OBRA: OBRA Chat: Dogs off leash

Dogs off leash

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mmur-@teleport.com

2001-06-29

Mark Jenkins [mailto:mjen-@marylhurst.edu]wrote:

"My guess is that all parties, presumably OBRA and the city, negotiate the

extent of park closure for special events of this type, and that no

guarantees are made about the absolute integrity of the course."

Just to clarify on this point; OBRA does not negotiate with the city. This

is the responsibility of the individual race organizer. OBRA provides

equipment to put on races, liability insurance for race organizers,

promotional support for races and a structure for the racing. OBRA's sole

concern in the negotiation for conditions of use of a venue is that the race

can be run in a safe and fair fashion.

Mike Murray

Mark Jenkins

2001-06-28

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I'm not sure that the issue is dogs running 'amok' at all -- it has to do

with the assumed priority of various uses of the park and how the city

creates opportunities for events like bike races without shutting down other

uses entirely for the time of the event.

If it hadn't been a dog, it might have been a child or a pedestrian, or a

recreational cyclist -- children and pedestrians and cyclists are allowed in

the park, as far as I can tell, even on the course, during bicycle races,

and I'm not sure the issue is whether or not that activity is licit or

illicit.

My guess is that all parties, presumably OBRA and the city, negotiate the

extent of park closure for special events of this type, and that no

guarantees are made about the absolute integrity of the course. If such a

guarantee were made, it wouldn't be by the city. The city can't afford it,

OBRA can't afford it, and the situation we have is probably the best-case

compromise point that allows the event to proceed. I don't think individual

litigation will have the effect of making the courses safer -- it is far

more likely that everyone concerned will end up saying "why bother to do

this?"

Yes, the dog should've been leashed -- maybe you can make this about the

personal responsibility that person has for controlling their animal and

hold that person responsible for that event. This whole thread seems to be

an occasion for everyone to talk about who's ethical and responsible and

who's not. Or who's an idiot. Or who's a liberal. But that doesn't do

anything to mitigate the potential bad effects of a compromise between

organizers and venue that you, in order to race in that venue, have

implicitly agreed to.

People seem to think the compromise is still a good one, overall -- if they

didn't, the racing would stop, yes? How much safety and course marshalling

do you think that you're owed by virtue of whatever agreements are made? How

much priority should or does your agreement with the park grant you over

other users? Should the park be closed entirely for these events? Would

even be desirable?

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Content-Description: RE: [OBRA Chat] Dogs off leash

Message-ID: <0.700001901.847154495-951758591-993762720@topica.com>

From: "Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com>

Reply-To: george.-@pacificorp.com

To: rrr-@aol.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Dogs off leash

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:11:00 -0700

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The problem is when people's dogs run amok how do we deal with that. A

number of cyclists were injured by that owner. What are we to do, just

accept the risk. How do I know you have your dog under control, and for

that matter, since an animal is involved, how can you guaranty that you do.

Am I supposed to take the risk that you can control your dog and are we all

supposed to cheerfully accept the consequences if you fail. I bet the

person who caused the accident thought he had his dog under control.

Apparently, you have decided that your desires and your dog's take

precedence over everyone else's and that you are above the law in all

respects. You have an incredible amount of self-importance to go with your

lack of consideration for others. Not a particularly positive attitude for

people living in a crowded society. I suppose on the basis for you

reasoning, that I should be allowed to speed through you neighborhood in my

sports car because I have decided that I can control my automobile and avoid

hitting pedestrians and other vehicles.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: rrr-@aol.com [ mailto:rrr-@aol.com <mailto:rrr-@aol.com> ]

Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:58 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs off leash

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I find it amazing the reaction to dogs off leash. Have you ever thought why

we do it. It is for the simple pleasure, joy and excitement that it brings

to

the dog. The ability to run free. I see it as the same feeling I get from

riding down the street, instead of driving. Do I do this to angry motorist,

no? Do I let my dog off leash to anger other people, no? I do have a

responsibility to keep my dog under control though. But because a few dog

owners and bike owners act stupid, doesn't mean rest off us have to pay for

it. I will continue to let my dog off leash in a responsible manner, because

I love to see her eyes light up when I do. And I will continue to ride my

bike no matter how much motorist wish me off the road, because they find me

annoying. Was the guy an idiot, yes, but not all of us are.

