Re: hit and run driver

Mark J. Ginsberg

2006-08-26

my understand is that the driver was arrested and charged with felon hit and run.

Mark Ginsberg

Cp53x11@aol.com wrote: The attitude of staying out of the way cars even when we (cyclists) have the right to be on the road keeps drivers ignorant. We're depriving them of an opportunity to learn.
Foolish? Maybe.
I'm not so sure that somebody who is such a chicken s*** to run a bike rider off the road and leave the scene would admit to doing it on purpose. That's probably why it's always an "accident" in the eyes of the law._______________________________________________
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Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 227-2530
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

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Cp53x11@aol.com

2006-08-26

The attitude of staying out of the way cars even when we (cyclists) have the
right to be on the road keeps drivers ignorant. We're depriving them of an
opportunity to learn.
Foolish? Maybe.
I'm not so sure that somebody who is such a chicken s*** to run a bike rider
off the road and leave the scene would admit to doing it on purpose. That's
probably why it's always an "accident" in the eyes of the law.


Cp53x11@aol.com

2006-08-26

That's what I was thinking.
I'm of the mindset that if you never claim your right to do things, nobody
else is going to give it to you.
Especially a car.
Save a comment like that for yourself, your not helping anybody.


John Schader

2006-08-22

Doug,

I appreciate your concerns for the safety of the cycling community. Most people realize that cycling on the section of Hwy 219 between Newberg and Scholls is not for inexperienced cyclists who have not learned to ride in a straight line. They know caution is advised when riding on that road and the other hundreds of miles of shoulderless road throughout NW Oregon. However, Saturday's incident did not occur because the cyclist was on Hwy. 219. It occurred because the driver passed without giving any clearance to the cyclist, even though there was no oncoming traffic at the time. The driver simply refused to steer slightly to the left. (It didn't help that water was thrown at the cyclist from the truck as it passed. That bit of stupidity shows that the driver knew exactly where the cyclist was in relation to his vehicle and trailer.) Did he hit the cyclist on purpose? You be the judge.

I do not think that driver and his passengers behave that way only on Hwy 219. I doubt if it was a one time occurrence. They probably also behave that way when they drive the roads that you feel safe cycling on. Of course you are right to ride those roads, but someone could just as easily be dead right on your routes someday as well. That same boat towing pickup driver may very well do it again to someone else, somewhere else.

Most shoulderless roads are safely rideable by both cyclists and motor vehicles, including Hwy. 219 between Newberg and Scholls. Lanes are generally wide enough to allow both a vehicle and a cyclist enough room, IF THE DRIVER HUGS THE CENTER LINE. This incident would have happened on any other road in Oregon if the driver behaved in the same way in the presence of a cyclist.

What could be done that would lead to a safer cycling environment on our roads?: Just stop all cyclists from riding between Newberg and Scholls (I don't think so), or educate cyclists in how to do their part in riding safely? Remove negligent and malicious drivers from Oregon roads (the police need to help with that)? Educate all drivers on how to share the road with bicycles? As a police officer your efforts to help drivers understand the rules that govern their privilege to use the roads is appreciated. I would want you to do the same for cyclists who behave in a dangerous way.

There would be no motor vehicle / bicycle accidents if cyclists did not ride on roads. But they do ride. Both cyclists and motorists have not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to share the roads safely. We all know that. How shall we convince everyone who uses the roads of that? I know there are groups and organizations that promote safe cycling and safe motoring. Let's give them our support.

John

Doug Hormann wrote: Being a cop for the past 17 years I've seen my share of auto and bike
collisions. I can't think of one however where someone said that they hit
the cyclist on purpose. In some cases the driver was at fault, in a couple
the rider was to blame, but in every case, the car "won". You can argue law
and assert your rights until you're blue in the face, but in all too many
cases its the family of a deceased rider who is left to press the issue in
court. Did the driver of the truck towing the boat do something wrong?
Probably. Did the cyclists choose a poor route? You be the judge, but I
don't ride on 219 except to cross it and even then it makes me nervous. Hwy.
219 has a very poor safety record for cars let alone bikes and I have no
intention of being "Dead Right"!

Doug Hormann

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On
Behalf Of John
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 11:28 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] hit and run driver

I second that-Pretty lame!

John, On a more sincere note, I think this list could be used to ask advice
on
safe routes in different areas of the state. That would be a more positive
way
of sharing knowledge than the negative response you first read. It is
amazing
how many resources this email list can offer..........especially good rides.

