For any who can't bear the thought of missing any of sooper bowl
sunday... There will be a no-hoswt bar and a big screen TV in the
lounge between the OBRA meeting room and the Dinner. Dang... that
excuse just went away.
See you at the annual meeting.
Jerry
Jerry Powell
USAC Level 1 Coach
1926 SW Madison St
Portland, OR 97205
503 222 7173
503 799 7823
jpowell@spiritone.com
We have had multiple computations. We tried to tie the field size to the %
of total points dispensed.
While the goal of the BAR is to award the Best All Round Rider it also has
the dual purpose to encourage participation. For that reason the Board of
Directors determined that all races, regardless of size should have the same
point structure. This was to encourage participation in the smaller events.
Last year we did enact a 50% bonus point computation for field sizes over
75.
Candi
_____
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jay Rideout
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:30 PM
To: Cheryl Willson; Obra
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Meeting Rules Proposals
I think we are up to a .10 (ALT+0162). Leaving it the same... what a novel
concept. It might be good to hear about some of the original thrashing and
bashing that went into the existing points scheme. Perhaps it does
represent the best comprimise.
Jay
----- Original Message ----
From: Cheryl Willson
To: Obra
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:58:50 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Meeting Rules Proposals
Speaking as someone that gets a lot of the questions about the BAR, a lot
people do care about it. Yes, only a few may be in contention to win each
category but many like to place well or better than they did before. Or
maybe they just care about it - all I know is that I get many questions
about it.
That being said, my two cents is that I think that there is a lot to be said
for keeping it the same...even if it is only to reduce the number of
questions. Yes, this is for selfish reasons (but also for unselfish reasons
- why confuse people?) There will always be questions and confusion but
change will likely lead to more questions and confusion (at least in the
short term).
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Eric Kytola"
Date: January 31, 2007 10:52:45 AM PST
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
How many people actually race for the BAR? A few in each category right.
Well then maybe those people racing for the BAR will attend smaller races. I
would perceive that as a good thing.
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ron Frerichs
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:12 AM
To: jbrideout@yahoo.com; RCJohnson1@attglobal.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Bottom-up is OK. But still, as long as you've got 15 riders, you get full
points. What about using different points scales based on
participation...bigger fields=more points:
60+ Riders 35-59 Riders 34 or less
Place (100%) (90%) (80%)
1st 30 27 24
2nd 25 23 20
3rd 22 20 18
4th 19 18 16
5th 17 16 14
6th 15 14 12
7th 13 12 11
8th 11 10 9
9th 9 9 8
10th 7 7 6
11th 5 5 5
12th 4 4 4
13th 3 3 3
14th 2 2 2
15th 1 1 1
Here, every race pays points 15 deep, but the bigger the field, the bigger
the points for a top 10 finish. Of course, that's just one stab at it, and
those numbers could be tweaked.
I support efforts to help promoters give us bigger and better races. But
that shouldn't be the focus here. The BAR system should be a fair measure
of the Best All-around Rider. It shouldn't be manipulated based on what
benefits the promoters. That's my 2¢ (not on the keyboard...but type
ALT+0162).
Ron
From: Jay Rideout
To: Rick Johnson
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:40:16 -0800 (PST)
Agreed, three in a class, and you'd better find some friends : ) But I'm
in the shrinking 55+ world. Oh well.
I'm thinking in terms of the promoter and the people that make the effort to
be involved in some of the lower draw events. By distributing the range of
points over the participating (finishing) field it maintains the full points
value of a first place. With a bottom up points award I think you'd lose
some incentive for participation and sponsership because there are no high
end points. A top to bottom points distribution spread over a less then
15 group of finishers helps maintain the attraction of the event for racers,
sponsers, and promoters.
Just my $0.02 . (Geeze there's no "cent" symbol on the keyboard...
inflation)
Jay
----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Johnson
To: Jay Rideout
Cc: comotionclassic@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:03:52 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
I think that proposal winds up being completely arbitrary in practice. You
could have three fast people in a legitimate close race, three sightseers
dawdling or any combination thereof. How does this idea fairly reward the
former while encouraging the latter?
