Tim Schauer

Hey, I have an idea!!!

How about if OBRA offered a "OBRA Oregon State Championship" AND they could also offer a "OBRA Washington State Championship" for Washington residents who belong to OBRA? Then Trevor and I could race against Chris and Austin Alling, Steve Holland and David Root, Steve Long, David Hart, David Zimbelman, and the other 200 some Washington based OBRA members!!! The fields would be smaller and I might have a better shot at a championship!!!! Please recognize the humor and sarcasm intended in this posted suggestion.

I really don't care if there was an Oregon state championship race with only Oregon racers eligible for medals. Although, if one of us Washington based OBRA-ites wins the race it may just highlight that and Oregon rider didn't win the race rather than celebrate that OBRA has great racers within its membership, regardless of where they reside full time. I guess you could always just designate the state champion as the top Oregon rider in any OBRA championship race, and the winner be the OBRA champion???

-Tim Schauer
Vancouver, WA

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Luciano bailey
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:37 PM
To: elongride@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???

Maybe you are unclear but you race against riders from other states or Washington as the case may be all season long. Many of whom have been OBRA members for years, Obra members being the key what would it be like to not see faces like Chris and Austin Alling , Tim and Trevor Schauer and many others at these championships. My advice bring your A game race hard without worrying about weither the guy next to you came down I_5 twenty minutes from washington. This is what makes OBRA the great program it is we are a welcoming orginization that thrives on great competiton even if it comes from New Zealand or somewhere else.

>From: "Erik Long"
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
>Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:48:15 -0700
>
>
>
>The idea behind a State Championship, Brian, is to get as many of a
>given state's riders (regardless of city residence and hair color) 
>gathered on the same course, on the same day, for the same race.  You
>want to win that race because of the recognition that comes with
>beating the rest of the riders in your state, in your category in the
>most fiercely contested one-day race held within your state.
>
>This is why it doesn't make sense to have out-of-state riders competing
>in such an event.  The Idea behind such a race is to determine who can
>win amongst Oregon's racers.  If Oregon's ridrers are competing against
>(or being helped by) Washington and California riders, it ceases to be
>an Oregon Championship and becomes just another road race, with a
>different medal.
>
>-Erik
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>From:  Brian Mack
>To:  obra@list.obra.org
>Subject:  [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
>Date:  Tue, 08 May 2007 13:29:25 -0700
>
>
>
>I'm a little confused -  What makes one race on the calendar special
>enough to be called a championship race?  Why should I care more about
>winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
>anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
>other?
>
>Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
>have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
>this state?  Why would anyone care who that was?  How about a blonde
>hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
>an SUV?
>
>Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
>show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best
>rider is out of everybody.  The winner on that particular day, in the
>weather that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who
>didn't crash or have flats, whose tactics happened to work...  who cares?
>
>Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
>restricted.  For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
>win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
>back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
>Washington, or if he has three legs or  drives a Buick or has four
>testicles.
>
>Brian
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing
>list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> PC Magazine's 2007 editors' choice for best Web mail-award-winning
>Windows Live Hotmail.
>

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Luciano bailey

Maybe you are unclear but you race against riders from other states or
Washington as the case may be all season long. Many of whom have been OBRA
members for years, Obra members being the key what would it be like to not
see faces like Chris and Austin Alling , Tim and Trevor Schauer and many
others at these championships. My advice bring your A game race hard without
worrying about weither the guy next to you came down I_5 twenty minutes from
washington. This is what makes OBRA the great program it is we are a
welcoming orginization that thrives on great competiton even if it comes
from New Zealand or somewhere else.

