Long, Steve

Just because a couple of cat 3's don't want to race cat 3 master's
doesn't mean the rest of us don't.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Harry Phinney
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 6:10 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

OK, since the cat 3 Master(s) don't want to ride Masters, let the 3s
ride the P/1/2 race, and open the KVRR Masters races to cat 1 & 2
Masters.

Harry Phinney

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of J.Michael Manning
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:10 PM
To: Evan Plews; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

I have to agree with Evan. I decided against upgrading years ago. I
raced as a 3 for two years before turning 30 and racing Masters under
the USCF guidelines. After 20+ years racing in the Masters, I dare to
say that even though I still crash occasionally, my bike handling skills
are on a par with any Cat 1 or 2. I do not care to race with the 3's
because virtually every crash I have had is due to some overly
aggressive Cat 3. Always racing with the Masters can be boring since you
are always racing the same guys and the strategy and outcome are so
predictable. Having the opportunity to compete with the "elite" young
riders of Oregon satisfies my competitive urges and ego in a way that
PIR just doesn't seem to do. I am sure I am not alone in my need to find
new sensations.
Mike Manning

________________________________

> From: plewse@hotmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:10:31 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Not always the case... I have been a 3 since the beginning of time
(well
> almost) because of limited committment to road cycling. The only
reason I
> race anything on the road is for training. I never show up to a RR or
TT or
> stage race fresh and ready to race. It is virtually impossible to ever

> upgrade yet I get no end of harrassment for "staying in the 3s".
>
> I would love to race 1-2-3 races. More/better racing, less stupid
> negativity, less sagging, less crashing. But isn't that just like
being
> upgraded anyway???
>
> Alas, I will be racing the Sea Otter... again.
>
> EP
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:14:36 -0000
>
> I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points and
> upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills unrivaled
> in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The course is
> longer and you may or may not have a team to race with. If you're
going
> to move up, use the 3s to gain your points and then take the plunge.
> You can always downgrade after a year of trying it in the 1/2s if you
> cannot earn any points.
>
> And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the hotshot
3s
> to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count on it. We all
> know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-getters" try
their
> hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.
>
> I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3 and
3/4
> field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who could have
> easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win their first
race
> of the season.
>
> Something about leading a horse to water or something...
>
> My two cents,
>
> Fish
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On
> Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
>
> This is a good question for everyone.
>
> There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it
> starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a
> separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.
>
> Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means
that
> we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.
>
> Candi Murray wrote:
>
> It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the
> upgrade
> criteria.
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
> To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Folks:
> As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race
> with them?
> For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race
> were 1/2/3?
> There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted
> to ride with
>
> the big boys would have that option.
> The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about
> this.
>
> -sal
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for
> as low as
> $771/month*
>
>
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&se
> arch
> =mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick
> in no
> time
> with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

________________________________

Take a break and play crossword puzzles - FREE! Play Now!

gschreckchat@comcast.net

This is an old tune Harry, but I never get tired of hearing it. Which you were there.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Harry Phinney"

OK, since the cat 3 Master(s) don?t want to ride Masters, let the 3s ride the P/1/2 race, and open the KVRR Masters races to cat 1 & 2 Masters.

Harry Phinney

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of J.Michael Manning
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:10 PM
To: Evan Plews; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

I have to agree with Evan. I decided against upgrading years ago. I raced as a 3 for two years before turning 30 and racing Masters under the USCF guidelines. After 20+ years racing in the Masters, I dare to say that even though I still crash occasionally, my bike handling skills are on a par with any Cat 1 or 2. I do not care to race with the 3's because virtually every crash I have had is due to some overly aggressive Cat 3. Always racing with the Masters can be boring since you are always racing the same guys and the strategy and outcome are so predictable. Having the opportunity to compete with the "elite" young riders of Oregon satisfies my competitive urges and ego in a way that PIR just doesn't seem to do. I am sure I am not alone in my need to find new sensations.
Mike Manning