-John Lombard

Quoting djshanks@comcast.net:

> Evan,
> Your level of sympathy and compassion is completely underwhelming. It
almost
> sounds like you are saying that cyclists deserve to get hit if they ride a
> busy road?
>
> Doug Shanks
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Evan MacKenzie"
>
> > John-
> >
> > I'm very sorry to hear the news about your ride. But I also have to ask
> > you this: What were you doing taking this group of cyclists for a
> > training ride on Hwy 219? This road is not a good road to ride on at
> > all. Yes, we as cyclists have every right to use the road. But some
> > roads are just not safe, and Hwy 219 south of Scholls is definitely one
> > of them. There is barely enough room for cars to negotiate those turns;
> > when you throw cyclists into the mix it is an accident waiting to
> > happen. I live in Hillsboro and use 219 to get to I-5 when I am heading
> > south. Every time I drive that road I think about how cool it would be
> > to ride it. But then I think about how little room there is on that
> > road, and how crazy the people I see riding it are to put themselves out
> > there. I don't have that big a car, and passing cyclists out there is
> > still not fun.
> >
> > I certainly hope everything works out for the woman who was hit, and I
> > can't say that there are any excuses for the actions of the driver. But
> > that said, I also think Hwy 219 is a very unsafe place to ride a bike.
> > This reminds me of the person who was killed recently on Lorane Hwy near
> > Eugene. People responded that the road was a very dangerous road to ride
> > on, and near misses were common. If that's so, why does everybody
> > (continue to) ride there?
> >
> > We as cyclists need to take responsibility to choose our routes wisely,
> > and sometimes that includes avoiding roads where there is a high
> > probability of conflict...even more so as the size of the group
> > increases or the skill set decreases. Just because we have a right to
> > ride somewhere does not make it intelligent to do so. As I have said
> > before, Law don't mean sh!t when you're dead.
> >
> > Let the comments fly, as I know they will...
> >
> > On a positive note, thanks to all who helped and raced Falls City
> > yesterday. Awesome course, tons o' fun. I rode an extra lap just to do
> > the descent again. And a big thanks to Bill from CyclePath for donating
> > all those great prizes.
> >
> > Evan
> >
> > ------------- __o
> > ---------- _ '\<,_
> > ----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of John Schader
> > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:12 AM
> > To: OBRA
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Help needed locating hit and run driver!
> >
> > OBRA members,
> >
> > Saturday, around noon, I was one of four cyclists descending the hill on
> > Hwy 219 North (Hillsboro - Newberg Highway), a little west of Scholls in
> > Washington County. We were 40 miles into a 65 mile training ride. I was
> > leading a group of Team in Training cyclists preparing to ride their
> > first century next month. They have been training over the past few
> > months and also raising money for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.
> >
> > We were spread out quite a bit on the descent. One of the cyclists was
> > bumped off the road by the trailer of a pickup truck towing a boat. She
> > was probably traveling a little over 20 mph when it happened. Obeying
> > the rules of the road and being as accomodating to motorists as
> > possible, she was riding close to the white painted fog line at the
> > right side of the road. The truck refused to make any allowance for the
> > cyclists it was passing and did not move to the left to give any
> > clearance even though there was no oncoming traffic. We think the boat
> > trailer contacted her, pushing her off the road and launching her from
> > her bicycle. She later said water was thrown at her as the truck passed
> > and that she was definitely struck by some part of the trailer. She was
> > thrown from her bicycle into the bottom of a ditch. The bike was found
> > laying right next to the road. That same boat trailer had brushed my
> > shoulder on its way by me and came extremely close to one of our other
> > cyclists prior to reaching the victim. After my close brush, I tried to
> > catch up to her but was quite a bit behind. Although I could see the
> > boat dangerously close to her, I did not actually see her fall. It
> > happened just after a left curve in the road, out of my sight.
> >
> > The victim's right arm is severly injured and she is expected to undergo
> > surgery today. She also has other less severe injuries. It will be
> > months before she will be able to return to normal. Her husband works
> > full time at night, and they are parents of triplet two year old
> > children.
> >
> > If anyone spots a shiny bright red late model pickup truck towing a very
> > new looking red boat, possibly a 23 foot Centurian model, please get the
> > license plate number and contact the Washington County police, and
> > myself. I know it is two days after the incident, but any information
> > will help. If the driver is caught, I would appreciate any advice from
> > those lawyer OBRA members who have so graciously offered help in the
> > past.
> >
> > More importantly, if anyone wishes to help the victim and her family in
> > some way, please contact me. We already have good people who have
> > volunteered to prepare meals, grocery shop, house clean, etc. to help
> > the husband manage the household during the long recovery.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > John Schader
> > Coach, Portland Team in Training
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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Doug Hormann

