Jonathan Long

I did think off using of a bad tactic relating to this type of situation but I chose the braver way to go and tried to get up to the lead split.
After a few laps in 'no mans land' I was told to neutralize by an official...

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Adrian Richardson wrote:
> Oh god, i created a monster. I did not want this to be a "who's to blame"
> fest, or a "what it takes to be a crit racer" forum...
> I was just saying... Next time when an official tells me to slow down,
> should i just keep going balls to the wall? After this last race it seems
> that maybe the time it takes to think about abiding to race authority is
> time shaved off your overall result.
> I don't even want to bring up crashed riders getting their free lap with the
> lead group. I guess i should have just fallen vs making the effort to avoid
> the crash and resume racing.
> Sad to even think about these kind of tactics.
> -Adrian
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:10 PM, David Hart wrote:

Mike Murray

Urine tests are done in trauma to look for the presence of blood as a marker
of trauma to the kidney, particularly in cases of abdominal or back injury.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of josh
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 23:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3 Crash

In my experience so long as your level of consciousness is normal the choice
to go to a hospital by ambulance is ultimately up to the injured. I know
that the Emts on scene in the situation last weekend had differing opinions
on the neccessity of ambulance transport (vs opting for transport by private
vehicle/ teammate, etc) for the injured cyclists. However, with head and
back traumas involved I agree that it is typically the best choice to agree
to c-spine precautions, backboards and gurneys as was the chosen route on
Saturday. With the patients on opposite sides of the road being tended to
by different emts it sounds like each cyclist had a slightly different
experience. Additionally, being out of cell phone range seems to have made
several aspects of the situation more complicated.

While the day didnt pan out for many quite as anyone could have forseen and
with all the inconveniences that people experienced, the most important
thing is that we were all able to go home to our families to ride another
day. My baby girl's smile when i walk through the front door always seems
to make a bad day on the bike seem absolutely meaningless in the scheme of
things.

I am rather curious though....the need for urinalysis at the hospital seems
out of place....that wasnt a random OBRA drug screening, was it? Did you
pass?

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

josh

In my experience so long as your level of consciousness is normal the choice to go to a hospital by ambulance is ultimately up to the injured. I know that the Emts on scene in the situation last weekend had differing opinions on the neccessity of ambulance transport (vs opting for transport by private vehicle/ teammate, etc) for the injured cyclists. However, with head and back traumas involved I agree that it is typically the best choice to agree to c-spine precautions, backboards and gurneys as was the chosen route on Saturday. With the patients on opposite sides of the road being tended to by different emts it sounds like each cyclist had a slightly different experience. Additionally, being out of cell phone range seems to have made several aspects of the situation more complicated.

While the day didnt pan out for many quite as anyone could have forseen and with all the inconveniences that people experienced, the most important thing is that we were all able to go home to our families to ride another day. My baby girl's smile when i walk through the front door always seems to make a bad day on the bike seem absolutely meaningless in the scheme of things.

I am rather curious though....the need for urinalysis at the hospital seems out of place....that wasnt a random OBRA drug screening, was it? Did you pass?

Kevin

I'll add my $.02 also.  I was hit by a car while cycling about 20 months ago. I was KO'd for just over an hour and unknowingly took a little ambulance ride to one of Portland's trauma units. After regaining consciousness and finishing a couple of passes through a CAT scan and MRI one of the ER staff asked if they could make any calls for me.  I hadn't thought about it before then. (a little foggy yet I guess) At any rate, just over 90 minutes after the car ran into me my family was notified. I would think that any hospital would be happy to make that call for you even if they didn't allow cell phone use in the building or if you couldn't get a signal in the building. In my case, my cell phone, ID, CLOTHES! didn't make the trip with me. :-O

I now have a photocopy of my driver's license in my underseat bag and Road ID in my shoelaces.   Not that you speedy folks have any of that on the race course, but it might be something to think about when on you are on training rides. At least somebody would know who to call if you weren't able to communicate.

Kevin

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?

http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

--- On Tue, 5/27/08, michelechirgwin@comcast.net <michelechirgwin@comcast.net> wrote:
From: michelechirgwin@comcast.net <michelechirgwin@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3 Crash
To: mike.murray@obra.org, obra@list.obra.org
Date: Tuesday, May 27, 2008, 3:09 PM

I just have to add my $.02 cents worth.
 
Unless one is unconscience, why in the world wouldn't that person make a phone call to his/her family? Either in the car, in the ambulance or at the hospital. Phone access is not that difficult. Even if you busted your cell phone in the crash or forgot it in your car, I am sure someone would allow you to use theirs. Even if you were "one of those" who doesn't believe in cell phones, I am sure someone would let you call your loved ones on a borrowed phone. (Heaven forbid, you use modern technology).
 
And wouldn't that be one of the first things you would do under any traumatic circumstance? Call home? I don't think we have too many homeless people out racing. Not that I don't have compassion.
 
Sitting in the emergency room is no fun for anyone. But the few times I have had the wonderful opportunity to visit, I have always been able to call my family (or friends) & have someone show up to help me drag my sore, sorry body back home.
 
And I usually call immediately, not after I have been checked out & then find myself wandering around in the waiting room...finally realizing I may need help getting home.....
 
Sorry to be cynical...but it all seems too logical to me.
 