============================================================

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on the planet. More than 1.5 million listings,

updated daily. Your car is waiting. AutoTrader.com

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<http://click.topica.com/caaacxRaVxiDpaVzo6Rf/AutoTrader>

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Tim Schauer

2001-06-28

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I wish we could put a "leash" on the "reply to all" button on this

Topica/OBRA list. Come on....give it and us a rest...do what your gonna do

and lets move on...

-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:11 PM

To: rrr-@aol.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Dogs off leash

============================================================

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on the planet. More than 1.5 million listings,

updated daily. Your car is waiting. AutoTrader.com

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The problem is when people's dogs run amok how do we deal with that. A

number of cyclists were injured by that owner. What are we to do, just

accept the risk. How do I know you have your dog under control, and for

that matter, since an animal is involved, how can you guaranty that you do.

Am I supposed to take the risk that you can control your dog and are we all

supposed to cheerfully accept the consequences if you fail. I bet the

person who caused the accident thought he had his dog under control.

Apparently, you have decided that your desires and your dog's take

precedence over everyone else's and that you are above the law in all

respects. You have an incredible amount of self-importance to go with your

lack of consideration for others. Not a particularly positive attitude for

people living in a crowded society. I suppose on the basis for you

reasoning, that I should be allowed to speed through you neighborhood in my

sports car because I have decided that I can control my automobile and avoid

hitting pedestrians and other vehicles.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: rrr-@aol.com [ mailto:rrr-@aol.com <mailto:rrr-@aol.com> ]

Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:58 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs off leash

============================================================

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+ a free knapsack + free shipping on all orders

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http://click.topica.com/caaachpaVxiDpaVzo6Ra/YvesRocher

<http://click.topica.com/caaachpaVxiDpaVzo6Ra/YvesRocher>

============================================================

I find it amazing the reaction to dogs off leash. Have you ever thought why

we do it. It is for the simple pleasure, joy and excitement that it brings

to

the dog. The ability to run free. I see it as the same feeling I get from

riding down the street, instead of driving. Do I do this to angry motorist,

no? Do I let my dog off leash to anger other people, no? I do have a

responsibility to keep my dog under control though. But because a few dog

owners and bike owners act stupid, doesn't mean rest off us have to pay for

it. I will continue to let my dog off leash in a responsible manner, because

I love to see her eyes light up when I do. And I will continue to ride my

bike no matter how much motorist wish me off the road, because they find me

annoying. Was the guy an idiot, yes, but not all of us are.

============================================================

Search the largest used car inventory

on the planet. More than 1.5 million listings,

updated daily. Your car is waiting. AutoTrader.com

http://click.topica.com/caaacxRaVxiDpaVzo6Rf/AutoTrader

<http://click.topica.com/caaacxRaVxiDpaVzo6Rf/AutoTrader>

============================================================

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

============================================================

Developing software is a grueling workout. Outfit yourself

with gear made for the long haul. Get tutorials, skills, and

code for open standards-based software at developerWorks.

http://click.topica.com/caaacwKaVxiDpaVHWR7g/developerWorks

<http://click.topica.com/caaacwKaVxiDpaVHWR7g/developerWorks>

============================================================

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<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =

charset=3Diso-8859-1">

<TITLE>RE: [OBRA Chat] Dogs off leash</TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>

<BODY>

<DIV>I wish=20

we could put a "leash" on the "reply to all" button on this Topica/OBRA =

list.=20

Come on....give it and us a rest...do what your gonna do and lets move=20

on...</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr>-----Original Message----- From: Schreck, George=20

[mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com] Sent: Thursday, June =

28, 2001=20

2:11 PM To: rrr-@aol.com; =

ob-@topica.com Subject: RE:=20

[OBRA Chat] Dogs off =

leash </DIV><PRE>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

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Search the largest used car inventory

on the planet. More than 1.5 million listings,

updated daily. Your car is waiting. AutoTrader.com

<A =

href=3D"http://click.topica.com/caaacxRaVxiDpaVHWR7b/AutoTrader">http://=

click.topica.com/caaacxRaVxiDpaVHWR7b/AutoTrader</A>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</PRE>

The problem is when people's dogs run amok how do =

we deal with=20

that. A number of cyclists were injured by that owner. =

What are we=20

to do, just accept the risk. How do I know you have your dog =

under=20

control, and for that matter, since an animal is involved, how can =

you=20

guaranty that you do. Am I supposed to take the risk that you =

can=20

control your dog and are we all supposed to cheerfully accept the =

consequences=20

if you fail. I bet the person who caused the accident thought =

he had his=20

dog under control. Apparently, you have decided that your =

desires and=20

your dog's take precedence over everyone else's and that you are =

above the law=20

in all respects. You have an incredible amount of =

self-importance to go=20

with your lack of consideration for others. Not a particularly =

positive=20

attitude for people living in a crowded society. I suppose on =

the basis=20

for you reasoning, that I should be allowed to speed through you =

neighborhood=20

in my sports car because I have decided that I can control my =

automobile and=20

avoid hitting pedestrians and other vehicles.