2006-08-21

Being a cop for the past 17 years I've seen my share of auto and bike
collisions. I can't think of one however where someone said that they hit
the cyclist on purpose. In some cases the driver was at fault, in a couple
the rider was to blame, but in every case, the car "won". You can argue law
and assert your rights until you're blue in the face, but in all too many
cases its the family of a deceased rider who is left to press the issue in
court. Did the driver of the truck towing the boat do something wrong?
Probably. Did the cyclists choose a poor route? You be the judge, but I
don't ride on 219 except to cross it and even then it makes me nervous. Hwy.
219 has a very poor safety record for cars let alone bikes and I have no
intention of being "Dead Right"!

Doug Hormann

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On
Behalf Of John
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 11:28 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] hit and run driver

I second that-Pretty lame!

John, On a more sincere note, I think this list could be used to ask advice
on
safe routes in different areas of the state. That would be a more positive
way
of sharing knowledge than the negative response you first read. It is
amazing
how many resources this email list can offer..........especially good rides.

-John Lombard

Quoting djshanks@comcast.net:

> Evan,
> Your level of sympathy and compassion is completely underwhelming. It
almost
> sounds like you are saying that cyclists deserve to get hit if they ride a
> busy road?
>
> Doug Shanks
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Evan MacKenzie"
>
> > John-
> >
> > I'm very sorry to hear the news about your ride. But I also have to ask
> > you this: What were you doing taking this group of cyclists for a
> > training ride on Hwy 219? This road is not a good road to ride on at
> > all. Yes, we as cyclists have every right to use the road. But some
> > roads are just not safe, and Hwy 219 south of Scholls is definitely one
> > of them. There is barely enough room for cars to negotiate those turns;
> > when you throw cyclists into the mix it is an accident waiting to
> > happen. I live in Hillsboro and use 219 to get to I-5 when I am heading
> > south. Every time I drive that road I think about how cool it would be
> > to ride it. But then I think about how little room there is on that
> > road, and how crazy the people I see riding it are to put themselves out
> > there. I don't have that big a car, and passing cyclists out there is
> > still not fun.
> >
> > I certainly hope everything works out for the woman who was hit, and I
> > can't say that there are any excuses for the actions of the driver. But
> > that said, I also think Hwy 219 is a very unsafe place to ride a bike.
> > This reminds me of the person who was killed recently on Lorane Hwy near
> > Eugene. People responded that the road was a very dangerous road to ride
> > on, and near misses were common. If that's so, why does everybody
> > (continue to) ride there?
> >
> > We as cyclists need to take responsibility to choose our routes wisely,
> > and sometimes that includes avoiding roads where there is a high
> > probability of conflict...even more so as the size of the group
> > increases or the skill set decreases. Just because we have a right to
> > ride somewhere does not make it intelligent to do so. As I have said
> > before, Law don't mean sh!t when you're dead.
> >
> > Let the comments fly, as I know they will...
> >
> > On a positive note, thanks to all who helped and raced Falls City
> > yesterday. Awesome course, tons o' fun. I rode an extra lap just to do
> > the descent again. And a big thanks to Bill from CyclePath for donating
> > all those great prizes.
> >
> > Evan
> >
> > ------------- __o
> > ---------- _ '\<,_
> > ----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of John Schader
> > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:12 AM
> > To: OBRA
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Help needed locating hit and run driver!
> >
> > OBRA members,
> >
> > Saturday, around noon, I was one of four cyclists descending the hill on
> > Hwy 219 North (Hillsboro - Newberg Highway), a little west of Scholls in
> > Washington County. We were 40 miles into a 65 mile training ride. I was
> > leading a group of Team in Training cyclists preparing to ride their
> > first century next month. They have been training over the past few
> > months and also raising money for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.
> >
> > We were spread out quite a bit on the descent. One of the cyclists was
> > bumped off the road by the trailer of a pickup truck towing a boat. She
> > was probably traveling a little over 20 mph when it happened. Obeying
> > the rules of the road and being as accomodating to motorists as
> > possible, she was riding close to the white painted fog line at the
> > right side of the road. The truck refused to make any allowance for the
> > cyclists it was passing and did not move to the left to give any
> > clearance even though there was no oncoming traffic. We think the boat
> > trailer contacted her, pushing her off the road and launching her from
> > her bicycle. She later said water was thrown at her as the truck passed
> > and that she was definitely struck by some part of the trailer. She was
> > thrown from her bicycle into the bottom of a ditch. The bike was found
> > laying right next to the road. That same boat trailer had brushed my
> > shoulder on its way by me and came extremely close to one of our other
> > cyclists prior to reaching the victim. After my close brush, I tried to
> > catch up to her but was quite a bit behind. Although I could see the
> > boat dangerously close to her, I did not actually see her fall. It
> > happened just after a left curve in the road, out of my sight.
> >
> > The victim's right arm is severly injured and she is expected to undergo
> > surgery today. She also has other less severe injuries. It will be
> > months before she will be able to return to normal. Her husband works
> > full time at night, and they are parents of triplet two year old
> > children.
> >
> > If anyone spots a shiny bright red late model pickup truck towing a very
> > new looking red boat, possibly a 23 foot Centurian model, please get the
> > license plate number and contact the Washington County police, and
> > myself. I know it is two days after the incident, but any information
> > will help. If the driver is caught, I would appreciate any advice from
> > those lawyer OBRA members who have so graciously offered help in the
> > past.
> >
> > More importantly, if anyone wishes to help the victim and her family in
> > some way, please contact me. We already have good people who have
> > volunteered to prepare meals, grocery shop, house clean, etc. to help
> > the husband manage the household during the long recovery.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > John Schader
> > Coach, Portland Team in Training
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Stephen Hemminger

