Richard Hogan

Well what do the Women, Juniors, and 26 year old cat 4's think about this?

sorry just bored on new years

gschreckchat@comcast.net

I think we should have an algorithym that is so complicted that no one can figure it out. That way we can spend out energies determining who is eligible for a race instead of wasting it riding.

Why have a simple cut off when we could have a very complicated formula so five or six more people can attend a masters race rahter than race their category. :-)

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Greg Crane

> Hey we could sort of "prorate" the mast. cat. Say
> 35/36 is for cat 1/2's, 37/38 for cat 2/3's, 38/39 is
> for cat 3/4's. Unless it's a weekday race since this
> would favor the 1/2's or if it's a weekend race longer
> than 50 miles or a race with more than 2000 feet of
> elevation gain. In which case it would be a simple
> 35-39 cat 1/2 and 40+ all cats.
>
> What I would really like to see is a Greg Crane
> category (I call it a cateGregory). All the masters
> line up and I deselect the "sandbagers" like Shreck,
> Zimbleman, Steger, McCaffery, and anyone else faster
> than me. They then go race their race and I go win my
> race.
>
> If that doesn't work out how bout a 40+ and give the
> promoters some discretion.
>
> I vote for the cateGregory.
>
> Sorry if I sound like a smart-ass/dumb-ass, but not
> really.
>
> Greg
>
>
> --- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > How about you race your category and eventually get
> > older and race masters. Do not worry, it will come,
> > and then you will wonder why you cared.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: tioflaco@comcast.net (Gordon Cumming)
> >
> > > what about:
> > >
> > > 35+ open catagory
> > > 40+ 4/5
> > >
> > > Gordon
> > > -------------- Original message
> > ----------------------
> > > From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > > > Mark,
> > > >
> > > > I agree we always want an open masters, but I
> > can see some promoter
> > > > arguments that the older 1,2s can fit their
> > category while he still needs to
> > > > make a 'limited' masters group more 'accessible'
> > to promote attendance.
> > > > Don't get me wrong, doubling and tripling up
> > crits is awesome... I did it
> > > > myself at the state champs last summer because
> > the categories were not
> > > > considered in the masters events.
> > > >
> > > > What I really want is for everyone to have fun
> > and opportunity for placement
> > > > in their various categories and I think that
> > comes from keeping rider
> > > > strengths relatively even (at least for
> > non-elite riders). If an event has
> > > > enough attendance for the promoter to break up
> > the masters then I say more
> > > > power to her.
> > > >
> > > > And Schreck can race and kick butt in any darn
> > category he wants :-)
> > > >
> > > > Gary
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:50 PM
> > > > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net;
> > gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com;
> > > > rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks george that's is what I meant, thanks. I
> > meant no offense to any
> > > > category, we all race because we love it. bottom
> > line.
> > > > cheers
> > > > mark
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > > >To: "Malcolm, Gary" , "'mark duff'"
> > > > >, rideon1@hotmail.com, obra@list.obra.org
> > > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:45:35 +0000
> > > > >
> > > > >I do not think that Mark has a problem with
> > categories within Masters
> > > > >racing. I think his problem is when the only
> > Masters race is a 3/4/5 which
> > > >
> > > > >means that he cannot race Masters at all. I
> > think that if there is only
> > > > >one Masters race, it should be open to all
> > categories; however, and if
> > > > >there can be two Masters races divided
> > categories so much the better.
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >
> > > > >George Schreck
> > > > >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > > >(503) 502-0425
> > > > >
> > > > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > > > >From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > > > >
> > > > > > Mark,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I honestly hope you are missing the point. I
> > can't help but notice a bit
> > > >
> > > > >of
> > > > > > bitterness at the thought of lesser riders
> > having decent placings
> > > > >against
> > > > > > folks of their own caliber instead of
> > submitting to the 'dominators'. I
> > > > >also
> > > > > > strongly doubt open masters racing will ever
> > be abandoned for
> > > > >categorized
> > > > > > masters... it's really more of a welcome
> > addition.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Masters 3/4 or 4/5 is designed to allow
> > older racers an entry point into
> > > >
> > > > >the
> > > > > > sport, and not to let experienced racers
> > 'dominate' beginning gray
> > > > >beards. I
> > > > > > think these categories are typically well
> > attended and offer the
> > > > >opportunity
> > > > > > for the largest segment of Oregon riders to
> > participate in racing
> > > > >without
> > > > > > (how shall I put this kindly) getting their
> > socks blown off by
> > > > >sandbagging
> > > > > > high CATs looking for pack fodder.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Straight up 35+ or 40+ Masters allows all
> > the sandbaggers the law will
> > > > > > allow, and with open arms too... See you
> > there ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gary Malcolm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: mark duff
> > [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:40 AM
> > > > > > To: rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+
> > master cat3 or less races, like
> > > >
> > > > >we
> > > > > > started to see before they changed masters
> > racing to 40+. I was looking
> > > > > > forward to doing more masters racing last
> > year but didn't get to because
> > > >
> > > > >of
> > > > > > the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm
> > looking forward to getting to
> > > >
> > > > >do
> > > > > > more masters racing, but I'm also looking
> > forward to doubling up at the
> > > > > > crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2
> > race too. Promoters need to
> > > > > > remember not to penalize a master just cause
> > he can ride with the young
> > > > >guys
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and the promoters that like to do this cause
> > the have a ton of 3's and
> > > > >want
> > > > > > to dominate the master race, the really
> > aren't because the best masters
> > > > >are
> > > > > > not there...I just hope the promoters keep
> > it as masters 40 with out the
> > > > > > little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
> > > > > > cheers
> > > > > > Mark Duff
> > > > > > www.veloforma.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Luciano bailey"
> > > > > > >To: ,
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can
> > become almost overwhelming at
> > > > > > >times, the truth is at the big events
> > masters is an over thirty cat
> > > > >similar
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >to the twilight crit where an over forty
> > guy Kent Johnston beat all
> > > > >comers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >In the events where some masters doubled up
> > there
> === message truncated ===>
> _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
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Candi Murray

There are not different upgrade points for masters. To upgrade to 4 and 3
you can count any mass start race, but you cannot earn point to upgrade to
Cat 2 if you are racing masters unless you earn them in a Masters 3 field.

Candi

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Luciano bailey
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 11:55 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org; Gary Cornilles
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+

I wasn't aware there were different upgrade points for masters

----- Original Message -----

From: Gary Cornilles

To: obra@list.obra.org

Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 12:11 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+

Perhaps there are logistical issues and/or fewer participants to consider
but, why not use the same system for Master's road racing as Cross';
A(1,2's,elite 3's),B(3/4's),C(4/5's)? Set the age at either 35+ or 40+ and
let the skill level dictate the category. If there aren't enough racers to
support three categories just make two A(1,2,3) & B(3,4,5) or something like
that. It would seem with the demo numbers it should be no problem to
support at least two separate categories.