If you really want to tip the scales in favor of encouragement and reward
how about a "bottom up" point structure. Start at 1 point for the last
finisher and count up by one for every finisher.
Only three people in that class? Then they should have got some friends to
come out and fill the field.
Somebody else did well against a field of 100? To the victor goes the
spoils!
Just a thought...
Rick
Jay Rideout wrote:
BAR Points: With fewer then fifteen finishers I propose that the points be
distributed so that the 1st place finisher would receive 30 points and the
last place finisher would receive 1 point and the other finishers would be
distributed based on the number of finishers: examples
3 finishers 1st: 30 pts, 2nd: 15 pts, and 3rd: 1 pt.
If the finishers doen't evenly match up to the points distribution, just
round up a point.
----- Original Message ----
From: "comotionclassic@comcast.net"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15:07 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Discussion topics:
-Junior gear restrictions
-Two OBRA events at the same location
-Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
Proposed rules:
-Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number of
riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't
upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative - it
would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
-No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic
purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative -
hard to interpret and enforce)
-Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would
receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from the
bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are
fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as
follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason -
make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean
less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing with
3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
Sal Collura
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
_______________________________________________
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Bored stiff?
Loosen up...
Download and play
hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
I think we are up to a .10 (ALT+0162). Leaving it the same... what a novel concept. It might be good to hear about some of the original thrashing and bashing that went into the existing points scheme. Perhaps it does represent the best comprimise.
Jay
----- Original Message ----
From: Cheryl Willson
To: Obra
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:58:50 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Meeting Rules Proposals
Speaking as someone that gets a lot of the questions about the BAR, a lot people do care about it. Yes, only a few may be in contention to win each category but many like to place well or better than they did before. Or maybe they just care about it - all I know is that I get many questions about it.
That being said, my two cents is that I think that there is a lot to be said for keeping it the same...even if it is only to reduce the number of questions. Yes, this is for selfish reasons (but also for unselfish reasons - why confuse people?) There will always be questions and confusion but change will likely lead to more questions and confusion (at least in the short term).
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Eric Kytola"
Date: January 31, 2007 10:52:45 AM PST
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
How many people actually race for the BAR? A few in each category right. Well then maybe those people racing for the BAR will attend smaller races. I would perceive that as a good thing.
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Ron Frerichs
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:12 AM
To: jbrideout@yahoo.com; RCJohnson1@attglobal.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Bottom-up is OK. But still, as long as you've got 15 riders, you get full
points. What about using different points scales based on
participation...bigger fields=more points:
60+ Riders 35-59 Riders 34 or less
Place (100%) (90%) (80%)
1st 30 27 24
2nd 25 23 20
3rd 22 20 18
4th 19 18 16
5th 17 16 14
6th 15 14 12
7th 13 12 11
8th 11 10 9
9th 9 9 8
10th 7 7 6
11th 5 5 5
12th 4 4 4
13th 3 3 3
14th 2 2 2
15th 1 1 1
Here, every race pays points 15 deep, but the bigger the field, the bigger
the points for a top 10 finish. Of course, that's just one stab at it, and
those numbers could be tweaked.
I support efforts to help promoters give us bigger and better races. But
that shouldn't be the focus here. The BAR system should be a fair measure
of the Best All-around Rider. It shouldn't be manipulated based on what
benefits the promoters. That's my 2¢ (not on the keyboard...but type
ALT+0162).
Ron
From: Jay Rideout
To: Rick Johnson
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:40:16 -0800 (PST)
Agreed, three in a class, and you'd better find some friends : ) But I'm
in the shrinking 55+ world. Oh well.
I'm thinking in terms of the promoter and the people that make the effort to
be involved in some of the lower draw events. By distributing the range of
points over the participating (finishing) field it maintains the full points
value of a first place. With a bottom up points award I think you'd lose
some incentive for participation and sponsership because there are no high
end points. A top to bottom points distribution spread over a less then
15 group of finishers helps maintain the attraction of the event for racers,
sponsers, and promoters.
