Cooper Mountain) and Portland (Gabriel> Park), back in the day.> > Also, I can't help but mentioning the 170 racers at the "near by" PIR short> track last Monday. Plus, Cross races are usually close to town.> > Thanks for reading,> > Brian Engelen > > > -----Original Message-----> From: obrarace-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obrarace-bounces@list.obra.org]> On Behalf Of Randy Dreiling> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:51 AM> To: obra@list.obra.org; obrarace@list.obra.org> Subject: [OBRA Race] Is Cross Country racing dying?> > Hi All> > Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as> this is 100% about racing.> > Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are> way down.> > WHY?> > I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the> closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60> racers at the state games.> > I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is> just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the> race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most> depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.> In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the> 1993 rate.> > Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the> summer XC races to race cross?> > Why do you think it is slowing down??> > Thanks> > > Randy Dreiling > Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com > Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce > www.oakridgechamber.com > Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com > Other Oregon Adventures Events > Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass > Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series > www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers> > __________________________________________________> Do You Yahoo!?> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________> OBRArace mailing list> obrarace@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obrarace> Unsubscribe: obrarace-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_________________________________________________________________
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Brian Engelen

Randy, I think it's related to drive time.

I did the State Games and I GREATLY appreciate everyone's efforts. But, Ski
Bowl is still 1-1/2 hours from my house in Beaverton. I was gone from the
family for the entire day.

I remember MTB racing in Beaverton (Cooper Mountain) and Portland (Gabriel
Park), back in the day.

Also, I can't help but mentioning the 170 racers at the "near by" PIR short
track last Monday. Plus, Cross races are usually close to town.

Thanks for reading,

Brian Engelen

-----Original Message-----
From: obrarace-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obrarace-bounces@list.obra.org]
On Behalf Of Randy Dreiling
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:51 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org; obrarace@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Race] Is Cross Country racing dying?

Hi All

Hope you don't mind me putting this on OBRA race as
this is 100% about racing.

Minus the Bend area, cross country racing numbers are
way down.

WHY?

I would have guessed gas prices, but Mt Hood is the
closest race for many racers, yet there were only 60
racers at the state games.

I have heard people say race fee's are up, BUT that is
just not true, I have race flyers from 1993 and the
race fee is the same or went up by $5 at most
depending on your classes, this includes the late fee.
In fact Hood's fee is now $15, which is less then the
1993 rate.

Is cyclecross getting so big people are skipping the
summer XC races to race cross?

Why do you think it is slowing down??

Thanks

Randy Dreiling
Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
www.oakridgechamber.com
Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
Other Oregon Adventures Events
Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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