Brian Engelen

Please don't take this as a personal attack. I'm just doing this for fun.
My objective observation and this is what you are up against:

1. The Coaster Brake is already and accepted method for braking.
2. The Coaster Brake pedal/chain/sprocket force required to brake is
noticeably less in comparison.

a. Due to the mechanism used.

3. To one degree, on a component basis, the freewheel removes the
pedaling action from the braking action.

a. Braking does not happen when you stop pedaling.

Safety risk assessments are done for industrial machinery and maybe some of
the concepts can be used here. My observation is that the coaster brake
would rate a safer score. Determining if something is safe is not a black
and white decision and this doesn't mean that the fixed gear is unsafe.
However, no one will accept the "professional" responsibility for changing
the accepted standard for safe unless some clear improvements are shown.
The person repsonsible for saying something is safe is the person that gets
named in the lawsuit when someone gets hurt.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of John Forbes
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 2:01 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Coaster brake-vs-fixie

How, pray, does a coaster brake equipped bike stay legal while a fixie
isn't? Both stop by applying back pressure on the pedals. One has no problem
in Oregon while the other is under attack.

Any well informed person out there have an answer?

John Forbes

David Auker

> Fixed gear bikes on the other hand have nothing that is considered by
> them to be a "separate braking device". The judge and the cops don't
> accept the argument that the chain itself and/or the rider's muscles
> can be considered the brake.
In my opinion, the best scenario would have the rider pass a test to
show they can stop the bike using the chain and muscle, as a brake
caliper-less fixed-gear can't be stopped by just anyone...it takes a lot
of skill. It's a trick, and I think stopping a vehicle in a more
standard manner is what the cops and judge are seeking. Tough
issue...I wouldn't want to be in the position to decide the legality,
but I personally ride fixed-gear with two caliper brakes for fine-tuning
my braking modulation (but typically using just the legs).

David

Jonathan Maus wrote:
> John,
>
> Fixies aren't illegal. Unfortunately we have a situation where there
> just happens to be a few cops (Barnum and Balzer mostly) who are
> interpreting the law that way. Remember, there have only been 2
> judges who have ruled on this case. One (Judge Larsen) ruled in
> favor of fixies, the other (Judge Lowe) has ruled against them in
> numerous cases.
>
> That being said, in regards to your point, I think the cops and the
> anti-fixie judge would argue that the coaster brake is exactly that, a
> "brake"....it is a mechanism specifically designed to bring the
> bicycle to a stop.
>
> Fixed gear bikes on the other hand have nothing that is considered by
> them to be a "separate braking device". The judge and the cops don't
> accept the argument that the chain itself and/or the rider's muscles
> can be considered the brake.
>
> Bottom line is that if we don't see a legislative action to more
> clearly define the law, I think we'll at least need to have a mediated
> sit-down discussion between PDOT, bike advocates, lawyers, and the
> Police Bureau to come to a solution that works for everyone.
>
> There are more chapters yet to be written in this saga.
>
> I'm sure Mark Ginsberg will have more to add...
>
> Cheers,
> --Jonathan
> -----------------------------
> Jonathan Maus
> BikePortland.org
> "Daily news, culture, events and opinion"
> www.BikePortland.org
> (503) 706-8804
>
>
>
> On 11/18/2006 2:01:10 PM, John Forbes (john@lakeside-bikes.com
> ) wrote:
> > How, pray, does a coaster brake equipped bike stay legal while a
> fixie isn't? Both stop by applying back pressure on the pedals. One
> has no problem in Oregon while the other is under attack.
> > Any well informed person out there have an answer?
> > John Forbes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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> OBRA mailing list
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>

Jonathan Maus

John,

Fixies aren't illegal. Unfortunately we have a situation where there just happens to be a few cops (Barnum and Balzer mostly) who are interpreting the law that way. Remember, there have only been 2 judges who have ruled on this case. One (Judge Larsen) ruled in favor of fixies, the other (Judge Lowe) has ruled against them in numerous cases.

That being said, in regards to your point, I think the cops and the anti-fixie judge would argue that the coaster brake is exactly that, a "brake"....it is a mechanism specifically designed to bring the bicycle to a stop.

Fixed gear bikes on the other hand have nothing that is considered by them to be a "separate braking device". The judge and the cops don't accept the argument that the chain itself and/or the rider's muscles can be considered the brake.

Bottom line is that if we don't see a legislative action to more clearly define the law, I think we'll at least need to have a mediated sit-down discussion between PDOT, bike advocates, lawyers, and the Police Bureau to come to a solution that works for everyone.

There are more chapters yet to be written in this saga.

I'm sure Mark Ginsberg will have more to add...

Cheers,
--Jonathan
-----------------------------
Jonathan Maus
BikePortland.org
"Daily news, culture, events and opinion"
www.BikePortland.org
(503) 706-8804

On 11/18/2006 2:01:10 PM, John Forbes (john@lakeside-bikes.com) wrote:
> How, pray, does a coaster brake equipped bike stay legal while a fixie isn't? Both stop by applying back pressure on the pedals. One has no problem in Oregon while the other is under attack.
> Any well informed person out there have an answer?
> John Forbes

John Forbes

How, pray, does a coaster brake equipped bike stay legal while a fixie isn't? Both stop by applying back pressure on the pedals. One has no problem in Oregon while the other is under attack.
Any well informed person out there have an answer?
John Forbes