Just my $0.02 . (Geeze there's no "cent" symbol on the keyboard...
inflation)
Jay
----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Johnson
To: Jay Rideout
Cc: comotionclassic@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:03:52 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
I think that proposal winds up being completely arbitrary in practice. You
could have three fast people in a legitimate close race, three sightseers
dawdling or any combination thereof. How does this idea fairly reward the
former while encouraging the latter?
If you really want to tip the scales in favor of encouragement and reward
how about a "bottom up" point structure. Start at 1 point for the last
finisher and count up by one for every finisher.
Only three people in that class? Then they should have got some friends to
come out and fill the field.
Somebody else did well against a field of 100? To the victor goes the
spoils!
Just a thought...
Rick
Jay Rideout wrote:
BAR Points: With fewer then fifteen finishers I propose that the points be
distributed so that the 1st place finisher would receive 30 points and the
last place finisher would receive 1 point and the other finishers would be
distributed based on the number of finishers: examples
3 finishers 1st: 30 pts, 2nd: 15 pts, and 3rd: 1 pt.
If the finishers doen't evenly match up to the points distribution, just
round up a point.
----- Original Message ----
From: "comotionclassic@comcast.net"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15:07 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Discussion topics:
-Junior gear restrictions
-Two OBRA events at the same location
-Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
Proposed rules:
-Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number of
riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't
upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative - it
would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
-No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic
purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative -
hard to interpret and enforce)
-Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would
receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from the
bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are
fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as
follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason -
make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean
less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing with
3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
Sal Collura
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
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This seems like a pretty fair idea. I think it is important to not short
the people racing in areas where there are not as many riders. More riders
does not always mean a more competitive race. I may have only raced for
three years now, but some of the smaller fields I have raced in have been
the most competitive. People living in other areas of Oregon (than Portland
Metro) should not face discrimination because of smaller fields. They may
be very committed to racing, but not able to come race in the
Portland/Willamette valley area as easily as us Portlandites. Ron's idea
seems to me to keep it pretty close.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Frerichs"
To: ;
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
> Bottom-up is OK. But still, as long as you've got 15 riders, you get full
> points. What about using different points scales based on
> participation...bigger fields=more points:
>
> 60+ Riders 35-59 Riders 34 or less
> Place (100%) (90%) (80%)
> 1st 30 27 24
> 2nd 25 23 20
> 3rd 22 20 18
> 4th 19 18 16
> 5th 17 16 14
> 6th 15 14 12
> 7th 13 12 11
> 8th 11 10 9
> 9th 9 9 8
> 10th 7 7 6
> 11th 5 5 5
> 12th 4 4 4
> 13th 3 3 3
> 14th 2 2 2
> 15th 1 1 1
>
> Here, every race pays points 15 deep, but the bigger the field, the bigger
> the points for a top 10 finish. Of course, that's just one stab at it,
> and
> those numbers could be tweaked.
>
> I support efforts to help promoters give us bigger and better races. But
> that shouldn't be the focus here. The BAR system should be a fair measure
> of the Best All-around Rider. It shouldn't be manipulated based on what
> benefits the promoters. That's my 2¢ (not on the keyboard...but type
> ALT+0162).
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> From: Jay Rideout
> To: Rick Johnson
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:40:16 -0800 (PST)
>
> Agreed, three in a class, and you'd better find some friends : ) But I'm
> in the shrinking 55+ world. Oh well.
>
> I'm thinking in terms of the promoter and the people that make the effort
> to
> be involved in some of the lower draw events. By distributing the range
> of
> points over the participating (finishing) field it maintains the full
> points
> value of a first place. With a bottom up points award I think you'd lose
> some incentive for participation and sponsership because there are no high
> end points. A top to bottom points distribution spread over a less then
> 15 group of finishers helps maintain the attraction of the event for
> racers,
> sponsers, and promoters.
>
> Just my $0.02 . (Geeze there's no "cent" symbol on the keyboard...
> inflation)
> Jay
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Rick Johnson
> To: Jay Rideout
> Cc: comotionclassic@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:03:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
>
> I think that proposal winds up being completely arbitrary in practice. You
> could have three fast people in a legitimate close race, three sightseers
> dawdling or any combination thereof. How does this idea fairly reward the
> former while encouraging the latter?
