gschreckchat@comcast.net

A separate league for old farts? How very British.

Thanks.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Alec Bentley"

> Hi George,
>
> In the UK you have to be 40 to join the League of Veteran Racing Cyclists
> (LVRC).
>
> Alec
>
> >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >To: "Alec Bentley" , obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 01:06:30 +0000
> >
> >Did you say it starts at 40?
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >George Schreck
> >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >(503) 502-0425
> >
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >From: "Alec Bentley"
> >
> > > Perhaps some of you who have been following or contributing to the
> >debate on
> > > if Master categories should commence at 35 or 40 may be interested to
> >know
> > > how it works in the UK and most of Europe.
> > >
> > > The British League of Veteran Racing Cyclists (www.lvrc.org if you are
> > > interested) has a category every 5-years commencing at 40. Therefore if
> >you
> > > are 40 to 44 you are a Category A, 45 to 49 you are a Category B all the
> >way
> > > up to 70 to 74 you are a Category G then over 75 is designated as
> >Category
> > > H.
> > >
> > > Each race promoter decides how many different races to promote depending
> >on
> > > budgets and the number of riders in each category who register.
> >Typically
> > > it is A&B?s (40 to 49) / C&D?s (50 to 59) / EFG&H?s. (60+)
> > >
> > > Regardless of how many separate races are promoted results are posted
> >for
> > > each 5-year category.
> > >
> > > This has been a very successful formula in the UK and Europe where there
> >are
> > > numerous races for Master age riders.
> > >
> > > A couple of other points about the UK system. Woman Masters, (Ladies in
> >the
> > > UK) can compete with Men Masters and are given a 10-year benefit. As an
> > > example 40 to 44 year old woman would compete with the 50 to 54 old men.
> > >
> > > ? The LVRC allows (encouraged, in fact) riders to compete in an older
> >age
> > > group than their calendar age indicates. This is deliberately designed
> >to
> > > help people get back into racing, and move up the groups as fitness
> >starts
> > > to return.?
> > >
> > > Alec Bentley
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Mike Murray"
> > > >Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
> > > >To:
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
> > > >
> > > >There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly
> >there
> > > >are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this
> >year
> > > >the age distribution of road members was:
> > > >
> > > ><20 169
> > > >20to24 133
> > > >25to29 264
> > > >30to34 398
> > > >35to39 466
> > > >40to44 371
> > > >45to49 266
> > > >50to54 148
> > > >55to59 74
> > > >60to64 34
> > > >65+ 24
> > > >
> > > >Here are the mean ages by road category:
> > > >
> > > >1 33
> > > >2 36
> > > >3 38
> > > >4 36
> > > >5 36
> > > >
> > > >Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
> > > >
> > > >Mike Murray
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > > >Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> > > >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> > > >To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
> > > >
> > > >Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This
> >is
> > > >awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
> > > >
> > > >Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
> > > >
> > > >Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message ----
> > > >From: Dave Campbell
> > > >To: obra
> > > >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> > > >Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
> > > >
> > > >VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> > > >Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
> > > >guess
> > > >is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
> > > >promoter
> > > >(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
> > > >
> > > >For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
> >triathlon,
> > > >I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually
> >race
> > > >as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would
> > > >assume
> > > >there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE
> >ENOUGH
> > > >like minded 35-39s like me?
> > > >
> > > >Anyone?
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >DC
> > > >Dave Campbell
> > > >adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> > > >EarthLink Revolves Around You.
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes
> >has
> > > it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
> > >
>
>
>
> >From: "Alec Bentley"
> >To: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 01:01:55 +0000
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>

Micros8391@aol.com

I have stayed out of this discussion so far since at age 46 I can pretty much
qualify for any Masters race (except the Scott Goldstein Cat 3 and lower
Masters only races). I will offer a little input. I do not much like the two
categories within a race setup, like at Cascade with Masters 35-44 and 45+ racing
in the same peleton. It makes for some unusual and confusing tactics, and often
negative racing. A better idea is to give a prize for the top older,
out-of-age-category riders. For example in a Senior 1/2 race, maybe a prize for the
top rider (or top 3 riders) over 35. In a masters 35+, a prize for the top rider
45+ and 55+. Of course if there are enough masters racers for a completely
separate category, that is even better, but I do not see it happening too much
around here.

Mike

Luciano bailey

I think that this mirrors OBRA's combined fiields scored seperately scenario
which I believe was the in a reply I sent out earlier on. Of all the
equitable possibilities this offers the best age graded results, while
stilling allowing a racer to chose the level of self sacrifice should he or
she decide to race a non masters categorie.

>From: Rick C Johnson
>Reply-To: RCJohnson1@attglobal.net
>To: Gordon Cumming
>CC: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 09:52:17 -0800
>
>Humm, on my visits to England I noticed that the people there were
>typical of the other human specimens I have encountered in my visits to
>places closer to home such as California, Nevada, Idaho and Washington.
>Same configuration of appendages and sensory organs, exhibiting the
>normal range of humanoid biological functions and displaying the
>customary differences in sexual behavior. Further they appeared also to
>be subject to the same laws of aging and I saw that bicycles were ridden
>in exactly the same manner as bicycles found elsewhere.
>
>My conclusion would then be that considering how the English conduct
>their bicycle racing is entirely relevant in the context of the current
>discussion.
>
>Traditional English food however is entirely a different matter...
>
>Rick
>
>Gordon Cumming wrote:
>
> >Do we live near England? How about see what California, Nevada, Idaho,
>and Washington do. They may be a bit more relevant than jolly old England
>or Europe for that matter.
> >
> >Gordon
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> >From: "Alec Bentley"
> >
> >
> >>Hi George,
> >>
> >>In the UK you have to be 40 to join the League of Veteran Racing
>Cyclists
> >>(LVRC).
> >>
> >>Alec
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >>>To: "Alec Bentley" , obra@list.obra.org
> >>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >>>Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 01:06:30 +0000
> >>>
> >>>Did you say it starts at 40?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>
> >>>George Schreck
> >>>gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >>>(503) 502-0425
> >>>
> >>>-------------- Original message --------------
> >>>From: "Alec Bentley"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Perhaps some of you who have been following or contributing to the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>debate on
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>if Master categories should commence at 35 or 40 may be interested to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>know
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>how it works in the UK and most of Europe.
> >>>>
> >>>>The British League of Veteran Racing Cyclists (www.lvrc.org if you are
> >>>>interested) has a category every 5-years commencing at 40. Therefore
>if
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>you
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>are 40 to 44 you are a Category A, 45 to 49 you are a Category B all
>the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>way
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>up to 70 to 74 you are a Category G then over 75 is designated as
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Category
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>H.
> >>>>
> >>>>Each race promoter decides how many different races to promote
>depending
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>on
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>budgets and the number of riders in each category who register.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Typically
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>it is A&B?s (40 to 49) / C&D?s (50 to 59) / EFG&H?s. (60+)
> >>>>
> >>>>Regardless of how many separate races are promoted results are posted
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>each 5-year category.
> >>>>
> >>>>This has been a very successful formula in the UK and Europe where
>there
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>are
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>numerous races for Master age riders.
> >>>>
> >>>>A couple of other points about the UK system. Woman Masters, (Ladies
>in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>UK) can compete with Men Masters and are given a 10-year benefit. As
>an
> >>>>example 40 to 44 year old woman would compete with the 50 to 54 old
>men.
> >>>>
> >>>>? The LVRC allows (encouraged, in fact) riders to compete in an older
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>age
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>group than their calendar age indicates. This is deliberately designed
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>help people get back into racing, and move up the groups as fitness
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>starts
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>to return.?
> >>>>
> >>>>Alec Bentley
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>From: "Mike Murray"
> >>>>>Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
> >>>>>To:
> >>>>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >>>>>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
> >>>>>
> >>>>>There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>there
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>year
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>the age distribution of road members was:
> >>>>>
> >>>>><20 169
> >>>>>20to24 133
> >>>>>25to29 264
> >>>>>30to34 398
> >>>>>35to39 466
> >>>>>40to44 371
> >>>>>45to49 266
> >>>>>50to54 148
> >>>>>55to59 74
> >>>>>60to64 34
> >>>>>65+ 24
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Here are the mean ages by road category:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>1 33
> >>>>>2 36
> >>>>>3 38
> >>>>>4 36
> >>>>>5 36
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mike Murray
> >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
>On
> >>>>>Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> >>>>>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> >>>>>To: obra@list.obra.org
> >>>>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5.
>This
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>----- Original Message ----
> >>>>>From: Dave Campbell
> >>>>>To: obra
> >>>>>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> >>>>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> >>>>>Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
> >>>>>guess
> >>>>>is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
> >>>>>promoter
> >>>>>(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>triathlon,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can
>actually
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>race
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would
> >>>>>assume
> >>>>>there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>ENOUGH
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>like minded 35-39s like me?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Anyone?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Thanks,
> >>>>>DC
> >>>>>Dave Campbell
> >>>>>adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> >>>>>EarthLink Revolves Around You.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>OBRA mailing list
> >>>>>obra@list.obra.org
> >>>>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >>>>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>__________________________________________________
> >>>>>Do You Yahoo!?
> >>>>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >>>>>http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>OBRA mailing list
> >>>>>obra@list.obra.org
> >>>>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >>>>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>_________________________________________________________________
> >>>>From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden
>Globes
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>has
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: "Alec Bentley"
> >>>To: obra@list.obra.org
> >>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >>>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 01:01:55 +0000
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>OBRA mailing list
> >>>obra@list.obra.org
> >>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
> >>http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Subject:
> > Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > From:
> > "Alec Bentley"
> > Date:
> > Thu, 4 Jan 2007 02:22:46 +0000
> > To:
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net, obra@list.obra.org
> >
> > To:
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net, obra@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rick C Johnson

Humm, on my visits to England I noticed that the people there were
typical of the other human specimens I have encountered in my visits to
places closer to home such as California, Nevada, Idaho and Washington.
Same configuration of appendages and sensory organs, exhibiting the
normal range of humanoid biological functions and displaying the
customary differences in sexual behavior. Further they appeared also to
be subject to the same laws of aging and I saw that bicycles were ridden
in exactly the same manner as bicycles found elsewhere.

My conclusion would then be that considering how the English conduct
their bicycle racing is entirely relevant in the context of the current
discussion.

Traditional English food however is entirely a different matter...

Rick

Gordon Cumming wrote:

>Do we live near England? How about see what California, Nevada, Idaho, and Washington do. They may be a bit more relevant than jolly old England or Europe for that matter.
>
>Gordon
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>From: "Alec Bentley"
>
>
>>Hi George,
>>
>>In the UK you have to be 40 to join the League of Veteran Racing Cyclists
>>(LVRC).
>>
>>Alec
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>>>To: "Alec Bentley" , obra@list.obra.org
>>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>>>Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 01:06:30 +0000
>>>
>>>Did you say it starts at 40?
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>George Schreck
>>>gschreckchat@comcast.net
>>>(503) 502-0425
>>>
>>>-------------- Original message --------------
>>>From: "Alec Bentley"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Perhaps some of you who have been following or contributing to the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>debate on
>>>
>>>
>>>>if Master categories should commence at 35 or 40 may be interested to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>know
>>>
>>>
>>>>how it works in the UK and most of Europe.
>>>>
>>>>The British League of Veteran Racing Cyclists (www.lvrc.org if you are
>>>>interested) has a category every 5-years commencing at 40. Therefore if
>>>>
>>>>
>>>you
>>>
>>>
>>>>are 40 to 44 you are a Category A, 45 to 49 you are a Category B all the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>way
>>>
>>>
>>>>up to 70 to 74 you are a Category G then over 75 is designated as
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Category
>>>
>>>
>>>>H.
>>>>
>>>>Each race promoter decides how many different races to promote depending
>>>>
>>>>
>>>on
>>>
>>>
>>>>budgets and the number of riders in each category who register.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Typically
>>>
>>>
>>>>it is A&B’s (40 to 49) / C&D’s (50 to 59) / EFG&H’s. (60+)
>>>>
>>>>Regardless of how many separate races are promoted results are posted
>>>>
>>>>
>>>for
>>>
>>>
>>>>each 5-year category.
>>>>
>>>>This has been a very successful formula in the UK and Europe where there
>>>>
>>>>
>>>are
>>>
>>>
>>>>numerous races for Master age riders.
>>>>
>>>>A couple of other points about the UK system. Woman Masters, (Ladies in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>UK) can compete with Men Masters and are given a 10-year benefit. As an
>>>>example 40 to 44 year old woman would compete with the 50 to 54 old men.
>>>>
>>>>“ The LVRC allows (encouraged, in fact) riders to compete in an older
>>>>
>>>>
>>>age
>>>
>>>
>>>>group than their calendar age indicates. This is deliberately designed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>
>>>>help people get back into racing, and move up the groups as fitness
>>>>
>>>>
>>>starts
>>>
>>>
>>>>to return.”
>>>>
>>>>Alec Bentley
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: "Mike Murray"
>>>>>Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
>>>>>To:
>>>>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>>>>>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
>>>>>
>>>>>There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>there
>>>
>>>
>>>>>are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>year
>>>
>>>
>>>>>the age distribution of road members was:
>>>>>
>>>>><20 169
>>>>>20to24 133
>>>>>25to29 264
>>>>>30to34 398
>>>>>35to39 466
>>>>>40to44 371
>>>>>45to49 266
>>>>>50to54 148
>>>>>55to59 74
>>>>>60to64 34
>>>>>65+ 24
>>>>>
>>>>>Here are the mean ages by road category:
>>>>>
>>>>>1 33
>>>>>2 36
>>>>>3 38
>>>>>4 36
>>>>>5 36
>>>>>
>>>>>Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike Murray
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>>>>Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
>>>>>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
>>>>>To: obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
>>>>>
>>>>>Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>is
>>>
>>>
>>>>>awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
>>>>>
>>>>>Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----
>>>>>From: Dave Campbell
>>>>>To: obra
>>>>>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
>>>>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
>>>>>
>>>>>VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
>>>>>Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
>>>>>guess
>>>>>is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
>>>>>promoter
>>>>>(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
>>>>>
>>>>>For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>triathlon,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>race
>>>
>>>
>>>>>as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would
>>>>>assume
>>>>>there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>ENOUGH
>>>
>>>
>>>>>like minded 35-39s like me?
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>DC
>>>>>Dave Campbell
>>>>>adcampbell46@earthlink.net
>>>>>EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>OBRA mailing list
>>>>>obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>>>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>>>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>OBRA mailing list
>>>>>obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>has
>>>
>>>
>>>>it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "Alec Bentley"
>>>To: obra@list.obra.org
>>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>>>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 01:01:55 +0000
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>OBRA mailing list
>>>obra@list.obra.org
>>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
>>http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> From:
> "Alec Bentley"
> Date:
> Thu, 4 Jan 2007 02:22:46 +0000
> To:
> gschreckchat@comcast.net, obra@list.obra.org
>
> To:
> gschreckchat@comcast.net, obra@list.obra.org
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Candi Murray