Master's races don't earn upgrade points (as far as I know) so it shouldn't
matter to someone if they are upgraded from B to A etc...since there are no
ramifications toward sanctioned upgrade, it wouldn't be difficult for the
race officials and promoters to weed out "sandbaggers" and keep the best
racers moving upwards. A couple of top 5 finishes in the lower category
would pretty much indicate you need to move up.

Doesn't Washington use this format for road races?
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obraorg

Luciano bailey

Are much easier is an understatement the masters here are as fast as any timing just about any event would show the races are just as fast with some pretty seasoned( is that the right word or is it salty) guys.
----- Original Message -----
From: mickwalsh1@comcast.net
To: gschreckchat@comcast.net ; Gordon Cumming ; Malcolm,Gary ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+

And if you feel you are not fast enough for 1/2 races, downgrade. Masters races aren't much easier then 1/2s, actually, I've won more 1/2 races than master races the past few years, as has Steve Holland.

How about you race your category and eventually get older and race masters. Do not worry, it will come, and then you will wonder why you cared.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: tioflaco@comcast.net (Gordon Cumming)

> what about:
>
> 35+ open catagory
> 40+ 4/5
>
> Gordon
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > Mark,
> >
> > I agree we always want an open masters, but I can see some promoter
> > arguments that the older 1,2s can fit their category while he still needs to
> > make a 'limited' masters group more 'accessible' to promote attendance.
> > Don't get me wrong, doubling and tripling up crits is awesome... I did it
> > myself at the state champs last summer because the categories were not
> > considered in the masters events.
> >
> > What I really want is for everyone to ha ve fun and opportunity for placement
> > in their various categories and I think that comes from keeping rider
> > strengths relatively even (at least for non-elite riders). If an event has
> > enough attendance for the promoter to break up the masters then I say more
> > power to her.
> >
> > And Schreck can race and kick butt in any darn category he wants :-)
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:50 PM
> > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com;
> > rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> >
> >
> > Thanks george that's is what I meant, thanks. I meant no offense to any
> > category, we all race because we love it. bottom lin e . > > cheers
> > mark
> >
> >
> > >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > >To: "Malcolm, Gary" , "'mark duff'"
> > >, rideon1@hotmail.com, obra@list.obra.org
> > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:45:35 +0000
> > >
> > >I do not think that Mark has a problem with categories within Masters
> > >racing. I think his problem is when the only Masters race is a 3/4/5 which
> >
> > >means that he cannot race Masters at all. I think that if there is only
> > >one Masters race, it should be open to all categories; however, and if
> > >there can be two Masters races divided categories so much the better.
> > >
> > >--
> > >
> > >George Schreck
> > >gsc hr eck cha t@comcast.net
> > >(503) 502-0425
> > >
> > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > >From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > >
> > > > Mark,
> > > >
> > > > I honestly hope you are missing the point. I can't help but notice a bit
> >
> > >of
> > > > bitterness at the thought of lesser riders having decent placings
> > >against
> > > > folks of their own caliber instead of submitting to the 'dominators'. I
> > >also
> > > > strongly doubt open masters racing will ever be abandoned for
> > >categorized
> > > > masters... it's really more of a welcome addition.
> > > >
> > > > Masters 3/4 or 4/5 is designed to allow older racers an entry point into
> >
> > &g t;th e
> > > > sport, and not to let experienced racers 'dominate' beginning gray
> > >beards. I
> > > > think these categories are typically well attended and offer the
> > >opportunity
> > > > for the largest segment of Oregon riders to participate in racing
> > >without
> > > > (how shall I put this kindly) getting their socks blown off by
> > >sandbagging
> > > > high CATs looking for pack fodder.
> > > >
> > > > Straight up 35+ or 40+ Masters allows all the sandbaggers the law will
> > > > allow, and with open arms too... See you there ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gary Malcolm
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mark duff [ma ilto: trackd aze@hotmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:40 AM
> > > > To: rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+ master cat3 or less races, like
> >
> > >we
> > > > started to see before they changed masters racing to 40+. I was looking
> > > > forward to doing more masters racing last year but didn't get to because
> >
> > >of
> > > > the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm looking forward to getting to
> >
> > >do
> > > > more masters racing, but I'm also looking forward to doubling up at the
> > > > crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2 race too. Promoters need to
> > > > remember not to p enaliz e a mas ter just cause he can ride with the young
> > >guys
> > > >
> > > > and the promoters that like to do this cause the have a ton of 3's and
> > >want
> > > > to dominate the master race, the really aren't because the best masters
> > >are
> > > > not there...I just hope the promoters keep it as masters 40 with out the
> > > > little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
> > > > cheers
> > > > Mark Duff
> > > > www.veloforma.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Luciano bailey"
> > > > >To: ,
> > > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
> > > > >
> > > > >Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can become almost overwhelming at
& gt; ; > > > >times, the truth is at the big events masters is an over thirty cat
> > >similar
> > > >
> > > > >to the twilight crit where an over forty guy Kent Johnston beat all
> > >comers.
> > > >
> > > > >In the events where some masters doubled up there performance in a 1/2
> > >may
> > > > >have been compromised due to the earlier ride in the masters. I think
> > >these
> > > >
> > > > >cats serve the borderline riders better than some of the super old guys
> >
> > >so
> > > > >keeping them certainly serves the majority. Just my 2 cents
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Candi Murray
> > > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 2 9, 200 6 9: 17 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If someone wants to propose this, the annual meeting is the first week
> > > > >of
> > > > > February and it could be voted on again.
> > > > > Candi
> > > > >
> > > > > Ps no the people voting on it were mostly under 40
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > > > >[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > > > > Behalf Of David Marsh
> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:26 AM
> > > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >
> > > > > NCNC A uses mast ers 35 + at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to
> > > > >see
> > > > > it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it
> > >up
> > > >
> > > > >for
> > > > > a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who
> > > > >voted
> > > > > for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________ ______ _______ ______ _____________
> > > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >OBRA mailing list
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> > > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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Luciano bailey

I wasn't aware there were different upgrade points for masters
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Cornilles
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 12:11 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+

Perhaps there are logistical issues and/or fewer participants to consider but, why not use the same system for Master's road racing as Cross'; A(1,2's,elite 3's),B(3/4's),C(4/5's)? Set the age at either 35+ or 40+ and let the skill level dictate the category. If there aren't enough racers to support three categories just make two A(1,2,3) & B(3,4,5) or something like that. It would seem with the demo numbers it should be no problem to support at least two separate categories.

Master's races don't earn upgrade points (as far as I know) so it shouldn't matter to someone if they are upgraded from B to A etc...since there are no ramifications toward sanctioned upgrade, it wouldn't be difficult for the race officials and promoters to weed out "sandbaggers" and keep the best racers moving upwards. A couple of top 5 finishes in the lower category would pretty much indicate you need to move up.

Doesn't Washington use this format for road races?
_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Gary Cornilles

Perhaps there are logistical issues and/or fewer participants to consider but, why not use the same system for Master's road racing as Cross'; A(1,2's,elite 3's),B(3/4's),C(4/5's)? Set the age at either 35+ or 40+ and let the skill level dictate the category. If there aren't enough racers to support three categories just make two A(1,2,3) & B(3,4,5) or something like that. It would seem with the demo numbers it should be no problem to support at least two separate categories.