>
> If you really want to tip the scales in favor of encouragement and reward
> how about a "bottom up" point structure. Start at 1 point for the last
> finisher and count up by one for every finisher.
> Only three people in that class? Then they should have got some friends to
> come out and fill the field.
> Somebody else did well against a field of 100? To the victor goes the
> spoils!
>
> Just a thought...
> Rick
>
> Jay Rideout wrote:
> BAR Points: With fewer then fifteen finishers I propose that the points
> be
> distributed so that the 1st place finisher would receive 30 points and the
> last place finisher would receive 1 point and the other finishers would be
> distributed based on the number of finishers: examples
> 3 finishers 1st: 30 pts, 2nd: 15 pts, and 3rd: 1 pt.
>
> If the finishers doen't evenly match up to the points distribution, just
> round up a point.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "comotionclassic@comcast.net"
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15:07 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
>
>
> Discussion topics:
> -Junior gear restrictions
> -Two OBRA events at the same location
> -Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
>
> Proposed rules:
> -Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number
> of
> riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't
> upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative -
> it
> would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
>
> -No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic
> purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative -
> hard to interpret and enforce)
>
> -Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would
> receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from
> the
> bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are
> fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as
> follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason -
> make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean
> less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing
> with
> 3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
>
> Sal Collura
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Cheap talk?
> Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
> http://voice.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
> with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
Speaking as someone that gets a lot of the questions about the BAR, a
lot people do care about it. Yes, only a few may be in contention to
win each category but many like to place well or better than they did
before. Or maybe they just care about it - all I know is that I get
many questions about it.
That being said, my two cents is that I think that there is a lot to
be said for keeping it the same...even if it is only to reduce the
number of questions. Yes, this is for selfish reasons (but also for
unselfish reasons - why confuse people?) There will always be
questions and confusion but change will likely lead to more questions
and confusion (at least in the short term).
Begin forwarded message:
> From: "Eric Kytola"
> Date: January 31, 2007 10:52:45 AM PST
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
>
> How many people actually race for the BAR? A few in each category
> right. Well then maybe those people racing for the BAR will attend
> smaller races. I would perceive that as a good thing.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Ron Frerichs
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:12 AM
> To: jbrideout@yahoo.com; RCJohnson1@attglobal.net
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
>
> Bottom-up is OK. But still, as long as you've got 15 riders, you
> get full
> points. What about using different points scales based on
> participation...bigger fields=more points:
>
> 60+ Riders 35-59 Riders 34 or less
> Place (100%) (90%) (80%)
> 1st 30 27 24
> 2nd 25 23 20
> 3rd 22 20 18
> 4th 19 18 16
> 5th 17 16 14
> 6th 15 14 12
> 7th 13 12 11
> 8th 11 10 9
> 9th 9 9 8
> 10th 7 7 6
> 11th 5 5 5
> 12th 4 4 4
> 13th 3 3 3
> 14th 2 2 2
> 15th 1 1 1
>
> Here, every race pays points 15 deep, but the bigger the field, the
> bigger
> the points for a top 10 finish. Of course, that's just one stab at
> it, and
> those numbers could be tweaked.
>
> I support efforts to help promoters give us bigger and better
> races. But
> that shouldn't be the focus here. The BAR system should be a fair
> measure
> of the Best All-around Rider. It shouldn't be manipulated based on
> what
> benefits the promoters. That's my 2¢ (not on the keyboard...but type
> ALT+0162).
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> From: Jay Rideout
> To: Rick Johnson
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:40:16 -0800 (PST)
>
> Agreed, three in a class, and you'd better find some friends : )
> But I'm
> in the shrinking 55+ world. Oh well.
>
> I'm thinking in terms of the promoter and the people that make the
> effort to
> be involved in some of the lower draw events. By distributing the
> range of
> points over the participating (finishing) field it maintains the
> full points
> value of a first place. With a bottom up points award I think
> you'd lose
> some incentive for participation and sponsership because there are
> no high
> end points. A top to bottom points distribution spread over a
> less then
> 15 group of finishers helps maintain the attraction of the event
> for racers,
> sponsers, and promoters.