2006-08-21

> We were spread out quite a bit on the descent.
Staying together actually is safer.

> One of the cyclists was
> bumped off the road by the trailer of a pickup truck towing a boat. She
> was probably traveling a little over 20 mph when it happened.

That's actually the most dangerous speed, because then car's get frustrated
and think they can pass. At really slow speeds (10) they swing around easily.
At higher speeds, you can just take the lane and only kamazike ninja bikes
try to pass.

> Obeying
> the rules of the road and being as accomodating to motorists as
> possible, she was riding close to the white painted fog line at the
> right side of the road.

Big mistake. If you read any advice on defensive/assertive cycling, you will
find out that you want to be about a third of the way into the lane. Then cars
have to find a clear way around you, and you have some escape. Don't let
them think they can sneak by you.

> The truck refused to make any allowance for the
> cyclists it was passing and did not move to the left to give any
> clearance even though there was no oncoming traffic. We think the boat
> trailer contacted her, pushing her off the road and launching her from
> her bicycle. She later said water was thrown at her as the truck passed
> and that she was definitely struck by some part of the trailer. She was
> thrown from her bicycle into the bottom of a ditch. The bike was found
> laying right next to the road. That same boat trailer had brushed my
> shoulder on its way by me and came extremely close to one of our other
> cyclists prior to reaching the victim. After my close brush, I tried to
> catch up to her but was quite a bit behind. Although I could see the
> boat dangerously close to her, I did not actually see her fall. It
> happened just after a left curve in the road, out of my sight.
>
> The victim's right arm is severly injured and she is expected to undergo
> surgery today. She also has other less severe injuries. It will be
> months before she will be able to return to normal. Her husband works
> full time at night, and they are parents of triplet two year old
> children.
>
> If anyone spots a shiny bright red late model pickup truck towing a very
> new looking red boat, possibly a 23 foot Centurian model, please get the
> license plate number and contact the Washington County police, and
> myself. I know it is two days after the incident, but any information
> will help. If the driver is caught, I would appreciate any advice from
> those lawyer OBRA members who have so graciously offered help in the
> past.

Might be worth a trip around Hagg Lake this weekend. That's the most likely
stomping grounds of such an idiot.


Brian Engelen

2006-08-21

The whole thing is depressing to me.

Help me on this one, but, I recall seeing Bi-centennial bike route signs on
that section between Scholls and Newberg. Maybe I'm way wrong. It was a
small green sign with a bike symbol that included USA in the rear wheel.

Brian


Dan H

2006-08-21

As someone with a tiny bit of ambulance, ER, lots of race 1st aid experience and having been nailed by a doctor driven Subaru myself, I totally empathize when someone is hurt on a bike.
That being said, I think Evan has a point. Many years ago when I was new to Portland I rode a stretch on 82nd ave. I only had to do that once to decide the risk / benefit ratio was stacked against me and not done it since!
----- Original Message -----
From: djshanks@comcast.net
To: Evan MacKenzie ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] hit and run driver

Evan,
Your level of sympathy and compassion is completely underwhelming. It almost sounds like you are saying that cyclists deserve to get hit if they ride a busy road?