> From: plewse@hotmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:10:31 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Not always the case... I have been a 3 since the beginning of time (well
> almost) because of limited committment to road cycling. The only reason I
> race anything on the road is for training. I never show up to a RR or TT or
> stage race fresh and ready to race. It is virtually impossible to ever
> upgrade yet I get no end of harrassment for "staying in the 3s".
>
> I would love to race 1-2-3 races. More/better racing, less stupid
> negativity, less sagging, less crashing. But isn't that just like being
> upgraded anyway???
>
> Alas, I will be racing the Sea Otter... again.
>
> EP
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:14:36 -0000
>
> I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points and
> upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills unrivaled
> in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The course is
> longer and you may or may not have a team to race with. If you're going
> to move up, use the 3s to gain your points and then take the plunge.
> You can always downgrade after a year of trying it in the 1/2s if you
> cannot earn any points.
>
> And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the hotshot 3s
> to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count on it. We all
> know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-getters" try their
> hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.
>
> I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3 and 3/4
> field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who could have
> easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win their first race
> of the season.
>
> Something about leading a horse to water or something...
>
> My two cents,
>
> Fish
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
>
> This is a good question for everyone.
>
> There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it
> starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a
> separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.
>
> Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means that
> we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.
>
> Candi Murray wrote:
>
> It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the
> upgrade
> criteria.
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
> To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Folks:
> As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race
> with them?
> For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race
> were 1/2/3?
> There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted
> to ride with
>
> the big boys would have that option.
> The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about
> this.
>
> -sal
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for
> as low as
> $771/month*
>
> https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&se
> arch
> =mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick
> in no
> time
> with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Take a break and play crossword puzzles - FREE! Play Now!

Dan H

Delete now if you tire of my "back ion the day" anecdotes but...
When I was a cat 3 (and there only 4 categories) (and rules were looser) I thought a good way to get better faster would be to ride with the 1/2s so that when I raced with 3s again it would seem easier. Sort of a self handicap if you will like running with ankle weights. I'm not coach or a physiologist so I don't if that makes sense to anyone else. Anyway, I did that for a couple months and although I usually got "schooled" which was the idea in the first place, I actually finished 4th or 5th in a Sandy River Road Race where I observed future State road champion Ron Wagner break (another) Super Record crank. There was a loud crack and then I passed him pedaling with one foot and a pedal with a crank end on it strapped to his other foot which was hanging to one side but I digress... After racing 2's for a while I wanted some wins to make it official but when I raced 3s again, I was accused of sandbagging even though I was licensed as a 3. I even had to justify racing cat 3 in a live interview with Jeff Roach! Anyway I got the upgrade but the point is... Unless you are ready to make the leap permanent, I suggest you just race your category and train with faster riders.
Was that too long a way around to make my point?

----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Creem
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

As a Cat 3 looking to upgrade, I agree with Candi's comments. 1/2/3 is great for PIR, but that's it. Unless Cat 3's have the ability to get points in a 1/2 race other than by finishing top 7, it doesn't make a lot of sense to offer a combined race and deplete the size and quality of the Cat 3 field. If Cat 3's want harder racing, then race harder.

______________________________________________________________________
Joshua A. Creem

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Candi Murray"
Reply-To: cmurray@obra.org
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:35:18 -0700
It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the upgrade
criteria.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

Folks:
As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race with them?
For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race were 1/2/3?
There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted to ride with

the big boys would have that option.
The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about this.

-sal

_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as
$771/month*
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search
=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117

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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

J.Michael Manning

Do you mean I don't get a chance to take you down next week Harry? Damn...I didn't realize that. That makes things even more boring.MikeFrom: harry-phinney@comcast.netTo: obra@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:10:27 -0700Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

OK, since the cat 3 Master(s) don’t
want to ride Masters, let the 3s ride the P/1/2 race, and open the KVRR Masters
races to cat 1 & 2 Masters.

Harry Phinney

From:
obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of J.Michael Manning
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007
1:10 PM
To: Evan Plews; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs
at KVRR

I have to agree with Evan. I decided against upgrading
years ago. I raced as a 3 for two years before turning 30 and racing Masters
under the USCF guidelines. After 20+ years racing in the Masters, I dare to say
that even though I still crash occasionally, my bike handling skills are on a
par with any Cat 1 or 2. I do not care to race with the 3's because virtually
every crash I have had is due to some overly aggressive Cat 3. Always racing
with the Masters can be boring since you are always racing the same guys and
the strategy and outcome are so predictable. Having the opportunity to compete
with the "elite" young riders of Oregon satisfies my competitive urges and
ego in a way that PIR just doesn't seem to do. I am sure I am not alone in my
need to find new sensations.
Mike Manning