>
> Just my $0.02 . (Geeze there's no "cent" symbol on the keyboard...
> inflation)
> Jay
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Rick Johnson
> To: Jay Rideout
> Cc: comotionclassic@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:03:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
>
> I think that proposal winds up being completely arbitrary in
> practice. You
> could have three fast people in a legitimate close race, three
> sightseers
> dawdling or any combination thereof. How does this idea fairly
> reward the
> former while encouraging the latter?
>
> If you really want to tip the scales in favor of encouragement and
> reward
> how about a "bottom up" point structure. Start at 1 point for the last
> finisher and count up by one for every finisher.
> Only three people in that class? Then they should have got some
> friends to
> come out and fill the field.
> Somebody else did well against a field of 100? To the victor goes the
> spoils!
>
> Just a thought...
> Rick
>
> Jay Rideout wrote:
> BAR Points: With fewer then fifteen finishers I propose that the
> points be
> distributed so that the 1st place finisher would receive 30 points
> and the
> last place finisher would receive 1 point and the other finishers
> would be
> distributed based on the number of finishers: examples
> 3 finishers 1st: 30 pts, 2nd: 15 pts, and 3rd: 1 pt.
>
> If the finishers doen't evenly match up to the points distribution,
> just
> round up a point.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "comotionclassic@comcast.net"
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15:07 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
>
>
> Discussion topics:
> -Junior gear restrictions
> -Two OBRA events at the same location
> -Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
>
> Proposed rules:
> -Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease
> number of
> riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't
> upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women)
> (Negative - it
> would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
>
> -No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic
> purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition)
> (Negative -
> hard to interpret and enforce)
>
> -Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields
> would
> receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded
> from the
> bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there
> are
> fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place
> finisher as
> follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30.
> (Reason -
> make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes
> points mean
> less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points
> racing with
> 3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
>
> Sal Collura
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______________
> Cheap talk?
> Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
> http://voice.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______________
> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
> with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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> Live
> Spaces
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> href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/
> friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
How many people actually race for the BAR? A few in each category right. Well then maybe those people racing for the BAR will attend smaller races. I would perceive that as a good thing.
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Ron Frerichs
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:12 AM
To: jbrideout@yahoo.com; RCJohnson1@attglobal.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Bottom-up is OK. But still, as long as you've got 15 riders, you get full
points. What about using different points scales based on
participation...bigger fields=more points:
60+ Riders 35-59 Riders 34 or less
Place (100%) (90%) (80%)
1st 30 27 24
2nd 25 23 20
3rd 22 20 18
4th 19 18 16
5th 17 16 14
6th 15 14 12
7th 13 12 11
8th 11 10 9
9th 9 9 8
10th 7 7 6
11th 5 5 5
12th 4 4 4
13th 3 3 3
14th 2 2 2
15th 1 1 1
Here, every race pays points 15 deep, but the bigger the field, the bigger
the points for a top 10 finish. Of course, that's just one stab at it, and
those numbers could be tweaked.
I support efforts to help promoters give us bigger and better races. But
that shouldn't be the focus here. The BAR system should be a fair measure
of the Best All-around Rider. It shouldn't be manipulated based on what
benefits the promoters. That's my 2¢ (not on the keyboard...but type
ALT+0162).
Ron
From: Jay Rideout
To: Rick Johnson
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:40:16 -0800 (PST)
Agreed, three in a class, and you'd better find some friends : ) But I'm
in the shrinking 55+ world. Oh well.
I'm thinking in terms of the promoter and the people that make the effort to
be involved in some of the lower draw events. By distributing the range of
points over the participating (finishing) field it maintains the full points
value of a first place. With a bottom up points award I think you'd lose
some incentive for participation and sponsership because there are no high
end points. A top to bottom points distribution spread over a less then
15 group of finishers helps maintain the attraction of the event for racers,
sponsers, and promoters.
Just my $0.02 . (Geeze there's no "cent" symbol on the keyboard...
inflation)
Jay
----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Johnson
To: Jay Rideout
Cc: comotionclassic@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:03:52 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
I think that proposal winds up being completely arbitrary in practice. You
could have three fast people in a legitimate close race, three sightseers
dawdling or any combination thereof. How does this idea fairly reward the
former while encouraging the latter?