Doug Shanks

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Evan MacKenzie"

> John-
>
> I'm very sorry to hear the news about your ride. But I also have to ask
> you this: What were you doing taking this group of cyclists for a
> training ride on Hwy 219? This road is not a good road to ride on at
> all. Yes, we as cyclists have every right to use the road. But some
> roads are just not safe, and Hwy 219 south of Scholls is definitely one
> of them. There is barely enough room for cars to negotiate those turns;
> when you throw cyclists into the mix it is an accident waiting to
> happen. I live in Hillsboro and use 219 to get to I-5 when I am heading
> south. Every time I drive that road I think about how cool it would be
> to ride it. But then I think about how little roo m ther e is on that
> road, and how crazy the people I see riding it are to put themselves out
> there. I don't have that big a car, and passing cyclists out there is
> still not fun.
>
> I certainly hope everything works out for the woman who was hit, and I
> can't say that there are any excuses for the actions of the driver. But
> that said, I also think Hwy 219 is a very unsafe place to ride a bike.
> This reminds me of the person who was killed recently on Lorane Hwy near
> Eugene. People responded that the road was a very dangerous road to ride
> on, and near misses were common. If that's so, why does everybody
> (continue to) ride there?
>
> We as cyclists need to take responsibility to choose our routes wisely,
> and sometimes that includes avoiding roads where there is a high
> probability of conflict...even more so as the size of the group
> increases or the skill set d ecreases. Just because we have a right to
> ride somewhere does not make it intelligent to do so. As I have said
> before, Law don't mean sh!t when you're dead.
>
> Let the comments fly, as I know they will...
>
> On a positive note, thanks to all who helped and raced Falls City
> yesterday. Awesome course, tons o' fun. I rode an extra lap just to do
> the descent again. And a big thanks to Bill from CyclePath for donating
> all those great prizes.
>
> Evan
>
> ------------- __o
> ---------- _ '\<,_
> ----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of John Schader
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:12 AM
> To: OBRA
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Help needed locating hit and run driver!
>
> OBRA membe rs, >
> Saturday, around noon, I was one of four cyclists descending the hill on
> Hwy 219 North (Hillsboro - Newberg Highway), a little west of Scholls in
> Washington County. We were 40 miles into a 65 mile training ride. I was
> leading a group of Team in Training cyclists preparing to ride their
> first century next month. They have been training over the past few
> months and also raising money for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.
>
> We were spread out quite a bit on the descent. One of the cyclists was
> bumped off the road by the trailer of a pickup truck towing a boat. She
> was probably traveling a little over 20 mph when it happened. Obeying
> the rules of the road and being as accomodating to motorists as
> possible, she was riding close to the white painted fog line at the
> right side of the road. The truck refused to make any allowance for the
> cyclists it was passin g and did not move to the left to give any
> clearance even though there was no oncoming traffic. We think the boat
> trailer contacted her, pushing her off the road and launching her from
> her bicycle. She later said water was thrown at her as the truck passed
> and that she was definitely struck by some part of the trailer. She was
> thrown from her bicycle into the bottom of a ditch. The bike was found
> laying right next to the road. That same boat trailer had brushed my
> shoulder on its way by me and came extremely close to one of our other
> cyclists prior to reaching the victim. After my close brush, I tried to
> catch up to her but was quite a bit behind. Although I could see the
> boat dangerously close to her, I did not actually see her fall. It
> happened just after a left curve in the road, out of my sight.
>
> The victim's right arm is severly injured and she is expected to und ergo
> surgery today. She also has other less severe injuries. It will be
> months before she will be able to return to normal. Her husband works
> full time at night, and they are parents of triplet two year old
> children.
>
> If anyone spots a shiny bright red late model pickup truck towing a very
> new looking red boat, possibly a 23 foot Centurian model, please get the
> license plate number and contact the Washington County police, and
> myself. I know it is two days after the incident, but any information
> will help. If the driver is caught, I would appreciate any advice from
> those lawyer OBRA members who have so graciously offered help in the
> past.
>
> More importantly, if anyone wishes to help the victim and her family in
> some way, please contact me. We already have good people who have
> volunteered to prepare meals, grocery shop, house clean, etc. to hel p
> the husband manage the household during the long recovery.
>
> Thank you,
> John Schader
> Coach, Portland Team in Training
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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I second that-Pretty lame!

