OBRA: OBRA Chat: crit location

jboquiren@comcast.net

2006-08-16

Discovery Bicycles USED to run an excellent weekly crit series out in Hood River in April. Tough headwinds, crosswinds, driving rain, and an excellent venue for learning pack riding.

I look forward to racing there if the organizers are looking to hold it next year.

Joseph B.

-------------- Original message --------------
From: KG

"...maybe we need a early season crit series with a developmental class?"

I'd be really interested in this. I've been wanting to try a crit (without driving to Eugene) but some of these posts don't paint a happy picture. Many of us newbies are just commuters with little group riding experience. Most of what I've learned about pack riding is from this list.

----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Perilloux
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:36:13 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] crit location

My $0.02. I raced the crawfish crit Saturday but not the championships on Sunday and noticed a lot of tenative riders in the 4/5's.....

I got tired of heavy braking at the bottom of the hill into the left turn so I tried to spend all my time up front. The left was super wide and could be taken at speed no problem. With the slowing there were close calls within the pack w/ overlaps, not holding line, etc.

Vancouver crit was an order of magnitude more technical with many quick 90's in succession and there were no close calls in the 4/5's (that I saw). I would say almost every 90 in the vancouver crit was harder than any crawfish turn.

We have track classes and PIR novice; maybe we need a early season crit series with a developmental class? I agree practice those 90's at race speed and trust the bike!
----- Original Message -----
From: twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] crit location

I will add to Darell said and say I alway took my interval day in the week prior to a crit, found a nice quiet residential street good line of sight and practice the corners and holding a line up at race speed. You have to practice holding a line, figure out where you will clip. If you practice the chances that you panic, swerve, slam on brakes is less likely.

I will add to Steve said, and say not only do we not do that many crits, the crits we do have seem to have arent that technical (ie soft corners..)

I found the Cat4/5 race very safe and fun, Always enough room to get through a corner. (try Greektown crit in Detroit, 75 plus riders, only two lines getting through one of the corners, with cobblestones ! )

Some people just need to learn (practice!) that the bike will turn, transfer some weight to the front wheel and just turn, lean that sucker, it will stick. i could feel the last lap crash about to happen, people were just packing in tight and being nervous.. Then i thought i was on a movie set as i see a guy going flying up on the back of the buick...

But really i think most people were riding great and I had a blast... .

To make totally safe, lets just do races on computrainers or rollers...

john

Darell Provencher wrote:
When I used to do a few more crits than I do today, there were three things that I did before the race, that I learned from the likes of Glenn Sanders and Tim Rutledge (and maybe David Auker, but hey, I digress). First, get there early (at least an hour ahead, 90 min is better). Second, go out and walk the course. Look for changes in pavement, loose debris, holes, and off-camber turns. Look for the best lines through the turns. Third, warm up on the course with your bike. Note best lines, where to break or accelerate. Go half speed for a few laps. Then try it out full speed for at least a lap or two. The more you know about a crit course before you race, the quicker, smarter, and safer you will be.

DP

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Joel Wilson
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 11:28 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] crit location

I agree that it's the riders. And it's the nature of crit racing. I've thought that the course may be a factor but it makes me wonder when the crashes happen in the less technical sections. Of the four races I've been in on that course I've heard that sickening cacauphony of bikes and bodies in each one. Twice at, or leading into turn one, once at turn 4 and once at 5.

But then there's been a wreck in just about every large (50+ riders, cat 3) crit that I've been in. To some extent it's a roulette and it makes me think every time, is it really worth it? One random laps of attention at the wrong time and 10 suffer. Crashing sucks. I totalled my bike and set my knees back a couple months when two guys got too close ON A STRAIGHTAWAY at King's Valley. That's bike racing, and that's life.

It could be argued that there are "safer" courses. But that one's pretty damn good overall. For average city streets they're exceptionally smooth at race pace. The corners are all clean. This ain't Nascar. It's crit racing.