>From: "Erik Long"
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
>Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:48:15 -0700
>
>
>
>The idea behind a State Championship, Brian, is to get as many of a given
>state's riders (regardless of city residence and hair color)?gathered on
>the same course, on the same day, for the same race.? You want to win that
>race because of the recognition that comes with beating the rest of the
>riders in your state,?in your category in the most fiercely contested
>one-day race?held within?your state.?
>
>This is why it doesn't make sense to have out-of-state riders competing in
>such an event.? The Idea behind such a race is to determine who can win
>amongst Oregon's racers.? If Oregon's ridrers are competing against (or
>being helped by) Washington and California riders, it ceases to be an
>Oregon Championship and becomes just another road race, with a different
>medal.
>
>-Erik
>
>
>
>?
>
>
>
>
>From:??Brian Mack
>To:??obra@list.obra.org
>Subject:??[OBRA Chat] State Championships???
>Date:??Tue, 08 May 2007 13:29:25 -0700
>
>
>
>I'm a little confused -??What makes one race on the calendar special
>enough to be called a championship race???Why should I care more about
>winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
>anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
>other?
>
>Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
>have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
>this state???Why would anyone care who that was???How about a blonde
>hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people
>owning
>an SUV?
>
>Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
>show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
>is out of everybody.??The winner on that particular day, in the weather
>that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
>or have flats, whose tactics happened to work...??who cares?
>
>Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
>restricted.??For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
>win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
>back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
>Washington, or if he has three legs or??drives a Buick or has four
>testicles.
>
>Brian
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing
>list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning
>Windows Live Hotmail.
>

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

gschreckchat@comcast.net

What did you expect when you raised a subject like that?

It is like throwing gasoline on some smoulding embers.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From:

> Why do these subjects get SO blown out of proportion on here? My original
> question was about qualifications and how to keep the championships WITHIN the
> OBRA membership. Some make this sound like we want to exclude our neighbors who
> are supporting OBRA members. (in my opinion doing one race does not make you a
> supporting member)
> I was not in contention for a medal. I just observed a guy from way down in Cal.
> win one and I thought it seemed unfair to all those that race here consistently.
> All championships have some rules regarding participation.
>
> ---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> > If the championship fields were large you might have a point, but some of the
> events that I have done already have small field sizes when you include the out
> of state riders. Taking out the out of state riders would only make the
> situation worse. I have little interest in racing against ten people even if it
> would mean I get a gold medal. In fact it would mean less than getting a high
> placing in a large competitive field.
> >
> > If anyone gets hurt by letting out of state riders in it is me, as I get
> killed by David Zimbleman every year (I have a good selection of silver medals,
> except last year when he took pity on me) but I would not have it any other way.
> Let them all come and just train harder. It is how you race that counts, not
> necessarily the result.
> >
> > Now lets talk about someting important like carbon fiber dimpled racing tires
> with ceramic beads. I hear they save .5 watts and can mean the differnce
> between 20th and first place, and you can lose 2 pounds per week by riding them
> only 20 minutes a day three times per week. Fact or fantasy? You decide.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: hutchsraceteam
> >
> >
> > I think that was well put. And remember there are other Championships for
> riders in other States and Levels. I would like OBRA to up the anti though and
> offer free registration to all OBRA events to the Senior Champions of the Crit
> and RR provided that they wear their Championship jersey in an event that they
> won. This would bring a lot more meaning and value to the winner. Some
> promoters in the USCF do this for the National Champions.
> >
> > I still am for a race based on participation due to politics and any chance of
> any change. As far as administration goes, this is the year 2007. OBRA has come
> up with a program online that can tell me all the races I placed in for the last
> two years. Are you telling me someone could not add a function to this database
> to print out a report by category of the number of events all riders road
> between two dates? The registration desk would have a print out off all the
> riders in a category and would check and high light all riders who qualified.
> Riders that did not qualify will still be allowed to ride but with different
> numbers. Once the race has finished the officials would check the top ten based
> on the numbers or the high lighted list and a new Championship would be
> announced. The hard part in all of this would be the politics in selecting the
> number of races that qualify for the Championship.
> >
> > The No OBRA Membership Registration on the day of the race is probably the
> simplest solution but is not strong enough.
> >
> > AP
> >
> > Erik Long wrote:
> > The idea behind a State Championship, Brian, is to get as many of a given
> state's riders (regardless of city residence and hair color) gathered on the
> same course, on the same day, for the same race. You want to win that race
> because of the recognition that comes with beating the rest of the riders in
> your state, in your category in the most fiercely contested one-day race held
> within your state.
> > This is why it doesn't make sense to have out-of-state riders competing in
> such an event. The Idea behind such a race is to determine who can win amongst
> Oregon's racers. If Oregon's ridrers are competing against (or being helped by)
> Washington and California riders, it ceases to be an Oregon Championship and
> becomes just another road race, with a different medal.
> > -Erik
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Brian Mack
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
> > Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:29:25 -0700
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
> > enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
> > winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
> > anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
> > other?
> >
> > Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
> > have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
> > this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
> > hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
> > an SUV?
> >
> > Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
> > show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
> > is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
> > that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
> > or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?
> >
> > Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
> > restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
> > win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
> > back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
> > Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
> > testicles.
> >
> > Brian
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning Windows
> Live Hotmail. _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't pick lemons.
> > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