--
Michele Chirgwin
 

J.Michael Manning

Just a quick explanation for further elucidation...I was strapped to a gurney with a neck brace and the works and all I was told was we were headed to the hospital for an examination. The EMT stated emphatically that in a situation such as this "we do not take any chances". I agreed to go even though I really felt that the examination would prove that I was just badly bruised. I asked the ambulance attendant if I could use his phone to call my wife. He said I could do that when I got to the hospital. Once there, I discovered that cell phone use is banned in the emergency room area and the land lines could not be used because it was a long distance call to Portland (as well as teammates at the race). That's because the hospital was in Longview, Washington. After a few hours of testing ( x-rays, urinalysis, etc...) my request for a phone call was finally taken care of by a social worker who called my wife for me. Of course, her first thought was that something is terribly wrong, because it's not me on the other end of the line...it's the hospital! All minor stuff in the bigger picture, but certainly not a simple scenario. The point of the initial posting was that I think we can improve on the system currently in place. Every situation is different, so rigid guidelines won't necessarily work. But some plan is better than none.
Mike Manning

From: michelechirgwin@comcast.net
To: mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 22:09:20 +0000
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3 Crash

I just have to add my $.02 cents worth.

Unless one is unconscience, why in the world wouldn't that person make a phone call to his/her family? Either in the car, in the ambulance or at the hospital. Phone access is not that difficult. Even if you busted your cell phone in the crash or forgot it in your car, I am sure someone would allow you to use theirs. Even if you were "one of those" who doesn't believe in cell phones, I am sure someone would let you call your loved ones on a borrowed phone. (Heaven forbid, you use modern technology).

And wouldn't that be one of the first things you would do under any traumatic circumstance? Call home? I don't think we have too many homeless people out racing. Not that I don't have compassion.

Sitting in the emergency room is no fun for anyone. But the few times I have had the wonderful opportunity to visit, I have always been able to call my family (or friends) & have someone show up to help me drag my sore, sorry body back home.

And I usually call immediately, not after I have been checked out & then find myself wandering around in the waiting room...finally realizing I may need help getting home.....

Sorry to be cynical...but it all seems too logical to me.

--
Michele Chirgwin

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mike Murray"

> A policy would be difficult to make to cover all eventualities. Frankly
> calling the emergency contact listed on the entry form may not be the most
> efficient method, in part because many list not very useful things like
> "Mike Murray" or their mother back in Chicago. We have often contacted
> family members for people that are transported to the hospital either by
> ambulance or by private vehicle, particularly when it is clear that the
> person is going to be incapacitated. It is also very common for us to help
> coordinate transportation by a friend or teammate. I think that each
> individual situation requires evaluation and then an appropriate response.
> This is complicated in the situation like last weekend
when
the EMS response
> was activated by a bystander not associated with the race and details of the
> crash and who was involved were not available until some time later when the
> on the road officials return in with the still racing field. This is really
> not a major problem. After all, a 2 hour wait for your wife to pick you up
> at the ED is not all that big a deal in the grand scheme of things and is
> probably part of doing business in this sport as well as many others. I can
> tell you from personal and business experience that getting injured while
> skiing is a much bigger deal, can cause a lot longer time and expense with
> transportation and the ski area does not feel compelled to contact your
> family.
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Galen Mittermann
>
; Sent
: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 14:21 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3 Crash
>
>
> Without debating national health care policy here, does OBRA have a policy
> on when to call the emergency contact listed on the waiver forms? I have
> always been lucky enough to crash directly in front of my girlfriend, and
> thus have had the 'friends and family' immediately present to haul my sorry
> butt to and from medical care. If, however, I crashed and was hospitalized
> at an OBRA event and was alone, I would hope that someone would give that
> number on the form a ring and let them know that I was being shipped off.
>
> Since current hospital policy is not to provide for transport once
> discharged, can we as a community do a small part to see that the ball at
> least has a chance to get rolling on taking care of our members after they
> are released? I
think
that making sure that the emergency number gets called
> and the contact informed is both sufficient and a minimum of community
> responsibility, and it certainly is not unreasonable.
>
> GM
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_family_safety_052008

Mark J. Ginsberg

and if you are the friend who stays at the ER with your broken teammate, call the spouse or S.O. of broken teammate, and say right away, "hi this is me, team mate of your spouse, he/she is fine, but we are at the e/r and he has a broken collarbone so we need to figure out some transport."

ginsberg

Jess Mace wrote: Just food for thought..
We as a team have compiled an emergency contact list that each of us
carries in their car in case one of us is injured...Rob Anderson was
instrument in pursing such a team policy after he unfortunately broke a
collarbone two years back at Bananna Belt. It helps get the ball
rolling in terms of hospital contacts, family contacts, etc. with the
expectation, as a team, these things will get worked out and taken care
of while our member is being attended to medically.

Instead of arguing and debating national health care policies on a
racing forum, why not be a BIT more proactive in establishing these
contact lists within your teams. As Galen stated, we all sign release
waiver which have contact information on them...its up to you whether or
not you want to write in 9-1-1 or not (as I know a lot of folks do) but
there may be repurcussions for such an answer....such as being stuck at
the hospital after a short stay. As for the unattached
riders...well...good luck to ya (totally joking).