It is doable. It would be better not to post them by age but just add age to
the results page.
We added an age column to the ccx results just so people could see who was
old and who was not.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Malcolm, Gary
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:15 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Personally I think Alec's comments have been the most relevant and inclusive
so far.

The idea of posting results separately by age division with a single mass
start is probably the best middle ground in this discussion given rider
numbers and race logistics.

Besides... the UK is a very pleasant place.

Gary Malcolm

-----Original Message-----
From: tioflaco@comcast.net [mailto:tioflaco@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:10 AM
To: Alec Bentley; gschreckchat@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Do we live near England? How about see what California, Nevada, Idaho, and
Washington do. They may be a bit more relevant than jolly old England or
Europe for that matter.

Gordon

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Alec Bentley"
> Hi George,
>
> In the UK you have to be 40 to join the League of Veteran Racing Cyclists
> (LVRC).
>
> Alec
>
> >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >To: "Alec Bentley" , obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 01:06:30 +0000
> >
> >Did you say it starts at 40?
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >George Schreck
> >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >(503) 502-0425
> >
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >From: "Alec Bentley"
> >
> > > Perhaps some of you who have been following or contributing to the
> >debate on
> > > if Master categories should commence at 35 or 40 may be interested to
> >know
> > > how it works in the UK and most of Europe.
> > >
> > > The British League of Veteran Racing Cyclists (www.lvrc.org if you are
> > > interested) has a category every 5-years commencing at 40. Therefore
if
> >you
> > > are 40 to 44 you are a Category A, 45 to 49 you are a Category B all
the
> >way
> > > up to 70 to 74 you are a Category G then over 75 is designated as
> >Category
> > > H.
> > >
> > > Each race promoter decides how many different races to promote
depending
> >on
> > > budgets and the number of riders in each category who register.
> >Typically
> > > it is A&B's (40 to 49) / C&D's (50 to 59) / EFG&H's. (60+)
> > >
> > > Regardless of how many separate races are promoted results are posted
> >for
> > > each 5-year category.
> > >
> > > This has been a very successful formula in the UK and Europe where
there
> >are
> > > numerous races for Master age riders.
> > >
> > > A couple of other points about the UK system. Woman Masters, (Ladies
in
> >the
> > > UK) can compete with Men Masters and are given a 10-year benefit. As
an
> > > example 40 to 44 year old woman would compete with the 50 to 54 old
men.
> > >
> > > " The LVRC allows (encouraged, in fact) riders to compete in an older
> >age
> > > group than their calendar age indicates. This is deliberately designed

> >to
> > > help people get back into racing, and move up the groups as fitness
> >starts
> > > to return."
> > >
> > > Alec Bentley
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Mike Murray"
> > > >Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
> > > >To:
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
> > > >
> > > >There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly
> >there
> > > >are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this
> >year
> > > >the age distribution of road members was:
> > > >
> > > ><20 169
> > > >20to24 133
> > > >25to29 264
> > > >30to34 398
> > > >35to39 466
> > > >40to44 371
> > > >45to49 266
> > > >50to54 148
> > > >55to59 74
> > > >60to64 34
> > > >65+ 24
> > > >
> > > >Here are the mean ages by road category:
> > > >
> > > >1 33
> > > >2 36
> > > >3 38
> > > >4 36
> > > >5 36
> > > >
> > > >Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
> > > >
> > > >Mike Murray
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On
> > > >Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> > > >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> > > >To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
> > > >
> > > >Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5.
This
> >is
> > > >awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
> > > >
> > > >Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
> > > >
> > > >Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message ----
> > > >From: Dave Campbell
> > > >To: obra
> > > >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> > > >Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
> > > >
> > > >VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> > > >Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
> > > >guess
> > > >is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
> > > >promoter
> > > >(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
> > > >
> > > >For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
> >triathlon,
> > > >I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can
actually
> >race
> > > >as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would
> > > >assume
> > > >there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE
> >ENOUGH
> > > >like minded 35-39s like me?
> > > >
> > > >Anyone?
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >DC
> > > >Dave Campbell
> > > >adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> > > >EarthLink Revolves Around You.
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden
Globes
> >has
> > > it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
> > >
>
>
>
> >From: "Alec Bentley"
> >To: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 01:01:55 +0000
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Malcolm, Gary

Personally I think Alec's comments have been the most relevant and inclusive
so far.

The idea of posting results separately by age division with a single mass
start is probably the best middle ground in this discussion given rider
numbers and race logistics.

Besides... the UK is a very pleasant place.

Gary Malcolm

-----Original Message-----
From: tioflaco@comcast.net [mailto:tioflaco@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:10 AM
To: Alec Bentley; gschreckchat@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Do we live near England? How about see what California, Nevada, Idaho, and
Washington do. They may be a bit more relevant than jolly old England or
Europe for that matter.

Gordon

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Alec Bentley"
> Hi George,
>
> In the UK you have to be 40 to join the League of Veteran Racing Cyclists
> (LVRC).
>
> Alec
>
> >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >To: "Alec Bentley" , obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 01:06:30 +0000
> >
> >Did you say it starts at 40?
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >George Schreck
> >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >(503) 502-0425
> >
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >From: "Alec Bentley"
> >
> > > Perhaps some of you who have been following or contributing to the
> >debate on
> > > if Master categories should commence at 35 or 40 may be interested to
> >know
> > > how it works in the UK and most of Europe.
> > >
> > > The British League of Veteran Racing Cyclists (www.lvrc.org if you are
> > > interested) has a category every 5-years commencing at 40. Therefore
if
> >you
> > > are 40 to 44 you are a Category A, 45 to 49 you are a Category B all
the
> >way
> > > up to 70 to 74 you are a Category G then over 75 is designated as
> >Category
> > > H.
> > >
> > > Each race promoter decides how many different races to promote
depending
> >on
> > > budgets and the number of riders in each category who register.
> >Typically
> > > it is A&B's (40 to 49) / C&D's (50 to 59) / EFG&H's. (60+)
> > >
> > > Regardless of how many separate races are promoted results are posted
> >for
> > > each 5-year category.
> > >
> > > This has been a very successful formula in the UK and Europe where
there
> >are
> > > numerous races for Master age riders.
> > >
> > > A couple of other points about the UK system. Woman Masters, (Ladies
in
> >the
> > > UK) can compete with Men Masters and are given a 10-year benefit. As
an
> > > example 40 to 44 year old woman would compete with the 50 to 54 old
men.
> > >
> > > " The LVRC allows (encouraged, in fact) riders to compete in an older
> >age
> > > group than their calendar age indicates. This is deliberately designed

> >to
> > > help people get back into racing, and move up the groups as fitness
> >starts
> > > to return."
> > >
> > > Alec Bentley
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Mike Murray"
> > > >Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
> > > >To:
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
> > > >
> > > >There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly
> >there
> > > >are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this
> >year
> > > >the age distribution of road members was:
> > > >
> > > ><20 169
> > > >20to24 133
> > > >25to29 264
> > > >30to34 398
> > > >35to39 466
> > > >40to44 371
> > > >45to49 266
> > > >50to54 148
> > > >55to59 74
> > > >60to64 34
> > > >65+ 24
> > > >
> > > >Here are the mean ages by road category:
> > > >
> > > >1 33
> > > >2 36
> > > >3 38
> > > >4 36
> > > >5 36
> > > >
> > > >Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
> > > >
> > > >Mike Murray
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On
> > > >Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> > > >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> > > >To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
> > > >
> > > >Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5.
This
> >is
> > > >awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
> > > >
> > > >Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
> > > >
> > > >Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message ----
> > > >From: Dave Campbell
> > > >To: obra
> > > >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> > > >Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
> > > >
> > > >VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> > > >Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
> > > >guess
> > > >is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
> > > >promoter
> > > >(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
> > > >
> > > >For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
> >triathlon,
> > > >I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can
actually
> >race
> > > >as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would
> > > >assume
> > > >there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE
> >ENOUGH
> > > >like minded 35-39s like me?
> > > >
> > > >Anyone?
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >DC
> > > >Dave Campbell
> > > >adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> > > >EarthLink Revolves Around You.
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden
Globes
> >has
> > > it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
> > >
>
>
>
> >From: "Alec Bentley"
> >To: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 01:01:55 +0000
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>

Gordon Cumming

Do we live near England? How about see what California, Nevada, Idaho, and Washington do. They may be a bit more relevant than jolly old England or Europe for that matter.

Gordon

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Alec Bentley"
> Hi George,
>
> In the UK you have to be 40 to join the League of Veteran Racing Cyclists
> (LVRC).
>
> Alec
>
> >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >To: "Alec Bentley" , obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 01:06:30 +0000
> >
> >Did you say it starts at 40?
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >George Schreck
> >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >(503) 502-0425
> >
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >From: "Alec Bentley"
> >
> > > Perhaps some of you who have been following or contributing to the
> >debate on
> > > if Master categories should commence at 35 or 40 may be interested to
> >know
> > > how it works in the UK and most of Europe.
> > >
> > > The British League of Veteran Racing Cyclists (www.lvrc.org if you are
> > > interested) has a category every 5-years commencing at 40. Therefore if
> >you
> > > are 40 to 44 you are a Category A, 45 to 49 you are a Category B all the
> >way
> > > up to 70 to 74 you are a Category G then over 75 is designated as
> >Category
> > > H.
> > >
> > > Each race promoter decides how many different races to promote depending
> >on
> > > budgets and the number of riders in each category who register.
> >Typically
> > > it is A&B?s (40 to 49) / C&D?s (50 to 59) / EFG&H?s. (60+)
> > >
> > > Regardless of how many separate races are promoted results are posted
> >for
> > > each 5-year category.
> > >
> > > This has been a very successful formula in the UK and Europe where there
> >are
> > > numerous races for Master age riders.
> > >
> > > A couple of other points about the UK system. Woman Masters, (Ladies in
> >the
> > > UK) can compete with Men Masters and are given a 10-year benefit. As an
> > > example 40 to 44 year old woman would compete with the 50 to 54 old men.
> > >
> > > ? The LVRC allows (encouraged, in fact) riders to compete in an older
> >age
> > > group than their calendar age indicates. This is deliberately designed
> >to
> > > help people get back into racing, and move up the groups as fitness
> >starts
> > > to return.?
> > >
> > > Alec Bentley
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Mike Murray"
> > > >Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
> > > >To:
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
> > > >
> > > >There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly
> >there
> > > >are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this
> >year
> > > >the age distribution of road members was:
> > > >
> > > ><20 169
> > > >20to24 133
> > > >25to29 264
> > > >30to34 398
> > > >35to39 466
> > > >40to44 371
> > > >45to49 266
> > > >50to54 148
> > > >55to59 74
> > > >60to64 34
> > > >65+ 24
> > > >
> > > >Here are the mean ages by road category:
> > > >
> > > >1 33
> > > >2 36
> > > >3 38
> > > >4 36
> > > >5 36
> > > >
> > > >Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
> > > >
> > > >Mike Murray
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > > >Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> > > >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> > > >To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
> > > >
> > > >Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This
> >is
> > > >awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
> > > >
> > > >Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
> > > >
> > > >Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message ----
> > > >From: Dave Campbell
> > > >To: obra
> > > >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> > > >Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
> > > >
> > > >VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> > > >Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
> > > >guess
> > > >is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
> > > >promoter
> > > >(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
> > > >
> > > >For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
> >triathlon,
> > > >I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually
> >race
> > > >as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would
> > > >assume
> > > >there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE
> >ENOUGH
> > > >like minded 35-39s like me?
> > > >
> > > >Anyone?
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >DC
> > > >Dave Campbell
> > > >adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> > > >EarthLink Revolves Around You.
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes
> >has
> > > it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
> > >
>
>
>
> >From: "Alec Bentley"
> >To: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 01:01:55 +0000
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>

Edward Kendrick Sr

I thought this debate was over.

