OBRA: OBRA Chat: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Cat IIIs at...

Jerald M Powell

2007-04-04

Eric... Got to do something about your hazard perception
problem... ;-)

Jerry

Jerald M Powell, AICP
Community Planning
1926 SW Madison St
Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173
503 799 7823 (cellular)

jpowell@spiritone.com

On Apr 4, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Eric Kytola wrote:

> i have actually been wiped out 2 times in the last 3 cat 3 races.
> still low by your analysis (2/3 vs. 1/3), but still painful as well.
>
> let's change them all to TT races...
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David Diviney
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:09 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Cat IIIs at KVRR
>
> Hey Jay-
>
> When I was riding in the Tour de France last year, there were 6
> crashes in the first stage. Can you imagine that??!! These guys
> are supposed to be pro bike racers and stage 1 is always a flat,
> wide open, easy stage and there were still crashes all over the
> place. After that, I decided to return to Oregon and race Cat 3
> where there is maybe 1 crash/3 races. Much safer than riding the
> pro race. Cat 1/2 skills my ass.
>
> Thanks for you insightful, invaluable, incorrect input.
>
> David
>
>>
>> Cheryl Willson wrote:
>> Sure, on average, but you only need to watch one race to know that
>> riding in any particular field does not mean you can ride safely.
>>
>> Anyway, that wasn't my point. My point was that some people like
>> to race with their friends and that friends aren't restricted by
>> category.
>>
>> The general tone of the discussion had implied that there was no
>> reason to even consider the option...I was just throwing it out
>> there that there was at least one reason.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 4, 2007, at 11:53 AM, Freyensee, James P wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, one reason why people want to upgrade to a 2 is to NOT
>>> race with 3s anymore. The average bike handling and pack riding
>>> skills of a racer in a 1/2 race is better than a 3 race.
>>>
>>> J
>>>
>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
>>> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Cheryl Willson
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:35 AM
>>> To: obra
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Cat IIIs at KVRR
>>>
>>> I don't race my bike (well, close enough) and I don't care what
>>> categories are offered at KVRR but.....
>>>
>>> I just thought I'd throw it out there that there are teams with
>>> 3s and 2s that might enjoy racing together.
>>>
>>> I realize there are many other pros and cons but certainly, for
>>> some, this might be the point. (And, yes, this may be a reason to
>>> be against it if you wouldn't benefit from those teams having a
>>> bigger 1/2/3 squad)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"
>>> Date: April 4, 2007 9:14:36 AM PDT
>>> To:
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>>>
>>> I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your
>>> points and upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of
>>> skills unrivaled in the 3s and they will ride very tactically
>>> smart. The course is longer and you may or may not have a team
>>> to race with. If you're going to move up, use the 3s to gain
>>> your points and then take the plunge. You can always downgrade
>>> after a year of trying it in the 1/2s if you cannot earn any points.
>>>
>>> And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the
>>> hotshot 3s to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't
>>> count on it. We all know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while
>>> the "go-getters" try their hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how
>>> fast they are.
>>>
>>> I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3
>>> and 3/4 field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who
>>> could have easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win
>>> their first race of the season.
>>>
>>> Something about leading a horse to water or something...
>>>
>>> My two cents,
>>>
>>> Fish
>>>
>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
>>> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>>> This is a good question for everyone.
>>>
>>> There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if
>>> it starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not
>>> offering a separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.
>>>
>>> Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it
>>> means that we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.
>>>
>>> Candi Murray wrote:
>>> It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the
>>> upgrade
>>> criteria.
>>> Candi
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
>>> bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
>>> To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
>>>
>>> Folks:
>>> As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race
>>> with them?
>>> For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race
>>> were 1/2/3?
>>> There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted
>>> to ride with
>>>
>>> the big boys would have that option.
>>> The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about this.
>>>
>>> -sal
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as
>>> low as
>>> $771/month*
>>> https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%
>>> 2fst.jsp&tm=y&search
>>> =mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
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>>
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>>
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>> See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>>
>>
>> Don't pick lemons.
>> See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>
>
>
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Eric Kytola

2007-04-04

i have actually been wiped out 2 times in the last 3 cat 3 races. still
low by your analysis (2/3 vs. 1/3), but still painful as well.

let's change them all to TT races...

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of David Diviney
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:09 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Cat IIIs at KVRR

Hey Jay-

When I was riding in the Tour de France last year, there were 6
crashes in the first stage. Can you imagine that??!! These guys are
supposed to be pro bike racers and stage 1 is always a flat, wide open,
easy stage and there were still crashes all over the place. After that,
I decided to return to Oregon and race Cat 3 where there is maybe 1
crash/3 races. Much safer than riding the pro race. Cat 1/2 skills my
ass.

Thanks for you insightful, invaluable, incorrect input.

David

Cheryl Willson wrote:

Sure, on average, but you only need to
watch one race to know that riding in any particular field does not mean
you can ride safely.

Anyway, that wasn't my point. My point
was that some people like to race with their friends and that friends
aren't restricted by category.

The general tone of the discussion had
implied that there was no reason to even consider the option...I was
just throwing it out there that there was at least one reason.

On Apr 4, 2007, at 11:53 AM, Freyensee,
James P wrote:

Actually, one reason why people want to
upgrade to a 2 is to NOT race with 3's anymore. The average bike
handling and pack riding skills of a racer in a 1/2 race is better than
a 3 race.

J

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Cheryl Willson
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:35 AM
To: obra
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Cat IIIs at
KVRR

I don't race my bike (well, close
enough) and I don't care what categories are offered at KVRR but.....

I just thought I'd throw it out there
that there are teams with 3s and 2s that might enjoy racing together.