If you really want to tip the scales in favor of encouragement and reward
how about a "bottom up" point structure. Start at 1 point for the last
finisher and count up by one for every finisher.
Only three people in that class? Then they should have got some friends to
come out and fill the field.
Somebody else did well against a field of 100? To the victor goes the
spoils!
Just a thought...
Rick
Jay Rideout wrote:
BAR Points: With fewer then fifteen finishers I propose that the points be
distributed so that the 1st place finisher would receive 30 points and the
last place finisher would receive 1 point and the other finishers would be
distributed based on the number of finishers: examples
3 finishers 1st: 30 pts, 2nd: 15 pts, and 3rd: 1 pt.
If the finishers doen't evenly match up to the points distribution, just
round up a point.
----- Original Message ----
From: "comotionclassic@comcast.net"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15:07 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Discussion topics:
-Junior gear restrictions
-Two OBRA events at the same location
-Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
Proposed rules:
-Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number of
riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't
upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative - it
would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
-No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic
purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative -
hard to interpret and enforce)
-Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would
receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from the
bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are
fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as
follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason -
make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean
less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing with
3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
Sal Collura
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_________________________________________________________________
Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
Bottom-up is OK. But still, as long as you've got 15 riders, you get full
points. What about using different points scales based on
participation...bigger fields=more points:
60+ Riders 35-59 Riders 34 or less
Place (100%) (90%) (80%)
1st 30 27 24
2nd 25 23 20
3rd 22 20 18
4th 19 18 16
5th 17 16 14
6th 15 14 12
7th 13 12 11
8th 11 10 9
9th 9 9 8
10th 7 7 6
11th 5 5 5
12th 4 4 4
13th 3 3 3
14th 2 2 2
15th 1 1 1
Here, every race pays points 15 deep, but the bigger the field, the bigger
the points for a top 10 finish. Of course, that's just one stab at it, and
those numbers could be tweaked.
I support efforts to help promoters give us bigger and better races. But
that shouldn't be the focus here. The BAR system should be a fair measure
of the Best All-around Rider. It shouldn't be manipulated based on what
benefits the promoters. That's my 2? (not on the keyboard...but type
ALT+0162).
Ron
From: Jay Rideout
To: Rick Johnson
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:40:16 -0800 (PST)
Agreed, three in a class, and you'd better find some friends : ) But I'm
in the shrinking 55+ world. Oh well.
I'm thinking in terms of the promoter and the people that make the effort to
be involved in some of the lower draw events. By distributing the range of
points over the participating (finishing) field it maintains the full points
value of a first place. With a bottom up points award I think you'd lose
some incentive for participation and sponsership because there are no high
end points. A top to bottom points distribution spread over a less then
15 group of finishers helps maintain the attraction of the event for racers,
sponsers, and promoters.
Just my $0.02 . (Geeze there's no "cent" symbol on the keyboard...
inflation)
Jay
----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Johnson
To: Jay Rideout
Cc: comotionclassic@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:03:52 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
I think that proposal winds up being completely arbitrary in practice. You
could have three fast people in a legitimate close race, three sightseers
dawdling or any combination thereof. How does this idea fairly reward the
former while encouraging the latter?
If you really want to tip the scales in favor of encouragement and reward
how about a "bottom up" point structure. Start at 1 point for the last
finisher and count up by one for every finisher.
Only three people in that class? Then they should have got some friends to
come out and fill the field.
Somebody else did well against a field of 100? To the victor goes the
spoils!
Just a thought...
Rick
Jay Rideout wrote:
BAR Points: With fewer then fifteen finishers I propose that the points be
distributed so that the 1st place finisher would receive 30 points and the
last place finisher would receive 1 point and the other finishers would be
distributed based on the number of finishers: examples
3 finishers 1st: 30 pts, 2nd: 15 pts, and 3rd: 1 pt.
If the finishers doen't evenly match up to the points distribution, just
round up a point.
