EAL
I suppose we're all sorry I brought this up, but if you're going to accuse someone of violating the law you might as well have the right law. You may drive drunk, I shouldn't accuse you of rape, even though they're both wrong and both have thier respective punishments.
As far as your example, Brian, the value has nothing to do with it. If you rob someone at gunpoint and all you get is a penny it's basically the same as getting 10Gs. Similarly, let's say 2 photographers took exaclty the same pictue, one licenses for free or has contributed to the public domain and one licenses for 10K. It's not illegal for me to use the free license even though its value to photographer 1 is 10K. Similarly, let's say I post a diagram of a novel circuit on Shanes's site that cost me 10M to develop. If someone copies my diagram, it isn't copyright infringement becuase you can't copright strictly factual or functional elements. (We won't go into patent issues).
Don't fret. Last post on this issue. It's just a little pet peeve of mine.
Ed
Brian Engelen wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} I think I?m somewhere in the middle on this issue.
Consider this, if I find a penny on the street and put it in my pocket. Is it ?finder keeper?? Then if I find a $10,000 bundle of $100 bills and put it in my pocket is it still ?finder keeper??
What should I do with the penny?
---------------------------------
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of EAL
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:19 AM
To: Ted; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] raceOregon Cherry Pie recap up.
Well, actually it isn't theft at all, it's copyright infringement. Theft and infringment have completely completely different legal and historical roots. You are making the basic mistake of confusing the "thing" with the rights in the thing. For example, if I went into Shane's studio and took his hard copies of his photos or a disk with his digital photos that would be theft (of the thing) but it wouldn't be infringement. If I made unlicensed copies of his photos but didn't remove the originals from his studio that would be infringement becuase I would be exercising rights with respect to the thing that have been granted on an exclusive, but limited basis to Shane.
It's copyright 101
Ed
Ted wrote:
With all due respect, I should mention that attempting to "lift" an image
from Shane's site is attempted theft. Please do not steal images from
photographers. Are the images currently displayed on your site yours? If
not, is your current use of these images authorized by the photographers?
I'm sure Shane would be happy to sell you a rights-managed usage license for
any image you like. You are the end-user of a copyrighted photo and as
such, you have the legal responsibility to obtain permission to use the
photo before doing so. Permission is usually granted with a usage license
from the copyright holder.
Here's a price quote for a standard stock cycling image from the Alamy.com
pricing calculator; I selected values that would most likely apply to the
terms of use on your blog:
Image use: editorial
Details of that use: editorial-online
Image size: up to 1/4 screen
Placement: secondary screen
Duration: 6 months
Territory: Region (PNW)
Product industry: Personal Use Only (blog)
Industry details: Personal Use Only (blog)
Price: $200
If you wanted to use the image for a year on your front page at 1/2 page
size or larger, then the personal use license would be $680, again based on
pricing from a mid-level stock agency like Alamy. Now, don't get me
started on all of the microstock agencies that sell licenses for $1. (They
are partly to blame for the drastic drop in the value of photography over
the last several years.)
Shane would likely quote you a lower price than the example I used above.
But I think you get the point - photos are not free. Also realize that the
license fees from local photographers for OBRA images (including mine) are
extremely low; far lower than required to meet expenses and make a profit.
If a race promoter or OBRA were to actually hire a freelance photographer
for exclusive coverage of an event, then the fee would likely be similar to
what an experienced and established wedding photographer would charge:
- Expenses (e.g., travel): $100+
- Creative Fee: $80-100/hr for 6 hours of shooting at the venue
- Post-processing Fee: 8 hours (usually many more) for processing the
1,000-1,500 RAW images (culling, cropping, exposure/color corrections,
resizing for web display, archiving, exporting to TIFF for Photoshop edits
or directly to JPEG) at $40-$60/hour
- Image licensing: depends on the use, but could be in the $1,000s
A few resources:
http://www.editorialphoto.com/resources/
http://www.editorialphoto.com/copyright/
http://www.editorialphoto.com/resources/value_of_photography.asp
You can also access editorial photo pricing software (e.g., FotoQuote, which
I use) here:
http://www.asmp.org/commerce/estimator.php
~ Ted Turner
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:01 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] raceOregon Cherry Pie recap up.
> Let the naysayers naaaaayyyyyyyyyy.
>
> raceOregon.blogspot.com
>
> I could use a few pictures of the race. I've had a hard time lifting
> them from the oregonvelo page.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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