I realize there are many other pros and
cons but certainly, for some, this might be the point. (And, yes, this
may be a reason to be against it if you wouldn't benefit from those
teams having a bigger 1/2/3 squad)

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"

Date: April 4, 2007 9:14:36 AM PDT
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at
KVRR

I don't see the point. If you're a
hotshot Cat 3, earn your points and upgrade. You know the 1/2s will
possess the depth of skills unrivaled in the 3s and they will ride very
tactically smart. The course is longer and you may or may not have a
team to race with. If you're going to move up, use the 3s to gain your
points and then take the plunge. You can always downgrade after a year
of trying it in the 1/2s if you cannot earn any points.

And for the mediocre 3s who think this
will encourage all the hotshot 3s to race in the 1/2s so you can gain
points, don't count on it. We all know strong 3s who will stay in the
3s while the "go-getters" try their hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how
fast they are.

I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago
where Norm offered a 1/2/3 and 3/4 field. The guys who dominated our
3/4 field were 3s who could have easily done well in the 1/2/3 group,
but wanted to win their first race of the season.

Something about leading a horse to water
or something...

My two cents,

Fish

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at
KVRR
This is a good question for everyone.

There may be some ambitious 3's, who
would like it. However, if it starts a trend toward consistently
joining them and not offering a separate 3's race, this would be VERY
bad.

Generally, 4's would like to work up to
Cat. 3, but not if it means that we will have to compete with Pro's &
Olympic athletes.

Candi Murray wrote:

It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that
it might not make the upgrade
criteria.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
To:
scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at
KVRR

Folks:
As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel
about having Cat 3s race with them?
For example, would anyone mind if the
King's Valley Road Race were 1/2/3?
There would still be a separate 3 race,
but the guys who wanted to ride with

the big boys would have that option.
The promoter wants to get a sense for
how riders feel about this.

-sal

_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates near historic lows.
Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as
$771/month*

https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&se
arch

=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117

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Unsubscribe:
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Unsubscribe:
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time
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shortcut.

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Unsubscribe:
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________________________________

Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars
at Yahoo! Autos.

________________________________

Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars
at Yahoo! Autos.

________________________________

Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating"
at Yahoo! Autos' Green
Center.

David Diviney

2007-04-04

Hey Jay-

When I was riding in the Tour de France last year, there were 6 crashes in the first stage. Can you imagine that??!! These guys are supposed to be pro bike racers and stage 1 is always a flat, wide open, easy stage and there were still crashes all over the place. After that, I decided to return to Oregon and race Cat 3 where there is maybe 1 crash/3 races. Much safer than riding the pro race. Cat 1/2 skills my ass.

Thanks for you insightful, invaluable, incorrect input.

David

Cheryl Willson wrote:
Sure, on average, but you only need to watch one race to know that riding in any particular field does not mean you can ride safely.

Anyway, that wasn't my point. My point was that some people like to race with their friends and that friends aren't restricted by category.

The general tone of the discussion had implied that there was no reason to even consider the option...I was just throwing it out there that there was at least one reason.

On Apr 4, 2007, at 11:53 AM, Freyensee, James P wrote:

Actually, one reason why people want to upgrade to a 2 is to NOT race with 3?s anymore. The average bike handling and pack riding skills of a racer in a 1/2 race is better than a 3 race.

J

---------------------------------

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Cheryl Willson
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:35 AM
To: obra
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Cat IIIs at KVRR

I don't race my bike (well, close enough) and I don't care what categories are offered at KVRR but.....

I just thought I'd throw it out there that there are teams with 3s and 2s that might enjoy racing together.

I realize there are many other pros and cons but certainly, for some, this might be the point. (And, yes, this may be a reason to be against it if you wouldn't benefit from those teams having a bigger 1/2/3 squad)

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)"

Date: April 4, 2007 9:14:36 AM PDT

To:

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

I don't see the point. If you're a hotshot Cat 3, earn your points and upgrade. You know the 1/2s will possess the depth of skills unrivaled in the 3s and they will ride very tactically smart. The course is longer and you may or may not have a team to race with. If you're going to move up, use the 3s to gain your points and then take the plunge. You can always downgrade after a year of trying it in the 1/2s if you cannot earn any points.

And for the mediocre 3s who think this will encourage all the hotshot 3s to race in the 1/2s so you can gain points, don't count on it. We all know strong 3s who will stay in the 3s while the "go-getters" try their hand in the 1/2s, regardless of how fast they are.

I recall a Cherry Pie a few years ago where Norm offered a 1/2/3 and 3/4 field. The guys who dominated our 3/4 field were 3s who could have easily done well in the 1/2/3 group, but wanted to win their first race of the season.

Something about leading a horse to water or something...

My two cents,

Fish

---------------------------------

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Edward Kendrick Sr
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:16 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR
This is a good question for everyone.

There may be some ambitious 3's, who would like it. However, if it starts a trend toward consistently joining them and not offering a separate 3's race, this would be VERY bad.

Generally, 4's would like to work up to Cat. 3, but not if it means that we will have to compete with Pro's & Olympic athletes.

Candi Murray wrote:

It could deplete the # of cat 3s so that it might not make the upgrade
criteria.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Salvatore Collura
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:42 PM
To: scott.goldstein@summitbankonline.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cat IIIs at KVRR

Folks:
As a general rule, how do Cat 1/2s feel about having Cat 3s race with them?
For example, would anyone mind if the King's Valley Road Race were 1/2/3?
There would still be a separate 3 race, but the guys who wanted to ride with

the big boys would have that option.
The promoter wants to get a sense for how riders feel about this.

-sal

_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as
$771/month*
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search
=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------

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with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

---------------------------------
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.