> From: plewse@hotmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:10:31 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Not always the case... I have been a 3 since the beginning of time (well
> almost) because of limited committment to road cycling. The only reason I
> race anything on the road is for training. I never show up to a RR or TT
or
> stage race fresh and ready to race. It is virtually impossible to ever
> upgrade yet I get no end of harrassment for "staying in the 3s".
>
> I would love to race 1-2-3 races. More/better racing, less stupid
> negativity, less sagging, less crashing. But isn't that just like being
> upgraded anyway???
>
> Alas, I will be racing the Sea Otter... again.
>
> EP
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"

> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:14:36 -0000
>
> I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points and
> upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills unrivaled
> in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The course is
> longer and you may or may not have a team to race with. If you're going
> to move up, use the 3s to gain your points and then take the plunge.
> You can always downgrade after a year of trying it in the 1/2s if you
> cannot earn any points.
>
> And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the hotshot 3s
> to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count on it. We all
> know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-getters"
try their
> hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.
>
> I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3 and 3/4
> field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who could have
> easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win their first race
> of the season.
>
> Something about leading a horse to water or something...
>
> My two cents,
>
> Fish
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
>
> This is a good question for everyone.
>
> There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it
> starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a
> separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.
>
> Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means that
> we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.
>
> Candi Murray wrote:
>
> It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the
> upgrade
> criteria.
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
> To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Folks:
> As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race
> with them?
> For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race
> were 1/2/3?
> There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted
> to ride with
>
> the big boys would have that option.
> The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about
> this.
>
> -sal
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for
> as low as
> $771/month*
>
>
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&se
> arch
> =mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick
>
in no
> time
> with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Harry Phinney

OK, since the cat 3 Master(s) don't want to ride Masters, let the 3s ride
the P/1/2 race, and open the KVRR Masters races to cat 1 & 2 Masters.

Harry Phinney

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of J.Michael Manning
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:10 PM
To: Evan Plews; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

I have to agree with Evan. I decided against upgrading years ago. I raced as
a 3 for two years before turning 30 and racing Masters under the USCF
guidelines. After 20+ years racing in the Masters, I dare to say that even
though I still crash occasionally, my bike handling skills are on a par with
any Cat 1 or 2. I do not care to race with the 3's because virtually every
crash I have had is due to some overly aggressive Cat 3. Always racing with
the Masters can be boring since you are always racing the same guys and the
strategy and outcome are so predictable. Having the opportunity to compete
with the "elite" young riders of Oregon satisfies my competitive urges and
ego in a way that PIR just doesn't seem to do. I am sure I am not alone in
my need to find new sensations.
Mike Manning

_____

> From: plewse@hotmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:10:31 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Not always the case... I have been a 3 since the beginning of time (well
> almost) because of limited committment to road cycling. The only reason I
> race anything on the road is for training. I never show up to a RR or TT
or
> stage race fresh and ready to race. It is virtually impossible to ever
> upgrade yet I get no end of harrassment for "staying in the 3s".
>
> I would love to race 1-2-3 races. More/better racing, less stupid
> negativity, less sagging, less crashing. But isn't that just like being
> upgraded anyway???
>
> Alas, I will be racing the Sea Otter... again.
>
> EP
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:14:36 -0000
>
> I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points and
> upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills unrivaled
> in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The course is
> longer and you may or may not have a team to race with. If you're going
> to move up, use the 3s to gain your points and then take the plunge.
> You can always downgrade after a year of trying it in the 1/2s if you
> cannot earn any points.
>
> And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the hotshot 3s
> to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count on it. We all
> know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-getters" try their
> hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.
>
> I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3 and 3/4
> field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who could have
> easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win their first race
> of the season.
>
> Something about leading a horse to water or something...
>
> My two cents,
>
> Fish
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
>
> This is a good question for everyone.
>
> There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it
> starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a
> separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.
>
> Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means that
> we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.
>
> Candi Murray wrote:
>
> It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the
> upgrade
> criteria.
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
> To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Folks:
> As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race
> with them?
> For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race
> were 1/2/3?
> There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted
> to ride with
>
> the big boys would have that option.
> The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about
> this.
>
> -sal
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for
> as low as
> $771/month*
>
> https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&se
> arch
> =mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick
> in no
> time
> with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

Take a break and play crossword puzzles - FREE! Play Now!

