KARL CHOLTUS

Brian Engelen

With TORT limits like every other civilized (and bike racing) nation in the
world.....

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Leibowitz, Flo
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 10:37 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA INSURANCE COSTS

And, in the very long run....

3) You can lobby your Congressional representatives to create a sane
national health care plan, like every other civilized (and bike racing)
nation in the world. Maybe one day, small business and small user-friendly
organizations like OBRA won't be footing the bill for this sort of thing.

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
Sent: Wed 12/6/2006 10:29 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA INSURANCE COSTS

It looks like it is time again for my insurance rant. This is prompted by
finding out yesterday that OBRA will have a substantial increase in the cost
for insurance for 2007.

First, a little insurance primer. In order to hold bike races we need to
have liability insurance. This insurance protects people associated with
the event from costs associated with claims of negligence. If it was just
OBRA assets that were being protected it might be reasonable to not insure
this since OBRA assets are not large. The problem is that other entities
need to be protected. Race organizers, officials, volunteers, etc. need to
be protected so that they do not bear the costs of any claim individually.
More importantly, road use authorities and land owners will not give us
permission to use venues unless we can protect their assets.

In order to purchase liability insurance the liability insurance provider
requires that we purchase medical coverage. The principle is that it is
less likely that someone will bring a negligence claim if at least a portion
of their medical losses are covered. This idea is becoming less viable in
the current medical/legal climate but regardless liability insurance
providers require that we purchase medical and they really don't care much
what that costs us since we buy medical coverage from a different company.
It should be noted that this same principle applies to other business
owner's insurance, e.g. the grocery store that you go to has a medical
policy tacked on to their liability plan that will provide coverage to
people that slip on the floor, get sick from food purchased, etc. In
contrast to USAC, OBRA does not advertise the availability of medical
coverage to members just like Fred Meyers does not advertise medical
coverage as a benefit of being a customer. This is one of the reasons why
the insurance costs for OBRA are considerably lower than they are for USAC.

OBRA really doesn't need to purchase medical insurance for members other
than as required by liability insurance providers. It is very rare that an
injury at a bike race will be due to negligence on the part of anyone other
than the participants. Unfortunately injuries happen at bike races
frequently. This is part of the deal and it is the reason why everyone
needs to provide for their own health care coverage.

The problem is that many people do not carry personal health care coverage,
for many reasons. When these people injured in a fall they either pay out
of pocket or they claim against the OBRA coverage. In addition even insured
people often make claims since medical costs are so high that the amount not
covered by their insurance may be substantial. When these claims get made
the loss record for OBRA is worse and inevitably the insurance costs go up.

I should point out that OBRA to date has never had a liability loss. On the
medical side, however, the few claims that have been paid have far exceeded
the premium we paid for the last 3 years. In 2006 the cost of the medical
policy was 25% of the total cost for insurance. If we keep the same policy
limits and deductible that number will increase 369% for 2007 making the
cost of medical insurance 59% of total insurance costs. There would be a
101% increase in total insurance costs.

To address this we will probably do several things:

1) Increase the deductible and decrease the cap on the medical plan. If we
lower this to an amount that the liability provider will still accept it
still means that there will still be a 56% increase in insurance costs with
the medical premium going up 193% representing 37% of the total insurance
costs. A higher deductible and lower limit means that in order for anyone to
collect from this policy they will need to have a larger loss, they will pay
more out of pocket if they do collect and the maximum amount they can
collect will be smaller.

2) We will need to consider increasing the charge to race organizers for
insurance to cover this increase. This increased charge will likely come
back to everyone in increased entry fees.

3) We are looking at a plan that will offer medical coverage directly to
members. This could be general medical insurance to cover all medical
losses (within the limits of the policy) or a plan that only covers losses
related bike riding. The premium for these policies would be charged
directly to the member. This would decrease the claims against our
liability associated medical plan. We may need to consider requiring that
riders either demonstrate personal medical coverage or purchase it through
an OBRA associated plan.

Those of you that have read this far are probably wondering "What can I do
about this?" There are two things:

1) Don't race (or do anything else) without health insurance. You do not
need to get this from your employer. You can buy it yourself. High
deductible insurance can be cheap. The plan we bought for my son costs
$34.00/month.

2) If you get hurt at a bike race don't make a claim against the OBRA
insurance. After all it is not OBRA's fault that you get hurt. Every
medical claim makes it more likely that OBRA will need to pay more for
insurance. If there are too many claims it is possible that OBRA will not
be able to buy medical insurance at any price and then we will not be able
to buy liability insurance.

