George de Randich

Shocking news!
George de Randich

-------Original Message-------

From: Martin Baker
Date: 07/27/06 10:45:54
To: 'Thomas Hoffman'; 'Ron Frerichs'; gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com;
obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought

Well that would definitely be a "performance" enhancing drug...

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Thomas Hoffman
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:23 AM
To: 'Ron Frerichs'; gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought

"...if that guy had sex 4 times the night
Before getting a bronze medal, he had to be on something"

Yeah, Viagra!

~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On
~~)(~~Behalf Of Ron Frerichs
~~)(~~Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:01 AM
~~)(~~To: gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com; obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought
~~)(~~
~~)(~~If having sex raises testosterone, why do we fall asleep afterwards,
Instead
~~)(~~of going to lift weights? Besides, if that guy had sex 4 times the
Night
~~)(~~before getting a bronze medal, he had to be on something.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~From: "Malcolm, Gary"
~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought
~~)(~~Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:36:33 -0700
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Aren't most physiological changes the result of hormonal "signaling"?
As our
~~)(~~understanding of that signaling improves, will there be a point at
Which the
~~)(~~signaling due to training will be indistinguishable from what can be
Done
~~)(~~with drugs? That is, at some point the drugs become not merely "hard
To
~~)(~~spot", but identical to natural processes, in all ways but the
Starting
~~)(~~point of the signaling.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~ For example: "[Dennis] Mitchell, an Olympic bronze medallist, claims
To
~~)(~~have personally experienced the effect having sex had on his
Testosterone
~~)(~~level. He was immediately banned from competition in 1998 after
Testing
~~)(~~positive for having higher than normal levels of testosterone in his
Body an
~~)(~~indication that he was supplementing his natural level by taking
Additional
~~)(~~doses of the hormone in order to enhance his performance. Mitchell's
~~)(~~defense, which prevailed on appeal, was that his positive drug test
Was the
~~)(~~result of having had sex four times (and drinking five bottles of
Beer) the
~~)(~~night before the test was administered"
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Better stop drinking beer...
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Gary Malcolm
~~)(~~
~~)(~~find / -name '*your_base*' -exec chown us:us {} \;
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~_______________________________________________
~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~http://list.Obra.org/mailman/listinfo/Obra
~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
~~)(~~
~~)(~~______________________________________________________________
~~)(~~___
~~)(~~Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
~~)(~~http://search.msn.click-URL.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/



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Mike Murray

No.

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2006_LIST.pdf

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ron and Dorothy Strasser
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 20:27 PM
To: Thomas Hoffman; 'Ron Frerichs'; gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com;
obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought

Is Viagra a banned substance?

Joel Morrissette

Now that would make for some stiff competition!!

On 7/28/06, Joel Wilson wrote:
>
> Research suggests that it ought to be.
> From June 23, LA Times:
>
> "The latest study, conducted in the controlled environment of a
> laboratory, measured the performance of 10 trained cyclists.
>
> Over a period of weeks, each cyclist was tested three times on a
> stationary bike at a simulated altitude of 12,700 feet. The test involved a
> six-kilometer ride against the clock. Each subject was tested with a
> placebo, a 50-milligram dose of Viagra and a 100-milligram dose.
>
> Four of the subjects — which research dubbed the drug responders — had
> significant improvements in their times with the 50-milligram dose. Their
> average time was 10 minutes, 48 seconds, compared to 15 minutes when they
> took a placebo."
>
> Full Story
>
>
>
> On 7/27/06, Ron and Dorothy Strasser wrote:
>
> Is Viagra a banned substance?
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Thomas Hoffman"
> > To: "'Ron Frerichs'" ;
> > ;
> > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:22 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought
> >
> >
> > > "...if that guy had sex 4 times the night
> > > before getting a bronze medal, he had to be on something"
> > >
> > > Yeah, Viagra!
> > >
> >
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

Joel Wilson

Research suggests that it ought to be.
From June 23, LA Times:

"The latest study, conducted in the controlled environment of a laboratory,
measured the performance of 10 trained cyclists.