Anyway, the underlying issue and reason for the "passion," in my humble opinion, is the generation gap. Now we get told to quiet ourselves, but in fairness, the American Gen-Xers have involuntarily had more wear & tear put upon them than the Boomers or Next-Generation.

How many of us have not had adequate health care available, yet we are contributing financially to both our parents and our adult children? This is a factor in the lack of 35-40 yr old racers. When there is a race offered with a 35+ 4/5 category, or similar, I am going to jump at it.

Thank You,
Ed

PS: I believe UK has national health care and folks don't work 70 hrs per wk.

----- Original Message ----
From: Alec Bentley
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 7:01:34 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Perhaps some of you who have been following or contributing to the debate on
if Master categories should commence at 35 or 40 may be interested to know
how it works in the UK and most of Europe.

The British League of Veteran Racing Cyclists (www.lvrc.org if you are
interested) has a category every 5-years commencing at 40. Therefore if you
are 40 to 44 you are a Category A, 45 to 49 you are a Category B all the way
up to 70 to 74 you are a Category G then over 75 is designated as Category
H.

Each race promoter decides how many different races to promote depending on
budgets and the number of riders in each category who register. Typically
it is A&B’s (40 to 49) / C&D’s (50 to 59) / EFG&H’s. (60+)

Regardless of how many separate races are promoted results are posted for
each 5-year category.

This has been a very successful formula in the UK and Europe where there are
numerous races for Master age riders.

A couple of other points about the UK system. Woman Masters, (Ladies in the
UK) can compete with Men Masters and are given a 10-year benefit. As an
example 40 to 44 year old woman would compete with the 50 to 54 old men.

“ The LVRC allows (encouraged, in fact) riders to compete in an older age
group than their calendar age indicates. This is deliberately designed to
help people get back into racing, and move up the groups as fitness starts
to return.”

Alec Bentley

>From: "Mike Murray"
>Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
>To:
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
>
>There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
>are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
>the age distribution of road members was:
>
><20 169
>20to24 133
>25to29 264
>30to34 398
>35to39 466
>40to44 371
>45to49 266
>50to54 148
>55to59 74
>60to64 34
>65+ 24
>
>Here are the mean ages by road category:
>
>1 33
>2 36
>3 38
>4 36
>5 36
>
>Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
>
>Mike Murray
>-----Original Message-----
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
>Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
>
>Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
>awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
>
>Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
>
>Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Dave Campbell
>To: obra
>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
>Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
>Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
>
>VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
>Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
>guess
>is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
>promoter
>(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
>
>For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
>I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
>as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would
>assume
>there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
>like minded 35-39s like me?
>
>Anyone?
>
>Thanks,
>DC
>Dave Campbell
>adcampbell46@earthlink.net
>EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Alec Bentley

Hi George,

In the UK you have to be 40 to join the League of Veteran Racing Cyclists
(LVRC).

Alec

>From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>To: "Alec Bentley" , obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 01:06:30 +0000
>
>Did you say it starts at 40?
>
>
>--
>
>George Schreck
>gschreckchat@comcast.net
>(503) 502-0425
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: "Alec Bentley"
>
> > Perhaps some of you who have been following or contributing to the
>debate on
> > if Master categories should commence at 35 or 40 may be interested to
>know
> > how it works in the UK and most of Europe.
> >
> > The British League of Veteran Racing Cyclists (www.lvrc.org if you are
> > interested) has a category every 5-years commencing at 40. Therefore if
>you
> > are 40 to 44 you are a Category A, 45 to 49 you are a Category B all the
>way
> > up to 70 to 74 you are a Category G then over 75 is designated as
>Category
> > H.
> >
> > Each race promoter decides how many different races to promote depending
>on
> > budgets and the number of riders in each category who register.
>Typically
> > it is A&B?s (40 to 49) / C&D?s (50 to 59) / EFG&H?s. (60+)
> >
> > Regardless of how many separate races are promoted results are posted
>for
> > each 5-year category.
> >
> > This has been a very successful formula in the UK and Europe where there
>are
> > numerous races for Master age riders.
> >
> > A couple of other points about the UK system. Woman Masters, (Ladies in
>the
> > UK) can compete with Men Masters and are given a 10-year benefit. As an
> > example 40 to 44 year old woman would compete with the 50 to 54 old men.
> >
> > ? The LVRC allows (encouraged, in fact) riders to compete in an older
>age
> > group than their calendar age indicates. This is deliberately designed
>to
> > help people get back into racing, and move up the groups as fitness
>starts
> > to return.?
> >
> > Alec Bentley
> >
> >
> > >From: "Mike Murray"
> > >Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
> > >To:
> > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
> > >
> > >There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly
>there
> > >are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this
>year
> > >the age distribution of road members was:
> > >
> > ><20 169
> > >20to24 133
> > >25to29 264
> > >30to34 398
> > >35to39 466
> > >40to44 371
> > >45to49 266
> > >50to54 148
> > >55to59 74
> > >60to64 34
> > >65+ 24
> > >
> > >Here are the mean ages by road category:
> > >
> > >1 33
> > >2 36
> > >3 38
> > >4 36
> > >5 36
> > >
> > >Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
> > >
> > >Mike Murray
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > >Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> > >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> > >To: obra@list.obra.org
> > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > >
> > >
> > >Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
> > >
> > >Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This
>is
> > >awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
> > >
> > >Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
> > >
> > >Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message ----
> > >From: Dave Campbell
> > >To: obra
> > >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> > >Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> > >
> > >
> > >Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
> > >
> > >VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> > >Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
> > >guess
> > >is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
> > >promoter
> > >(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
> > >
> > >For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
>triathlon,
> > >I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually
>race
> > >as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would
> > >assume
> > >there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE
>ENOUGH
> > >like minded 35-39s like me?
> > >
> > >Anyone?
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >DC
> > >Dave Campbell
> > >adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> > >EarthLink Revolves Around You.
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >OBRA mailing list
> > >obra@list.obra.org
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >OBRA mailing list
> > >obra@list.obra.org
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes
>has
> > it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
> >

>From: "Alec Bentley"
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 01:01:55 +0000
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/

gschreckchat@comcast.net

Did you say it starts at 40?

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Alec Bentley"

> Perhaps some of you who have been following or contributing to the debate on
> if Master categories should commence at 35 or 40 may be interested to know
> how it works in the UK and most of Europe.
>
> The British League of Veteran Racing Cyclists (www.lvrc.org if you are
> interested) has a category every 5-years commencing at 40. Therefore if you
> are 40 to 44 you are a Category A, 45 to 49 you are a Category B all the way
> up to 70 to 74 you are a Category G then over 75 is designated as Category
> H.
>
> Each race promoter decides how many different races to promote depending on
> budgets and the number of riders in each category who register. Typically
> it is A&B?s (40 to 49) / C&D?s (50 to 59) / EFG&H?s. (60+)
>
> Regardless of how many separate races are promoted results are posted for
> each 5-year category.
>
> This has been a very successful formula in the UK and Europe where there are
> numerous races for Master age riders.
>
> A couple of other points about the UK system. Woman Masters, (Ladies in the
> UK) can compete with Men Masters and are given a 10-year benefit. As an
> example 40 to 44 year old woman would compete with the 50 to 54 old men.
>
> ? The LVRC allows (encouraged, in fact) riders to compete in an older age
> group than their calendar age indicates. This is deliberately designed to
> help people get back into racing, and move up the groups as fitness starts
> to return.?
>
> Alec Bentley
>
>
> >From: "Mike Murray"
> >Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
> >
> >There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
> >are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
> >the age distribution of road members was:
> >
> ><20 169
> >20to24 133
> >25to29 264
> >30to34 398
> >35to39 466
> >40to44 371
> >45to49 266
> >50to54 148
> >55to59 74
> >60to64 34
> >65+ 24
> >
> >Here are the mean ages by road category:
> >
> >1 33
> >2 36
> >3 38
> >4 36
> >5 36
> >
> >Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
> >
> >Mike Murray
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> >Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> >To: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >
> >
> >Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
> >
> >Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
> >awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
> >
> >Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
> >
> >Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message ----
> >From: Dave Campbell
> >To: obra
> >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> >Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >
> >
> >Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
> >
> >VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> >Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
> >guess
> >is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
> >promoter
> >(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
> >
> >For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
> >I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
> >as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would
> >assume
> >there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
> >like minded 35-39s like me?
> >
> >Anyone?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >DC
> >Dave Campbell
> >adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> >EarthLink Revolves Around You.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
> it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
>

Alec Bentley

Perhaps some of you who have been following or contributing to the debate on
if Master categories should commence at 35 or 40 may be interested to know
how it works in the UK and most of Europe.

The British League of Veteran Racing Cyclists (www.lvrc.org if you are
interested) has a category every 5-years commencing at 40. Therefore if you
are 40 to 44 you are a Category A, 45 to 49 you are a Category B all the way
up to 70 to 74 you are a Category G then over 75 is designated as Category
H.

Each race promoter decides how many different races to promote depending on
budgets and the number of riders in each category who register. Typically
it is A&B?s (40 to 49) / C&D?s (50 to 59) / EFG&H?s. (60+)

Regardless of how many separate races are promoted results are posted for
each 5-year category.

This has been a very successful formula in the UK and Europe where there are
numerous races for Master age riders.

A couple of other points about the UK system. Woman Masters, (Ladies in the
UK) can compete with Men Masters and are given a 10-year benefit. As an
example 40 to 44 year old woman would compete with the 50 to 54 old men.

? The LVRC allows (encouraged, in fact) riders to compete in an older age
group than their calendar age indicates. This is deliberately designed to
help people get back into racing, and move up the groups as fitness starts
to return.?

Alec Bentley

>From: "Mike Murray"
>Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
>To:
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
>
>There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
>are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
>the age distribution of road members was:
>
><20 169
>20to24 133
>25to29 264
>30to34 398
>35to39 466
>40to44 371
>45to49 266
>50to54 148
>55to59 74
>60to64 34
>65+ 24
>
>Here are the mean ages by road category:
>
>1 33
>2 36
>3 38
>4 36
>5 36
>
>Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
>
>Mike Murray
>-----Original Message-----
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
>Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
>
>Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
>awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
>
>Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
>
>Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Dave Campbell
>To: obra
>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
>Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
>Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
>
>VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
>Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
>guess
>is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
>promoter
>(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
>
>For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
>I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
>as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would
>assume
>there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
>like minded 35-39s like me?
>
>Anyone?
>
>Thanks,
>DC
>Dave Campbell
>adcampbell46@earthlink.net
>EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1

Malcolm, Gary

Well, at least this chat has helped pass the time until the Cherry Pie.

As an addendum I'd like to note that in the Eugene Area New Year's Ride
(unofficial race, really) the large peloton of riders filled with all ages
and categories got it's collective butt handed to it by Rick Hammel... 2006
40+ Oregon State Criterium Champion.

Gary Malcolm

c.rycewicz@comcast.net

I also agree with much of what my friends and long time on and off competitors Jerry and Darell have to say. However, some of us who used to beat up on each other at alpenrose in the 80's are not as fast as we used to be and may occasionally have some difficulty actually racing guys in their thirties. Thus, I for one enjoy age graded racing because it actually provides an opportunity to still race, and with guys who I for the most part trust. The passing of training and tactical knowledge can be done on training rides and at PIR.

--
Christopher A. Rycewicz
c.rycewicz@comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jerald M Powell
I concur with Darell. The purpose of "Veterans" racing, as I've participated in it in Canada and in Europe wasn't at all to ensure a successful racing "opportunity" for everyone... It was primarily to give the "emeriti" from senior racing an opportunity to participate with their peers. It's not the only conceptual framework. Here, the USCF was strong-armed by the USOC into supporting age graded racing, starting with 30 year olds in order to be "consistent" with other US Olympic sport national organizations. It was (and is) a screwy idea that simply bleeds the senior athlete ranks of many of the most experienced and most competitive riders. There needs to be an incentive for aging riders to continue riding at the highest level they can maintain to do so... if for no other reason than to teach younger riders how to survive and maybe thrive in this sport.

I'm not sure that setting any arbitrary age by itself is the best answer. Maybe a combination of age and category like Washington was doing a few years ago is a better answer. Washington had "A" and "B" masters classes in the early/mid nineties. As I recall, the "A" class was 35 to 45 year old cat 3s and 4s and 45+ 1s and 2s. The "B" masters were everyone else (except cat 5 masters, who for safety reasons were required to race with their category). The result was that older masters who weren't competitive with the 35 year old cat 1 and 2 fields any longer came back to racing in the "B" class, the still fairly fast forty five year olds could beat up on each other and the slightly younger 3s and 4s, and the senior 1s and 2s didn't lose their most experienced talent to the masters field.

I'd have to say that Harry's implicit option of just having everyone race their category and letting the chips fall where they will does have some attraction... but only in frustration over trying to reason what alternative is both equitable and attractive... and is still racing.