Some health care systems do provide free transportation services from
the hospital (United Kingdom). Ours, currently, does not...but I'm 100%
positive Hospital Services does have contacts for transporation if
requested by the patient. Instead of bickering relentlessly about it
for no apparent reason for days on-end, be proactive and cover your own
bases as much as possible before you even toe the line at a race...

If a promoter wants to provide the service, wonderful. Should you
expect your ER doc. to leave his job during his/her shift to give you a
ride back to your car at a race venue miles away? Hardly.

Jess C. Mace, MPH
Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
Oregon Health & Science University
503.494.5886

>>> "Galen Mittermann" 5/27/2008 2:21 PM >>>
Without debating national health care policy here, does OBRA have a
policy on when to call the emergency contact listed on the waiver forms?
I have always been lucky enough to crash directly in front of my
girlfriend, and thus have had the 'friends and family' immediately
present to haul my sorry butt to and from medical care. If, however, I
crashed and was hospitalized at an OBRA event and was alone, I would
hope that someone would give that number on the form a ring and let them
know that I was being shipped off.

Since current hospital policy is not to provide for transport once
discharged, can we as a community do a small part to see that the ball
at least has a chance to get rolling on taking care of our members after
they are released? I think that making sure that the emergency number
gets called and the contact informed is both sufficient and a minimum of
community responsibility, and it certainly is not unreasonable.

GM
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

michelechirgwin@comcast.net

I just have to add my $.02 cents worth.

Unless one is unconscience, why in the world wouldn't that person make a phone call to his/her family? Either in the car, in the ambulance or at the hospital. Phone access is not that difficult. Even if you busted your cell phone in the crash or forgot it in your car, I am sure someone would allow you to use theirs. Even if you were "one of those" who doesn't believe in cell phones, I am sure someone would let you call your loved ones on a borrowed phone. (Heaven forbid, you use modern technology).

And wouldn't that be one of the first things you would do under any traumatic circumstance? Call home? I don't think we have too many homeless people out racing. Not that I don't have compassion.

Sitting in the emergency room is no fun for anyone. But the few times I have had the wonderful opportunity to visit, I have always been able to call my family (or friends) & have someone show up to help me drag my sore, sorry body back home.

And I usually call immediately, not after I have been checked out & then find myself wandering around in the waiting room...finally realizing I may need help getting home.....

Sorry to be cynical...but it all seems too logical to me.

--
Michele Chirgwin

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mike Murray"

> A policy would be difficult to make to cover all eventualities. Frankly
> calling the emergency contact listed on the entry form may not be the most
> efficient method, in part because many list not very useful things like
> "Mike Murray" or their mother back in Chicago. We have often contacted
> family members for people that are transported to the hospital either by
> ambulance or by private vehicle, particularly when it is clear that the
> person is going to be incapacitated. It is also very common for us to help
> coordinate transportation by a friend or teammate. I think that each
> individual situation requires evaluation and then an appropriate response.
> This is complicated in the situation like last weekend when the EMS response
> was activated by a bystander not associated with the race and details of the
> crash and who was involved were not available until some time later when the
> on the road officials return in with the still racing field. This is really
> not a major problem. After all, a 2 hour wait for your wife to pick you up
> at the ED is not all that big a deal in the grand scheme of things and is
> probably part of doing business in this sport as well as many others. I can
> tell you from personal and business experience that getting injured while
> skiing is a much bigger deal, can cause a lot longer time and expense with
> transportation and the ski area does not feel compelled to contact your
> family.
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Galen Mittermann
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 14:21 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3 Crash
>
>
> Without debating national health care policy here, does OBRA have a policy
> on when to call the emergency contact listed on the waiver forms? I have
> always been lucky enough to crash directly in front of my girlfriend, and
> thus have had the 'friends and family' immediately present to haul my sorry
> butt to and from medical care. If, however, I crashed and was hospitalized
> at an OBRA event and was alone, I would hope that someone would give that
> number on the form a ring and let them know that I was being shipped off.
>
> Since current hospital policy is not to provide for transport once
> discharged, can we as a community do a small part to see that the ball at
> least has a chance to get rolling on taking care of our members after they
> are released? I think that making sure that the emergency number gets called
> and the contact informed is both sufficient and a minimum of community
> responsibility, and it certainly is not unreasonable.
>
> GM
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

A policy would be difficult to make to cover all eventualities. Frankly
calling the emergency contact listed on the entry form may not be the most
efficient method, in part because many list not very useful things like
"Mike Murray" or their mother back in Chicago. We have often contacted
family members for people that are transported to the hospital either by
ambulance or by private vehicle, particularly when it is clear that the
person is going to be incapacitated. It is also very common for us to help
coordinate transportation by a friend or teammate. I think that each
individual situation requires evaluation and then an appropriate response.
This is complicated in the situation like last weekend when the EMS response
was activated by a bystander not associated with the race and details of the
crash and who was involved were not available until some time later when the
on the road officials return in with the still racing field. This is really
not a major problem. After all, a 2 hour wait for your wife to pick you up
at the ED is not all that big a deal in the grand scheme of things and is
probably part of doing business in this sport as well as many others. I can
tell you from personal and business experience that getting injured while
skiing is a much bigger deal, can cause a lot longer time and expense with
transportation and the ski area does not feel compelled to contact your
family.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Galen Mittermann
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 14:21 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3 Crash

Without debating national health care policy here, does OBRA have a policy
on when to call the emergency contact listed on the waiver forms? I have
always been lucky enough to crash directly in front of my girlfriend, and
thus have had the 'friends and family' immediately present to haul my sorry
butt to and from medical care. If, however, I crashed and was hospitalized
at an OBRA event and was alone, I would hope that someone would give that
number on the form a ring and let them know that I was being shipped off.

