gschreckchat@comcast.net

Also last time I checked, they are all Shimano 9 speed.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mike Murray"

> OBRA does have a neutral wheel program. We have, as I recall, 15-20
> identical blue Mavic wheels. You have probably seen them all on top of
> Roger's car. The catch is that, as people have pointed out, maintaining all
> the wheels, transporting them to races, putting them in follow vehicles,
> running them down after races, etc. not to mention storing them between
> races, is a considerable chore (Thanks Roger!). Because this is such a
> chore there is an additional fee (not very large) that the promoter pays to
> have these wheel brought to his race. Some decide to do it and some decide
> to depend on volunteer wheels.
>
> The other problem is that there are only enough wheel in this program to
> support 1 or 2 fields and most races have more than that out on the road.
> So ... Even if the OBRA wheels come there is still a need for volunteer
> wheels.
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Quenton Conant
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 13:40 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>
>
> I too believe it would be nice to have a neutral wheel pool, but I think
> that it would end up being a giant hassle and organizational nightmare.
> Organizing simple things is hard enough. Who in their RIGHT mind would want
> to take that on for every race?
>
> Maybe some shops would be willing to donate some cheapies and maintain them.
>
>
> I'd be more than happy to donate an old wheel or two for that. The only
> problems would be quality, and accountability. Who is going to guarantee
> that the neutral wheels are up to snuff, and safe to ride and then be
> accountable if they aren't? That would make it pretty burdonsome on OBRA. E
>
> ither psycologically or legally I don't know. Who wants to think that maybe
> it was their donated set of wheels that failed under someone? Keeping track
> of who got what wheels, and would they always be returned?
>
> Wheels in/Wheels out lets the individual be responsible and accountable only
> to themselves. It doesn't sound like it's really a gender issue, but just
> bad luck that noone brought wheels. The issue that Michelle brings up sounds
> like she's saying that support should be targeted towards a certain income
> bracket, or social-economic status.
>
> Wouldn't that be better? Making racing more accessible to those who have the
> desire but not the means, regardless of sex or gender. The race fee's are
> cheap enough! it's the equipment that kills...
>
> carbonfiber vs steel doesn't seem applicable in the cat 3-4-5 group it's
> more about the engine and the strategy anyways at this level. But by finding
> ways to provide safe reliable equipment to people who couldn't otherwise
> afford it would not only improve their quality of life but provide diversity
> and more competition; hence, making races even more fun and challenging!
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

OBRA does have a neutral wheel program. We have, as I recall, 15-20
identical blue Mavic wheels. You have probably seen them all on top of
Roger's car. The catch is that, as people have pointed out, maintaining all
the wheels, transporting them to races, putting them in follow vehicles,
running them down after races, etc. not to mention storing them between
races, is a considerable chore (Thanks Roger!). Because this is such a
chore there is an additional fee (not very large) that the promoter pays to
have these wheel brought to his race. Some decide to do it and some decide
to depend on volunteer wheels.

The other problem is that there are only enough wheel in this program to
support 1 or 2 fields and most races have more than that out on the road.
So ... Even if the OBRA wheels come there is still a need for volunteer
wheels.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Quenton Conant
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 13:40 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support

I too believe it would be nice to have a neutral wheel pool, but I think
that it would end up being a giant hassle and organizational nightmare.
Organizing simple things is hard enough. Who in their RIGHT mind would want
to take that on for every race?

Maybe some shops would be willing to donate some cheapies and maintain them.

I'd be more than happy to donate an old wheel or two for that. The only
problems would be quality, and accountability. Who is going to guarantee
that the neutral wheels are up to snuff, and safe to ride and then be
accountable if they aren't? That would make it pretty burdonsome on OBRA. E

ither psycologically or legally I don't know. Who wants to think that maybe
it was their donated set of wheels that failed under someone? Keeping track
of who got what wheels, and would they always be returned?

Wheels in/Wheels out lets the individual be responsible and accountable only
to themselves. It doesn't sound like it's really a gender issue, but just
bad luck that noone brought wheels. The issue that Michelle brings up sounds
like she's saying that support should be targeted towards a certain income
bracket, or social-economic status.

Wouldn't that be better? Making racing more accessible to those who have the
desire but not the means, regardless of sex or gender. The race fee's are
cheap enough! it's the equipment that kills...

carbonfiber vs steel doesn't seem applicable in the cat 3-4-5 group it's
more about the engine and the strategy anyways at this level. But by finding
ways to provide safe reliable equipment to people who couldn't otherwise
afford it would not only improve their quality of life but provide diversity
and more competition; hence, making races even more fun and challenging!

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

For a while in Canada (many years ago) carrying a pump and a spare in a road
race was required by the rules. Back then this was a bit easier to check
for since all tires were tubulars and pumps were frame pumps. This made it
easy to see if you were complying just by looking at you and the bike. If
we went to that rule today officials would need to check everybody's
pockets.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Raedeke, John
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 10:55 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support

I think we should try doing road races like mountain bike races and if you
flat you fix it yourself with what you are carrying in your own jersey. Then
there is no question as to who put wheels in or took them out. And the
support car will be there for injuries and the like...

jr

Quenton Conant

Easily said when you're born on third base and think you hit a tripple. :)
Michelle

wow! so because someone doesn't agree with you, or can find a way to continue their passion, you assume they it must be because they had a privaleged life? Even if they did, why fault them for that? they had no controll what they're born into.

Why couldn't you afford a new wheel? didn't you work at a bike shop? don't your friends have crazy hookups? I know that when I'm in need my friends help me out untill I can take care of whatever it is, as they've repeatedly proven.

Hell, I live on a shoestring, and I still find ways to make sure I stay rolling.

and it's easy to see how someone could extrapolate what you said to mean that an entire sex is helpless... when in fact the ability to procure and supply wheels rules has no constraints like that for adults (juniors being a different story). But then again I guess there is an unspoken rule that there must be a victim somewhere eh?

now, it's time to go read some real email.

anyways... cheers to all of you out in OBRA land.

john

Actually Belay that. I am going to correct myself: Please have a mechanic check any dented wheel. Don't ride on anything that may break ! I am a mechanical engineer / and ex bicycle mechanic, and been racing riding for 20 years, i usually know where the limits and safety line is at, you may or may not ! and I don't compromise safety.

john wrote:
Obviously if the dented rim is being ridden on, then it is not dangerous. Actually i can't really think of situation where a dented rim would be dangerous. Obviously it is not a localized dent in the rim wall, or the brakes would grab (and easily fixed with a channellock style pliers..), but rather an overall dent that gives a hop or out-of-true.

A hop or out of true is not that big of a deal... for my track bike's rear wheel i used a pretty badly bent rim and just trued it with spoke tension. Yeah some spokes were a lot tighter than others, but that not a big deal either, as long as all of them stay tight, and yes the wheel will stay true... (usually doesn't work for a 8/910 speed wheel with a lot of dish though, cause the non drive spokes are too loose, that is, already close to failure, failure being when preload is lost..) Yeah i had little bit of hop and a little out of true, but not bad.

It is also a great way to recycle, that is, to use things to the end of there useful life. I re-use spokes, I patch cuts in tires (a couple of nicely placed stitches with fishing line then covered with patch), re-use dented rims, fix broken steel frames.... Obviously don't be stupid here, handlebars / stems, front forks, cranks, pedals, chain, should never be items that have questionable integrity. To each his own, but in my humble opinion some people race on really fancy equipment like deep carbon rims that are $$$ (compared to my wheels, which my fanciest at the most cost $100), especially for a early season mens 4 race, and especially to be doing agressive and dangerous blocking antics for mile after mile, and especially when it would have been nice to teach some paceline skills to some of the new young 4's... :-)

There is something to be said about the simplicity of having just one bicycle with one set wheels and just keeping that bicycle going. Add wheels and you add tires, tubes, cogs cassettes, just extra complication... much more simple to just ride/race with what you got. Especially if you already have a single speed, or commutter bike... mtb bike that you ride around town on..