John, On a more sincere note, I think this list could be used to ask advice on
safe routes in different areas of the state. That would be a more positive way
of sharing knowledge than the negative response you first read. It is amazing
how many resources this email list can offer..........especially good rides.

-John Lombard

Quoting djshanks@comcast.net:

> Evan,
> Your level of sympathy and compassion is completely underwhelming. It almost
> sounds like you are saying that cyclists deserve to get hit if they ride a
> busy road?
>
> Doug Shanks
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Evan MacKenzie"
>
> > John-
> >
> > I'm very sorry to hear the news about your ride. But I also have to ask
> > you this: What were you doing taking this group of cyclists for a
> > training ride on Hwy 219? This road is not a good road to ride on at
> > all. Yes, we as cyclists have every right to use the road. But some
> > roads are just not safe, and Hwy 219 south of Scholls is definitely one
> > of them. There is barely enough room for cars to negotiate those turns;
> > when you throw cyclists into the mix it is an accident waiting to
> > happen. I live in Hillsboro and use 219 to get to I-5 when I am heading
> > south. Every time I drive that road I think about how cool it would be
> > to ride it. But then I think about how little room there is on that
> > road, and how crazy the people I see riding it are to put themselves out
> > there. I don't have that big a car, and passing cyclists out there is
> > still not fun.
> >
> > I certainly hope everything works out for the woman who was hit, and I
> > can't say that there are any excuses for the actions of the driver. But
> > that said, I also think Hwy 219 is a very unsafe place to ride a bike.
> > This reminds me of the person who was killed recently on Lorane Hwy near
> > Eugene. People responded that the road was a very dangerous road to ride
> > on, and near misses were common. If that's so, why does everybody
> > (continue to) ride there?
> >
> > We as cyclists need to take responsibility to choose our routes wisely,
> > and sometimes that includes avoiding roads where there is a high
> > probability of conflict...even more so as the size of the group
> > increases or the skill set decreases. Just because we have a right to
> > ride somewhere does not make it intelligent to do so. As I have said
> > before, Law don't mean sh!t when you're dead.
> >
> > Let the comments fly, as I know they will...
> >
> > On a positive note, thanks to all who helped and raced Falls City
> > yesterday. Awesome course, tons o' fun. I rode an extra lap just to do
> > the descent again. And a big thanks to Bill from CyclePath for donating
> > all those great prizes.
> >
> > Evan
> >
> > ------------- __o
> > ---------- _ '\<,_
> > ----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of John Schader
> > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:12 AM
> > To: OBRA
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Help needed locating hit and run driver!
> >
> > OBRA members,
> >
> > Saturday, around noon, I was one of four cyclists descending the hill on
> > Hwy 219 North (Hillsboro - Newberg Highway), a little west of Scholls in
> > Washington County. We were 40 miles into a 65 mile training ride. I was
> > leading a group of Team in Training cyclists preparing to ride their
> > first century next month. They have been training over the past few
> > months and also raising money for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.
> >
> > We were spread out quite a bit on the descent. One of the cyclists was
> > bumped off the road by the trailer of a pickup truck towing a boat. She
> > was probably traveling a little over 20 mph when it happened. Obeying
> > the rules of the road and being as accomodating to motorists as
> > possible, she was riding close to the white painted fog line at the
> > right side of the road. The truck refused to make any allowance for the
> > cyclists it was passing and did not move to the left to give any
> > clearance even though there was no oncoming traffic. We think the boat
> > trailer contacted her, pushing her off the road and launching her from
> > her bicycle. She later said water was thrown at her as the truck passed
> > and that she was definitely struck by some part of the trailer. She was
> > thrown from her bicycle into the bottom of a ditch. The bike was found
> > laying right next to the road. That same boat trailer had brushed my
> > shoulder on its way by me and came extremely close to one of our other
> > cyclists prior to reaching the victim. After my close brush, I tried to
> > catch up to her but was quite a bit behind. Although I could see the
> > boat dangerously close to her, I did not actually see her fall. It
> > happened just after a left curve in the road, out of my sight.
> >
> > The victim's right arm is severly injured and she is expected to undergo
> > surgery today. She also has other less severe injuries. It will be
> > months before she will be able to return to normal. Her husband works
> > full time at night, and they are parents of triplet two year old
> > children.
> >
> > If anyone spots a shiny bright red late model pickup truck towing a very
> > new looking red boat, possibly a 23 foot Centurian model, please get the
> > license plate number and contact the Washington County police, and
> > myself. I know it is two days after the incident, but any information
> > will help. If the driver is caught, I would appreciate any advice from
> > those lawyer OBRA members who have so graciously offered help in the
> > past.
> >
> > More importantly, if anyone wishes to help the victim and her family in
> > some way, please contact me. We already have good people who have
> > volunteered to prepare meals, grocery shop, house clean, etc. to help
> > the husband manage the household during the long recovery.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > John Schader
> > Coach, Portland Team in Training
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


djshanks@comcast.net

2006-08-21

Evan,
Your level of sympathy and compassion is completely underwhelming. It almost sounds like you are saying that cyclists deserve to get hit if they ride a busy road?