Shouldn't we talk this out, even if it is a reprise of a old issue, at the Annual Meeting?

Jerry

On Dec 31, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Darell Provencher wrote:

Funny how this topic comes back up every couple of years. Just an FYI, a number of years ago I did some racing in Europe (when I was in my 40's), and there the "masters" level racing is most often called "Veterans." Veterans racing in most countries on the continent have a minimum age of 40 years. Some of my fastest times on the track were in my mid-forties. I like the OBRA standard, as it matches what most foreign racing organizations are doing. And we do have the option for race promoters ignore the default and create younger age groups if they so decide. Using age as a category criterion is a convenience for the promoter. Using ability and skill as a category will necessarily ignore age as a limitation (in most cases).
Darell

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Cumming
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 8:52 AM
To: gschreckchat@comcast.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

I won?t feel old at 40 or 50, my body will be different and will respond differently, but hopefully my mind will be sane. Hell some people celebrate 30 as getting up their, I could have cared less, and when I turn 40 in one year, 2 OBRA years, I could care less then too.
Your supposition regarding athletes winning past 35 does not distinguish between the rare few elite athletes at that level and the average person. Those individuals have been exceptional athletes their entire lives. The vast majority of people do not fit into the elite category.

From: gschreckchat@comcast.net [mailto:gschreckchat@comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:16 PM
To: tioflaco@comcast.net; 'David Hart'; obra@list.obra.org
Cc: Gordon Cumming
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
Generally, most people feel it mkeans they are getting older. Most people do not note their 35th birthday, but traditionally do seem to think of their getting old when they hit 40.
Anyway, a Masters category should apply to those who are middle age or older, and 40 seems like a good arbitrary point for that. When I was in my 30's, I did not feel that was the case. Also, if you note, there are professional racers still winning major races past 35, so it would argue that it is a bit early to consider them beyond the point where there need to race in a category for older racers.
Also, as a final matter, in Masters, there is a large number of racers in their 50's. People, who are 35 to 39 for some reason do not want to race against 25 year olds, who are only 10 year's their junior. Why then would you think people in their 50's want to race against 35 year olds who are 15 to 20 years their junior. A 40 year cut off balances the two a bit better.
Enjoy your youth. I would love to be 35.
George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Gordon Cumming"
What is so special about 40?

From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:40 PM
To: David Hart; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
This is essentially a problem that takes care of itself. Everyone get older and eventually can race masters. We changed the rules last year and it seemdd to work well. The masters fields were fairly large and will get larger as OBRA ages. There is little reason to accelerate it. What is so special about 35. Just race your category until you are 40. In running, you are not considered a Masters until you are 40, and no one seems to whine about it.
--
George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Hart"
Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by the length of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This would leave the 4's to race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately). I plan on being at the banquet, you just have to bring it up for discussion, get a vote and go from there OR just convince organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror other races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in there so here is what I think.
. . . snip
On 12/30/06, Gordon Cumming wrote:
Mike,

If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even be 30-39
1/2/3 and then 40+.

Seems like the numbers are their.

Gordie

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
the age distribution of road members was:

<20 169
2 0to24 133
25 to29 264
30to34 398
35to39 466
40to44 371
45to49 266
50to54 148
55to59 74
60to64 34
65+ 24

Here are the mean ages by road category:

1 33
2 36
3 38
4 36
5 36

Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.

Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
To: ob ra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell
To: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter
(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

Jerry Powell
USAC Level 1 Coach
1926 SW Madison St
Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173
503 799 7823

jpowell@spiritone.com

Jerald M Powell

I concur with Darell. The purpose of "Veterans" racing, as I've
participated in it in Canada and in Europe wasn't at all to ensure a
successful racing "opportunity" for everyone... It was primarily to
give the "emeriti" from senior racing an opportunity to participate
with their peers. It's not the only conceptual framework. Here, the
USCF was strong-armed by the USOC into supporting age graded racing,
starting with 30 year olds in order to be "consistent" with other US
Olympic sport national organizations. It was (and is) a screwy idea
that simply bleeds the senior athlete ranks of many of the most
experienced and most competitive riders. There needs to be an
incentive for aging riders to continue riding at the highest level
they can maintain to do so... if for no other reason than to teach
younger riders how to survive and maybe thrive in this sport.

I'm not sure that setting any arbitrary age by itself is the best
answer. Maybe a combination of age and category like Washington was
doing a few years ago is a better answer. Washington had "A" and "B"
masters classes in the early/mid nineties. As I recall, the "A"
class was 35 to 45 year old cat 3s and 4s and 45+ 1s and 2s. The "B"
masters were everyone else (except cat 5 masters, who for safety
reasons were required to race with their category). The result was
that older masters who weren't competitive with the 35 year old cat 1
and 2 fields any longer came back to racing in the "B" class, the
still fairly fast forty five year olds could beat up on each other
and the slightly younger 3s and 4s, and the senior 1s and 2s didn't
lose their most experienced talent to the masters field.

I'd have to say that Harry's implicit option of just having everyone
race their category and letting the chips fall where they will does
have some attraction... but only in frustration over trying to
reason what alternative is both equitable and attractive... and is
still racing.

Shouldn't we talk this out, even if it is a reprise of a old issue,
at the Annual Meeting?

Jerry

On Dec 31, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Darell Provencher wrote:

> Funny how this topic comes back up every couple of years. Just an
> FYI, a number of years ago I did some racing in Europe (when I was
> in my 40's), and there the "masters" level racing is most often
> called "Veterans." Veterans racing in most countries on the
> continent have a minimum age of 40 years. Some of my fastest times
> on the track were in my mid-forties. I like the OBRA standard, as
> it matches what most foreign racing organizations are doing. And we
> do have the option for race promoters ignore the default and create
> younger age groups if they so decide. Using age as a category
> criterion is a convenience for the promoter. Using ability and
> skill as a category will necessarily ignore age as a limitation (in
> most cases).
>
> Darell
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Cumming
> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 8:52 AM
> To: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> I won’t feel old at 40 or 50, my body will be different and will
> respond differently, but hopefully my mind will be sane. Hell some
> people celebrate 30 as getting up their, I could have cared less,
> and when I turn 40 in one year, 2 OBRA years, I could care less
> then too.
>
> Your supposition regarding athletes winning past 35 does not
> distinguish between the rare few elite athletes at that level and
> the average person. Those individuals have been exceptional
> athletes their entire lives. The vast majority of people do not
> fit into the elite category.
>
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net [mailto:gschreckchat@comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:16 PM
> To: tioflaco@comcast.net; 'David Hart'; obra@list.obra.org
> Cc: Gordon Cumming
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
> Generally, most people feel it mkeans they are getting older. Most
> people do not note their 35th birthday, but traditionally do seem
> to think of their getting old when they hit 40.
>
> Anyway, a Masters category should apply to those who are middle age
> or older, and 40 seems like a good arbitrary point for that. When
> I was in my 30's, I did not feel that was the case. Also, if you
> note, there are professional racers still winning major races past
> 35, so it would argue that it is a bit early to consider them
> beyond the point where there need to race in a category for older
> racers.
>
> Also, as a final matter, in Masters, there is a large number of
> racers in their 50's. People, who are 35 to 39 for some reason do
> not want to race against 25 year olds, who are only 10 year's their
> junior. Why then would you think people in their 50's want to race
> against 35 year olds who are 15 to 20 years their junior. A 40
> year cut off balances the two a bit better.
>
> Enjoy your youth. I would love to be 35.
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Gordon Cumming"
>
> What is so special about 40?
>
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:40 PM
> To: David Hart; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
> This is essentially a problem that takes care of itself. Everyone
> get older and eventually can race masters. We changed the rules
> last year and it seemdd to work well. The masters fields were
> fairly large and will get larger as OBRA ages. There is little
> reason to accelerate it. What is so special about 35. Just race
> your category until you are 40. In running, you are not considered
> a Masters until you are 40, and no one seems to whine about it.
>
> --
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "David Hart"
>
> Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by
> the length of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This
> would leave the 4's to race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately).
> I plan on being at the banquet, you just have to bring it up for
> discussion, get a vote and go from there OR just convince
> organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror other
> races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I
> basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in
> there so here is what I think.
>
> . . . snip
>
>
> On 12/30/06, Gordon Cumming wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even
> be 30-39
> 1/2/3 and then 40+.
>
> Seems like the numbers are their.
>
> Gordie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Murray
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
> There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly
> there
> are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of
> this year
> the age distribution of road members was:
>
> <20 169
> 2 0to24 133
> 25 to29 264
> 30to34 398
> 35to39 466
> 40to44 371
> 45to49 266
> 50to54 148
> 55to59 74
> 60to64 34
> 65+ 24
>
> Here are the mean ages by road category:
>
> 1 33
> 2 36
> 3 38
> 4 36
> 5 36
>
> Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
>
> Mike Murray
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> To: ob ra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
> Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
>
> Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5.
> This is
> awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
>
> Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
>
> Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dave Campbell
> To: obra
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
> Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
>
> VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and
> my guess
> is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
> promoter
> (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
>
> For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
> triathlon,
> I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can
> actually race
> as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I
> would assume
> there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE
> ENOUGH
> like minded 35-39s like me?
>
> Anyone?
>
> Thanks,
> DC
> Dave Campbell
> adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>

Jerry Powell
USAC Level 1 Coach
1926 SW Madison St
Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173
503 799 7823

jpowell@spiritone.com

Harry Phinney

Luciano wrote:

> Just the notion of eliminating juniors, masters or woman's races is so far
away from the real issue.

The issue is providing appropriate racing divisions for the number and
strength distribution of the riders while meeting the scheduling and
logistical constraints of the race promoters. It is impractical for many
promoters to provide, for example, 4 (or more) different Cat 3 races - one
for Senior Men, one for Junior Men, one (or more) for Masters Men, and one
for Women. If all of these riders are indeed of equivalent "Cat 3" strength,
why should they not race against each other?

I can't claim to have experience racing in Women's classes (although I have
certainly raced against women), but I've raced as a Junior, a Senior 1 & 2,
and a Master from 35+ through 50+. I have generally cared little about the
age or gender of the other racers around me, but instead desire good sized
fields of competitors with reasonably similar strengths. As a Junior I
generally preferred riding "Senior" races unless the Junior race was large
or important enough to draw competitors from outside of Oregon. There have
been several Junior "men" who have been quite competitive in "A" or "1/2"
races - people like Mateo Martignoni and Andy Peak to Jacob Hacker come to
mind, and there have been many others. While it is appropriate to have age
and gender divided championships, for week-to-week racing I think people
learn more and develop more quickly as racers by competing against a broader
cross section of riders. You (Luciano) speak of Masters racers helping to
develop younger riders, but appear to fail to see that one of the primary
means of aiding such development is by competing in the races themselves. As
a Junior I learned more from racing against the experienced Senior and "Vet"
racers than when racing against other young and relatively inexperienced
Juniors. This is not to say that running 5 races - P/1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 would
be appropriate. The Cherry Pie entry form lists 11 fields (leaving out
Tandem and any possible single/fixed class). It's likely that to gracefully
handle the number of riders there would need to be at least 7 to 9 fields,
but I still don't see the necessity to break the fields along age or
possibly even gender boundaries. I'll also point out that the people who
have complained most loudly about the lack of 35+ Masters races are Cat 2
riders who are only marginally competitive in P/1/2 races, but who (I
suspect) could be reasonably strong competitors in a "pure" Cat 2 race.

Harry Phinney

Joe Cipale

Luciano bailey wrote:

> Just the notion of eliminating juniors ,masters or woman's races is so
> far away from the real issue. Woman and juniors have fought hard to
> grow there memberships and numbers at races. These are areas we should
> be careful to foster, the diversity of OBRA is one of it's greatest
> attributes. We are fortunate that we have some of the largest woman's
> and juniors racing per capita ratios. So no offense to the masters
> let's leave the woman and juniors out of it. I don't know about anyone
> else , for me the proudest moments as an OBRA member have been
> watching young riders like Larsynn Staley, Carson Miller, even the
> young KIWIS who rise to a world competitive level. So here is
> something which we can all put our 07 efforts into. Pitch OBRA at your
> local High School, middle school etc. women get out there and
> encourage others about this great sport, the biggest lesson learned
> from all the masters debate is that we need more young folks and more
> women. Oregon is the perfect soil to grow the next crop of world class
> racers, it's masters will serve as the ultimate fertilizers ( not
> literally) the best one who has mastered an art can do is pass it on.
> Hand in hand with all other things bike in Oregon we will reign as the
> cycling throne of the US. So lets put the keyboards away get on the
> bike and suss it out on race day cheers.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Harry Phinney
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:42 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
> The unspoken complaint I detect in this thread is that there are
> no Cat 2
> races. One either races Cat 3, or P/1/2 (or Masters/Women/Junior).
> While the
> P/1 portion of P/1/2 races may not be large in number, they
> disproportionately affect the speed and tactics of the races. While I
> suspect there are insufficient numbers of P/1 riders to hold
> standalone P/1
> races alongside standalone Cat 2 races, it seems that such Cat
> 2-only events
> might satisfy the competitive needs of many of the currently
> dissatisfied
> 35-39 year olds.
>
> A radical (and, I admit, not thoroughly thought-out) proposal:
> Do not run Master, Women, or perhaps even Junior races at most
> events, and
> instead run sufficient numbers of ability categories to
> accommodate the
> breadth of abilities represented. Perhaps this is P/1, 2, 3, 4, 5;
> perhaps
> this is P/1/2, 2, 2/3, 3, 3/4, 4, 5. The latter would likely restrict
> upgrade point opportunities. Perhaps at times there may have to be
> multiple
> fields for categories such as 3 and/or 4 due to the Masters,
> Women, and
> Juniors increasing the numbers in those fields.
>
> Harry Phinney
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obraorg
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
Ya know... I could sworn that this issue was decided... last year!