----- Original Message ----
From: "comotionclassic@comcast.net"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15:07 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Discussion topics:
-Junior gear restrictions
-Two OBRA events at the same location
-Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
Proposed rules:
-Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number of
riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't
upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative - it
would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
-No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic
purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative -
hard to interpret and enforce)
-Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would
receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from the
bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are
fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as
follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason -
make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean
less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing with
3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
Sal Collura
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_________________________________________________________________
Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
Jay hold down the ?alt key? and press 0162 and you will get ¢
Enjoy,
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jay Rideout
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:40 AM
To: Rick Johnson
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Agreed, three in a class, and you'd better find some friends : ) But I'm
in the shrinking 55+ world. Oh well.
I'm thinking in terms of the promoter and the people that make the effort to
be involved in some of the lower draw events. By distributing the range of
points over the participating (finishing) field it maintains the full points
value of a first place. With a bottom up points award I think you'd lose
some incentive for participation and sponsership because there are no high
end points. A top to bottom points distribution spread over a less then
15 group of finishers helps maintain the attraction of the event for racers,
sponsers, and promoters.
Just my $0.02 . (Geeze there's no "cent" symbol on the keyboard...
inflation)
Jay
----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Johnson
To: Jay Rideout
Cc: comotionclassic@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:03:52 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
I think that proposal winds up being completely arbitrary in practice. You
could have three fast people in a legitimate close race, three sightseers
dawdling or any combination thereof. How does this idea fairly reward the
former while encouraging the latter?
If you really want to tip the scales in favor of encouragement and reward
how about a "bottom up" point structure. Start at 1 point for the last
finisher and count up by one for every finisher.
Only three people in that class? Then they should have got some friends to
come out and fill the field.
Somebody else did well against a field of 100? To the victor goes the
spoils!
Just a thought...
Rick
Jay Rideout wrote:
BAR Points: With fewer then fifteen finishers I propose that the points be
distributed so that the 1st place finisher would receive 30 points and the
last place finisher would receive 1 point and the other finishers would be
distributed based on the number of finishers: examples
3 finishers 1st: 30 pts, 2nd: 15 pts, and 3rd: 1 pt.
If the finishers doen't evenly match up to the points distribution, just
round up a point.
----- Original Message ----
From: "comotionclassic@comcast.net"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15:07 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Discussion topics:
-Junior gear restrictions
-Two OBRA events at the same location
-Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
Proposed rules:
-Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number of
riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't
upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative - it
would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
-No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic
purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative -
hard to interpret and enforce)
-Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would
receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from the
bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are
fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as
follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason -
make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean
less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing with
3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
Sal Collura
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_____
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let
Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and
hotel bargains.
Agreed, three in a class, and you'd better find some friends : ) But I'm in the shrinking 55+ world. Oh well.
I'm thinking in terms of the promoter and the people that make the effort to be involved in some of the lower draw events. By distributing the range of points over the participating (finishing) field it maintains the full points value of a first place. With a bottom up points award I think you'd lose some incentive for participation and sponsership because there are no high end points. A top to bottom points distribution spread over a less then 15 group of finishers helps maintain the attraction of the event for racers, sponsers, and promoters.
Just my $0.02 . (Geeze there's no "cent" symbol on the keyboard... inflation)
Jay
----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Johnson
To: Jay Rideout
Cc: comotionclassic@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:03:52 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
I think that proposal winds up being completely arbitrary in practice. You could have three fast people in a legitimate close race, three sightseers dawdling or any combination thereof. How does this idea fairly reward the former while encouraging the latter?
If you really want to tip the scales in favor of encouragement and reward how about a "bottom up" point structure. Start at 1 point for the last finisher and count up by one for every finisher.
Only three people in that class? Then they should have got some friends to come out and fill the field.
Somebody else did well against a field of 100? To the victor goes the spoils!
Just a thought...
Rick
Jay Rideout wrote:
BAR Points: With fewer then fifteen finishers I propose that the points be distributed so that the 1st place finisher would receive 30 points and the last place finisher would receive 1 point and the other finishers would be distributed based on the number of finishers: examples
3 finishers 1st: 30 pts, 2nd: 15 pts, and 3rd: 1 pt.
