Scott McElroy

I know that this apple has already hit another Newton in the head, and was also
probably already covered by others more educated than I. With that said, is it
possible to set up a fund that allows season passes to be sold at the beginning
of the season, and at least partially creates the necessary funding for the
promoters of each race? It would create cash flows for the OBRA administrator
compensation etc as well. It works at ski resorts, and other sporting venues,
why not cycling? The bottom line benefit is that you get the money up front,
and also there is a great chance that not all that buy a season pass will show
up to each race, which also adds to the fund. You could even pick your races
off of the OBRA website calendar, and pay in advance on credit card via a Paypal
type clearing house. Just a thought.

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf
Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 2:11 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

I agree with Steve. Most of the entry fees are paid by people who will not
place. Propoters need to survive.

Off Topic: Let's make sure the OBRA administrators are getting paid as much as
they can be.

FYI: I would ride a RR instead of a crit., every time. I might rather do a
training ride instead of a crit.

Steven R Holland wrote:

I'm probably going to regret sending this e mail but......

ATTN RACE PROMOTERS:

If you are not making any $$ at your race, CHARGE US MORE TO DO YOUR
RACE and/or STOP PAYING BIG PRIZE LISTS. Supply and demand baby. If your
race had a waiting list for some categories in 06, charge more in
07.......

Honestly, how many of you racers reading this e mail would stop racing
if there were NO cash prize lists? 5?...10?...20?....I promise, we won't
miss you if you stop racing :-)

I would say 95% of us, or more, do not race for prize $$$ anyways.

Columbia Plateau SR pays "almost" nothing [no offence Mark] and they
have a HUGE turn out because it's an AWESOME race. In Washington the
Mason Lake series [Their version of a BB series] pays NOTHING and they
have huge fields, right David?

When you figure in gas, hotel etc., the entry fee is not a huge % of the
total cost in "most" cases.

From: ""
To: mike.murray@obra.org, obra@list.obra.org
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:22:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

I think Mike is right if you play your cards right and have a good sponsorship
base you can pull a small wage out of an event but it will not be from entry
fees. A few promoters I am sure do pull it off and my feeling is more power to
them they deserve it (as long as the race is still quality) I know of no other
sport that gives its athletes more bang for there buck. In multisport and
adventure races entry fees are three to four times as big and there is no prize
money offered just ribbons and medals. I can tell you that this year was a
costly one for Mt. Hood. Rapid growth of the event and pumping it up to offer a
tremendous experience to the athletes comes at a price. This year myself, and
the group that puts it on will not even recover the money we spent out of our
own pockets on gas for travel before and during the race let alone the child
care, vacation time, etc that was spent. I agree that it is ultimately the
promoters responsibility and they should be the ones
to cover all expenses even if they have to pull their credit card out to do it
(been there done that) but go easy on them. It is hard to stomach paying out of
pocket for an event you just poured 600-700 hours into putting together over the
course of 10 months. Also make sure you let the events sponsors know how much
you appreciate them. With out them the level of racing would not even be close
to the same. They are critical.

Chad

------- Original Message -------
From : Mike Murray[mailto:mike.murray@obra.org]
Sent : 9/1/2006 5:48:51 PM
To : obra@list.obra.org
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

Several years ago we surveyed race organizers about whether their race made
or lost money. The results showed that a small number of races made money,
a larger number lost money and most were very near to breaking even. Since
that time there has been increasing participation and we have worked at
decreasing race organizer costs by providing more services so I expect that
there are more races making money now than at the time of the survey.
Regardless of this, there are few race organizers who are turning any
significant profit. Although they are running a "business" none are doing
this for the money.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [ mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick wilder
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 13:19 PM
To: Matt Plummer; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

The OBRA site has a link for promoters you can see what the charges are for
races.

The WVC is a USCF race correct? I don't know the break down for their costs
but I'm confident to say they are higher than OBRA's fees.

The other point I want to make is that OBRA fees are only part of the story.

Permitts, Venues, Port-o-Potties, food etc, all cost money in addition to
OBRA fees.

I helped promote the Hood River Cross Race last year with Veloshop we ran a
shoe string budget and were lucky to pretty much just break even for that
race. A huge event like WVC cost a lot more.

Matt Plummer wrote:

I've been reading the various opinions that people have been sharing about
the
deal with willamette. I've noticed that there has yet to be any mention of
race
promotion being a business. As with any business venture there comes its
share
of risk. The risk can come in all sorts of forms, but the risk is always
present, so beware.

Along with risk comes responsibility. There is the responsibility to choose
a
course, set distances, decide a race fee, and advertise. When I read a race
advertisement I think its safe to assume it is correct. So I show up to the
race understanding what the course is, distance I'll be racing, how much I
need
to pay, and what I could win if I do well. If any of these things are
inaccurate
there is only one place to look. I wouldn't consider looking beyond a
promoter
for answers pertaining to the race they are hosting and promoting.

Lets say I go to the store and buy a widget. When I get home I open the box
only
to discover I have been shorted some pieces that were advertised to come in
the
box. So I go back to the store and eventually get what I paid for. It is the
stores responsibility to give me what I paid for or I get my money back. Not
once do I think about contacting the stores investors or boycott those
investors. That would be moronic.

That is all these racers are looking for. They paid for a chance to win
certain
prizes and only one person is responsible for getting them that. If that
person
cannot settle up, than perhaps action is necessary.

Thats the wisdom that I can share. One last question I have is even with the
sponsor not giving what it promised, what happened to all the entry fees? I
can
only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm.

