Malcolm, Gary

Having risen through the ranks to CAT 3 I have seen (and done) my fair share
of 'sketchy' riding.

I recently had the pleasure of riding the State Championship RR in the open
division. This was a truly eye-opening experience! The riding was extremely
cordial, quiet, safe and smooth yet the peloton was much faster and more
closely packed than anything I had previously experienced. I had thought
that racing the top division would be differentiated by demanding the best
fitness... now I see that with skill and experience, safety is also greatly
increased.

Gary Malcolm

-----Original Message-----
From: Shane Stent [mailto:sstent@msn.com]
Sent: July 26, 2006 2:42 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] mon pir crash fest

Having personally been part of the "crash fest," I am actually moved by the
amount of honor that some of the riders in the 4/5's display when coming
forward about a crash. This is the same honor that seems to go away from the

1/2/3's. Sad.

You know who you are. My concussion and seperated shoulder know who you are.

Even if you believe you are not at fault, the honorable thing to do is to
come forward.

Shane

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Luciano bailey"
To: Montyh@tvapdx.com, obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] mon pir crash fest
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:54:28 +0000

The recent series of crashes at PIR and the track leads me to one conclusion
all racers should be forced to watch a red asphalt like version of a bike
crash film. The amount of totally unesscessary pridefull jockeying lately is
out of control. It is about respect for the sport, fellow racers, orginizers
and medical staff who end up treating victims. Those of us who witnessed the
worst that can happen at a bike race last year will never forget how little
bike racing meant at that moment. That said race hard , race to win,
understand that not every day willl be your day and always keep the rubber
side down.

>From: "Monty Hill"
>To:
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] mon pir crash fest
>Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:27:24 -0700
>
>Hey Keith, how ya doing? Missed you on sunday
>
>I would agree with your sentiment that we all take on a certain amount of
>risk when we race. I have raced cars, motorcycles, and bicycles and so
far
>have never been in a crash.
>
>Almost all the crashes or close calls I have witnessed were avoidable. I
>have witnessed more close call in my last 10 bicycle races than in the
last
>10 years of racing motorcycles. I will accept someone pushing themselves
>hard and slipping on their line because of effort, but most of the time it
>is outright cutting someone off, knowing they are there and altering their
>forward progress. Not cool in car racing (except NASCAR), not acceptable
>in motorcycle racing and against OBRA rules in bicycle racing. Think
about
>someone like Floyd Landis, how much respect would we have for him if every
>win he gets was because he forced the other guy over the cliff by cutting
>him off.
>
>I love racing, but will never think winning important enough, to cut
>someone off and risk putting myself or someone else out for a season, miss
>a month of work or have to live with body parts that no longer work the
way
>they are suppose to. All this thoughtlessness just so some amateur can
say
>he is better than me.
>
>We are suppose to be having fun. I would not think it anymore acceptable
>to cut across one of my buddies front wheels on a group ride than to do it
>while racing. I know about 30% of the racers and would never think to do
>it to them or anyone else.
>
> >>> "Keith A. Prior" 7/26/2006 11:27 am >>>
>My god people!!!
>
>It's bicycle racing!!!
>
>Crashes have always happened and they will continue to happen no matter
who
>you are or where you race.
>
>Where there are people racing bikes and learning to race bikes there will
>be
>crashes.
>
>I even saw two guys crash in the warm up area at PIR last night! (hope
you
>two are ok)
>
>No big mystery to solve here!
>No one to blame or report to the officials.
>
>It's all about momentum and every once in a while someone's momentum gets
>interrupted.
>
>It's amazing it does not happen more often.
>
>
>There, I said it!
>
>-K
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
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Shane Stent

Having personally been part of the "crash fest," I am actually moved by the
amount of honor that some of the riders in the 4/5's display when coming
forward about a crash. This is the same honor that seems to go away from the
1/2/3's. Sad.

You know who you are. My concussion and seperated shoulder know who you are.
Even if you believe you are not at fault, the honorable thing to do is to
come forward.