When i placed my spare set of wheels beside the sign for the Women's 4, womens masters 4/5 group, there were already two sets of wheels there. I also added a front to the mens 4 group (which i subsequently used), which at the time only had one set. I think what happened is they put the masters 1,2,3 women with masters 4 womens rather then all the 4's together ?

Sorry I wrote this before i now see there is a lot more emails !!

Ahh its all fun. from, John

gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
Then why did they ever let her race with a dented rim? Very dangerous. One of the benefits of a team is to assist each other.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Quenton Conant

> She does belong to a team.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org _______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

john m schmidt
portland oregon_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

john m schmidt
portland oregon

gschreckchat@comcast.net

I think the real solution is if everyone raced on the new Stalingrad wheels that we heard about on April 1, 2006. they are bomb proof, literally.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mike Bene"
i recently heard about messenger races where entrants race on rims with no tubes or tires. perhaps this would be a good solution for obra.

mike

On 4/3/07, Raedeke, John wrote:
I think we should try doing road races like mountain bike races and if
you flat you fix it yourself with what you are carrying in your own
jersey. Then there is no question as to who put wheels in or took them
out. And the support car will be there for injuries and the like...

jr

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Cipale
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:20 PM
To: lisa graham
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support

Not to mention Craigslist and ebay.

lisa graham wrote:

> Maybe it depends on how badly you want to walk back....spare wheels
> can be = found...you just need to be proactive and look .
> We traded a mountain bike for for race wheels and put the everyday
> wheels i= n the wheel car, you can find wheels on many of the lists
> at cheap prices = and in the bike stores or borrow from a friend.
> Or walk
> Lisa
=
> ----- Original Message
> -----= =20
> From: Edward Kendrick Sr=20
> To: obra@list.obra.org=20
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>
>
> VERY true! Look for an open-admission team or find out the
> requirements = of an invite-only team. If a rider feels like she/he
> is on an island, a co= hesive team will improve their experience.
>
>
> "Meadors, Ivan C"
> < ivan.c.meadors@intel.com om>> wrote:
> To Michelle (and any others who might benefit from support of a
team
> environment);
>
> Are you currently racing with a team?
>
> If not, you might wish to consider joining a team, thus possibly
> creating a more beneficial support system for your racing
adventures.
> Having a more dedicated resource to work with (i.e., team members
in
> your peer group), would likely help both you (for your personal
growth),
> as well as the team, in that racing tactics might possibly be
applied
> (or merely through ride-sharing to events and pre-/post-race
support).
> And a team-mate might also be more inclined to share the wealth of
the
> team by ensuring that wheels could be made available for race
support
> from team members who might be more financially established.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of michelle
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:42 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>
> Howdy OBRAland-
> Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression
from
> personal expereince:
> I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare
wheels
> are clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear
wheel all
> last season because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for
sympathy
> or even a free wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have
the
> spare wheel (and I'm pretty sure all of those who chastized do),
You
> might think a little more about supporting women in cycling and
donated
> them to their nuetral pit instead of assuming that we've got them
and
> were just too lazy to bring them. That's my impression of how a
> supportive comminity would work.
>
> THANKS!
> Michelle Savoie
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----=
> ---
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels=20
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo!
> Travel chpage;_ylc=3DX3oDMTFtaTIzNXVjBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk0ODEEcG9zAzIE
> c2VjA=
> 21haWx0YWdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS0wNw--> to find your
> 21haWx0YWdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS0wNw--> fit._________________________=
> ______________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

john

Obviously if the dented rim is being ridden on, then it is not dangerous. Actually i can't really think of situation where a dented rim would be dangerous. Obviously it is not a localized dent in the rim wall, or the brakes would grab (and easily fixed with a channellock style pliers..), but rather an overall dent that gives a hop or out-of-true.

A hop or out of true is not that big of a deal... for my track bike's rear wheel i used a pretty badly bent rim and just trued it with spoke tension. Yeah some spokes were a lot tighter than others, but that not a big deal either, as long as all of them stay tight, and yes the wheel will stay true... (usually doesn't work for a 8/910 speed wheel with a lot of dish though, cause the non drive spokes are too loose, that is, already close to failure, failure being when preload is lost..) Yeah i had little bit of hop and a little out of true, but not bad.

It is also a great way to recycle, that is, to use things to the end of there useful life. I re-use spokes, I patch cuts in tires (a couple of nicely placed stitches with fishing line then covered with patch), re-use dented rims, fix broken steel frames.... Obviously don't be stupid here, handlebars / stems, front forks, cranks, pedals, chain, should never be items that have questionable integrity. To each his own, but in my humble opinion some people race on really fancy equipment like deep carbon rims that are $$$ (compared to my wheels, which my fanciest at the most cost $100), especially for a early season mens 4 race, and especially to be doing agressive and dangerous blocking antics for mile after mile, and especially when it would have been nice to teach some paceline skills to some of the new young 4's... :-)

There is something to be said about the simplicity of having just one bicycle with one set wheels and just keeping that bicycle going. Add wheels and you add tires, tubes, cogs cassettes, just extra complication... much more simple to just ride/race with what you got. Especially if you already have a single speed, or commutter bike... mtb bike that you ride around town on..

When i placed my spare set of wheels beside the sign for the Women's 4, womens masters 4/5 group, there were already two sets of wheels there. I also added a front to the mens 4 group (which i subsequently used), which at the time only had one set. I think what happened is they put the masters 1,2,3 women with masters 4 womens rather then all the 4's together ?

Sorry I wrote this before i now see there is a lot more emails !!

Ahh its all fun. from, John

gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
Then why did they ever let her race with a dented rim? Very dangerous. One of the benefits of a team is to assist each other.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Quenton Conant

> She does belong to a team.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org _______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

john m schmidt
portland oregon

Edward Kendrick Sr

most guys would give up their entire bike for a home run

Michelle Savoie wrote:

Easily said when you're born on third base and think you hit a tripple. :)
Michelle

> ________________________________
> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
> > CC: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> > Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:54:50 +0000
> >
> > The solution is simple for adults. Make sure you have equipment, and bring it. If the women cannot suppport themsleves and need to rely on the men to do it for you, then I give up. I would think you would want to support yourselves and not depend on the men to do it for you. If you think I am chastizing you, yes I am. I expect more responsibility out of an adult, male or female, and apparently, you believe that the women have no obligation to take care of their racing needs and the men should rescue you. I hoped that you would have more pride. The women I ride with would not have your attitude.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your friends are close to you. Keep them that way.
> http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx

_________________________________________________________________
i'm making a difference. Make every IM count for the cause of your choice. Join Now.
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Mike Bene

i recently heard about messenger races where entrants race on rims with no
tubes or tires. perhaps this would be a good solution for obra.

