Mike said:
...It appears that Jon had at least as many course marshals as most races...
Suggestion: Equip course marshalls with whistles (and find some way to
sanitize between uses??). I've seen this at races...pretty cool: you
can really tell where the riders are on the course, even when out of
sight.
David "I'm helping tomorrow" A.
This is the most rational comment of this whole thread. We can have lots of
laws, lots of lawsuits, lots of complaints, lots of letter and e-mail
writing and there is still the problem that there are WAY too few people
doing all the work that is required to put on the bike races that you go to.
It appears that Jon had at least as many course marshals as most races but I
am sure that he will agree that it was difficult to arrange the ones that he
has. More course marshals makes it less likely that a dog, skateboarder,
walker, etc. will wonder on to a course. More people on the set up and take
down crew makes it possible to put up more signage, snow fencing, etc. to
prevent the same things. If there were more people doing more things to
support bike races then bike racing would be better and safer for all.
Mike Murray
Jim Anderson [mailto:spa-@teleport.com] wrote:
"How can OBRA Members/cycling enthusiasts handle this?
Offer to volunteer as a course marshall. What is more EXCITING than
helping out at a race, cheering on racers, getting to wear a orange
safety vests, promoting the sport and getting to use a two-way radio?
Get out and help after/before/during the races at Mt. Tabor if your
concerned
racer. I KNOW for sure Jon Puskas and Bruce Harmon(this weekends mt
tabor organizer) would like to talk with you.
SO...IF you've never volunteered before better do it now!!"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0FFD5.434B5020
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Actually, everyone who takes their dog off the leash in an area where it is
illegal is bad and is a menace, among other things not suitable for family
reading.
-----Original Message-----
From: Becky and Nikos [mailto:niko-@dslnorthwest.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:21 AM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Dogs at Mt. Tabor Park
============================================================
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OK, when will we understand that it does not take the laws of a city to
police one's dogs or attitudes but the rules inside one's head, common
sense, respect and the right mindset. If one guy does not have the sense to
leash his dog because of stupidity or lack of common sense it does not mean
that everyone who takes their dog off leash is bad or a menace.
A little bit of thinking goes a long way.
Respectfully,
Nikos Tzetos
============================================================
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D990132020-28062001>Actually, everyone who takes their dog off =
the leash in=20
an area where it is illegal is bad and is a menace, among other things =
not=20
suitable for family reading.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Becky and Nikos=20
[mailto:niko-@dslnorthwest.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 28, =
2001=20
9:21 AM<BR><B>To:</B> ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA =
Chat] Dogs=20
at Mt. Tabor =
Park<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><PRE>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Get 4 Omaha Steaks Filet Mignons, 6 Top Sirloins, or our
Filet & Strip Combo for only $29.99 each. Order now and
you'll also get 6 Burgers FREE! Stock up for BBQ season with
sizzlin' savings from Omaha Steaks!
<A =
href=3D"http://click.topica.com/caaacxDaVxiDpaVIow3b/OmahaSteaks">http://=
click.topica.com/caaacxDaVxiDpaVIow3b/OmahaSteaks</A>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</PRE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>OK, when will we understand that it =
does not take=20
the laws of a city to police one's dogs or attitudes but the rules =
inside=20
one's head, common sense, respect and the right mindset. If one guy =
does not=20
have the sense to leash his dog because of stupidity or lack of common =
sense=20
it does not mean that everyone who takes their dog off leash is bad or =
a=20
menace. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A little bit of thinking goes a long=20
way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Respectfully,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nikos =
Tzetos</FONT></DIV><PRE>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Well said Mark Ginsberg, Esq.
But also...
How can OBRA Members/cycling enthusiasts handle this?
Offer to volunteer as a course marshall. What is more EXCITING than
helping out at a race, cheering on racers, getting to wear a orange
safety vests, promoting the sport and getting to use a two-way radio?
Get out and help after/before/during the races at Mt. Tabor if your
concerned
racer. I KNOW for sure Jon Puskas and Bruce Harmon(this weekends mt
tabor organizer) would like to talk with you.
SO...IF you've never volunteered before better do it now!!
-Jim Anderson
markjgi-@yahoo.com wrote:
============================================================
Get 4 Omaha Steaks Filet Mignons, 6 Top Sirloins, or our
Filet & Strip Combo for only $29.99 each. Order now and
you'll also get 6 Burgers FREE! Stock up for BBQ season with
sizzlin' savings from Omaha Steaks!