Shane

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Luciano bailey"
To: Montyh@tvapdx.com, obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] mon pir crash fest
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:54:28 +0000

The recent series of crashes at PIR and the track leads me to one conclusion
all racers should be forced to watch a red asphalt like version of a bike
crash film. The amount of totally unesscessary pridefull jockeying lately is
out of control. It is about respect for the sport, fellow racers, orginizers
and medical staff who end up treating victims. Those of us who witnessed the
worst that can happen at a bike race last year will never forget how little
bike racing meant at that moment. That said race hard , race to win,
understand that not every day willl be your day and always keep the rubber
side down.

>From: "Monty Hill"
>To:
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] mon pir crash fest
>Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:27:24 -0700
>
>Hey Keith, how ya doing? Missed you on sunday
>
>I would agree with your sentiment that we all take on a certain amount of
>risk when we race. I have raced cars, motorcycles, and bicycles and so
far
>have never been in a crash.
>
>Almost all the crashes or close calls I have witnessed were avoidable. I
>have witnessed more close call in my last 10 bicycle races than in the
last
>10 years of racing motorcycles. I will accept someone pushing themselves
>hard and slipping on their line because of effort, but most of the time it
>is outright cutting someone off, knowing they are there and altering their
>forward progress. Not cool in car racing (except NASCAR), not acceptable
>in motorcycle racing and against OBRA rules in bicycle racing. Think
about
>someone like Floyd Landis, how much respect would we have for him if every
>win he gets was because he forced the other guy over the cliff by cutting
>him off.
>
>I love racing, but will never think winning important enough, to cut
>someone off and risk putting myself or someone else out for a season, miss
>a month of work or have to live with body parts that no longer work the
way
>they are suppose to. All this thoughtlessness just so some amateur can
say
>he is better than me.
>
>We are suppose to be having fun. I would not think it anymore acceptable
>to cut across one of my buddies front wheels on a group ride than to do it
>while racing. I know about 30% of the racers and would never think to do
>it to them or anyone else.
>
> >>> "Keith A. Prior" 7/26/2006 11:27 am >>>
>My god people!!!
>
>It's bicycle racing!!!
>
>Crashes have always happened and they will continue to happen no matter
who
>you are or where you race.
>
>Where there are people racing bikes and learning to race bikes there will
>be
>crashes.
>
>I even saw two guys crash in the warm up area at PIR last night! (hope
you
>two are ok)
>
>No big mystery to solve here!
>No one to blame or report to the officials.
>
>It's all about momentum and every once in a while someone's momentum gets
>interrupted.
>
>It's amazing it does not happen more often.
>
>
>There, I said it!
>
>-K
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

Luciano bailey

The recent series of crashes at PIR and the track leads me to one conclusion
all racers should be forced to watch a red asphalt like version of a bike
crash film. The amount of totally unesscessary pridefull jockeying lately is
out of control. It is about respect for the sport, fellow racers, orginizers
and medical staff who end up treating victims. Those of us who witnessed the
worst that can happen at a bike race last year will never forget how little
bike racing meant at that moment. That said race hard , race to win,
understand that not every day willl be your day and always keep the rubber
side down.

>From: "Monty Hill"
>To:
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] mon pir crash fest
>Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:27:24 -0700
>
>Hey Keith, how ya doing? Missed you on sunday
>
>I would agree with your sentiment that we all take on a certain amount of
>risk when we race. I have raced cars, motorcycles, and bicycles and so far
>have never been in a crash.
>
>Almost all the crashes or close calls I have witnessed were avoidable. I
>have witnessed more close call in my last 10 bicycle races than in the last
>10 years of racing motorcycles. I will accept someone pushing themselves
>hard and slipping on their line because of effort, but most of the time it
>is outright cutting someone off, knowing they are there and altering their
>forward progress. Not cool in car racing (except NASCAR), not acceptable
>in motorcycle racing and against OBRA rules in bicycle racing. Think about
>someone like Floyd Landis, how much respect would we have for him if every
>win he gets was because he forced the other guy over the cliff by cutting
>him off.
>
>I love racing, but will never think winning important enough, to cut
>someone off and risk putting myself or someone else out for a season, miss
>a month of work or have to live with body parts that no longer work the way
>they are suppose to. All this thoughtlessness just so some amateur can say
>he is better than me.
>
>We are suppose to be having fun. I would not think it anymore acceptable
>to cut across one of my buddies front wheels on a group ride than to do it
>while racing. I know about 30% of the racers and would never think to do
>it to them or anyone else.
>
> >>> "Keith A. Prior" 7/26/2006 11:27 am >>>
>My god people!!!
>
>It's bicycle racing!!!
>
>Crashes have always happened and they will continue to happen no matter who
>you are or where you race.
>
>Where there are people racing bikes and learning to race bikes there will
>be
>crashes.
>
>I even saw two guys crash in the warm up area at PIR last night! (hope you
>two are ok)
>
>No big mystery to solve here!
>No one to blame or report to the officials.
>
>It's all about momentum and every once in a while someone's momentum gets
>interrupted.
>
>It's amazing it does not happen more often.
>
>
>There, I said it!
>
>-K
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Monty Hill