gschreckchat@comcast.net

because we can

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From:

> Why do these subjects get SO blown out of proportion on here? My original
> question was about qualifications and how to keep the championships WITHIN the
> OBRA membership. Some make this sound like we want to exclude our neighbors who
> are supporting OBRA members. (in my opinion doing one race does not make you a
> supporting member)
> I was not in contention for a medal. I just observed a guy from way down in Cal.
> win one and I thought it seemed unfair to all those that race here consistently.
> All championships have some rules regarding participation.
>
> ---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> > If the championship fields were large you might have a point, but some of the
> events that I have done already have small field sizes when you include the out
> of state riders. Taking out the out of state riders would only make the
> situation worse. I have little interest in racing against ten people even if it
> would mean I get a gold medal. In fact it would mean less than getting a high
> placing in a large competitive field.
> >
> > If anyone gets hurt by letting out of state riders in it is me, as I get
> killed by David Zimbleman every year (I have a good selection of silver medals,
> except last year when he took pity on me) but I would not have it any other way.
> Let them all come and just train harder. It is how you race that counts, not
> necessarily the result.
> >
> > Now lets talk about someting important like carbon fiber dimpled racing tires
> with ceramic beads. I hear they save .5 watts and can mean the differnce
> between 20th and first place, and you can lose 2 pounds per week by riding them
> only 20 minutes a day three times per week. Fact or fantasy? You decide.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: hutchsraceteam
> >
> >
> > I think that was well put. And remember there are other Championships for
> riders in other States and Levels. I would like OBRA to up the anti though and
> offer free registration to all OBRA events to the Senior Champions of the Crit
> and RR provided that they wear their Championship jersey in an event that they
> won. This would bring a lot more meaning and value to the winner. Some
> promoters in the USCF do this for the National Champions.
> >
> > I still am for a race based on participation due to politics and any chance of
> any change. As far as administration goes, this is the year 2007. OBRA has come
> up with a program online that can tell me all the races I placed in for the last
> two years. Are you telling me someone could not add a function to this database
> to print out a report by category of the number of events all riders road
> between two dates? The registration desk would have a print out off all the
> riders in a category and would check and high light all riders who qualified.
> Riders that did not qualify will still be allowed to ride but with different
> numbers. Once the race has finished the officials would check the top ten based
> on the numbers or the high lighted list and a new Championship would be
> announced. The hard part in all of this would be the politics in selecting the
> number of races that qualify for the Championship.
> >
> > The No OBRA Membership Registration on the day of the race is probably the
> simplest solution but is not strong enough.
> >
> > AP
> >
> > Erik Long wrote:
> > The idea behind a State Championship, Brian, is to get as many of a given
> state's riders (regardless of city residence and hair color) gathered on the
> same course, on the same day, for the same race. You want to win that race
> because of the recognition that comes with beating the rest of the riders in
> your state, in your category in the most fiercely contested one-day race held
> within your state.
> > This is why it doesn't make sense to have out-of-state riders competing in
> such an event. The Idea behind such a race is to determine who can win amongst
> Oregon's racers. If Oregon's ridrers are competing against (or being helped by)
> Washington and California riders, it ceases to be an Oregon Championship and
> becomes just another road race, with a different medal.
> > -Erik
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Brian Mack
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
> > Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:29:25 -0700
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
> > enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
> > winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
> > anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
> > other?
> >
> > Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
> > have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
> > this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
> > hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
> > an SUV?
> >
> > Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
> > show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
> > is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
> > that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
> > or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?
> >
> > Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
> > restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
> > win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
> > back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
> > Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
> > testicles.
> >
> > Brian
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning Windows
> Live Hotmail. _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't pick lemons.
> > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Chris Alling