Matt Plummer
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

~Patrick
/\
/ \/\ __o
/\/ \ --- \<,
_/ \_______(_)/(_)
www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com
< http://www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com/>

_____

Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're
< http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailb
eta> invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

All-new

Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Edward Kendrick Sr

I agree with Steve. Most of the entry fees are paid by people who will not place. Propoters need to survive.

Off Topic: Let's make sure the OBRA administrators are getting paid as much as they can be.

FYI: I would ride a RR instead of a crit., every time. I might rather do a training ride instead of a crit.

Steven R Holland wrote:
I'm probably going to regret sending this e mail but......

ATTN RACE PROMOTERS:

If you are not making any $$ at your race, CHARGE US MORE TO DO YOUR
RACE and/or STOP PAYING BIG PRIZE LISTS. Supply and demand baby. If your
race had a waiting list for some categories in 06, charge more in
07.......

Honestly, how many of you racers reading this e mail would stop racing
if there were NO cash prize lists? 5?...10?...20?....I promise, we won't
miss you if you stop racing :-)

I would say 95% of us, or more, do not race for prize $$$ anyways.

Columbia Plateau SR pays "almost" nothing [no offence Mark] and they
have a HUGE turn out because it's an AWESOME race. In Washington the
Mason Lake series [Their version of a BB series] pays NOTHING and they
have huge fields, right David?

When you figure in gas, hotel etc., the entry fee is not a huge % of the
total cost in "most" cases.

From: ""
To: mike.murray@obra.org, obra@list.obra.org
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:22:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

I think Mike is right if you play your cards right and have a good sponsorship base you can pull a small wage out of an event but it will not be from entry fees. A few promoters I am sure do pull it off and my feeling is more power to them they deserve it (as long as the race is still quality) I know of no other sport that gives its athletes more bang for there buck. In multisport and adventure races entry fees are three to four times as big and there is no prize money offered just ribbons and medals. I can tell you that this year was a costly one for Mt. Hood. Rapid growth of the event and pumping it up to offer a tremendous experience to the athletes comes at a price. This year myself, and the group that puts it on will not even recover the money we spent out of our own pockets on gas for travel before and during the race let alone the child care, vacation time, etc that was spent. I agree that it is ultimately the promoters responsibility and they should be the ones
to cover all expenses even if they have to pull their credit card out to do it (been there done that) but go easy on them. It is hard to stomach paying out of pocket for an event you just poured 600-700 hours into putting together over the course of 10 months. Also make sure you let the events sponsors know how much you appreciate them. With out them the level of racing would not even be close to the same. They are critical.

Chad

------- Original Message -------
From : Mike Murray[mailto:mike.murray@obra.org]
Sent : 9/1/2006 5:48:51 PM
To : obra@list.obra.org
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

Several years ago we surveyed race organizers about whether their race made
or lost money. The results showed that a small number of races made money,
a larger number lost money and most were very near to breaking even. Since
that time there has been increasing participation and we have worked at
decreasing race organizer costs by providing more services so I expect that
there are more races making money now than at the time of the survey.
Regardless of this, there are few race organizers who are turning any
significant profit. Although they are running a "business" none are doing
this for the money.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [ mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick wilder
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 13:19 PM
To: Matt Plummer; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

The OBRA site has a link for promoters you can see what the charges are for
races.

The WVC is a USCF race correct? I don't know the break down for their costs
but I'm confident to say they are higher than OBRA's fees.

The other point I want to make is that OBRA fees are only part of the story.

Permitts, Venues, Port-o-Potties, food etc, all cost money in addition to
OBRA fees.

I helped promote the Hood River Cross Race last year with Veloshop we ran a
shoe string budget and were lucky to pretty much just break even for that
race. A huge event like WVC cost a lot more.

Matt Plummer
wrote:

I've been reading the various opinions that people have been sharing about
the
deal with willamette. I've noticed that there has yet to be any mention of
race
promotion being a business. As with any business venture there comes its
share
of risk. The risk can come in all sorts of forms, but the risk is always
present, so beware.

Along with risk comes responsibility. There is the responsibility to choose
a
course, set distances, decide a race fee, and advertise. When I read a race
advertisement I think its safe to assume it is correct. So I show up to the
race understanding what the course is, distance I'll be racing, how much I
need
to pay, and what I could win if I do well. If any of these things are
inaccurate
there is only one place to look. I wouldn't consider looking beyond a
promoter
for answers pertaining to the race they are hosting and promoting.

Lets say I go to the store and buy a widget. When I get home I open the box
only
to discover I have been shorted some pieces that were advertised to come in
the
box. So I go back to the store and eventually get what I paid for. It is the
stores responsibility to give me what I paid for or I get my money back. Not
once do I think about contacting the stores investors or boycott those
investors. That would be moronic.

That is all these racers are looking for. They paid for a chance to win
certain
prizes and only one person is responsible for getting them that. If that
person
cannot settle up, than perhaps action is necessary.

Thats the wisdom that I can share. One last question I have is even with the
sponsor not giving what it promised, what happened to all the entry fees? I
can
only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm.

Matt Plummer
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

~Patrick
/\
/ \/\ __o
/\/ \ --- \<,
_/ \_______(_)/(_)
www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com
< http://www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com/>

_____

Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're
< http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailb
eta> invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Jason Ford

contact at racebikeguy@hotmail.com

The events I have raced in this year have been wonderful experiences. They
have been well organized and professionally implemented. My thanks go to
all promoters. It would be a shame for the number of events to diminish.

I am interested in assisting in the promotion of an event in the Eugene area
for the 2007 season. I don?t have experience in this regard and would
contribute best assisting or co-promoting my first event. Please contact me
directly if you have an opportunity.