Hey Keith, how ya doing? Missed you on sunday

I would agree with your sentiment that we all take on a certain amount of risk when we race. I have raced cars, motorcycles, and bicycles and so far have never been in a crash.

Almost all the crashes or close calls I have witnessed were avoidable. I have witnessed more close call in my last 10 bicycle races than in the last 10 years of racing motorcycles. I will accept someone pushing themselves hard and slipping on their line because of effort, but most of the time it is outright cutting someone off, knowing they are there and altering their forward progress. Not cool in car racing (except NASCAR), not acceptable in motorcycle racing and against OBRA rules in bicycle racing. Think about someone like Floyd Landis, how much respect would we have for him if every win he gets was because he forced the other guy over the cliff by cutting him off.

I love racing, but will never think winning important enough, to cut someone off and risk putting myself or someone else out for a season, miss a month of work or have to live with body parts that no longer work the way they are suppose to. All this thoughtlessness just so some amateur can say he is better than me.

We are suppose to be having fun. I would not think it anymore acceptable to cut across one of my buddies front wheels on a group ride than to do it while racing. I know about 30% of the racers and would never think to do it to them or anyone else.

>>> "Keith A. Prior" 7/26/2006 11:27 am >>>
My god people!!!

It's bicycle racing!!!

Crashes have always happened and they will continue to happen no matter who
you are or where you race.

Where there are people racing bikes and learning to race bikes there will be
crashes.

I even saw two guys crash in the warm up area at PIR last night! (hope you
two are ok)

No big mystery to solve here!
No one to blame or report to the officials.

It's all about momentum and every once in a while someone's momentum gets
interrupted.

It's amazing it does not happen more often.

There, I said it!

-K

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Keith A. Prior

My god people!!!

It's bicycle racing!!!

Crashes have always happened and they will continue to happen no matter who
you are or where you race.

Where there are people racing bikes and learning to race bikes there will be
crashes.

I even saw two guys crash in the warm up area at PIR last night! (hope you
two are ok)

No big mystery to solve here!
No one to blame or report to the officials.

It's all about momentum and every once in a while someone's momentum gets
interrupted.

It's amazing it does not happen more often.

There, I said it!

-K

Jess Mace

Unfortunately, I do not think every accident at PIR can be attributed to a specific handful of actions, as each are individual
mistakes which can be avoided for the most part. I was unlucky enough to be involved in the final sprint accident Monday night and to some degree I can say that I'm not surprised it happened. There were multiple riders doing multiple stupid moves, including but not limited to individuals sprinting to close a gap into
a group that was obviously slowing down (i.e....NOT pedaling) into a headwind, cutting riders off on the inside corners (simply yelling out "on your right!" is really not sufficient nor safe when you're riding on the red and blue paint on the corners...honestly, its one position in one corner in one moment of a very long race), lots of crossed wheels, etc. I applaud the gentleman on this forum that contacted me with an apology as he assumes he caused Monday nights large pileup...which may or may not be the case...we'll all heal, this is part of racing bikes.
the final sprint yes, everyone wants to win...fact is, only one person does and the points only go so deep so if you're not positioned well off the final corner and dont' have the strength/endurance after 30 miles (some guys have to start admitting that to themselves) to contest a top 10 final spot, then simply pedal strong, stay in a straight line, and be proud that you were able to hang, gain points in intermediate sprints, etc. If you're not new to racing, you know when you're cooked and you know when your position is either good for a sprint or not. PIR is for fun, not for trips to the ER.