In my opinion doing one race does make you a supporting member of OBRA. That
person from CA came up here to race his/her bike, he/she bought his
membership, paid his/her entry fee and raced. What more is there to it than
that. Things get blown out of proportion when people make more of it than
just racing your bike. The fact of the matter is that who ever the infamous
out of stater beat that day he or she was not good enough to win that day.
There will be another race next week and another championship next year.

The rules are published for OBRA and ultimately if you would like you can
make a motion to change them at the board meeting at the first of the year.

>From:
>To: OBRA
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
>Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 15:15:37 -0700
>
>Why do these subjects get SO blown out of proportion on here? My original
>question was about qualifications and how to keep the championships WITHIN
>the OBRA membership. Some make this sound like we want to exclude our
>neighbors who are supporting OBRA members. (in my opinion doing one race
>does not make you a supporting member)
>I was not in contention for a medal. I just observed a guy from way down in
>Cal. win one and I thought it seemed unfair to all those that race here
>consistently. All championships have some rules regarding participation.
>
>---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> > If the championship fields were large you might have a point, but some
>of the events that I have done already have small field sizes when you
>include the out of state riders. Taking out the out of state riders would
>only make the situation worse. I have little interest in racing against
>ten people even if it would mean I get a gold medal. In fact it would mean
>less than getting a high placing in a large competitive field.
> >
> > If anyone gets hurt by letting out of state riders in it is me, as I get
>killed by David Zimbleman every year (I have a good selection of silver
>medals, except last year when he took pity on me) but I would not have it
>any other way. Let them all come and just train harder. It is how you
>race that counts, not necessarily the result.
> >
> > Now lets talk about someting important like carbon fiber dimpled racing
>tires with ceramic beads. I hear they save .5 watts and can mean the
>differnce between 20th and first place, and you can lose 2 pounds per week
>by riding them only 20 minutes a day three times per week. Fact or fantasy?
> You decide.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: hutchsraceteam
> >
> >
> > I think that was well put. And remember there are other Championships
>for riders in other States and Levels. I would like OBRA to up the anti
>though and offer free registration to all OBRA events to the Senior
>Champions of the Crit and RR provided that they wear their Championship
>jersey in an event that they won. This would bring a lot more meaning and
>value to the winner. Some promoters in the USCF do this for the National
>Champions.
> >
> > I still am for a race based on participation due to politics and any
>chance of any change. As far as administration goes, this is the year
>2007. OBRA has come up with a program online that can tell me all the races
>I placed in for the last two years. Are you telling me someone could not
>add a function to this database to print out a report by category of the
>number of events all riders road between two dates? The registration desk
>would have a print out off all the riders in a category and would check and
>high light all riders who qualified. Riders that did not qualify will
>still be allowed to ride but with different numbers. Once the race has
>finished the officials would check the top ten based on the numbers or the
>high lighted list and a new Championship would be announced. The hard part
>in all of this would be the politics in selecting the number of races that
>qualify for the Championship.
> >
> > The No OBRA Membership Registration on the day of the race is probably
>the simplest solution but is not strong enough.
> >
> > AP
> >
> > Erik Long wrote:
> > The idea behind a State Championship, Brian, is to get as many of a
>given state's riders (regardless of city residence and hair color) gathered
>on the same course, on the same day, for the same race. You want to win
>that race because of the recognition that comes with beating the rest of
>the riders in your state, in your category in the most fiercely contested
>one-day race held within your state.
> > This is why it doesn't make sense to have out-of-state riders competing
>in such an event. The Idea behind such a race is to determine who can win
>amongst Oregon's racers. If Oregon's ridrers are competing against (or
>being helped by) Washington and California riders, it ceases to be an
>Oregon Championship and becomes just another road race, with a different
>medal.
> > -Erik
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Brian Mack
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
> > Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:29:25 -0700
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
> > enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
> > winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
> > anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
> > other?
> >
> > Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
> > have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
> > this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
> > hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
> > an SUV?
> >
> > Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
> > show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
> > is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
> > that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
> > or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?
> >
> > Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
> > restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
> > win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
> > back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
> > Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
> > testicles.
> >
> > Brian
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning
>Windows Live Hotmail. _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't pick lemons.
> > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