-Jason

_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!
http://www.windowsonecare.com/trial.aspx?sc_cid=msn_hotmail

Dean Ford

The events I have raced in this year have been wonderful experiences. They
have been well organized and professionally implemented. My thanks go to
all promoters. It would be a shame for the number of events to diminish.

I am interested in assisting in the promotion of an event in the Eugene area
for the 2007 season. I don?t have experience in this regard and would
contribute best assisting or co-promoting my first event. Please contact me
directly if you have an opportunity.

-Jason

_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!
http://www.windowsonecare.com/trial.aspx?sc_cid=msn_hotmail

Patrick wilder

This is exacly what I was trying to say in my last post. Although, I think OBRA has a good balance of affordable races. Keeping races affordable keeps up the good vibe I've come to enjoy here in Oregon.

Tim Schauer wrote: I totally agree. One of our teammates just spent most of the last year in San Fran and in Tucson for work. It cost $50 to $70 to race any event, the license is already expensive at $100, and their events pale in comparison to OBRA events in regard to quality of promoters, organization, parking, friendly approachable officials, and events are few and far between. We probably have it too good here. Our promoters deserve our support, and maybe paying a little more to race an event to preserve our great situation here is worth it.

Hey, and maybe with less or no money, prizes, etc. up for grabs maybe we would get less back of the pack sprint attempts for the last few dollars on the prize list....okay, maybe not.

-Tim

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Steven R Holland
Sent: Fri 9/1/2006 11:02 PM
To: mhcc@gorge.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

I'm probably going to regret sending this e mail but......

ATTN RACE PROMOTERS:

If you are not making any $$ at your race, CHARGE US MORE TO DO YOUR
RACE and/or STOP PAYING BIG PRIZE LISTS. Supply and demand baby. If your
race had a waiting list for some categories in 06, charge more in
07.......

Honestly, how many of you racers reading this e mail would stop racing
if there were NO cash prize lists? 5?...10?...20?....I promise, we won't
miss you if you stop racing :-)

I would say 95% of us, or more, do not race for prize $$$ anyways.

Columbia Plateau SR pays "almost" nothing [no offence Mark] and they
have a HUGE turn out because it's an AWESOME race. In Washington the
Mason Lake series [Their version of a BB series] pays NOTHING and they
have huge fields, right David?

When you figure in gas, hotel etc., the entry fee is not a huge % of the
total cost in "most" cases.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

~Patrick
/\
/ \/\ __o
/\/ \ --- \<,
_/ \_______(_)/(_)
www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com

---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.

Patrick wilder

I'm not sure any of the promoters were complaining they weren't making money. I don't think that is the point. My response to the money issue was in response to some of the threads suggesting there was some sort of huge pot of money from race entry fees.

Personally I think the goal of many promoters is to keep the cost as low as possible to keep people interested in racing. For example, when I promoted the Veloshop Cross race we offered free or half off entry fees (I can't remember which) for women to encourage them to participate.

If you want to pay higher for race fees I suggest you race in California for a few years and see how you like paying higher fees.

Steven R Holland wrote:
I'm probably going to regret sending this e mail but......

ATTN RACE PROMOTERS:

If you are not making any $$ at your race, CHARGE US MORE TO DO YOUR
RACE and/or STOP PAYING BIG PRIZE LISTS. Supply and demand baby. If your
race had a waiting list for some categories in 06, charge more in
07.......

Honestly, how many of you racers reading this e mail would stop racing
if there were NO cash prize lists? 5?...10?...20?....I promise, we won't
miss you if you stop racing :-)

I would say 95% of us, or more, do not race for prize $$$ anyways.

Columbia Plateau SR pays "almost" nothing [no offence Mark] and they
have a HUGE turn out because it's an AWESOME race. In Washington the
Mason Lake series [Their version of a BB series] pays NOTHING and they
have huge fields, right David?

When you figure in gas, hotel etc., the entry fee is not a huge % of the
total cost in "most" cases.

From: ""
To: mike.murray@obra.org, obra@list.obra.org
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:22:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

I think Mike is right if you play your cards right and have a good sponsorship base you can pull a small wage out of an event but it will not be from entry fees. A few promoters I am sure do pull it off and my feeling is more power to them they deserve it (as long as the race is still quality) I know of no other sport that gives its athletes more bang for there buck. In multisport and adventure races entry fees are three to four times as big and there is no prize money offered just ribbons and medals. I can tell you that this year was a costly one for Mt. Hood. Rapid growth of the event and pumping it up to offer a tremendous experience to the athletes comes at a price. This year myself, and the group that puts it on will not even recover the money we spent out of our own pockets on gas for travel before and during the race let alone the child care, vacation time, etc that was spent. I agree that it is ultimately the promoters responsibility and they should be the ones
to cover all expenses even if they have to pull their credit card out to do it (been there done that) but go easy on them. It is hard to stomach paying out of pocket for an event you just poured 600-700 hours into putting together over the course of 10 months. Also make sure you let the events sponsors know how much you appreciate them. With out them the level of racing would not even be close to the same. They are critical.

Chad

------- Original Message -------
From : Mike Murray[mailto:mike.murray@obra.org]
Sent : 9/1/2006 5:48:51 PM
To : obra@list.obra.org
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

Several years ago we surveyed race organizers about whether their race made
or lost money. The results showed that a small number of races made money,
a larger number lost money and most were very near to breaking even. Since
that time there has been increasing participation and we have worked at
decreasing race organizer costs by providing more services so I expect that
there are more races making money now than at the time of the survey.
Regardless of this, there are few race organizers who are turning any
significant profit. Although they are running a "business" none are doing
this for the money.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [ mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick wilder
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 13:19 PM
To: Matt Plummer; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

The OBRA site has a link for promoters you can see what the charges are for
races.