Jess C. Mace
Otolaryngology Clinical and Outcomes Research
Coordinator with Dr. Timothy Smith
Head and Neck Surgery
Oregon Health & Science University
503.494.5886

>>> "Freyensee, James P" 7/25/2006 5:43 PM >>>
The problem with PIR is that it is such an easy course people can leave
their brains at home instead of taking it with them to this race. PIR
is no different than an 8-corner crit or a mountainous road-race in
terms of needing to play it smart and safe by doing things like:

-keeping your head up at all times, especially during sprints
-Always look behind you before trying to make a move with a person or
going
around a person to avoid entanglements. Quickly looking underneath
your armpit is a good way to spot if there is a front wheel there.
-call out 'on the left' or 'on the right' if there is a slower rider
ahead
of you that you are passing
-don't sit up on the final sprint if you are in front. At the same
time, don't sprint for 25th place if there are 15 people in front of
you (remember, keep your head up!).

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Monty Hill
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 4:52 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] mon pir crash fest

I ride in the 4/5 category and there seems to be a lot more crashes in
4/5's than other groups. Part of me thinks that it is due to lack of
experience but I have noticed also a blaten disregard for others safety
and no accountability for one's action. I have had too many near misses
where someone cut right in front of my front wheel causing me to alter
my forward progress. As riders stay with bicycle racing I am sure the
dangerous ones get tagged and everyone in the upper categories forces
them to be accountable. I am wondering with the more chaotic cat 4/5
with an ever changing cast of riders can there be a more immediate
course of action / reprimand for Misconduct. See current OBRA rules for
Misconduct below.

One thought is all CAT 4/5's wear numbers on their back, so when someone
cuts another off they can be report them.

My other thought is that reporting in writing within 15 mins of a race
is for me difficult because I usully ride my bike to the races. Am I to
borrow some paper and pen from the officials to write the protest?

Another suggestion might be for the race official to remind all Cat
4/5's of the below stated OBRA rule 13.2.

My final thought is to start carrying my frame pump for un-intended
purposes.

Any thoughts???

13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief
Referee. The forms of misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Dangerous Riding
- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of
another rider

14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be presented to
the Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of $10, which
will be forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15 minutes of
the protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the results of the
protest and communicate them to all parties involved.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Curt Dewees

I was there in the 4/5 crash fest" at P.I.R. last night, and I witnessed
both crashes.

Both crashes happened at almost exactly the same spot on the track: about
halfway up the long straightaway between the last turn and the finish line.
One crash happened on the final sprint of the last lap, which is somewhat
understandable, but the first crash wasn't even on a prime lap! What's up
with that?

My theory: We were racing in 95-degree heat (more or less), and it's
possible that some riders may have become dehydrated and were experiencing
the very early stages of heat stroke/heat exhaustion, which can cause mild
disorientation and lack of focus and attention to detail. This phenomenon
would make the "sketchy" riders behave even more erratically than usual.

Second, when we rounded that last sweeping corner and started up the long
straightaway to the finish line, we were always exiting a tailwind and
turning into a headwind. So the natural tendency for tired riders at the
front is to slow down by 2-3 mph. If those following close on their wheels
aren't paying close attention -- BAM!--wheels overlap and riders go down,
sometimes taking down two or three others with them.

So extreme heat + slowing down in the headwind + riders not
paying attention = 2 crashes.