Master's races don't earn upgrade points (as far as I know) so it shouldn't matter to someone if they are upgraded from B to A etc...since there are no ramifications toward sanctioned upgrade, it wouldn't be difficult for the race officials and promoters to weed out "sandbaggers" and keep the best racers moving upwards. A couple of top 5 finishes in the lower category would pretty much indicate you need to move up.

Doesn't Washington use this format for road races?

mickwalsh1@comcast.net

And if you feel you are not fast enough for 1/2 races, downgrade. Masters races aren't much easier then 1/2s, actually, I've won more 1/2 races than master races the past few years, as has Steve Holland.

How about you race your category and eventually get older and race masters. Do not worry, it will come, and then you will wonder why you cared.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: tioflaco@comcast.net (Gordon Cumming)

> what about:
>
> 35+ open catagory
> 40+ 4/5
>
> Gordon
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > Mark,
> >
> > I agree we always want an open masters, but I can see some promoter
> > arguments that the older 1,2s can fit their category while he still needs to
> > make a 'limited' masters group more 'accessible' to promote attendance.
> > Don't get me wrong, doubling and tripling up crits is awesome... I did it
> > myself at the state champs last summer because the categories were not
> > considered in the masters events.
> >
> > What I really want is for everyone to ha ve fun and opportunity for placement
> > in their various categories and I think that comes from keeping rider
> > strengths relatively even (at least for non-elite riders). If an event has
> > enough attendance for the promoter to break up the masters then I say more
> > power to her.
> >
> > And Schreck can race and kick butt in any darn category he wants :-)
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:50 PM
> > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com;
> > rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> >
> >
> > Thanks george that's is what I meant, thanks. I meant no offense to any
> > category, we all race because we love it. bottom line .
> > cheers
> > mark
> >
> >
> > >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > >To: "Malcolm, Gary" , "'mark duff'"
> > >, rideon1@hotmail.com, obra@list.obra.org
> > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:45:35 +0000
> > >
> > >I do not think that Mark has a problem with categories within Masters
> > >racing. I think his problem is when the only Masters race is a 3/4/5 which
> >
> > >means that he cannot race Masters at all. I think that if there is only
> > >one Masters race, it should be open to all categories; however, and if
> > >there can be two Masters races divided categories so much the better.
> > >
> > >--
> > >
> > >George Schreck
> > >gschr eckcha t@comcast.net
> > >(503) 502-0425
> > >
> > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > >From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > >
> > > > Mark,
> > > >
> > > > I honestly hope you are missing the point. I can't help but notice a bit
> >
> > >of
> > > > bitterness at the thought of lesser riders having decent placings
> > >against
> > > > folks of their own caliber instead of submitting to the 'dominators'. I
> > >also
> > > > strongly doubt open masters racing will ever be abandoned for
> > >categorized
> > > > masters... it's really more of a welcome addition.
> > > >
> > > > Masters 3/4 or 4/5 is designed to allow older racers an entry point into
> >
> > >th e
> > > > sport, and not to let experienced racers 'dominate' beginning gray
> > >beards. I
> > > > think these categories are typically well attended and offer the
> > >opportunity
> > > > for the largest segment of Oregon riders to participate in racing
> > >without
> > > > (how shall I put this kindly) getting their socks blown off by
> > >sandbagging
> > > > high CATs looking for pack fodder.
> > > >
> > > > Straight up 35+ or 40+ Masters allows all the sandbaggers the law will
> > > > allow, and with open arms too... See you there ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gary Malcolm
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mark duff [mailto: trackd aze@hotmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:40 AM
> > > > To: rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+ master cat3 or less races, like
> >
> > >we
> > > > started to see before they changed masters racing to 40+. I was looking
> > > > forward to doing more masters racing last year but didn't get to because
> >
> > >of
> > > > the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm looking forward to getting to
> >
> > >do
> > > > more masters racing, but I'm also looking forward to doubling up at the
> > > > crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2 race too. Promoters need to
> > > > remember not to penalize a mas ter just cause he can ride with the young
> > >guys
> > > >
> > > > and the promoters that like to do this cause the have a ton of 3's and
> > >want
> > > > to dominate the master race, the really aren't because the best masters
> > >are
> > > > not there...I just hope the promoters keep it as masters 40 with out the
> > > > little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
> > > > cheers
> > > > Mark Duff
> > > > www.veloforma.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Luciano bailey"
> > > > >To: ,
> > > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
> > > > >
> > > > >Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can become almost overwhelming at
> ; > > > >times, the truth is at the big events masters is an over thirty cat
> > >similar
> > > >
> > > > >to the twilight crit where an over forty guy Kent Johnston beat all
> > >comers.
> > > >
> > > > >In the events where some masters doubled up there performance in a 1/2
> > >may
> > > > >have been compromised due to the earlier ride in the masters. I think
> > >these
> > > >
> > > > >cats serve the borderline riders better than some of the super old guys
> >
> > >so
> > > > >keeping them certainly serves the majority. Just my 2 cents
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Candi Murray
> > > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9: 17 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If someone wants to propose this, the annual meeting is the first week
> > > > >of
> > > > > February and it could be voted on again.
> > > > > Candi
> > > > >
> > > > > Ps no the people voting on it were mostly under 40
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > > > >[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > > > > Behalf Of David Marsh
> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:26 AM
> > > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >
> > > > > NCNCA uses mast ers 35 + at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to
> > > > >see
> > > > > it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it
> > >up
> > > >
> > > > >for
> > > > > a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who
> > > > >voted
> > > > > for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ____________________________ ______ _____________
> > > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page
> > > > www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
> ; > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=e
> > n-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mail ing li st
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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>
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Bill Randleman

How about based on body fat then skill ranking? :))

Cat 2 70 - 80% LBM class

Top 5 finishers plus random screening have to pass skin fold test.

Bill Randleman
wrandleman@mac.com

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Greg Crane
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 3:56 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+

Hey we could sort of "prorate" the mast. cat. Say
35/36 is for cat 1/2's, 37/38 for cat 2/3's, 38/39 is
for cat 3/4's. Unless it's a weekday race since this
would favor the 1/2's or if it's a weekend race longer
than 50 miles or a race with more than 2000 feet of
elevation gain. In which case it would be a simple
35-39 cat 1/2 and 40+ all cats.

What I would really like to see is a Greg Crane
category (I call it a cateGregory). All the masters
line up and I deselect the "sandbagers" like Shreck,
Zimbleman, Steger, McCaffery, and anyone else faster
than me. They then go race their race and I go win my
race.

If that doesn't work out how bout a 40+ and give the
promoters some discretion.

I vote for the cateGregory.

Sorry if I sound like a smart-ass/dumb-ass, but not
really.