<FONT=20

=

size=3D2> &nb=

sp; &nb=

sp; =20

George C. Schreck <FONT=20

=

size=3D2> &nb=

sp; &nb=

sp; =20

Phone: (503) 813-7211 <FONT=20

=

size=3D2> &nb=

sp; &nb=

sp; =20

Fax: (503) 813-7190 

-----Original Message----- From:=20

rrr-@aol.com [<A=20

href=3D"mailto:rrr-@aol.com">mailto:rrr-@aol.com</A>] =

 <FONT=20

size=3D2>Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:58 PM To:=20

ob-@topica.com Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs =

off=20

leash 

<FONT=20

=

size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20

 SPECIAL OFFER! 10-piece natural beauty kit for =

only=20

$14.95. + a free knapsack + free shipping =

on all=20

orders Your Natural Beauty Source -=20

YvesRocherUSA.com <A=20

href=3D"http://click.topica.com/caaachpaVxiDpaVzo6Ra/YvesRocher"=20

=

target=3D_blank>http://click.topica.com/caaachpaVxiDpaVzo6Ra/YvesRocher<=

/A>=20

 <FONT=20

=

size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20



I find it amazing the reaction to dogs off leash. =

Have you=20

ever thought why we do it. It is for the =

simple=20

pleasure, joy and excitement that it brings to the=20

dog. The ability to run free. I see it as the same feeling I get from =

 riding down the street, instead of driving. =

Do I do=20

this to angry motorist, no? Do I let my dog =

off leash=20

to anger other people, no? I do have a responsibility=20

to keep my dog under control though. But because a few dog =

 <FONT=20

size=3D2>owners and bike owners act stupid, doesn't mean rest off us =

have to pay=20

for it. I will continue to let my dog off =

leash in a=20

responsible manner, because I love to see =

her eyes=20

light up when I do. And I will continue to ride my <FONT=20

size=3D2>bike no matter how much motorist wish me off the road, =

because they=20

find me annoying. Was the guy an idiot, =

yes, but not=20

all of us are. 

<FONT=20

=

size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20

 Search the largest used car inventory =

 <FONT=20

size=3D2>on the planet. More than 1.5 million listings, =

 <FONT=20

size=3D2>updated daily. Your car is waiting. AutoTrader.com =

 <FONT=20

size=3D2><A =

href=3D"http://click.topica.com/caaacxRaVxiDpaVzo6Rf/AutoTrader"=20

=

target=3D_blank>http://click.topica.com/caaacxRaVxiDpaVzo6Rf/AutoTrader<=

/A>=20

 <FONT=20

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To respond to the whole group send to =

ob-@topica.com.=20

 To respond to the list manager send to=20

ob-@teleport.com To unsubscribe send to=20

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Developing software is a grueling workout. Outfit yourself

with gear made for the long haul. Get tutorials, skills, and

code for open standards-based software at developerWorks.

<A =

href=3D"http://click.topica.com/caaacwKaVxiDpaVHWR7g/developerWorks">htt=

p://click.topica.com/caaacwKaVxiDpaVHWR7g/developerWorks</A>

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Schreck, George

2001-06-28

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand

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The problem is when people's dogs run amok how do we deal with that. A

number of cyclists were injured by that owner. What are we to do, just

accept the risk. How do I know you have your dog under control, and for

that matter, since an animal is involved, how can you guaranty that you do.

Am I supposed to take the risk that you can control your dog and are we all

supposed to cheerfully accept the consequences if you fail. I bet the

person who caused the accident thought he had his dog under control.

Apparently, you have decided that your desires and your dog's take

precedence over everyone else's and that you are above the law in all

respects. You have an incredible amount of self-importance to go with your

lack of consideration for others. Not a particularly positive attitude for

people living in a crowded society. I suppose on the basis for you

reasoning, that I should be allowed to speed through you neighborhood in my

sports car because I have decided that I can control my automobile and avoid

hitting pedestrians and other vehicles.