Doug Shanks

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Evan MacKenzie"

> John-
>
> I'm very sorry to hear the news about your ride. But I also have to ask
> you this: What were you doing taking this group of cyclists for a
> training ride on Hwy 219? This road is not a good road to ride on at
> all. Yes, we as cyclists have every right to use the road. But some
> roads are just not safe, and Hwy 219 south of Scholls is definitely one
> of them. There is barely enough room for cars to negotiate those turns;
> when you throw cyclists into the mix it is an accident waiting to
> happen. I live in Hillsboro and use 219 to get to I-5 when I am heading
> south. Every time I drive that road I think about how cool it would be
> to ride it. But then I think about how little room there is on that
> road, and how crazy the people I see riding it are to put themselves out
> there. I don't have that big a car, and passing cyclists out there is
> still not fun.
>
> I certainly hope everything works out for the woman who was hit, and I
> can't say that there are any excuses for the actions of the driver. But
> that said, I also think Hwy 219 is a very unsafe place to ride a bike.
> This reminds me of the person who was killed recently on Lorane Hwy near
> Eugene. People responded that the road was a very dangerous road to ride
> on, and near misses were common. If that's so, why does everybody
> (continue to) ride there?
>
> We as cyclists need to take responsibility to choose our routes wisely,
> and sometimes that includes avoiding roads where there is a high
> probability of conflict...even more so as the size of the group
> increases or the skill set decreases. Just because we have a right to
> ride somewhere does not make it intelligent to do so. As I have said
> before, Law don't mean sh!t when you're dead.
>
> Let the comments fly, as I know they will...
>
> On a positive note, thanks to all who helped and raced Falls City
> yesterday. Awesome course, tons o' fun. I rode an extra lap just to do
> the descent again. And a big thanks to Bill from CyclePath for donating
> all those great prizes.
>
> Evan
>
> ------------- __o
> ---------- _ '\<,_
> ----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of John Schader
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:12 AM
> To: OBRA
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Help needed locating hit and run driver!
>
> OBRA members,
>
> Saturday, around noon, I was one of four cyclists descending the hill on
> Hwy 219 North (Hillsboro - Newberg Highway), a little west of Scholls in
> Washington County. We were 40 miles into a 65 mile training ride. I was
> leading a group of Team in Training cyclists preparing to ride their
> first century next month. They have been training over the past few
> months and also raising money for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.
>
> We were spread out quite a bit on the descent. One of the cyclists was
> bumped off the road by the trailer of a pickup truck towing a boat. She
> was probably traveling a little over 20 mph when it happened. Obeying
> the rules of the road and being as accomodating to motorists as
> possible, she was riding close to the white painted fog line at the
> right side of the road. The truck refused to make any allowance for the
> cyclists it was passing and did not move to the left to give any
> clearance even though there was no oncoming traffic. We think the boat
> trailer contacted her, pushing her off the road and launching her from
> her bicycle. She later said water was thrown at her as the truck passed
> and that she was definitely struck by some part of the trailer. She was
> thrown from her bicycle into the bottom of a ditch. The bike was found
> laying right next to the road. That same boat trailer had brushed my
> shoulder on its way by me and came extremely close to one of our other
> cyclists prior to reaching the victim. After my close brush, I tried to
> catch up to her but was quite a bit behind. Although I could see the
> boat dangerously close to her, I did not actually see her fall. It
> happened just after a left curve in the road, out of my sight.
>
> The victim's right arm is severly injured and she is expected to undergo
> surgery today. She also has other less severe injuries. It will be
> months before she will be able to return to normal. Her husband works
> full time at night, and they are parents of triplet two year old
> children.
>
> If anyone spots a shiny bright red late model pickup truck towing a very
> new looking red boat, possibly a 23 foot Centurian model, please get the
> license plate number and contact the Washington County police, and
> myself. I know it is two days after the incident, but any information
> will help. If the driver is caught, I would appreciate any advice from
> those lawyer OBRA members who have so graciously offered help in the
> past.
>
> More importantly, if anyone wishes to help the victim and her family in
> some way, please contact me. We already have good people who have
> volunteered to prepare meals, grocery shop, house clean, etc. to help
> the husband manage the household during the long recovery.
>
> Thank you,
> John Schader
> Coach, Portland Team in Training
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Evan MacKenzie