Since current hospital policy is not to provide for transport once
discharged, can we as a community do a small part to see that the ball at
least has a chance to get rolling on taking care of our members after they
are released? I think that making sure that the emergency number gets called
and the contact informed is both sufficient and a minimum of community
responsibility, and it certainly is not unreasonable.

GM
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

jon.ragsdale@comcast.net

And to add to what Jess said, when filling out the forms (race waivers or team lists), as somebody that has hosted a few TKD tourneys, make them legible. I had to try and call a wife of a competitor who broke his ankle and I couldn't read his writing. Luckily I was able to guess on one number and only had to call 3 others before I got ahold of her.

Jon

PS - And for those that have seen my writing, remind me of what I just said when I fill them out. LOL

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Jess Mace"
> Just food for thought..
> We as a team have compiled an emergency contact list that each of us
> carries in their car in case one of us is injured...Rob Anderson was
> instrument in pursing such a team policy after he unfortunately broke a
> collarbone two years back at Bananna Belt. It helps get the ball
> rolling in terms of hospital contacts, family contacts, etc. with the
> expectation, as a team, these things will get worked out and taken care
> of while our member is being attended to medically.
>
> Instead of arguing and debating national health care policies on a
> racing forum, why not be a BIT more proactive in establishing these
> contact lists within your teams. As Galen stated, we all sign release
> waiver which have contact information on them...its up to you whether or
> not you want to write in 9-1-1 or not (as I know a lot of folks do) but
> there may be repurcussions for such an answer....such as being stuck at
> the hospital after a short stay. As for the unattached
> riders...well...good luck to ya (totally joking).
>
> Some health care systems do provide free transportation services from
> the hospital (United Kingdom). Ours, currently, does not...but I'm 100%
> positive Hospital Services does have contacts for transporation if
> requested by the patient. Instead of bickering relentlessly about it
> for no apparent reason for days on-end, be proactive and cover your own
> bases as much as possible before you even toe the line at a race...
>
> If a promoter wants to provide the service, wonderful. Should you
> expect your ER doc. to leave his job during his/her shift to give you a
> ride back to your car at a race venue miles away? Hardly.
>
>
>
> Jess C. Mace, MPH
> Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
> for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
> Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
> Oregon Health & Science University
> 503.494.5886
>
> >>> "Galen Mittermann" 5/27/2008 2:21 PM >>>
> Without debating national health care policy here, does OBRA have a
> policy on when to call the emergency contact listed on the waiver forms?
> I have always been lucky enough to crash directly in front of my
> girlfriend, and thus have had the 'friends and family' immediately
> present to haul my sorry butt to and from medical care. If, however, I
> crashed and was hospitalized at an OBRA event and was alone, I would
> hope that someone would give that number on the form a ring and let them
> know that I was being shipped off.
>
> Since current hospital policy is not to provide for transport once
> discharged, can we as a community do a small part to see that the ball
> at least has a chance to get rolling on taking care of our members after
> they are released? I think that making sure that the emergency number
> gets called and the contact informed is both sufficient and a minimum of
> community responsibility, and it certainly is not unreasonable.
>
> GM
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Candi Murray

On another almost related subject. Our local ambulance and life flight
organizations have a program that if you join for an annual rate of
$50/$100. They will then accept your insurance payment for transport and not
attempt to collect on the balance. Just one trip in an ambulance, or heaven
forbid life flight makes this a dynamite deal.

Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jess Mace
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 2:36 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org; gmitt98@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3 Crash

Just food for thought..
We as a team have compiled an emergency contact list that each of us carries
in their car in case one of us is injured...Rob Anderson was instrument in
pursing such a team policy after he unfortunately broke a collarbone two
years back at Bananna Belt. It helps get the ball rolling in terms of
hospital contacts, family contacts, etc. with the expectation, as a team,
these things will get worked out and taken care of while our member is being
attended to medically.

Instead of arguing and debating national health care policies on a racing
forum, why not be a BIT more proactive in establishing these contact lists
within your teams. As Galen stated, we all sign release waiver which have
contact information on them...its up to you whether or not you want to write
in 9-1-1 or not (as I know a lot of folks do) but there may be repurcussions
for such an answer....such as being stuck at
the hospital after a short stay. As for the unattached
riders...well...good luck to ya (totally joking).

Some health care systems do provide free transportation services from the
hospital (United Kingdom). Ours, currently, does not...but I'm 100%
positive Hospital Services does have contacts for transporation if requested
by the patient. Instead of bickering relentlessly about it for no apparent
reason for days on-end, be proactive and cover your own bases as much as
possible before you even toe the line at a race...

If a promoter wants to provide the service, wonderful. Should you expect
your ER doc. to leave his job during his/her shift to give you a ride back
to your car at a race venue miles away? Hardly.

Jess C. Mace, MPH
Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
Oregon Health & Science University
503.494.5886

>>> "Galen Mittermann" 5/27/2008 2:21 PM >>>
Without debating national health care policy here, does OBRA have a policy
on when to call the emergency contact listed on the waiver forms? I have
always been lucky enough to crash directly in front of my girlfriend, and
thus have had the 'friends and family' immediately present to haul my sorry
butt to and from medical care. If, however, I crashed and was hospitalized
at an OBRA event and was alone, I would hope that someone would give that
number on the form a ring and let them know that I was being shipped off.