 George C. Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: rrr-@aol.com [mailto:rrr-@aol.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:58 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs off leash

============================================================

SPECIAL OFFER! 10-piece natural beauty kit for only $14.95.

+ a free knapsack + free shipping on all orders

Your Natural Beauty Source - YvesRocherUSA.com

http://click.topica.com/caaachpaVxiDpaVzo6Ra/YvesRocher

============================================================

I find it amazing the reaction to dogs off leash. Have you ever thought why

we do it. It is for the simple pleasure, joy and excitement that it brings

to

the dog. The ability to run free. I see it as the same feeling I get from

riding down the street, instead of driving. Do I do this to angry motorist,

no? Do I let my dog off leash to anger other people, no? I do have a

responsibility to keep my dog under control though. But because a few dog

owners and bike owners act stupid, doesn't mean rest off us have to pay for

it. I will continue to let my dog off leash in a responsible manner, because

I love to see her eyes light up when I do. And I will continue to ride my

bike no matter how much motorist wish me off the road, because they find me

annoying. Was the guy an idiot, yes, but not all of us are.

============================================================

Search the largest used car inventory

on the planet. More than 1.5 million listings,

updated daily. Your car is waiting. AutoTrader.com

http://click.topica.com/caaacxRaVxiDpaVzo6Rf/AutoTrader

============================================================

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

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<TITLE>RE: [OBRA Chat] Dogs off leash</TITLE>

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The problem is when people's dogs run amok how do we =

deal with that. A number of cyclists were injured by that =

owner. What are we to do, just accept the risk. How do I =

know you have your dog under control, and for that matter, since an =

animal is involved, how can you guaranty that you do. Am I =

supposed to take the risk that you can control your dog and are we all =

supposed to cheerfully accept the consequences if you fail. I bet =

the person who caused the accident thought he had his dog under =

control. Apparently, you have decided that your desires and your =

dog's take precedence over everyone else's and that you are above the =

law in all respects. You have an incredible amount of =

self-importance to go with your lack of consideration for others. Not a =

particularly positive attitude for people living in a crowded =

society. I suppose on the basis for you reasoning, that I should =

be allowed to speed through you neighborhood in my sports car because I =

have decided that I can control my automobile and avoid hitting =

pedestrians and other vehicles.

 &nb=

sp; &nb=

sp; George C. Schreck

 &nb=

sp; &nb=

sp; Phone: (503) 813-7211

 &nb=

sp; &nb=

sp; Fax: (503) 813-7190



 

-----Original Message-----

 From: rrr-@aol.com [<A =

HREF=3D"mailto:rrr-@aol.com">mailto:rrr-@aol.com</A>]

 Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:58 PM

 To: ob-@topica.com

 Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs off leash



 

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I find it amazing the reaction to dogs off leash. =

Have you ever thought why 

 we do it. It is for the simple pleasure, joy and =

excitement that it brings to 

 the dog. The ability to run free. I see it as the =

same feeling I get from 

 riding down the street, instead of driving. Do I do =

this to angry motorist, 

 no? Do I let my dog off leash to anger other people, =

no? I do have a 

 responsibility to keep my dog under control though. =

But because a few dog 

 owners and bike owners act stupid, doesn't mean rest =

off us have to pay for 

 it. I will continue to let my dog off leash in a =

responsible manner, because 

 I love to see her eyes light up when I do. And I =

will continue to ride my 

 bike no matter how much motorist wish me off the =

road, because they find me 

 annoying. Was the guy an idiot, yes, but not all of =

us are.



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rrr-@aol.com

2001-06-28

I find it amazing the reaction to dogs off leash. Have you ever thought why

we do it. It is for the simple pleasure, joy and excitement that it brings to

the dog. The ability to run free. I see it as the same feeling I get from

riding down the street, instead of driving. Do I do this to angry motorist,

no? Do I let my dog off leash to anger other people, no? I do have a

responsibility to keep my dog under control though. But because a few dog

owners and bike owners act stupid, doesn't mean rest off us have to pay for

it. I will continue to let my dog off leash in a responsible manner, because

I love to see her eyes light up when I do. And I will continue to ride my

bike no matter how much motorist wish me off the road, because they find me

annoying. Was the guy an idiot, yes, but not all of us are.

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