masessa@charter.net

Why do these subjects get SO blown out of proportion on here? My original question was about qualifications and how to keep the championships WITHIN the OBRA membership. Some make this sound like we want to exclude our neighbors who are supporting OBRA members. (in my opinion doing one race does not make you a supporting member)
I was not in contention for a medal. I just observed a guy from way down in Cal. win one and I thought it seemed unfair to all those that race here consistently. All championships have some rules regarding participation.

---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> If the championship fields were large you might have a point, but some of the events that I have done already have small field sizes when you include the out of state riders. Taking out the out of state riders would only make the situation worse. I have little interest in racing against ten people even if it would mean I get a gold medal. In fact it would mean less than getting a high placing in a large competitive field.
>
> If anyone gets hurt by letting out of state riders in it is me, as I get killed by David Zimbleman every year (I have a good selection of silver medals, except last year when he took pity on me) but I would not have it any other way. Let them all come and just train harder. It is how you race that counts, not necessarily the result.
>
> Now lets talk about someting important like carbon fiber dimpled racing tires with ceramic beads. I hear they save .5 watts and can mean the differnce between 20th and first place, and you can lose 2 pounds per week by riding them only 20 minutes a day three times per week. Fact or fantasy? You decide.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: hutchsraceteam
>
>
> I think that was well put. And remember there are other Championships for riders in other States and Levels. I would like OBRA to up the anti though and offer free registration to all OBRA events to the Senior Champions of the Crit and RR provided that they wear their Championship jersey in an event that they won. This would bring a lot more meaning and value to the winner. Some promoters in the USCF do this for the National Champions.
>
> I still am for a race based on participation due to politics and any chance of any change. As far as administration goes, this is the year 2007. OBRA has come up with a program online that can tell me all the races I placed in for the last two years. Are you telling me someone could not add a function to this database to print out a report by category of the number of events all riders road between two dates? The registration desk would have a print out off all the riders in a category and would check and high light all riders who qualified. Riders that did not qualify will still be allowed to ride but with different numbers. Once the race has finished the officials would check the top ten based on the numbers or the high lighted list and a new Championship would be announced. The hard part in all of this would be the politics in selecting the number of races that qualify for the Championship.
>
> The No OBRA Membership Registration on the day of the race is probably the simplest solution but is not strong enough.
>
> AP
>
> Erik Long wrote:
> The idea behind a State Championship, Brian, is to get as many of a given state's riders (regardless of city residence and hair color) gathered on the same course, on the same day, for the same race. You want to win that race because of the recognition that comes with beating the rest of the riders in your state, in your category in the most fiercely contested one-day race held within your state.
> This is why it doesn't make sense to have out-of-state riders competing in such an event. The Idea behind such a race is to determine who can win amongst Oregon's racers. If Oregon's ridrers are competing against (or being helped by) Washington and California riders, it ceases to be an Oregon Championship and becomes just another road race, with a different medal.
> -Erik
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Brian Mack
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
> Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:29:25 -0700
>
>
>
> I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
> enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
> winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
> anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
> other?
>
> Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
> have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
> this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
> hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
> an SUV?
>
> Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
> show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
> is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
> that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
> or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?
>
> Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
> restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
> win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
> back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
> Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
> testicles.
>
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> Don't pick lemons.
> See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