J.Michael Manning

I have to agree with Evan. I decided against upgrading years ago. I raced as a 3 for two years before turning 30 and racing Masters under the USCF guidelines. After 20+ years racing in the Masters, I dare to say that even though I still crash occasionally, my bike handling skills are on a par with any Cat 1 or 2. I do not care to race with the 3's because virtually every crash I have had is due to some overly aggressive Cat 3. Always racing with the Masters can be boring since you are always racing the same guys and the strategy and outcome are so predictable. Having the opportunity to compete with the "elite" young riders of Oregon satisfies my competitive urges and ego in a way that PIR just doesn't seem to do. I am sure I am not alone in my need to find new sensations.Mike Manning> From: plewse@hotmail.com> To: obra@list.obra.org> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:10:31 +0000> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR> > Not always the case... I have been a 3 since the beginning of time (well > almost) because of limited committment to road cycling. The only reason I > race anything on the road is for training. I never show up to a RR or TT or > stage race fresh and ready to race. It is virtually impossible to ever > upgrade yet I get no end of harrassment for "staying in the 3s".> > I would love to race 1-2-3 races. More/better racing, less stupid > negativity, less sagging, less crashing. But isn't that just like being > upgraded anyway???> > Alas, I will be racing the Sea Otter... again.> > EP> > > > ----Original Message Follows----> From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)" > To: > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:14:36 -0000> > I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points and> upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills unrivaled> in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The course is> longer and you may or may not have a team to race with. If you're going> to move up, use the 3s to gain your points and then take the plunge.> You can always downgrade after a year of trying it in the 1/2s if you> cannot earn any points.> > And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the hotshot 3s> to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count on it. We all> know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-getters" try their> hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.> > I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3 and 3/4> field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who could have> easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win their first race> of the season.> > Something about leading a horse to water or something...> > My two cents,> > Fish> > ________________________________> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On> Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM> To: obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR> > > This is a good question for everyone.> > There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it> starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a> separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.> > Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means that> we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.> > Candi Murray wrote:> > It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the> upgrade> criteria.> Candi> > -----Original Message-----> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On> Behalf Of Salvatore Collura> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM> To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR> > Folks:> As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race> with them?> For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race> were 1/2/3?> There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted> to ride with> > the big boys would have that option.> The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about> this.> > -sal> > > _________________________________________________________________> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for> as low as> $771/month*> > https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&se> arch> =mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > > > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > > > ________________________________> > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick> in no> time> with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.> > > > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _________________________________________________________________> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. > http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_________________________________________________________________
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Cheryl Willson

Sure, on average, but you only need to watch one race to know that
riding in any particular field does not mean you can ride safely.

Anyway, that wasn't my point. My point was that some people like to
race with their friends and that friends aren't restricted by category.

The general tone of the discussion had implied that there was no
reason to even consider the option...I was just throwing it out there
that there was at least one reason.

On Apr 4, 2007, at 11:53 AM, Freyensee, James P wrote:

> Actually, one reason why people want to upgrade to a 2 is to NOT
> race with 3’s anymore. The average bike handling and pack riding
> skills of a racer in a 1/2 race is better than a 3 race.
>
>
>
> J
>
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Cheryl Willson
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:35 AM
> To: obra
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
>
>
> I don't race my bike (well, close enough) and I don't care what
> categories are offered at KVRR but.....
>
>
>
> I just thought I'd throw it out there that there are teams with 3s
> and 2s that might enjoy racing together.
>
>
>
> I realize there are many other pros and cons but certainly, for
> some, this might be the point. (And, yes, this may be a reason to
> be against it if you wouldn't benefit from those teams having a
> bigger 1/2/3 squad)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
>
>
> From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"
>
> Date: April 4, 2007 9:14:36 AM PDT
>
> To:
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
>
>
> I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points
> and upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills
> unrivaled in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The
> course is longer and you may or may not have a team to race with.
> If you're going to move up, use the 3s to gain your points and then
> take the plunge. You can always downgrade after a year of trying
> it in the 1/2s if you cannot earn any points.
>
>
>
> And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the
> hotshot 3s to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count
> on it. We all know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-
> getters" try their hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.
>
>
>
> I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3
> and 3/4 field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who
> could have easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win
> their first race of the season.
>
>
>
> Something about leading a horse to water or something...
>
>
>
> My two cents,
>
>
>
> Fish
>
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> This is a good question for everyone.
>
>
>
> There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it
> starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a
> separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.
>
>
>
> Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means
> that we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.
>
> Candi Murray wrote:
>
> It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the upgrade
> criteria.
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
> To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Folks:
> As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race
> with them?
> For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race were
> 1/2/3?
> There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted to
> ride with
>
> the big boys would have that option.
> The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about this.
>
> -sal
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as
> low as
> $771/month*
> https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%
> 2fst.jsp&tm=y&search
> =mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
> with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> OBRA mailing list
>
> obra@list.obra.org
>
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Freyensee, James P

Actually, one reason why people want to upgrade to a 2 is to NOT race
with 3's anymore. The average bike handling and pack riding skills of a
racer in a 1/2 race is better than a 3 race.