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============================================================
I've been keeping quiet on this topic for a while. For those who don't
know I am a lawyer and bike racer, maybe in that order.
I agree with Mark Greenwood that suing the city for lack of
enforcement b/c some folks got scratched up b/c a dog owner was
breaking the law is probably a short term victory with bad long term
problems.
That said I think that there are some case where lawsuits are very
good and do work to help protect all of us, and do change the law. Did
any see the movie Erin Brockovitch?
My recomendation is to try to work more closely with the Mt. Tabor
Park folks to see what we can do the help pressure the city (on behalf
of us and other park users) who do not like dogs off lease. I used to
live right on the park and bike through it 2 times a day on my commute
to work, and the off lease dogs always drove me nuts.
I think if each one of us, instead of writing emails with lots of
capital letters in them took the time to write a nice letter to Mayor
Katz, 1221 SW 4th, room 340, Portland, OR 97204, and told her, Hey I
use the park to ride my bike and the off lease dogs are a danger,
please let me know what you are going to do about it. Or even just
call her office and let them know how you feel (503) 823-4120. I bet
we see a much better response than yelling at each other about my
scratched ergo shifter b/c I was in that pill up caused by that damn
pomeranian.
respectfully,
Mark Ginsberg, Esq.
eric.k-@kingdesign.com wrote:
Attorney At Law
851 SW 6th Ave., Ste. 1600
Portland OR 97204
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 248-6800
markjgi-@yahoo.com
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Jim Anderson
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I've been keeping quiet on this topic for a while. For those who don't know I am a lawyer and bike racer, maybe in that order.
I agree with Mark Greenwood that suing the city for lack of enforcement b/c some folks got scratched up b/c a dog owner was breaking the law is probably a short term victory with bad long term problems.
That said I think that there are some case where lawsuits are very good and do work to help protect all of us, and do change the law. Did any see the movie Erin Brockovitch?
My recomendation is to try to work more closely with the Mt. Tabor Park folks to see what we can do the help pressure the city (on behalf of us and other park users) who do not like dogs off lease. I used to live right on the park and bike through it 2 times a day on my commute to work, and the off lease dogs always drove me nuts.
I think if each one of us, instead of writing emails with lots of capital letters in them took the time to write a nice letter to Mayor Katz, 1221 SW 4th, room 340, Portland, OR 97204, and told her, Hey I use the park to ride my bike and the off lease dogs are a danger, please let me know what you are going to do about it. Or even just call her office and let them know how you feel (503) 823-4120. I bet we see a much better response than yelling at each other about my scratched ergo shifter b/c I was in that pill up caused by that damn pomeranian.
respectfully,
Mark Ginsberg, Esq.
eric.k-@kingdesign.com wrote: ============================================================
Get 4 Omaha Steaks Filet Mignons, 6 Top Sirloins, or our
Filet & Strip Combo for only $29.99 each. Order now and
you'll also get 6 Burgers FREE! Stock up for BBQ season with
sizzlin' savings from Omaha Steaks!
http://click.topica.com/caaacxDaVxiDpaVI67fa/OmahaSteaks
============================================================
even if you win the lawsuit, the occasional careless dog owner will show up
during the race anyway. what is the city going to do, line the course with
tazer totting gaurdsmen?? there is a law now - it doesn't work. no amount of
lawsuit is going to "fix" the problem. does anyone remember Zabel getting
boinked off course by a horse last year in that Classic race? it
happens.....
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Greenwood [mailto:mgree-@tqs.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:41 AM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Dogs at Mt. Tabor Park
============================================================
Get 4 Omaha Steaks Filet Mignons, 6 Top Sirloins, or our
Filet & Strip Combo for only $29.99 each. Order now and
you'll also get 6 Burgers FREE! Stock up for BBQ season with
sizzlin' savings from Omaha Steaks!
http://click.topica.com/caaacxDaVxiDpaVI6vTa/OmahaSteaks
============================================================
I'm a big proponent of having people obey the law, particularly when my
well-being is involved.
I think we have to ask, though, "will pursuing a massive lawsuit help or
hurt the cause of bike racing?" I can't see any reasonable scenario in
which we come out in a better situation via that avenue. The most
likely scenario is that non-cyclists (there are a lot of 'em!) would
react by pushing to disallow bike races because they're dangerous and a
potential liability to the city, and then right or wrong, the damage
would be done. I think we have to acknowledge that there's a large part
of the community that probably feels the same way about "those dangerous
bike racers" as we do about the threat of off-leash dogs near the
course. Do we want to feel vindicated because we won some technical
point and end up losing our cause in the long run? Instead, we should
work to help them understand how they can interact with us so we both
stay safe.