Why on earth are we beating this already dead horse? With rare
exception, I cant think of
too many people who outright complained about the way a race was setup
or the categories
the promoters had chosen.

Time to put this to bed, okay?

Luciano bailey

Just the notion of eliminating juniors ,masters or woman's races is so far away from the real issue. Woman and juniors have fought hard to grow there memberships and numbers at races. These are areas we should be careful to foster, the diversity of OBRA is one of it's greatest attributes. We are fortunate that we have some of the largest woman's and juniors racing per capita ratios. So no offense to the masters let's leave the woman and juniors out of it. I don't know about anyone else , for me the proudest moments as an OBRA member have been watching young riders like Larsynn Staley, Carson Miller, even the young KIWIS who rise to a world competitive level. So here is something which we can all put our 07 efforts into. Pitch OBRA at your local High School, middle school etc. women get out there and encourage others about this great sport, the biggest lesson learned from all the masters debate is that we need more young folks and more women. Oregon is the perfect soil to grow the next crop of world class racers, it's masters will serve as the ultimate fertilizers ( not literally) the best one who has mastered an art can do is pass it on. Hand in hand with all other things bike in Oregon we will reign as the cycling throne of the US. So lets put the keyboards away get on the bike and suss it out on race day cheers.
----- Original Message -----
From: Harry Phinney
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

The unspoken complaint I detect in this thread is that there are no Cat 2
races. One either races Cat 3, or P/1/2 (or Masters/Women/Junior). While the
P/1 portion of P/1/2 races may not be large in number, they
disproportionately affect the speed and tactics of the races. While I
suspect there are insufficient numbers of P/1 riders to hold standalone P/1
races alongside standalone Cat 2 races, it seems that such Cat 2-only events
might satisfy the competitive needs of many of the currently dissatisfied
35-39 year olds.

A radical (and, I admit, not thoroughly thought-out) proposal:
Do not run Master, Women, or perhaps even Junior races at most events, and
instead run sufficient numbers of ability categories to accommodate the
breadth of abilities represented. Perhaps this is P/1, 2, 3, 4, 5; perhaps
this is P/1/2, 2, 2/3, 3, 3/4, 4, 5. The latter would likely restrict
upgrade point opportunities. Perhaps at times there may have to be multiple
fields for categories such as 3 and/or 4 due to the Masters, Women, and
Juniors increasing the numbers in those fields.

Harry Phinney

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Harry Phinney

The unspoken complaint I detect in this thread is that there are no Cat 2
races. One either races Cat 3, or P/1/2 (or Masters/Women/Junior). While the
P/1 portion of P/1/2 races may not be large in number, they
disproportionately affect the speed and tactics of the races. While I
suspect there are insufficient numbers of P/1 riders to hold standalone P/1
races alongside standalone Cat 2 races, it seems that such Cat 2-only events
might satisfy the competitive needs of many of the currently dissatisfied
35-39 year olds.

A radical (and, I admit, not thoroughly thought-out) proposal:
Do not run Master, Women, or perhaps even Junior races at most events, and
instead run sufficient numbers of ability categories to accommodate the
breadth of abilities represented. Perhaps this is P/1, 2, 3, 4, 5; perhaps
this is P/1/2, 2, 2/3, 3, 3/4, 4, 5. The latter would likely restrict
upgrade point opportunities. Perhaps at times there may have to be multiple
fields for categories such as 3 and/or 4 due to the Masters, Women, and
Juniors increasing the numbers in those fields.

Harry Phinney

gschreckchat@comcast.net

My point is that there is not a big drop off at 35 and there is little reason for people at that age to need to beat up on people much older than they are. It is not like you are being permanently banned from masters. You just have to wait a few years. How hard is that. There needs to be some cut off, and 40 was chosen. If we reduce it to 35, why not 30 or 25? I am sure that theee are people in those ages that are pack fodder and have responsibilities that prevent them from training as much as they would like.
--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Gordon Cumming"

I won?t feel old at 40 or 50, my body will be different and will respond differently, but hopefully my mind will be sane. Hell some people celebrate 30 as getting up their, I could have cared less, and when I turn 40 in one year, 2 OBRA years, I could care less then too.

Your supposition regarding athletes winning past 35 does not distinguish between the rare few elite athletes at that level and the average person. Those individuals have been exceptional athletes their entire lives. The vast majority of people do not fit into the elite category.

From: gschreckchat@comcast.net [mailto:gschreckchat@comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:16 PM
To: tioflaco@comcast.net; 'David Hart'; obra@list.obra.org
Cc: Gordon Cumming
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Generally, most people feel it mkeans they are getting older. Most people do not note their 35th birthday, but traditionally do seem to think of their getting old when they hit 40.

Anyway, a Masters category should apply to those who are middle age or older, and 40 seems like a good arbitrary point for that. When I was in my 30's, I did not feel that was the case. Also, if you note, there are professional racers still winning major races past 35, so it would argue that it is a bit early to consider them beyond the point where there need to race in a category for older racers.

Also, as a final matter, in Masters, there is a large number of racers in their 50's. People, who are 35 to 39 for some reason do not want to race against 25 year olds, who are only 10 year's their junior. Why then would you think people in their 50's want to race against 35 year olds who are 15 to 20 years their junior. A 40 year cut off balances the two a bit better.

Enjoy your youth. I would love to be 35.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Gordon Cumming"
What is so special about 40?

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of gschreckchat@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:40 PM
To: David Hart; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

This is essentially a problem that takes care of itself. Everyone get older and eventually can race masters. We changed the rules last year and it seemdd to work well. The masters fields were fairly large and will get larger as OBRA ages. There is little reason to accelerate it. What is so special about 35. Just race your category until you are 40. In running, you are not considered a Masters until you are 40, and no one seems to whine about it.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Hart"
Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by the length of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This would leave the 4's to race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately). I plan on being at the banquet, you just have to bring it up for discussion, get a vote and go from there OR just convince organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror other races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in there so here is what I think.

The number of OBRA members could support the following:

Pro 1/2
2/3 masters 35+
3's
4/5
Masters 4/5
1/2/3 women
masters women open
JR's
single speed or tandem or HPV or whatever minority that you are...

On 12/30/06, Gordon Cumming wrote:
Mike,

If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even be 30-39
1/2/3 and then 40+.

Seems like the numbers are their.

Gordie

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
the age distribution of road members was:

<20 169
2 0to24 133
25 to29 264
30to34 398
35to39 466
40to44 371
45to49 266
50to54 148
55to59 74
60to64 34
65+ 24

Here are the mean ages by road category:

1 33
2 36
3 38
4 36
5 36

Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.

Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
To: ob ra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell
To: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter
(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

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Greg Crane

If you look at Mike Murray's' numbers you will see
that the mean age of all OBRA members is 37, 36 for
cat 2's and 33 for cat 1's. I would think that the
point of being a masters is that one has reached an
age where you are older by at least a few years than
most other members. I think being a master is not a
specific age but rather a relative age. If you line
up in a cat 1/2 race and most people are your age than
are you a master?

In any ability category there will always be some
young gun who kicks ass before moving on. That is the
way the system works. If you take away half the pack
of a cat 1/2 race because they are now masters who
does this help. Being a cat 1/2 would then suck and
so would the race quality, team tactics would fall
apart. I think OBRA would not be well served and the
young racers who can make it to the pro ranks will not
get as good an experience. I wish I could race cat
1/2 just to help the young racers on my team. As it
is now I try to help the juniors win in a cat 3/4
race. Maybe that is my problem, I see OBRA as much as
a development program as a place for me to race.

This is a team sport, when I'm just pack fill and know
it, I put my efforts toward helping a team mate who
can win. Often I DNF because I have spent all my
energy covering moves off the front or pulling in a
break away so team mates won't spend their energy
until it counts, or I may do a lead out which leaves
me with nothing for myself but 40th place. For me
that is a hell of a lot of fun, and when my team mate
does win, I feel I had a part in it, even if I didn't,
I still get satisfaction and I know I wasn't just pack
fill.

As for being pack fill, remember this is bike racing.
Most people are pack fill in a bike race. 50 guys
line up to race, in that race only about 10 guys are
going to make the race, the rest are pack fill.

For myself I only have 8-10 hours a week to train, I
am the sole financial support for my wife and kids and
I work a night shift. This makes me pack fill in just
about any race, be it cat 4 or a masters. The point
of all this for me is to improve myself. I get no
special consideration, no handicap and I certainly do
not get a cateGregory (see my earlier post). So boo
fu@king hoo cry me a river, now you know why I have no
sympathy for a 37 year old cat 1/2 who feels like pack
fill.

Just wait a few more years. At 40 you will be one of
the strongest guys around. Then you can relegate me
all you want. When that happens I will have a new
goal to train for. I will push myself a little
harder, and squeeze a little more out of my training
time just so I can fill your pack.

Greg
--- Gordon Cumming wrote:

> Their seems to be an interesting undertone to much
> of this conversation. It
> seems that some feel that if your not 40 but between
> 35 and 40 and
> previously raced, or still race as a 1/2 the only
> reason you want to lower
> the master age to 35+ is so you can sand bag and
> take all the glory. That
> assumes you took all the glory and as a 1/2
> possibly. Some of you may know
> some of you may not, that winning a 1/2 race is hard
> enough, winning
> multiple 1/2 races is a true feet. Some, many,
> etc., 35+ 1/2 races are just
> plain pack fill not because they are old, but
> because life does not allow
> them to train to actually race as a 1/2, just
> participate. For some this
> does not appear to be the case, but I do not think
> that is the case for the
> majority of them. I'm not speaking for them, just
> my simple opinion.
>
> I don't know of any 1/2 that will downgrade to 3.
> It is not ego it is a
> matter of personal safety, race distance, racing
> tactics (they simply have
> not learned the subtle nuances of racing yet, but
> they will), and race
> intensity. As Mike has indicated the numbers seem
> to support a good number
> of 35+ 1/2/3 masters fields. I do agree that a
> simple open masters might
> not be the best idea for those just getting into
> cycling and would present a
> logistical effort to score separately.
>
> There is nothing special about 35 or 40, they are
> somewhat arbitrary.
>
> This can certainly be and should be discussed at the
> banquet.
>
> Gordon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick C Johnson
> [mailto:RCJohnson1@attglobal.net]
> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:21 PM
> To: tioflaco@comcast.net
> Cc: gschreckchat@comcast.net; 'David Hart';
> obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
> The same question could be asked of 35...
>
> Gordon Cumming wrote:
>
> > What is so special about 40?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> > *On Behalf Of *gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > *Sent:* Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:40 PM
> > *To:* David Hart; obra@list.obra.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >
> >
> >
> > This is essentially a problem that takes care of
> itself. Everyone get
> > older and eventually can race masters. We changed
> the rules last year
> > and it seemdd to work well. The masters fields
> were fairly large and
> > will get larger as OBRA ages. There is little
> reason to
> > accelerate it. What is so special about 35. Just
> race your category
> > until you are 40. In running, you are not
> considered a Masters until
> > you are 40, and no one seems to whine about it.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "David Hart"
> >
> > Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please
> everyone as proven by
> > the length of this thread). I would rather
> race 35+ 2/3. This
> > would leave the 4's to race w/5's(they are
> more 4's & 5's lately).
> > I plan on being at the banquet, you just have
> to bring it up for
> > discussion, get a vote and go from there OR
> just convince
> > organizers to have this field. However this
> doesn't mirror other
> > races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so
> forth in categories. I
> > basically race the OBRA calendar with an
> Elkhorn or Hood thrown in
> > there so here is what I think.
> >
> >
> >
> > The number of OBRA members could support the
> following:
> >
> >
> >
> > Pro 1/2
> >
> > 2/3 masters 35+
> >
> > 3's
> >
> > 4/5
> >
> > Masters 4/5
> >
> > 1/2/3 women
> >
> > masters women open
> >
> > JR's
> >
> > single speed or tandem or HPV or whatever
> minority that you are...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/30/06, *Gordon Cumming*
> > > wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3
> category, it could
> > even be 30-39
> > 1/2/3 and then 40+.
> >
> > Seems like the numbers are their.
> >
> > Gordie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > [mailto:
> > obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> ] On
> > Behalf Of Mike Murray
> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
>
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >
> > There are often references to the mythic 18 yo
> bike
> > racer. Frankly there
> > are not many of them. Most are slower
> category. From the end of
> > this year
> > the age distribution of road members was:
> >
> > <20 169
> > 2 0to24 133
> > 25to29 264
> > 30to34 398
> > 35to39 466
> > 40to44 371
> > 45to49 266
> > 50to54 148
> > 55to59 74
> > 60to64 34
> > 65+ 24
> >
> > Here are the mean ages by road category:
> >
> > 1 33
> > 2 36
>
=== message truncated ===

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Darell Provencher

Funny how this topic comes back up every couple of years. Just an FYI, a
number of years ago I did some racing in Europe (when I was in my 40's), and
there the "masters" level racing is most often called "Veterans." Veterans
racing in most countries on the continent have a minimum age of 40 years.
Some of my fastest times on the track were in my mid-forties. I like the
OBRA standard, as it matches what most foreign racing organizations are
doing. And we do have the option for race promoters ignore the default and
create younger age groups if they so decide. Using age as a category
criterion is a convenience for the promoter. Using ability and skill as a
category will necessarily ignore age as a limitation (in most cases).