If we can't get liability insurance we won't be able to have bike races.

Mike Murray

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Edward Kendrick Sr

Yes. How much longer can Americans live in denial of this problem? Until our credit cards are maxed out over medical bills or until creditors begin holding unpaid medical bills against car loan applicants? Whatever, you know, as long as we keep winning in Iraq.

I've already been writing to our reps, asking them to draft me, instead of my son. They are tired of hearing from me.

----- Original Message ----
From: "Leibowitz, Flo"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 12:36:50 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA INSURANCE COSTS

And, in the very long run....

3) You can lobby your Congressional representatives to create a sane national health care plan, like every other civilized (and bike racing) nation in the world. Maybe one day, small business and small user-friendly organizations like OBRA won't be footing the bill for this sort of thing.

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
Sent: Wed 12/6/2006 10:29 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA INSURANCE COSTS

It looks like it is time again for my insurance rant. This is prompted by
finding out yesterday that OBRA will have a substantial increase in the cost
for insurance for 2007.

First, a little insurance primer. In order to hold bike races we need to
have liability insurance. This insurance protects people associated with
the event from costs associated with claims of negligence. If it was just
OBRA assets that were being protected it might be reasonable to not insure
this since OBRA assets are not large. The problem is that other entities
need to be protected. Race organizers, officials, volunteers, etc. need to
be protected so that they do not bear the costs of any claim individually.
More importantly, road use authorities and land owners will not give us
permission to use venues unless we can protect their assets.

In order to purchase liability insurance the liability insurance provider
requires that we purchase medical coverage. The principle is that it is
less likely that someone will bring a negligence claim if at least a portion
of their medical losses are covered. This idea is becoming less viable in
the current medical/legal climate but regardless liability insurance
providers require that we purchase medical and they really don't care much
what that costs us since we buy medical coverage from a different company.
It should be noted that this same principle applies to other business
owner's insurance, e.g. the grocery store that you go to has a medical
policy tacked on to their liability plan that will provide coverage to
people that slip on the floor, get sick from food purchased, etc. In
contrast to USAC, OBRA does not advertise the availability of medical
coverage to members just like Fred Meyers does not advertise medical
coverage as a benefit of being a customer. This is one of the reasons why
the insurance costs for OBRA are considerably lower than they are for USAC.

OBRA really doesn't need to purchase medical insurance for members other
than as required by liability insurance providers. It is very rare that an
injury at a bike race will be due to negligence on the part of anyone other
than the participants. Unfortunately injuries happen at bike races
frequently. This is part of the deal and it is the reason why everyone
needs to provide for their own health care coverage.

The problem is that many people do not carry personal health care coverage,
for many reasons. When these people injured in a fall they either pay out
of pocket or they claim against the OBRA coverage. In addition even insured
people often make claims since medical costs are so high that the amount not
covered by their insurance may be substantial. When these claims get made
the loss record for OBRA is worse and inevitably the insurance costs go up.

I should point out that OBRA to date has never had a liability loss. On the
medical side, however, the few claims that have been paid have far exceeded
the premium we paid for the last 3 years. In 2006 the cost of the medical
policy was 25% of the total cost for insurance. If we keep the same policy
limits and deductible that number will increase 369% for 2007 making the
cost of medical insurance 59% of total insurance costs. There would be a
101% increase in total insurance costs.

To address this we will probably do several things:

1) Increase the deductible and decrease the cap on the medical plan. If we
lower this to an amount that the liability provider will still accept it
still means that there will still be a 56% increase in insurance costs with
the medical premium going up 193% representing 37% of the total insurance
costs. A higher deductible and lower limit means that in order for anyone to
collect from this policy they will need to have a larger loss, they will pay
more out of pocket if they do collect and the maximum amount they can
collect will be smaller.

2) We will need to consider increasing the charge to race organizers for
insurance to cover this increase. This increased charge will likely come
back to everyone in increased entry fees.

3) We are looking at a plan that will offer medical coverage directly to
members. This could be general medical insurance to cover all medical
losses (within the limits of the policy) or a plan that only covers losses
related bike riding. The premium for these policies would be charged
directly to the member. This would decrease the claims against our
liability associated medical plan. We may need to consider requiring that
riders either demonstrate personal medical coverage or purchase it through
an OBRA associated plan.

Those of you that have read this far are probably wondering "What can I do
about this?" There are two things:

1) Don't race (or do anything else) without health insurance. You do not
need to get this from your employer. You can buy it yourself. High
deductible insurance can be cheap. The plan we bought for my son costs
$34.00/month.