It's pretty apparent that the group dynamics are different between the categories. I was in that 3's race and every time we came to the end of the straight the front of the pack would swell and we'd all stuff into turn one. I assume that was a contributing factor in the wreck you were in Kenji - right after the prime.

This wasn't as much of a factor with the smaller group in the 30-39 race. I was two wheels back from the turn 4 crash and it looked like he clipped the bale to me too. Though I was a bit more occupied with finding a safe line through the hurtling bikes than figuring out what just happened.

One thing's for sure. It's definately safer off the front. Rick Hammel's got it figured out. I wanna ride like Rick.

The Senior mens' race appeared to keep a much more consistent pace with less bunching. It sucks that they had a wreck also. It happened on the most wide open corner.

What can you do? Race your bike. Hold your line. Know if someone's on your flank. DON'T OVERLAP. Be lucky.

See you at the races,

- Joel

On 8/14/06, Candi Murray wrote:
The race has been on the same course for the last 12 years. It is not the
course, it is the riders and the riding.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of mike
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:44 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] crit location

it seems as if there were accidents in all of the men cat. at this weekends
championships, while i was sitting in the med tent after someone took out my
rear wheel in the cat. 4 race a saw 10-15 riders go down in the cat. 3 and
from reading posts there was a accident in the sr. race as well it
seems--maybe a new location next year which could handle the # of riders in
a safer manner would be something to look at
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KG

2006-08-16

"...maybe we need a early season crit series with a developmental class?"

I'd be really interested in this. I've been wanting to try a crit (without driving to Eugene) but some of these posts don't paint a happy picture. Many of us newbies are just commuters with little group riding experience. Most of what I've learned about pack riding is from this list.

----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Perilloux
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:36:13 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] crit location

My $0.02. I raced the crawfish crit Saturday but not the championships on Sunday and noticed a lot of tenative riders in the 4/5's.....

I got tired of heavy braking at the bottom of the hill into the left turn so I tried to spend all my time up front. The left was super wide and could be taken at speed no problem. With the slowing there were close calls within the pack w/ overlaps, not holding line, etc.

Vancouver crit was an order of magnitude more technical with many quick 90's in succession and there were no close calls in the 4/5's (that I saw). I would say almost every 90 in the vancouver crit was harder than any crawfish turn.

We have track classes and PIR novice; maybe we need a early season crit series with a developmental class? I agree practice those 90's at race speed and trust the bike!
----- Original Message -----
From: twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] crit location

I will add to Darell said and say I alway took my interval day in the week prior to a crit, found a nice quiet residential street good line of sight and practice the corners and holding a line up at race speed. You have to practice holding a line, figure out where you will clip. If you practice the chances that you panic, swerve, slam on brakes is less likely.

I will add to Steve said, and say not only do we not do that many crits, the crits we do have seem to have arent that technical (ie soft corners..)

I found the Cat4/5 race very safe and fun, Always enough room to get through a corner. (try Greektown crit in Detroit, 75 plus riders, only two lines getting through one of the corners, with cobblestones ! )

Some people just need to learn (practice!) that the bike will turn, transfer some weight to the front wheel and just turn, lean that sucker, it will stick. i could feel the last lap crash about to happen, people were just packing in tight and being nervous.. Then i thought i was on a movie set as i see a guy going flying up on the back of the buick...

But really i think most people were riding great and I had a blast... .

To make totally safe, lets just do races on computrainers or rollers...

john

Darell Provencher wrote:
When I used to do a few more crits than I do today, there were three things that I did before the race, that I learned from the likes of Glenn Sanders and Tim Rutledge (and maybe David Auker, but hey, I digress). First, get there early (at least an hour ahead, 90 min is better). Second, go out and walk the course. Look for changes in pavement, loose debris, holes, and off-camber turns. Look for the best lines through the turns. Third, warm up on the course with your bike. Note best lines, where to break or accelerate. Go half speed for a few laps. Then try it out full speed for at least a lap or two. The more you know about a crit course before you race, the quicker, smarter, and safer you will be.

DP