Darell

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Gordon Cumming
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 8:52 AM
To: gschreckchat@comcast.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

I won't feel old at 40 or 50, my body will be different and will respond
differently, but hopefully my mind will be sane. Hell some people celebrate
30 as getting up their, I could have cared less, and when I turn 40 in one
year, 2 OBRA years, I could care less then too.

Your supposition regarding athletes winning past 35 does not distinguish
between the rare few elite athletes at that level and the average person.
Those individuals have been exceptional athletes their entire lives. The
vast majority of people do not fit into the elite category.

_____

From: gschreckchat@comcast.net [mailto:gschreckchat@comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:16 PM
To: tioflaco@comcast.net; 'David Hart'; obra@list.obra.org
Cc: Gordon Cumming
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Generally, most people feel it mkeans they are getting older. Most people
do not note their 35th birthday, but traditionally do seem to think of their
getting old when they hit 40.

Anyway, a Masters category should apply to those who are middle age or
older, and 40 seems like a good arbitrary point for that. When I was in my
30's, I did not feel that was the case. Also, if you note, there are
professional racers still winning major races past 35, so it would argue
that it is a bit early to consider them beyond the point where there need to
race in a category for older racers.

Also, as a final matter, in Masters, there is a large number of racers in
their 50's. People, who are 35 to 39 for some reason do not want to race
against 25 year olds, who are only 10 year's their junior. Why then would
you think people in their 50's want to race against 35 year olds who are 15
to 20 years their junior. A 40 year cut off balances the two a bit better.

Enjoy your youth. I would love to be 35.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Gordon Cumming"
What is so special about 40?

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of gschreckchat@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:40 PM
To: David Hart; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

This is essentially a problem that takes care of itself. Everyone get older
and eventually can race masters. We changed the rules last year and it
seemdd to work well. The masters fields were fairly large and will get
larger as OBRA ages. There is little reason to accelerate it. What is so
special about 35. Just race your category until you are 40. In running,
you are not considered a Masters until you are 40, and no one seems to whine
about it.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Hart"
Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by the length
of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This would leave the 4's to
race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately). I plan on being at the banquet,
you just have to bring it up for discussion, get a vote and go from there OR
just convince organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror
other races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I
basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in there so
here is what I think.

The number of OBRA members could support the following:

Pro 1/2
2/3 masters 35+
3's
4/5
Masters 4/5
1/2/3 women
masters women open
JR's
single speed or tandem or HPV or whatever minority that you are...

On 12/30/06, Gordon Cumming wrote:
Mike,

If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even be 30-39
1/2/3 and then 40+.

Seems like the numbers are their.

Gordie

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:
obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
the age distribution of road members was:

<20 169
2 0to24 133
25 to29 264
30to34 398
35to39 466
40to44 371
45to49 266
50to54 148
55to59 74
60to64 34
65+ 24

Here are the mean ages by road category:

1 33
2 36
3 38
4 36
5 36

Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.

Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
To: ob ra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell >
To: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter

(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Gordon Cumming

I won't feel old at 40 or 50, my body will be different and will respond
differently, but hopefully my mind will be sane. Hell some people celebrate
30 as getting up their, I could have cared less, and when I turn 40 in one
year, 2 OBRA years, I could care less then too.

Your supposition regarding athletes winning past 35 does not distinguish
between the rare few elite athletes at that level and the average person.
Those individuals have been exceptional athletes their entire lives. The
vast majority of people do not fit into the elite category.

_____

From: gschreckchat@comcast.net [mailto:gschreckchat@comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:16 PM
To: tioflaco@comcast.net; 'David Hart'; obra@list.obra.org
Cc: Gordon Cumming
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Generally, most people feel it mkeans they are getting older. Most people
do not note their 35th birthday, but traditionally do seem to think of their
getting old when they hit 40.

Anyway, a Masters category should apply to those who are middle age or
older, and 40 seems like a good arbitrary point for that. When I was in my
30's, I did not feel that was the case. Also, if you note, there are
professional racers still winning major races past 35, so it would argue
that it is a bit early to consider them beyond the point where there need to
race in a category for older racers.

Also, as a final matter, in Masters, there is a large number of racers in
their 50's. People, who are 35 to 39 for some reason do not want to race
against 25 year olds, who are only 10 year's their junior. Why then would
you think people in their 50's want to race against 35 year olds who are 15
to 20 years their junior. A 40 year cut off balances the two a bit better.

Enjoy your youth. I would love to be 35.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Gordon Cumming"
What is so special about 40?

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of gschreckchat@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:40 PM
To: David Hart; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

This is essentially a problem that takes care of itself. Everyone get older
and eventually can race masters. We changed the rules last year and it
seemdd to work well. The masters fields were fairly large and will get
larger as OBRA ages. There is little reason to accelerate it. What is so
special about 35. Just race your category until you are 40. In running,
you are not considered a Masters until you are 40, and no one seems to whine
about it.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Hart"
Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by the length
of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This would leave the 4's to
race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately). I plan on being at the banquet,
you just have to bring it up for discussion, get a vote and go from there OR
just convince organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror
other races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I
basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in there so
here is what I think.

The number of OBRA members could support the following:

Pro 1/2
2/3 masters 35+
3's
4/5
Masters 4/5
1/2/3 women
masters women open
JR's
single speed or tandem or HPV or whatever minority that you are...

On 12/30/06, Gordon Cumming wrote:
Mike,

If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even be 30-39
1/2/3 and then 40+.

Seems like the numbers are their.

Gordie

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
the age distribution of road members was:

<20 169
2 0to24 133
25 to29 264
30to34 398
35to39 466
40to44 371
45to49 266
50to54 148
55to59 74
60to64 34
65+ 24

Here are the mean ages by road category:

1 33
2 36
3 38
4 36
5 36

Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.

Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
To: ob ra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell
To: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter

(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
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Gordon Cumming

Their seems to be an interesting undertone to much of this conversation. It
seems that some feel that if your not 40 but between 35 and 40 and
previously raced, or still race as a 1/2 the only reason you want to lower
the master age to 35+ is so you can sand bag and take all the glory. That
assumes you took all the glory and as a 1/2 possibly. Some of you may know
some of you may not, that winning a 1/2 race is hard enough, winning
multiple 1/2 races is a true feet. Some, many, etc., 35+ 1/2 races are just
plain pack fill not because they are old, but because life does not allow
them to train to actually race as a 1/2, just participate. For some this
does not appear to be the case, but I do not think that is the case for the
majority of them. I'm not speaking for them, just my simple opinion.

I don't know of any 1/2 that will downgrade to 3. It is not ego it is a
matter of personal safety, race distance, racing tactics (they simply have
not learned the subtle nuances of racing yet, but they will), and race
intensity. As Mike has indicated the numbers seem to support a good number
of 35+ 1/2/3 masters fields. I do agree that a simple open masters might
not be the best idea for those just getting into cycling and would present a
logistical effort to score separately.

There is nothing special about 35 or 40, they are somewhat arbitrary.

This can certainly be and should be discussed at the banquet.

Gordon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick C Johnson [mailto:RCJohnson1@attglobal.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:21 PM
To: tioflaco@comcast.net
Cc: gschreckchat@comcast.net; 'David Hart'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

The same question could be asked of 35...

Gordon Cumming wrote:

> What is so special about 40?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *gschreckchat@comcast.net
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:40 PM
> *To:* David Hart; obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
>
> This is essentially a problem that takes care of itself. Everyone get
> older and eventually can race masters. We changed the rules last year
> and it seemdd to work well. The masters fields were fairly large and
> will get larger as OBRA ages. There is little reason to
> accelerate it. What is so special about 35. Just race your category
> until you are 40. In running, you are not considered a Masters until
> you are 40, and no one seems to whine about it.
>
>
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "David Hart"
>
> Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by
> the length of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This
> would leave the 4's to race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately).
> I plan on being at the banquet, you just have to bring it up for
> discussion, get a vote and go from there OR just convince
> organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror other
> races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I
> basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in
> there so here is what I think.
>
>
>
> The number of OBRA members could support the following:
>
>
>
> Pro 1/2
>
> 2/3 masters 35+
>
> 3's
>
> 4/5
>
> Masters 4/5
>
> 1/2/3 women
>
> masters women open
>
> JR's
>
> single speed or tandem or HPV or whatever minority that you are...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/30/06, *Gordon Cumming* > wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could
> even be 30-39
> 1/2/3 and then 40+.
>
> Seems like the numbers are their.
>
> Gordie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:
> obra-bounces@list.obra.org ] On
> Behalf Of Mike Murray
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
> There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike
> racer. Frankly there
> are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of
> this year
> the age distribution of road members was:
>
> <20 169
> 2 0to24 133
> 25to29 264
> 30to34 398
> 35to39 466
> 40to44 371
> 45to49 266
> 50to54 148
> 55to59 74
> 60to64 34
> 65+ 24
>
> Here are the mean ages by road category:
>
> 1 33
> 2 36
> 3 38
> 4 36
> 5 36
>
> Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
>
> Mike Murray
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> ] On
> Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> To: ob ra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
> Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
>
> Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or
> 5. This is
> awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
>
> Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
>
> Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dave Campbell >
> To: obra >
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
> Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
>
> VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie
> (and my guess
> is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and
> the promoter
> (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
>
> For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
> triathlon,
> I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can
> actually race
> as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I
> would assume
> there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE
> THERE ENOUGH
> like minded 35-39s like me?
>
> Anyone?
>
> Thanks,
> DC
> Dave Campbell
> adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> __________________ ______ __________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
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>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
>

Luciano bailey

you tell um George
----- Original Message -----
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: tioflaco@comcast.net ; 'David Hart' ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Generally, most people feel it mkeans they are getting older. Most people do not note their 35th birthday, but traditionally do seem to think of their getting old when they hit 40.

Anyway, a Masters category should apply to those who are middle age or older, and 40 seems like a good arbitrary point for that. When I was in my 30's, I did not feel that was the case. Also, if you note, there are professional racers still winning major races past 35, so it would argue that it is a bit early to consider them beyond the point where there need to race in a category for older racers.

Also, as a final matter, in Masters, there is a large number of racers in their 50's. People, who are 35 to 39 for some reason do not want to race against 25 year olds, who are only 10 year's their junior. Why then would you think people in their 50's want to race against 35 year olds who are 15 to 20 years their junior. A 40 year cut off balances the two a bit better.

Enjoy your youth. I would love to be 35.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Gordon Cumming"

What is so special about 40?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of gschreckchat@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:40 PM
To: David Hart; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

This is essentially a problem that takes care of itself. Everyone get older and eventually can race masters. We changed the rules last year and it seemdd to work well. The masters fields were fairly large and will get larger as OBRA ages. There is little reason to accelerate it. What is so special about 35. Just race your category until you are 40. In running, you are not considered a Masters until you are 40, and no one seems to whine about it.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Hart"

Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by the length of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This would leave the 4's to race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately). I plan on being at the banquet, you just have to bring it up for discussion, get a vote and go from there OR just convince organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror other races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in there so here is what I think.

The number of OBRA members could support the following:

Pro 1/2

2/3 masters 35+

3's

4/5

Masters 4/5

1/2/3 women

masters women open

JR's

single speed or tandem or HPV or whatever minority that you are...

On 12/30/06, Gordon Cumming > wrote:

Mike,

If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even be 30-39
1/2/3 and then 40+.

Seems like the numbers are their.

Gordie

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
the age distribution of road members was:

<20 169
2 0to24 133
25 to29 264
30to34 398
35to39 466
40to44 371
45to49 266
50to54 148
55to59 74
60to64 34
65+ 24

Here are the mean ages by road category:

1 33
2 36
3 38
4 36
5 36

Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.

Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
To: ob ra@list.ob ra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell >
To: obra >
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 4 0 plus and the promoter
(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

__________________ ______ ________ ______ ____________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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gschreckchat@comcast.net

Generally, most people feel it mkeans they are getting older. Most people do not note their 35th birthday, but traditionally do seem to think of their getting old when they hit 40.

Anyway, a Masters category should apply to those who are middle age or older, and 40 seems like a good arbitrary point for that. When I was in my 30's, I did not feel that was the case. Also, if you note, there are professional racers still winning major races past 35, so it would argue that it is a bit early to consider them beyond the point where there need to race in a category for older racers.