The WVC is a USCF race correct? I don't know the break down for their costs
but I'm confident to say they are higher than OBRA's fees.

The other point I want to make is that OBRA fees are only part of the story.

Permitts, Venues, Port-o-Potties, food etc, all cost money in addition to
OBRA fees.

I helped promote the Hood River Cross Race last year with Veloshop we ran a
shoe string budget and were lucky to pretty much just break even for that
race. A huge event like WVC cost a lot more.

Matt Plummer
wrote:

I've been reading the various opinions that people have been sharing about
the
deal with willamette. I've noticed that there has yet to be any mention of
race
promotion being a business. As with any business venture there comes its
share
of risk. The risk can come in all sorts of forms, but the risk is always
present, so beware.

Along with risk comes responsibility. There is the responsibility to choose
a
course, set distances, decide a race fee, and advertise. When I read a race
advertisement I think its safe to assume it is correct. So I show up to the
race understanding what the course is, distance I'll be racing, how much I
need
to pay, and what I could win if I do well. If any of these things are
inaccurate
there is only one place to look. I wouldn't consider looking beyond a
promoter
for answers pertaining to the race they are hosting and promoting.

Lets say I go to the store and buy a widget. When I get home I open the box
only
to discover I have been shorted some pieces that were advertised to come in
the
box. So I go back to the store and eventually get what I paid for. It is the
stores responsibility to give me what I paid for or I get my money back. Not
once do I think about contacting the stores investors or boycott those
investors. That would be moronic.

That is all these racers are looking for. They paid for a chance to win
certain
prizes and only one person is responsible for getting them that. If that
person
cannot settle up, than perhaps action is necessary.

Thats the wisdom that I can share. One last question I have is even with the
sponsor not giving what it promised, what happened to all the entry fees? I
can
only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm.

Matt Plummer
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

~Patrick
/\
/ \/\ __o
/\/ \ --- \<,
_/ \_______(_)/(_)
www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com
< http://www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com/>

_____

Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're
< http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailb
eta> invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

~Patrick
/\
/ \/\ __o
/\/ \ --- \<,
_/ \_______(_)/(_)
www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com

---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Tim Schauer

I totally agree. One of our teammates just spent most of the last year in San Fran and in Tucson for work. It cost $50 to $70 to race any event, the license is already expensive at $100, and their events pale in comparison to OBRA events in regard to quality of promoters, organization, parking, friendly approachable officials, and events are few and far between. We probably have it too good here. Our promoters deserve our support, and maybe paying a little more to race an event to preserve our great situation here is worth it.

Hey, and maybe with less or no money, prizes, etc. up for grabs maybe we would get less back of the pack sprint attempts for the last few dollars on the prize list....okay, maybe not.

-Tim

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Steven R Holland
Sent: Fri 9/1/2006 11:02 PM
To: mhcc@gorge.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

I'm probably going to regret sending this e mail but......

ATTN RACE PROMOTERS:

If you are not making any $$ at your race, CHARGE US MORE TO DO YOUR
RACE and/or STOP PAYING BIG PRIZE LISTS. Supply and demand baby. If your
race had a waiting list for some categories in 06, charge more in
07.......

Honestly, how many of you racers reading this e mail would stop racing
if there were NO cash prize lists? 5?...10?...20?....I promise, we won't
miss you if you stop racing :-)

I would say 95% of us, or more, do not race for prize $$$ anyways.

Columbia Plateau SR pays "almost" nothing [no offence Mark] and they
have a HUGE turn out because it's an AWESOME race. In Washington the
Mason Lake series [Their version of a BB series] pays NOTHING and they
have huge fields, right David?

When you figure in gas, hotel etc., the entry fee is not a huge % of the
total cost in "most" cases.

Mike Murray

I agree with the "STOP PAYING BIG PRIZE LISTS" statement. There is no
correlation between prize list and participation or quality of event. Each
race organizer has limited resources and energy and most of them misdirect
that toward developing a prize list rather than towards other things that
would make a good event. I have, in the past, proposed that OBRA adopt a
rule limiting cash prizes to Cat 1/2 fields, merchandise to Cat 1/2/3 and
only allow prizes of no monetary value (ribbons, trophies) to Cat 4/5
fields. This proposed rule has been verbally supported but voted down. One
of the worst things about bike racing is that we have guys who just started
racing last week who expect that they deserve to get paid and actually get
quite pissy when they don't or if the prize is less then what they deem
acceptable. What other sport pays cash to beginners?

I do not totally agree with the "CHARGE US MORE TO DO YOUR RACE". Although
the entry fees to do bike races are small compared to similar charges for
other sports there is an inverse correlation between entry fee and
participation, i.e. the higher the entry fee, the lower the participation.
This means that income for the event will not necessarily increase if the
entry fee goes up as less people will be paying that entry fee. Obviously
there is a sweet spot but predicting where that is will always be a guess.
Since events are generally better if participation is higher keeping entry
fees low is something that we should encourage. OBRA has tried to encourage
this by having a system that tries, as much as possible, to make costs to
the race organizers variable, i.e. tied to participation. If all the costs
were variable the race organizer could figure minimum entry fee charge
easily as it would be his costs per participant. The catch is that there
are some costs that are necessarily fixed (not tied to participation).

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven R Holland [mailto:srh148@webtv.net]
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 23:03 PM
To: mhcc@gorge.net
Cc: mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

I'm probably going to regret sending this e mail but......

ATTN RACE PROMOTERS:

If you are not making any $$ at your race, CHARGE US MORE TO DO YOUR RACE
and/or STOP PAYING BIG PRIZE LISTS. Supply and demand baby. If your race had
a waiting list for some categories in 06, charge more in 07.......