Since current hospital policy is not to provide for transport once
discharged, can we as a community do a small part to see that the ball at
least has a chance to get rolling on taking care of our members after they
are released? I think that making sure that the emergency number gets called
and the contact informed is both sufficient and a minimum of community
responsibility, and it certainly is not unreasonable.

GM
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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Jess Mace

Just food for thought..
We as a team have compiled an emergency contact list that each of us
carries in their car in case one of us is injured...Rob Anderson was
instrument in pursing such a team policy after he unfortunately broke a
collarbone two years back at Bananna Belt. It helps get the ball
rolling in terms of hospital contacts, family contacts, etc. with the
expectation, as a team, these things will get worked out and taken care
of while our member is being attended to medically.

Instead of arguing and debating national health care policies on a
racing forum, why not be a BIT more proactive in establishing these
contact lists within your teams. As Galen stated, we all sign release
waiver which have contact information on them...its up to you whether or
not you want to write in 9-1-1 or not (as I know a lot of folks do) but
there may be repurcussions for such an answer....such as being stuck at
the hospital after a short stay. As for the unattached
riders...well...good luck to ya (totally joking).

Some health care systems do provide free transportation services from
the hospital (United Kingdom). Ours, currently, does not...but I'm 100%
positive Hospital Services does have contacts for transporation if
requested by the patient. Instead of bickering relentlessly about it
for no apparent reason for days on-end, be proactive and cover your own
bases as much as possible before you even toe the line at a race...

If a promoter wants to provide the service, wonderful. Should you
expect your ER doc. to leave his job during his/her shift to give you a
ride back to your car at a race venue miles away? Hardly.

Jess C. Mace, MPH
Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
Oregon Health & Science University
503.494.5886

>>> "Galen Mittermann" 5/27/2008 2:21 PM >>>
Without debating national health care policy here, does OBRA have a
policy on when to call the emergency contact listed on the waiver forms?
I have always been lucky enough to crash directly in front of my
girlfriend, and thus have had the 'friends and family' immediately
present to haul my sorry butt to and from medical care. If, however, I
crashed and was hospitalized at an OBRA event and was alone, I would
hope that someone would give that number on the form a ring and let them
know that I was being shipped off.

Since current hospital policy is not to provide for transport once
discharged, can we as a community do a small part to see that the ball
at least has a chance to get rolling on taking care of our members after
they are released? I think that making sure that the emergency number
gets called and the contact informed is both sufficient and a minimum of
community responsibility, and it certainly is not unreasonable.

GM
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Galen Mittermann

Without debating national health care policy here, does OBRA have a policy on when to call the emergency contact listed on the waiver forms? I have always been lucky enough to crash directly in front of my girlfriend, and thus have had the 'friends and family' immediately present to haul my sorry butt to and from medical care. If, however, I crashed and was hospitalized at an OBRA event and was alone, I would hope that someone would give that number on the form a ring and let them know that I was being shipped off.

Since current hospital policy is not to provide for transport once discharged, can we as a community do a small part to see that the ball at least has a chance to get rolling on taking care of our members after they are released? I think that making sure that the emergency number gets called and the contact informed is both sufficient and a minimum of community responsibility, and it certainly is not unreasonable.

GM

Geoff Hill

I have excellent health insurance and it does NOT cover rides home
from the hospital. Neither will national health care. Call a cab.

On May 27, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Ed wrote:

> I'm not drunk, poor, or without friends, but this happened to me too.
>
> Hospitals should never release people to the street.
>
> Attitudes, such as the one below, are among the reasons why we will
> have National Health Care in America. Until then, God help us all.
>
> Mike Murray wrote:
> As an ED doc I have to point out that people arriving by ambulance
> and then having no way to get home is at least a daily, if not a
> several times per day event. Of course often these are people that
> have few resources, are intoxicated or otherwise socially
> disadvantaged. Somewhat ironically, they often think that it is our
> responsibility, as the medical care providers, to figure this one
> out for them. I am often tempted to ask them if we should also try
> to figure out how to pay their rent or buy them groceries too.
>
> I think that Mike is to be commended in planning to cover this issue
> for people but it is certainly not something that he, or any other
> race organizer, is responsible for. The people that pointed out
> that this is what friends and family members are for are correct.
> After all, what good are friends if you don't use them? There is
> also the option of taxi, public transportation, car rental, etc.
> although this is often expensive, time consuming and difficult to
> arrange in many areas. Friends, and good ones, are generally more
> dependable.
>
>
> Mike Murray
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On Behalf Of J.Michael Manning
> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 16:06 PM
> To: markjginsberg@yahoo.com; chuck; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash
>
> Well it appears that the consensus is against me. Let me make it
> clear that I am not criticizing OBRA or the guys at Three Rivers
> Racing. Nonetheless, I will provide this service at my race in the
> event that a rider may need assistance. In my 25 years of racing,
> though I have crashed numerous times, it is the first time I have
> been hospitalized. Neither have I been in a situation where I felt
> responsible for another athlete. It was simply an eye opener, as I
> had to wait at the hospital for almost 2 hours after being
> discharged. That gave me plenty of time to think it over.
> Mike
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 15:51:28 -0700
> From: markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; broncos0797321@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash
>
> sorry, Mike,
> I am with Chuck on this one, while it is hard to get back FROM the
> hospital, the race doesn't owe that to you.
>
> Mark
>
> "J.Michael Manning" wrote:
> Yeah...that sounds simple enough. But it doesn't always work that
> way. I was accompanied by one of my athletes who was scheduled to
> race at 2:00 and he was not notified by the officials until 10
> minutes before his start time. Besides, he should not have to miss
> his race because of my misfortune.
> Mike Manning
>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:18:55 -0700
> > From: broncos0797321@yahoo.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash
> >
> > The system I have relied on is called teammates:)
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. Help
> protect your kids._______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
> Attorney At Law
> 1216 SE Belmont St.
> Portland, OR 97214
> (503) 542-3000
> Fax (503) 233-6874
> markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> www.bikesafetylaw.com
>
> Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsof
> t.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