2) If you get hurt at a bike race don't make a claim against the OBRA
insurance. After all it is not OBRA's fault that you get hurt. Every
medical claim makes it more likely that OBRA will need to pay more for
insurance. If there are too many claims it is possible that OBRA will not
be able to buy medical insurance at any price and then we will not be able
to buy liability insurance.

If we can't get liability insurance we won't be able to have bike races.

Mike Murray

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com

Leibowitz, Flo

And, in the very long run....

3) You can lobby your Congressional representatives to create a sane national health care plan, like every other civilized (and bike racing) nation in the world. Maybe one day, small business and small user-friendly organizations like OBRA won't be footing the bill for this sort of thing.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Mike Murray
Sent: Wed 12/6/2006 10:29 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA INSURANCE COSTS

It looks like it is time again for my insurance rant. This is prompted by
finding out yesterday that OBRA will have a substantial increase in the cost
for insurance for 2007.

First, a little insurance primer. In order to hold bike races we need to
have liability insurance. This insurance protects people associated with
the event from costs associated with claims of negligence. If it was just
OBRA assets that were being protected it might be reasonable to not insure
this since OBRA assets are not large. The problem is that other entities
need to be protected. Race organizers, officials, volunteers, etc. need to
be protected so that they do not bear the costs of any claim individually.
More importantly, road use authorities and land owners will not give us
permission to use venues unless we can protect their assets.

In order to purchase liability insurance the liability insurance provider
requires that we purchase medical coverage. The principle is that it is
less likely that someone will bring a negligence claim if at least a portion
of their medical losses are covered. This idea is becoming less viable in
the current medical/legal climate but regardless liability insurance
providers require that we purchase medical and they really don't care much
what that costs us since we buy medical coverage from a different company.
It should be noted that this same principle applies to other business
owner's insurance, e.g. the grocery store that you go to has a medical
policy tacked on to their liability plan that will provide coverage to
people that slip on the floor, get sick from food purchased, etc. In
contrast to USAC, OBRA does not advertise the availability of medical
coverage to members just like Fred Meyers does not advertise medical
coverage as a benefit of being a customer. This is one of the reasons why
the insurance costs for OBRA are considerably lower than they are for USAC.

OBRA really doesn't need to purchase medical insurance for members other
than as required by liability insurance providers. It is very rare that an
injury at a bike race will be due to negligence on the part of anyone other
than the participants. Unfortunately injuries happen at bike races
frequently. This is part of the deal and it is the reason why everyone
needs to provide for their own health care coverage.

The problem is that many people do not carry personal health care coverage,
for many reasons. When these people injured in a fall they either pay out
of pocket or they claim against the OBRA coverage. In addition even insured
people often make claims since medical costs are so high that the amount not
covered by their insurance may be substantial. When these claims get made
the loss record for OBRA is worse and inevitably the insurance costs go up.

I should point out that OBRA to date has never had a liability loss. On the
medical side, however, the few claims that have been paid have far exceeded
the premium we paid for the last 3 years. In 2006 the cost of the medical
policy was 25% of the total cost for insurance. If we keep the same policy
limits and deductible that number will increase 369% for 2007 making the
cost of medical insurance 59% of total insurance costs. There would be a
101% increase in total insurance costs.

To address this we will probably do several things:

1) Increase the deductible and decrease the cap on the medical plan. If we
lower this to an amount that the liability provider will still accept it
still means that there will still be a 56% increase in insurance costs with
the medical premium going up 193% representing 37% of the total insurance
costs. A higher deductible and lower limit means that in order for anyone to
collect from this policy they will need to have a larger loss, they will pay
more out of pocket if they do collect and the maximum amount they can
collect will be smaller.

2) We will need to consider increasing the charge to race organizers for
insurance to cover this increase. This increased charge will likely come
back to everyone in increased entry fees.

3) We are looking at a plan that will offer medical coverage directly to
members. This could be general medical insurance to cover all medical
losses (within the limits of the policy) or a plan that only covers losses
related bike riding. The premium for these policies would be charged
directly to the member. This would decrease the claims against our
liability associated medical plan. We may need to consider requiring that
riders either demonstrate personal medical coverage or purchase it through
an OBRA associated plan.

Those of you that have read this far are probably wondering "What can I do
about this?" There are two things:

1) Don't race (or do anything else) without health insurance. You do not
need to get this from your employer. You can buy it yourself. High
deductible insurance can be cheap. The plan we bought for my son costs
$34.00/month.