Honestly, how many of you racers reading this e mail would stop racing if
there were NO cash prize lists? 5?...10?...20?....I promise, we won't miss
you if you stop racing :-)

I would say 95% of us, or more, do not race for prize $$$ anyways.

Columbia Plateau SR pays "almost" nothing [no offence Mark] and they have a
HUGE turn out because it's an AWESOME race. In Washington the Mason Lake
series [Their version of a BB series] pays NOTHING and they have huge
fields, right David?

When you figure in gas, hotel etc., the entry fee is not a huge % of the
total cost in "most" cases.

Steven R Holland

I'm probably going to regret sending this e mail but......

ATTN RACE PROMOTERS:

If you are not making any $$ at your race, CHARGE US MORE TO DO YOUR
RACE and/or STOP PAYING BIG PRIZE LISTS. Supply and demand baby. If your
race had a waiting list for some categories in 06, charge more in
07.......

Honestly, how many of you racers reading this e mail would stop racing
if there were NO cash prize lists? 5?...10?...20?....I promise, we won't
miss you if you stop racing :-)

I would say 95% of us, or more, do not race for prize $$$ anyways.

Columbia Plateau SR pays "almost" nothing [no offence Mark] and they
have a HUGE turn out because it's an AWESOME race. In Washington the
Mason Lake series [Their version of a BB series] pays NOTHING and they
have huge fields, right David?

When you figure in gas, hotel etc., the entry fee is not a huge % of the
total cost in "most" cases.

mhcc@gorge.net

I think Mike is right if you play your cards right and have a good sponsorship base you can pull a small wage out of an event but it will not be from entry fees. A few promoters I am sure do pull it off and my feeling is more power to them they deserve it (as long as the race is still quality) I know of no other sport that gives its athletes more bang for there buck. In multisport and adventure races entry fees are three to four times as big and there is no prize money offered just ribbons and medals. I can tell you that this year was a costly one for Mt. Hood. Rapid growth of the event and pumping it up to offer a tremendous experience to the athletes comes at a price. This year myself, and the group that puts it on will not even recover the money we spent out of our own pockets on gas for travel before and during the race let alone the child care, vacation time, etc that was spent. I agree that it is ultimately the promoters responsibility and they should be the ones
to cover all expenses even if they have to pull their credit card out to do it (been there done that) but go easy on them. It is hard to stomach paying out of pocket for an event you just poured 600-700 hours into putting together over the course of 10 months. Also make sure you let the events sponsors know how much you appreciate them. With out them the level of racing would not even be close to the same. They are critical.

Chad

------- Original Message -------
From : Mike Murray[mailto:mike.murray@obra.org]
Sent : 9/1/2006 5:48:51 PM
To : obra@list.obra.org
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

Several years ago we surveyed race organizers about whether their race made
or lost money. The results showed that a small number of races made money,
a larger number lost money and most were very near to breaking even. Since
that time there has been increasing participation and we have worked at
decreasing race organizer costs by providing more services so I expect that
there are more races making money now than at the time of the survey.
Regardless of this, there are few race organizers who are turning any
significant profit. Although they are running a "business" none are doing
this for the money.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [ mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick wilder
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 13:19 PM
To: Matt Plummer; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

The OBRA site has a link for promoters you can see what the charges are for
races.

The WVC is a USCF race correct? I don't know the break down for their costs
but I'm confident to say they are higher than OBRA's fees.

The other point I want to make is that OBRA fees are only part of the story.

Permitts, Venues, Port-o-Potties, food etc, all cost money in addition to
OBRA fees.

I helped promote the Hood River Cross Race last year with Veloshop we ran a
shoe string budget and were lucky to pretty much just break even for that
race. A huge event like WVC cost a lot more.

Matt Plummer wrote:

I've been reading the various opinions that people have been sharing about
the
deal with willamette. I've noticed that there has yet to be any mention of
race
promotion being a business. As with any business venture there comes its
share
of risk. The risk can come in all sorts of forms, but the risk is always
present, so beware.

Along with risk comes responsibility. There is the responsibility to choose
a
course, set distances, decide a race fee, and advertise. When I read a race
advertisement I think its safe to assume it is correct. So I show up to the
race understanding what the course is, distance I'll be racing, how much I
need
to pay, and what I could win if I do well. If any of these things are
inaccurate
there is only one place to look. I wouldn't consider looking beyond a
promoter
for answers pertaining to the race they are hosting and promoting.

Lets say I go to the store and buy a widget. When I get home I open the box
only
to discover I have been shorted some pieces that were advertised to come in
the
box. So I go back to the store and eventually get what I paid for. It is the
stores responsibility to give me what I paid for or I get my money back. Not
once do I think about contacting the stores investors or boycott those
investors. That would be moronic.

That is all these racers are looking for. They paid for a chance to win
certain
prizes and only one person is responsible for getting them that. If that
person
cannot settle up, than perhaps action is necessary.

Thats the wisdom that I can share. One last question I have is even with the
sponsor not giving what it promised, what happened to all the entry fees? I
can
only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm.

Matt Plummer
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

~Patrick
/\
/ \/\ __o
/\/ \ --- \<,
_/ \_______(_)/(_)
www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com
< http://www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com/>

_____

Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're
< http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailb
eta> invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

Lisa Winchester

Randy Dreiling

BIG THANKS to OBRA

Just for fun I checked to see if I had to get
insurance on my own what it would cost...OBRA is VERY
fair on what they charge us!

Thanks Mike, Candi, Cheryl(the webmaster), the board,
officials and everyone in OBRA.