Racing will be risky no matter how much the laws are enforced. I'd
prefer not to lose my opportunities to race because the populace is
prodded into being more and more anti-cyclist. Let's pick our battles
carefully.
Phil Harden wrote:
Let me set the record straight. THERE IS NO OFF LEASH AREA IN MT. TABOR
PARK!!!!!! How do I know this. My wife was on the planning committee
that decided how improvement monies were to be spent. I also attended 2
or 3 meetings and lobbied hard against an off leash area. The reason
for no off leash area is environmental. Therefore, if 5 people were
selling drugs on the street corner in front of your house everyday at
5:30pm, how long would you put up with that. When would you call the
police? If people repeatedly stole your car or your neighbor's car
every day at 5:30pm, how long would you put up with that. The point is
this. According to the city and the elected officials, there is not any
money for enforcement. The only solution is a massive settlement from a
successful law suit. The only thing that liberal politicians will
understand is an order from a judge. The duly enacted laws don't mean a
thing to our city government. I have tried for years to get something
done about the dogs in Mt. Tabor Park. And this was when I was part of
the group that originally organized the summer series, not the Mt Tabor
Crit. But I bet they have experienced many of the same problems.
Thanks,
Phil Harden
============================================================
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Mark J. GinsbergAttorney At Law851 SW 6th Ave., Ste. 1600Portland OR 97204(503) 542-3000Fax (503) 248-6800 markjgi-@yahoo.com
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<P> I've been keeping quiet on this topic for a while. For those who don't know I am a lawyer and bike racer, maybe in that order.
<P>I agree with Mark Greenwood that suing the city for lack of enforcement b/c some folks got scratched up b/c a dog owner was breaking the law is probably a short term victory with bad long term problems.
<P>That said I think that there are some case where lawsuits are very good and do work to help protect all of us, and do change the law. Did any see the movie Erin Brockovitch?
<P>My recomendation is to try to work more closely with the Mt. Tabor Park folks to see what we can do the help pressure the city (on behalf of us and other park users) who do not like dogs off lease. I used to live right on the park and bike through it 2 times a day on my commute to work, and the off lease dogs always drove me nuts.
<P>I think if each one of us, instead of writing emails with lots of capital letters in them took the time to write a nice letter to Mayor Katz, 1221 SW 4th, room 340, Portland, OR 97204, and told her, Hey I use the park to ride my bike and the off lease dogs are a danger, please let me know what you are going to do about it. Or even just call her office and let them know how you feel (503) 823-4120. I bet we see a much better response than yelling at each other about my scratched ergo shifter b/c I was in that pill up caused by that damn pomeranian.
<P>respectfully,
<P>Mark Ginsberg, Esq.
<P> <B><I>eric.k-@kingdesign.com</I></B> wrote:
<ADDRESS>Attorney At Law</ADDRESS>
<ADDRESS>851 SW 6th Ave., Ste. 1600</ADDRESS>
<ADDRESS>Portland OR 97204</ADDRESS>
<ADDRESS>(503) 542-3000</ADDRESS>
<ADDRESS>Fax (503) 248-6800 </ADDRESS>
<ADDRESS><A href="mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com">markjgi-@yahoo.com</A></ADDRESS>
<ADDRESS> </ADDRESS><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
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--0-678811540-993752598=:7699--
even if you win the lawsuit, the occasional careless dog owner will show up
during the race anyway. what is the city going to do, line the course with
tazer totting gaurdsmen?? there is a law now - it doesn't work. no amount of
lawsuit is going to "fix" the problem. does anyone remember Zabel getting
boinked off course by a horse last year in that Classic race? it
happens.....
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Greenwood [mailto:mgree-@tqs.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:41 AM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Dogs at Mt. Tabor Park
============================================================
Get 4 Omaha Steaks Filet Mignons, 6 Top Sirloins, or our
Filet & Strip Combo for only $29.99 each. Order now and
you'll also get 6 Burgers FREE! Stock up for BBQ season with
sizzlin' savings from Omaha Steaks!
http://click.topica.com/caaacxDaVxiDpaVI6vTa/OmahaSteaks
============================================================
I'm a big proponent of having people obey the law, particularly when my
well-being is involved.