Greg

--- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:

> How about you race your category and eventually get
> older and race masters. Do not worry, it will come,
> and then you will wonder why you cared.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: tioflaco@comcast.net (Gordon Cumming)
>
> > what about:
> >
> > 35+ open catagory
> > 40+ 4/5
> >
> > Gordon
> > -------------- Original message
> ----------------------
> > From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > > Mark,
> > >
> > > I agree we always want an open masters, but I
> can see some promoter
> > > arguments that the older 1,2s can fit their
> category while he still needs to
> > > make a 'limited' masters group more 'accessible'
> to promote attendance.
> > > Don't get me wrong, doubling and tripling up
> crits is awesome... I did it
> > > myself at the state champs last summer because
> the categories were not
> > > considered in the masters events.
> > >
> > > What I really want is for everyone to have fun
> and opportunity for placement
> > > in their various categories and I think that
> comes from keeping rider
> > > strengths relatively even (at least for
> non-elite riders). If an event has
> > > enough attendance for the promoter to break up
> the masters then I say more
> > > power to her.
> > >
> > > And Schreck can race and kick butt in any darn
> category he wants :-)
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:50 PM
> > > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net;
> gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com;
> > > rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks george that's is what I meant, thanks. I
> meant no offense to any
> > > category, we all race because we love it. bottom
> line.
> > > cheers
> > > mark
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > >To: "Malcolm, Gary" , "'mark duff'"
> > > >, rideon1@hotmail.com, obra@list.obra.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:45:35 +0000
> > > >
> > > >I do not think that Mark has a problem with
> categories within Masters
> > > >racing. I think his problem is when the only
> Masters race is a 3/4/5 which
> > >
> > > >means that he cannot race Masters at all. I
> think that if there is only
> > > >one Masters race, it should be open to all
> categories; however, and if
> > > >there can be two Masters races divided
> categories so much the better.
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >
> > > >George Schreck
> > > >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > >(503) 502-0425
> > > >
> > > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > > >From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > > >
> > > > > Mark,
> > > > >
> > > > > I honestly hope you are missing the point. I
> can't help but notice a bit
> > >
> > > >of
> > > > > bitterness at the thought of lesser riders
> having decent placings
> > > >against
> > > > > folks of their own caliber instead of
> submitting to the 'dominators'. I
> > > >also
> > > > > strongly doubt open masters racing will ever
> be abandoned for
> > > >categorized
> > > > > masters... it's really more of a welcome
> addition.
> > > > >
> > > > > Masters 3/4 or 4/5 is designed to allow
> older racers an entry point into
> > >
> > > >the
> > > > > sport, and not to let experienced racers
> 'dominate' beginning gray
> > > >beards. I
> > > > > think these categories are typically well
> attended and offer the
> > > >opportunity
> > > > > for the largest segment of Oregon riders to
> participate in racing
> > > >without
> > > > > (how shall I put this kindly) getting their
> socks blown off by
> > > >sandbagging
> > > > > high CATs looking for pack fodder.
> > > > >
> > > > > Straight up 35+ or 40+ Masters allows all
> the sandbaggers the law will
> > > > > allow, and with open arms too... See you
> there ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Gary Malcolm
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: mark duff
> [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:40 AM
> > > > > To: rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+
> master cat3 or less races, like
> > >
> > > >we
> > > > > started to see before they changed masters
> racing to 40+. I was looking
> > > > > forward to doing more masters racing last
> year but didn't get to because
> > >
> > > >of
> > > > > the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm
> looking forward to getting to
> > >
> > > >do
> > > > > more masters racing, but I'm also looking
> forward to doubling up at the
> > > > > crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2
> race too. Promoters need to
> > > > > remember not to penalize a master just cause
> he can ride with the young
> > > >guys
> > > > >
> > > > > and the promoters that like to do this cause
> the have a ton of 3's and
> > > >want
> > > > > to dominate the master race, the really
> aren't because the best masters
> > > >are
> > > > > not there...I just hope the promoters keep
> it as masters 40 with out the
> > > > > little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
> > > > > cheers
> > > > > Mark Duff
> > > > > www.veloforma.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Luciano bailey"
> > > > > >To: ,
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can
> become almost overwhelming at
> > > > > >times, the truth is at the big events
> masters is an over thirty cat
> > > >similar
> > > > >
> > > > > >to the twilight crit where an over forty
> guy Kent Johnston beat all
> > > >comers.
> > > > >
> > > > > >In the events where some masters doubled up
> there
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

__________________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Greg Crane

Hey we could sort of "prorate" the mast. cat. Say
35/36 is for cat 1/2's, 37/38 for cat 2/3's, 38/39 is
for cat 3/4's. Unless it's a weekday race since this
would favor the 1/2's or if it's a weekend race longer
than 50 miles or a race with more than 2000 feet of
elevation gain. In which case it would be a simple
35-39 cat 1/2 and 40+ all cats.

What I would really like to see is a Greg Crane
category (I call it a cateGregory). All the masters
line up and I deselect the "sandbagers" like Shreck,
Zimbleman, Steger, McCaffery, and anyone else faster
than me. They then go race their race and I go win my
race.

If that doesn't work out how bout a 40+ and give the
promoters some discretion.

I vote for the cateGregory.

Sorry if I sound like a smart-ass/dumb-ass, but not
really.

Greg

--- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:

> How about you race your category and eventually get
> older and race masters. Do not worry, it will come,
> and then you will wonder why you cared.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: tioflaco@comcast.net (Gordon Cumming)
>
> > what about:
> >
> > 35+ open catagory
> > 40+ 4/5
> >
> > Gordon
> > -------------- Original message
> ----------------------
> > From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > > Mark,
> > >
> > > I agree we always want an open masters, but I
> can see some promoter
> > > arguments that the older 1,2s can fit their
> category while he still needs to
> > > make a 'limited' masters group more 'accessible'
> to promote attendance.
> > > Don't get me wrong, doubling and tripling up
> crits is awesome... I did it
> > > myself at the state champs last summer because
> the categories were not
> > > considered in the masters events.
> > >
> > > What I really want is for everyone to have fun
> and opportunity for placement
> > > in their various categories and I think that
> comes from keeping rider
> > > strengths relatively even (at least for
> non-elite riders). If an event has
> > > enough attendance for the promoter to break up
> the masters then I say more
> > > power to her.
> > >
> > > And Schreck can race and kick butt in any darn
> category he wants :-)
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:50 PM
> > > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net;
> gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com;
> > > rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks george that's is what I meant, thanks. I
> meant no offense to any
> > > category, we all race because we love it. bottom
> line.
> > > cheers
> > > mark
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > >To: "Malcolm, Gary" , "'mark duff'"
> > > >, rideon1@hotmail.com, obra@list.obra.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:45:35 +0000
> > > >
> > > >I do not think that Mark has a problem with
> categories within Masters
> > > >racing. I think his problem is when the only
> Masters race is a 3/4/5 which
> > >
> > > >means that he cannot race Masters at all. I
> think that if there is only
> > > >one Masters race, it should be open to all
> categories; however, and if
> > > >there can be two Masters races divided
> categories so much the better.
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >
> > > >George Schreck
> > > >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > >(503) 502-0425
> > > >
> > > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > > >From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > > >
> > > > > Mark,
> > > > >
> > > > > I honestly hope you are missing the point. I
> can't help but notice a bit
> > >
> > > >of
> > > > > bitterness at the thought of lesser riders
> having decent placings
> > > >against
> > > > > folks of their own caliber instead of
> submitting to the 'dominators'. I
> > > >also
> > > > > strongly doubt open masters racing will ever
> be abandoned for
> > > >categorized
> > > > > masters... it's really more of a welcome
> addition.
> > > > >
> > > > > Masters 3/4 or 4/5 is designed to allow
> older racers an entry point into
> > >
> > > >the
> > > > > sport, and not to let experienced racers
> 'dominate' beginning gray
> > > >beards. I
> > > > > think these categories are typically well
> attended and offer the
> > > >opportunity
> > > > > for the largest segment of Oregon riders to
> participate in racing
> > > >without
> > > > > (how shall I put this kindly) getting their
> socks blown off by
> > > >sandbagging
> > > > > high CATs looking for pack fodder.
> > > > >
> > > > > Straight up 35+ or 40+ Masters allows all
> the sandbaggers the law will
> > > > > allow, and with open arms too... See you
> there ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Gary Malcolm
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: mark duff
> [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:40 AM
> > > > > To: rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+
> master cat3 or less races, like
> > >
> > > >we
> > > > > started to see before they changed masters
> racing to 40+. I was looking
> > > > > forward to doing more masters racing last
> year but didn't get to because
> > >
> > > >of
> > > > > the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm
> looking forward to getting to
> > >
> > > >do
> > > > > more masters racing, but I'm also looking
> forward to doubling up at the
> > > > > crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2
> race too. Promoters need to
> > > > > remember not to penalize a master just cause
> he can ride with the young
> > > >guys
> > > > >
> > > > > and the promoters that like to do this cause
> the have a ton of 3's and
> > > >want
> > > > > to dominate the master race, the really
> aren't because the best masters
> > > >are
> > > > > not there...I just hope the promoters keep
> it as masters 40 with out the
> > > > > little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
> > > > > cheers
> > > > > Mark Duff
> > > > > www.veloforma.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Luciano bailey"
> > > > > >To: ,
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can
> become almost overwhelming at
> > > > > >times, the truth is at the big events
> masters is an over thirty cat
> > > >similar
> > > > >
> > > > > >to the twilight crit where an over forty
> guy Kent Johnston beat all
> > > >comers.
> > > > >
> > > > > >In the events where some masters doubled up
> there
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

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gschreckchat@comcast.net

How about you race your category and eventually get older and race masters. Do not worry, it will come, and then you will wonder why you cared.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: tioflaco@comcast.net (Gordon Cumming)

> what about:
>
> 35+ open catagory
> 40+ 4/5
>
> Gordon
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > Mark,
> >
> > I agree we always want an open masters, but I can see some promoter
> > arguments that the older 1,2s can fit their category while he still needs to
> > make a 'limited' masters group more 'accessible' to promote attendance.
> > Don't get me wrong, doubling and tripling up crits is awesome... I did it
> > myself at the state champs last summer because the categories were not
> > considered in the masters events.
> >
> > What I really want is for everyone to have fun and opportunity for placement
> > in their various categories and I think that comes from keeping rider
> > strengths relatively even (at least for non-elite riders). If an event has
> > enough attendance for the promoter to break up the masters then I say more
> > power to her.
> >
> > And Schreck can race and kick butt in any darn category he wants :-)
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:50 PM
> > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com;
> > rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> >
> >
> > Thanks george that's is what I meant, thanks. I meant no offense to any
> > category, we all race because we love it. bottom line.
> > cheers
> > mark
> >
> >
> > >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > >To: "Malcolm, Gary" , "'mark duff'"
> > >, rideon1@hotmail.com, obra@list.obra.org
> > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:45:35 +0000
> > >
> > >I do not think that Mark has a problem with categories within Masters
> > >racing. I think his problem is when the only Masters race is a 3/4/5 which
> >
> > >means that he cannot race Masters at all. I think that if there is only
> > >one Masters race, it should be open to all categories; however, and if
> > >there can be two Masters races divided categories so much the better.
> > >
> > >--
> > >
> > >George Schreck
> > >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > >(503) 502-0425
> > >
> > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > >From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > >
> > > > Mark,
> > > >
> > > > I honestly hope you are missing the point. I can't help but notice a bit
> >
> > >of
> > > > bitterness at the thought of lesser riders having decent placings
> > >against
> > > > folks of their own caliber instead of submitting to the 'dominators'. I
> > >also
> > > > strongly doubt open masters racing will ever be abandoned for
> > >categorized
> > > > masters... it's really more of a welcome addition.
> > > >
> > > > Masters 3/4 or 4/5 is designed to allow older racers an entry point into
> >
> > >the
> > > > sport, and not to let experienced racers 'dominate' beginning gray
> > >beards. I
> > > > think these categories are typically well attended and offer the
> > >opportunity
> > > > for the largest segment of Oregon riders to participate in racing
> > >without
> > > > (how shall I put this kindly) getting their socks blown off by
> > >sandbagging
> > > > high CATs looking for pack fodder.
> > > >
> > > > Straight up 35+ or 40+ Masters allows all the sandbaggers the law will
> > > > allow, and with open arms too... See you there ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gary Malcolm
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:40 AM
> > > > To: rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+ master cat3 or less races, like
> >
> > >we
> > > > started to see before they changed masters racing to 40+. I was looking
> > > > forward to doing more masters racing last year but didn't get to because
> >
> > >of
> > > > the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm looking forward to getting to
> >
> > >do
> > > > more masters racing, but I'm also looking forward to doubling up at the
> > > > crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2 race too. Promoters need to
> > > > remember not to penalize a master just cause he can ride with the young
> > >guys
> > > >
> > > > and the promoters that like to do this cause the have a ton of 3's and
> > >want
> > > > to dominate the master race, the really aren't because the best masters
> > >are
> > > > not there...I just hope the promoters keep it as masters 40 with out the
> > > > little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
> > > > cheers
> > > > Mark Duff
> > > > www.veloforma.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Luciano bailey"
> > > > >To: ,
> > > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
> > > > >
> > > > >Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can become almost overwhelming at
> > > > >times, the truth is at the big events masters is an over thirty cat
> > >similar
> > > >
> > > > >to the twilight crit where an over forty guy Kent Johnston beat all
> > >comers.
> > > >
> > > > >In the events where some masters doubled up there performance in a 1/2
> > >may
> > > > >have been compromised due to the earlier ride in the masters. I think
> > >these
> > > >
> > > > >cats serve the borderline riders better than some of the super old guys
> >
> > >so
> > > > >keeping them certainly serves the majority. Just my 2 cents
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Candi Murray
> > > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:17 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If someone wants to propose this, the annual meeting is the first week
> > > > >of
> > > > > February and it could be voted on again.
> > > > > Candi
> > > > >
> > > > > Ps no the people voting on it were mostly under 40
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > > > >[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > > > > Behalf Of David Marsh
> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:26 AM
> > > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > > >
> > > > > NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to
> > > > >see
> > > > > it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it
> > >up
> > > >
> > > > >for
> > > > > a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who
> > > > >voted
> > > > > for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page
> > > > www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=e
> > n-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Gordon Cumming

what about:

35+ open catagory
40+ 4/5

Gordon
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> Mark,
>
> I agree we always want an open masters, but I can see some promoter
> arguments that the older 1,2s can fit their category while he still needs to
> make a 'limited' masters group more 'accessible' to promote attendance.
> Don't get me wrong, doubling and tripling up crits is awesome... I did it
> myself at the state champs last summer because the categories were not
> considered in the masters events.
>
> What I really want is for everyone to have fun and opportunity for placement
> in their various categories and I think that comes from keeping rider
> strengths relatively even (at least for non-elite riders). If an event has
> enough attendance for the promoter to break up the masters then I say more
> power to her.
>
> And Schreck can race and kick butt in any darn category he wants :-)
>
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:50 PM
> To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com;
> rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
>
>
> Thanks george that's is what I meant, thanks. I meant no offense to any
> category, we all race because we love it. bottom line.
> cheers
> mark
>
>
> >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >To: "Malcolm, Gary" , "'mark duff'"
> >, rideon1@hotmail.com, obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:45:35 +0000
> >
> >I do not think that Mark has a problem with categories within Masters
> >racing. I think his problem is when the only Masters race is a 3/4/5 which
>
> >means that he cannot race Masters at all. I think that if there is only
> >one Masters race, it should be open to all categories; however, and if
> >there can be two Masters races divided categories so much the better.
> >
> >--
> >
> >George Schreck
> >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >(503) 502-0425
> >
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> >
> > > Mark,
> > >
> > > I honestly hope you are missing the point. I can't help but notice a bit
>
> >of
> > > bitterness at the thought of lesser riders having decent placings
> >against
> > > folks of their own caliber instead of submitting to the 'dominators'. I
> >also
> > > strongly doubt open masters racing will ever be abandoned for
> >categorized
> > > masters... it's really more of a welcome addition.
> > >
> > > Masters 3/4 or 4/5 is designed to allow older racers an entry point into
>
> >the
> > > sport, and not to let experienced racers 'dominate' beginning gray
> >beards. I
> > > think these categories are typically well attended and offer the
> >opportunity
> > > for the largest segment of Oregon riders to participate in racing
> >without
> > > (how shall I put this kindly) getting their socks blown off by
> >sandbagging
> > > high CATs looking for pack fodder.
> > >
> > > Straight up 35+ or 40+ Masters allows all the sandbaggers the law will
> > > allow, and with open arms too... See you there ;-)
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > > Gary Malcolm
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:40 AM
> > > To: rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >
> > >
> > > Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+ master cat3 or less races, like
>
> >we
> > > started to see before they changed masters racing to 40+. I was looking
> > > forward to doing more masters racing last year but didn't get to because
>
> >of
> > > the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm looking forward to getting to
>
> >do
> > > more masters racing, but I'm also looking forward to doubling up at the
> > > crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2 race too. Promoters need to
> > > remember not to penalize a master just cause he can ride with the young
> >guys
> > >
> > > and the promoters that like to do this cause the have a ton of 3's and
> >want
> > > to dominate the master race, the really aren't because the best masters
> >are
> > > not there...I just hope the promoters keep it as masters 40 with out the
> > > little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
> > > cheers
> > > Mark Duff
> > > www.veloforma.com
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Luciano bailey"
> > > >To: ,
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
> > > >
> > > >Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can become almost overwhelming at
> > > >times, the truth is at the big events masters is an over thirty cat
> >similar
> > >
> > > >to the twilight crit where an over forty guy Kent Johnston beat all
> >comers.
> > >
> > > >In the events where some masters doubled up there performance in a 1/2
> >may
> > > >have been compromised due to the earlier ride in the masters. I think
> >these
> > >
> > > >cats serve the borderline riders better than some of the super old guys
>
> >so
> > > >keeping them certainly serves the majority. Just my 2 cents
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Candi Murray
> > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:17 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If someone wants to propose this, the annual meeting is the first week
> > > >of
> > > > February and it could be voted on again.
> > > > Candi
> > > >
> > > > Ps no the people voting on it were mostly under 40
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > > >[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > > > Behalf Of David Marsh
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:26 AM
> > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > > >
> > > > NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to
> > > >see
> > > > it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it
> >up
> > >
> > > >for
> > > > a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who
> > > >voted
> > > > for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page
> > > www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
> http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=e
> n-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG
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> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Malcolm, Gary

Mark,

I agree we always want an open masters, but I can see some promoter
arguments that the older 1,2s can fit their category while he still needs to
make a 'limited' masters group more 'accessible' to promote attendance.
Don't get me wrong, doubling and tripling up crits is awesome... I did it
myself at the state champs last summer because the categories were not
considered in the masters events.

What I really want is for everyone to have fun and opportunity for placement
in their various categories and I think that comes from keeping rider
strengths relatively even (at least for non-elite riders). If an event has
enough attendance for the promoter to break up the masters then I say more
power to her.

And Schreck can race and kick butt in any darn category he wants :-)

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:50 PM
To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; gmalcolm@professionalcredit.com;
rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+

Thanks george that's is what I meant, thanks. I meant no offense to any
category, we all race because we love it. bottom line.
cheers
mark

>From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>To: "Malcolm, Gary" , "'mark duff'"
>, rideon1@hotmail.com, obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:45:35 +0000
>
>I do not think that Mark has a problem with categories within Masters
>racing. I think his problem is when the only Masters race is a 3/4/5 which

>means that he cannot race Masters at all. I think that if there is only
>one Masters race, it should be open to all categories; however, and if
>there can be two Masters races divided categories so much the better.
>
>--
>
>George Schreck
>gschreckchat@comcast.net
>(503) 502-0425
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: "Malcolm, Gary"
>
> > Mark,
> >
> > I honestly hope you are missing the point. I can't help but notice a bit

>of
> > bitterness at the thought of lesser riders having decent placings
>against
> > folks of their own caliber instead of submitting to the 'dominators'. I
>also
> > strongly doubt open masters racing will ever be abandoned for
>categorized
> > masters... it's really more of a welcome addition.
> >
> > Masters 3/4 or 4/5 is designed to allow older racers an entry point into

>the
> > sport, and not to let experienced racers 'dominate' beginning gray
>beards. I
> > think these categories are typically well attended and offer the
>opportunity
> > for the largest segment of Oregon riders to participate in racing
>without
> > (how shall I put this kindly) getting their socks blown off by
>sandbagging
> > high CATs looking for pack fodder.
> >
> > Straight up 35+ or 40+ Masters allows all the sandbaggers the law will
> > allow, and with open arms too... See you there ;-)
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> >
> > Gary Malcolm
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:40 AM
> > To: rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> >
> >
> > Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+ master cat3 or less races, like

>we
> > started to see before they changed masters racing to 40+. I was looking
> > forward to doing more masters racing last year but didn't get to because