On 7/25/06, Freyensee, James P wrote:
>
> The problem with PIR is that it is such an easy course people can leave
> their brains at home instead of taking it with them to this race. PIR
> is no different than an 8-corner crit or a mountainous road-race in
> terms of needing to play it smart and safe by doing things like:
>
> -keeping your head up at all times, especially during sprints
> -Always look behind you before trying to make a move with a person or
> going
> around a person to avoid entanglements. Quickly looking underneath
> your armpit is a good way to spot if there is a front wheel there.
> -call out 'on the left' or 'on the right' if there is a slower rider
> ahead
> of you that you are passing
> -don't sit up on the final sprint if you are in front. At the same
> time, don't sprint for 25th place if there are 15 people in front of
> you (remember, keep your head up!).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Monty Hill
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 4:52 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] mon pir crash fest
>
> I ride in the 4/5 category and there seems to be a lot more crashes in
> 4/5's than other groups. Part of me thinks that it is due to lack of
> experience but I have noticed also a blaten disregard for others safety
> and no accountability for one's action. I have had too many near misses
> where someone cut right in front of my front wheel causing me to alter
> my forward progress. As riders stay with bicycle racing I am sure the
> dangerous ones get tagged and everyone in the upper categories forces
> them to be accountable. I am wondering with the more chaotic cat 4/5
> with an ever changing cast of riders can there be a more immediate
> course of action / reprimand for Misconduct. See current OBRA rules for
> Misconduct below.
>
> One thought is all CAT 4/5's wear numbers on their back, so when someone
> cuts another off they can be report them.
>
> My other thought is that reporting in writing within 15 mins of a race
> is for me difficult because I usully ride my bike to the races. Am I to
> borrow some paper and pen from the officials to write the protest?
>
> Another suggestion might be for the race official to remind all Cat
> 4/5's of the below stated OBRA rule 13.2.
>
> My final thought is to start carrying my frame pump for un-intended
> purposes.
>
> Any thoughts???
>
> 13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief
> Referee. The forms of misconduct include, but are not limited to:
>
> - Dangerous Riding
> - Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of
> another rider
>
> 14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be presented to
> the Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of $10, which
> will be forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15 minutes of
> the protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the results of the
> protest and communicate them to all parties involved.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Freyensee, James P

The problem with PIR is that it is such an easy course people can leave
their brains at home instead of taking it with them to this race. PIR
is no different than an 8-corner crit or a mountainous road-race in
terms of needing to play it smart and safe by doing things like:

-keeping your head up at all times, especially during sprints
-Always look behind you before trying to make a move with a person or
going
around a person to avoid entanglements. Quickly looking underneath
your armpit is a good way to spot if there is a front wheel there.
-call out 'on the left' or 'on the right' if there is a slower rider
ahead
of you that you are passing
-don't sit up on the final sprint if you are in front. At the same
time, don't sprint for 25th place if there are 15 people in front of
you (remember, keep your head up!).

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Monty Hill
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 4:52 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] mon pir crash fest

I ride in the 4/5 category and there seems to be a lot more crashes in
4/5's than other groups. Part of me thinks that it is due to lack of
experience but I have noticed also a blaten disregard for others safety
and no accountability for one's action. I have had too many near misses
where someone cut right in front of my front wheel causing me to alter
my forward progress. As riders stay with bicycle racing I am sure the
dangerous ones get tagged and everyone in the upper categories forces
them to be accountable. I am wondering with the more chaotic cat 4/5
with an ever changing cast of riders can there be a more immediate
course of action / reprimand for Misconduct. See current OBRA rules for
Misconduct below.

One thought is all CAT 4/5's wear numbers on their back, so when someone
cuts another off they can be report them.

My other thought is that reporting in writing within 15 mins of a race
is for me difficult because I usully ride my bike to the races. Am I to
borrow some paper and pen from the officials to write the protest?

Another suggestion might be for the race official to remind all Cat
4/5's of the below stated OBRA rule 13.2.

My final thought is to start carrying my frame pump for un-intended
purposes.

Any thoughts???

13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief
Referee. The forms of misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Dangerous Riding
- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of
another rider

14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be presented to
the Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of $10, which
will be forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15 minutes of
the protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the results of the
protest and communicate them to all parties involved.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com

I think in general it is simply aresult of PIR being practically the only type of group riding a lot 4/5's in Portland area do. I know if I didn't occasionally ride with the portland wheelmen Touring Club, I would never get to do a paceline..