Take Care

--- Mike Murray wrote:

> Several years ago we surveyed race organizers about
> whether their race made
> or lost money. The results showed that a small
> number of races made money,
> a larger number lost money and most were very near
> to breaking even. Since
> that time there has been increasing participation
> and we have worked at
> decreasing race organizer costs by providing more
> services so I expect that
> there are more races making money now than at the
> time of the survey.
> Regardless of this, there are few race organizers
> who are turning any
> significant profit. Although they are running a
> "business" none are doing
> this for the money.
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Patrick wilder
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 13:19 PM
> To: Matt Plummer; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion
>
>
> The OBRA site has a link for promoters you can see
> what the charges are for
> races.
>
> The WVC is a USCF race correct? I don't know the
> break down for their costs
> but I'm confident to say they are higher than OBRA's
> fees.
>
> The other point I want to make is that OBRA fees are
> only part of the story.
>
> Permitts, Venues, Port-o-Potties, food etc, all
> cost money in addition to
> OBRA fees.
>
> I helped promote the Hood River Cross Race last year
> with Veloshop we ran a
> shoe string budget and were lucky to pretty much
> just break even for that
> race. A huge event like WVC cost a lot more.
>
>
>
> Matt Plummer wrote:
>
> I've been reading the various opinions that people
> have been sharing about
> the
> deal with willamette. I've noticed that there has
> yet to be any mention of
> race
> promotion being a business. As with any business
> venture there comes its
> share
> of risk. The risk can come in all sorts of forms,
> but the risk is always
> present, so beware.
>
> Along with risk comes responsibility. There is the
> responsibility to choose
> a
> course, set distances, decide a race fee, and
> advertise. When I read a race
> advertisement I think its safe to assume it is
> correct. So I show up to the
> race understanding what the course is, distance I'll
> be racing, how much I
> need
> to pay, and what I could win if I do well. If any of
> these things are
> inaccurate
> there is only one place to look. I wouldn't consider
> looking beyond a
> promoter
> for answers pertaining to the race they are hosting
> and promoting.
>
> Lets say I go to the store and buy a widget. When I
> get home I open the box
> only
> to discover I have been shorted some pieces that
> were advertised to come in
> the
> box. So I go back to the store and eventually get
> what I paid for. It is the
> stores responsibility to give me what I paid for or
> I get my money back. Not
> once do I think about contacting the stores
> investors or boycott those
> investors. That would be moronic.
>
> That is all these racers are looking for. They paid
> for a chance to win
> certain
> prizes and only one person is responsible for
> getting them that. If that
> person
> cannot settle up, than perhaps action is necessary.
>
> Thats the wisdom that I can share. One last question
> I have is even with the
> sponsor not giving what it promised, what happened
> to all the entry fees? I
> can
> only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm.
>
> Matt Plummer
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ~Patrick
> /\
> / \/\ __o
> /\/ \ --- \<,
> _/ \_______(_)/(_)
> www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Get on board. You're
>
eta> invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
>
> > _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Randy Dreiling
Owner Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
Executive Director Oakridge/Westfir Area Chamber of Commerce
www.oakridgechamber.com
Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
Other Oregon Adventures Events
Oakridge FTF, 12/24 of Willamette Pass
Willamette Pass Downhill/Super D's Series
www.oakridgefattire.com A simple site to download flyers

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Mike Murray

Several years ago we surveyed race organizers about whether their race made
or lost money. The results showed that a small number of races made money,
a larger number lost money and most were very near to breaking even. Since
that time there has been increasing participation and we have worked at
decreasing race organizer costs by providing more services so I expect that
there are more races making money now than at the time of the survey.
Regardless of this, there are few race organizers who are turning any
significant profit. Although they are running a "business" none are doing
this for the money.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick wilder
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 13:19 PM
To: Matt Plummer; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

The OBRA site has a link for promoters you can see what the charges are for
races.

The WVC is a USCF race correct? I don't know the break down for their costs
but I'm confident to say they are higher than OBRA's fees.

The other point I want to make is that OBRA fees are only part of the story.

Permitts, Venues, Port-o-Potties, food etc, all cost money in addition to
OBRA fees.

I helped promote the Hood River Cross Race last year with Veloshop we ran a
shoe string budget and were lucky to pretty much just break even for that
race. A huge event like WVC cost a lot more.

Matt Plummer wrote:

I've been reading the various opinions that people have been sharing about
the
deal with willamette. I've noticed that there has yet to be any mention of
race
promotion being a business. As with any business venture there comes its
share
of risk. The risk can come in all sorts of forms, but the risk is always
present, so beware.

Along with risk comes responsibility. There is the responsibility to choose
a
course, set distances, decide a race fee, and advertise. When I read a race
advertisement I think its safe to assume it is correct. So I show up to the
race understanding what the course is, distance I'll be racing, how much I
need
to pay, and what I could win if I do well. If any of these things are
inaccurate
there is only one place to look. I wouldn't consider looking beyond a
promoter
for answers pertaining to the race they are hosting and promoting.

Lets say I go to the store and buy a widget. When I get home I open the box
only
to discover I have been shorted some pieces that were advertised to come in
the
box. So I go back to the store and eventually get what I paid for. It is the
stores responsibility to give me what I paid for or I get my money back. Not
once do I think about contacting the stores investors or boycott those
investors. That would be moronic.

That is all these racers are looking for. They paid for a chance to win
certain
prizes and only one person is responsible for getting them that. If that
person
cannot settle up, than perhaps action is necessary.

Thats the wisdom that I can share. One last question I have is even with the
sponsor not giving what it promised, what happened to all the entry fees? I
can
only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm.

Matt Plummer
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

~Patrick
/\
/ \/\ __o
/\/ \ --- \<,
_/ \_______(_)/(_)
www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com

_____

Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're
invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

Patrick wilder

The OBRA site has a link for promoters you can see what the charges are for races.

