Re: Bicyclist killed by SUV on West Union

Cp53x11@aol.com

2006-09-23

Amen Dave and Monty!
"Accidents happen" is BS! It's just a lame way to enable people into
continuing with poor choices.
The example of accidents in the workplace is a great one. When you start
costing your insurance carrier money, SAIF or OSHA will be out there sniffing
around looking into why there are so many accidents. Asking for documentation
about your safety practices and all that.
Why isn't insurance in the private sector handled that way?
What causes an accident? Negligence always. I don't think you could ever
find an "accident" where one party involved was not doing something they should
not have been doing (thus making all accidents preventable). Sure, people are
people and they are not perfect. But negligence that results in injury or
death is more serious than hitting a mailbox or opening your car door into
somebody elses. And from my interpretation of the law, negligence is illegal
while driving a vehicle. We all took the drive test that asks questions about
using increased stopping distance when it's wet, or slowing down when it's foggy
or the suns in our eyes, or using turn signals,blah,blah,blah. But it's made
a machery of when the law doesn't hold a person with a drivers license up to
the standards that are set up as acceptable behavior.
I hate to be so cynical. But the way the law is "enforced" is a bad joke.
It makes me laugh to think that I will get any sort of pretection from the law
when it comes to defending my right to ride my bike out there where there are
laws that specifically address my right to be on the road.
So, I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing. Assuming I'm invisible to
anybody in a car, talking to my fellow riders, continuing to develop my sense
of anticipation of what to look for and having fun riding my bike. I haven't
had any contact with a car for a long time and I intend to keep it that way.
thanks for listening.


Greenwood, Mark

2006-09-21

Want something to change attitudes? Consider this:

What if the cyclist had instead been a log truck or a construction
vehicle? I'll bet "the sun was in my eyes" would sound pretty lame
then. Oh, wait, they wouldn't be giving that excuse because they'd be
DEAD. Unfortunately physics works, and it doesn't usually go in the
cyclists favor. The drivers in these scenarios ought to consider
themselves fortunate it wasn't the other way around. Too bad the
cyclist pays the price for it.

I wasn't going to put in my 2 cents on this topic, but I just watched a
woman on her way to work blow through a 4-way stop in my neighborhood
yesterday without even slowing down, and it riled me up. It's gotta be
a real pain having to follow all those traffic rules when you've got a
busy schedule to keep...

Some time ago, I was on my way to work, passing straight through an
intersection on a green light when a car entered the intersection from
my right directly in front of me against a red light (no stop at all).
When I confronted him, he said (condescendingly and with no hint of
apology) "Take it easy; I was late for work." Good for him that he
didn't end up a whole lot later - if he keeps driving like that, one
morning he may never make it to work at all.

It feels to me like I see increased carelessness (or callousness) in the
last few years: pulling out of parking lots and making right turns on
red lights without even slowing down (forget about stopping), a general
attitude of "I'm in a hurry, so that justifies acting like a jerk...",
etc. I don't know if this perceived increase can be substantiated or
not; it's purely my own subjective view, but it's very frustrating. And
this year it seems to be translating into a larger number of cycling
incidents than usual.

Those who say "accidents happen" have a point... sometimes stuff happens
that's beyond our reasonable control. The key qualification is
"sometimes". Being too impatient to take reasonable precautions isn't
beyond our control, and saying "accidents happen" shouldn't be
automatically invoked to absolve someone of responsibility. I realize
none of these particular people had murderous intent and I don't think
they should go to jail for the rest of their lives - but the reality is
some other person, through no fault of their own, paid a huge price for
these drivers' mistakes.

On another note, my wife happens to be a "suburban mother". She takes
care not to carry on cell phone conversations in the car, drives in a
safe and courteous manner, and is a recreational cyclist who is very
watchful for fellow cyclists on the road. None of which is at all
related to her attending a church of the Christian tradition, choosing
to home school our kids or not, or living in the suburbs versus living
in some other area where (I presume the thought pattern goes) all the
"good" people must live. So frankly, I don't know WHAT all that
"suburban mother" crap was about but I found the implied
characterization covertly offensive. I'm going to assume the person
simply chose words poorly, rather than concluding that it was driven by
belief in some grossly inaccurate stereotypes. I hope that was the
case.

Done ranting...

Mark Greenwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave German [mailto:dave_german@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:39 AM
To: Montyh@tvapdx.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Bicyclist killed by SUV on West Union

I totally agree with Monty. I am a consultant to industry and have
worked
on large scale industrial construction projects. The construction
safety
philosophy in place today is "IFE" or Injury Free Environment. This
basically means you are expected to go home from work in the same shape
you
arrived. The only number of acceptable accidents on a job are ZERO.
Accidents are not acceptable. If accidents happen they are recorded,
analyzed and procedures are developed to prevent any future occurrence.

When people drive 4000 pounds of steal around our community with the
attitude "accidents happen" and "when they do, nothing will happen to me

except maybe my insurance goes up and I have to live with the fact that
I
killed a father and husband" then accidents will happen. Attitudes must

change before people will really take safety seriously.

Dave

Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:58:34 -0700
From: "Monty Hill"
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Bicyclist killed by SUV on West Union ID's by
police
To:
Message-ID: <450FF789.AEDB.003C.0@tvapdx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

I am sorry, but I cannot stand the line " accidents happen" If everyone

felt as
vulnerable as a bicyclists (or a child crossing the street) there would
be
far
fewer crashes and fatalities. Not that crashes would be eliminated, but
the
odds would go way down, probably similar to dying while flying in a
commercial
airline. statistical impossible. Far too many motorist drive with
carelessness. Why?? because it's not their life in jeoprady. "Who
gives a
damn if someone else dies. As long as I can keep driving my oversized
gutless
gashog."


Dave German

2006-09-21

I totally agree with Monty. I am a consultant to industry and have worked
on large scale industrial construction projects. The construction safety
philosophy in place today is "IFE" or Injury Free Environment. This
basically means you are expected to go home from work in the same shape you
arrived. The only number of acceptable accidents on a job are ZERO.
Accidents are not acceptable. If accidents happen they are recorded,
analyzed and procedures are developed to prevent any future occurrence.
When people drive 4000 pounds of steal around our community with the
attitude "accidents happen" and "when they do, nothing will happen to me
except maybe my insurance goes up and I have to live with the fact that I
killed a father and husband" then accidents will happen. Attitudes must
change before people will really take safety seriously.

Dave

Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:58:34 -0700
From: "Monty Hill"
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Bicyclist killed by SUV on West Union ID's by
police
To:
Message-ID: <450FF789.AEDB.003C.0@tvapdx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

I am sorry, but I cannot stand the line " accidents happen" If everyone
felt as
vulnerable as a bicyclists (or a child crossing the street) there would be
far
fewer crashes and fatalities. Not that crashes would be eliminated, but the
odds would go way down, probably similar to dying while flying in a
commercial
airline. statistical impossible. Far too many motorist drive with
carelessness. Why?? because it's not their life in jeoprady. "Who gives a
damn if someone else dies. As long as I can keep driving my oversized
gutless
gashog."