Over a period of weeks, each cyclist was tested three times on a stationary
bike at a simulated altitude of 12,700 feet. The test involved a
six-kilometer ride against the clock. Each subject was tested with a
placebo, a 50-milligram dose of Viagra and a 100-milligram dose.

Four of the subjects — which research dubbed the drug responders — had
significant improvements in their times with the 50-milligram dose. Their
average time was 10 minutes, 48 seconds, compared to 15 minutes when they
took a placebo."

Full Story

On 7/27/06, Ron and Dorothy Strasser wrote:

Is Viagra a banned substance?

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Hoffman"
> To: "'Ron Frerichs'" ;
> ;
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought
>
>
> > "...if that guy had sex 4 times the night
> > before getting a bronze medal, he had to be on something"
> >
> > Yeah, Viagra!
> >
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

Is Viagra a banned substance?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Hoffman"
To: "'Ron Frerichs'" ;
;
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought

> "...if that guy had sex 4 times the night
> before getting a bronze medal, he had to be on something"
>
> Yeah, Viagra!
>
> ~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
> ~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On
> ~~)(~~Behalf Of Ron Frerichs
> ~~)(~~Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:01 AM
> ~~)(~~To: gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com; obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~If having sex raises testosterone, why do we fall asleep afterwards,
> instead
> ~~)(~~of going to lift weights? Besides, if that guy had sex 4 times the
> night
> ~~)(~~before getting a bronze medal, he had to be on something.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> ~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~Subject: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought
> ~~)(~~Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:36:33 -0700
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Aren't most physiological changes the result of hormonal
> "signaling"?
> As our
> ~~)(~~understanding of that signaling improves, will there be a point at
> which the
> ~~)(~~signaling due to training will be indistinguishable from what can be
> done
> ~~)(~~with drugs? That is, at some point the drugs become not merely "hard
> to
> ~~)(~~spot", but identical to natural processes, in all ways but the
> starting
> ~~)(~~point of the signaling.
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~ For example: "[Dennis] Mitchell, an Olympic bronze medallist,
> claims
> to
> ~~)(~~have personally experienced the effect having sex had on his
> testosterone
> ~~)(~~level. He was immediately banned from competition in 1998 after
> testing
> ~~)(~~positive for having higher than normal levels of testosterone in his
> body an
> ~~)(~~indication that he was supplementing his natural level by taking
> additional
> ~~)(~~doses of the hormone in order to enhance his performance. Mitchell's
> ~~)(~~defense, which prevailed on appeal, was that his positive drug test
> was the
> ~~)(~~result of having had sex four times (and drinking five bottles of
> beer) the
> ~~)(~~night before the test was administered"
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Better stop drinking beer...
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~Gary Malcolm
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~find / -name '*your_base*' -exec chown us:us {} \;
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~_______________________________________________
> ~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
> ~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> ~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ~~)(~~
> ~~)(~~______________________________________________________________
> ~~)(~~___
> ~~)(~~Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> ~~)(~~http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Martin Baker

Well that would definitely be a "performance" enhancing drug...

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Thomas Hoffman
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:23 AM
To: 'Ron Frerichs'; gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought

"...if that guy had sex 4 times the night
before getting a bronze medal, he had to be on something"

Yeah, Viagra!