J

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Cheryl Willson
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:35 AM
To: obra
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Cat IIIs at KVRR

I don't race my bike (well, close enough) and I don't care what
categories are offered at KVRR but.....

I just thought I'd throw it out there that there are teams with 3s and
2s that might enjoy racing together.

I realize there are many other pros and cons but certainly, for some,
this might be the point. (And, yes, this may be a reason to be against
it if you wouldn't benefit from those teams having a bigger 1/2/3 squad)

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"

Date: April 4, 2007 9:14:36 AM PDT

To:

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points and
upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills unrivaled
in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The course is
longer and you may or may not have a team to race with. If you're going
to move up, use the 3s to gain your points and then take the plunge.
You can always downgrade after a year of trying it in the 1/2s if you
cannot earn any points.

And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the hotshot 3s
to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count on it. We all
know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-getters" try their
hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.

I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3 and 3/4
field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who could have
easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win their first race
of the season.

Something about leading a horse to water or something...

My two cents,

Fish

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

This is a good question for everyone.

There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it
starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a
separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.

Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means that
we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.

Candi Murray wrote:

It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the
upgrade
criteria.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

Folks:
As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race
with them?
For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race
were 1/2/3?
There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted
to ride with

the big boys would have that option.
The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about
this.

-sal


_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for
as low as
$771/month*

https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&se
arch
=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org



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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

________________________________

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick
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time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

_______________________________________________

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Candi Murray

I think that all that needs to happen is for race organizers to call the 1/2
field Senior Men. That way the choice is always there.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Cheryl Willson
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:35 AM
To: obra
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Cat IIIs at KVRR

I don't race my bike (well, close enough) and I don't care what categories
are offered at KVRR but.....

I just thought I'd throw it out there that there are teams with 3s and 2s
that might enjoy racing together.

I realize there are many other pros and cons but certainly, for some, this
might be the point. (And, yes, this may be a reason to be against it if you
wouldn't benefit from those teams having a bigger 1/2/3 squad)

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"
Date: April 4, 2007 9:14:36 AM PDT
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points
and upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills unrivaled
in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The course is longer
and you may or may not have a team to race with. If you're going to move
up, use the 3s to gain your points and then take the plunge. You can always
downgrade after a year of trying it in the 1/2s if you cannot earn any
points.

And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the
hotshot 3s to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count on it.
We all know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-getters" try
their hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.

I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3 and
3/4 field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who could have
easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win their first race of
the season.

Something about leading a horse to water or something...

My two cents,

Fish

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR


This is a good question for everyone.

There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it
starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a separate
3's race, this would be VERY bad.

Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means
that we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.

Candi Murray wrote:

It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make
the upgrade
criteria.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

Folks:
As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s
race with them?
For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road
Race were 1/2/3?
There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who
wanted to ride with

the big boys would have that option.
The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about
this.

-sal


_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan
for as low as
$771/month*

https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search
=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117

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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org



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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

________________________________

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick
in no time
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Evan Plews

Not always the case... I have been a 3 since the beginning of time (well
almost) because of limited committment to road cycling. The only reason I
race anything on the road is for training. I never show up to a RR or TT or
stage race fresh and ready to race. It is virtually impossible to ever
upgrade yet I get no end of harrassment for "staying in the 3s".

I would love to race 1-2-3 races. More/better racing, less stupid
negativity, less sagging, less crashing. But isn't that just like being
upgraded anyway???

Alas, I will be racing the Sea Otter... again.

EP

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:14:36 -0000

I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points and
upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills unrivaled
in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The course is
longer and you may or may not have a team to race with. If you're going
to move up, use the 3s to gain your points and then take the plunge.
You can always downgrade after a year of trying it in the 1/2s if you
cannot earn any points.

And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the hotshot 3s
to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count on it. We all
know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-getters" try their
hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.

I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3 and 3/4
field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who could have
easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win their first race
of the season.

Something about leading a horse to water or something...

My two cents,

Fish

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

This is a good question for everyone.

There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it
starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a
separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.

Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means that
we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.