mike

On 4/3/07, Raedeke, John wrote:
>
> I think we should try doing road races like mountain bike races and if
> you flat you fix it yourself with what you are carrying in your own
> jersey. Then there is no question as to who put wheels in or took them
> out. And the support car will be there for injuries and the like...
>
> jr
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Joe Cipale
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:20 PM
> To: lisa graham
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>
> Not to mention Craigslist and ebay.
>
> lisa graham wrote:
>
> > Maybe it depends on how badly you want to walk back....spare wheels
> > can be = found...you just need to be proactive and look .
> > We traded a mountain bike for for race wheels and put the everyday
> > wheels i= n the wheel car, you can find wheels on many of the lists
> > at cheap prices = and in the bike stores or borrow from a friend.
> > Or walk
> > Lisa
> =
> > ----- Original Message
> > -----= =20
> > From: Edward Kendrick Sr=20
> > To: obra@list.obra.org=20
> > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> >
> >
> > VERY true! Look for an open-admission team or find out the
> > requirements = of an invite-only team. If a rider feels like she/he
> > is on an island, a co= hesive team will improve their experience.
> >
> >
> > "Meadors, Ivan C"
> > > om>> wrote:
> > To Michelle (and any others who might benefit from support of a
> team
> > environment);
> >
> > Are you currently racing with a team?
> >
> > If not, you might wish to consider joining a team, thus possibly
> > creating a more beneficial support system for your racing
> adventures.
> > Having a more dedicated resource to work with (i.e., team members
> in
> > your peer group), would likely help both you (for your personal
> growth),
> > as well as the team, in that racing tactics might possibly be
> applied
> > (or merely through ride-sharing to events and pre-/post-race
> support).
> > And a team-mate might also be more inclined to share the wealth of
> the
> > team by ensuring that wheels could be made available for race
> support
> > from team members who might be more financially established.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of michelle
> > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:42 PM
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> >
> > Howdy OBRAland-
> > Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression
> from
> > personal expereince:
> > I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare
> wheels
> > are clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear
> wheel all
> > last season because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for
> sympathy
> > or even a free wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have
> the
> > spare wheel (and I'm pretty sure all of those who chastized do),
> You
> > might think a little more about supporting women in cycling and
> donated
> > them to their nuetral pit instead of assuming that we've got them
> and
> > were just too lazy to bring them. That's my impression of how a
> > supportive comminity would work.
> >
> > THANKS!
> > Michelle Savoie
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -----=
> > ---
> > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels=20
> > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo!
> > Travel > chpage;_ylc=3DX3oDMTFtaTIzNXVjBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk0ODEEcG9zAzIE
> > c2VjA=
> > 21haWx0YWdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS0wNw--> to find your
> > 21haWx0YWdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS0wNw--> fit._________________________=
> > ______________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Raedeke, John

I think we should try doing road races like mountain bike races and if
you flat you fix it yourself with what you are carrying in your own
jersey. Then there is no question as to who put wheels in or took them
out. And the support car will be there for injuries and the like...

jr

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Cipale
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:20 PM
To: lisa graham
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support

Not to mention Craigslist and ebay.

lisa graham wrote:

> Maybe it depends on how badly you want to walk back....spare wheels
> can be = found...you just need to be proactive and look .
> We traded a mountain bike for for race wheels and put the everyday
> wheels i= n the wheel car, you can find wheels on many of the lists
> at cheap prices = and in the bike stores or borrow from a friend.
> Or walk
> Lisa
=
> ----- Original Message
> -----= =20
> From: Edward Kendrick Sr=20
> To: obra@list.obra.org=20
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>
>
> VERY true! Look for an open-admission team or find out the
> requirements = of an invite-only team. If a rider feels like she/he
> is on an island, a co= hesive team will improve their experience.
>
>
> "Meadors, Ivan C"
> om>> wrote:
> To Michelle (and any others who might benefit from support of a
team
> environment);
>
> Are you currently racing with a team?
>
> If not, you might wish to consider joining a team, thus possibly
> creating a more beneficial support system for your racing
adventures.
> Having a more dedicated resource to work with (i.e., team members
in
> your peer group), would likely help both you (for your personal
growth),
> as well as the team, in that racing tactics might possibly be
applied
> (or merely through ride-sharing to events and pre-/post-race
support).
> And a team-mate might also be more inclined to share the wealth of
the
> team by ensuring that wheels could be made available for race
support
> from team members who might be more financially established.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of michelle
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:42 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>
> Howdy OBRAland-
> Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression
from
> personal expereince:
> I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare
wheels
> are clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear
wheel all
> last season because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for
sympathy
> or even a free wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have
the
> spare wheel (and I'm pretty sure all of those who chastized do),
You
> might think a little more about supporting women in cycling and
donated
> them to their nuetral pit instead of assuming that we've got them
and
> were just too lazy to bring them. That's my impression of how a
> supportive comminity would work.
>
> THANKS!
> Michelle Savoie
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----=
> ---
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> Travel chpage;_ylc=3DX3oDMTFtaTIzNXVjBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk0ODEEcG9zAzIE
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Greg Crane

Congratulations, this last e-mail has triggered an
auto smart ass reply, this topic has has now been
kicked to death and I feel free to be an A-hole.

Smart ass reply: George, you have you not leaned the
lesson of Blanch DuBois. You needs to "learn to
depend on the kindness of strangers", and didn't
everything work out great for Blanch?

Greg

--- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:

> The solution is simple for adults. Make sure you
> have equipment, and bring it. If the women cannot
> suppport themsleves and need to rely on the men to
> do it for you, then I give up. I would think you
> would want to support yourselves and not depend on
> the men to do it for you. If you think I am
> chastizing you, yes I am. I expect more
> responsibility out of an adult, male or female, and
> apparently, you believe that the women have no
> obligation to take care of their racing needs and
> the men should rescue you. I hoped that you would
> have more pride. The women I ride with would not
> have your attitude.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Michelle Savoie
>
> >
> > George et al-
> > First I would like to reiderate my original point,
> which was that instead of
> > chastising, and ASSUMING that others were simply
> too lazy to bring wheel you
> > might consider offering solutions to the problem.
> Solutions that would actually
> > make a difference that is. Not just silly advice
> that anyone could have
> > extrapolated from the situation such as "bring
> wheels". From your messages, you
> > have clearly continued to make assumptions...oh
> well.
> > Thanks to all the others who seemed to appreciate
> my spirit of community and
> > sharing and offered thier old wheels as neutral
> support. You guys rock! Despite
> > the naysayers, I'm going to talk to Candi and see
> if we can get something worked
> > out for the smaller juniors and ladies feilds. :)
> >
> > Michelle
> >
> > PS...On an aside you can safely ride a dented
> wheel...if it its the right kind
> > of dent.
> > George I sure hope to see you at a cross race this
> fall, so I can return the
> > favor of slinging some mud at you. ;)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net "I was born on
> third base and think I hit a
> > tripple"
> > > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
> > > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> > > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 21:05:06 +0000
> > >
> > > You clearly miss the point, and are
> extrapolating your personal situation to
> > an entire foeld of women. the equality is that
> each field supplies its own
> > wheels without regard to sex. There are other
> women in the womens' races that
> > have extra wheels and scan provide them. To ask
> otherwise, is to expec the men
> > to provide wheels to the women becuase they are
> too lazy to do so, heich is not
> > equality. The men's field's do not share wheels
> with other men's field's, so
> > based on equality, there is no reason for them to
> share with the women's fields.
> > For some reason, you have extrapolated your
> personal lack of wheels to the
> > entire women's flield, and I assure you that I
> personally know that many of the
> > women have multiple bikes and sets off wheels, so
> this is not about you depsite
> > the fact that you seem to have directed the
> discussion in that way. All you need
> > is a few women to bring wheels, and the women can
> take care of themselves as do
> > the men. That is equality. Each field takes care
> of itself, no matter the sex.
> > > --
> > > George Schreck
> > > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > (503) 502-0425
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: Michelle Savoie
> > > George-
> > > The community I belong to is not segregated. Not
> by sex, race, income, or the
> > like. For me, being treated as equal means
> recieving the same as others. So if
> > you would offer a wheel to a man, I'd say any
> woman's feild is good enough to
> > recieve it too. It makes no difference to me if a
> man over a woman offers me
> > support, if I need it. I don't feel "hapless" just
> becuase I can not buy spare
> > wheels. I consider that I am living within my
> means and acheiveing what I can.
> > I'm happy to have gotten where I am.
> > > Michelle
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
> > > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> > > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 20:39:48 +0000
> > > But why. You women have your own field and are
> adult capable of taking care of
> > yourselves. Even though I understand that you
> cannot add a wheel, I do not see
> > why some of the other women cannot. I happen to
> know that many of the women in
> > all the women's fields have a number of bikes and
> extra wheels and can easily
> > provide the support. I do not understand why the
> men should be expected to
> > provide some support when many of the women can
> and are just too lazy to do so.
> > If women want to be treated as equals, then women
> should not be relying on the
> > men to provide their race equipment. I assume you
> do not want women to be
> > treated as hapless creatures who need to be take
> care of, and would rather be
> > treated as equal participants. The women can an
> should be able to supply the
> > equipment they need. I understand why you cannot,
> and I easily accept that, but
> > you need to look to the other women who race, who
> I assure you can easily pr
> > ovide the necessary wheels. I suggest you direct
> your comment to the women who
> > were racing around you. As for your dented wheel,
> I hope you have fixed it as it
> > could cause your tire to blow off the rim orr the
> wheel to fold. Your health is
> > worht more than the cost of a wheel, and I would
> prefer to loan you a wheel for
> > that purpose than to allow other women to avoid
> the effort of bringing their
> > trianing wheels to put in the car.
> > > --
> > > George Schreck
> > > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > (503) 502-0425
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: Michelle Savoie
> > > George with all do respect please re-read my
> original text:
> > > "I'm not looking for sympathy or even a free
> > > wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have
> the spare wheel (and I'm
> > > pretty sure all of those who chastized do), you
> might think a little more
> > about
> > > supporting women in cycling and donated them to
> their nuetral pit instead of
> > > assuming that we've got them and were just too
> lazy to bring them. "
> > > No where in there did I say you NEED to support
> anyone but yourself. I asked
> > that you consider the fact that you could do a lot
> more to support a community
> > by offering your extras instead of assuming
> everyone else has them.
> > > With regards,
> > > Michelle
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> > > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 19:56:08 +0000
> > > Why are we supposed to supply wheels to support
> your races? I use my spare
> > wheels for the support in my races. Even if you do
> not have wheels, I am sure
> > that the other women in your race do. If there is
> a women's field, the women
> > should support it.
> > > --
> > > George Schreck
> > > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > (503) 502-0425
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: michelle
> > > > Howdy OBRAland-
> > > > Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here
> is my impression from personal
> > > > expereince:
> > > > I can barely afford to own a bike much less
> pay for races...spare wheels are
>
=== message truncated ===>
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> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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gschreckchat@comcast.net