2) If you get hurt at a bike race don't make a claim against the OBRA
insurance. After all it is not OBRA's fault that you get hurt. Every
medical claim makes it more likely that OBRA will need to pay more for
insurance. If there are too many claims it is possible that OBRA will not
be able to buy medical insurance at any price and then we will not be able
to buy liability insurance.

If we can't get liability insurance we won't be able to have bike races.

Mike Murray

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

It looks like it is time again for my insurance rant. This is prompted by
finding out yesterday that OBRA will have a substantial increase in the cost
for insurance for 2007.

First, a little insurance primer. In order to hold bike races we need to
have liability insurance. This insurance protects people associated with
the event from costs associated with claims of negligence. If it was just
OBRA assets that were being protected it might be reasonable to not insure
this since OBRA assets are not large. The problem is that other entities
need to be protected. Race organizers, officials, volunteers, etc. need to
be protected so that they do not bear the costs of any claim individually.
More importantly, road use authorities and land owners will not give us
permission to use venues unless we can protect their assets.

In order to purchase liability insurance the liability insurance provider
requires that we purchase medical coverage. The principle is that it is
less likely that someone will bring a negligence claim if at least a portion
of their medical losses are covered. This idea is becoming less viable in
the current medical/legal climate but regardless liability insurance
providers require that we purchase medical and they really don't care much
what that costs us since we buy medical coverage from a different company.
It should be noted that this same principle applies to other business
owner's insurance, e.g. the grocery store that you go to has a medical
policy tacked on to their liability plan that will provide coverage to
people that slip on the floor, get sick from food purchased, etc. In
contrast to USAC, OBRA does not advertise the availability of medical
coverage to members just like Fred Meyers does not advertise medical
coverage as a benefit of being a customer. This is one of the reasons why
the insurance costs for OBRA are considerably lower than they are for USAC.

OBRA really doesn't need to purchase medical insurance for members other
than as required by liability insurance providers. It is very rare that an
injury at a bike race will be due to negligence on the part of anyone other
than the participants. Unfortunately injuries happen at bike races
frequently. This is part of the deal and it is the reason why everyone
needs to provide for their own health care coverage.

The problem is that many people do not carry personal health care coverage,
for many reasons. When these people injured in a fall they either pay out
of pocket or they claim against the OBRA coverage. In addition even insured
people often make claims since medical costs are so high that the amount not
covered by their insurance may be substantial. When these claims get made
the loss record for OBRA is worse and inevitably the insurance costs go up.

I should point out that OBRA to date has never had a liability loss. On the
medical side, however, the few claims that have been paid have far exceeded
the premium we paid for the last 3 years. In 2006 the cost of the medical
policy was 25% of the total cost for insurance. If we keep the same policy
limits and deductible that number will increase 369% for 2007 making the
cost of medical insurance 59% of total insurance costs. There would be a
101% increase in total insurance costs.

To address this we will probably do several things:

1) Increase the deductible and decrease the cap on the medical plan. If we
lower this to an amount that the liability provider will still accept it
still means that there will still be a 56% increase in insurance costs with
the medical premium going up 193% representing 37% of the total insurance
costs. A higher deductible and lower limit means that in order for anyone to
collect from this policy they will need to have a larger loss, they will pay
more out of pocket if they do collect and the maximum amount they can
collect will be smaller.

2) We will need to consider increasing the charge to race organizers for
insurance to cover this increase. This increased charge will likely come
back to everyone in increased entry fees.

3) We are looking at a plan that will offer medical coverage directly to
members. This could be general medical insurance to cover all medical
losses (within the limits of the policy) or a plan that only covers losses
related bike riding. The premium for these policies would be charged
directly to the member. This would decrease the claims against our
liability associated medical plan. We may need to consider requiring that
riders either demonstrate personal medical coverage or purchase it through
an OBRA associated plan.

Those of you that have read this far are probably wondering "What can I do
about this?" There are two things:

1) Don't race (or do anything else) without health insurance. You do not
need to get this from your employer. You can buy it yourself. High
deductible insurance can be cheap. The plan we bought for my son costs
$34.00/month.

2) If you get hurt at a bike race don't make a claim against the OBRA
insurance. After all it is not OBRA's fault that you get hurt. Every
medical claim makes it more likely that OBRA will need to pay more for
insurance. If there are too many claims it is possible that OBRA will not
be able to buy medical insurance at any price and then we will not be able
to buy liability insurance.

If we can't get liability insurance we won't be able to have bike races.

Mike Murray