GEORGE SCHRECK

What is the issue. PIR seems to be able to accommodate both events on Monday, and it is nice to have options.

----Original Message----
From: mike.murray@obra.org
Date: 07/25/2006 6:38 PM
To:
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Message

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There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a single race at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue" or , for that matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this specific proposal is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short track race on the same dates.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Martin Baker
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Quote:
“2 New Items
A. Venue Protection
Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per
day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday”


Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin

Jonathan Maus

I think the promoters should work with each other instead of against each other.

Why not combine budgets and resources, coordinate schedules, have "Best all-around rider" competitions...make it a big, cross-discipline, weekly racing festival.

we should work towards a larger pie, not fight over the pieces.

Luciano bailey

Having two events running at the same time seems to add logistical ease and
a touch of cllass to the OBRA race schene. I am not sure exactlly what would
prompt such a suggestion if it is numbers at Monday PIR then maybe more
effort to increasse novice and womens fields could be accomplished another
way.

>From: "Long, Steve"
>To:
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:22:44 -0700
>
>I would agree that Short Track racing shouldn't be moved to another day
>just because there is road racing on Mondy at PIR. They should both be
>able to coexist peacefully.
>
>________________________________
>
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>Behalf Of Brice Gary
>Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:54 PM
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
>
>
>This sounds like a very bad idea. If I lived in Portland I would love
>to have the multiple options - road, track, mtb - for racing during the
>week. Maybe somebody can post the genesis of this proposal?
>
>I would also like to see OBRA support keeping weekday racing as
>affordable as possible. I expect that raising weekday fees to weekend
>levels would dramatically reduce the number of participants at most
>weekday events.
>
>
>Brice Gary
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mike Murray
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 6:39 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
>
> There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a
>single race at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue"
>or , for that matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this
>specific proposal is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short
>track race on the same dates.
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Martin Baker
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
>
>
> Quote:
>
> "2 New Items
>
> A. Venue Protection
>
> Proposal to limit number of events at a
>specific venue per
>
> day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or
>Tuesday"
>
>
>
>
>
> Can somebody explain this, please?
>
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Long, Steve

I would agree that Short Track racing shouldn't be moved to another day
just because there is road racing on Mondy at PIR. They should both be
able to coexist peacefully.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Brice Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:54 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

This sounds like a very bad idea. If I lived in Portland I would love
to have the multiple options - road, track, mtb - for racing during the
week. Maybe somebody can post the genesis of this proposal?

I would also like to see OBRA support keeping weekday racing as
affordable as possible. I expect that raising weekday fees to weekend
levels would dramatically reduce the number of participants at most
weekday events.

Brice Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 6:39 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection


There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a
single race at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue"
or , for that matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this
specific proposal is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short
track race on the same dates.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Martin Baker
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Quote:

"2 New Items

A. Venue Protection

Proposal to limit number of events at a
specific venue per

day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or
Tuesday"

Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin

jakebigham

In the two cents department, here's mine (in case any OBRA board
members are reading):

Yes to the paying for OBRA equipment on week days - that makes
sense. Since cloning Candi, is not currently possible OBRA needs the
ability to pay people

on the question of venue protection - I don't get it. Why? Unless
someone has a very compelling reason it sounds like a bad idea.
-Jake Bigham

On Jul 25, 2006, at 11:20 PM, Candi Murray wrote:

> Am I missing something? I never saw where there was a proposal to
> mandate higher fees to the riders.
> There is a proposal to change the weeknight fees that just 3 the
> organizers pay. Monday PIR, Tuesday PIR and Wed Tabor have not
> been paying for the equipment check out or their use of the truck.
> OBRA has been picking up the fees for them. This benefit to them
> was given many years ago when we were trying to encourage
> participation. These events have grown since then and now it is
> time that they paid the same way that the weekend races do. This
> would mean an increase of $85 per night.
> In order to get a replacement for my position, the compensation
> will have to increase. In order to do this, OBRA cannot continue
> to subsidize events that no longer need it.
>
>
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Craig Austin
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:17 PM
> To: mike.murray@obra.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
> So let me get this straight. Sounds like Someone wants to prevent
> short track racing during the ROAD races. And Someone (maybe the
> same Someone?) wants OBRA to mandate higher fees for weekday ROAD
> races (to keep them in line with weekend race fees). Those rule
> changes sound quite beneficial to Someone, not necessarily to OBRA
> members as a whole. Perhaps Someone can enlighten us on how this is
> a benefit to all the Oregon cyclists.
>
> Craig Austin
>
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
> Sent: Tue 7/25/2006 6:38 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
> There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a
> single race at a single venue. There is no definition of "single
> venue" or , for that matter "single event" in the proposal. The
> focus of this specific proposal is to prohibit having both the PIR
> road and short track race on the same dates.
>
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Martin Baker
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
> Quote:
>
> “2 New Items
>
> A. Venue Protection
>
> Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per
>
> day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday”
>
>
>
> Can somebody explain this, please?
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Joe Cipale

From my observation about Short-trackers and Roadies on PIR: There has not
been a single instance of a collision between the two during a race at PIR.