>of
> > the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm looking forward to getting to

>do
> > more masters racing, but I'm also looking forward to doubling up at the
> > crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2 race too. Promoters need to
> > remember not to penalize a master just cause he can ride with the young
>guys
> >
> > and the promoters that like to do this cause the have a ton of 3's and
>want
> > to dominate the master race, the really aren't because the best masters
>are
> > not there...I just hope the promoters keep it as masters 40 with out the
> > little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
> > cheers
> > Mark Duff
> > www.veloforma.com
> >
> >
> > >From: "Luciano bailey"
> > >To: ,
> > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
> > >
> > >Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can become almost overwhelming at
> > >times, the truth is at the big events masters is an over thirty cat
>similar
> >
> > >to the twilight crit where an over forty guy Kent Johnston beat all
>comers.
> >
> > >In the events where some masters doubled up there performance in a 1/2
>may
> > >have been compromised due to the earlier ride in the masters. I think
>these
> >
> > >cats serve the borderline riders better than some of the super old guys

>so
> > >keeping them certainly serves the majority. Just my 2 cents
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Candi Murray
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:17 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >
> > >
> > > If someone wants to propose this, the annual meeting is the first week
> > >of
> > > February and it could be voted on again.
> > > Candi
> > >
> > > Ps no the people voting on it were mostly under 40
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > >[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > > Behalf Of David Marsh
> > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:26 AM
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >
> > > NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to
> > >see
> > > it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it
>up
> >
> > >for
> > > a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who
> > >voted
> > > for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > Unsubscribe:
> > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > Unsubscribe:
> > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >OBRA mailing list
> > >obra@list.obra.org
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page
> > www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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mark duff

Thanks george that's is what I meant, thanks. I meant no offense to any
category, we all race because we love it. bottom line.
cheers
mark

>From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>To: "Malcolm, Gary" , "'mark duff'"
>, rideon1@hotmail.com, obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:45:35 +0000
>
>I do not think that Mark has a problem with categories within Masters
>racing. I think his problem is when the only Masters race is a 3/4/5 which
>means that he cannot race Masters at all. I think that if there is only
>one Masters race, it should be open to all categories; however, and if
>there can be two Masters races divided categories so much the better.
>
>--
>
>George Schreck
>gschreckchat@comcast.net
>(503) 502-0425
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: "Malcolm, Gary"
>
> > Mark,
> >
> > I honestly hope you are missing the point. I can't help but notice a bit
>of
> > bitterness at the thought of lesser riders having decent placings
>against
> > folks of their own caliber instead of submitting to the 'dominators'. I
>also
> > strongly doubt open masters racing will ever be abandoned for
>categorized
> > masters... it's really more of a welcome addition.
> >
> > Masters 3/4 or 4/5 is designed to allow older racers an entry point into
>the
> > sport, and not to let experienced racers 'dominate' beginning gray
>beards. I
> > think these categories are typically well attended and offer the
>opportunity
> > for the largest segment of Oregon riders to participate in racing
>without
> > (how shall I put this kindly) getting their socks blown off by
>sandbagging
> > high CATs looking for pack fodder.
> >
> > Straight up 35+ or 40+ Masters allows all the sandbaggers the law will
> > allow, and with open arms too... See you there ;-)
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> >
> > Gary Malcolm
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:40 AM
> > To: rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> >
> >
> > Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+ master cat3 or less races, like
>we
> > started to see before they changed masters racing to 40+. I was looking
> > forward to doing more masters racing last year but didn't get to because
>of
> > the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm looking forward to getting to
>do
> > more masters racing, but I'm also looking forward to doubling up at the
> > crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2 race too. Promoters need to
> > remember not to penalize a master just cause he can ride with the young
>guys
> >
> > and the promoters that like to do this cause the have a ton of 3's and
>want
> > to dominate the master race, the really aren't because the best masters
>are
> > not there...I just hope the promoters keep it as masters 40 with out the
> > little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
> > cheers
> > Mark Duff
> > www.veloforma.com
> >
> >
> > >From: "Luciano bailey"
> > >To: ,
> > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
> > >
> > >Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can become almost overwhelming at
> > >times, the truth is at the big events masters is an over thirty cat
>similar
> >
> > >to the twilight crit where an over forty guy Kent Johnston beat all
>comers.
> >
> > >In the events where some masters doubled up there performance in a 1/2
>may
> > >have been compromised due to the earlier ride in the masters. I think
>these
> >
> > >cats serve the borderline riders better than some of the super old guys
>so
> > >keeping them certainly serves the majority. Just my 2 cents
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Candi Murray
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:17 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >
> > >
> > > If someone wants to propose this, the annual meeting is the first week
> > >of
> > > February and it could be voted on again.
> > > Candi
> > >
> > > Ps no the people voting on it were mostly under 40
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > >[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > > Behalf Of David Marsh
> > > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:26 AM
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> > >
> > > NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to
> > >see
> > > it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it
>up
> >
> > >for
> > > a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who
> > >voted
> > > for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > Unsubscribe:
> > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > > Unsubscribe:
> > >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >OBRA mailing list
> > >obra@list.obra.org
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page
> > www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
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John F. Wilson

Seems like this topic comes up every year. I suspect that is because every
year several folks toggle over into a new age category.

My Vote: Pick something and stay with it. If OBRA does that, eventually you
will be young in your age category, and old in your age category. Changing
every year or two seems kind of silly (unless we are trying to align with
other organizations or some other good reason like that).

Represent your team at the OBRA Banquet and vote !

My worthless two cents

John Wilson

Don Vizzini

gschreckchat@comcast.net

I do not think that Mark has a problem with categories within Masters racing. I think his problem is when the only Masters race is a 3/4/5 which means that he cannot race Masters at all. I think that if there is only one Masters race, it should be open to all categories; however, and if there can be two Masters races divided categories so much the better.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Malcolm, Gary"