Good idea. A few people have contacted me personally, and i have responded that way. As far as i am concerned, i stated my point, and i am done. If someone wants to explore this further, send me a private message.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Suz Weldon

> Can we beat this topic to death any more? Too much drama on this
> list! Was a public reprimand really necessary? If you want to argue
> back and forth, take it to private email, people!
>
> Quoting gschreckchat@comcast.net:
>
> > The solution is simple for adults. Make sure you have equipment,
> > and bring it. If the women cannot suppport themsleves and need to
> > rely on the men to do it for you, then I give up. I would think you
> > would want to support yourselves and not depend on the men to do it
> > for you. If you think I am chastizing you, yes I am. I expect
> > more responsibility out of an adult, male or female, and
> > apparently, you believe that the women have no obligation to take
> > care of their racing needs and the men should rescue you. I hoped
> > that you would have more pride. The women I ride with would not
> > have your attitude.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Michelle Savoie
> >
> >>
> >> George et al-
> >> First I would like to reiderate my original point, which was that instead of
> >> chastising, and ASSUMING that others were simply too lazy to bring wheel you
> >> might consider offering solutions to the problem. Solutions that
> >> would actually
> >> make a difference that is. Not just silly advice that anyone could have
> >> extrapolated from the situation such as "bring wheels". From your
> >> messages, you
> >> have clearly continued to make assumptions...oh well.
> >> Thanks to all the others who seemed to appreciate my spirit of community and
> >> sharing and offered thier old wheels as neutral support. You guys
> >> rock! Despite
> >> the naysayers, I'm going to talk to Candi and see if we can get
> >> something worked
> >> out for the smaller juniors and ladies feilds. :)
> >>
> >> Michelle
> >>
> >> PS...On an aside you can safely ride a dented wheel...if it its the
> >> right kind
> >> of dent.
> >> George I sure hope to see you at a cross race this fall, so I can return the
> >> favor of slinging some mud at you. ;)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net "I was born on third base and think I hit a
> >> tripple"
> >> > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
> >> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> >> > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 21:05:06 +0000
> >> >
> >> > You clearly miss the point, and are extrapolating your personal
> >> situation to
> >> an entire foeld of women. the equality is that each field supplies its own
> >> wheels without regard to sex. There are other women in the womens'
> >> races that
> >> have extra wheels and scan provide them. To ask otherwise, is to
> >> expec the men
> >> to provide wheels to the women becuase they are too lazy to do so,
> >> heich is not
> >> equality. The men's field's do not share wheels with other men's field's, so
> >> based on equality, there is no reason for them to share with the
> >> women's fields.
> >> For some reason, you have extrapolated your personal lack of wheels to the
> >> entire women's flield, and I assure you that I personally know that
> >> many of the
> >> women have multiple bikes and sets off wheels, so this is not about
> >> you depsite
> >> the fact that you seem to have directed the discussion in that way.
> >> All you need
> >> is a few women to bring wheels, and the women can take care of
> >> themselves as do
> >> the men. That is equality. Each field takes care of itself, no
> >> matter the sex.
> >> > --
> >> > George Schreck
> >> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >> > (503) 502-0425
> >> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >> > From: Michelle Savoie
> >> > George-
> >> > The community I belong to is not segregated. Not by sex, race,
> >> income, or the
> >> like. For me, being treated as equal means recieving the same as
> >> others. So if
> >> you would offer a wheel to a man, I'd say any woman's feild is good
> >> enough to
> >> recieve it too. It makes no difference to me if a man over a woman offers me
> >> support, if I need it. I don't feel "hapless" just becuase I can
> >> not buy spare
> >> wheels. I consider that I am living within my means and acheiveing
> >> what I can.
> >> I'm happy to have gotten where I am.
> >> > Michelle
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >> > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
> >> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> >> > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 20:39:48 +0000
> >> > But why. You women have your own field and are adult capable of
> >> taking care of
> >> yourselves. Even though I understand that you cannot add a wheel, I
> >> do not see
> >> why some of the other women cannot. I happen to know that many of
> >> the women in
> >> all the women's fields have a number of bikes and extra wheels and
> >> can easily
> >> provide the support. I do not understand why the men should be expected to
> >> provide some support when many of the women can and are just too
> >> lazy to do so.
> >> If women want to be treated as equals, then women should not be
> >> relying on the
> >> men to provide their race equipment. I assume you do not want women to be
> >> treated as hapless creatures who need to be take care of, and would
> >> rather be
> >> treated as equal participants. The women can an should be able to supply the
> >> equipment they need. I understand why you cannot, and I easily
> >> accept that, but
> >> you need to look to the other women who race, who I assure you can easily pr
> >> ovide the necessary wheels. I suggest you direct your comment to
> >> the women who
> >> were racing around you. As for your dented wheel, I hope you have
> >> fixed it as it
> >> could cause your tire to blow off the rim orr the wheel to fold.
> >> Your health is
> >> worht more than the cost of a wheel, and I would prefer to loan you
> >> a wheel for
> >> that purpose than to allow other women to avoid the effort of bringing their
> >> trianing wheels to put in the car.
> >> > --
> >> > George Schreck
> >> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >> > (503) 502-0425
> >> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >> > From: Michelle Savoie
> >> > George with all do respect please re-read my original text:
> >> > "I'm not looking for sympathy or even a free
> >> > wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the spare wheel (and I'm
> >> > pretty sure all of those who chastized do), you might think a little more
> >> about
> >> > supporting women in cycling and donated them to their nuetral pit
> >> instead of
> >> > assuming that we've got them and were just too lazy to bring them. "
> >> > No where in there did I say you NEED to support anyone but
> >> yourself. I asked
> >> that you consider the fact that you could do a lot more to support
> >> a community
> >> by offering your extras instead of assuming everyone else has them.
> >> > With regards,
> >> > Michelle
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >> > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> >> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> >> > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 19:56:08 +0000
> >> > Why are we supposed to supply wheels to support your races? I use my spare
> >> wheels for the support in my races. Even if you do not have wheels,
> >> I am sure
> >> that the other women in your race do. If there is a women's field, the women
> >> should support it.
> >> > --
> >> > George Schreck
> >> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >> > (503) 502-0425
> >> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >> > From: michelle
> >> > > Howdy OBRAland-
> >> > > Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression
> >> from personal
> >> > > expereince:
> >> > > I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for
> >> races...spare wheels are
> >> > > clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all last
> >> season
> >> > > because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy or
> >> even a free
> >> > > wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the spare
> >> wheel (and I'm
> >> > > pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You might think a
> >> little more
> >> about
> >> > > supporting women in cycling and donated them to their nuetral
> >> pit instead of
> >> > > assuming that we've got them and were just too lazy to bring
> >> them. That's my
> >> > > impression of how a supportive comminity would work.
> >> > >
> >> > > THANKS!
> >> > > Michelle Savoie
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > OBRA mailing list
> >> > > obra@list.obra.org
> >> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > Take a break and play crossword puzzles - FREE! Play Now!
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > It?s tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips Check it out!
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Live Search Maps ? find all the local information you need, right
> >> when you need
> >> it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=wlmtag2&FORM=MGAC01
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