Everyone who crosses the course to get to the parking lot is warned about
any ongoing race/upcoming field and they take the necessary precautions to
safely navigate the track.

Joe

Andrew Beehler wrote:

> If it comes down to the "Danger" factor, the MTBers can cross over the track
> on the foot bridge, right? Then there will be absolutely no interaction
> between the two groups.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of JOHN FORBES
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:20 PM
> To: mike.murray@obra.org; Craig Austin
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
>
>
> Frankly I can conjure up no justification for forcing a one event only rule
> on OBRA. Particularly at PIR where parking is certainly not the issue.
>
> I hope no one is claiming the Short Track riders are somehow endangering the
> road riders. I'd find that hard to swallow.
>
> John Forbes
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Craig Austin
>
> To: mike.murray@obra.org
>
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:17 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
>
>
> So let me get this straight. Sounds like Someone wants to prevent short
> track racing during the ROAD races. And Someone (maybe the same Someone?)
> wants OBRA to mandate higher fees for weekday ROAD races (to keep them in
> line with weekend race fees). Those rule changes sound quite beneficial to
> Someone, not necessarily to OBRA members as a whole. Perhaps Someone can
> enlighten us on how this is a benefit to all the Oregon cyclists.
>
>
>
> Craig Austin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
> Sent: Tue 7/25/2006 6:38 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
> There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a single race
> at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue" or , for that
> matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this specific proposal
> is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short track race on the same
> dates.
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Martin Baker
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
> Quote:
>
> "2 New Items
>
> A. Venue Protection
>
> Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per
>
> day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday"
>
>
>
>
>
> Can somebody explain this, please?
>
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Craig Austin

Ah, I misunderstood the wording of that one. My apologies.

Craig

________________________________

From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmurray@obra.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 11:21 PM
To: Craig Austin; obra
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Am I missing something? I never saw where there was a proposal to
mandate higher fees to the riders.
There is a proposal to change the weeknight fees that just 3 the
organizers pay. Monday PIR, Tuesday PIR and Wed Tabor have not been
paying for the equipment check out or their use of the truck. OBRA has
been picking up the fees for them. This benefit to them was given many
years ago when we were trying to encourage participation. These events
have grown since then and now it is time that they paid the same way
that the weekend races do. This would mean an increase of $85 per night.
In order to get a replacement for my position, the compensation will
have to increase. In order to do this, OBRA cannot continue to
subsidize events that no longer need it.

Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Craig Austin
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:17 PM
To: mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection


So let me get this straight. Sounds like Someone wants to
prevent short track racing during the ROAD races. And Someone (maybe the
same Someone?) wants OBRA to mandate higher fees for weekday ROAD races
(to keep them in line with weekend race fees). Those rule changes sound
quite beneficial to Someone, not necessarily to OBRA members as a whole.
Perhaps Someone can enlighten us on how this is a benefit to all the
Oregon cyclists.

Craig Austin

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
Sent: Tue 7/25/2006 6:38 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection


There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a
single race at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue"
or , for that matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this
specific proposal is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short
track race on the same dates.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Martin Baker
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Quote:

"2 New Items

A. Venue Protection

Proposal to limit number of events at a
specific venue per

day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or
Tuesday"

Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin

John Lombard

Thank you for the clarification. Should stop a lot of the creative assumptions
that have been going on.

Quoting Candi Murray :

> Am I missing something? I never saw where there was a proposal to mandate
> higher fees to the riders.
> There is a proposal to change the weeknight fees that just 3 the organizers
> pay. Monday PIR, Tuesday PIR and Wed Tabor have not been paying for the
> equipment check out or their use of the truck. OBRA has been picking up the
> fees for them. This benefit to them was given many years ago when we were
> trying to encourage participation. These events have grown since then and
> now it is time that they paid the same way that the weekend races do. This
> would mean an increase of $85 per night.
> In order to get a replacement for my position, the compensation will have to
> increase. In order to do this, OBRA cannot continue to subsidize events
> that no longer need it.
>
>
>
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Craig Austin
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:17 PM
> To: mike.murray@obra.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
>
> So let me get this straight. Sounds like Someone wants to prevent short
> track racing during the ROAD races. And Someone (maybe the same Someone?)
> wants OBRA to mandate higher fees for weekday ROAD races (to keep them in
> line with weekend race fees). Those rule changes sound quite beneficial to
> Someone, not necessarily to OBRA members as a whole. Perhaps Someone can
> enlighten us on how this is a benefit to all the Oregon cyclists.
>
> Craig Austin
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
> Sent: Tue 7/25/2006 6:38 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
>
> There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a single race
> at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue" or , for that
> matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this specific proposal
> is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short track race on the same
> dates.
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Martin Baker
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection
>
>
>
> Quote:
>
> "2 New Items
>
> A. Venue Protection
>
> Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per
>
> day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday"
>
>
>
>
>
> Can somebody explain this, please?
>
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Candi Murray