Candi Murray wrote:

It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the
upgrade
criteria.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

Folks:
As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race
with them?
For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race
were 1/2/3?
There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted
to ride with

the big boys would have that option.
The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about
this.

-sal

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T. Kenji Sugahara

I agree with Fish's and Josh's sentiments.

For large races like KVRR I'd prefer a standalone 3's race. If the
fields are small, then I wouldn't mind a combined 1/2/3 race sort of
like they did with the Co-Motion crit last year.

Oh... by the way... there's a new poll up at obra3.blogspot.com

On Apr 4, 2007, at 7:38 AM, Joshua Creem wrote:

> As a Cat 3 looking to upgrade, I agree with Candi's comments. 1/2/3
> is great for PIR, but that's it. Unless Cat 3's have the ability
> to get points in a 1/2 race other than by finishing top 7, it
> doesn't make a lot of sense to offer a combined race and deplete
> the size and quality of the Cat 3 field. If Cat 3's want harder
> racing, then race harder.
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Joshua A. Creem
>
>
> From: "Candi Murray"
> Reply-To: cmurray@obra.org
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:35:18 -0700
> It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the upgrade
> criteria.
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
> To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Folks:
> As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race
> with them?
> For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race were
> 1/2/3?
> There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted to
> ride with
>
> the big boys would have that option.
> The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about this.
>
> -sal
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as
> low as
> $771/month*
> https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%
> 2fst.jsp&tm=y&search
> =mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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>
>
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Cheryl Willson

I don't race my bike (well, close enough) and I don't care what
categories are offered at KVRR but.....

I just thought I'd throw it out there that there are teams with 3s
and 2s that might enjoy racing together.

I realize there are many other pros and cons but certainly, for some,
this might be the point. (And, yes, this may be a reason to be
against it if you wouldn't benefit from those teams having a bigger
1/2/3 squad)

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"
> Date: April 4, 2007 9:14:36 AM PDT
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points
> and upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills
> unrivaled in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The
> course is longer and you may or may not have a team to race with.
> If you're going to move up, use the 3s to gain your points and then
> take the plunge. You can always downgrade after a year of trying
> it in the 1/2s if you cannot earn any points.
>
> And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the
> hotshot 3s to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count
> on it. We all know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-
> getters" try their hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.
>
> I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3
> and 3/4 field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who
> could have easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win
> their first race of the season.
>
> Something about leading a horse to water or something...
>
> My two cents,
>
> Fish
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> This is a good question for everyone.
>
> There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it
> starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a
> separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.
>
> Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means
> that we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.
>
> Candi Murray wrote:
> It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the upgrade
> criteria.
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
> To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Folks:
> As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race
> with them?
> For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race were
> 1/2/3?
> There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted to
> ride with
>
> the big boys would have that option.
> The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about this.
>
> -sal
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as
> low as
> $771/month*
> https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%
> 2fst.jsp&tm=y&search
> =mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
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>
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Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)

I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points and
upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills unrivaled
in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The course is
longer and you may or may not have a team to race with. If you're going
to move up, use the 3s to gain your points and then take the plunge.
You can always downgrade after a year of trying it in the 1/2s if you
cannot earn any points.

And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the hotshot 3s
to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count on it. We all
know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-getters" try their
hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.

I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3 and 3/4
field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who could have
easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win their first race
of the season.

Something about leading a horse to water or something...

My two cents,

Fish

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

This is a good question for everyone.

There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it
starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a
separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.

Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means that
we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.

Candi Murray wrote:

It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the
upgrade
criteria.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

Folks:
As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race
with them?
For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race
were 1/2/3?
There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted
to ride with

the big boys would have that option.
The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about
this.

-sal


_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for
as low as
$771/month*

https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&se
arch
=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117

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Joshua Creem

Edward Kendrick Sr

This is a good question for everyone.

There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.

Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means that we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.

Candi Murray wrote:
It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the upgrade
criteria.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

Folks:
As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race with them?
For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race were 1/2/3?
There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted to ride with

the big boys would have that option.
The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about this.

-sal

_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as
$771/month*
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search
=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117

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Candi Murray

It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the upgrade
criteria.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

Folks:
As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race with them?
For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race were 1/2/3?
There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted to ride with

the big boys would have that option.
The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about this.

-sal

_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as
$771/month*
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search
=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117

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Salvatore Collura

Folks:
As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race with them?
For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race were 1/2/3?
There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted to ride with
the big boys would have that option.
The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about this.

-sal

_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as
$771/month*
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117