The WVC is a USCF race correct? I don't know the break down for their costs but I'm confident to say they are higher than OBRA's fees.

The other point I want to make is that OBRA fees are only part of the story.

Permitts, Venues, Port-o-Potties, food etc, all cost money in addition to OBRA fees.

I helped promote the Hood River Cross Race last year with Veloshop we ran a shoe string budget and were lucky to pretty much just break even for that race. A huge event like WVC cost a lot more.

Matt Plummer wrote:
I've been reading the various opinions that people have been sharing about the
deal with willamette. I've noticed that there has yet to be any mention of race
promotion being a business. As with any business venture there comes its share
of risk. The risk can come in all sorts of forms, but the risk is always
present, so beware.

Along with risk comes responsibility. There is the responsibility to choose a
course, set distances, decide a race fee, and advertise. When I read a race
advertisement I think its safe to assume it is correct. So I show up to the
race understanding what the course is, distance I'll be racing, how much I need
to pay, and what I could win if I do well. If any of these things are inaccurate
there is only one place to look. I wouldn't consider looking beyond a promoter
for answers pertaining to the race they are hosting and promoting.

Lets say I go to the store and buy a widget. When I get home I open the box only
to discover I have been shorted some pieces that were advertised to come in the
box. So I go back to the store and eventually get what I paid for. It is the
stores responsibility to give me what I paid for or I get my money back. Not
once do I think about contacting the stores investors or boycott those
investors. That would be moronic.

That is all these racers are looking for. They paid for a chance to win certain
prizes and only one person is responsible for getting them that. If that person
cannot settle up, than perhaps action is necessary.

Thats the wisdom that I can share. One last question I have is even with the
sponsor not giving what it promised, what happened to all the entry fees? I can
only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm.

Matt Plummer
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

~Patrick
/\
/ \/\ __o
/\/ \ --- \<,
_/ \_______(_)/(_)
www.patrickinportland.blogspot.com

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

Jay Rideout

Maybe it's time to see how that $20 fee gets broken
down. I think a lot of people would be amazed how
much we do get for that amount of money considering
the % of operating costs, insurance, transporting
equipment, maintaining and upgrading equipment, and
the administrative costs of running an organization
like OBRA. Considering the quality of OBRA events
I've participated in I'm amazed I get so much for my
membership and event fees.
Jay

--- Matthew Wolpert wrote:

> Matt,
>
> Well, you might not have read people describing race
> promoting as a
> business because that is not the most helpful way to
> look at it.
>
> I think for the majority of race promoters putting
> on a race is about
> giving back to the community of bike racing.
> Reducing things to just a
> business venture would eliminate a lot, if not the
> majority of races
> put on each year. If promoters were only putting on
> races to make
> money, we would know it.
>
> Yes, some money is made, and yes, there is an aspect
> to promoting that
> is a business, but clearly Richard is very talented
> at putting on
> races, WVC was an awesome race, and he is taking
> full responsibility
> for the outcome of the race.
>
> The point here is that we OBRAites, with an
> understanding of the
> dedication that Richard and everyone else put into
> this, and of the
> circumstances, would be doing _ourselves_ a
> disservice if we did not
> do everything we could to help him here.
>
> He's not asking, but we should be offering... if we
> want to have
> awesome races like this put on in the future.
>
> Regarding your comment: "what happened to all the
> entry fees? I can
> only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm."
> - I don't think
> that sort of insinuation is either respectful or
> even called for.
>
> -Matthew
>
> On 9/1/06, Matt Plummer
> wrote:
> > I've been reading the various opinions that people
> have been sharing about the
> > deal with willamette. I've noticed that there has
> yet to be any mention of race
> > promotion being a business. As with any business
> venture there comes its share
> > of risk. The risk can come in all sorts of forms,
> but the risk is always
> > present, so beware.
> >
> > Along with risk comes responsibility. There is the
> responsibility to choose a
> > course, set distances, decide a race fee, and
> advertise. When I read a race
> > advertisement I think its safe to assume it is
> correct. So I show up to the
> > race understanding what the course is, distance
> I'll be racing, how much I need
> > to pay, and what I could win if I do well. If any
> of these things are inaccurate
> > there is only one place to look. I wouldn't
> consider looking beyond a promoter
> > for answers pertaining to the race they are
> hosting and promoting.
> >
> > Lets say I go to the store and buy a widget. When
> I get home I open the box only
> > to discover I have been shorted some pieces that
> were advertised to come in the
> > box. So I go back to the store and eventually get
> what I paid for. It is the
> > stores responsibility to give me what I paid for
> or I get my money back. Not
> > once do I think about contacting the stores
> investors or boycott those
> > investors. That would be moronic.
> >
> > That is all these racers are looking for. They
> paid for a chance to win certain
> > prizes and only one person is responsible for
> getting them that. If that person
> > cannot settle up, than perhaps action is
> necessary.
> >
> > Thats the wisdom that I can share. One last
> question I have is even with the
> > sponsor not giving what it promised, what happened
> to all the entry fees? I can
> > only assume that is a large amount of money.
> Hmmmm.
> >
> > Matt Plummer
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Matthew Wolpert

Matt,

Well, you might not have read people describing race promoting as a
business because that is not the most helpful way to look at it.

I think for the majority of race promoters putting on a race is about
giving back to the community of bike racing. Reducing things to just a
business venture would eliminate a lot, if not the majority of races
put on each year. If promoters were only putting on races to make
money, we would know it.

Yes, some money is made, and yes, there is an aspect to promoting that
is a business, but clearly Richard is very talented at putting on
races, WVC was an awesome race, and he is taking full responsibility
for the outcome of the race.