gschreckchat@comcast.net

If the championship fields were large you might have a point, but some of the events that I have done already have small field sizes when you include the out of state riders. Taking out the out of state riders would only make the situation worse. I have little interest in racing against ten people even if it would mean I get a gold medal. In fact it would mean less than getting a high placing in a large competitive field.

If anyone gets hurt by letting out of state riders in it is me, as I get killed by David Zimbleman every year (I have a good selection of silver medals, except last year when he took pity on me) but I would not have it any other way. Let them all come and just train harder. It is how you race that counts, not necessarily the result.

Now lets talk about someting important like carbon fiber dimpled racing tires with ceramic beads. I hear they save .5 watts and can mean the differnce between 20th and first place, and you can lose 2 pounds per week by riding them only 20 minutes a day three times per week. Fact or fantasy? You decide.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: hutchsraceteam

I think that was well put. And remember there are other Championships for riders in other States and Levels. I would like OBRA to up the anti though and offer free registration to all OBRA events to the Senior Champions of the Crit and RR provided that they wear their Championship jersey in an event that they won. This would bring a lot more meaning and value to the winner. Some promoters in the USCF do this for the National Champions.

I still am for a race based on participation due to politics and any chance of any change. As far as administration goes, this is the year 2007. OBRA has come up with a program online that can tell me all the races I placed in for the last two years. Are you telling me someone could not add a function to this database to print out a report by category of the number of events all riders road between two dates? The registration desk would have a print out off all the riders in a category and would check and high light all riders who qualified. Riders that did not qualify will still be allowed to ride but with different numbers. Once the race has finished the officials would check the top ten based on the numbers or the high lighted list and a new Championship would be announced. The hard part in all of this would be the politics in selecting the number of races that qualify for the Championship.

The No OBRA Membership Registration on the day of the race is probably the simplest solution but is not strong enough.

AP

Erik Long wrote:
The idea behind a State Championship, Brian, is to get as many of a given state's riders (regardless of city residence and hair color) gathered on the same course, on the same day, for the same race. You want to win that race because of the recognition that comes with beating the rest of the riders in your state, in your category in the most fiercely contested one-day race held within your state.
This is why it doesn't make sense to have out-of-state riders competing in such an event. The Idea behind such a race is to determine who can win amongst Oregon's racers. If Oregon's ridrers are competing against (or being helped by) Washington and California riders, it ceases to be an Oregon Championship and becomes just another road race, with a different medal.
-Erik

From: Brian Mack
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:29:25 -0700

I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
other?

Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
an SUV?

Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?

Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
testicles.

Brian
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. _______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

hutchsraceteam

I think that was well put. And remember there are other Championships for riders in other States and Levels. I would like OBRA to up the anti though and offer free registration to all OBRA events to the Senior Champions of the Crit and RR provided that they wear their Championship jersey in an event that they won. This would bring a lot more meaning and value to the winner. Some promoters in the USCF do this for the National Champions.

I still am for a race based on participation due to politics and any chance of any change. As far as administration goes, this is the year 2007. OBRA has come up with a program online that can tell me all the races I placed in for the last two years. Are you telling me someone could not add a function to this database to print out a report by category of the number of events all riders road between two dates? The registration desk would have a print out off all the riders in a category and would check and high light all riders who qualified. Riders that did not qualify will still be allowed to ride but with different numbers. Once the race has finished the officials would check the top ten based on the numbers or the high lighted list and a new Championship would be announced. The hard part in all of this would be the politics in selecting the number of races that qualify for the Championship.