Also, as a final matter, in Masters, there is a large number of racers in their 50's. People, who are 35 to 39 for some reason do not want to race against 25 year olds, who are only 10 year's their junior. Why then would you think people in their 50's want to race against 35 year olds who are 15 to 20 years their junior. A 40 year cut off balances the two a bit better.

Enjoy your youth. I would love to be 35.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Gordon Cumming"

What is so special about 40?

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of gschreckchat@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:40 PM
To: David Hart; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

This is essentially a problem that takes care of itself. Everyone get older and eventually can race masters. We changed the rules last year and it seemdd to work well. The masters fields were fairly large and will get larger as OBRA ages. There is little reason to accelerate it. What is so special about 35. Just race your category until you are 40. In running, you are not considered a Masters until you are 40, and no one seems to whine about it.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Hart"
Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by the length of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This would leave the 4's to race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately). I plan on being at the banquet, you just have to bring it up for discussion, get a vote and go from there OR just convince organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror other races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in there so here is what I think.

The number of OBRA members could support the following:

Pro 1/2
2/3 masters 35+
3's
4/5
Masters 4/5
1/2/3 women
masters women open
JR's
single speed or tandem or HPV or whatever minority that you are...

On 12/30/06, Gordon Cumming wrote:
Mike,

If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even be 30-39
1/2/3 and then 40+.

Seems like the numbers are their.

Gordie

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
the age distribution of road members was:

<20 169
2 0to24 133
25to29 264
30to34 398
35to39 466
40to44 371
45to49 266
50to54 148
55to59 74
60to64 34
65+ 24

Here are the mean ages by road category:

1 33
2 36
3 38
4 36
5 36

Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.

Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
To: ob ra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell
To: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter
(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

__________________ ______ __________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rick C Johnson

The same question could be asked of 35...

Gordon Cumming wrote:

> What is so special about 40?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *gschreckchat@comcast.net
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:40 PM
> *To:* David Hart; obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
>
> This is essentially a problem that takes care of itself. Everyone get
> older and eventually can race masters. We changed the rules last year
> and it seemdd to work well. The masters fields were fairly large and
> will get larger as OBRA ages. There is little reason to
> accelerate it. What is so special about 35. Just race your category
> until you are 40. In running, you are not considered a Masters until
> you are 40, and no one seems to whine about it.
>
>
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "David Hart"
>
> Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by
> the length of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This
> would leave the 4's to race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately).
> I plan on being at the banquet, you just have to bring it up for
> discussion, get a vote and go from there OR just convince
> organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror other
> races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I
> basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in
> there so here is what I think.
>
>
>
> The number of OBRA members could support the following:
>
>
>
> Pro 1/2
>
> 2/3 masters 35+
>
> 3's
>
> 4/5
>
> Masters 4/5
>
> 1/2/3 women
>
> masters women open
>
> JR's
>
> single speed or tandem or HPV or whatever minority that you are...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/30/06, *Gordon Cumming* > wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could
> even be 30-39
> 1/2/3 and then 40+.
>
> Seems like the numbers are their.
>
> Gordie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:
> obra-bounces@list.obra.org ] On
> Behalf Of Mike Murray
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
> There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike
> racer. Frankly there
> are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of
> this year
> the age distribution of road members was:
>
> <20 169
> 2 0to24 133
> 25to29 264
> 30to34 398
> 35to39 466
> 40to44 371
> 45to49 266
> 50to54 148
> 55to59 74
> 60to64 34
> 65+ 24
>
> Here are the mean ages by road category:
>
> 1 33
> 2 36
> 3 38
> 4 36
> 5 36
>
> Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
>
> Mike Murray
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> ] On
> Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> To: ob ra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
> Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
>
> Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or
> 5. This is
> awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
>
> Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
>
> Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dave Campbell >
> To: obra >
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
> Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
>
> VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie
> (and my guess
> is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and
> the promoter
> (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
>
> For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
> triathlon,
> I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can
> actually race
> as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I
> would assume
> there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE
> THERE ENOUGH
> like minded 35-39s like me?
>
> Anyone?
>
> Thanks,
> DC
> Dave Campbell
> adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> __________________ ______ __________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
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Gordon Cumming

What is so special about 40?

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of gschreckchat@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:40 PM
To: David Hart; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

This is essentially a problem that takes care of itself. Everyone get older
and eventually can race masters. We changed the rules last year and it
seemdd to work well. The masters fields were fairly large and will get
larger as OBRA ages. There is little reason to accelerate it. What is so
special about 35. Just race your category until you are 40. In running,
you are not considered a Masters until you are 40, and no one seems to whine
about it.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Hart"
Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by the length
of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This would leave the 4's to
race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately). I plan on being at the banquet,
you just have to bring it up for discussion, get a vote and go from there OR
just convince organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror
other races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I
basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in there so
here is what I think.

The number of OBRA members could support the following:

Pro 1/2
2/3 masters 35+
3's
4/5
Masters 4/5
1/2/3 women
masters women open
JR's
single speed or tandem or HPV or whatever minority that you are...

On 12/30/06, Gordon Cumming wrote:
Mike,

If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even be 30-39
1/2/3 and then 40+.

Seems like the numbers are their.

Gordie

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
the age distribution of road members was:

<20 169
2 0to24 133
25to29 264
30to34 398
35to39 466
40to44 371
45to49 266
50to54 148
55to59 74
60to64 34
65+ 24

Here are the mean ages by road category:

1 33
2 36
3 38
4 36
5 36

Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.

Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
To: ob ra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell
To: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter

(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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gschreckchat@comcast.net

This is essentially a problem that takes care of itself. Everyone get older and eventually can race masters. We changed the rules last year and it seemdd to work well. The masters fields were fairly large and will get larger as OBRA ages. There is little reason to accelerate it. What is so special about 35. Just race your category until you are 40. In running, you are not considered a Masters until you are 40, and no one seems to whine about it.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Hart"

Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by the length of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This would leave the 4's to race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately). I plan on being at the banquet, you just have to bring it up for discussion, get a vote and go from there OR just convince organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror other races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in there so here is what I think.

The number of OBRA members could support the following:

Pro 1/2
2/3 masters 35+
3's
4/5
Masters 4/5
1/2/3 women
masters women open
JR's
single speed or tandem or HPV or whatever minority that you are...

On 12/30/06, Gordon Cumming wrote:
Mike,

If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even be 30-39
1/2/3 and then 40+.

Seems like the numbers are their.

Gordie

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
the age distribution of road members was:

<20 169
20to24 133
25to29 264
30to34 398
35to39 466
40to44 371
45to49 266
50to54 148
55to59 74
60to64 34
65+ 24

Here are the mean ages by road category:

1 33
2 36
3 38
4 36
5 36

Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.

Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell
To: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter
(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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David Hart

Hmm, that MAY be worth trying (can't please everyone as proven by the length
of this thread). I would rather race 35+ 2/3. This would leave the 4's to
race w/5's(they are more 4's & 5's lately). I plan on being at the banquet,
you just have to bring it up for discussion, get a vote and go from there OR
just convince organizers to have this field. However this doesn't mirror
other races like Hood or Elkhorn or Cascade & so forth in categories. I
basically race the OBRA calendar with an Elkhorn or Hood thrown in there so
here is what I think.

The number of OBRA members could support the following:

Pro 1/2
2/3 masters 35+
3's
4/5
Masters 4/5
1/2/3 women
masters women open
JR's
single speed or tandem or HPV or whatever minority that you are...

On 12/30/06, Gordon Cumming wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even be
> 30-39
> 1/2/3 and then 40+.
>
> Seems like the numbers are their.
>
> Gordie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Murray
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
> There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
> are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this
> year
> the age distribution of road members was:
>
> <20 169
> 20to24 133
> 25to29 264
> 30to34 398
> 35to39 466
> 40to44 371
> 45to49 266
> 50to54 148
> 55to59 74
> 60to64 34
> 65+ 24
>
> Here are the mean ages by road category:
>
> 1 33
> 2 36
> 3 38
> 4 36
> 5 36
>
> Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
>
> Mike Murray
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
> Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
>
> Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
> awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
>
> Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
>
> Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dave Campbell
> To: obra
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
> Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
>
> VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
> guess
> is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
> promoter
> (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
>
> For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
> triathlon,
> I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually
> race
> as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would
> assume
> there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
> like minded 35-39s like me?
>
> Anyone?
>
> Thanks,
> DC
> Dave Campbell
> adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Kurt Ward

/sarcasm on

> "Think highest possible revenue with the lowest cost and effort."

Sound like the good old American way! Why don't we just start racing
in China?

/sarcasm off

sixhobsons@comcast.net

OBRA does not choose age categories to be offered at a race. OBRA did encourage going to a 40+ for master's racing. Ultimately, it is the choice of the promoter to decide what categories to offer. As a promoter I can tell you with certainty that the choice is always determined by what will attract the greatest number of particpants with the fewest number of pelotons on the road. Think highest possible revenue with the lowest cost and effort. More pelotons equals more officials and volunteers. Also, the course itself can limit how many pelotone are possible given the time needed to complete a race.

The age brackets offered by Mike should provide the information to promoters on what categories to offer. As always, the peloton will decide by participation the correct categories to offer.

Good racing,
Nathan

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "thomas morgan"

I'll start by admitting I'm in the 35-39 group so I do have a bias when it comes to this topic, and I was disappointed last year when I no longer had the option of racing masters. But what baffles me is that the 35-39 age group is the largest age demographic and the 30-34 group is the second largest. I appears OBRA is ignoring their largest demographics to cater to smaller groups. From a marketing stand point this doesn't make a lot of sense, and I 'mcurious as to why OBRA has chosen to move to 40+ and 50+ races. Also, and I have no numbers to support this only my own observations, it appears the cat 3 fields and are often very large, while the master field is noticeably smaller. It would seem lowering the masters age limit may help to even out field sizes. Anyway that's my two cents, I'll be out there racing either way.

From: "Mike Murray"
Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
>There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
>are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
>the age distribution of road members was:
>
><20 169
>20to24 133
>25to29 264
>30to34 398
>35to39 466
>40to44 371
>45to49 266
>50to54 148
>55to59 74
>60to64 34
>65+ 24
>
>Here are the mean ages by road category:
>
>1 33
>2 36
>3 38
>4 36
>5 36
>
>Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
>
>Mike Murray
>-----Original Message-----
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
>Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
>
>Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
>awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
>
>Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
>
>Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Dave Campbell
>To: obra
>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
>Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
>Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
>
>VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
>Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
>is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter
>(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
>
>For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
>I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
>as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
>there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
>like minded 35-39s like me?
>
>Anyone?
>
>Thanks,
>DC
>Dave Campbell
>adcampbell46@earthlink.net
>EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Luciano bailey

I think Mikes point is clear the super young racers are almost a non factor this is a masters racers environment, with masters capable of competing in all open categories. Not just competitive but winning many of the events, this benefits all, young and slightly aged( enough old guy already) OBRA has a unique opportunity with the wealth of masters experience that has allowed us to groom younger racers for bigger events. Even our out of town racers have found this a super competitive race scene, let alone the number of masters NATS this year. AS far as support yes indeed masters are OBRA so whatever it take to get a format that works for racers and promoters let's getter' done
----- Original Message -----
From: J.Michael Manning
To: mike.murray@obra.org ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

It seems everybody is concerned about who is best represented in the various races...these numbers are a good place to start. The 30 somethings are certainly the largest segment of racers represented, but I can't help but wonder if they are actually so well represented at the races. It would be interesting to know how these numbers add up in terms of actual race participation. Perhaps the "old" guys are more consistent in their participation in OBRA events than the younger guys and thus do more to support the local racing scene.
Mike Manning

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
> There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
> are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
> the age distribution of road members was:
>
> <20 169
> 20to24 133
> 25to29 264
> 30to34 398
> 35to39 466
> 40to44 371
> 45to49 266
> 50to54 148
> 55to59 74
> 60to64 34
> 65+ 24
>
> Here are the mean ages by road category:
>
> 1 33
> 2 36
> 3 38
> 4 36
> 5 36
>
> Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.
>
> Mike Murray
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
> Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.
>
> Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
> awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.
>
> Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?
>
> Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dave Campbell
> To: obra
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
> Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
>
> VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
> is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter
> (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
>
> For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
> I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
> as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
> there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
> like minded 35-39s like me?
>
> Anyone?
>
> Thanks,
> DC
> Dave Campbell
> adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Luciano bailey

Just like Mike bring on the math, be aware any time something is added something else gets dropped ie fixed gear races which are on the upswing as far as numbers go. I know it can be a scoring nightmare but combined fields with separate scoring could be a reasonable option.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Cumming
To: mike.murray@obra.org ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Mike,

If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even be 30-39
1/2/3 and then 40+.

Seems like the numbers are their.

Gordie

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
the age distribution of road members was:

<20 169
20to24 133
25to29 264
30to34 398
35to39 466
40to44 371
45to49 266
50to54 148
55to59 74
60to64 34
65+ 24

Here are the mean ages by road category:

1 33
2 36
3 38
4 36
5 36

Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.

Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell >
To: obra >
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter
(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Gordon Cumming

Mike,

If that is the case, why not have a 35+ 2/3 category, it could even be 30-39
1/2/3 and then 40+.