I think you misunderstand. This does not happen just to the intoxicated or
disenfranchised but it does happen to them more frequently. Of course, the
ED patient population is more often intoxicated and disenfranchised then
other populations. It is interesting to get criticized for an attitude when
I spend much of my life caring for this group without compensation.

We do not release people to the street unless it is their desire to go
there. People that have resources are, of course, expected to provide for
their own needs. Mike Manning, and evidently Ed, are people that have
resources. Medical care providers should not be held responsible for
transporting them home any more than any other business would be. After
all, we are not in the transportation business. If people have no resources
we often pay for transportation to wherever they are going. We give them
clothing if theirs has been damaged. We feed them if they ask for food
while they are there. We attempt to find housing for those that have none.
The cost of providing that care is part of the high medical bills that the
rest of us pay. When we get national health care the cost will instead come
from high taxes or decreased governmental services in other areas as nothing
comes from nothing.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ed
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 13:29 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash

I'm not drunk, poor, or without friends, but this happened to me too.

Hospitals should never release people to the street.

Attitudes, such as the one below, are among the reasons why we will have
National Health Care in America. Until then, God help us all.

Mike Murray wrote:

As an ED doc I have to point out that people arriving by ambulance and then
having no way to get home is at least a daily, if not a several times per
day event. Of course often these are people that have few resources, are
intoxicated or otherwise socially disadvantaged. Somewhat ironically, they
often think that it is our responsibility, as the medical care providers, to
figure this one out for them. I am often tempted to ask them if we should
also try to figure out how to pay their rent or buy them groceries too.

I think that Mike is to be commended in planning to cover this issue for
people but it is certainly not something that he, or any other race
organizer, is responsible for. The people that pointed out that this is
what friends and family members are for are correct. After all, what good
are friends if you don't use them? There is also the option of taxi, public
transportation, car rental, etc. although this is often expensive, time
consuming and difficult to arrange in many areas. Friends, and good ones,
are generally more dependable.


Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of J.Michael Manning
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 16:06 PM
To: markjginsberg@yahoo.com; chuck; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash

Well it appears that the consensus is against me. Let me make it clear that
I am not criticizing OBRA or the guys at Three Rivers Racing. Nonetheless, I
will provide this service at my race in the event that a rider may need
assistance. In my 25 years of racing, though I have crashed numerous times,
it is the first time I have been hospitalized. Neither have I been in a
situation where I felt responsible for another athlete. It was simply an eye
opener, as I had to wait at the hospital for almost 2 hours after being
discharged. That gave me plenty of time to think it over.
Mike

_____

Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 15:51:28 -0700
From: markjginsberg@yahoo.com
To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; broncos0797321@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash

sorry, Mike,
I am with Chuck on this one, while it is hard to get back FROM the hospital,
the race doesn't owe that to you.

Mark

"J.Michael Manning" wrote:

Yeah...that sounds simple enough. But it doesn't always work that way. I was
accompanied by one of my athletes who was scheduled to race at 2:00 and he
was not notified by the officials until 10 minutes before his start time.
Besides, he should not have to miss his race because of my misfortune.
Mike Manning

_____

> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:18:55 -0700
> From: broncos0797321@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash
>
> The system I have relied on is called teammates:)
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

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your

kids._______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

_____

Change the world with e-mail. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ed

I'm not drunk, poor, or without friends, but this happened to me too.

Hospitals should never release people to the street.

Attitudes, such as the one below, are among the reasons why we will have National Health Care in America. Until then, God help us all.

Mike Murray wrote:
.hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } As an ED doc I have to point out that people arriving by ambulance and then having no way to get home is at least a daily, if not a several times per day event. Of course often these are people that have few resources, are intoxicated or otherwise socially disadvantaged. Somewhat ironically, they often think that it is our responsibility, as the medical care providers, to figure this one out for them. I am often tempted to ask them if we should also try to figure out how to pay their rent or buy them groceries too.

I think that Mike is to be commended in planning to cover this issue for people but it is certainly not something that he, or any other race organizer, is responsible for. The people that pointed out that this is what friends and family members are for are correct. After all, what good are friends if you don't use them? There is also the option of taxi, public transportation, car rental, etc. although this is often expensive, time consuming and difficult to arrange in many areas. Friends, and good ones, are generally more dependable.


Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of J.Michael Manning
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 16:06 PM
To: markjginsberg@yahoo.com; chuck; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash

Well it appears that the consensus is against me. Let me make it clear that I am not criticizing OBRA or the guys at Three Rivers Racing. Nonetheless, I will provide this service at my race in the event that a rider may need assistance. In my 25 years of racing, though I have crashed numerous times, it is the first time I have been hospitalized. Neither have I been in a situation where I felt responsible for another athlete. It was simply an eye opener, as I had to wait at the hospital for almost 2 hours after being discharged. That gave me plenty of time to think it over.
Mike

---------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 15:51:28 -0700
From: markjginsberg@yahoo.com
To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; broncos0797321@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash

sorry, Mike,
I am with Chuck on this one, while it is hard to get back FROM the hospital, the race doesn't owe that to you.

Mark

"J.Michael Manning" wrote: .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } Yeah...that sounds simple enough. But it doesn't always work that way. I was accompanied by one of my athletes who was scheduled to race at 2:00 and he was not notified by the officials until 10 minutes before his start time. Besides, he should not have to miss his race because of my misfortune.
Mike Manning

---------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:18:55 -0700
> From: broncos0797321@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash
>
> The system I have relied on is called teammates:)
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. Help protect your kids._______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

---------------------------------
Change the world with e-mail. Join the i?m Initiative from Microsoft. _______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

As an ED doc I have to point out that people arriving by ambulance and then
having no way to get home is at least a daily, if not a several times per
day event. Of course often these are people that have few resources, are
intoxicated or otherwise socially disadvantaged. Somewhat ironically, they
often think that it is our responsibility, as the medical care providers, to
figure this one out for them. I am often tempted to ask them if we should
also try to figure out how to pay their rent or buy them groceries too.

I think that Mike is to be commended in planning to cover this issue for
people but it is certainly not something that he, or any other race
organizer, is responsible for. The people that pointed out that this is
what friends and family members are for are correct. After all, what good
are friends if you don't use them? There is also the option of taxi, public
transportation, car rental, etc. although this is often expensive, time
consuming and difficult to arrange in many areas. Friends, and good ones,
are generally more dependable.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of J.Michael Manning
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 16:06 PM
To: markjginsberg@yahoo.com; chuck; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash

Well it appears that the consensus is against me. Let me make it clear that
I am not criticizing OBRA or the guys at Three Rivers Racing. Nonetheless, I
will provide this service at my race in the event that a rider may need
assistance. In my 25 years of racing, though I have crashed numerous times,
it is the first time I have been hospitalized. Neither have I been in a
situation where I felt responsible for another athlete. It was simply an eye
opener, as I had to wait at the hospital for almost 2 hours after being
discharged. That gave me plenty of time to think it over.
Mike

_____

Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 15:51:28 -0700
From: markjginsberg@yahoo.com
To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; broncos0797321@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash

sorry, Mike,
I am with Chuck on this one, while it is hard to get back FROM the hospital,
the race doesn't owe that to you.

Mark

"J.Michael Manning" wrote:

Yeah...that sounds simple enough. But it doesn't always work that way. I was
accompanied by one of my athletes who was scheduled to race at 2:00 and he
was not notified by the officials until 10 minutes before his start time.
Besides, he should not have to miss his race because of my misfortune.
Mike Manning

_____

> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:18:55 -0700
> From: broncos0797321@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash
>
> The system I have relied on is called teammates:)
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. Help protect
your

kids._______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

_____

Change the world with e-mail. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.

J.Michael Manning

Well it appears that the consensus is against me. Let me make it clear that I am not criticizing OBRA or the guys at Three Rivers Racing. Nonetheless, I will provide this service at my race in the event that a rider may need assistance. In my 25 years of racing, though I have crashed numerous times, it is the first time I have been hospitalized. Neither have I been in a situation where I felt responsible for another athlete. It was simply an eye opener, as I had to wait at the hospital for almost 2 hours after being discharged. That gave me plenty of time to think it over.
Mike

Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 15:51:28 -0700
From: markjginsberg@yahoo.com
To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; broncos0797321@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash

sorry, Mike,
I am with Chuck on this one, while it is hard to get back FROM the hospital, the race doesn't owe that to you.

Mark

"J.Michael Manning" wrote: Yeah...that sounds simple enough. But it doesn't always work that way. I was accompanied by one of my athletes who was scheduled to race at 2:00 and he was not notified by the officials until 10 minutes before his start time. Besides, he should not have to miss his race because of my misfortune.
Mike Manning

> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:18:55 -0700
> From: broncos0797321@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3
crash
>
> The system I have relied on is called teammates:)
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. Help protect your kids._______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

_________________________________________________________________
Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft.
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Mark J. Ginsberg

sorry, Mike,
I am with Chuck on this one, while it is hard to get back FROM the hospital, the race doesn't owe that to you.

Mark

"J.Michael Manning" wrote: .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Yeah...that sounds simple enough. But it doesn't always work that way. I was accompanied by one of my athletes who was scheduled to race at 2:00 and he was not notified by the officials until 10 minutes before his start time. Besides, he should not have to miss his race because of my misfortune.
Mike Manning

---------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:18:55 -0700
> From: broncos0797321@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash
>
> The system I have relied on is called teammates:)
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. Help protect your kids._______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

Candi Murray

But an official should? Or one of the race volunteers?
that would be nice, but that is what family and teammates are for.