In general what everyone must remember is that there is always someone to your side. Never ever jerk out. This is just proper peleton etiquette that all beginners should get drilled into them when they start riding with a group or club..(key word: should..)

Usually the pack is honeycombed. Meaning usually no one is directly beside you but always overlapped beside you and you to them. If you aren't packed in then yes you can move to the side, but remember no sudden moves, cause there is always someone beside you. Yes, always, even if there isn't.

Perhaps since there are a lot of beginners, the more experienced should start teaching, chat, with those who aren't riding properly. This is sometimes hard to do though without people getting excited / tempers... I found it also hard to do when the person is older and/ or in better condition then me: they don't listen. Or also the person could have been riding for years and years, but just has never learned properly: then they especially don't listen.. ie "i've been riding for years"..

john

Monty Hill wrote:
I ride in the 4/5 category and there seems to be a lot more crashes in 4/5's than other groups. Part of me thinks that it is due to lack of experience but I have noticed also a blaten disregard for others safety and no accountability for one's action. I have had too many near misses where someone cut right in front of my front wheel causing me to alter my forward progress. As riders stay with bicycle racing I am sure the dangerous ones get tagged and everyone in the upper categories forces them to be accountable. I am wondering with the more chaotic cat 4/5 with an ever changing cast of riders can there be a more immediate course of action / reprimand for Misconduct. See current OBRA rules for Misconduct below.

One thought is all CAT 4/5's wear numbers on their back, so when someone cuts another off they can be report them.

My other thought is that reporting in writing within 15 mins of a race is for me difficult because I usully ride my bike to the races. Am I to borrow some paper and pen from the officials to write the protest?

Another suggestion might be for the race official to remind all Cat 4/5's of the below stated OBRA rule 13.2.

My final thought is to start carrying my frame pump for un-intended purposes.

Any thoughts???

13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief Referee. The forms of misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Dangerous Riding
- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of another rider

14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be presented to the Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of $10, which will be forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15 minutes of the protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the results of the protest and communicate them to all parties involved.

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Monty Hill

I ride in the 4/5 category and there seems to be a lot more crashes in 4/5's than other groups. Part of me thinks that it is due to lack of experience but I have noticed also a blaten disregard for others safety and no accountability for one's action. I have had too many near misses where someone cut right in front of my front wheel causing me to alter my forward progress. As riders stay with bicycle racing I am sure the dangerous ones get tagged and everyone in the upper categories forces them to be accountable. I am wondering with the more chaotic cat 4/5 with an ever changing cast of riders can there be a more immediate course of action / reprimand for Misconduct. See current OBRA rules for Misconduct below.

One thought is all CAT 4/5's wear numbers on their back, so when someone cuts another off they can be report them.

My other thought is that reporting in writing within 15 mins of a race is for me difficult because I usully ride my bike to the races. Am I to borrow some paper and pen from the officials to write the protest?

Another suggestion might be for the race official to remind all Cat 4/5's of the below stated OBRA rule 13.2.

My final thought is to start carrying my frame pump for un-intended purposes.

Any thoughts???

13.2 - Misconduct may be punished at the discretion of the Chief Referee. The forms of misconduct include, but are not limited to:

- Dangerous Riding
- Making an abrupt motion which interferes with the forward progress of another rider

14.3 Protests concerning incidents during the race will be presented to the Chief Referee in writing and accompanied by a fee of $10, which will be forwarded to OBRA. They must be submitted within 15 minutes of the protester's finish. The Chief Referee will decide the results of the protest and communicate them to all parties involved.

jake bos

I was one of the unlucky riders who got tangled up on the 4/5 finish Monday
night. Though I didn't break anything, my bike and hide are worse for the
wear. If anyone else knows the other riders caught in the final crash, could
you pass some contact info to me? Though I could blame it on the moon
alignment, the track seam, or poor luck, I take responsibility for the final
lap crash as I think I was the first one down. I don't remember what
happened, but I was obviously taking unnecessary risks. I feel terrible if
my poor judgement caused anyone else grief, and want to apologize. I also
want to thank those who rallied to help those injured, quite a bit of
kindness was shown.
Jake Bos