Am I missing something? I never saw where there was a proposal to mandate
higher fees to the riders.
There is a proposal to change the weeknight fees that just 3 the organizers
pay. Monday PIR, Tuesday PIR and Wed Tabor have not been paying for the
equipment check out or their use of the truck. OBRA has been picking up the
fees for them. This benefit to them was given many years ago when we were
trying to encourage participation. These events have grown since then and
now it is time that they paid the same way that the weekend races do. This
would mean an increase of $85 per night.
In order to get a replacement for my position, the compensation will have to
increase. In order to do this, OBRA cannot continue to subsidize events
that no longer need it.

Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Craig Austin
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:17 PM
To: mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

So let me get this straight. Sounds like Someone wants to prevent short
track racing during the ROAD races. And Someone (maybe the same Someone?)
wants OBRA to mandate higher fees for weekday ROAD races (to keep them in
line with weekend race fees). Those rule changes sound quite beneficial to
Someone, not necessarily to OBRA members as a whole. Perhaps Someone can
enlighten us on how this is a benefit to all the Oregon cyclists.

Craig Austin

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
Sent: Tue 7/25/2006 6:38 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a single race
at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue" or , for that
matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this specific proposal
is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short track race on the same
dates.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Martin Baker
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Quote:

"2 New Items

A. Venue Protection

Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per

day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday"

Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin

Andrew Beehler

If it comes down to the "Danger" factor, the MTBers can cross over the track
on the foot bridge, right? Then there will be absolutely no interaction
between the two groups.

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of JOHN FORBES
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:20 PM
To: mike.murray@obra.org; Craig Austin
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Frankly I can conjure up no justification for forcing a one event only rule
on OBRA. Particularly at PIR where parking is certainly not the issue.

I hope no one is claiming the Short Track riders are somehow endangering the
road riders. I'd find that hard to swallow.

John Forbes

----- Original Message -----

From: Craig Austin

To: mike.murray@obra.org

Cc: obra@list.obra.org

Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:17 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

So let me get this straight. Sounds like Someone wants to prevent short
track racing during the ROAD races. And Someone (maybe the same Someone?)
wants OBRA to mandate higher fees for weekday ROAD races (to keep them in
line with weekend race fees). Those rule changes sound quite beneficial to
Someone, not necessarily to OBRA members as a whole. Perhaps Someone can
enlighten us on how this is a benefit to all the Oregon cyclists.

Craig Austin

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
Sent: Tue 7/25/2006 6:38 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a single race
at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue" or , for that
matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this specific proposal
is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short track race on the same
dates.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Martin Baker
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Quote:

"2 New Items

A. Venue Protection

Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per

day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday"

Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser

Weekend races happen once a year. Their promoters put all of their eggs into that one basket. Weekday races go on for months with a HUGE commitment from their promoters. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges, there is no comparison.
I would like to say that the weekend races should bring their entry fees down to what the weekday races charge but that would bring down any potential profit to the point that nobody would want to put on a race on a weekend. That would not be fair to them. Yet it is not fair for them to ask that weekday races come into line with their entry fees because we depend on people being able to come out every week. If people don't come back then there will be no weekday racing.
Weekday races are designed to be more of a "Training Race" whereas the weekend races are meant to be "The Big Show" type of race. The ones that the weekday races prepare you for. Again there is no comparison.
Oregon has the best racing, both in quantity and quality, in the entire USA!!! It is that way because of both the weekend and weekday races that so many great folks promote. Leave it all alone. If you can't put on a race for the amount of entry that is customary to that type of race then don't, somebody else will because this is OBRA and OBRA kicks it.
Steve Truesdale
Tuesday Juniors and Masters
Racing at Alpenrose Velodrome

Brice Gary wrote:
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This sounds like a very bad idea. If I lived in Portland I would love to have the multiple options - road, track, mtb - for racing during the week. Maybe somebody can post the genesis of this proposal?

I would also like to see OBRA support keeping weekday racing as affordable as possible. I expect that raising weekday fees to weekend levels would dramatically reduce the number of participants at most weekday events.

Brice Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 6:39 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a single race at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue" or , for that matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this specific proposal is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short track race on the same dates.


Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Martin Baker
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Quote:
?2 New Items
A. Venue Protection
Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per
day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday?


Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin

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JOHN FORBES

MessageFrankly I can conjure up no justification for forcing a one event only rule on OBRA. Particularly at PIR where parking is certainly not the issue.
I hope no one is claiming the Short Track riders are somehow endangering the road riders. I'd find that hard to swallow.
John Forbes
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Austin
To: mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

So let me get this straight. Sounds like Someone wants to prevent short track racing during the ROAD races. And Someone (maybe the same Someone?) wants OBRA to mandate higher fees for weekday ROAD races (to keep them in line with weekend race fees). Those rule changes sound quite beneficial to Someone, not necessarily to OBRA members as a whole. Perhaps Someone can enlighten us on how this is a benefit to all the Oregon cyclists.

Craig Austin

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
Sent: Tue 7/25/2006 6:38 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a single race at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue" or , for that matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this specific proposal is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short track race on the same dates.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Martin Baker
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Quote:

"2 New Items

A. Venue Protection

Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per

day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday"

Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Craig Austin

So let me get this straight. Sounds like Someone wants to prevent short track racing during the ROAD races. And Someone (maybe the same Someone?) wants OBRA to mandate higher fees for weekday ROAD races (to keep them in line with weekend race fees). Those rule changes sound quite beneficial to Someone, not necessarily to OBRA members as a whole. Perhaps Someone can enlighten us on how this is a benefit to all the Oregon cyclists.

Craig Austin

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
Sent: Tue 7/25/2006 6:38 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a single race at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue" or , for that matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this specific proposal is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short track race on the same dates.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Martin Baker
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Quote:

"2 New Items

A. Venue Protection

Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per

day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday"

Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin

Jon Myers

This Venue Protection measure seems to be all about trying to reduce competition between events, even if is not at all the same type of racing.
My question would be where to draw the line? As a promoter, I would like to make sure that there were no other bicycle events on the same weekend that our club puts on its mountain bike race, but that is often not possible. For example, this year the Race at Reehers shared the same weekend with the OBRA TTT championship, a mountain bike race near Grants Pass, and a criterium in Portland on the same day within 50 miles of our race. I am sure that there were people who went to the criterium instead of our moutain bike race because the events happened on the same day and were within 50 miles of each other.
So, should OBRA also make sure that there is not a road event within 100 miles of a mountain bike event on the same day? That might help the attendance at either race, but by how much? I bet the promoter that gets exclusive rights to that day will benefit by a few more people, but will that benefit the entire racing community?
I know that there are a lot more people racing bicycles on Monday night when there are both a road race and mountain bike race at PIR than when there is only one or the other.
What is the definition of a venue? Would a mountain bike race on the other side of the freeway at East Delta park also be too close? They are both called Delta
There have been mountain bike races at PIR during the Monday and Tuesday night road races at least 3 different times over the last 15 years. About 12 or 13 years ago there was a mountain bike race on Tuesdays in the same general area as the short track races today. There was also a mountain bike race on Mondays 3 or 4 years ago.
I would personally be bummed if OBRA decided to limit what type of racing I can do on Mondays at PIR. I would rather decide myself depending upon if I feel like racing my road bike or mounain bike.
-Jon Myers

Brice Gary

This sounds like a very bad idea. If I lived in Portland I would love to
have the multiple options - road, track, mtb - for racing during the week.
Maybe somebody can post the genesis of this proposal?

I would also like to see OBRA support keeping weekday racing as affordable
as possible. I expect that raising weekday fees to weekend levels would
dramatically reduce the number of participants at most weekday events.

Brice Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 6:39 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a single race
at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue" or , for that
matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this specific proposal
is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short track race on the same
dates.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Martin Baker
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Quote:

"2 New Items

A. Venue Protection

Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per

day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday"

Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin

Tim Schauer

My opinion is.....

*
PIR is not a single "venue".
*
PIR likely has at least three "venues" on that property
*
A rule that positions a one promoter or one event in such a manner so as to block access to another unused portion of said "venue" for alternate racing such as the short track course within the road race track doesn't feel like an open free market.
*
If intended for this purpose, I say..."no"

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
Sent: Tue 7/25/2006 6:38 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a single race at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue" or , for that matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this specific proposal is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short track race on the same dates.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Martin Baker
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Quote:

"2 New Items

A. Venue Protection

Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per

day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday"

Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin

Mike Murray

There is a proposal to the OBRA board that OBRA only support a single race
at a single venue. There is no definition of "single venue" or , for that
matter "single event" in the proposal. The focus of this specific proposal
is to prohibit having both the PIR road and short track race on the same
dates.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Martin Baker
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 23:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Venue Protection

Quote:

"2 New Items

A. Venue Protection

Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per

day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday"

Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin

Martin Baker

Quote:

"2 New Items

A. Venue Protection

Proposal to limit number of events at a specific venue per

day. i.e. no short track at PIR Monday or Tuesday"

Can somebody explain this, please?

Martin