I think we have to ask, though, "will pursuing a massive lawsuit help or
hurt the cause of bike racing?" I can't see any reasonable scenario in
which we come out in a better situation via that avenue. The most
likely scenario is that non-cyclists (there are a lot of 'em!) would
react by pushing to disallow bike races because they're dangerous and a
potential liability to the city, and then right or wrong, the damage
would be done. I think we have to acknowledge that there's a large part
of the community that probably feels the same way about "those dangerous
bike racers" as we do about the threat of off-leash dogs near the
course. Do we want to feel vindicated because we won some technical
point and end up losing our cause in the long run? Instead, we should
work to help them understand how they can interact with us so we both
stay safe.
Racing will be risky no matter how much the laws are enforced. I'd
prefer not to lose my opportunities to race because the populace is
prodded into being more and more anti-cyclist. Let's pick our battles
carefully.
Phil Harden wrote:
Let me set the record straight. THERE IS NO OFF LEASH AREA IN MT. TABOR
PARK!!!!!! How do I know this. My wife was on the planning committee
that decided how improvement monies were to be spent. I also attended 2
or 3 meetings and lobbied hard against an off leash area. The reason
for no off leash area is environmental. Therefore, if 5 people were
selling drugs on the street corner in front of your house everyday at
5:30pm, how long would you put up with that. When would you call the
police? If people repeatedly stole your car or your neighbor's car
every day at 5:30pm, how long would you put up with that. The point is
this. According to the city and the elected officials, there is not any
money for enforcement. The only solution is a massive settlement from a
successful law suit. The only thing that liberal politicians will
understand is an order from a judge. The duly enacted laws don't mean a
thing to our city government. I have tried for years to get something
done about the dogs in Mt. Tabor Park. And this was when I was part of
the group that originally organized the summer series, not the Mt Tabor
Crit. But I bet they have experienced many of the same problems.
Thanks,
Phil Harden
============================================================
*** CABLE TV BOXES & DESCRAMBLERS ***
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Well said Mark. My guess is that we are probably (technically) violating
some city ordinance or traffic code by having 30 riders, only feet apart,
descending at 40+ miles per hour through a park. Even if we aren't, I'm
sure that a few park users consider it very dangerous and would love the
city to ban it. Hopefully they aren't thinking about a lawsuit.
-Rob Burkhart
From: Mark Greenwood <mgree-@tqs.com>
Reply-To: mgree-@tqs.com
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Dogs at Mt. Tabor Park
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:40:32 +0000
============================================================
Get 4 Omaha Steaks Filet Mignons, 6 Top Sirloins, or our
Filet & Strip Combo for only $29.99 each. Order now and
you'll also get 6 Burgers FREE! Stock up for BBQ season with
sizzlin' savings from Omaha Steaks!
http://click.topica.com/caaacxDaVxiDpaVHXala/OmahaSteaks
============================================================
I'm a big proponent of having people obey the law, particularly when my
well-being is involved.
I think we have to ask, though, "will pursuing a massive lawsuit help or
hurt the cause of bike racing?" I can't see any reasonable scenario in
which we come out in a better situation via that avenue. The most
likely scenario is that non-cyclists (there are a lot of 'em!) would
react by pushing to disallow bike races because they're dangerous and a
potential liability to the city, and then right or wrong, the damage
would be done. I think we have to acknowledge that there's a large part
of the community that probably feels the same way about "those dangerous
bike racers" as we do about the threat of off-leash dogs near the
course. Do we want to feel vindicated because we won some technical
point and end up losing our cause in the long run? Instead, we should
work to help them understand how they can interact with us so we both
stay safe.
Racing will be risky no matter how much the laws are enforced. I'd
prefer not to lose my opportunities to race because the populace is
prodded into being more and more anti-cyclist. Let's pick our battles
carefully.
Phil Harden wrote:
Let me set the record straight. THERE IS NO OFF LEASH AREA IN MT. TABOR
PARK!!!!!! How do I know this. My wife was on the planning committee
that decided how improvement monies were to be spent. I also attended 2
or 3 meetings and lobbied hard against an off leash area. The reason
for no off leash area is environmental. Therefore, if 5 people were
selling drugs on the street corner in front of your house everyday at
5:30pm, how long would you put up with that. When would you call the
police? If people repeatedly stole your car or your neighbor's car
every day at 5:30pm, how long would you put up with that. The point is
this. According to the city and the elected officials, there is not any
money for enforcement. The only solution is a massive settlement from a
successful law suit. The only thing that liberal politicians will
understand is an order from a judge. The duly enacted laws don't mean a
thing to our city government. I have tried for years to get something
done about the dogs in Mt. Tabor Park. And this was when I was part of
the group that originally organized the summer series, not the Mt Tabor
Crit. But I bet they have experienced many of the same problems.