> Mark,
>
> I honestly hope you are missing the point. I can't help but notice a bit of
> bitterness at the thought of lesser riders having decent placings against
> folks of their own caliber instead of submitting to the 'dominators'. I also
> strongly doubt open masters racing will ever be abandoned for categorized
> masters... it's really more of a welcome addition.
>
> Masters 3/4 or 4/5 is designed to allow older racers an entry point into the
> sport, and not to let experienced racers 'dominate' beginning gray beards. I
> think these categories are typically well attended and offer the opportunity
> for the largest segment of Oregon riders to participate in racing without
> (how shall I put this kindly) getting their socks blown off by sandbagging
> high CATs looking for pack fodder.
>
> Straight up 35+ or 40+ Masters allows all the sandbaggers the law will
> allow, and with open arms too... See you there ;-)
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Gary Malcolm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:40 AM
> To: rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
>
>
> Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+ master cat3 or less races, like we
> started to see before they changed masters racing to 40+. I was looking
> forward to doing more masters racing last year but didn't get to because of
> the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm looking forward to getting to do
> more masters racing, but I'm also looking forward to doubling up at the
> crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2 race too. Promoters need to
> remember not to penalize a master just cause he can ride with the young guys
>
> and the promoters that like to do this cause the have a ton of 3's and want
> to dominate the master race, the really aren't because the best masters are
> not there...I just hope the promoters keep it as masters 40 with out the
> little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
> cheers
> Mark Duff
> www.veloforma.com
>
>
> >From: "Luciano bailey"
> >To: ,
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
> >
> >Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can become almost overwhelming at
> >times, the truth is at the big events masters is an over thirty cat similar
>
> >to the twilight crit where an over forty guy Kent Johnston beat all comers.
>
> >In the events where some masters doubled up there performance in a 1/2 may
> >have been compromised due to the earlier ride in the masters. I think these
>
> >cats serve the borderline riders better than some of the super old guys so
> >keeping them certainly serves the majority. Just my 2 cents
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Candi Murray
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> >
> >
> > If someone wants to propose this, the annual meeting is the first week
> >of
> > February and it could be voted on again.
> > Candi
> >
> > Ps no the people voting on it were mostly under 40
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> >[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of David Marsh
> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:26 AM
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
> >
> > NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to
> >see
> > it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it up
>
> >for
> > a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who
> >voted
> > for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> >
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > Unsubscribe:
> >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> >
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> tinfo/obra>
> > Unsubscribe:
> >obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page
> www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Malcolm, Gary

Mark,

I honestly hope you are missing the point. I can't help but notice a bit of
bitterness at the thought of lesser riders having decent placings against
folks of their own caliber instead of submitting to the 'dominators'. I also
strongly doubt open masters racing will ever be abandoned for categorized
masters... it's really more of a welcome addition.

Masters 3/4 or 4/5 is designed to allow older racers an entry point into the
sport, and not to let experienced racers 'dominate' beginning gray beards. I
think these categories are typically well attended and offer the opportunity
for the largest segment of Oregon riders to participate in racing without
(how shall I put this kindly) getting their socks blown off by sandbagging
high CATs looking for pack fodder.

Straight up 35+ or 40+ Masters allows all the sandbaggers the law will
allow, and with open arms too... See you there ;-)

Best Regards,

Gary Malcolm

-----Original Message-----
From: mark duff [mailto:trackdaze@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:40 AM
To: rideon1@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+

Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+ master cat3 or less races, like we
started to see before they changed masters racing to 40+. I was looking
forward to doing more masters racing last year but didn't get to because of
the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm looking forward to getting to do
more masters racing, but I'm also looking forward to doubling up at the
crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2 race too. Promoters need to
remember not to penalize a master just cause he can ride with the young guys

and the promoters that like to do this cause the have a ton of 3's and want
to dominate the master race, the really aren't because the best masters are
not there...I just hope the promoters keep it as masters 40 with out the
little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
cheers
Mark Duff
www.veloforma.com

>From: "Luciano bailey"
>To: ,
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
>
>Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can become almost overwhelming at
>times, the truth is at the big events masters is an over thirty cat similar

>to the twilight crit where an over forty guy Kent Johnston beat all comers.

>In the events where some masters doubled up there performance in a 1/2 may
>have been compromised due to the earlier ride in the masters. I think these

>cats serve the borderline riders better than some of the super old guys so
>keeping them certainly serves the majority. Just my 2 cents
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Candi Murray
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
>
>
> If someone wants to propose this, the annual meeting is the first week
>of
> February and it could be voted on again.
> Candi
>
> Ps no the people voting on it were mostly under 40
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of David Marsh
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:26 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
>
> NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to
>see
> it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it up

>for
> a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who
>voted
> for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
>
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
>obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
>
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
>obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

mark duff

Lets just hope we don't start seeing 40+ master cat3 or less races, like we
started to see before they changed masters racing to 40+. I was looking
forward to doing more masters racing last year but didn't get to because of
the masters 40 rule, but now I'm 40 so I'm looking forward to getting to do
more masters racing, but I'm also looking forward to doubling up at the
crits when I'm feeling good and do the 1/2 race too. Promoters need to
remember not to penalize a master just cause he can ride with the young guys
and the promoters that like to do this cause the have a ton of 3's and want
to dominate the master race, the really aren't because the best masters are
not there...I just hope the promoters keep it as masters 40 with out the
little rule changes. Just my 2 cents.
cheers
Mark Duff
www.veloforma.com

>From: "Luciano bailey"
>To: ,
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:06 -0800
>
>Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can become almost overwhelming at
>times, the truth is at the big events masters is an over thirty cat similar
>to the twilight crit where an over forty guy Kent Johnston beat all comers.
>In the events where some masters doubled up there performance in a 1/2 may
>have been compromised due to the earlier ride in the masters. I think these
>cats serve the borderline riders better than some of the super old guys so
>keeping them certainly serves the majority. Just my 2 cents
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Candi Murray
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
>
>
> If someone wants to propose this, the annual meeting is the first week
>of
> February and it could be voted on again.
> Candi
>
> Ps no the people voting on it were mostly under 40
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of David Marsh
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:26 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
>
> NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to
>see
> it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it up
>for
> a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who
>voted
> for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
>
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
>obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
>
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
>obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
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Luciano bailey

Vote on OBRA the whole masters issue can become almost overwhelming at times, the truth is at the big events masters is an over thirty cat similar to the twilight crit where an over forty guy Kent Johnston beat all comers. In the events where some masters doubled up there performance in a 1/2 may have been compromised due to the earlier ride in the masters. I think these cats serve the borderline riders better than some of the super old guys so keeping them certainly serves the majority. Just my 2 cents
----- Original Message -----
From: Candi Murray
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+

If someone wants to propose this, the annual meeting is the first week of
February and it could be voted on again.
Candi

Ps no the people voting on it were mostly under 40

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of David Marsh
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:26 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+

NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to see
it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it up for
a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who voted
for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Candi Murray

If someone wants to propose this, the annual meeting is the first week of
February and it could be voted on again.
Candi

Ps no the people voting on it were mostly under 40

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of David Marsh
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:26 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+

NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to see
it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it up for
a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who voted
for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

John Knotts

yea man, 35 ain't that old!

On 12/29/06, Long, Steve wrote:
>
> Me too. I support keeping the 40+.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:50 AM
> To: David Marsh
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+
>
> I don't know who the voters were but I support keeping 40+.
>
> Rick
>
> David Marsh wrote:
>
> >NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to
> see it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put
> it up for a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of
> people who voted for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Long, Steve

Me too. I support keeping the 40+.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:50 AM
To: David Marsh
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters 35+

I don't know who the voters were but I support keeping 40+.

Rick

David Marsh wrote:

>NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to
see it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put
it up for a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of
people who voted for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rick C Johnson

I don't know who the voters were but I support keeping 40+.

Rick

David Marsh wrote:

>NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to see it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it up for a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who voted for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>

David Marsh

NCNCA uses masters 35+ at most races. I enjoyed it, and would like to see it in OBRA events. If it is a rule that was voted on, why not put it up for a vote again. Also, just wondering...were the majority of people who voted for a 40+ masters over 40 years old?