If the finishers doen't evenly match up to the points distribution, just round up a point.
----- Original Message ----
From: "comotionclassic@comcast.net"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15:07 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Discussion topics:
-Junior gear restrictions
-Two OBRA events at the same location
-Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
Proposed rules:
-Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number of riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative - it would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
-No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative - hard to interpret and enforce)
-Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from the bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason - make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing with 3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
Sal Collura
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
I think that proposal winds up being completely arbitrary in practice.
You could have three fast people in a legitimate close race, three
sightseers dawdling or any combination thereof. How does this idea
fairly reward the former while encouraging the latter?
If you really want to tip the scales in favor of encouragement and
reward how about a "bottom up" point structure. Start at 1 point for
the last finisher and count up by one for every finisher.
Only three people in that class? Then they should have got some friends
to come out and fill the field.
Somebody else did well against a field of 100? To the victor goes the
spoils!
Just a thought...
Rick
Jay Rideout wrote:
BAR Points: With fewer then fifteen finishers I propose that the points be distributed so that the 1st place finisher would receive 30 points and the last place finisher would receive 1 point and the other finishers would be distributed based on the number of finishers: examples
3 finishers 1st: 30 pts, 2nd: 15 pts, and 3rd: 1 pt.If the finishers doen't evenly match up to the points distribution, just round up a point.
----- Original Message ----
From: "comotionclassic@comcast.net" <comotionclassic@comcast.net>
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15:07 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules ProposalsDiscussion topics:
-Junior gear restrictions
-Two OBRA events at the same location
-Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?Proposed rules:
-Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number of riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative - it would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)-No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative - hard to interpret and enforce)
-Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from the bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason - make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing with 3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
Sal Collura
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
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BAR Points: With fewer then fifteen finishers I propose that the points be distributed so that the 1st place finisher would receive 30 points and the last place finisher would receive 1 point and the other finishers would be distributed based on the number of finishers: examples
3 finishers 1st: 30 pts, 2nd: 15 pts, and 3rd: 1 pt.
If the finishers doen't evenly match up to the points distribution, just round up a point.
----- Original Message ----
From: "comotionclassic@comcast.net"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15:07 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Discussion topics:
-Junior gear restrictions
-Two OBRA events at the same location
-Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
Proposed rules:
-Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number of riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative - it would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
-No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative - hard to interpret and enforce)
-Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from the bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason - make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing with 3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
Sal Collura
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
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I would like to add
Modifying our reciprocity agreement so that we only have to honor
suspensions for disciplinary actions and not failure to show
And
Discussing whether we need to change the age of juniors so that the under 10
can compete if they desire and are able.
Candi
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of comotionclassic@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:15 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Meeting Rules Proposals
Discussion topics:
-Junior gear restrictions
-Two OBRA events at the same location
-Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
Proposed rules:
-Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number of
riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't
upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative - it
would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
-No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic
purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative -
hard to interpret and enforce)
-Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would
receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from the
bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are
fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as
follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason -
make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean
less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing with
3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
Sal Collura
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Discussion topics:
-Junior gear restrictions
-Two OBRA events at the same location
-Lifetime OBRA memberships $500? or $1000 family?
Proposed rules:
-Change upgrade requirements for women from Cat 3 to 2. Decrease number of riders needed to be present from 20 to 15. (Reason - many women can't upgrade because there are not enough races with enough women) (Negative - it would negate our reciprocity agreement with other governing bodies)
-No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an aerodynamic purpose. (Reason - keep unfair advantages out of competition) (Negative - hard to interpret and enforce)
-Change in BAR points system. All OBRA sanctioned races and fields would receive BAR points regardless of size. BAR points would be awarded from the bottom up, starting at the 15th finisher (or last finisher if there are fewer than 15 finishers) and progressing up to the 1st place finisher as follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 30. (Reason - make points more accessible at small events) (Negative - makes points mean less. For example, rider 1 could get the same amount of points racing with 3 people, that rider 2 could get racing against 100 people)
Sal Collura
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
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