gschreckchat@comcast.net

Poor dear. The world owes you. I just found out that not onoly are you on a team, but you work at a bike shop. Must be difficult to get a wheel. All I assume is that the women would want to take care of themselves as a group, and the women I know have enough pride and self respect to insist on that and support each other.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Michelle Savoie

>
> Easily said when you're born on third base and think you hit a tripple. :)
> Michelle
>
>
> > ________________________________
> > > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
> > > CC: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> > > Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:54:50 +0000
> > >
> > > The solution is simple for adults. Make sure you have equipment, and bring
> it. If the women cannot suppport themsleves and need to rely on the men to do
> it for you, then I give up. I would think you would want to support yourselves
> and not depend on the men to do it for you. If you think I am chastizing you,
> yes I am. I expect more responsibility out of an adult, male or female, and
> apparently, you believe that the women have no obligation to take care of their
> racing needs and the men should rescue you. I hoped that you would have more
> pride. The women I ride with would not have your attitude.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Your friends are close to you. Keep them that way.
> > http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> i'm making a difference. Make every IM count for the cause of your choice. Join
> Now.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://im.live
> .com/messenger/im/home/?source=wlmailtagline
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Michelle Savoie

Easily said when you're born on third base and think you hit a tripple. :)
Michelle

> ________________________________
> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
> > CC: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> > Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:54:50 +0000
> >
> > The solution is simple for adults. Make sure you have equipment, and bring it. If the women cannot suppport themsleves and need to rely on the men to do it for you, then I give up. I would think you would want to support yourselves and not depend on the men to do it for you. If you think I am chastizing you, yes I am. I expect more responsibility out of an adult, male or female, and apparently, you believe that the women have no obligation to take care of their racing needs and the men should rescue you. I hoped that you would have more pride. The women I ride with would not have your attitude.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your friends are close to you. Keep them that way.
> http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx

_________________________________________________________________
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Suz Weldon

Can we beat this topic to death any more? Too much drama on this
list! Was a public reprimand really necessary? If you want to argue
back and forth, take it to private email, people!

Quoting gschreckchat@comcast.net:

> The solution is simple for adults. Make sure you have equipment,
> and bring it. If the women cannot suppport themsleves and need to
> rely on the men to do it for you, then I give up. I would think you
> would want to support yourselves and not depend on the men to do it
> for you. If you think I am chastizing you, yes I am. I expect
> more responsibility out of an adult, male or female, and
> apparently, you believe that the women have no obligation to take
> care of their racing needs and the men should rescue you. I hoped
> that you would have more pride. The women I ride with would not
> have your attitude.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Michelle Savoie
>
>>
>> George et al-
>> First I would like to reiderate my original point, which was that instead of
>> chastising, and ASSUMING that others were simply too lazy to bring wheel you
>> might consider offering solutions to the problem. Solutions that
>> would actually
>> make a difference that is. Not just silly advice that anyone could have
>> extrapolated from the situation such as "bring wheels". From your
>> messages, you
>> have clearly continued to make assumptions...oh well.
>> Thanks to all the others who seemed to appreciate my spirit of community and
>> sharing and offered thier old wheels as neutral support. You guys
>> rock! Despite
>> the naysayers, I'm going to talk to Candi and see if we can get
>> something worked
>> out for the smaller juniors and ladies feilds. :)
>>
>> Michelle
>>
>> PS...On an aside you can safely ride a dented wheel...if it its the
>> right kind
>> of dent.
>> George I sure hope to see you at a cross race this fall, so I can return the
>> favor of slinging some mud at you. ;)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net "I was born on third base and think I hit a
>> tripple"
>> > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
>> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>> > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 21:05:06 +0000
>> >
>> > You clearly miss the point, and are extrapolating your personal
>> situation to
>> an entire foeld of women. the equality is that each field supplies its own
>> wheels without regard to sex. There are other women in the womens'
>> races that
>> have extra wheels and scan provide them. To ask otherwise, is to
>> expec the men
>> to provide wheels to the women becuase they are too lazy to do so,
>> heich is not
>> equality. The men's field's do not share wheels with other men's field's, so
>> based on equality, there is no reason for them to share with the
>> women's fields.
>> For some reason, you have extrapolated your personal lack of wheels to the
>> entire women's flield, and I assure you that I personally know that
>> many of the
>> women have multiple bikes and sets off wheels, so this is not about
>> you depsite
>> the fact that you seem to have directed the discussion in that way.
>> All you need
>> is a few women to bring wheels, and the women can take care of
>> themselves as do
>> the men. That is equality. Each field takes care of itself, no
>> matter the sex.
>> > --
>> > George Schreck
>> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
>> > (503) 502-0425
>> > -------------- Original message --------------
>> > From: Michelle Savoie
>> > George-
>> > The community I belong to is not segregated. Not by sex, race,
>> income, or the
>> like. For me, being treated as equal means recieving the same as
>> others. So if
>> you would offer a wheel to a man, I'd say any woman's feild is good
>> enough to
>> recieve it too. It makes no difference to me if a man over a woman offers me
>> support, if I need it. I don't feel "hapless" just becuase I can
>> not buy spare
>> wheels. I consider that I am living within my means and acheiveing
>> what I can.
>> I'm happy to have gotten where I am.
>> > Michelle
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>> > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
>> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>> > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 20:39:48 +0000
>> > But why. You women have your own field and are adult capable of
>> taking care of
>> yourselves. Even though I understand that you cannot add a wheel, I
>> do not see
>> why some of the other women cannot. I happen to know that many of
>> the women in
>> all the women's fields have a number of bikes and extra wheels and
>> can easily
>> provide the support. I do not understand why the men should be expected to
>> provide some support when many of the women can and are just too
>> lazy to do so.
>> If women want to be treated as equals, then women should not be
>> relying on the
>> men to provide their race equipment. I assume you do not want women to be
>> treated as hapless creatures who need to be take care of, and would
>> rather be
>> treated as equal participants. The women can an should be able to supply the
>> equipment they need. I understand why you cannot, and I easily
>> accept that, but
>> you need to look to the other women who race, who I assure you can easily pr
>> ovide the necessary wheels. I suggest you direct your comment to
>> the women who
>> were racing around you. As for your dented wheel, I hope you have
>> fixed it as it
>> could cause your tire to blow off the rim orr the wheel to fold.
>> Your health is
>> worht more than the cost of a wheel, and I would prefer to loan you
>> a wheel for
>> that purpose than to allow other women to avoid the effort of bringing their
>> trianing wheels to put in the car.
>> > --
>> > George Schreck
>> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
>> > (503) 502-0425
>> > -------------- Original message --------------
>> > From: Michelle Savoie
>> > George with all do respect please re-read my original text:
>> > "I'm not looking for sympathy or even a free
>> > wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the spare wheel (and I'm
>> > pretty sure all of those who chastized do), you might think a little more
>> about
>> > supporting women in cycling and donated them to their nuetral pit
>> instead of
>> > assuming that we've got them and were just too lazy to bring them. "
>> > No where in there did I say you NEED to support anyone but
>> yourself. I asked
>> that you consider the fact that you could do a lot more to support
>> a community
>> by offering your extras instead of assuming everyone else has them.
>> > With regards,
>> > Michelle
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>> > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
>> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>> > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 19:56:08 +0000
>> > Why are we supposed to supply wheels to support your races? I use my spare
>> wheels for the support in my races. Even if you do not have wheels,
>> I am sure
>> that the other women in your race do. If there is a women's field, the women
>> should support it.
>> > --
>> > George Schreck
>> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
>> > (503) 502-0425
>> > -------------- Original message --------------
>> > From: michelle
>> > > Howdy OBRAland-
>> > > Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression
>> from personal
>> > > expereince:
>> > > I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for
>> races...spare wheels are
>> > > clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all last
>> season
>> > > because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy or
>> even a free
>> > > wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the spare
>> wheel (and I'm
>> > > pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You might think a
>> little more
>> about
>> > > supporting women in cycling and donated them to their nuetral
>> pit instead of
>> > > assuming that we've got them and were just too lazy to bring
>> them. That's my
>> > > impression of how a supportive comminity would work.
>> > >
>> > > THANKS!
>> > > Michelle Savoie
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > OBRA mailing list
>> > > obra@list.obra.org
>> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> > ________________________________
>> > Take a break and play crossword puzzles - FREE! Play Now!
>> > ________________________________
>> > It?s tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips Check it out!
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Live Search Maps ? find all the local information you need, right
>> when you need
>> it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=wlmtag2&FORM=MGAC01