~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On
~~)(~~Behalf Of Ron Frerichs
~~)(~~Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:01 AM
~~)(~~To: gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com; obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought
~~)(~~
~~)(~~If having sex raises testosterone, why do we fall asleep afterwards,
instead
~~)(~~of going to lift weights? Besides, if that guy had sex 4 times the
night
~~)(~~before getting a bronze medal, he had to be on something.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~From: "Malcolm, Gary"
~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought
~~)(~~Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:36:33 -0700
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Aren't most physiological changes the result of hormonal "signaling"?
As our
~~)(~~understanding of that signaling improves, will there be a point at
which the
~~)(~~signaling due to training will be indistinguishable from what can be
done
~~)(~~with drugs? That is, at some point the drugs become not merely "hard
to
~~)(~~spot", but identical to natural processes, in all ways but the
starting
~~)(~~point of the signaling.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~ For example: "[Dennis] Mitchell, an Olympic bronze medallist, claims
to
~~)(~~have personally experienced the effect having sex had on his
testosterone
~~)(~~level. He was immediately banned from competition in 1998 after
testing
~~)(~~positive for having higher than normal levels of testosterone in his
body an
~~)(~~indication that he was supplementing his natural level by taking
additional
~~)(~~doses of the hormone in order to enhance his performance. Mitchell's
~~)(~~defense, which prevailed on appeal, was that his positive drug test
was the
~~)(~~result of having had sex four times (and drinking five bottles of
beer) the
~~)(~~night before the test was administered"
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Better stop drinking beer...
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Gary Malcolm
~~)(~~
~~)(~~find / -name '*your_base*' -exec chown us:us {} \;
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~_______________________________________________
~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
~~)(~~
~~)(~~______________________________________________________________
~~)(~~___
~~)(~~Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
~~)(~~http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Thomas Hoffman

"...if that guy had sex 4 times the night
before getting a bronze medal, he had to be on something"

Yeah, Viagra!

~~)(~~-----Original Message-----
~~)(~~From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On
~~)(~~Behalf Of Ron Frerichs
~~)(~~Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:01 AM
~~)(~~To: gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com; obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought
~~)(~~
~~)(~~If having sex raises testosterone, why do we fall asleep afterwards,
instead
~~)(~~of going to lift weights? Besides, if that guy had sex 4 times the
night
~~)(~~before getting a bronze medal, he had to be on something.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~From: "Malcolm, Gary"
~~)(~~To: obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~Subject: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought
~~)(~~Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:36:33 -0700
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Aren't most physiological changes the result of hormonal "signaling"?
As our
~~)(~~understanding of that signaling improves, will there be a point at
which the
~~)(~~signaling due to training will be indistinguishable from what can be
done
~~)(~~with drugs? That is, at some point the drugs become not merely "hard
to
~~)(~~spot", but identical to natural processes, in all ways but the
starting
~~)(~~point of the signaling.
~~)(~~
~~)(~~ For example: "[Dennis] Mitchell, an Olympic bronze medallist, claims
to
~~)(~~have personally experienced the effect having sex had on his
testosterone
~~)(~~level. He was immediately banned from competition in 1998 after
testing
~~)(~~positive for having higher than normal levels of testosterone in his
body an
~~)(~~indication that he was supplementing his natural level by taking
additional
~~)(~~doses of the hormone in order to enhance his performance. Mitchell's
~~)(~~defense, which prevailed on appeal, was that his positive drug test
was the
~~)(~~result of having had sex four times (and drinking five bottles of
beer) the
~~)(~~night before the test was administered"
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Better stop drinking beer...
~~)(~~
~~)(~~Gary Malcolm
~~)(~~
~~)(~~find / -name '*your_base*' -exec chown us:us {} \;
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~
~~)(~~_______________________________________________
~~)(~~OBRA mailing list
~~)(~~obra@list.obra.org
~~)(~~http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
~~)(~~Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
~~)(~~
~~)(~~______________________________________________________________
~~)(~~___
~~)(~~Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
~~)(~~http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

Freyensee, James P

Hey all,

First I want to state that this should not have leaked. A rider is
supposed to have anonymity until the B sample is also positive. A failed
test is not that serious until the B sample also tests positive.

Second of all, there have been guys that have failed tests and were
later cleared. In the 2002 Tour of Italy Giberto Simoni failed a test
and was kicked out of the Tour. They later cleared him when they traced
his failed test to a box of chocolates from South America laced with
cocaine. Also that race Stefano Garzelli was kicked out of the Giro
when his drug test found a 1980's masking agent. He never served any
punishment other than being kicked out of that race and to this day
people think his test was tampered with. And in the 1970's Eddie Merckx
also got kicked out of a Giro due to a failed test and he swears to this
day he was set up. All those guys got a lot of pre-mature sh#$ from the
media and people that they were dopers. I doubt those people ever
apologized.