The No OBRA Membership Registration on the day of the race is probably the simplest solution but is not strong enough.

AP

Erik Long wrote:
The idea behind a State Championship, Brian, is to get as many of a given state's riders (regardless of city residence and hair color) gathered on the same course, on the same day, for the same race. You want to win that race because of the recognition that comes with beating the rest of the riders in your state, in your category in the most fiercely contested one-day race held within your state.
This is why it doesn't make sense to have out-of-state riders competing in such an event. The Idea behind such a race is to determine who can win amongst Oregon's racers. If Oregon's ridrers are competing against (or being helped by) Washington and California riders, it ceases to be an Oregon Championship and becomes just another road race, with a different medal.
-Erik

---------------------------------

From: Brian Mack
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:29:25 -0700

I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
other?

Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
an SUV?

Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?

Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
testicles.

Brian
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. _______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Chris Alling

I have forgotten what the issue was here. Maybe we should build a fence
around the state to keep the transients out. Oh I am sorry that is a
different arguement.

If you have an issue with the rules and with an out of state OBRA memeber
winning a medal that you feel was yours to win get on your bike and train to
win next year obviously you have discovered you were not good enough to win
this year.

>From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>To: "Erik Long" , obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
>Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 21:11:31 +0000
>
>"it ceases to be an Oregon championship and becomes a different race with a
>different medal"
>
>It works for me.
>--
>
>George Schreck
>gschreckchat@comcast.net
>(503) 502-0425
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: "Erik Long"
>
>The idea behind a State Championship, Brian, is to get as many of a given
>state's riders (regardless of city residence and hair color) gathered on
>the same course, on the same day, for the same race. You want to win that
>race because of the recognition that comes with beating the rest of the
>riders in your state, in your category in the most fiercely contested
>one-day race held within your state.
>This is why it doesn't make sense to have out-of-state riders competing in
>such an event. The Idea behind such a race is to determine who can win
>amongst Oregon's racers. If Oregon's ridrers are competing against (or
>being helped by) Washington and California riders, it ceases to be an
>Oregon Championship and becomes just another road race, with a different
>medal.
>-Erik
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Brian Mack
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
>Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:29:25 -0700
>
>
>
>I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
>enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
>winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
>anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
>other?
>
>Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
>have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
>this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
>hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
>an SUV?
>
>Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
>show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
>is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
>that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
>or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?
>
>Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
>restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
>win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
>back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
>Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
>testicles.
>
>Brian
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning Windows
>Live Hotmail.

>From: "Erik Long"
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
>Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 20:48:29 +0000
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

gschreckchat@comcast.net

"it ceases to be an Oregon championship and becomes a different race with a different medal"

It works for me.
--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Erik Long"

The idea behind a State Championship, Brian, is to get as many of a given state's riders (regardless of city residence and hair color) gathered on the same course, on the same day, for the same race. You want to win that race because of the recognition that comes with beating the rest of the riders in your state, in your category in the most fiercely contested one-day race held within your state.
This is why it doesn't make sense to have out-of-state riders competing in such an event. The Idea behind such a race is to determine who can win amongst Oregon's racers. If Oregon's ridrers are competing against (or being helped by) Washington and California riders, it ceases to be an Oregon Championship and becomes just another road race, with a different medal.
-Erik

From: Brian Mack
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships???
Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:29:25 -0700

I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
other?

Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
an SUV?

Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?

Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
testicles.

Brian
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning Windows Live Hotmail.