gschreckchat@comcast.net

The solution is simple for adults. Make sure you have equipment, and bring it. If the women cannot suppport themsleves and need to rely on the men to do it for you, then I give up. I would think you would want to support yourselves and not depend on the men to do it for you. If you think I am chastizing you, yes I am. I expect more responsibility out of an adult, male or female, and apparently, you believe that the women have no obligation to take care of their racing needs and the men should rescue you. I hoped that you would have more pride. The women I ride with would not have your attitude.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Michelle Savoie

>
> George et al-
> First I would like to reiderate my original point, which was that instead of
> chastising, and ASSUMING that others were simply too lazy to bring wheel you
> might consider offering solutions to the problem. Solutions that would actually
> make a difference that is. Not just silly advice that anyone could have
> extrapolated from the situation such as "bring wheels". From your messages, you
> have clearly continued to make assumptions...oh well.
> Thanks to all the others who seemed to appreciate my spirit of community and
> sharing and offered thier old wheels as neutral support. You guys rock! Despite
> the naysayers, I'm going to talk to Candi and see if we can get something worked
> out for the smaller juniors and ladies feilds. :)
>
> Michelle
>
> PS...On an aside you can safely ride a dented wheel...if it its the right kind
> of dent.
> George I sure hope to see you at a cross race this fall, so I can return the
> favor of slinging some mud at you. ;)
>
>
>
>
> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net "I was born on third base and think I hit a
> tripple"
> > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 21:05:06 +0000
> >
> > You clearly miss the point, and are extrapolating your personal situation to
> an entire foeld of women. the equality is that each field supplies its own
> wheels without regard to sex. There are other women in the womens' races that
> have extra wheels and scan provide them. To ask otherwise, is to expec the men
> to provide wheels to the women becuase they are too lazy to do so, heich is not
> equality. The men's field's do not share wheels with other men's field's, so
> based on equality, there is no reason for them to share with the women's fields.
> For some reason, you have extrapolated your personal lack of wheels to the
> entire women's flield, and I assure you that I personally know that many of the
> women have multiple bikes and sets off wheels, so this is not about you depsite
> the fact that you seem to have directed the discussion in that way. All you need
> is a few women to bring wheels, and the women can take care of themselves as do
> the men. That is equality. Each field takes care of itself, no matter the sex.
> > --
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Michelle Savoie
> > George-
> > The community I belong to is not segregated. Not by sex, race, income, or the
> like. For me, being treated as equal means recieving the same as others. So if
> you would offer a wheel to a man, I'd say any woman's feild is good enough to
> recieve it too. It makes no difference to me if a man over a woman offers me
> support, if I need it. I don't feel "hapless" just becuase I can not buy spare
> wheels. I consider that I am living within my means and acheiveing what I can.
> I'm happy to have gotten where I am.
> > Michelle
> > ________________________________
> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 20:39:48 +0000
> > But why. You women have your own field and are adult capable of taking care of
> yourselves. Even though I understand that you cannot add a wheel, I do not see
> why some of the other women cannot. I happen to know that many of the women in
> all the women's fields have a number of bikes and extra wheels and can easily
> provide the support. I do not understand why the men should be expected to
> provide some support when many of the women can and are just too lazy to do so.
> If women want to be treated as equals, then women should not be relying on the
> men to provide their race equipment. I assume you do not want women to be
> treated as hapless creatures who need to be take care of, and would rather be
> treated as equal participants. The women can an should be able to supply the
> equipment they need. I understand why you cannot, and I easily accept that, but
> you need to look to the other women who race, who I assure you can easily pr
> ovide the necessary wheels. I suggest you direct your comment to the women who
> were racing around you. As for your dented wheel, I hope you have fixed it as it
> could cause your tire to blow off the rim orr the wheel to fold. Your health is
> worht more than the cost of a wheel, and I would prefer to loan you a wheel for
> that purpose than to allow other women to avoid the effort of bringing their
> trianing wheels to put in the car.
> > --
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Michelle Savoie
> > George with all do respect please re-read my original text:
> > "I'm not looking for sympathy or even a free
> > wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the spare wheel (and I'm
> > pretty sure all of those who chastized do), you might think a little more
> about
> > supporting women in cycling and donated them to their nuetral pit instead of
> > assuming that we've got them and were just too lazy to bring them. "
> > No where in there did I say you NEED to support anyone but yourself. I asked
> that you consider the fact that you could do a lot more to support a community
> by offering your extras instead of assuming everyone else has them.
> > With regards,
> > Michelle
> > ________________________________
> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > To: savoiemr@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> > Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 19:56:08 +0000
> > Why are we supposed to supply wheels to support your races? I use my spare
> wheels for the support in my races. Even if you do not have wheels, I am sure
> that the other women in your race do. If there is a women's field, the women
> should support it.
> > --
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: michelle
> > > Howdy OBRAland-
> > > Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression from personal
> > > expereince:
> > > I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare wheels are
> > > clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all last
> season
> > > because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy or even a free
> > > wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the spare wheel (and I'm
> > > pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You might think a little more
> about
> > > supporting women in cycling and donated them to their nuetral pit instead of
> > > assuming that we've got them and were just too lazy to bring them. That's my
> > > impression of how a supportive comminity would work.
> > >
> > > THANKS!
> > > Michelle Savoie
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > ________________________________
> > Take a break and play crossword puzzles - FREE! Play Now!
> > ________________________________
> > It?s tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips Check it out!
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Live Search Maps ? find all the local information you need, right when you need
> it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=wlmtag2&FORM=MGAC01

Michelle Savoie

George et al-
First I would like to reiderate my original point, which was that instead of chastising, and ASSUMING that others were simply too lazy to bring wheel you might consider offering solutions to the problem. Solutions that would actually make a difference that is. Not just silly advice that anyone could have extrapolated from the situation such as "bring wheels". From your messages, you have clearly continued to make assumptions...oh well.
Thanks to all the others who seemed to appreciate my spirit of community and sharing and offered thier old wheels as neutral support. You guys rock! Despite the naysayers, I'm going to talk to Candi and see if we can get something worked out for the smaller juniors and ladies feilds. :)