2006-08-21

John-

I'm very sorry to hear the news about your ride. But I also have to ask
you this: What were you doing taking this group of cyclists for a
training ride on Hwy 219? This road is not a good road to ride on at
all. Yes, we as cyclists have every right to use the road. But some
roads are just not safe, and Hwy 219 south of Scholls is definitely one
of them. There is barely enough room for cars to negotiate those turns;
when you throw cyclists into the mix it is an accident waiting to
happen. I live in Hillsboro and use 219 to get to I-5 when I am heading
south. Every time I drive that road I think about how cool it would be
to ride it. But then I think about how little room there is on that
road, and how crazy the people I see riding it are to put themselves out
there. I don't have that big a car, and passing cyclists out there is
still not fun.

I certainly hope everything works out for the woman who was hit, and I
can't say that there are any excuses for the actions of the driver. But
that said, I also think Hwy 219 is a very unsafe place to ride a bike.
This reminds me of the person who was killed recently on Lorane Hwy near
Eugene. People responded that the road was a very dangerous road to ride
on, and near misses were common. If that's so, why does everybody
(continue to) ride there?

We as cyclists need to take responsibility to choose our routes wisely,
and sometimes that includes avoiding roads where there is a high
probability of conflict...even more so as the size of the group
increases or the skill set decreases. Just because we have a right to
ride somewhere does not make it intelligent to do so. As I have said
before, Law don't mean sh!t when you're dead.

Let the comments fly, as I know they will...

On a positive note, thanks to all who helped and raced Falls City
yesterday. Awesome course, tons o' fun. I rode an extra lap just to do
the descent again. And a big thanks to Bill from CyclePath for donating
all those great prizes.

Evan

------------- __o
---------- _ '\<,_
----------(_)/ (_)______Get on your bikes and ride!

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of John Schader
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:12 AM
To: OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Help needed locating hit and run driver!

OBRA members,

Saturday, around noon, I was one of four cyclists descending the hill on
Hwy 219 North (Hillsboro - Newberg Highway), a little west of Scholls in
Washington County. We were 40 miles into a 65 mile training ride. I was
leading a group of Team in Training cyclists preparing to ride their
first century next month. They have been training over the past few
months and also raising money for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.

We were spread out quite a bit on the descent. One of the cyclists was
bumped off the road by the trailer of a pickup truck towing a boat. She
was probably traveling a little over 20 mph when it happened. Obeying
the rules of the road and being as accomodating to motorists as
possible, she was riding close to the white painted fog line at the
right side of the road. The truck refused to make any allowance for the
cyclists it was passing and did not move to the left to give any
clearance even though there was no oncoming traffic. We think the boat
trailer contacted her, pushing her off the road and launching her from
her bicycle. She later said water was thrown at her as the truck passed
and that she was definitely struck by some part of the trailer. She was
thrown from her bicycle into the bottom of a ditch. The bike was found
laying right next to the road. That same boat trailer had brushed my
shoulder on its way by me and came extremely close to one of our other
cyclists prior to reaching the victim. After my close brush, I tried to
catch up to her but was quite a bit behind. Although I could see the
boat dangerously close to her, I did not actually see her fall. It
happened just after a left curve in the road, out of my sight.

The victim's right arm is severly injured and she is expected to undergo
surgery today. She also has other less severe injuries. It will be
months before she will be able to return to normal. Her husband works
full time at night, and they are parents of triplet two year old
children.

If anyone spots a shiny bright red late model pickup truck towing a very
new looking red boat, possibly a 23 foot Centurian model, please get the
license plate number and contact the Washington County police, and
myself. I know it is two days after the incident, but any information
will help. If the driver is caught, I would appreciate any advice from
those lawyer OBRA members who have so graciously offered help in the
past.

More importantly, if anyone wishes to help the victim and her family in
some way, please contact me. We already have good people who have
volunteered to prepare meals, grocery shop, house clean, etc. to help
the husband manage the household during the long recovery.

Thank you,
John Schader
Coach, Portland Team in Training

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