The point here is that we OBRAites, with an understanding of the
dedication that Richard and everyone else put into this, and of the
circumstances, would be doing _ourselves_ a disservice if we did not
do everything we could to help him here.

He's not asking, but we should be offering... if we want to have
awesome races like this put on in the future.

Regarding your comment: "what happened to all the entry fees? I can
only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm." - I don't think
that sort of insinuation is either respectful or even called for.

-Matthew

On 9/1/06, Matt Plummer wrote:
> I've been reading the various opinions that people have been sharing about the
> deal with willamette. I've noticed that there has yet to be any mention of race
> promotion being a business. As with any business venture there comes its share
> of risk. The risk can come in all sorts of forms, but the risk is always
> present, so beware.
>
> Along with risk comes responsibility. There is the responsibility to choose a
> course, set distances, decide a race fee, and advertise. When I read a race
> advertisement I think its safe to assume it is correct. So I show up to the
> race understanding what the course is, distance I'll be racing, how much I need
> to pay, and what I could win if I do well. If any of these things are inaccurate
> there is only one place to look. I wouldn't consider looking beyond a promoter
> for answers pertaining to the race they are hosting and promoting.
>
> Lets say I go to the store and buy a widget. When I get home I open the box only
> to discover I have been shorted some pieces that were advertised to come in the
> box. So I go back to the store and eventually get what I paid for. It is the
> stores responsibility to give me what I paid for or I get my money back. Not
> once do I think about contacting the stores investors or boycott those
> investors. That would be moronic.
>
> That is all these racers are looking for. They paid for a chance to win certain
> prizes and only one person is responsible for getting them that. If that person
> cannot settle up, than perhaps action is necessary.
>
> Thats the wisdom that I can share. One last question I have is even with the
> sponsor not giving what it promised, what happened to all the entry fees? I can
> only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm.
>
> Matt Plummer
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Brad Cockman, DC

For even more race promotion horror stories check out this link:
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060816/BIZ04/608160322

This race loses big, big bucks every year, yet the promoter continues to
stay the course with hopes of turning it into something even more special
than it is already. Love of the sport, say no more.

You all should go check this one out next year if you get the chance.
Hardest Master's crit I've ever done!

Michael O'Hair

If people treated it like a business, there would probably be fewer bike
races. Bike racing is an enthusiasts' sport. The enthusiasm includes
spouses, significant others, family members and friends who show up in the
middle of nowhere to do scut work, hand out forms, stand out in the weather
with a safety vest, a slow/stop paddle and a walkie talkie with nary a
porta-pottie in sight, etc. The big problems start when that enthusiasm
runs afoul of people who see no problem with backing out of an agreement,
verbal or otherwise. I'm amazed that anyone can put together a big road
race without going postal.

I leave you with the advice Chuck Berry gave an aspiring bunch of musicians:
"Get the cash up front before you go on stage."

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Plummer"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:59 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] race promotion

> I've been reading the various opinions that people have been sharing about
the
> deal with willamette. I've noticed that there has yet to be any mention of
race
> promotion being a business. As with any business venture there comes its
share
> of risk. The risk can come in all sorts of forms, but the risk is always
> present, so beware.
>
> Along with risk comes responsibility. There is the responsibility to
choose a
> course, set distances, decide a race fee, and advertise. When I read a
race
> advertisement I think its safe to assume it is correct. So I show up to
the
> race understanding what the course is, distance I'll be racing, how much I
need
> to pay, and what I could win if I do well. If any of these things are
inaccurate
> there is only one place to look. I wouldn't consider looking beyond a
promoter
> for answers pertaining to the race they are hosting and promoting.
>
> Lets say I go to the store and buy a widget. When I get home I open the
box only
> to discover I have been shorted some pieces that were advertised to come
in the
> box. So I go back to the store and eventually get what I paid for. It is
the
> stores responsibility to give me what I paid for or I get my money back.
Not
> once do I think about contacting the stores investors or boycott those
> investors. That would be moronic.
>
> That is all these racers are looking for. They paid for a chance to win
certain
> prizes and only one person is responsible for getting them that. If that
person
> cannot settle up, than perhaps action is necessary.
>
> Thats the wisdom that I can share. One last question I have is even with
the
> sponsor not giving what it promised, what happened to all the entry fees?
I can
> only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm.
>
> Matt Plummer

Matt Plummer

I've been reading the various opinions that people have been sharing about the
deal with willamette. I've noticed that there has yet to be any mention of race
promotion being a business. As with any business venture there comes its share
of risk. The risk can come in all sorts of forms, but the risk is always
present, so beware.

Along with risk comes responsibility. There is the responsibility to choose a
course, set distances, decide a race fee, and advertise. When I read a race
advertisement I think its safe to assume it is correct. So I show up to the
race understanding what the course is, distance I'll be racing, how much I need
to pay, and what I could win if I do well. If any of these things are inaccurate
there is only one place to look. I wouldn't consider looking beyond a promoter
for answers pertaining to the race they are hosting and promoting.

Lets say I go to the store and buy a widget. When I get home I open the box only
to discover I have been shorted some pieces that were advertised to come in the
box. So I go back to the store and eventually get what I paid for. It is the
stores responsibility to give me what I paid for or I get my money back. Not
once do I think about contacting the stores investors or boycott those
investors. That would be moronic.

That is all these racers are looking for. They paid for a chance to win certain
prizes and only one person is responsible for getting them that. If that person
cannot settle up, than perhaps action is necessary.

Thats the wisdom that I can share. One last question I have is even with the
sponsor not giving what it promised, what happened to all the entry fees? I can
only assume that is a large amount of money. Hmmmm.

Matt Plummer