Michelle

PS...On an aside you can safely ride a dented wheel...if it its the right kind of dent.
George I sure hope to see you at a cross race this fall, so I can return the favor of slinging some mud at you. ;)

> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net "I was born on third base and think I hit a tripple"
> To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 21:05:06 +0000
>
> You clearly miss the point, and are extrapolating your personal situation to an entire foeld of women. the equality is that each field supplies its own wheels without regard to sex. There are other women in the womens' races that have extra wheels and scan provide them. To ask otherwise, is to expec the men to provide wheels to the women becuase they are too lazy to do so, heich is not equality. The men's field's do not share wheels with other men's field's, so based on equality, there is no reason for them to share with the women's fields. For some reason, you have extrapolated your personal lack of wheels to the entire women's flield, and I assure you that I personally know that many of the women have multiple bikes and sets off wheels, so this is not about you depsite the fact that you seem to have directed the discussion in that way. All you need is a few women to bring wheels, and the women can take care of themselves as do the men. That is equality. Each field takes care of itself, no matter the sex.
> --
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Michelle Savoie
> George-
> The community I belong to is not segregated. Not by sex, race, income, or the like. For me, being treated as equal means recieving the same as others. So if you would offer a wheel to a man, I'd say any woman's feild is good enough to recieve it too. It makes no difference to me if a man over a woman offers me support, if I need it. I don't feel "hapless" just becuase I can not buy spare wheels. I consider that I am living within my means and acheiveing what I can. I'm happy to have gotten where I am.
> Michelle
> ________________________________
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: savoiemr@hotmail.com
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 20:39:48 +0000
> But why. You women have your own field and are adult capable of taking care of yourselves. Even though I understand that you cannot add a wheel, I do not see why some of the other women cannot. I happen to know that many of the women in all the women's fields have a number of bikes and extra wheels and can easily provide the support. I do not understand why the men should be expected to provide some support when many of the women can and are just too lazy to do so. If women want to be treated as equals, then women should not be relying on the men to provide their race equipment. I assume you do not want women to be treated as hapless creatures who need to be take care of, and would rather be treated as equal participants. The women can an should be able to supply the equipment they need. I understand why you cannot, and I easily accept that, but you need to look to the other women who race, who I assure you can easily pr ovide the necessary wheels. I suggest you direct your comment to the women who were racing around you. As for your dented wheel, I hope you have fixed it as it could cause your tire to blow off the rim orr the wheel to fold. Your health is worht more than the cost of a wheel, and I would prefer to loan you a wheel for that purpose than to allow other women to avoid the effort of bringing their trianing wheels to put in the car.
> --
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Michelle Savoie
> George with all do respect please re-read my original text:
> "I'm not looking for sympathy or even a free
> wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the spare wheel (and I'm
> pretty sure all of those who chastized do), you might think a little more about
> supporting women in cycling and donated them to their nuetral pit instead of
> assuming that we've got them and were just too lazy to bring them. "
> No where in there did I say you NEED to support anyone but yourself. I asked that you consider the fact that you could do a lot more to support a community by offering your extras instead of assuming everyone else has them.
> With regards,
> Michelle
> ________________________________
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: savoiemr@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 19:56:08 +0000
> Why are we supposed to supply wheels to support your races? I use my spare wheels for the support in my races. Even if you do not have wheels, I am sure that the other women in your race do. If there is a women's field, the women should support it.
> --
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: michelle
> > Howdy OBRAland-
> > Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression from personal
> > expereince:
> > I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare wheels are
> > clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all last season
> > because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy or even a free
> > wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the spare wheel (and I'm
> > pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You might think a little more about
> > supporting women in cycling and donated them to their nuetral pit instead of
> > assuming that we've got them and were just too lazy to bring them. That's my
> > impression of how a supportive comminity would work.
> >
> > THANKS!
> > Michelle Savoie
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> ________________________________
> Take a break and play crossword puzzles - FREE! Play Now!
> ________________________________
> It’s tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips Check it out!

_________________________________________________________________
Live Search Maps – find all the local information you need, right when you need it.
http://maps.live.com/?icid=wlmtag2&FORM=MGAC01

gschreckchat@comcast.net

Then why did they ever let her race with a dented rim? Very dangerous. One of the benefits of a team is to assist each other.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Quenton Conant

> She does belong to a team.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Quenton Conant

She does belong to a team.

Joe Cipale

Not to mention Craigslist and ebay.

lisa graham wrote:

> Maybe it depends on how badly you want to walk back....spare wheels can be =
> found...you just need to be proactive and look .
> We traded a mountain bike for for race wheels and put the everyday wheels i=
> n the wheel car, you can find wheels on many of the lists at cheap prices =
> and in the bike stores or borrow from a friend.
> Or walk
> Lisa =
> ----- Original Message -----=
> =20
> From: Edward Kendrick Sr=20
> To: obra@list.obra.org=20
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>
>
> VERY true! Look for an open-admission team or find out the requirements =
> of an invite-only team. If a rider feels like she/he is on an island, a co=
> hesive team will improve their experience.
>
>
> "Meadors, Ivan C" om>> wrote:
> To Michelle (and any others who might benefit from support of a team
> environment);
>
> Are you currently racing with a team?
>
> If not, you might wish to consider joining a team, thus possibly
> creating a more beneficial support system for your racing adventures.
> Having a more dedicated resource to work with (i.e., team members in
> your peer group), would likely help both you (for your personal growth),
> as well as the team, in that racing tactics might possibly be applied
> (or merely through ride-sharing to events and pre-/post-race support).
> And a team-mate might also be more inclined to share the wealth of the
> team by ensuring that wheels could be made available for race support
> from team members who might be more financially established.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of michelle
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:42 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>
> Howdy OBRAland-
> Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression from
> personal expereince:
> I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare wheels
> are clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all
> last season because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy
> or even a free wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the
> spare wheel (and I'm pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You
> might think a little more about supporting women in cycling and donated
> them to their nuetral pit instead of assuming that we've got them and
> were just too lazy to bring them. That's my impression of how a
> supportive comminity would work.
>
> THANKS!
> Michelle Savoie
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ---
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels=20
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel chpage;_ylc=3DX3oDMTFtaTIzNXVjBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk0ODEEcG9zAzIEc2VjA=
> 21haWx0YWdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS0wNw--> to find your fit._________________________=
> ______________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

lisa graham

Maybe it depends on how badly you want to walk back....spare wheels can be found...you just need to be proactive and look .
We traded a mountain bike for for race wheels and put the everyday wheels in the wheel car, you can find wheels on many of the lists at cheap prices and in the bike stores or borrow from a friend.
Or walk
Lisa ----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Kendrick Sr
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support

VERY true! Look for an open-admission team or find out the requirements of an invite-only team. If a rider feels like she/he is on an island, a cohesive team will improve their experience.

"Meadors, Ivan C" > wrote:
To Michelle (and any others who might benefit from support of a team
environment);

Are you currently racing with a team?

If not, you might wish to consider joining a team, thus possibly
creating a more beneficial support system for your racing adventures.
Having a more dedicated resource to work with (i.e., team members in
your peer group), would likely help both you (for your personal growth),
as well as the team, in that racing tactics might possibly be applied
(or merely through ride-sharing to events and pre-/post-race support).
And a team-mate might also be more inclined to share the wealth of the
team by ensuring that wheels could be made available for race support
from team members who might be more financially established.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of michelle
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:42 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support

Howdy OBRAland-
Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression from
personal expereince:
I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare wheels
are clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all
last season because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy
or even a free wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the
spare wheel (and I'm pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You
might think a little more about supporting women in cycling and donated
them to their nuetral pit instead of assuming that we've got them and
were just too lazy to bring them. That's my impression of how a
supportive comminity would work.