Suz Weldon

Excellent points Brian. I am one of those evil "out-of-staters who
bought an OBRA license even though I rarely race in Oregon" people.
Why? I dunno, Mike and Candi do a good job with OBRA, there are some
good races I MIGHT come down for (besides Hood and Cascade, which
don't require an OBRA license) and for 10 bucks, it's a pretty good
deal. I don't give a rat's ass about coming to Oregon just to try and
win a gold-colored piece of metal on a ribbon, (and I doubt the person
in question did either) but if I lived closer, and it was the only
good race happening that weekend, I might do it. But someone else can
have the gold-colored piece of metal, and perhaps there should be cash
or merch. for out-of-staters! :-)

-suz

Quoting Brian Mack :

>
>
>
> I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
> enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
> winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
> anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
> other?
>
> Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
> have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
> this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
> hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
> an SUV?
>
> Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
> show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
> is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
> that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
> or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?
>
> Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
> restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
> win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
> back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
> Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
> testicles.
>
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Erik Long

Brian Mack

word - but isn't that just the BAR?

Rick Johnson wrote:
> The whole problem is created by having one event determine the
> championship. Think about it - if the championship was determined by a
> series then to win you'd have to be at all those races. People that
> came for only one (or a few) events would have no chance for the
> championship no matter how well they did.
> Then truly the best rider contesting the series would win.
>
> Rick
>
>
> Brian Mack wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
>> enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more
>> about winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why
>> would anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more
>> than any other?
>> Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that
>> we have to have a special race just to determine who the best person
>> is in this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a
>> blonde hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for
>> people owning an SUV?
>>
>> Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state
>> should show up at some random event so that we can determine who the
>> best rider is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day,
>> in the weather that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people
>> who didn't crash or have flats, whose tactics happened to work...
>> who cares?
>>
>> Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
>> restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
>> win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
>> back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
>> Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
>> testicles.
>>
>> Brian
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

masessa@charter.net

Yeah, I guess we should cancel the Super Bowl, World Series, Olympics, Nationals, NBA Championships, Cycling World Championships. Nobody want's to be the best. Forget those goals and working to be the best. All those people in history just had it wrong.

I do like how you started your comments though... "I'm a little confused"

---- Brian Mack wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
> enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
> winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
> anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
> other?
>
> Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
> have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
> this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
> hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
> an SUV?
>
> Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
> show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
> is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
> that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
> or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?
>
> Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
> restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
> win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
> back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
> Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
> testicles.
>
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rick Johnson

The whole problem is created by having one event determine the
championship. Think about it - if the championship was determined by a
series then to win you'd have to be at all those races. People that came
for only one (or a few) events would have no chance for the championship
no matter how well they did.
Then truly the best rider contesting the series would win.

Rick

Brian Mack wrote:

>
>I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
>enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
>winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
>anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
>other?
>
>Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
>have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
>this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
>hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
>an SUV?
>
>Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
>show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
>is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
>that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
>or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?
>
>Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
>restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
>win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
>back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
>Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
>testicles.
>
>Brian
>_______________________________________________
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>obra@list.obra.org
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>
>
>
>

Brian Mack

I'm a little confused - What makes one race on the calendar special
enough to be called a championship race? Why should I care more about
winning it vs. any of the other road races out there, and why would
anyone care if an out-of-stater beat them at that race more than any
other?

Is the idea that OBRA is so infested with racers from Ca and Wa that we
have to have a special race just to determine who the best person is in
this state? Why would anyone care who that was? How about a blonde
hair championships, or Portland championship, or one for people owning
an SUV?

Or is it more arbitrary, just saying that everyone in the state should
show up at some random event so that we can determine who the best rider
is out of everybody. The winner on that particular day, in the weather
that it had, on that kind of course, out of the people who didn't crash
or have flats, whose tactics happened to work... who cares?

Whatever it is that makes the race meaningful is how it should be
restricted. For my part, if I show up, it'll only be for a chance to
win a free shirt with a nice picture on the front and pockets in the
back, and I probably won't care too much if I get beat by a guy from
Washington, or if he has three legs or drives a Buick or has four
testicles.

Brian