Thanks,
Phil Harden
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I'm a big proponent of having people obey the law, particularly when my
well-being is involved.
I think we have to ask, though, "will pursuing a massive lawsuit help or
hurt the cause of bike racing?" I can't see any reasonable scenario in
which we come out in a better situation via that avenue. The most
likely scenario is that non-cyclists (there are a lot of 'em!) would
react by pushing to disallow bike races because they're dangerous and a
potential liability to the city, and then right or wrong, the damage
would be done. I think we have to acknowledge that there's a large part
of the community that probably feels the same way about "those dangerous
bike racers" as we do about the threat of off-leash dogs near the
course. Do we want to feel vindicated because we won some technical
point and end up losing our cause in the long run? Instead, we should
work to help them understand how they can interact with us so we both
stay safe.
Racing will be risky no matter how much the laws are enforced. I'd
prefer not to lose my opportunities to race because the populace is
prodded into being more and more anti-cyclist. Let's pick our battles
carefully.
Phil Harden wrote:
Let me set the record straight. THERE IS NO OFF LEASH AREA IN MT. TABOR
PARK!!!!!! How do I know this. My wife was on the planning committee
that decided how improvement monies were to be spent. I also attended 2
or 3 meetings and lobbied hard against an off leash area. The reason
for no off leash area is environmental. Therefore, if 5 people were
selling drugs on the street corner in front of your house everyday at
5:30pm, how long would you put up with that. When would you call the
police? If people repeatedly stole your car or your neighbor's car
every day at 5:30pm, how long would you put up with that. The point is
this. According to the city and the elected officials, there is not any
money for enforcement. The only solution is a massive settlement from a
successful law suit. The only thing that liberal politicians will
understand is an order from a judge. The duly enacted laws don't mean a
thing to our city government. I have tried for years to get something
done about the dogs in Mt. Tabor Park. And this was when I was part of
the group that originally organized the summer series, not the Mt Tabor
Crit. But I bet they have experienced many of the same problems.
Thanks,
Phil Harden
Oh John you naive ladd. Didn't you know conservative and moderate
politicians understand the law, and their love or is it disdain for
regulations? I'm often confused myself.
I am curious what the environmental concern was for not having an off-leash
area at Mt. Tabor . Seems that un-leashed dogs are similar to drug dealers,
and car thieves when looking at community livability. Must admit that is
quite a dog!
GC
-----Original Message-----
From: John Bravard [mailto:jbra-@pacifier.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:18 AM
To: Phil Harden
Cc: ob-@topica.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Dogs at Mt. Tabor Park
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for enforcement. The only solution is a massive settlement from a
successful law suit. The only thing that liberal politicians will
understand is an order from a judge. The duly enacted laws don't mean a
Pardon my political naivety, but what are the things that conservative or
moderate politicians understand?
JB
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Phil Harden wrote:
Let me set the record straight. THERE IS NO OFF LEASH AREA IN MT. TABOR
PARK!!!!!! How do I know this. My wife was on the planning committee that
decided how improvement monies were to be spent. I also attended 2 or 3
meetings and lobbied hard against an off leash area. The reason for no off
leash area is environmental. Therefore, if 5 people were selling drugs on
the street corner in front of your house everyday at 5:30pm, how long would
you put up with that. When would you call the police? If people repeatedly
stole your car or your neighbor's car every day at 5:30pm, how long would
you put up with that. The point is this. According to the city and the
elected officials, there is not any money for enforcement. The only
solution is a massive settlement from a successful law suit. The only thing
that liberal politicians will understand is an order from a judge. The duly
enacted laws don't mean a thing to our city government. I have tried for
years to get something done about the dogs in Mt. Tabor Park. And this was
when I was part of the group that originally organized the summer series,
not the Mt Tabor Crit. But I bet they have experienced many of the same
problems.
Thanks,
Phil Harden
============================================================
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============================================================
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0FFB3.A12A32A0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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OK, when will we understand that it does not take the laws of a city to =
police one's dogs or attitudes but the rules inside one's head, common =
sense, respect and the right mindset. If one guy does not have the sense =
to leash his dog because of stupidity or lack of common sense it does =
not mean that everyone who takes their dog off leash is bad or a menace. =
A little bit of thinking goes a long way.
