GEORGE SCHRECK
I have no problem with a mix, but in the end, I think the course should
eb designed to clearly favor a cross bike. I think the OBRA races work
fine in that regard.
I do not think the races should have a lot of single track (some is
fine), as it is difficult to pass and is really not what I think cross
is about. As for Johnson farm, given the choppyness and great deal of
single track and few open areas, I do not think it was a good cross
course. That is why a lot of people used mountian bikes and a lot of
people skipped the race.
I think the courses we had this year have been excellent.
----Original Message----
From: rondot@spiritone.com
Date: 10/25/2006 8:16 PM
To: "GEORGE SCHRECK", ,
Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] USCF rule changes proposed
I think the cross crusade and other cross promoters (where I have
raced)
have it RIGHT. Every course (even Johnson Farm) favored cross bikes.
Some
may not agree, but trying to push or carry a mountain bike over or up
tough
sections is much tougher than a cross bike. I bet that most winners
and
placers are/have been on cross bikes as well. I firmly believe that
there
needs to be some ROUGH sections on every course to promote improved
technical riding skills or better skill carrying the bike. The most
wonderful thing about my experience in cross is that it really can
bring
both road and mountain racers together. If the course favors one over
the
other it is not cross. Smooth grass on a dry day is not a cross
course.
That is the stuff we rode on as kids. In my opinion a cross course
needs to
present a challenge somewhere between a mountainbike cross country
course
and a criterium. Not the extremes of each (babyhead sized rocks all
over or
super smooth pavement on the majority), but surfaces and challenges
that
cross bikes can take. I hop my bike over some logs/rock/roots and
dismount
and carry over others. You hear riders always talking about finding a
good
line. That is the cross challenge... finding the good line for the
whole
course. I take my cross bike out and ride it on single track every
year.
The small stuff I ride, the big stuff I carry. Very different than
letting
my shock eat the big stuff, but it really helps me not whine about the
bumps
in the grassy fields or other stuff that ya just navigate through. If
the
courses get what I call "neutered" that will sure take a BIG bite out
of
alot of riders fun. I know that some courses bug you George, but you
do
much better on them than you think you do. This last one you were
within
seconds of my finish and there were some sketchy sections. That run-
up hurt
me more than the Flying M run-ups last year... but of course I can
compare
again this Sunday.
Thanks for listening to my thoughts, but I like our cross courses. On
flat
fast ones I really suck. On the more technical ones I feel more
competitive. To me that makes for equality as long as we get a good
mix. I
think some of our courses offer both. NW Cross is great!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "GEORGE SCHRECK"
To: ;
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] USCF rule changes proposed
> Sorry If I misled you. I do not advocate banning mountain bikes. I
> think someone should be able to ride any bicycle they want so long
as
> it does not jeopardize safety. I only suggest that the courses be
set
> up so that they favor cross bicycles and not road or mountain bikes.
> If someone still wants to use a mountain bike or a road bike, fine
by
> me.
>
> I agree that requiring a cross bike is a barrrier to participation.
I
> nkow a lot of people who started with a mountain bike, and by the
next
> year, bought a cross bike. They probably would not be racing cross
> today if they had been required to buy a cross bike before they even
> tried it. In fact, by making the courses favor cross bikes, it
> encourages people to eventually make the investment if they want to
be
> competitive.
>
> Make the course designs disfavor the use of a mountain bike, but do
> not prevent someone from using one. Not to say that I have not
used a
> mountain bike on a technical cross course from time to time to try
to
> compensate for my poor off-road technical skills.
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: james.p.freyensee@intel.com
> Date: 10/25/2006 2:18 PM
> To:
> Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] USCF rule changes proposed
>
> Though 'cross is extremely popular here, in general, it is not
popular
> at all in the US. Chances are a bicycle owner owns a mtn. bike
and/or
> road bike over a 'cross bike. I know a lot of people that wound up
> buying a cross bike just to race 'cross after they tried a few
'cross
> races with their mtn. bike and got hooked on the 'cross scene. So
> looking at the rules technically and not allowing mtn bikes in a
cross
> race could (or in my opinion, would) hurt the sport (though banning
> mtn
> bikes at say, 'cross nationals, would make more sense because you
> would
> think the people that want to compete at that level would have a
> 'cross
> bike at their disposal).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On
> Behalf Of GEORGE SCHRECK
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 1:28 PM
> To: Montyh@tvapdx.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] USCF rule changes proposed
>
>
>
> Well, technically, OBRA rules aside, there are not supposed to be
any
> mountain bikes in a cross race.
>
> Cross was originally developed in Europe to be off season training
> for
> road racers. It is not supposed to be fall/winter mountain biking.
> That said, the venues often dictate the type of course, but given
the
> acceptance of cross in Europe, cross racers are not often banished
> non-
> park like locations as we often seem to be (remember how nice
Jackson
> School was and how Estacada was when we could go around the athletic
> fields).
>
> If possible, given the limitations of the venues, I think the
courses
> should be designed so that a mountain bike will be at a disadvantage
> versus a cross bike. I think the Oregon organizers try to do so
when
> possible, although some venues may make it difficult (i.e. Scouters
> Mountain).
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: Montyh@tvapdx.com
> Date: 10/25/2006 11:34 AM
> To:
> Subj: Re: [OBRA Chat] USCF rule changes proposed
>
> I like some of both for the 'cross races. The cross crusade is a
lot
> of fun and a challenge for me, USCF should use it as an example.
>
> Taking away the barriers, I hope not, I am just starting to get the
> hang of it.
>
> Maybe some purist want to make sure Mtn. Bikes have no advantage?
>
>
>
>
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>
>>>> "Stephen Hemminger" 10/25/2006 11:
> 15
> am >>>
> It looks like another part of the ongoing controversy about whether
> cross should have open fast courses like Europe, or more single
track
> technical courses like mountain biking. In most areas of the US (at
> least from pictures), the trend is towards more Euro open courses.
>
> It's really all about personal preference.
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