You know Greg LeMond used to melt candle wax and stick his thumbprint in
the wax to seal his pee tests to try and prevent possible tampering.

Third of all, look what happened to Team Astana when the Tour decided to
jump the gun and kick the team out base on whatever evidence authorities
had on that Spain drug bust. The entire team has been been cleared by
Spanish courts. I guarantee you those guys will be seeking damages but
nothing will replace the opportunity lost by Vinokourov to win the 2006
Tour.

I'm not defending Floyd, but I want to give him some type of fair
treatment. I know cycling has had to be tough to get rid of dopers, but
too many people want to punish riders prematurely without some fairness.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Malcolm, Gary
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:37 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought

Aren't most physiological changes the result of hormonal "signaling"? As
our understanding of that signaling improves, will there be a point at
which the signaling due to training will be indistinguishable from what
can be done with drugs? That is, at some point the drugs become not
merely "hard to spot", but identical to natural processes, in all ways
but the starting point of the signaling.

For example: "[Dennis] Mitchell, an Olympic bronze medallist, claims to
have personally experienced the effect having sex had on his
testosterone level. He was immediately banned from competition in 1998
after testing positive for having higher than normal levels of
testosterone in his body an indication that he was supplementing his
natural level by taking additional doses of the hormone in order to
enhance his performance. Mitchell's defense, which prevailed on appeal,
was that his positive drug test was the result of having had sex four
times (and drinking five bottles of beer) the night before the test was
administered"

Better stop drinking beer...

Gary Malcolm

find / -name '*your_base*' -exec chown us:us {} \;

Ron Frerichs

If having sex raises testosterone, why do we fall asleep afterwards, instead
of going to lift weights? Besides, if that guy had sex 4 times the night
before getting a bronze medal, he had to be on something.

From: "Malcolm, Gary"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Landis Doping. Food for thought
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:36:33 -0700

Aren't most physiological changes the result of hormonal "signaling"? As our
understanding of that signaling improves, will there be a point at which the
signaling due to training will be indistinguishable from what can be done
with drugs? That is, at some point the drugs become not merely "hard to
spot", but identical to natural processes, in all ways but the starting
point of the signaling.

For example: "[Dennis] Mitchell, an Olympic bronze medallist, claims to
have personally experienced the effect having sex had on his testosterone
level. He was immediately banned from competition in 1998 after testing
positive for having higher than normal levels of testosterone in his body an
indication that he was supplementing his natural level by taking additional
doses of the hormone in order to enhance his performance. Mitchell's
defense, which prevailed on appeal, was that his positive drug test was the
result of having had sex four times (and drinking five bottles of beer) the
night before the test was administered"

Better stop drinking beer...

Gary Malcolm

find / -name '*your_base*' -exec chown us:us {} \;

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

Malcolm, Gary

Aren't most physiological changes the result of hormonal "signaling"? As our
understanding of that signaling improves, will there be a point at which the
signaling due to training will be indistinguishable from what can be done
with drugs? That is, at some point the drugs become not merely "hard to
spot", but identical to natural processes, in all ways but the starting
point of the signaling.

For example: "[Dennis] Mitchell, an Olympic bronze medallist, claims to
have personally experienced the effect having sex had on his testosterone
level. He was immediately banned from competition in 1998 after testing
positive for having higher than normal levels of testosterone in his body an
indication that he was supplementing his natural level by taking additional
doses of the hormone in order to enhance his performance. Mitchell's
defense, which prevailed on appeal, was that his positive drug test was the
result of having had sex four times (and drinking five bottles of beer) the
night before the test was administered"

Better stop drinking beer...

Gary Malcolm

find / -name '*your_base*' -exec chown us:us {} \;