Candi

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of J.Michael Manning
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 3:01 PM
To: chuck; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash

Yeah...that sounds simple enough. But it doesn't always work that way. I was
accompanied by one of my athletes who was scheduled to race at 2:00 and he
was not notified by the officials until 10 minutes before his start time.
Besides, he should not have to miss his race because of my misfortune.
Mike Manning

_____

> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:18:55 -0700
> From: broncos0797321@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash
>
> The system I have relied on is called teammates:)
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. Help protect
your kids.

J.Michael Manning

Yeah...that sounds simple enough. But it doesn't always work that way. I was accompanied by one of my athletes who was scheduled to race at 2:00 and he was not notified by the officials until 10 minutes before his start time. Besides, he should not have to miss his race because of my misfortune.
Mike Manning

> Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:18:55 -0700
> From: broncos0797321@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cat 3 crash
>
> The system I have relied on is called teammates:)
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_family_safety_052008

chuck

The system I have relied on is called teammates:)

J.Michael Manning

Hey Clint,
Glad you are going to be okay! I thought you looked pretty bad lying there on the pavement. I'm the guy you took out when you hit the pothole...it was as if you just suddenly landed on top of me. I'm also the other guy that went to the hospital. The EMT folks were on top of things immediately and did a fantastic job! They strapped me to a gurney and I was seen by a doctor within 30 minutes. Everyone involved were attentive and personable. Although it appears that I have no injuries (minor road rash), I cannot walk due to slamming my low back onto the pavement after somersaulting over the bars. In fact, almost any movement of any kind involving my low back sends fire shooting down my left buttocks. X-rays revealed no permanent damage (no breakage or puncture wounds). So I am being sedated with the best drugs designed for this situation. I'm certain I will be well soon enough...hopefully in time to race this course again in a few weeks.

One of the things that this incident brought to light was the fact that there is no system in place for transport away from the hospital. Once I arrived there, nobody had any ideas about how I was going to get back to the race venue where all my gear was (Jeep w/trailer,bikes, etc...) Ultimately, I called my wife in Portland to drive to Longview and take me back to the race scene. I think it's worth developing a plan in such emergencies in the future. I am promoting and directing the Sunset Criterium on Aug 9th. Having been in this situation, I will be sure that we have someone on the race staff who can perform those duties if necessary. Perhaps OBRA officials should consider this foe all races. Just a thought!

Clint, next time I race I will look you up. Better luck in the future.

J.Michael Manning
CycleOne LLC

> Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 21:17:11 -0700
> From: clint_kathy@verizon.net
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3 crash
>
> Hey - I just wanted to send out a big thank you to the EMT racer (sorry, I didn't get your name) and the Obra folks who helped at the crash. And also an apology to those who went down and/or couldn't finish their race. I hit a hole while getting a drink which caused me to run into the guy on my left. I thought we were going to be OK but something must have got tangled up 'cause the next thing I knew my face hit the pavement. I lost one tooth and several are loose, took about 20 stitches in my lips, but luckily no other injuries to speak of.
>
> Clint
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David Auker

Stuff happens! Sorry to hear of your bumpin' the pavement! Reminds me
of starting to slide out in a tight curve in the Crockett-Martinez RR in
N Cal...I really didn't want to go down, and instinctively steered the
direction I was sliding, overdoing it so that it was worse: I went over
the top onto my face. Ouch! Counter-steering is something you don't
get to practice much, and I think it's very easy to overdo. I found
that true in my van on ice one time, too.

David

Clint wrote:
> Hey - I just wanted to send out a big thank you to the EMT racer (sorry, I didn't get your name) and the Obra folks who helped at the crash. And also an apology to those who went down and/or couldn't finish their race. I hit a hole while getting a drink which caused me to run into the guy on my left. I thought we were going to be OK but something must have got tangled up 'cause the next thing I knew my face hit the pavement. I lost one tooth and several are loose, took about 20 stitches in my lips, but luckily no other injuries to speak of.
>
> Clint
> _______________________________________________
>

Clint

Hey - I just wanted to send out a big thank you to the EMT racer (sorry, I didn't get your name) and the Obra folks who helped at the crash. And also an apology to those who went down and/or couldn't finish their race. I hit a hole while getting a drink which caused me to run into the guy on my left. I thought we were going to be OK but something must have got tangled up 'cause the next thing I knew my face hit the pavement. I lost one tooth and several are loose, took about 20 stitches in my lips, but luckily no other injuries to speak of.

Clint

Saul Lopez

Mike from Finnegan's suffered a broken right collarbone and wrist. He said someone cut him off and could not react. I was sitting around 10 or 12th place at the time (he was probably 3 riders in front of me) and rode over his back, endoed, and have some nice road rash, sore neck, and split helmet. Mike got the brunt of it from what I could tell. Rob Anderson from Team O also may have suffered a dislocated shoulder. Tim from Guiness also went down. Hope Mike and Rob a speedy recovery.

Keep it safe out there.

Saul

Richard Haight wrote:
I feel badly about the crash today. As is often the case, its hard to know entirely what happened. Regardless, for whatever part I may have played, I apologize. I know the Finnegan's man went down pretty hard, I sat up and looked back but could not see who else was impacted. After the race I asked around but most of the teams did not seem to know. To whomever it was, I wish you a speedy recovery.
Richard Haight

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