Respectfully,
Nikos Tzetos
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0FFB3.A12A32A0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>OK, when will we understand that it =
does not take=20
the laws of a city to police one's dogs or attitudes but the rules =
inside one's=20
head, common sense, respect and the right mindset. If one guy does not =
have the=20
sense to leash his dog because of stupidity or lack of common sense it =
does not=20
mean that everyone who takes their dog off leash is bad or a menace.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A little bit of thinking goes a long=20
way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Respectfully,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nikos Tzetos</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0FFB3.A12A32A0--
for enforcement. The only solution is a massive settlement from a
successful law suit. The only thing that liberal politicians will
understand is an order from a judge. The duly enacted laws don't mean a
Pardon my political naivety, but what are the things that conservative or
moderate politicians understand?
JB
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Phil Harden wrote:
Let me set the record straight. THERE IS NO OFF LEASH AREA IN MT. TABOR =
PARK!!!!!! How do I know this. My wife was on the planning committee that=
decided how improvement monies were to be spent. I also attended 2 or 3 m=
eetings and lobbied hard against an off leash area. The reason for no off =
leash area is environmental. Therefore, if 5 people were selling drugs on =
the street corner in front of your house everyday at 5:30pm, how long would=
you put up with that. When would you call the police? If people repeated=
ly stole your car or your neighbor's car every day at 5:30pm, how long woul=
d you put up with that. The point is this. According to the city and the =
elected officials, there is not any money for enforcement. The only soluti=
on is a massive settlement from a successful law suit. The only thing that=
liberal politicians will understand is an order from a judge. The duly en=
acted laws don't mean a thing to our city government. I have tried for year=
s to get something done about the dogs in Mt. Tabor Park. And this was whe=
n I was part of the group that originally organized the summer series, not =
the Mt Tabor Crit. But I bet they have experienced many of the same proble=
ms.
Thanks,
Phil Harden
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C0FF9B.4DF9BC80
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Let me set the record straight. THERE IS NO OFF LEASH AREA IN MT. TABOR =
PARK!!!!!! How do I know this. My wife was on the planning committee =
that decided how improvement monies were to be spent. I also attended 2 =
or 3 meetings and lobbied hard against an off leash area. The reason =
for no off leash area is environmental. Therefore, if 5 people were =
selling drugs on the street corner in front of your house everyday at =
5:30pm, how long would you put up with that. When would you call the =
police? If people repeatedly stole your car or your neighbor's car =
every day at 5:30pm, how long would you put up with that. The point is =
this. According to the city and the elected officials, there is not any =
money for enforcement. The only solution is a massive settlement from a =
successful law suit. The only thing that liberal politicians will =
understand is an order from a judge. The duly enacted laws don't mean a =
thing to our city government. I have tried for years to get something =
done about the dogs in Mt. Tabor Park. And this was when I was part of =
the group that originally organized the summer series, not the Mt Tabor =
Crit. But I bet they have experienced many of the same problems.
Thanks,
Phil Harden
------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C0FF9B.4DF9BC80
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Let me set the record straight. =
THERE IS NO=20
OFF LEASH AREA IN MT. TABOR PARK!!!!!! How do I know this. =
My wife=20
was on the planning committee that decided how improvement monies were =
to be=20
spent. I also attended 2 or 3 meetings and lobbied hard against an =
off=20
leash area. The reason for no off leash area is =
environmental. =20
Therefore, if 5 people were selling drugs on the street corner in front =
of your=20
house everyday at 5:30pm, how long would you put up with that. =
When would=20
you call the police? If people repeatedly stole your car or your=20
neighbor's car every day at 5:30pm, how long would you put up with =
that. =20
The point is this. According to the city and the elected =
officials, there=20
is not any money for enforcement. The only solution is a massive=20
settlement from a successful law suit. The only thing that liberal =
politicians will understand is an order from a judge. The duly =
enacted=20
laws don't mean a thing to our city government. I have tried for years =
to get=20
something done about the dogs in Mt. Tabor Park. And this was when =
I was=20
part of the group that originally organized the summer series, not the =
Mt Tabor=20
Crit. But I bet they have experienced many of the same=20
problems.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,<BR>Phil =
Harden</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C0FF9B.4DF9BC80--
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