Seems like the numbers are their.

Gordie

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:08 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
the age distribution of road members was:

<20 169
20to24 133
25to29 264
30to34 398
35to39 466
40to44 371
45to49 266
50to54 148
55to59 74
60to64 34
65+ 24

Here are the mean ages by road category:

1 33
2 36
3 38
4 36
5 36

Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.

Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell
To: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter
(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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J.Michael Manning

It seems everybody is concerned about who is best represented in the various races...these numbers are a good place to start. The 30 somethings are certainly the largest segment of racers represented, but I can't help but wonder if they are actually so well represented at the races. It would be interesting to know how these numbers add up in terms of actual race participation. Perhaps the "old" guys are more consistent in their participation in OBRA events than the younger guys and thus do more to support the local racing scene. Mike Manning> From: mike.murray@obra.org> To: obra@list.obra.org> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:08:01 -0800> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?> > There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there> are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year> the age distribution of road members was:> > <20 169> 20to24 133> 25to29 264> 30to34 398> 35to39 466> 40to44 371> 45to49 266> 50to54 148> 55to59 74> 60to64 34> 65+ 24> > Here are the mean ages by road category:> > 1 33> 2 36> 3 38> 4 36> 5 36> > Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.> > Mike Murray> -----Original Message-----> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On> Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM> To: obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?> > > Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category. > > Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is> awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.> > Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?> > Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.> > > ----- Original Message ----> From: Dave Campbell > To: obra > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?> > > Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...> > VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus> Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess> is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter> (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.> > For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,> I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race> as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume> there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH> like minded 35-39s like me?> > Anyone?> > Thanks,> DC> Dave Campbell> adcampbell46@earthlink.net> EarthLink Revolves Around You.> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > > > __________________________________________________> Do You Yahoo!?> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_________________________________________________________________
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thomas morgan

Mike Murray

There are often references to the mythic 18 yo bike racer. Frankly there
are not many of them. Most are slower category. From the end of this year
the age distribution of road members was:

<20 169
20to24 133
25to29 264
30to34 398
35to39 466
40to44 371
45to49 266
50to54 148
55to59 74
60to64 34
65+ 24

Here are the mean ages by road category:

1 33
2 36
3 38
4 36
5 36

Overall the mean OBRA membership age is 37. 35+ is most of us.

Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 06:48 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is
awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell
To: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter
(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

__________________________________________________
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gschreckchat@comcast.net

Please forgive me, but I have no response whatsoever to this. Does it come with a decoder ring?

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Edward Kendrick Sr

It was pulled from me too.

The OBRA (& LAMBRA) goings-on have been being directed to benefit the strong, the rich, and the few. Think about it.

This pushes working folks away from the sport.

I remember at last year's Giro de Rankin, at the last minute, the Official joined the Cat 3 field with the 1/2's, so the 1/2's could have a qualifying race. Well that helps the participating Division 3 pro team, who get paid for this, but it makes the race senseless for the struggling 3's, who pay most of their own way.

It's the average riders, who keep the sport going, and helping them should take priority over the desires of the famous and vocal.

----- Original Message ----
From: Mark J. Ginsberg
To: David Hart ; adcampbell46@earthlink.net
Cc: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:05:01 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

reading rules is fun.
We should all read rules.

David is right obra changed the default master age to 40, but it is up to each promoter to decide.

As for me, yes I am 36, so I had one nice year as a master 35, and then it was gone, I had a taste of the forbidden fruit, taken away, alas.

Mark Ginsberg

David Hart wrote:
OBRA made the masters cat 40+, it was voted on.

On 12/28/06, Dave Campbell wrote:

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon, I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 227-2530
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com
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Edward Kendrick Sr

It was pulled from me too.

The OBRA (& LAMBRA) goings-on have been being directed to benefit the strong, the rich, and the few. Think about it.

This pushes working folks away from the sport.

I remember at last year's Giro de Rankin, at the last minute, the Official joined the Cat 3 field with the 1/2's, so the 1/2's could have a qualifying race. Well that helps the participating Division 3 pro team, who get paid for this, but it makes the race senseless for the struggling 3's, who pay most of their own way.

It's the average riders, who keep the sport going, and helping them should take priority over the desires of the famous and vocal.

----- Original Message ----
From: Mark J. Ginsberg
To: David Hart ; adcampbell46@earthlink.net
Cc: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:05:01 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

reading rules is fun.
We should all read rules.

David is right obra changed the default master age to 40, but it is up to each promoter to decide.

As for me, yes I am 36, so I had one nice year as a master 35, and then it was gone, I had a taste of the forbidden fruit, taken away, alas.

Mark Ginsberg

David Hart wrote:
OBRA made the masters cat 40+, it was voted on.

On 12/28/06, Dave Campbell wrote:
Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon, I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 227-2530
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com
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Gordon Cumming

It is not a question of "old", or getting upgraded beyond your ability, it is a question of time and priorities.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Greg Crane
> Yea, I know what you mean. Perhaps there should just
> be a Mast. 35-39 cat 1/2. Then all the "old" guys who
> don't have the time to train like a cat 1/2 (but who
> ARE cat 1/2's) can race slow and commiserate their
> horrible fate together, thus leaving we 40+ cat 3/4
> racers to ourselves.
>
> Man, hearing to sad story of racers getting older just
> makes me want to cry. It must be hard to get used to
> winning all the time and then being upgraded beyond
> the level of your ability. Makes me glad to just
> struggle as a cat 4.
>
> Greg
>
> --- "Malcolm, Gary"
> wrote:
>
> > LOL
> >
> > That's just what I was saying last year... when my
> > racing age was 39.
> >
> > Now that I'm an old man I'm going to wallow around
> > like a pig in mud every
> > time I can enter a 40+ race. I really commiserate
> > with those who don't have
> > time to train as a 1/2 - oh wait, I was never a 1/2.
> > I've had the pleasure
> > of riding with those guys, and if somehow the skies
> > opened up and anointed
> > me with the upgrade points to qualify for their
> > races I'd cry myself to
> > sleep every night.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Gary Malcolm
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ty Lambert [mailto:gobeavs@comcast.net]
> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:19 AM
> > To: adcampbell46@earthlink.net; obra
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >
> >
> > I too would love to see a 35+.(At least for one more
> > year)
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Ty Lambert
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dave Campbell
> >
> > To: obra
> > Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:08 PM
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit
> > out there...
> >
> > VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with
> > most going 40 plus
> > Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that
> > Cherry Pie (and my guess
> > is most of the others that follow) is going Masters
> > 40 plus and the promoter
> > (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the
> > way to go.
> >
> > For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN
> > (although due to triathlon,
> > I personally only do a few and mainly for training)
> > and I can actually race
> > as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to
> > survive and I would assume
> > there are others that feel the same way...the
> > question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
> > like minded 35-39s like me?
> >
> > Anyone?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > DC
> > Dave Campbell
> > adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> >
> > EarthLink Revolves Around You.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Candi Murray

Richard is correct. There was a vote by the clubs two years ago at the
annual meeting to ask race organizers to keep masters at 40+. It was decided
that it would be STRONGLY encouraged but that masters other then 40+ could
be run it the race organizer wanted.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Richard Sweet
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:46 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

I thought it was a decision to track the 40+ for bar points only? and we as
promoters out there were allowed to have a master's category for anything
over 30+? I was there at the OBRA Meeting but can't remember exactly.

Example,

30+
35+
40+
etc, etc.

The state championships have a masters age category starting at 30-39.

Maybe Sal or Candi can help clear it all up. I know last year it was
confusing to the promoters on what was actually the rule, at least for some
of us.

As to changing the ruling, there are rules for that.

Richard
_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
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Greg Crane

Yea, I know what you mean. Perhaps there should just
be a Mast. 35-39 cat 1/2. Then all the "old" guys who
don't have the time to train like a cat 1/2 (but who
ARE cat 1/2's) can race slow and commiserate their
horrible fate together, thus leaving we 40+ cat 3/4
racers to ourselves.

Man, hearing to sad story of racers getting older just
makes me want to cry. It must be hard to get used to
winning all the time and then being upgraded beyond
the level of your ability. Makes me glad to just
struggle as a cat 4.

Greg

--- "Malcolm, Gary"
wrote:

> LOL
>
> That's just what I was saying last year... when my
> racing age was 39.
>
> Now that I'm an old man I'm going to wallow around
> like a pig in mud every
> time I can enter a 40+ race. I really commiserate
> with those who don't have
> time to train as a 1/2 - oh wait, I was never a 1/2.
> I've had the pleasure
> of riding with those guys, and if somehow the skies
> opened up and anointed
> me with the upgrade points to qualify for their
> races I'd cry myself to
> sleep every night.
>
> :-)
>
> Gary Malcolm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ty Lambert [mailto:gobeavs@comcast.net]
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:19 AM
> To: adcampbell46@earthlink.net; obra
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
> I too would love to see a 35+.(At least for one more
> year)
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ty Lambert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dave Campbell
>
> To: obra
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:08 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?
>
>
>
>
> Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit
> out there...
>
> VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with
> most going 40 plus
> Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that
> Cherry Pie (and my guess
> is most of the others that follow) is going Masters
> 40 plus and the promoter
> (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the
> way to go.
>
> For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN
> (although due to triathlon,
> I personally only do a few and mainly for training)
> and I can actually race
> as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to
> survive and I would assume
> there are others that feel the same way...the
> question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
> like minded 35-39s like me?
>
> Anyone?
>
> Thanks,
> DC
> Dave Campbell
> adcampbell46@earthlink.net
>
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

__________________________________________________
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Richard Sweet

I thought it was a decision to track the 40+ for bar points only? and we as promoters out there were allowed to have a master's category for anything over 30+? I was there at the OBRA Meeting but can't remember exactly.

Example,

30+
35+
40+
etc, etc.

The state championships have a masters age category starting at 30-39.

Maybe Sal or Candi can help clear it all up. I know last year it was confusing to the promoters on what was actually the rule, at least for some of us.

As to changing the ruling, there are rules for that.

Richard

Malcolm, Gary

LOL

That's just what I was saying last year... when my racing age was 39.

Now that I'm an old man I'm going to wallow around like a pig in mud every
time I can enter a 40+ race. I really commiserate with those who don't have
time to train as a 1/2 - oh wait, I was never a 1/2. I've had the pleasure
of riding with those guys, and if somehow the skies opened up and anointed
me with the upgrade points to qualify for their races I'd cry myself to
sleep every night.

:-)

Gary Malcolm

-----Original Message-----
From: Ty Lambert [mailto:gobeavs@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:19 AM
To: adcampbell46@earthlink.net; obra
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

I too would love to see a 35+.(At least for one more year)

Thanks.

Ty Lambert

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Campbell
To: obra
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:08 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter
(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_____

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ty Lambert

I too would love to see a 35+.(At least for one more year)

Thanks.

Ty Lambert
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Campbell
To: obra
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:08 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon, I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Gordon Cumming

Dave,

I feel that same way. At this point in life I do not have enough free time
to train as a competitive cat1/2. having raced masters 35+ in the Midwest
for 5 years many were former cat1/2 racers who had family and careers and
really liked the masters 35+.

Gordon



_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Dave Campbell
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:09 PM
To: obra
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess
is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter
(who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon,
I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race
as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume
there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH
like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

Mark J. Ginsberg

reading rules is fun.
We should all read rules.

David is right obra changed the default master age to 40, but it is up to each promoter to decide.

As for me, yes I am 36, so I had one nice year as a master 35, and then it was gone, I had a taste of the forbidden fruit, taken away, alas.

Mark Ginsberg

David Hart wrote: OBRA made the masters cat 40+, it was voted on.

On 12/28/06, Dave Campbell wrote:
Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon, I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

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Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
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David Hart

OBRA made the masters cat 40+, it was voted on.

On 12/28/06, Dave Campbell wrote:
>
> Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...
>
> VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
> Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my
> guess is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the
> promoter (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.
>
> For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to
> triathlon, I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can
> actually race as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and
> I would assume there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE
> THERE ENOUGH like minded 35-39s like me?
>
> Anyone?
>
> Thanks,
> DC
> Dave Campbell
> adcampbell46@earthlink.net
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>

Edward Kendrick Sr

Yes. It would be nice to have the 35+ category.

Most of the riders, who act their age, choose to ride cat 4 or 5. This is awkward, when there are 18 yr olds competing with you.

Did you know that a big chunk of the Arctic shelf broke off today?

Anyway, Feliz Ano Nuevo.

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Campbell
To: obra
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:08:39 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35 Plus?

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon, I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Dave Campbell

Just going to throw this totally self-interested bit out there...

VERY few races last yr had a Masters 35 plus, with most going 40 plus
Was this trend well-recieved by riders? I see that Cherry Pie (and my guess is most of the others that follow) is going Masters 40 plus and the promoter (who is well experienced!) assures me this is the way to go.

For ME at this point, the 35 plus races are FUN (although due to triathlon, I personally only do a few and mainly for training) and I can actually race as opposed to the Cat1/2 race which I just try to survive and I would assume there are others that feel the same way...the question is ARE THERE ENOUGH like minded 35-39s like me?

Anyone?

Thanks,
DC
Dave Campbell
adcampbell46@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.