THANKS!
Michelle Savoie
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Edward Kendrick Sr

VERY true! Look for an open-admission team or find out the requirements of an invite-only team. If a rider feels like she/he is on an island, a cohesive team will improve their experience.


"Meadors, Ivan C" wrote:
To Michelle (and any others who might benefit from support of a team
environment);

Are you currently racing with a team?

If not, you might wish to consider joining a team, thus possibly
creating a more beneficial support system for your racing adventures.
Having a more dedicated resource to work with (i.e., team members in
your peer group), would likely help both you (for your personal growth),
as well as the team, in that racing tactics might possibly be applied
(or merely through ride-sharing to events and pre-/post-race support).
And a team-mate might also be more inclined to share the wealth of the
team by ensuring that wheels could be made available for race support
from team members who might be more financially established.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of michelle
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:42 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support

Howdy OBRAland-
Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression from
personal expereince:
I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare wheels
are clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all
last season because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy
or even a free wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the
spare wheel (and I'm pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You
might think a little more about supporting women in cycling and donated
them to their nuetral pit instead of assuming that we've got them and
were just too lazy to bring them. That's my impression of how a
supportive comminity would work.

THANKS!
Michelle Savoie
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
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gschreckchat@comcast.net

I agree, but lest the point be lost, this was not about one female rider. I was about entire fields (other than Jan, of course) who neglected to provide wheels. Many of those women have more than one one bike and/or more than one set of wheels. If even one third of the women in those fields provided wheels, there would be sufficient wheels for the cars assume there is not an unusal number of flats. The inability of one rider to bring a wheel is not representative and should not be extrapolated to the entire field and excuse the others. KUDOS TO JAN!

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Meadors, Ivan C"

> To Michelle (and any others who might benefit from support of a team
> environment);
>
> Are you currently racing with a team?
>
> If not, you might wish to consider joining a team, thus possibly
> creating a more beneficial support system for your racing adventures.
> Having a more dedicated resource to work with (i.e., team members in
> your peer group), would likely help both you (for your personal growth),
> as well as the team, in that racing tactics might possibly be applied
> (or merely through ride-sharing to events and pre-/post-race support).
> And a team-mate might also be more inclined to share the wealth of the
> team by ensuring that wheels could be made available for race support
> from team members who might be more financially established.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of michelle
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:42 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>
> Howdy OBRAland-
> Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression from
> personal expereince:
> I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare wheels
> are clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all
> last season because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy
> or even a free wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the
> spare wheel (and I'm pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You
> might think a little more about supporting women in cycling and donated
> them to their nuetral pit instead of assuming that we've got them and
> were just too lazy to bring them. That's my impression of how a
> supportive comminity would work.
>
> THANKS!
> Michelle Savoie
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Quenton Conant

I too believe it would be nice to have a neutral wheel pool, but I think that it would end up being a giant hassle and organizational nightmare. Organizing simple things is hard enough. Who in their RIGHT mind would want to take that on for every race?

Maybe some shops would be willing to donate some cheapies and maintain them.

I'd be more than happy to donate an old wheel or two for that. The only problems would be quality, and accountability. Who is going to guarantee that the neutral wheels are up to snuff, and safe to ride and then be accountable if they aren't? That would make it pretty burdonsome on OBRA. E

ither psycologically or legally I don't know. Who wants to think that maybe it was their donated set of wheels that failed under someone? Keeping track of who got what wheels, and would they always be returned?

Wheels in/Wheels out lets the individual be responsible and accountable only to themselves. It doesn't sound like it's really a gender issue, but just bad luck that noone brought wheels. The issue that Michelle brings up sounds like she's saying that support should be targeted towards a certain income bracket, or social-economic status.

Wouldn't that be better? Making racing more accessible to those who have the desire but not the means, regardless of sex or gender. The race fee's are cheap enough! it's the equipment that kills...

carbonfiber vs steel doesn't seem applicable in the cat 3-4-5 group it's more about the engine and the strategy anyways at this level. But by finding ways to provide safe reliable equipment to people who couldn't otherwise afford it would not only improve their quality of life but provide diversity and more competition; hence, making races even more fun and challenging!

Joe Cipale

Oh what the Hades...

I have an older Iso-Matrix 32 hole wheel. Will accept 8/9/10 speed. I
used it for years as my winter/rain wheel. I now have more wheels than I know what to do with. This wheel will likely need some bearing work as it has over 20K miles, but it is still solid with no splits/cracks/pull-throughs. First Cat 4/5 rider gets it.

(Yes, I am restricting this to Cat 4/5 becuase... well I remeber what it iwas like as a cat 4/5 and running with only one wheel.)

Joe Cipale

Eric Kytola wrote:

> I have an old rim.....mavic 700c....you can have it.
>
> Eric (in Eugene)
> 541-554-3125
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of michelle
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:42 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support
>
> Howdy OBRAland-
> Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression from
> personal expereince:
> I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare wheels
> are clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all
> last season because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy
> or even a free wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the
> spare wheel (and I'm pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You
> might think a little more about supporting women in cycling and donated
> them to their nuetral pit instead of assuming that we've got them and
> were just too lazy to bring them. That's my impression of how a
> supportive comminity would work.
>
> THANKS!
> Michelle Savoie
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Meadors, Ivan C

To Michelle (and any others who might benefit from support of a team
environment);

Are you currently racing with a team?

If not, you might wish to consider joining a team, thus possibly
creating a more beneficial support system for your racing adventures.
Having a more dedicated resource to work with (i.e., team members in
your peer group), would likely help both you (for your personal growth),
as well as the team, in that racing tactics might possibly be applied
(or merely through ride-sharing to events and pre-/post-race support).
And a team-mate might also be more inclined to share the wealth of the
team by ensuring that wheels could be made available for race support
from team members who might be more financially established.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of michelle
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:42 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support

Howdy OBRAland-
Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression from
personal expereince:
I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare wheels
are clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all
last season because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy
or even a free wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the
spare wheel (and I'm pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You
might think a little more about supporting women in cycling and donated
them to their nuetral pit instead of assuming that we've got them and
were just too lazy to bring them. That's my impression of how a
supportive comminity would work.

THANKS!
Michelle Savoie
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Eric Kytola

I have an old rim.....mavic 700c....you can have it.

Eric (in Eugene)
541-554-3125

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of michelle
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:42 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] wheels and support

Howdy OBRAland-
Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression from
personal expereince:
I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare wheels
are clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all
last season because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy
or even a free wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the
spare wheel (and I'm pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You
might think a little more about supporting women in cycling and donated
them to their nuetral pit instead of assuming that we've got them and
were just too lazy to bring them. That's my impression of how a
supportive comminity would work.

THANKS!
Michelle Savoie
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

gschreckchat@comcast.net

Why are we supposed to supply wheels to support your races? I use my spare wheels for the support in my races. Even if you do not have wheels, I am sure that the other women in your race do. If there is a women's field, the women should support it.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: michelle

> Howdy OBRAland-
> Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression from personal
> expereince:
> I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare wheels are
> clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all last season
> because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy or even a free
> wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the spare wheel (and I'm
> pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You might think a little more about
> supporting women in cycling and donated them to their nuetral pit instead of
> assuming that we've got them and were just too lazy to bring them. That's my
> impression of how a supportive comminity would work.
>
> THANKS!
> Michelle Savoie
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

michelle

Howdy OBRAland-
Just finished reading the wheel debacle. Here is my impression from personal expereince:
I can barely afford to own a bike much less pay for races...spare wheels are clearly out of the question. In fact I rode a dented rear wheel all last season because I couldn't replace it. I'm not looking for sympathy or even a free wheel hand-out. But for those of you who DO have the spare wheel (and I'm pretty sure all of those who chastized do), You might think a little more about supporting women in cycling and donated them to their nuetral pit instead of assuming that we've got them and were just too lazy to bring them. That's my impression of how a supportive comminity would work.

THANKS!
Michelle Savoie