I had a self employed friend cyclist i use to ride with a lot. He didn't have insurance (well maybe high deductible catastrophic...) but he also had friends who were doctors. If he needed something checked out or done, even surgery once..., he simply paid them cash "under the table". Imagine that, shopping around, word of mouth, etc, finding the best 'mechanic', then just paying them cash. It was a good deal for all involved. Ahh a simple free market economy ! No paperwork, no middlemen, no hordes of admin people shuffling paper, just you, the doctor and cash. Oh the simplicity, why didn't they think of this sooner. Oh wait some geniuses (in every sense of the word), with names like Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, already did.
l j wrote: P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Mike
I don't have insurance and go to see you and get charged 500% of what the service is worth. I don't go to the doctor very often so even paying 500% is less than what my insurance premiums were. So you aren't subsidizing me Mike but the multimillion dollar salaries of the Docs who are CEO's of the insurance companies
If OBRA's insurance doesn't pay my bills if I crash what is it for? Um, other than part two of above?
lonnie
---------------------------------
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:44:47 -0800
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] insurance?
>
> Actually those of us who have insurance are subsidizing not only the people
> who have insurance and use medical care more than we do but also those
> people who do not have coverage since a large portion of them still get care
> but do not pay for it. The cost of providing the care for those who do not
> pay is carried by those who do, which is mostly the insurance companies.
>
> Currently my group collects on the order of 30% of what we bill. Imagine
> what the prices would have to be at the grocery store if 2/3 of the people
> in the check out line walked out without paying. Add to that the fact that
> there are billing costs in generating and sending a bill since services are
> never paid for at the time of service. If we were to get paid cash at the
> time of service, like most other businesses, we could charge 20% of what we
> currently charge and still make the same amount of money. This is something
> to think about the next time you get a bill for medical services. The
> sticker price generally represents about 5 times the actual market value of
> the service because of the reasons above.
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Evan MacKenzie
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 09:21 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] insurance?
>
>
> For the record, those of us who have insurance, either purchased directly or
> through our employers, ARE insuring everybody else. Those of us who have
> insurance but don't "use" every single penny we put into it (minus
> administration costs, which are high), are subsidizing those who do use the
> insurance that company provides. That's how the insurance company can afford
> to pay for all those people who really do incur high medical (or other)
> costs. So I, who am generally healthy and have insurance but have yet to
> find a doctor who can actually diagnose and treat my problems when I do have
> them, and as a result hardly ever go to a doctor, am subsidizing all those
> other people (who are insured by the same company) who go to the doctor all
> the time.
>
> I can already see myself digressing about the poor state of affairs
> regarding health care in this country so I will just shut up now.
>
> I once knew a guy who raced DH without health insurance. He worked at a shop
> in Salem for probably not more than minimum wage, with no benefits. He
> crashed hard at Willamette Pass, and woke up in the hospital in Eugene. 20+
> pins in his arm and hand. Many thousands of dollars in insurance bills.
> Until we have national health care, if you are going to do a high-risk
> sport, you need insurance, period.
>
> Anybody think about why Canada has national health care, and REQUIRES
> bicyclists to wear helmets? If you can't make this connection, well, think
> about it.
>
>
> Keep the rubber side down,
>
> Evan
>
>
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john m schmidt
portland oregon